Thinkers Dec 03 2013: Autonomous flying robots

 Extropia DaSilva: Welcome to Thinkers!
[2013/12/03 15:32]  Extropia DaSilva: Soon your Amazon purchases could be delivered pronto via nifty drones! What are the pros and cons of autonomous flying robots?
[2013/12/03 15:32]  Ivy Sunkiller: isn’t xbox on DX?
[2013/12/03 15:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Throwing more people into unemployment?
[2013/12/03 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: yes DX 10 I believe.
[2013/12/03 15:33]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think the Shotgun skeet shooters are getting excited about them.
[2013/12/03 15:33]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2013/12/03 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: Is that a pro or a con, Gwyn? 🙂
[2013/12/03 15:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: EMP jamming. Poof, there goes your delivery
[2013/12/03 15:33]  ArtCrash Exonar: No more UPS man to lust after…..
[2013/12/03 15:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, from the perspective of those who are unemployed, it’s a con.
[2013/12/03 15:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: From the perspective of the employers of course it’s a pro 🙂
[2013/12/03 15:34]  Ivy Sunkiller: throwing people doing boring jobs into unemployment is a long term good thing, short term it can be a tragedy of course
[2013/12/03 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: Ah, but it is a step toward the jobless society, which of course is a pre-requisite of any utopia.
[2013/12/03 15:34]  Zobeid Zuma: There’s a lot of skepticism about the drone thing, and they only have a range of… 10 miles? I see a lot of problems with this.
[2013/12/03 15:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like Namibia?
[2013/12/03 15:34]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think that stuff will work ok, until air traffic gets too crowded. and wouldn’t it be easy to mix in a terrorist bomb here and there with one of those?
[2013/12/03 15:34]  Tikor: Some protestants would want work in their utopia, as a counterexample…
[2013/12/03 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or Nigeria? Well, pick one of those many countries with jobless societoies. How many of you would love to live there?
[2013/12/03 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: Work yes. Job, no.
[2013/12/03 15:35]  Second Life: Lilly (taylor.schroeder) is offline.
[2013/12/03 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, reduce unemployment, shoot drones down 😀
[2013/12/03 15:35]  Tikor: But I agree that the freedom from work obligation is a feature of all utopias I’d like to live in
[2013/12/03 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s fun 🙂
[2013/12/03 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: I obviously mean a jobless society where there is ubiquitous material wealth, not one where you are thrown into poverty:)
[2013/12/03 15:36]  Extropia DaSilva: But anyway…drones…
[2013/12/03 15:36]  ArtCrash Exonar: I was wondering how they will handle the first power outage caused by a drone in power lines….?
[2013/12/03 15:36]  Extropia DaSilva: The drones avoid them?
[2013/12/03 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. That’s utopic. Either you have a jobless society without wealth, or a wealthy society with jobs 🙂
[2013/12/03 15:36]  Zobeid Zuma: The same air traffic system that Amazon are depending upon for this drone scheme could also be used to make self-piloting personal aircraft practical — also known as “flying cars”.
[2013/12/03 15:36]  ArtCrash Exonar: And of course what could go wrong? haha
[2013/12/03 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh I like that, Zo
[2013/12/03 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: BTW you’re aware that Amazon is copying an Australian courier service that is already employing drones, right?
[2013/12/03 15:37]  ArtCrash Exonar: Anything controlled from the outside could be hacked as well.
[2013/12/03 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Go Australia
[2013/12/03 15:37]  Tikor: Power lines have a pretty unique electromagnetic signature. I’d imagine drones could sense them in ways more sophisticated than sight, and more accurately.
[2013/12/03 15:37]  Ivy Sunkiller: you can be a wealthy society without jobs, it all depends on how many people you can exclude from society while still exploiting them 🙂
[2013/12/03 15:37]  Moriah Kidd: Welcome back Selene.
[2013/12/03 15:37]  Ivy Sunkiller: wbies Selene 🙂
[2013/12/03 15:37]  ArtCrash Exonar: good one Ivy
[2013/12/03 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ivy: Roman EMpire comes to mind…
[2013/12/03 15:37]  Ivy Sunkiller: /me likes empires
[2013/12/03 15:37]  Selene Ambrose: Thank you.
[2013/12/03 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: If robots do all the jobs and the welfare system is set up to positively exploit their labour, people could easily be retired from birth.
[2013/12/03 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: In Rome, all citizens were wealthy. There were no poor people. And most ROman citizens didn’t work… much. They all relied upon slaves.
[2013/12/03 15:38]  Ginger Lacourte: I’m an American…  we’re all members of a special kind of existential conspiracy, where we are defined by our jobs.  A workless society would be a nightmare, leaving hundreds of millions in existential hell.  They would go mad, from crushed self-identity,
[2013/12/03 15:38]  Moriah Kidd: /me could tolerate one she were emplress of.
[2013/12/03 15:38]  ArtCrash Exonar: to true Ginger
[2013/12/03 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: Well, there you go, the robots are the slaves.
[2013/12/03 15:38]  ArtCrash Exonar: too
[2013/12/03 15:38]  Tikor: I’d rather have existential crises than monetary crises. And I’m American. But I’m biased by too much reading =p
[2013/12/03 15:39]  Ginger Lacourte: Work also means you learn to pack your own baggage.
[2013/12/03 15:39]  Extropia DaSilva: So this Amazon air thing, it has too many problems to be viable?
[2013/12/03 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, Extie, so we need about 60-70 billion coscious robots to sustain a world population of 6-7 billion humans without work 🙂
[2013/12/03 15:39]  Ginger Lacourte: …and carry it too.
[2013/12/03 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh
[2013/12/03 15:39]  Ivy Sunkiller: I don’t think neither of those are good, Tikor
[2013/12/03 15:39]  Tikor: No, it will fly 🙂
[2013/12/03 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think people didn’t see what I posted
[2013/12/03 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *this is already being done by an Australian courier service*
[2013/12/03 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Amazon is just copying the idea
[2013/12/03 15:39]  Extropia DaSilva: I do not think the robots need to be conscious.
[2013/12/03 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So sure it will work
[2013/12/03 15:39]  Tikor: But drone delivery will be expensive, limited, a novelty for the rich for longer than the inventors imagine.
[2013/12/03 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: I’m not sure if I’d like to allow a non-conscious robot to do brain surgery… 🙂
[2013/12/03 15:40]  ArtCrash Exonar: Gwyn the US military has been delivering things by drone for some time now….. heh
[2013/12/03 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tikor: in Australia, it’s exactly the contrary
[2013/12/03 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: yes, hehe
[2013/12/03 15:40]  Zobeid Zuma: That 10 mile limit is the part that sticks with me, since I’m probably a good 120 miles from any Amazon warehouse.
[2013/12/03 15:40]  Ginger Lacourte: Better they work on driverless cars, which would so reduce traffic, the drones wouldn’t be a asset.
[2013/12/03 15:40]  Ivy Sunkiller: Art: they do, with deadly precision
[2013/12/03 15:40]  Tikor: Gwyn: There’s a working drone delivery system in Australia?
[2013/12/03 15:40]  ArtCrash Exonar: But on a positive note, Zo you still get the UPS man
[2013/12/03 15:41]  Extropia DaSilva: That is not so, Tikor. A study into using a network of drones to deliver vital supplies in countries where the roads are unreliable found it to be a very, very cheap and quick means of establishing a network for supplies.
[2013/12/03 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tikor: http://www.dezeen.com/2013/10/16/flying-drones-to-deliver-text-books/
[2013/12/03 15:41]  Zobeid Zuma: He’s been sneaking around here, dropping packages on my front porch when I’m not watching. 😦
[2013/12/03 15:41]  Tikor: My unspoken and unrealized assumption is the first world, where roads are reliable.
[2013/12/03 15:41]  Extropia DaSilva: I assume it is cheaper to send my iPad4 via a drone than it is to send a truck?
[2013/12/03 15:42]  ArtCrash Exonar: The weight limit of the drones is small though, right? like 3 kilos?
[2013/12/03 15:42]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes.
[2013/12/03 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, no deliveries of ovens
[2013/12/03 15:42]  Zobeid Zuma: Text books? Really? Shouldn’t those be sent as ebooks?
[2013/12/03 15:42]  Extropia DaSilva: But they could work in teams to deliver heavier packages.
[2013/12/03 15:42]  Zobeid Zuma: Using a drone to ship dead trees around just seems perverse, like some 1950s vision of the information age.
[2013/12/03 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2013/12/03 15:43]  Selene Ambrose: pneumatic tubes
[2013/12/03 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Personally I think that Amazon *knows+ this will work, so they’re certainly going to do it.
[2013/12/03 15:43]  ArtCrash Exonar: I noticed in the demo video that the drones dropped a plastic box that was a one way trip. So that seems to be kind of wasteful.
[2013/12/03 15:43]  Selene Ambrose: That would be old school.
[2013/12/03 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes Zo, unless it is something like a first edition of Origin Of Species. Not sure I would want that delivered by a quad copter, though!
[2013/12/03 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me has a first edition of the Origin of Species…. in French though
[2013/12/03 15:43]  Zobeid Zuma: /me suggests a Skycrane.
[2013/12/03 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: Like the Mars rover used?
[2013/12/03 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: A bit… big, isn’t it?
[2013/12/03 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: Now that was cool!
[2013/12/03 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes!
[2013/12/03 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think the fun bit will see those drones all going haywire when a script kiddie hacks them
[2013/12/03 15:44]  Zobeid Zuma: A lot of people don’t realize how long this automated computerized air traffic control system has been in the works. It’s been decades, I think.
[2013/12/03 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, the drones have to stop for a bit while delivering… hatch off, USB cord in, zip the EPROM, upload new code, har har har
[2013/12/03 15:45]  Extropia DaSilva: I believe a natural partner for these quad copters is the Oculus Rift. Imagine them with stereoscopic cameras sending the feed to your headset. I could have endless fun with that.
[2013/12/03 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Really, Zo? You mean the one we have from the early 1960s, or a new one that addresses drones?
[2013/12/03 15:45]  Tikor: I’d like to assume the military takes drone cybersecurity seriously. And future adoptors like Amazon would too, right?
[2013/12/03 15:45]  Second Life: Corin Exin (corin.clary) is online.
[2013/12/03 15:45]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think they need to be controlled over the airwaves, because they are using google maps to navigate
[2013/12/03 15:45]  Zobeid Zuma: But that’s why you can’t buy a Moller Skycar. It’s not an aerodynamic problem, or a propulsion problem, it’s just a traffic control problem.
[2013/12/03 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you can hack iPhones, you can hack drones.
[2013/12/03 15:46]  Zobeid Zuma: Err… I thought they’d been developing it since the 1980s, but I could be wrong. I’d have to look it up.
[2013/12/03 15:46]  ArtCrash Exonar: Imagina all mail order places using drones, they would be a menace in the skies
[2013/12/03 15:46]  Tikor: Extie: I’ve seen a gopro on an eagle – I bet quadcoptor cam would be pretty cool too.
[2013/12/03 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If they’re using the same tech as the AUssies, Art, then the drones are autonomous agents
[2013/12/03 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have autonomous agents way, way before Google even existed 🙂 It’s a vewry mature tech 🙂
[2013/12/03 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And no
[2013/12/03 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Autonomous agents are *very good* at avoiding obstacles
[2013/12/03 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s tech from 1977 🙂
[2013/12/03 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Obstacles = other drones
[2013/12/03 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So there is no problem with the *tech* really
[2013/12/03 15:47]  Ginger Lacourte: /me smiles…
[2013/12/03 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s solid !
[2013/12/03 15:47]  Ginger Lacourte: (‘night all!)
[2013/12/03 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bye Ginger!
[2013/12/03 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or hi Ginger! lol
[2013/12/03 15:47]  Extropia DaSilva: Maybe the quad copter delivery thing will be kind of short lived, because eventually pretty much everything you want will be 3D printable?
[2013/12/03 15:47]  ArtCrash Exonar: later Ginger
[2013/12/03 15:47]  Second Life: Corin Exin (corin.clary) is offline.
[2013/12/03 15:47]  Ivy Sunkiller: nini!
[2013/12/03 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: First editions of the Origin of Species won’t be printable
[2013/12/03 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: In fact,
[2013/12/03 15:48]  Selene Ambrose: Bye Ginger!
[2013/12/03 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: well, no.
[2013/12/03 15:48]  ArtCrash Exonar: These amazon ones have 6 rotors, right?
[2013/12/03 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: anything that cannot be printable will become luxury items 🙂
[2013/12/03 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: do they?
[2013/12/03 15:48]  ArtCrash Exonar: I saw in the pic
[2013/12/03 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: .. and will be traded on Amazon and eBay
[2013/12/03 15:48]  Tikor: I see 3d printing and quad coptering synergistic. I bet my local Staples will have a higher quality 3d printer than me, and that makes delivery much easier. I doubt they’d crowd each other out.
[2013/12/03 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: Hex-copter sounds too much like a curse.
[2013/12/03 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha
[2013/12/03 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, good point, Tikor
[2013/12/03 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: yes, it was.
[2013/12/03 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Amazon might replace their warehouses by high-rez 3D printers, printing out things with far higher quality and at a lower price than someone with their home printer
[2013/12/03 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean
[2013/12/03 15:49]  ArtCrash Exonar: The temptation to take pot shots at them would be large. Don’t take them over gang areas where everyone has a loaded gun in their pants.
[2013/12/03 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: home laser printers did NOT replace ypographies
[2013/12/03 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: So you are either going to have to live near a distribution centre, or they are going to have to extend the range of these drones. Otherwise there is no Amazon Air for you.
[2013/12/03 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: yes 🙂 That is, indeed, probably the major issue: vandalism
[2013/12/03 15:50]  Ivy Sunkiller: order your own stuff 3d printed and delivered home by a drone?
[2013/12/03 15:50]  ArtCrash Exonar: My home printer TOTALLY replaced the quick printer for me.
[2013/12/03 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well I see that as a step ahead, Extie… another 5 years, Amazon builds more warehouses, etc
[2013/12/03 15:50]  Zobeid Zuma: You need APM, not mere “3D printers”. That’s a whole different level of technology.
[2013/12/03 15:51]  Ivy Sunkiller: as soon as we can print some nice smooth silicon, anal toys industry will never be the same
[2013/12/03 15:51]  ArtCrash Exonar: what’s APM?
[2013/12/03 15:51]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha Ivy
[2013/12/03 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: Atomically Precise Manufacturing.
[2013/12/03 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Art, but in the 1990s we all thought that the book industry would disappear because people would print books at home 🙂
[2013/12/03 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: The new name for Nanotechnology!
[2013/12/03 15:51]  Zobeid Zuma: Atomically Precise Manufacturing, like Eric Drexler and the Foresight Institute are agitating for.
[2013/12/03 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm.
[2013/12/03 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s quite an unprecise name for a precise technology. But ok.
[2013/12/03 15:51]  ArtCrash Exonar: So I’m thinking the first killer app category for this at Amazon is Sex Toys?
[2013/12/03 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: Is it possible to refine 3D printing, make the resolution smaller and smaller, until it is an APM?
[2013/12/03 15:52]  Zobeid Zuma: Hmm… I wouldn’t think so, not as such.
[2013/12/03 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Maaaaybe. Ask IBM
[2013/12/03 15:52]  ArtCrash Exonar: Victoria’s Secret can deliver underwear this way!
[2013/12/03 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: The problem was Gwyn, the name ‘nanotech’ got abused and misused so Drexler had to invent a new name for his original vision. APM is pretty good, actually.
[2013/12/03 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha Art — in transparent plastic bags? ^^
[2013/12/03 15:52]  ArtCrash Exonar: he hee
[2013/12/03 15:52]  Zobeid Zuma: You have to build the APM components somewhere, they aren’t bulk materials like you use in 3D printers.
[2013/12/03 15:53]  Tikor: APM is additive like 3d printing. I think the only difference is the blocks, and conditions (like room temperature). So to say they’d become the same is disingenous to the terms as they stand I think.
[2013/12/03 15:53]  Extropia DaSilva: yeah, so it will probably come from DNA origami, synthetic proteins, ands stuff like that?
[2013/12/03 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I get it, Extie, it’s like the guys researching cold fusion… they cannot use the words ‘cold fusion’ or nobody will publish them
[2013/12/03 15:54]  Zobeid Zuma: Haha! Actually, it’s more like the opposite problem.
[2013/12/03 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right!
[2013/12/03 15:54]  ArtCrash Exonar: They use the word hot air for hot water instead of Cold Fusion, right?
[2013/12/03 15:54]  ArtCrash Exonar: in their papers that is.
[2013/12/03 15:54]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2013/12/03 15:54]  ArtCrash Exonar: nevermind
[2013/12/03 15:55]  ArtCrash Exonar: I’m unfiltered, really. It is my downfall
[2013/12/03 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Naaah…. there is a LOT of research going on. No breakthroughs though. And searching for ‘cold fusion’ will NOT give any results 🙂
[2013/12/03 15:55]  Zobeid Zuma: What’s irksome about “cold fusion” is that it’s tainted even conventional hot fusion research, in the minds of investors and policy makers. 😦
[2013/12/03 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway
[2013/12/03 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, I think these drone things will become so commonplace that we won’t even notice they’re around
[2013/12/03 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: like mobile phones
[2013/12/03 15:55]  Second Life: Deebs (deebrane.string) is online.
[2013/12/03 15:55]  Extropia DaSilva: Well some nanotech involves taking a large thing and reducing it down to a size where novel properties emerge, such as grounding a coke can down the the size where its particles become a fuel-air explosive. Drexler’s nanotech is the opposite, Start with the tiny (molecules) and build them up into something larger.
[2013/12/03 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just something that *makes sense*
[2013/12/03 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: They will have to figure out a way to deal with vandalism…
[2013/12/03 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps shoot back 🙂 heh heh
[2013/12/03 15:56]  Second Life: Zel Rai (zel.ming) is online.
[2013/12/03 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The rest is actually trivial
[2013/12/03 15:56]  ArtCrash Exonar: Yes, Or take a picture of the Vandal and put it on the internet
[2013/12/03 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That won’t avoid a package not being delivered, but ok
[2013/12/03 15:56]  Extropia DaSilva: If only they could perfect visible-light cloaks, the drones could invisibly deliver your goods and neatly avoid them pesky vandals with shotguns:)
[2013/12/03 15:57]  Moriah Kidd: Sorry was off walking the dog.
[2013/12/03 15:57]  ArtCrash Exonar: Do these droned work at night?
[2013/12/03 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, but then you’d have a problem avoiding nearby drones 🙂
[2013/12/03 15:57]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha Moriah
[2013/12/03 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: They could, they could use infrared 🙂
[2013/12/03 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Moriah
[2013/12/03 15:57]  Ivy Sunkiller: need a drone to walk the dog!
[2013/12/03 15:57]  Extropia DaSilva: BTW do listen to ‘walk the dog’ by Laurie Anderson. Weirdest song ever!
[2013/12/03 15:57]  Ivy Sunkiller: or fly the dog!
[2013/12/03 15:57]  Moriah Kidd: Ciao for now time to go make dinner
[2013/12/03 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bye 🙂
[2013/12/03 15:57]  Moriah Kidd: He might bite th drone
[2013/12/03 15:57]  Ivy Sunkiller: bye Moriah! 🙂
[2013/12/03 15:57]  ArtCrash Exonar: laterz
[2013/12/03 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. Dogs delivered by drone.
[2013/12/03 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And cat food delivered by drone! Hours of entertainment!
[2013/12/03 15:58]  ArtCrash Exonar: Buy a pet by drone, get it in 30 minutes!
[2013/12/03 15:58]  Moriah Kidd: A drone could bring me my dinner.
[2013/12/03 15:58]  Moriah Kidd: That would be ok.
[2013/12/03 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only thing I didn’t understand from those videos is how the drones land on buildings where flats don’t have a convenientlanding area….
[2013/12/03 15:58]  Zobeid Zuma: Pizza delivery seems like a natural.
[2013/12/03 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: Talking of being entertained for hours, who has seen the YouTube vid with the little dog operating an automatic ball-throwing machine?
[2013/12/03 15:59]  ArtCrash Exonar: Actually, drones would work for that last minute run to the grocery store you can’t do because you are cooking a feast for others and have no time.
[2013/12/03 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: but I’m sure they figured that out too
[2013/12/03 15:59]  Tikor: How does animal shipment work today? I imagine it’s pretty restrictive.
[2013/12/03 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: quite so, Tikor
[2013/12/03 15:59]  Ivy Sunkiller: wbies again 🙂
[2013/12/03 15:59]  ArtCrash Exonar: Did the dog fetch until death?
[2013/12/03 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: specially in bulk
[2013/12/03 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: I think Pizza delivery was the first thing tried with a Drone. first delivery, I mean.
[2013/12/03 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Really?
[2013/12/03 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes.
[2013/12/03 15:59]  Zobeid Zuma: I was thinking there should be some way to mark your preferred drop spot, with some sort of RF transponder, or maybe even some visible symbol the drone can recognize.
[2013/12/03 16:00]  Extropia DaSilva: That was years ago.
[2013/12/03 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cool idea 😉
[2013/12/03 16:00]  Extropia DaSilva: Just a gimmick, not an actual service..
[2013/12/03 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok
[2013/12/03 16:00]  Zobeid Zuma: Now that reminds me of Minuteman Pizza!
[2013/12/03 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, Zo, something like that…. because GPS is not precise enough…. a symbol would do
[2013/12/03 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that reminds me of “Snow Crash” 🙂
[2013/12/03 16:00]  Extropia DaSilva: But there was a part in GAdget Man, a british TV series about upcoming gadgets, in which food was delivered by a drone.
[2013/12/03 16:00]  ArtCrash Exonar: The main problems I see for the drones is when they become ubiquitous, and then it’s about traffic problems. I wonder if the FAA will regulate a certain part of the air space for them. say lower than 100 feet or something….
[2013/12/03 16:00]  Tikor: Proof of concepts are important, though. They bring in the venture capital to build the service. I’m impressed, and I’d buy a pizza via drone.
[2013/12/03 16:01]  Zobeid Zuma: For those who don’t remember this old WWW classic: http://users.bestweb.net/~bennetc/minuteman.html
[2013/12/03 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Art, if drones have a ceiling limit to fly, then there is really no problem.
[2013/12/03 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The problem might start when you get *humans* on flying cars though 🙂
[2013/12/03 16:01]  Extropia DaSilva: I would by stuff delivered by drone just to see it delivered by drone.
[2013/12/03 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because, well, humans are not good at following rules… 😉
[2013/12/03 16:02]  ArtCrash Exonar: The problem is air traffic control, suck one of those in a jet engine and it wouldn’t be pretty.
[2013/12/03 16:02]  Tikor: I’d definitely prefer drone to ICBM!
[2013/12/03 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think the novelty will wear off, Extie, at some point, we’ll get everything by drone anyway
[2013/12/03 16:02]  ArtCrash Exonar: Or robotic UPS men
[2013/12/03 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, you can establish a ceiling, Art
[2013/12/03 16:02]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh, I am easily entertained.
[2013/12/03 16:02]  ArtCrash Exonar: I wonder if the robot UPS men will have shapely legs?
[2013/12/03 16:02]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2013/12/03 16:03]  Tikor: I’d imagine airports would be restricted airspace from drone delivery. We can keep the jets apart from the drones, at least most of the time.
[2013/12/03 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: After watching a drone repeatedly bumping into windows for the hundredth time, I’m sure the novelty WILL wear off
[2013/12/03 16:03]  Extropia DaSilva: If you specify that, your robot man would have shapely legs, Art dear:)
[2013/12/03 16:03]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2013/12/03 16:03]  Tikor: Being the customer has its advantages…
[2013/12/03 16:04]  ArtCrash Exonar: Nobody has said what this form of delivery will cost. Any guesses from our gallery here?
[2013/12/03 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope couriers are already training their employees in drone repairing and maintenance….
[2013/12/03 16:04]  Tikor: I’m still in the camp, for first world delivery, too much for the average user for probably a decade or more.
[2013/12/03 16:04]  Zobeid Zuma: /me quotes: “We are proud to offer our unique service for the amazingly low price of $749.50 for a basic large cheese pizza (serves four), and $2.00 for each additional topping. Discounts are available for multiple deliveries to the same location (perfect for wedding receptions and lawn parties – just stay under the tent until all the pizzas have arrived).”
[2013/12/03 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: Here is a quote from the Aussies: “”Currently in Australia same-day delivery by post cost eight to 20 [Australian] dollars,” he continues. “By Flirtey it will cost a fraction of that and the consumer won’t have to cover it because it will be included in the marketing budget of the companies that we partner with.””
[2013/12/03 16:05]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha Zo
[2013/12/03 16:05]  Zobeid Zuma: Oh, that was the ICBM thing. 🙂
[2013/12/03 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Zo
[2013/12/03 16:05]  Extropia DaSilva: I quite like the idea of some nerdy and girl-shy chap waiting for his lifesize sexdoll which looks just like me to be delievered by quad copter. Just imagine folks looking up ‘is it a bird? A plane? Nooo it is another Extie4000 sex bot!’.
[2013/12/03 16:05]  ArtCrash Exonar: By Flirty?
[2013/12/03 16:05]  Extropia DaSilva: …probably prefer a more discrete delivery service, though:)
[2013/12/03 16:06]  Tikor: Extie: you mean like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RopEHHgCIv0
[2013/12/03 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hat’s the company name, Art
[2013/12/03 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *that’s
[2013/12/03 16:06]  Extropia DaSilva: I might do, but I am not going to watch that.
[2013/12/03 16:06]  ArtCrash Exonar: Sex toys would have to come in a plastic box that looks like a brown paper bag.
[2013/12/03 16:06]  Extropia DaSilva: why?
[2013/12/03 16:06]  Zobeid Zuma: If there’s a comic shop near you, Extie, you should check out Alex + Ada.
[2013/12/03 16:06]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes there is!
[2013/12/03 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Other companies seeking to legitimize drones for commercial use include the U.S.-based 3D Robotics, which recently raised a $30 million Series B round, and Matternet. Flirtey, a joint venture with Zookal, a student services platform, started as a project by engineering students at the University of Sydney and now seeks to test, scale and commercialize UAVs before exporting its technology around the world.”
[2013/12/03 16:06]  ArtCrash Exonar: The neighbors might talk, Extie….
[2013/12/03 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: Near my primary is a shop that specialises in comics and D+D board games.
[2013/12/03 16:07]  Ivy Sunkiller: no Simulat to whip here today, Izzy
[2013/12/03 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay, lucky you!
[2013/12/03 16:07]  izze Auster: WHERE IS MY  DRONE..  you stole it?
[2013/12/03 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: No izzie, it achieved sentience and joined the robot revolt.
[2013/12/03 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ha! Now that’s a problem!
[2013/12/03 16:08]  izze Auster: is this about drones?
[2013/12/03 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: yes.
[2013/12/03 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: if drones become too clever, they might rebel.
[2013/12/03 16:08]  izze Auster: i love those things
[2013/12/03 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then the courier services will be out of luck
[2013/12/03 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: While humans are replaceable 🙂
[2013/12/03 16:09]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh good. Then perhaps you can think of something positive to say, unlike this bunch of downers!
[2013/12/03 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: he he
[2013/12/03 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hey! I’ve been very positive so far!
[2013/12/03 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I really think that this will have mainstream adoption by 2025 or so
[2013/12/03 16:09]  ArtCrash Exonar: Drones would be great for practical jokes, you could anonymously send your boss one of those yellow boxes and when it opened it could be a doggy poop! Fun!
[2013/12/03 16:09]  Extropia DaSilva: well, maybe. Not been paying too much attention to be honest.
[2013/12/03 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aww
[2013/12/03 16:09]  izze Auster: well  there is a guy in india making some of the best drones,, he males to order
[2013/12/03 16:09]  izze Auster: and theyare for cameras etc
[2013/12/03 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: you can do that without drones as well
[2013/12/03 16:09]  izze Auster: i thought that was great
[2013/12/03 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh
[2013/12/03 16:10]  ArtCrash Exonar: But but but
[2013/12/03 16:10]  ArtCrash Exonar: It’s all about the drama
[2013/12/03 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s less techy? 🙂
[2013/12/03 16:10]  Zobeid Zuma: What about terrorism? What’s to keep them from delivering pipe bombs, after all?
[2013/12/03 16:10]  ArtCrash Exonar: I mentioned that earlier too.
[2013/12/03 16:10]  ArtCrash Exonar: big problem
[2013/12/03 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, I have no easy answer for that, either
[2013/12/03 16:10]  izze Auster: here in teh bush fires,, news papers sent them up  for pics.. but they had to stop the hellicopters dropping water as they over reacted and said it would crash teh choppers
[2013/12/03 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: with good enough cameras how much grip equipment (dollys, cranes) could drones replace? Would a film crew maybe one day use nothing but drones to shoot their movie?
[2013/12/03 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oooh good one, Extie!
[2013/12/03 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Maybe!
[2013/12/03 16:11]  Tikor: Like in agents of shield? The little forensic bots?
[2013/12/03 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: I mean along with people to operate them. DP, camerapeople..
[2013/12/03 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mm hmm
[2013/12/03 16:11]  ArtCrash Exonar: I saw reference to a film crew using a GoPro in shoots already.
[2013/12/03 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Some studios are already completely remote controlled, wven without drones
[2013/12/03 16:12]  Tikor: I can imagine it, but the cinematographer would still be a vital role – with her remote control!
[2013/12/03 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I haven’t seen the same happening outdoors. Drones might be the answer!
[2013/12/03 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes of course, Tikor
[2013/12/03 16:12]  ArtCrash Exonar: Yes, the cinematographer would have a joystick and a computer screen.
[2013/12/03 16:12]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes but the director of photography LIGHTS the scene.
[2013/12/03 16:13]  Second Life: Steampunkables (joey.aboma) is online.
[2013/12/03 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: Well, the gaffer (electrician) actually lights the scene but under direction of the DP, whose job it is to get the look the director wants.
[2013/12/03 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I have no direct experience in movie production, so I can’t tell
[2013/12/03 16:13]  ArtCrash Exonar: Right now in Hollywood, those using high rez video are able to shoot with so much less light that they are changing the entire way they work.
[2013/12/03 16:13]  izze Auster: again,, its still battery time that is the issue,, so, should we expect excellent power storage coming in teh future out of this,, even helping our home use in solar power etc, you just cant rejet technology
[2013/12/03 16:14]  Zobeid Zuma: When the credits start rolling by listing 500 people, my eyes just glaze over.
[2013/12/03 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: whispers: 😀
[2013/12/03 16:14]  Extropia DaSilva: Zo, the credits for the Lord Of The Rings extended version take wellover 40 minutes.
[2013/12/03 16:14]  ArtCrash Exonar: Those type of devices don’t need to be electric, The model airplane motors out there aren’t
[2013/12/03 16:14]  Tikor: On a movie set battery power could be mitigated by drone numbers, just have another set of drones switch in between takes while the other set charges.
[2013/12/03 16:14]  Zobeid Zuma: I know my latest camera can almost see in the dark.
[2013/12/03 16:15]  ArtCrash Exonar: Digital LED light drones flying just where you need them
[2013/12/03 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point, Art. I haven’t seen if these drones from Flirtey are electric or not.
[2013/12/03 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: perhaps not
[2013/12/03 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: If the drones were green, the extensive use in Green screen filming would mean they could be anywhere and it would not matter because nobody will see them.
[2013/12/03 16:16]  ArtCrash Exonar: The camera I’m buying soon has an ISO film speed of 250,000. Fast film used to be 400 ISO
[2013/12/03 16:16]  Extropia DaSilva: show off:)
[2013/12/03 16:16]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2013/12/03 16:16]  izze Auster: i mean you must say this new technology is fantastic,, just try this,, put a friends number in this.. meta data
[2013/12/03 16:16]  izze Auster: http://www.trackapartner.com/
[2013/12/03 16:17]  Extropia DaSilva: so..replacing film cameras…delivering pizza…what else might drones do? Killl people in surgical strikes?
[2013/12/03 16:17]  Zobeid Zuma: Um? Mine only goes to 25,600. Are you sure you didn’t add a zero?
[2013/12/03 16:17]  ArtCrash Exonar: parameter is incorrect it says
[2013/12/03 16:17]  Tikor: I find the tendency to build panopticons worrying, not fantastic. I do appreciate a little privacy.
[2013/12/03 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Fire.fighting, but you need bigger drones
[2013/12/03 16:17]  ArtCrash Exonar: Isn’t it interesting that the first uses for drones were warfare?
[2013/12/03 16:17]  ArtCrash Exonar: We haven’t come very far really….
[2013/12/03 16:18]  Tikor: Considering the funding landscape, I’d call military first the norm for robotics.
[2013/12/03 16:18]  Second Life: Lilly (taylor.schroeder) is online.
[2013/12/03 16:18]  Second Life: Magic Pathfinder (any1.gynoid) is offline.
[2013/12/03 16:18]  izze Auster: well its like warfare getting a good pizza
[2013/12/03 16:18]  Extropia DaSilva: These quad copters seem pretty easy to fly. So I would like a really big one I could sit and ride on:)
[2013/12/03 16:18]  ArtCrash Exonar: Privacy is receding very rapidly I’m afraid. It’s frightening.
[2013/12/03 16:19]  izze Auster: they have on ytube a guy riding a drone
[2013/12/03 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahahah izze — I *had* to try it out
[2013/12/03 16:19]  izze Auster: ahhaha
[2013/12/03 16:19]  Second Life: Magic Pathfinder (any1.gynoid) is online.
[2013/12/03 16:19]  Zobeid Zuma: What is privacy anymore?
[2013/12/03 16:19]  izze Auster: great isnt it
[2013/12/03 16:19]  ArtCrash Exonar: I wonder when a drone becomes a helicopter? When it can carry the weight of a person?
[2013/12/03 16:19]  Tikor: Extie will be the delivery herself! =p
[2013/12/03 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: so cool 🙂 I feel like an idiot now
[2013/12/03 16:19]  Extropia DaSilva: I find it a bit odd that people worry about privacy with Google glass when we already live with gazillions of smart phone cameras that could be recording us any time we are out in public:)
[2013/12/03 16:19]  izze Auster: hahaha
[2013/12/03 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh good question, Art, but apparently this is actually being discussed in the countries where drones are allowed
[2013/12/03 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it will be a legislative issue
[2013/12/03 16:20]  ArtCrash Exonar: So Gwyn will this lead to the long awaited FLYING CAR?????
[2013/12/03 16:20]  Zobeid Zuma: Somebody did a study and found that quad- and hex-copters are actually rather inefficient. We’ll probably see fewer rotors on future designs after all.
[2013/12/03 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Only if the human pilot is NOT allowed to ‘drive’ it Art
[2013/12/03 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, look at what people do, disrespecting traffic rules all the time 🙂
[2013/12/03 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Imagine that in 3D
[2013/12/03 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So if we get flying cars, they will actually be drones
[2013/12/03 16:21]  ArtCrash Exonar: Driving is going to go away as well, as shown by the Google car earlier this year.
[2013/12/03 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And you’ll still get hackers
[2013/12/03 16:21]  Zobeid Zuma: The Moller Skycar is almost there. My only worry is noise pollution, as eight rotary engines running full-throttle is going to definitely wake the neighborhood.
[2013/12/03 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: btw Clay Shirky is fronting a campaign to ban killer robots, so if you agree why not lend him your support?
[2013/12/03 16:21]  izze Auster: in most countries ,, under VFR .. visual flight rules,, 1,000 feet is teh lower limit over housing,, and 500 over natural country,, so leaves plenty of room for drones
[2013/12/03 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, my car mechanic *hacks* my car’s CPUs. I’m not joking!
[2013/12/03 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: I believe you..
[2013/12/03 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: there are lots of computers in modern cars.
[2013/12/03 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even on cars dating back to 1995 🙂
[2013/12/03 16:22]  ArtCrash Exonar: Modern cars won’t run without them now.
[2013/12/03 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: what does he propose instead, more people killing people? At least I prefer killer robots destroying other killer robots 🙂
[2013/12/03 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: I reckon people would be surprised to learn just how many computers they own.
[2013/12/03 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye….
[2013/12/03 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I’m looking forward to drones that carry humans, yes 🙂
[2013/12/03 16:23]  Extropia DaSilva: I guess he thinks life or death decisions are better left to people to decide.
[2013/12/03 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No more traffic jams — because Ai software is much better than humans at avoiding collisions 🙂
[2013/12/03 16:23]  Ivy Sunkiller: yes, we need to get rid of the highly precise computers and always insist on putting in fallible human element into the equation
[2013/12/03 16:23]  ArtCrash Exonar: So imagine a war where both sides fight using killer robots, When they kill each other instead of humans, doesn’t that sort of defeat the whole point of war?
[2013/12/03 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: well, my point would be to replace *all* humans in the military by robots, then you can leave people outside the conflict 🙂
[2013/12/03 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why is +war+ about killing humans?
[2013/12/03 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s about control.
[2013/12/03 16:24]  Selene Ambrose: Then humans are just targets for terrorists.
[2013/12/03 16:24]  ArtCrash Exonar: War is definitely about kiling humans.
[2013/12/03 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: See how Germany won the economic war — without blood this time 🙂
[2013/12/03 16:25]  izze Auster: and japan
[2013/12/03 16:25]  ArtCrash Exonar: Soon China
[2013/12/03 16:25]  Second Life: Zel Rai (zel.ming) is offline.
[2013/12/03 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Japan had a few setbacks, sure, but they did a great job as well. China next, indeed
[2013/12/03 16:25]  Tikor: There are cyberwars today – perhaps we can move these conflicts of control entirely virtual. Still disruptive, but not bloody.
[2013/12/03 16:25]  izze Auster: china already owns america
[2013/12/03 16:25]  ArtCrash Exonar: There aren’t countries anymore only banks and corporations.
[2013/12/03 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: War is about economic control, no matter what people say 😉
[2013/12/03 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, cyberwars are a great example.
[2013/12/03 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: Remember that Star Trek episode in which two countries each had a supercomputer which would play a virtual war against the other, and this would produce a death toll and there would be a lottery and if your number came up you had to go to the incinerator along with enough other people to make up the death toll?
[2013/12/03 16:26]  Second Life: Kimiko Yiyuan is offline.
[2013/12/03 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: we live in the cyberpunk dystopia, just like the cyberpunk authors predicted 🙂
[2013/12/03 16:26]  ArtCrash Exonar: I missed that one Extie
[2013/12/03 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gah, I never saw that episode, Extie
[2013/12/03 16:26]  Tikor: I don’t recall that one, Extie. Is it an original series?
[2013/12/03 16:26]  Zobeid Zuma: Yes, I remember that one.
[2013/12/03 16:26]  izze Auster: wonder when the first bank will be robbed by a drone with machine guns attached
[2013/12/03 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds terrible
[2013/12/03 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes.
[2013/12/03 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: izze: aye, that is definitely an issue
[2013/12/03 16:26]  Zobeid Zuma: Sort of like virtual neutron bombs.
[2013/12/03 16:26]  Ivy Sunkiller: that sounds rather extreme, they should take the citizens of one nation equal to the toll and make them slaves to the other nation
[2013/12/03 16:27]  Extropia DaSilva: I only watch the original. Everything else is a bit rubbish.
[2013/12/03 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: but banks will have security drones to avoid intruder drones 🙂
[2013/12/03 16:27]  Selene Ambrose: It would be easier to rob bitcoins.
[2013/12/03 16:27]  Zobeid Zuma: TNG is out in high-def now, though! It looks 100% better than before.
[2013/12/03 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway…. I need to leave earlier today….
[2013/12/03 16:27]  ArtCrash Exonar: Interesting Zo. Is the show really dated now?
[2013/12/03 16:27]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh?
[2013/12/03 16:27]  Second Life: Lucius Diller is offline.
[2013/12/03 16:28]  ArtCrash Exonar: oh Gwyn
[2013/12/03 16:28]  Zobeid Zuma: No, it looks like it was filmed yesterday.
[2013/12/03 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m going to miss the poem!!! arrrgh
[2013/12/03 16:28]  Extropia DaSilva: I could do it now…
[2013/12/03 16:28]  Zobeid Zuma: Except for the screen aspect ratio, I mean. :/
[2013/12/03 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll watch for it on Extie’s blog hehe
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