Thinkers January 14 2014: Post-human civilization.

Extropia DaSilva: Welcome to Thinkers!
[2014/01/14 15:31]  ArtCrash Exonar: Let’s begin at the middle
[2014/01/14 15:31]  Extropia DaSilva: Today the topic is………
[2014/01/14 15:31]  Extropia DaSilva: What would a post-human civilization look like?
[2014/01/14 15:31]  Ari (arisia.vita): I like the term Dreamwalker
[2014/01/14 15:32]  Extropia DaSilva: No jobs for starters!
[2014/01/14 15:32]  Roxie Marten: put my thinkers tag on, havn’t wore it in ages
[2014/01/14 15:32]  ArtCrash Exonar: Assuming autonomous beings?
[2014/01/14 15:32]  Extropia DaSilva: Of course.
[2014/01/14 15:32]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): i wonder what a civilisation witout civil look like
[2014/01/14 15:32]  Zobeid Zuma: If we knew what it would look like, wouldn’t we already have it?
[2014/01/14 15:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eek what kind of question might that be? We’d have to be post-human to answer!
[2014/01/14 15:32]  Second Life: Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone) is online.
[2014/01/14 15:32]  ArtCrash Exonar: Death would be much less present.
[2014/01/14 15:33]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): does that question mean, witout any human at all?
[2014/01/14 15:33]  ArtCrash Exonar: Everyone would have more time to live their lives.
[2014/01/14 15:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s like questioning, “What would life after death look like?” We’d have to be there to experience it.
[2014/01/14 15:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If we can imagine what a post.human civilisation looks like, then it won’t be post-human. It will only be the projection of our very human wishes and desires.
[2014/01/14 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: I think we should assume there are humans. It is just a civilisation more advanced than ours. A next-gen civilization if you will.
[2014/01/14 15:34]  ArtCrash Exonar: You could put off till tomorrow most everything…. heh.
[2014/01/14 15:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, a *next-gen* civilisation…
[2014/01/14 15:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s another story 🙂
[2014/01/14 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: Yeah.
[2014/01/14 15:34]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): near chernobyl its like post -human and the nature has grow a lot and the diversity per suqare feeet, is augmented
[2014/01/14 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: well that is the one I want to discuss.
[2014/01/14 15:35]  Zobeid Zuma: By pure chance, I happened to stumble across “In the Year 2889” by Jules Verne today. That was an… amusing read.
[2014/01/14 15:35]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think extending one’s life would enable multiple careers over its span.
[2014/01/14 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So long as there are humans in it, it will be still be moved by fame, reputation, power/money/greed, etc
[2014/01/14 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So with the same motivations, it will look pretty much the same.
[2014/01/14 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: By post-human I mean people have transcended the shackles of the human condition, not that humans have been wiped out.
[2014/01/14 15:35]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): or like in mad max, all road side killers
[2014/01/14 15:35]  ArtCrash Exonar: I’m guessing that given enough time everyone would be able to meet the famous and therefore be demystified about them.
[2014/01/14 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, anyone in the Renaissance would definitely understand the basic motivations of *our* current civilisation.
[2014/01/14 15:36]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): aw thanks for clarifying Extropia
[2014/01/14 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: There would be the “special famous”; the ones that you cannot meet, Art 🙂
[2014/01/14 15:36]  Zobeid Zuma: I had trouble deciding whether Verne was describing a utopia or a dystopia.
[2014/01/14 15:36]  Extropia DaSilva: NP:)
[2014/01/14 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: I haven’t read it, so I have no idea 🙂
[2014/01/14 15:36]  Extropia DaSilva: why did you have such trouble, Zo?
[2014/01/14 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: One’s utopia is the next person’s dystopia. So, all hail Extropia!
[2014/01/14 15:37]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): mmm,i wonder if transcandance can ever be speread out or only belong to an elite
[2014/01/14 15:37]  Zobeid Zuma: A lot of what he described has already happened… although not exactly the *way* he envisioned….
[2014/01/14 15:37]  ArtCrash Exonar: There would probably be more sex in general.
[2014/01/14 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Art
[2014/01/14 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: even more? wow.
[2014/01/14 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: I guess it depends on how widely the means of transcendence can spread, Alaya.
[2014/01/14 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But Extie was positing, “beyond the shackles of human condition”
[2014/01/14 15:37]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): yes i guess so
[2014/01/14 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I’m afraid it would be a society without sex
[2014/01/14 15:37]  Zobeid Zuma: But the attitude that we’re going to completely conquer nature, really seems like madness from today’s viewpoint.
[2014/01/14 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we shift atoms today
[2014/01/14 15:38]  Zobeid Zuma: “Let’s melt the ice caps! What a capital idea!”
[2014/01/14 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And we have done so since the 1980s
[2014/01/14 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: Why? Sex is good. We keep the good aspects of being human and get rid of the bad.
[2014/01/14 15:38]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): that is an interesting event that ocured Zobeid
[2014/01/14 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: sex also causes stress and anxiety 😉 so the idea that sex is “always good” is just a misconception 🙂
[2014/01/14 15:38]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): but why?
[2014/01/14 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s good to most 🙂
[2014/01/14 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: Is for me:)
[2014/01/14 15:39]  Zobeid Zuma: “There may be a civilization hiding on the far side of the moon. Well, clearly we must turn the moon around so we can contact them!”
[2014/01/14 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Still, in that case, you’re saying that post-humans will still be shackled by SOME aspects of the human condition
[2014/01/14 15:39]  Roxie Marten: maybe they don’t want to know us
[2014/01/14 15:39]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think there would be more Hedonism in general. Health and extra time would lead to that.
[2014/01/14 15:39]  Zobeid Zuma: “We must create cloud cover over the city at all times, so we can project advertisements onto them!”
[2014/01/14 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: Iron Sky? 🙂
[2014/01/14 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh that’s a capital idea!
[2014/01/14 15:39]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): i better stick to communication on earth, , as far as i am concern , the moon distance is too far for me
[2014/01/14 15:40]  Extropia DaSilva: Yeah. We just have to agree on what is bad, what is good, and build a society which rids us of the former and provides universal access to the latter.
[2014/01/14 15:40]  Zobeid Zuma: I’m not sure if it was intended as satire or not.
[2014/01/14 15:40]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): trancandance oddosnt rime with money
[2014/01/14 15:40]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): oddly*
[2014/01/14 15:40]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): but dosnt exclude it
[2014/01/14 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, Extie, in your post-human society, what aspects of human shackes and conditions will you wish to keep, and why? 🙂 Also, if you still keep them, why are you positing it’s POST-humanity, and not merely Humanity+? 🙂
[2014/01/14 15:40]  ArtCrash Exonar: Can you imagine a snooty golf club where the members clique lasted for hundreds of years? Too horrible to contemplate.
[2014/01/14 15:40]  Roxie Marten: what would be the reason that the world is “post human” I am going to presume we finnaly figured out a way to off selfs by screwing the environment
[2014/01/14 15:40]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): what if money is an ingredient of transcandance instead
[2014/01/14 15:41]  Zobeid Zuma: I don’t play golf. Or plan to.
[2014/01/14 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Money is just a convenient way of shopping.
[2014/01/14 15:41]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): what if it has always been
[2014/01/14 15:41]  Extropia DaSilva: You should, Good game, golf.
[2014/01/14 15:41]  Roxie Marten: golf is just an obsession by men to put things in holes
[2014/01/14 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahahahaha Roxie!
[2014/01/14 15:41]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): the transcandant money, to enter the spleen
[2014/01/14 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: gosh, I would have NEVER thought of THAT
[2014/01/14 15:41]  ArtCrash Exonar: Roxie, I’m assuming we have gotten complete control of the genetic code and no longer rely only on human genes.
[2014/01/14 15:41]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): the new line of viability
[2014/01/14 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me is too naive
[2014/01/14 15:41]  Zobeid Zuma: My dad used to ridicule golfers. So… I couldn’t pick up the game without thinking of him. 😦
[2014/01/14 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: we need a bit more, since it’s now a well-established fact that “genes are not everything” 🙂
[2014/01/14 15:42]  Extropia DaSilva: What do I want to keep? Sex. Childraising. Work (but not jobs!)..probably more if I thought hard enough.
[2014/01/14 15:42]  Roxie Marten: “Golf is a good walk, spoiled” Mark Twain
[2014/01/14 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pfft. That’s too “current human” for my tastes, Extie
[2014/01/14 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you keep sex, you will keep power struggles
[2014/01/14 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And desire, competition, jealousy
[2014/01/14 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: attachment, anger
[2014/01/14 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nah.
[2014/01/14 15:42]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): reproduction,,, is only an artefact
[2014/01/14 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Looks too much to what we have today!
[2014/01/14 15:43]  ArtCrash Exonar: Well I can’t imagine any future human successors giving up the pleasures of the flesh.
[2014/01/14 15:43]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): one use it when needed only
[2014/01/14 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: Gosh in your ideal world there is no this, no that..no NOTHING.
[2014/01/14 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Definitely not in MY world, no!
[2014/01/14 15:43]  Roxie Marten: Post human utopia. The roaches inherited the earth, they don’t want it
[2014/01/14 15:43]  ArtCrash Exonar: The roaches would then play roach golf.
[2014/01/14 15:43]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): the bad guy will henerit the world,
[2014/01/14 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: … with human heads…
[2014/01/14 15:43]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): anyone tha tisnt identify as part of the crew
[2014/01/14 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: Roach motel. They check in…they do not check out.
[2014/01/14 15:44]  Zobeid Zuma: Ultimately, I assume we’re going interstellar. So every kind of society will probably be tried somewhere in our galaxy. 🙂
[2014/01/14 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh like in Peter Hamilton’s Nights’s Dawn Trilogy?
[2014/01/14 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, my suggestion is a society where we can have sex without the need for jealousy, power struggles, attachment, etc. But that requires a LOT of mind-changing!
[2014/01/14 15:44]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): i assume they are immunised, mor ethan human against h1n1
[2014/01/14 15:45]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): but do they survive, minus 50
[2014/01/14 15:45]  ArtCrash Exonar: I’m thinking of the changes caused by massively increased life spans. I think changing careers often would be the norm.
[2014/01/14 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What, isn’t it the norm TODAY?*
[2014/01/14 15:45]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): changing careeers is part of it indeed
[2014/01/14 15:45]  Extropia DaSilva: If you could easily obtain a sexbot in the image of Scarlett Johansen or Brad Pitt or (insert your fantasy here) would that make sexual jealousy less of a problem?
[2014/01/14 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes it would, Extie
[2014/01/14 15:45]  ArtCrash Exonar: Because we can’t afford to go back to college for 12 years at age 62
[2014/01/14 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because one thing is a bot
[2014/01/14 15:45]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): maybe the navy and air force , will be less represented
[2014/01/14 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: OK well I guess post-human civilisation provides that.
[2014/01/14 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The other is having someone in flesh & blood that does, indeed, look like Scarlett, Brad, etc
[2014/01/14 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll give you an example!
[2014/01/14 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: SL!
[2014/01/14 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can look exactly like we want!
[2014/01/14 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is STILL jealousy, power struggles etc around sex partners.
[2014/01/14 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why?
[2014/01/14 15:46]  Zobeid Zuma: I can have my Zo-clone?
[2014/01/14 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes! SL is our experimental post-human society.
[2014/01/14 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because we can switch bodies but we aren’t doing anything about our minds.
[2014/01/14 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, yuck,Extie
[2014/01/14 15:47]  ArtCrash Exonar: If degenerative diseases are eliminated, then we will only die of accidents. So that might lead to too highly cautious people.
[2014/01/14 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: This experimental post-human society looks exactly the same as our regular society.
[2014/01/14 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So why should be believe that a “next-gen” society will be different?
[2014/01/14 15:47]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): ok if there is sex, witout kids, because the world isnt build for kids to go around, than, its will go extincts
[2014/01/14 15:47]  Second Life: Naring’Nari (joey.aboma) is offline.
[2014/01/14 15:47]  Extropia DaSilva: Zo. How about, whatever we can dream of, and is physically possible, post-human civilisation makes reality. So yes you can clone yourself.
[2014/01/14 15:48]  Zobeid Zuma: If we’re talking really post-human, then we can be duplicated, backed up, etc. Even accidental death would be mostly avoided, I should think.
[2014/01/14 15:48]  Zobeid Zuma: I think it would be great to have about… three of me.
[2014/01/14 15:48]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): “society” undergoes evolution. Of course a Post-society will at first apperar to me all-to-similar
[2014/01/14 15:48]  ArtCrash Exonar: The future society will be presumed to have solved the problems of overpopulation and ecological destruction. Otherwise, there could be no post humans.
[2014/01/14 15:48]  Zobeid Zuma: Three is a magic number!
[2014/01/14 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: I would think so, Art…
[2014/01/14 15:49]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): there will be only one seasons, winsprifallsummer
[2014/01/14 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: So we should expect post-human civilisation to be built on sustainable energy supplies.
[2014/01/14 15:49]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): one long kinds of wwet frekinslish storm kind of weather
[2014/01/14 15:49]  Zobeid Zuma: There would need to be some way to keep all the clones synchronized, lest they become individuals and go their own ways.
[2014/01/14 15:49]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think that seasonal diversity would be appreciated. Since one wouldn’t have to live anywhere they didn’t want to.
[2014/01/14 15:50]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): /me shoveling away the thought of 3 Zos “the concept of Childhood of course hints onto a post-mortem world”
[2014/01/14 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: One big brain you all share, Zo?
[2014/01/14 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yuck.
[2014/01/14 15:50]  Zobeid Zuma: Probably not…
[2014/01/14 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: *kicks gwyn*
[2014/01/14 15:50]  ArtCrash Exonar: When one lives a thousand years, one must need a lot of things to do and places to see.
[2014/01/14 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like a post-mortem world
[2014/01/14 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: what is that?
[2014/01/14 15:50]  Zobeid Zuma: Just a way to keep them all loosely on the same page, so to speak.
[2014/01/14 15:50]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): maybe people will be mor e nomade than before
[2014/01/14 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Instead of living just a few years, and spending the rest of eternity dead, you just enjoy that eternity being dead 🙂
[2014/01/14 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: All one needs is to train awareness while one’s dead.
[2014/01/14 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Easy-peasy.
[2014/01/14 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2014/01/14 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: I think we can safely say our world holds more than enough wonder to keep us amused for a mere millenia, Art. We just need to open up access to it.
[2014/01/14 15:52]  ArtCrash Exonar: Imagine all people being as sexually ‘interested’ as your average 17-24 year old. That is why there would be more sex…. haha
[2014/01/14 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, jokes besides, my whole issue about the “post-human society” is that it’s not “post” anything. It’s just humans with superpowers, but still motivated by the same things.
[2014/01/14 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: The dead do not enjoy. Enjoyment is an experience and death is the end of experience.
[2014/01/14 15:52]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): another difficult thought would be that beeing dead just means beeing dead. extinct. expired. up to recycling.
[2014/01/14 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: You can only say that if you were dead once, Extie 🙂
[2014/01/14 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: That and some knowledge of neuroscience.
[2014/01/14 15:52]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): apparently, post, , human, define, transcending dual mode
[2014/01/14 15:53]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): 16-49 year old. to be preciese
[2014/01/14 15:53]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): meaning, not this and that , 2 sided visions,
[2014/01/14 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Maybe, luisa. Some funny British author liked to think that dead people are having so much fun that they never bother to get back to talk to us, it would be soooo broing hehe
[2014/01/14 15:53]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): but multiple degree perspective
[2014/01/14 15:53]  Zobeid Zuma: Well… Our current AI efforts don’t seem to lead in the direction of human-like minds. They may lead to something very different and alien… But who knows what they’ll want?
[2014/01/14 15:53]  ArtCrash Exonar: I’m assuming post human to mean having gone beyond the restraints imposed by natural reproduction and genetics in some way.
[2014/01/14 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alaya: I would say that “post-human” would be “beyond human motivations”, yec
[2014/01/14 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *yes
[2014/01/14 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But not the restraints imposed by our own minds, Art?
[2014/01/14 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: Some say it is not a good idea to embue AI with ‘wants’ and ‘needs’ beyond a desire to serve.
[2014/01/14 15:54]  ArtCrash Exonar: I don’t assume post human to mean robotic.
[2014/01/14 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neither do I.
[2014/01/14 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I assume, as said, “beyond human motivations”
[2014/01/14 15:54]  Zobeid Zuma: Yeah, but somebody somewhere will do it, Extie. People are like that. :/
[2014/01/14 15:54]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): the world beyong, , always refere to , over,, things ar e over.. but maybe the with or witouth option, would be less of of a perspective
[2014/01/14 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: It certainly does not mean current conceptions of robots, Clunky machines.
[2014/01/14 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Beyond human tendencies, beyond all that
[2014/01/14 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: ANything less than that is merely “humans with superpowers”
[2014/01/14 15:55]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): we will have old money, museum
[2014/01/14 15:55]  Extropia DaSilva: I hope they do it, Zo. I do not want to stay as an avatar. I want to be a sentient physical being. Robotics is the way to achieve that.
[2014/01/14 15:55]  ArtCrash Exonar: When you look at your own motivations, most of them come down to your bodies chemical reward systems in some way.
[2014/01/14 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which is how WE look like to, say, renaissance
[2014/01/14 15:55]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): we we imagine how that the money war wasnt a real war
[2014/01/14 15:55]  Extropia DaSilva: Our bodies shape a whole lot of thinking, Art.
[2014/01/14 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: the mere fact that I can *observe* that means that I can decide NOT to be driven by that.
[2014/01/14 15:55]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): but people were terrified, of the drop off
[2014/01/14 15:56]  Zobeid Zuma: The way I see it, Gwyn… We have to start with humanity as we know it and extrapolate from there, with “super powers”. It may be an inadequate analysis, but it’s what we’ve got to work with.
[2014/01/14 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I couldn’ notice what you just said, I would have no way of having a *choice* to follow my bodily chemicals 🙂
[2014/01/14 15:56]  Zobeid Zuma: Just like Jules Verne…. As weird as his story seems, much of it was also prophetic.
[2014/01/14 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can do so much more, Zo
[2014/01/14 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Humans with superpowers is definitely nice,
[2014/01/14 15:56]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): considering the new opeitons,
[2014/01/14 15:56]  Zobeid Zuma: What else can we do??
[2014/01/14 15:56]  ArtCrash Exonar: Think of what you want and why. What is the motivation… or reward of any human desire?
[2014/01/14 15:56]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): options*
[2014/01/14 15:56]  Extropia DaSilva: what new options?
[2014/01/14 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: but humans not motivated by ‘chemical things’ as Art put it is so much more interesting
[2014/01/14 15:57]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): of a dual mode transcenting as, “with or without perspective”
[2014/01/14 15:57]  ArtCrash Exonar: I’m just asking what constitutes a motivation?
[2014/01/14 15:57]  Extropia DaSilva: not sure I follow.
[2014/01/14 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: Habit.
[2014/01/14 15:57]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): that would abolish the drop off fearfullness
[2014/01/14 15:57]  Second Life: Deebs (deebrane.string) is offline.
[2014/01/14 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Fear is a good example! It’s a physical sensation
[2014/01/14 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Adrenaline rush and all that
[2014/01/14 15:58]  Extropia DaSilva: I think whatever aids self-actualization is motivation.
[2014/01/14 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we have tehg ability to face our fears and do a non-pre-programmed reaction to fear, if we sih
[2014/01/14 15:58]  ArtCrash Exonar: Another thing to consider is the old yin/yang of it all. One can’t define pleasure without understanding non pleasure etc. etc. etc.
[2014/01/14 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *wish
[2014/01/14 15:58]  Extropia DaSilva: we all want to become best at what we are gifted at. For me that is writing, for Art that is..art.
[2014/01/14 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: For Ari, that is being nice:)
[2014/01/14 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2014/01/14 15:59]  Ari (arisia.vita): ty
[2014/01/14 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, he’s an expert being nice!
[2014/01/14 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s an art form too!
[2014/01/14 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: *Gives Ari’s hand a little squeeze* Always.
[2014/01/14 15:59]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): so they would be, that the nobel price might be atrubuted to those who are showing the way to change our sturcture of making money
[2014/01/14 15:59]  Second Life: Deebs (deebrane.string) is online.
[2014/01/14 16:00]  Extropia DaSilva: so are you positing a radical change in the nature of money as one of the things to expect?
[2014/01/14 16:01]  ArtCrash Exonar: Visual art is engaging with the complexity and/or uniqueness of the world. Seeing things in a new way. I would classify it as a form of learning
[2014/01/14 16:01]  Extropia DaSilva: makes sense.
[2014/01/14 16:01]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh! What will learning be like?
[2014/01/14 16:01]  Extropia DaSilva: Instant downloading of knowledge and skills, as seen in The Matrix?
[2014/01/14 16:02]  Zobeid Zuma: We have that. It’s Wikipedia. 🙂
[2014/01/14 16:02]  Extropia DaSilva: If we are all robots by then, why not?
[2014/01/14 16:02]  Extropia DaSilva: Parroting information is not the same as understanding it, Zo.
[2014/01/14 16:03]  Extropia DaSilva: If I ask somebody something and they cut and paste from Wikipedia, that tells me little of what THEY know about the subject.
[2014/01/14 16:03]  Zobeid Zuma: Well, it’s a start… And it has already changed education.
[2014/01/14 16:03]  Extropia DaSilva: If you cannot explain in your own words, you do not understand.
[2014/01/14 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If people’s minds won’t change, there will still be money. Even if the things it buys are quite different.
[2014/01/14 16:03]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): aw we would be celebrationg the glorious day of the 3d, world videos, as the roots of what we didnt considered as a whole new way of considere literatures as part of the space and physics related mean.
[2014/01/14 16:03]  Zobeid Zuma: It’s all about the big picture, knowing what to type into the search field!
[2014/01/14 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2014/01/14 16:04]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): roles and rules.. are were, there, to b e chalenged
[2014/01/14 16:04]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think we have talked about this subject before, that what constitues a self is memory of that self having experiences that are separate from the experiences which are had by others.
[2014/01/14 16:04]  Extropia DaSilva: I sometimes wonder if we have yet to be totally familiar with the fact that so much information is available at a mere search query.
[2014/01/14 16:04]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): e-challenged
[2014/01/14 16:04]  Second Life: Sylfie Del Vanima (sylfie.minogue) is online.
[2014/01/14 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Technology is undistinguishable from magic for the e-challenged.
[2014/01/14 16:05]  Extropia DaSilva: Like, people always ask me for links to this, or to explain that, and it can all be found using Google, so why ask ME?
[2014/01/14 16:05]  Zobeid Zuma: memories, habits, attitudes and opinions…
[2014/01/14 16:05]  ArtCrash Exonar: I don’t think we consider wikipedia to be part of ourselves, but we do consider our interaction with information on wikipedia as part of ourselves.
[2014/01/14 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No wonder witches are more popular these days
[2014/01/14 16:05]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): why would it look magic?
[2014/01/14 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because you don’t ask how it works.
[2014/01/14 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: You don’t need to.
[2014/01/14 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It just works.
[2014/01/14 16:05]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): its a diferent type of story telling
[2014/01/14 16:06]  Ari (arisia.vita): Because you are better looking than Google Exti 🙂
[2014/01/14 16:06]  Zobeid Zuma: I remember once in an online discussion I quoted from one of my older books… And the guy was astonished to realize that, yes, there’s still info that’s not available online.
[2014/01/14 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I think it’s because you give better answers, Extie. Data is not the same as information.
[2014/01/14 16:06]  Extropia DaSilva: If you saw somebody make a stone levitate, some might call that magic. But it might actually be some anti-gravity tech like a tractor beam you are using:)
[2014/01/14 16:06]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): but imply carrying a new emotional regiustor
[2014/01/14 16:06]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): register
[2014/01/14 16:07]  ArtCrash Exonar: So….. I’m thinking that the biggest difference with post human civilization would be how individuals dealt with much longer life spans.
[2014/01/14 16:07]  Zobeid Zuma: The dead tree version was the magic. 🙂
[2014/01/14 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Extie 🙂 If you see two people having a conversation using a mystical device, you might assume it’s telepathy, but it’s just a mobile phone…
[2014/01/14 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: Science can read minds now. Crudely, but they are getting better. That is another example of once-magic become technological reality. ESP, telekenisis, remote-viewing, resurrection of the dead, you name it..
[2014/01/14 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: true. We still have a lot of information that is NOT searchable.
[2014/01/14 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s true, Extie1
[2014/01/14 16:08]  Second Life: Deebs (deebrane.string) is offline.
[2014/01/14 16:08]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): in which it would take two people with some genes , to transmit the new emotional structures
[2014/01/14 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: indeed, and pretty much all the rest would be exactly the same as nowadays.
[2014/01/14 16:08]  Zobeid Zuma: I’m all in favor of longer life spans. (My clones will be too!)
[2014/01/14 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: Even the axiom that extinction is forever is not true anymore. Biotech has brought extinct animals back to life. More magic, now real.
[2014/01/14 16:09]  ArtCrash Exonar: nope, just a gene splicer and a virus to carry it into you.
[2014/01/14 16:09]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): lol
[2014/01/14 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yay! I want a pet Dodo!
[2014/01/14 16:09]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): with more crispy and spicey new emotional range of expressing
[2014/01/14 16:09]  ArtCrash Exonar: Bring back the carrier pidgeon!
[2014/01/14 16:09]  Extropia DaSilva: Could be tricky, We need the genome.
[2014/01/14 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dang.
[2014/01/14 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What about a pet dinosaur? 🙂
[2014/01/14 16:10]  Extropia DaSilva: I think that is on the cards, Art. Well, the passenger pigeon.
[2014/01/14 16:10]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): maybe the trigering os natural genes,, stimulation will b e found than
[2014/01/14 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What do you mean, “Jurassic Park was just a movie”?!?!
[2014/01/14 16:10]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think they have enough DNA to clone a wooly mammoth now because they found them frozen in glaciers.
[2014/01/14 16:10]  Extropia DaSilva: You can have one already, Gwyn. Birds are a species of dinosaur:)
[2014/01/14 16:10]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): i hopw we dont chang e into disonausorus, meanwhile.. by accident
[2014/01/14 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: True true. When we eat chicken, we’re driving more dinosaurs to extinction.
[2014/01/14 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mammals FTW!
[2014/01/14 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: I do not think it could happen by accident, Alaya.
[2014/01/14 16:11]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): as a negative side, cancers, and mutations, accidents could be more frequents
[2014/01/14 16:11]  Zobeid Zuma: Long life and abundance also implies a great decline in reproduction… Has anyone thought about that?
[2014/01/14 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: Max More did, Zo.
[2014/01/14 16:11]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): not really by accident, indeed, but error , .. throught manipulation
[2014/01/14 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hardly possible, Alaya. If we exchange genes with a dinosaur for, say, getting dinosaur eyes or ears… we will get human eyes and ears instead. Genetics don’t work as bad SF movies wish us to believe it works 🙂
[2014/01/14 16:11]  Zobeid Zuma: I meant anyone here. 🙂
[2014/01/14 16:11]  Zobeid Zuma: Besides me, even…
[2014/01/14 16:12]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): lol
[2014/01/14 16:12]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): as bad?
[2014/01/14 16:12]  Extropia DaSilva: Not so far. But it makes historical sense.
[2014/01/14 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: You can’t “manipulate” the human genome to turn us into dinosaurs.
[2014/01/14 16:12]  Extropia DaSilva: why not?
[2014/01/14 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: We might get tails, sure, but they would be primate tails (and skinny)
[2014/01/14 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
[2014/01/14 16:12]  ArtCrash Exonar: Is the smartest birt a Crow, an owl or a parrot?
[2014/01/14 16:12]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): well, just to look like, not to really be mixed genes, with them
[2014/01/14 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because it’s not only genetics that determine our bodies, Extie 🙂
[2014/01/14 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Most of it comes from embyology
[2014/01/14 16:12]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh.
[2014/01/14 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: A lot comes from other places where information is stored outside DNA
[2014/01/14 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Welcome to the 21st century — where we found out that DNA just plays a minor role in hereditarity
[2014/01/14 16:13]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): this why i brought the idea of a trigguering , rather than, a manipulation, also.. to avoid eror
[2014/01/14 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It won’t work,
[2014/01/14 16:13]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): lol
[2014/01/14 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: To get us dinosaur parts, we’d need to be born in a dinosaur egg,
[2014/01/14 16:13]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): mm, mmm trying to keep the idea of a probability
[2014/01/14 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and we’re not compatible with that.
[2014/01/14 16:14]  Extropia DaSilva: Well I do not want to be a dinosaur anyway:)
[2014/01/14 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, no, sorry. The best we can do is to regain some characteristics from our closest ancestors in the tree
[2014/01/14 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, sure, we could get tails
[2014/01/14 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And more body hair (yuck)
[2014/01/14 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And smaller brains
[2014/01/14 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Much more than that is sadly imposisble,
[2014/01/14 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: YOu are not selling this to me, Gwyn.
[2014/01/14 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, to Alaya 🙂
[2014/01/14 16:15]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): why would we considere extra terrestians.. a s always human and also horribla asa dinosorus , unfinished , unevoluated, or anything like a foetuses, and with an horrible mentality
[2014/01/14 16:15]  Zobeid Zuma: We do have a lot of DNA from other creatures that we can use. You don’t have to stick with just what’s lurking in the human genome.
[2014/01/14 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry Zo, it doesn’t work like that!
[2014/01/14 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you cut and paste the DNA for a dinosaur eye,
[2014/01/14 16:15]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): if it coudnt be possible that that concention of a beeing, could be,,, near human or post humans, if they are our future
[2014/01/14 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and put it into human DNA,
[2014/01/14 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: the result is a human eye.
[2014/01/14 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not a dinosaur eye!
[2014/01/14 16:16]  Zobeid Zuma: Doesn’t make sense.
[2014/01/14 16:16]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): conception*
[2014/01/14 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, it does, and it has been quite well tested
[2014/01/14 16:16]  Extropia DaSilva: That is true if you use hox-genes, which only instruct where to grow an eye.
[2014/01/14 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: back in the 1990s lol
[2014/01/14 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the rest would be garbage, Extie
[2014/01/14 16:16]  ArtCrash Exonar: Random factoid: Eyes evolve separately in many different phylums.
[2014/01/14 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: i.e. genes that we cannot do anything with
[2014/01/14 16:17]  ArtCrash Exonar: evolved
[2014/01/14 16:17]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes Art, evolution is really keen on designing eyes.
[2014/01/14 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, so it would be pointless to get DNA from an eye from a different trree branch,
[2014/01/14 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: it would be just junk DNA for us
[2014/01/14 16:17]  Zobeid Zuma: I don’t believe it.
[2014/01/14 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol it’s not a question of belief, fortunately 🙂
[2014/01/14 16:17]  Zobeid Zuma: At least not if it was a line close to us… like cats, for example.
[2014/01/14 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just something that you can put to test in a lab 🙂
[2014/01/14 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[2014/01/14 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would work yes
[2014/01/14 16:18]  Zobeid Zuma: We don’t really have the technology to test something like that yet.
[2014/01/14 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: if you’d wish for a characteristic that a common ancestor of both cats and humans might have,
[2014/01/14 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: say, uh, fur
[2014/01/14 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’d be able to get that, yes
[2014/01/14 16:18]  ArtCrash Exonar: The current theory is that the great expansion of animal diversity that happened about 540 million years ago happened because of the first development of the eye….
[2014/01/14 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Zo, so far all we can do is to cut & paste eye DNA from some species to others and test the results 🙂
[2014/01/14 16:18]  Extropia DaSilva: But why could you not take a human ovum, remove the genome, put in dino genome and get a brachiosaur?
[2014/01/14 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It works up to mammals, though
[2014/01/14 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, that would PROBABLY work but it would be EXTREMELY hard to do.
[2014/01/14 16:19]  Zobeid Zuma: You would have to identify all the DNA related to the eye, and I don’t even think we’re that far along yet.
[2014/01/14 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes for simple species
[2014/01/14 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not for complex ones.
[2014/01/14 16:19]  Zobeid Zuma: It doesn’t all appear on the same page with a label saying “eye” at the top!
[2014/01/14 16:19]  ArtCrash Exonar: There is no dinosaur dna in the real world. That is just Jurrassic Park. There is however recent extinct animal DNA
[2014/01/14 16:20]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): wow with the platform of e= motionnal developement with the 3d environement , neutral where the information could b e shared, on certain liberation of, rl- conflict, , offering an opportunity of a justice project related as well
[2014/01/14 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: (I think Gwyn is confusing the work done on hox-genes for some universal truth about eyes, Zo)
[2014/01/14 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Look at how our cloning technology is so error-prone, and we’re talking about the *same* species. We need thousands of tries to get just one that works. And that with *sheep*. With humans it’s even more complex!
[2014/01/14 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: not sure I follow, Alaya.
[2014/01/14 16:20]  Zobeid Zuma: It’s difficult, but it’s solvable… if there was incentive to tackle the problem. But nobody wants to touch it these days.
[2014/01/14 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I might, Extie. But there is no evidence to support the contrary 🙂
[2014/01/14 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What you mean is that it works, even if it’s hard to do, Zo. And hard means expensive.
[2014/01/14 16:21]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): maybe , my idea came to late , separated from the previous idea. sorry
[2014/01/14 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: I do not believe that if you remove all the instructions for making a human eye and replace it with dino-eye instructions, you still get a human eye.
[2014/01/14 16:22]  Zobeid Zuma: Hard-and-expensive things become easy-and-cheap with experience and competition, but we don’t have that going now.
[2014/01/14 16:22]  ArtCrash Exonar: What IS going on right now is the introduction of all types of genes into various plants….
[2014/01/14 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Current bio college students routinely do frog cloning as part of their training. It’s boring, routine work,. nothing exciting about it. It becomes interesting (and WAY harder) with mammals.
[2014/01/14 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: That would be like the genome somehow thinking ‘well this is not right. I am supposed to make a human eye here’. How can it?
[2014/01/14 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re assuming that teh DNA defines everything.
[2014/01/14 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which is what we used to think in the 1990s.
[2014/01/14 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now we know it doesn’t. Not by far.
[2014/01/14 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *context* is fundamental,
[2014/01/14 16:23]  Extropia DaSilva: hmmm..maybe I am. Not an expert in this matter you see.
[2014/01/14 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and that context is given by embryology
[2014/01/14 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: as well as some ‘marker proteins’ which we still don’t understand well yet
[2014/01/14 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But in one, two decades at most,
[2014/01/14 16:24]  Extropia DaSilva: Is a dino embryo really that different?
[2014/01/14 16:24]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): stimulation is affecting genes alot more than, just gene , once they are trigguered
[2014/01/14 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’ll see that DNA has actually just a minor role in hereditarity
[2014/01/14 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: chemically speaking, oh yes!
[2014/01/14 16:24]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): there isa pre gene … formation
[2014/01/14 16:24]  Zobeid Zuma: Minor? Surely you exaggerate. :/
[2014/01/14 16:24]  ArtCrash Exonar: Right now what they do is to physically shoot genes into other dna and see what happens.
[2014/01/14 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, well, a major one 🙂
[2014/01/14 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But not the only one 🙂
[2014/01/14 16:24]  Extropia DaSilva: I mean, it has four limbs, a backbone, a brain. Not all that different.
[2014/01/14 16:24]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): lol now we would be back to guns
[2014/01/14 16:24]  Zobeid Zuma: Anyhow we’ve strayed….
[2014/01/14 16:24]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): genes guns,
[2014/01/14 16:24]  Extropia DaSilva: Uhuh!
[2014/01/14 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It would be nice that it were THAT simple, Extie.
[2014/01/14 16:25]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): its a dangerous armement there
[2014/01/14 16:25]  Extropia DaSilva: Shall we get back to the topic for the last 5 mins?
[2014/01/14 16:25]  Zobeid Zuma: In a post-human society, I’m sure we’ll figure out how to engineer life forms, difficult or not. 🙂
[2014/01/14 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s probable, yes
[2014/01/14 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, we will know how to enhance humans
[2014/01/14 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s much simpler
[2014/01/14 16:25]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): if the tendencies are maintaining themself, than its the next gun, eradicating genetically, so humans woudnt be able to even considere to be human at all
[2014/01/14 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, yes, we will prolong lifespans
[2014/01/14 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and we will be healthier
[2014/01/14 16:26]  ArtCrash Exonar: We will engineer perfect bums for all. But then we will have to decide what perfect is, and if SL is any measure, it is all over the place. haha
[2014/01/14 16:26]  Zobeid Zuma: Haha!
[2014/01/14 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: we will grow our own failed organs easily, with 3D printers… no, wait, we already do that today
[2014/01/14 16:26]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): lol
[2014/01/14 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Art 🙂
[2014/01/14 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: could be that engineered lifeforms outnumber natural ones. Hey, maybe post-humans populate the other planets around us with artificial life designed to thrive in their environments?
[2014/01/14 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, yes, I think we will be physically superhumans
[2014/01/14 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But mentally as bad as today 🙂
[2014/01/14 16:27]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): cretivity and art, as a research full disciplinary
[2014/01/14 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So there will be as much difference from that next-gen society and ours,
[2014/01/14 16:27]  Extropia DaSilva: not even a bit better, Gwyn?
[2014/01/14 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: as the difference between today and the Renaissance
[2014/01/14 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nope. If you don’t change people’s minds, why should things be “better”?
[2014/01/14 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: They will still motiviated by the same things.
[2014/01/14 16:27]  Second Life: Ian Mondrian is offline.
[2014/01/14 16:27]  Zobeid Zuma: I’d love to see other planets used to create new cultures.
[2014/01/14 16:27]  Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): i dont imagine other planets , i cant go there
[2014/01/14 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s the focus that will change
[2014/01/14 16:27]  Zobeid Zuma: But I am a Civ player. 🙂
[2014/01/14 16:27]  Extropia DaSilva: We are better in many ways than our ancestors., More peaceful more tolerant. So why not expect post-humans to be more angelic than we are?
[2014/01/14 16:28]  ArtCrash Exonar: I don’t think it would take that long for a medieval intellectual to understand our current world. We haven’t advances as far as we think….
[2014/01/14 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: We might not get angry for losing a job, because robots will do everything;: but we mighty fight because someone has better clones than we have, and we will desire to have what they have — jealousy 🙂
[2014/01/14 16:28]  Zobeid Zuma: It’s not safe to extrapolate current trends into the future, Extie.
[2014/01/14 16:28]  Extropia DaSilva: YOu know, I never played Civilisation. Shame, sounds like a great game.
[2014/01/14 16:28]  Zobeid Zuma: You can get it on Steam now.
[2014/01/14 16:28]  Extropia DaSilva: There is no other way to predict the future, though.
[2014/01/14 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: I agree. They will spot differences, sure. For example, the much longer lifespan, the better health (and the universal health system), better food. But they will still see our main motivations are the same!
[2014/01/14 16:29]  Extropia DaSilva: Nah, take up too much of my life.
[2014/01/14 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I *think* we might be moderately more peaceful,
[2014/01/14 16:29]  Extropia DaSilva: one minute left..will this next gen civilsation be better? Worse? or just different?
[2014/01/14 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: since we learned to channel aggression into football and economics.
[2014/01/14 16:29]  Zobeid Zuma: I think of it as useful training for that inevitable time when I’ll have a country of my own to run! 😀
[2014/01/14 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say it would be slightly better, Extie, but not fundamentally different.
[2014/01/14 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: Yay Zo! You dream big!
[2014/01/14 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh Zo
[2014/01/14 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll vote for you!
[2014/01/14 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: better!
[2014/01/14 16:30]  Zobeid Zuma: I’ll say better…
[2014/01/14 16:30]  Zobeid Zuma: More stable, anyhow.
[2014/01/14 16:30]  Ari (arisia.vita): better
[2014/01/14 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Better health, better food, better living conditions, better apartments, more leisure time. All that is an improvement
[2014/01/14 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: I vote for the land to be called Zumaria.
[2014/01/14 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahah
[2014/01/14 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zumaria is a GREAT name!
[2014/01/14 16:31]  Zobeid Zuma: Oh, I like that.
[2014/01/14 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So do I!
[2014/01/14 16:31]  Extropia DaSilva: that settles it, then.
[2014/01/14 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can I emigrate to Zumaria?
[2014/01/14 16:31]  Extropia DaSilva: OK my time is up. Next week…probably something to do with China.
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