THINKERS APRIL 30 2013: PHILIP ROSEDALE’S ‘HIGH FIDELITY’.

Extropia DaSilva: Welcome to Thinkers!
[2013/04/30 15:30]  Second Life: Khannea Suntzu is offline.
[2013/04/30 15:30]  Extropia DaSilva: Today the topic is..
[2013/04/30 15:30]  Extropia DaSilva: Philip Rosedale is building a new virtual world. What must it do to surpass Second Life?
[2013/04/30 15:30]  ArtCrash Exonar: he is?
[2013/04/30 15:30]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes.
[2013/04/30 15:30]  Extropia DaSilva: Sounds pretty ambitious too.
[2013/04/30 15:30]  Zobeid Zuma: The voxel/cubist thing?
[2013/04/30 15:30]  McCapp: Will he be competing with SL?
[2013/04/30 15:30]  Extropia DaSilva: That would be it.
[2013/04/30 15:31]  Cryptic Hak: Bunch of angel investors, including Google.
[2013/04/30 15:31]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): i would guess it depends on what you mean by “surpass”
[2013/04/30 15:31]  Extropia DaSilva: I believe so, yes.
[2013/04/30 15:31]  ArtCrash Exonar: It must be available to have large numbers of avatars in the same place without ruining the experience. That is number one.
[2013/04/30 15:31]  Second Life: Gwyneth Llewelyn is online.
[2013/04/30 15:31]  McCapp: Interesting
[2013/04/30 15:31]  Zobeid Zuma: Hii Gwyn!
[2013/04/30 15:31]  Extropia DaSilva: Hiya Gwyn, we just got started..
[2013/04/30 15:31]  Second Life: luisa (luisa.bourgoin) is online.
[2013/04/30 15:31]  Extropia DaSilva: You want the topic?
[2013/04/30 15:31]  ArtCrash Exonar: So it has to be Scalable.
[2013/04/30 15:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right! hehe
[2013/04/30 15:31]  Extropia DaSilva: Philip Rosedale is building a new virtual world. What must it do to surpass Second Life?
[2013/04/30 15:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oooh right.
[2013/04/30 15:32]  ArtCrash Exonar: Scalability.
[2013/04/30 15:32]  Extropia DaSilva: BTW does anyone have a link to his new company’s website, the one building this new online world?
[2013/04/30 15:32]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): i would want an easy to use User interface
[2013/04/30 15:32]  McCapp: I was thinking about having all waters be served, so that we could ride around on cruise ships, but the virtual reality thing kind of trumps that.
[2013/04/30 15:33]  Cryptic Hak: Well, one might look into adopting a peer-to-peer architecture for texture/polygon dsistribution for one….instead of the client/server approach taken by LL…though in itself this would be fraught with many other gotchas.
[2013/04/30 15:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: http://highfidelity.io/
[2013/04/30 15:33]  Zobeid Zuma: It has to be like Facebook! Because Facebook! 😛
[2013/04/30 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: Ah, well done Gwyn:)
[2013/04/30 15:33]  hi 【ツ】
[2013/04/30 15:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is a tough question. It’s like saying. “Chine is planning to do democracy. What should they do so that they don’t fall in the same pitfalls than existing democracies?” 🙂
[2013/04/30 15:33]  Second Life: Fiona Scorfield is offline.
[2013/04/30 15:33]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): is a good question though
[2013/04/30 15:33]  Cryptic Hak: And they should /definitely/ adopt last names.
[2013/04/30 15:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2013/04/30 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: The point about an easy user interface is a good one, I think.
[2013/04/30 15:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would agree with that… one of about 12,300 points that it needs to address.
[2013/04/30 15:34]  Second Life: Khannea Suntzu is online.
[2013/04/30 15:34]  Zobeid Zuma: I know what I’d be trying to do, but that’s almost certainly very different from anything he/they will try to do. :/
[2013/04/30 15:34]  Cryptic Hak: Obviously adoption on mobile devices (tablets/handhelds) is a requirement.
[2013/04/30 15:34]  ArtCrash Exonar: So by ‘collective cloud’ does he mean everyones computing power would be used for the networking?
[2013/04/30 15:34]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): ah , but are all the points equally importnat
[2013/04/30 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: But in SL you can do so much so it is maybe hard to make one user interface that can cover all aspects of SL?
[2013/04/30 15:35]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): Yes Art
[2013/04/30 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The main issue here is that we cannot say what things Philip needs to do to please a MILLION users. The best that we can answer is: “what would me give up Second Life for High Fidelity?”
[2013/04/30 15:35]  Zobeid Zuma: SL’s user interface could be improved with an axe, if LL ever made a serious effort to.
[2013/04/30 15:35]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): I think he is not trying to make a Second Life 2
[2013/04/30 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes Gwyn, THat could be the question that started this whole discussion, in fact.
[2013/04/30 15:36]  Zobeid Zuma: If he isn’t, then what?
[2013/04/30 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I doubt it, Zo. We have had TPVs for 6 years now. Except for two, they all use LL’s UI
[2013/04/30 15:36]  Cryptic Hak: The very fact that they are starting from scratch without having to support such a monolithic codebase going forward is a huge advantage in intself.
[2013/04/30 15:36]  Khannea Suntzu: Does SL still make LL money?
[2013/04/30 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Khannea: about US$65M profit annually
[2013/04/30 15:36]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): he wanted SL to be like the virtual world in Snow Crash
[2013/04/30 15:36]  Khannea Suntzu: Gewyn how serious are LL land woes?
[2013/04/30 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, serious in a decade.
[2013/04/30 15:36]  Zobeid Zuma: Gwyn, the inventory window alone is a disaster zone, and it hasn’t changed in any substantial way since v1.00. Or earlier.
[2013/04/30 15:36]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): that it was far off was some kind of a dissapointment
[2013/04/30 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not in the short.term.
[2013/04/30 15:36]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): so this one will not be like SL at all
[2013/04/30 15:36]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): outstanding Charlotte
[2013/04/30 15:36]  Khannea Suntzu: Botgirl claims the land issues for LL are severe.
[2013/04/30 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Charlotte.
[2013/04/30 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: How can it not be like SL, at least in some respects?
[2013/04/30 15:37]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): it will be a virtual space where we will not be an avatar but ourselves
[2013/04/30 15:37]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): with hardware that reads our expressions so that communication becomes real
[2013/04/30 15:37]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): [15:35] ღ Chαrlσttє ღ: I think he is not trying to make a Second Life 2
 ….. so what is he trying to make????
[2013/04/30 15:37]  Khannea Suntzu: If I can be “myself” as I want to be, I’ll use it.
[2013/04/30 15:37]  ArtCrash Exonar: Well the reason he is going back to square one is that SL has some major problems. Too much streaming of resources makes things go slower and there is no ability to ..say… have a large concert with a thousand people attending.
[2013/04/30 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I haven’t read her latest articles, Khannea, but she might be right in a point: relying the whole company’s profit on the tier structure is indeed a problem.
[2013/04/30 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: Would it be possible to have an online world, populated by avatars, and it NOT bare any resemblance at all to SL?
[2013/04/30 15:38]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): a virtual world that is a mirror of our real lives
[2013/04/30 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh well. What does that mean?
[2013/04/30 15:38]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): yes
[2013/04/30 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, Extie, I think it’s possible
[2013/04/30 15:38]  Zobeid Zuma: We’ve had such worlds in the past, Extie. Except they were text-based, not graphical.
[2013/04/30 15:38]  Khannea Suntzu: I am not interested in being compressed in MY RL shape.
[2013/04/30 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: Ok…how?
[2013/04/30 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Zo 😀
[2013/04/30 15:38]  Khannea Suntzu: If thats the prerequisite I am not interested.
[2013/04/30 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: Then thet were not like SL, Zo.
[2013/04/30 15:38]  Sorcs Nolan: if the other VW is plain, just empty-ish spaces for avatars to hang out in…?
[2013/04/30 15:38]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): But many companies would be totally interested Khannea that you show up as the real you
[2013/04/30 15:39]  ArtCrash Exonar: yes, if you could make the profits from the commerce instead of land rental, you could attract far more people.
[2013/04/30 15:39]  Zobeid Zuma: That’s what you asked for, wasn’t it?
[2013/04/30 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me nods @ teh wisdom of Art
[2013/04/30 15:39]  ArtCrash Exonar: The big success of SL has been the virtual currency.
[2013/04/30 15:39]  Extropia DaSilva: Would you want a land-rent system in this new world, or some other scheme?
[2013/04/30 15:40]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): so…. the objective is to make profits? im still trying to understand what it is he wants to do…..
[2013/04/30 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The “how” is tricky. VWs don’t exist in a vacuum. SL looks like ActiveWorlds which looks like 3D games which look like 3D modelling tools…
[2013/04/30 15:40]  McCapp: I would like to pay once a year and be done with it.
[2013/04/30 15:40]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): raising Tier (or, similar: drop educational discounts) might not necessarily raise profit; people reduce their landmass to stay on cost levels
[2013/04/30 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: some other scheme 😀
[2013/04/30 15:40]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): so like taxes…..
[2013/04/30 15:40]  Extropia DaSilva: I like to think he has a grander goal in mind beyond mere profit.
[2013/04/30 15:40]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): it is very visionary Harry and it won’t be with land and sims rentals
[2013/04/30 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d be fine with a subscription-based service
[2013/04/30 15:40]  ArtCrash Exonar: I wonder if by community cloud computing he means your land would reside on your own computer?
[2013/04/30 15:41]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): so what might his grander goal be???
[2013/04/30 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Some people have thought it would be that, yes, Art — like OpenCroquet
[2013/04/30 15:41]  Second Life: Khannea Suntzu is offline.
[2013/04/30 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Harry: he does have a humanitarian approach — he has this idea that VWs can do something for humankind
[2013/04/30 15:41]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): you would make “credits” with your resources participating
[2013/04/30 15:41]  McCapp: That would solve a lot of problems, Art. Everyone would have to own a separate parcel of land, though.
[2013/04/30 15:41]  ArtCrash Exonar: I sure Philip’s grander goal is to make VR worlds that can be adopted universally for RL commerce and therefore get huge.
[2013/04/30 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If he can make money out of that as well,even better
[2013/04/30 15:41]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): well Gwyneth it’s about him
[2013/04/30 15:42]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): not about being great for mankind
[2013/04/30 15:42]  Extropia DaSilva: Maybe he wants to model a fourth-generation civilization, in order to prepare us for the radical changes such an advanced, high-tec society would have on our lives?
[2013/04/30 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: have you ever talked to Philip, Charlotte? ㋡
[2013/04/30 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wellllll
[2013/04/30 15:42]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): I know him very well 【ツ】
[2013/04/30 15:42]  Extropia DaSilva: It is what I would do, if I were him (no, my primary is not)
[2013/04/30 15:42]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): yes many times
[2013/04/30 15:42]  ArtCrash Exonar: So you are cynical about his motives charlotte?
[2013/04/30 15:43]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): no not at all
[2013/04/30 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Okies 🙂 hehe — in that case I’ll believe you
[2013/04/30 15:43]  Zobeid Zuma: I am not terribly imaginative. I’m not visionary. I only want things I’m already familiar with. However… I am familiar with some things that SL isn’t delivering.
[2013/04/30 15:43]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): does anyone here really know what this is all about? Im hearing a lot of speculation….
[2013/04/30 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: From my (few and scattered) talks with Phillip, I got a different idea
[2013/04/30 15:43]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): If you follow what Phil has done after SL
[2013/04/30 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Harry: all we know is what is at http://highfidelity.io/ The rest is speculation
[2013/04/30 15:43]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): another great intiative
[2013/04/30 15:43]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): first the Lovemachine
[2013/04/30 15:43]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): thankyou, ill tryh and get caught up
[2013/04/30 15:44]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): but when it comes to execute it it’s not happening
[2013/04/30 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: It is hard to say Harry. The Website has no info save for some pretty far-out claims of what the online world is going to achieve.
[2013/04/30 15:44]  Zobeid Zuma: What kind of claims? (Got a link?)
[2013/04/30 15:44]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): oh! another Jobs Company … the webpages has “Jobs | Company” on the right window border
[2013/04/30 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: Gwyn has a link..
[2013/04/30 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: What I want to know is..what would you hope and expect it to be like?
[2013/04/30 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: Scroll up, you should see it.
[2013/04/30 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: http://highfidelity.io/
[2013/04/30 15:44]  Second Life: Unnatural Magic is offline.
[2013/04/30 15:45]  ArtCrash Exonar: This is the key graph IMO: A new kind of cloud. We’re building a coordination system enabling millions of people to contribute their devices and share them to simulate the virtual world.
 If we can successfully build this collective cloud, we think we can enable audience sizes for shared experiences that are orders of magnitude larger than what is possible today.
[2013/04/30 15:45]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): and all as yourself
[2013/04/30 15:45]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): Imagine a facebook in 3d, where your webcam reads all your expressions and movements, so you don’t type, but do what your avatar does in rl
[2013/04/30 15:45]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): even building
[2013/04/30 15:45]  Extropia DaSilva: I do know that one is your avatar will be controlled by some kind of Kinect-style interface. You know, you move, it copies your movement. Facial expressions, the lot.
[2013/04/30 15:45]  Zobeid Zuma: It’s all about the strategy…
[2013/04/30 15:46]  Zobeid Zuma: The technology is wide open, it’s not so much about what is possible, it’s about what is the goal?
[2013/04/30 15:46]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): an extension of your rl
[2013/04/30 15:46]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): the goal is to finally make the web 3.0
[2013/04/30 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m even more cynic, Zo 🙂 For me it’s about the *business model*.
[2013/04/30 15:46]  Cryptic Hak: Well, lets just make an assumption that it will be a 3d world where you can interact with other avatars
[2013/04/30 15:46]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): but don’t see it as a world
[2013/04/30 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Cryptic
[2013/04/30 15:46]  Zobeid Zuma: If “immersiveness” is the goal, then it’s definitely possible to do better than SL. SL has actually moved *away* from immersiveness as a strategy.
[2013/04/30 15:46]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): or as a game
[2013/04/30 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: I think it mentions a thousand avatars in a sim at one time, no lag. But I am not entirely sure he claims such a thing.
[2013/04/30 15:46]  Cryptic Hak: And it will have more refined features than what currently exists.
[2013/04/30 15:46]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): or even a platform
[2013/04/30 15:47]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): see it as extension of our rl
[2013/04/30 15:47]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): the web page also is looking for ppl not afraid of C…. that in itself is scary…. they already have a solution,,,,, just looking for implementers…
[2013/04/30 15:47]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): yes
[2013/04/30 15:47]  Cryptic Hak: and the sims will be distributed to everyone’s boxes.
[2013/04/30 15:47]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): no sims
[2013/04/30 15:47]  Cryptic Hak: Does it say that on his site ?
[2013/04/30 15:47]  Zobeid Zuma: What is Wikipedia’s business model?
[2013/04/30 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No sims would be necessary; they might use OpenCroquet’s approach
[2013/04/30 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: raising funds!
[2013/04/30 15:47]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): it will be awesome if they can get it to work
[2013/04/30 15:47]  ArtCrash Exonar: I’m thinking he was inspired by BitTorrent
[2013/04/30 15:47]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): a distributed Grid would have different experienceable performance, depending on ones location
[2013/04/30 15:47]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): the funds are already in place
[2013/04/30 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Did you donate this year, Zo? 🙂 I do it every year
[2013/04/30 15:48]  Zobeid Zuma: I do!
[2013/04/30 15:48]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): it will be something totally awesome new 【ツ】
[2013/04/30 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So maybe he wants a donation-based virtual worlds
[2013/04/30 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: WHy not? If it runs on people’s computers…
[2013/04/30 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *world
[2013/04/30 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: luisa: aha. That’s the crux of the issue!
[2013/04/30 15:48]  Zobeid Zuma: hmmm….
[2013/04/30 15:48]  Cryptic Hak: But, I would think that there would still be some process(es) running somewhere, which together would be used to simulate the environment where the avatars interact. That’s what I meant by ‘sim’
[2013/04/30 15:48]  ArtCrash Exonar: I’m guessing he wants everyone’s home computer to work as a server in the way that Bit Torrent does networking.
[2013/04/30 15:49]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): oh i like donation based….. its the answer to my taxless world…. that no one has yet gleaned on to….
[2013/04/30 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s not strictly *necessary*, Cryptic
[2013/04/30 15:49]  Zobeid Zuma: They’d still have some costs, though. And a need to show some returns, no matter how cheap the “hosting” is.
[2013/04/30 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, hiring programmers is expensive
[2013/04/30 15:49]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): if participants power it, there will be 1) more consuming avis 2) more sim infrastructure supporting avis; there needs to be some form of economic value flowing between these two potentials
[2013/04/30 15:49]  Cryptic Hak: its not an original idea….the peer-to-peer thing….I read at least one paper proposing it years ago.
[2013/04/30 15:49]  ArtCrash Exonar: Looks like he is bothered by latency too. Lag free would indeed be a great leap.
[2013/04/30 15:49]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): ha ha ha ha
[2013/04/30 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cryptic: look for OpenCroquet 🙂 it’s a peer-to-peer VW…. no central servers, no ‘sims’, no regions, nothing whatsoever
[2013/04/30 15:50]  Cryptic Hak: Yeah, I looked at open croquet long ago
[2013/04/30 15:50]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): proposing and doing are quite different…. 😦
[2013/04/30 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: Is the world ready for a cloud-based online world? Do we not need like Google Fibre kind of speeds (100 gigabit+ per second) for that? I know OnLive failed because most people’s broadband was too slow.
[2013/04/30 15:50]  ArtCrash Exonar: Interesting GWyn. I need to check that out.
[2013/04/30 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right.
[2013/04/30 15:50]  Zobeid Zuma: I liked the way the MUCKs worked, that I used to hang out on. However, that approach wouldn’t scale. Not to thousands or tens-of-thousands (or more?) users.
[2013/04/30 15:50]  Cryptic Hak: it appeared to be vaporware at the time…ever run it ?
[2013/04/30 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nah, it’s NOT interesting, except from an academic perspective: how to maintain a scene in sync with many participants
[2013/04/30 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, several times, Cryptic. It’s not worth the time spent downloading it 🙂
[2013/04/30 15:51]  Cryptic Hak: haha 🙂 that’s what I figured.
[2013/04/30 15:51]  Cryptic Hak: something like that needs critical mass before it becomes usable.
[2013/04/30 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sure I wrote an article or two about why peer-to-peer VWs will never work out (I used pretty much luisa’s argument)
[2013/04/30 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: what was Luisa;s argument, again?
[2013/04/30 15:51]  ArtCrash Exonar: Should I trust a download from opencroquet.org?
[2013/04/30 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Imagine that Facebook would run on your desktop computer.
[2013/04/30 15:52]  Cryptic Hak: well, think diaspora.
[2013/04/30 15:54]  Second Life: Strix the naked DJ (strix6) is online.
[2013/04/30 15:54]  Second Life: Eggy Lippmann is online.
[2013/04/30 15:54]  Second Life: luisa (luisa.bourgoin) is online.
[2013/04/30 15:54]  Second Life: Ari (arisia.vita) is online.
[2013/04/30 15:54]  Second Life: ArtCrash Exonar is online.
[2013/04/30 15:54]  Second Life: Barbie (isobela.flute) is online.
[2013/04/30 15:54]  Second Life: Peter Stindberg is online.
[2013/04/30 15:54]  Second Life: ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath) is online.
[2013/04/30 15:54]  Confident AO – Preloaded ZHAO II: 5% memory free
[2013/04/30 15:54]  Extropia’s Antenna: Touch me for a control menu
[2013/04/30 15:54]  Second Life: Magic Pathfinder (any1.gynoid) is online.
[2013/04/30 15:54]  Second Life: Naring’nari (joey.aboma) is online.
[2013/04/30 15:54]  Second Life: Sorcs Nolan is online.
[2013/04/30 15:54]  Second Life: Zobeid Zuma is online.
[2013/04/30 15:54]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): and because of his past he can poke nice amounts of money together and the money is in place, but how it will develop we don’t know
[2013/04/30 15:54]  Zobeid Zuma: /me wants Google Fiber…
[2013/04/30 15:54]  Ari (arisia.vita): wb love
[2013/04/30 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Soooo unless Philip is able to imagine a tech solution, where the peer-to-peer communication just requires a few bytes per second…
[2013/04/30 15:55]  Second Life: Gwyneth Llewelyn is online.
[2013/04/30 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Extie!
[2013/04/30 15:55]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): if I got my precious assets stored distributedacross several p2p harddiscs, I would like to see reliable encryption mechanics for protecting code source
[2013/04/30 15:55]  Zobeid Zuma: Of course we had such a solution on the MUCKs, Gwyn. Just do everything with ASCII text!
[2013/04/30 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (not to mention permission systems!)
[2013/04/30 15:55]  Extropia DaSilva: Thanks. In PHil’s new VR world there will be NO crashing. He promises.
[2013/04/30 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: YES 🙂
[2013/04/30 15:55]  Cryptic Hak: Yeah, it would be next to impossible to do.
[2013/04/30 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh Extie
[2013/04/30 15:56]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): that is the thing about LL and Phil, they lost connection with what people in online worlds want long time ago
[2013/04/30 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now that’s another story!
[2013/04/30 15:56]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): a good example of that is how passionate a group of people works on a viewer like the firestorm guys
[2013/04/30 15:56]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): build by people who are in world
[2013/04/30 15:56]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): and then LL viewer
[2013/04/30 15:56]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): build by people who never log in SL
[2013/04/30 15:57]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): SL has phases where no crashes are possible, too (but no logins either)
[2013/04/30 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because one thing is the tech. Ok, so he might have come up with a way to solve how to send GBytes of information across thousands of users without a central server. That, in itself, would be a major achievement. The other thing is… what would those people *do*?
[2013/04/30 15:57]  Extropia DaSilva: Not surprised, if they have to use the Linden viewer.
[2013/04/30 15:57]  ArtCrash Exonar: but then again the LL employees are doing the base code of EVERY viewer.
[2013/04/30 15:57]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): Yes but they have no clue what we want
[2013/04/30 15:57]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): I love to build
[2013/04/30 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Every viewer except that Android thingy and Radegast 😀
[2013/04/30 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, and the few prototypes of web-based viewers
[2013/04/30 15:57]  Zobeid Zuma: Firestorm has many nice refinements over the LL viewer, but no large advances beyond it.
[2013/04/30 15:58]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): after building in firestorm and then try with LL viewer its like someone tooks away my doos of crayons and gave me a wooden stick
[2013/04/30 15:58]  Cryptic Hak: Well, I think the key is to make it open and flexible enough that we can all do what we want to do in it.
[2013/04/30 15:58]  Extropia DaSilva: What does the populace of SL want, Charlotte?
[2013/04/30 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The rest of the TPVs are 99.99999% LL code
[2013/04/30 15:58]  Cryptic Hak: Lots of strip clubs
[2013/04/30 15:58]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): I don’t know Extropia I can only speak for myself
[2013/04/30 15:58]  Extropia DaSilva: Hah!
[2013/04/30 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh. At least 20% of the population wants that, yes 🙂
[2013/04/30 15:58]  Cryptic Hak: haha
[2013/04/30 15:58]  Extropia DaSilva: Ok…what do you want? What would entice you from SL TO any other online world?
[2013/04/30 15:58]  ArtCrash Exonar: I want to keep my old friends from going away…..
[2013/04/30 15:59]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): But Gwyneth you are here long time so you know that much of the LL viewer is open source code tinkered on by many unpaid scripters
[2013/04/30 15:59]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): and that from early days
[2013/04/30 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Charlotte: and I believe that’s the main issue. We can only speak for ourselves; and so does Phillip. So he’ll do a VW that *he* will enjoy.
[2013/04/30 15:59]  Zobeid Zuma: /me watches the hand-holding video and comes away unimpressed….
[2013/04/30 15:59]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): it is *difficult* to conquer SL with another VR, as in “just another”
[2013/04/30 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: Art, my friends are the number one killer app of SL. They are far and away the top reason I continue to come here.
[2013/04/30 15:59]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): remember when scripters had to fix their shit?
[2013/04/30 15:59]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): it is the reason why they went open source even all their residents objected
[2013/04/30 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Almost all the code is open source, except for the Havok bit, but… that didn’t help things os much as we expected
[2013/04/30 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *as
[2013/04/30 16:00]  Second Life: Barbie (isobela.flute) is offline.
[2013/04/30 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: luisa: so my big question will always be: how will we be able to import all content from SL into HF? 🙂
[2013/04/30 16:00]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): it won’t be possible
[2013/04/30 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree.
[2013/04/30 16:00]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): as it will work on a different system
[2013/04/30 16:01]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): content, and people. ideally there would be a road between both worlds
[2013/04/30 16:01]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think of why my RL friends aren’t in SL. Three major reasons 1)They don’t have the hardware or network 2) The learning curve is too steep 3) they would have no idea what to do when they got here.
[2013/04/30 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: At best, you might export the 3D models…. but hardly the scripts
[2013/04/30 16:01]  Extropia DaSilva: Pretty much, Art.
[2013/04/30 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Art, HF is being designed for the hardware of 2020 🙂
[2013/04/30 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: SO 1 is out.
[2013/04/30 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And it might need sophisticated haptic devices.
[2013/04/30 16:01]  Extropia DaSilva: Why is it that some do not care about not knowing what to do?
[2013/04/30 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So 2 is out
[2013/04/30 16:01]  Cryptic Hak: Well, lots of people prolly come to SL and say “Holy shit, what’s with all the strip clubs?” and never log on it agian.
[2013/04/30 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Phillip is behind it, so 3 is out two.
[2013/04/30 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *out too
[2013/04/30 16:02]  Extropia DaSilva: I hardly ever see a strip club.
[2013/04/30 16:02]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): it will not be pixels but voxels
[2013/04/30 16:02]  ArtCrash Exonar: Extie, I’m full onboard with Gwyn’s ‘self entertainer’ reasoning on who is in SL.
[2013/04/30 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that VWs are like airplanes: we expect them to be as easy to use as a bicycle so that everybody can enjoy flying on their own plane.
[2013/04/30 16:02]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): and will we visit strip clubs with our real face?
[2013/04/30 16:02]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): I won’t 【ツ】
[2013/04/30 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha neither would I
[2013/04/30 16:03]  Extropia DaSilva: As a digital person this IS my real face.
[2013/04/30 16:03]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): I will log in there to be myself
[2013/04/30 16:03]  Zobeid Zuma: Heheh… I remember that great episode of Futurama where they logged into the internet of the year 3000. It was *so* much like SL. That episode was at least twice as funny for any SL user. 🙂
[2013/04/30 16:03]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): and then log in good old sl to do some nasty stuff
[2013/04/30 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Charlotte
[2013/04/30 16:03]  Cryptic Hak: ROFL
[2013/04/30 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which of those two is your “real self” then? 🙂
[2013/04/30 16:03]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think in general people prefer passive entertainment to active entertainment…..
[2013/04/30 16:03]  Second Life: Peter Stindberg is offline.
[2013/04/30 16:04]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): passive entertainment?
[2013/04/30 16:04]  Cryptic Hak: Though I think that is changing, Art.
[2013/04/30 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, certainly not all peopel! Just 99% of them 😀
[2013/04/30 16:04]  McCapp: I love to build more than anything!
[2013/04/30 16:04]  Extropia DaSilva: 🙂
[2013/04/30 16:04]  Cryptic Hak: Like TV and movies versus stuff where you make things or interact in some way ?
[2013/04/30 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: … more than *anything*? mmmh….
[2013/04/30 16:04]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): ahhhh,,,,,,
[2013/04/30 16:04]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): I don’t know how it is with everybody else but the attraction in sl for me is the fact that I can do some stuff here I would never do in rl without anyone knowing
[2013/04/30 16:04]  ArtCrash Exonar: Passive entertainement is sitting down and watching something with no interaction.
[2013/04/30 16:04]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): “in general” is mere statistics. people have moods, phasing between positions
[2013/04/30 16:04]  Extropia DaSilva: So, definitely this High Fidelity should be built by its own residents?
[2013/04/30 16:04]  Zobeid Zuma: Or MMOGs where you interact, but it’s all in a very structured-and-guided way.
[2013/04/30 16:04]  Cryptic Hak: the rise of gaming is an argument against that idea tho.
[2013/04/30 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: That’s also a good question. Does the website say it will have user-generated content? 🙂
[2013/04/30 16:05]  ArtCrash Exonar: I wonder if research has been done to identify the personality types of gamers versus non gamers?
[2013/04/30 16:05]  Extropia DaSilva: I do not think so. But it is a given, surely?
[2013/04/30 16:05]  McCapp: Okay, Gwyneth, more than almost anything.
[2013/04/30 16:05]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): not directly: from people involved, I see “yes it contains user-generated stuff”
[2013/04/30 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *chuckles* @ McCapp
[2013/04/30 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, my question was not so stupid.
[2013/04/30 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: You CAN do zero-lag VWs WITHOUT user-generated content.
[2013/04/30 16:06]  Zobeid Zuma: It may contain “user generated content” like Blue Mars, where only the users who’ve jumped through lots of hoops can create anything.
[2013/04/30 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: In fact, pretty much all MMORPGs work like that 🙂
[2013/04/30 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, Zo. That would work, yes
[2013/04/30 16:06]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): not without huuge initial downloads; I rather take on the lag
[2013/04/30 16:07]  Cryptic Hak: Well, thing is, it wasnt just the tech that made SL the ‘success’ it is now….it is the communities that grew within it.
[2013/04/30 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: luisa: but for those huge initial downloads… you might be using BitTorrent… 🙂
[2013/04/30 16:07]  ArtCrash Exonar: I’ve always thought that SL would be much better if I was able to permanently cache on my computer places I go to regularly.
[2013/04/30 16:07]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): Zob, the hoops for developers is a no-go. Broke Blue Mars’ neck in the end
[2013/04/30 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cryptic: hear,hear
[2013/04/30 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: It says we’re building a new virtual world…blah blah..conributed by end-users…does that mean user-generated content?
[2013/04/30 16:07]  Cryptic Hak: And so I doubt that would be replicated with this latest experiment, tbh
[2013/04/30 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: I read it as “the code is being contributed by end-users” but I might be biased…
[2013/04/30 16:08]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): you guys know 123 catch?
[2013/04/30 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No…
[2013/04/30 16:08]  Cryptic Hak: it already has an elitist feel to it , at least that is my impression…
[2013/04/30 16:08]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): catch 22 ?
[2013/04/30 16:08]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): you take a picture and convert it online to a file usuable for maya or any 3d program
[2013/04/30 16:08]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): no
[2013/04/30 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cryptic: aye, I agree. But perhaps SL did have that elitist feel in 2002….
[2013/04/30 16:08]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): its from autodesk 123d catch
[2013/04/30 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: ‘Imagine that world extending visibly to vanishing points like our world…enabling you to see your house, your neighbourhood, distant mountains, other planets in the sky’….
[2013/04/30 16:09]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): so you can turn any pic into a 3d object online
[2013/04/30 16:09]  Zobeid Zuma: It would have been before my time, Gwyn…
[2013/04/30 16:09]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): thats how they see the content of the new virtual world
[2013/04/30 16:09]  Cryptic Hak: Maybe it did…I wasnt here in 2002…but I would be there was more of a feel of playfulness and experimentation…versus hype-generation.
[2013/04/30 16:09]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): so don’t think sl
[2013/04/30 16:09]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): take a huge leap forward
[2013/04/30 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, interesting… stereometrics, or whatever its called? It’s a rather advanced technology
[2013/04/30 16:09]  ArtCrash Exonar: Has Cloud Party failed yet?
[2013/04/30 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nah Art
[2013/04/30 16:09]  Cryptic Hak: What ever happened to opensim ?
[2013/04/30 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: How so, Cryptic?
[2013/04/30 16:09]  ArtCrash Exonar: Opensims are very active these days
[2013/04/30 16:09]  Extropia DaSilva: ;audience sizes for shares experiences orders of magnitude larger than what is possible today’…
[2013/04/30 16:10]  Cryptic Hak: how so what Gwyn ?
[2013/04/30 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What do you mean, “what ever happened to opensim”?
[2013/04/30 16:10]  Cryptic Hak: I dunno, I havent been around in a few years
[2013/04/30 16:10]  Extropia DaSilva: …that is about it for the claims of what High-Fi will achieve:)
[2013/04/30 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh! Right….
[2013/04/30 16:10]  Cryptic Hak: I was just wondering if it was still around
[2013/04/30 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Still around? lol
[2013/04/30 16:10]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): OpenSims catched on in specific areas, where self hosting is an option. In educational, some universities got their local sim installation
[2013/04/30 16:10]  ArtCrash Exonar: There are many Open Sim worlds now.
[2013/04/30 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s HUGE, Cryptic — in landmass, it’s bigger than SL
[2013/04/30 16:10]  Cryptic Hak: what’s the scripting like in it, the physics ?
[2013/04/30 16:11]  Cryptic Hak: is it still written in C# ?
[2013/04/30 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: In academic research, there are now at least FIVE academic journals just reviewing research done in OpenSim
[2013/04/30 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, still C#
[2013/04/30 16:11]  Cryptic Hak: ick
[2013/04/30 16:11]  ArtCrash Exonar: InWorldz just got physics a few months ago, though I don’t know the specifics.
[2013/04/30 16:11]  Zobeid Zuma: oif
[2013/04/30 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and likely to remain that way, except for the central servers
[2013/04/30 16:11]  Cryptic Hak: I’ll have to look it up, thanks for the info
[2013/04/30 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: You mean Havok physics, Art? Because OpenSim has physics built-in
[2013/04/30 16:12]  Zobeid Zuma: Let’s do the next virtual world in COBOL! o.O
[2013/04/30 16:12]  Cryptic Hak: or Java, the new Cobol.
[2013/04/30 16:12]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): well the guy says he likes assembler….
[2013/04/30 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you can get a module in COBOL to open sockets, then it should work 😀
[2013/04/30 16:12]  Cryptic Hak: or a copy of java…say like C#
[2013/04/30 16:12]  Zobeid Zuma: I thought C++ was the new COBOL….
[2013/04/30 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hhehe
[2013/04/30 16:12]  ArtCrash Exonar: Like I said, I don’t know the spedifics, but for a long time there was no physics in InWorldz and now there is and they made a big deal about its introduction.
[2013/04/30 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah!
[2013/04/30 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Interesting.
[2013/04/30 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think 🙂 lol
[2013/04/30 16:12]  Sorcs Nolan: FORTRAN to the rescue? 😉
[2013/04/30 16:13]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): no one heard computer languages were obsolete???
[2013/04/30 16:13]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): toppic suggestion: language wars … bring your own nervguns
[2013/04/30 16:13]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): well SL didnt for sure
[2013/04/30 16:13]  ArtCrash Exonar: I refuse to recognize the word FORTRAN…… heh
[2013/04/30 16:13]  Cryptic Hak: I remember trying to edit terrain in OpenSim with it running on my desktop (client and server)…that was painful.
[2013/04/30 16:13]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): LL i meant of course
[2013/04/30 16:13]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): wow you guys are old….
[2013/04/30 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cryptic — take a look at Kitely (http://www.kitely.com) Cloud-based, on-demand sims. Launch Firefox, register with Facebook/Twitter, and in 5 minutes you can get your own sim, all 15.000 prims of it, COMPLETELY FREE.
[2013/04/30 16:13]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2013/04/30 16:13]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): old school i meant of course, no offense
[2013/04/30 16:13]  Cryptic Hak: omfg.
[2013/04/30 16:14]  Cryptic Hak: you TEASE me!
[2013/04/30 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No.
[2013/04/30 16:14]  Extropia DaSilva: I AM old. I am eight this year.
[2013/04/30 16:14]  Zobeid Zuma: I dunno. I feel intuitively that virtual worlds have a lot of untapped potential, certainly that SL has fulfilled, but I don’t have any idea how to get there from here.
[2013/04/30 16:14]  Zobeid Zuma: erg. That SL hasn’t fulfilled. 😛
[2013/04/30 16:14]  Extropia DaSilva: That is ancient, given that the average lifespan of an SL avvie is 5 minutes.
[2013/04/30 16:14]  Cryptic Hak: The teledildonics leaves a lot to be desired, so I hear.
[2013/04/30 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: I feel exactly the right way. At this stage, I just think this is a tiny niche market. But one that shuffles half a billion US$ around annually and has a million users, so it’s not to be frowned at.
[2013/04/30 16:15]  ArtCrash Exonar: SL developed a working economy. And they invented a microtransaction economy. Those are big things that will stay with us forever.
[2013/04/30 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: Depends on the device you use and the partner you use it with, Cryptic.
[2013/04/30 16:15]  Cryptic Hak: Haha
[2013/04/30 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: the irony is that the microeconomy was only possible because we have DRM protection on content…. amusing 🙂
[2013/04/30 16:16]  Zobeid Zuma: Art, that’s the part of SL that I object to the most! 😛
[2013/04/30 16:16]  ArtCrash Exonar: yes, interesting
[2013/04/30 16:16]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): so far not seen that L$ branched out on other markets
[2013/04/30 16:16]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): just inworld used
[2013/04/30 16:16]  Zobeid Zuma: I’m still waiting for someone to create a truly cooperative world without all the DRM.
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Second Life: Strix the naked DJ (strix6) is online.
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Second Life: ArtCrash Exonar is online.
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Extropia’s Antenna: Touch me for a control menu
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Confident AO – Preloaded ZHAO II: 5% memory free
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Second Life: ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath) is online.
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Second Life: Gwyneth Llewelyn is online.
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Second Life: Magic Pathfinder (any1.gynoid) is online.
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Second Life: Eggy Lippmann is online.
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Second Life: Naring’nari (joey.aboma) is online.
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Second Life: Sorcs Nolan is online.
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Second Life: luisa (luisa.bourgoin) is online.
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Second Life: Zobeid Zuma is online.
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Second Life: Unnatural Magic is online.
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Second Life: Ari (arisia.vita) is online.
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yeppers, Cryoptic 🙂
[2013/04/30 16:19]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): wb² Extie
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Ari (arisia.vita): wb love
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: eek, Ruth is back!
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought LL got rid of her? lol
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and wb Extie
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Extropia DaSilva: I am Ruthed?
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Extropia DaSilva: EEEEEEEEEEEEEK
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just for a second
[2013/04/30 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: you’re back to normal
[2013/04/30 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: I am not coming out until I am Me! I do not want to be Ruth!!
[2013/04/30 16:20]  Zobeid Zuma: Be respectful towards the holy Ruth, mother of all avs!
[2013/04/30 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[2013/04/30 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: 🙂
[2013/04/30 16:20]  Zobeid Zuma: Probably chosen while it was briefly in fashion, then they were stuck with it.
[2013/04/30 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: The least they could have done is make her pretty.
[2013/04/30 16:20]  ArtCrash Exonar: So I like that Philip is attempting something new, though I don’t expect much to come of it. I always respect those who do stuff and don’t just complain about stuff.
[2013/04/30 16:21]  Cryptic Hak: Yeah honestly I am not expecting much to come from it either.
[2013/04/30 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cryptic: mostly because they borrowed code from libOpenMetaverse… which was in C#… because it was easier to copy bits of the LL viewer code that way… long story hehe. BUT on OpenSim at least the asset servers and remaining central thingies can be run on pretty much anything. There are PHP solutions, for example (Simian)
[2013/04/30 16:21]  Cryptic Hak: right that was the progenitor of the copybot fiasco right ?
[2013/04/30 16:21]  Zobeid Zuma: The stuff they are experimenting with looks interesting, it looks like fun. If they can scam the dev money out of somebody, I don’t blame them too much. 🙂
[2013/04/30 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: But we should expect it to be better than SL, if only technically. I mean, Moore’s law has marched on since 2003 no?
[2013/04/30 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh, but just as a nasty side effect, yes, Cryptic
[2013/04/30 16:22]  Cryptic Hak: yep
[2013/04/30 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: Phillip is the major investor 😛 So I don’t think they need to “scam” many people
[2013/04/30 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I found it interesting that he hired Jeska.
[2013/04/30 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That somehow shows that he has an inkling that “community will be important” at some point.
[2013/04/30 16:22]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think no matter how bad we think things might be we have to admit that This VR experience in SL is definitely better than it was in 2008.
[2013/04/30 16:23]  Extropia DaSilva: Are the claims made for High-Def as, less, or more wild than Sl would have seemed in the year 2000?
[2013/04/30 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh YES, Art!
[2013/04/30 16:23]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): Nope Phil does not invest, its the same investors that did lovemachine and c&p that gave him 2.5kk for the new hf vw
[2013/04/30 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: far less wild IMHO
[2013/04/30 16:23]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): stability, and Mesh
[2013/04/30 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Really, Charlotte? Now that’s QUITE interesting 🙂
[2013/04/30 16:23]  Zobeid Zuma: Err? I’m not sure about that, Art. How are you meauring the “VR experience”?
[2013/04/30 16:23]  Zobeid Zuma: I’m still waiting on stability, though I admit it’s better than it used to be.
[2013/04/30 16:24]  ArtCrash Exonar: Windlight is a major step forward as is Mesh. And the networking is far better and loads far faster.
[2013/04/30 16:24]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): the ssb will be nice improvement too
[2013/04/30 16:24]  Zobeid Zuma: Windlight? How ironic. It was just last week that you convinced me to switch that off.
[2013/04/30 16:24]  Cryptic Hak: DRM for opensims, that would be the killer app.
[2013/04/30 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think there is no critical mass to get that stability, Zo. I mean, how many people use web servers? How many submit codes and patches to keep the Web stable? LL can’t compete with those hundreds of thousands of developers and never will…
[2013/04/30 16:25]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): what would make sl the top is righ click sex on other avatars like in the sims
[2013/04/30 16:25]  Cryptic Hak: VR itunes lock-in
[2013/04/30 16:25]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha, I said only to switch it off if you want to experience more subtle colors. But then you have no control of the overall light on the scene….
[2013/04/30 16:25]  Extropia DaSilva: Ahhh real sex happens in the IM window.
[2013/04/30 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cryptic: it’s being worked on! Kitely and InWorldz, if I’m not mistaken, are subscribing to an initiative that will allow that to be possible
[2013/04/30 16:25]  Cryptic Hak: Sweet
[2013/04/30 16:25]  Zobeid Zuma: Gwyn, I just want a viewer that doesn’t routinely lock up and/or crash. No other program that I run on my Mac Pro does that.
[2013/04/30 16:25]  Zobeid Zuma: Even Safari doesn’t do that anymore!
[2013/04/30 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re right!
[2013/04/30 16:26]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): because its all we have to make it excitement, imagine if I could just right click someone, we would not be discussing Phil adeventures but dogging somewhere
[2013/04/30 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just think that LL simply hasn’t enough developers for that
[2013/04/30 16:26]  ArtCrash Exonar: Crashing is almost always caused by network conflicts or other network problems.
[2013/04/30 16:26]  Zobeid Zuma: But they had enough developers for flexies, and sculpties, and voice chat, and mesh….
[2013/04/30 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: My Sl does not routinely crash. I only go offline cuz my primary’s router goes down temporarily. I USED to crash but no longer.
[2013/04/30 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ha, Charlotte, I’m not so sure if I agree 😉
[2013/04/30 16:26]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): LL has developers?
[2013/04/30 16:26]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): wow
[2013/04/30 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahahh Harry!
[2013/04/30 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, they have a few 😉
[2013/04/30 16:27]  Cryptic Hak: Imbetting that the future is opensim then.
[2013/04/30 16:27]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): what do they do?
[2013/04/30 16:27]  Cryptic Hak: Lets all start working on it !
[2013/04/30 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hard to say, really, Cryptic… OpenSim has a lot of issues as well
[2013/04/30 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and I am!)
[2013/04/30 16:27]  Cryptic Hak: like what Gwyn ?
[2013/04/30 16:27]  ArtCrash Exonar: I don’t think the future will be opensim, because they have the same problems of non scalability as SL.
[2013/04/30 16:27]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): SL will continue to improve, I think Humble is a good ceo for SL
[2013/04/30 16:27]  Harry (anstett.brandenburg): server side something…. oh yes… that
[2013/04/30 16:28]  ArtCrash Exonar: Humble wants to make other games, his head isn’t here much, is it?
[2013/04/30 16:28]  Zobeid Zuma: How can you tell? Kind of hard to judge the scalability of OpenSim worlds when there’s rarely anybody in them.
[2013/04/30 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a memory hog, and without Havok as a physics engine, it’s hard to get the physics to look as good and smooth as in SL
[2013/04/30 16:28]  Extropia DaSilva: In the year 2045 the CEO of SL will be the uploaded mind of Steve Jobs.
[2013/04/30 16:28]  ღ Chαrlσttє ღ (chari0tte): goig to a party thanks for the chat!!!
[2013/04/30 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: you can do crash-tests, like Intel used to do, putting 1,000 avatars in the same sim!
[2013/04/30 16:28]  Extropia DaSilva: Bye Charlotte! Have a good one!
[2013/04/30 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: no, Steve Jobs hated Second Life; he said there was no money in VWs.
[2013/04/30 16:28]  Cryptic Hak: So how much is it to license havok ?
[2013/04/30 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (see you, Charlotte!)
[2013/04/30 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Way too expensive, Cryptic 😛
[2013/04/30 16:29]  Zobeid Zuma: OK, but I’m just saying that scalability doesn’t seem to be much of a limitation on OpenSim thus far….
[2013/04/30 16:29]  Zobeid Zuma: They have several other obstacles to overcome before worrying about that.
[2013/04/30 16:29]  Extropia DaSilva: Yeah but he will have changed his mind by 2045, obviously.
[2013/04/30 16:29]  Cryptic Hak: advantage of opensim is that it is open….its not beyond the realm of possibility to break it up into something more workable
[2013/04/30 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, even though they routinely say the contrary, even OS Grid — still the largest grid — has a lot of scability issues. The inventory servers are routinely down, and they just need to handle a few thousand concurrent users at worst.
[2013/04/30 16:30]  ArtCrash Exonar: Back in the day, concerts seemed to be a viable commodity for SL growth. But once it was discovered that your audience is SEVERELY limited, that excitement died down….
[2013/04/30 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cryptic: agreed. And it’s modular. You can work on bits of it and not break the rest
[2013/04/30 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: YOu have but moments to reach a conclusion, folks..
[2013/04/30 16:30]  Zobeid Zuma: Hmmm…. Now that you mention it, yeah. I’ve had endless inventory problems on OSGrid.
[2013/04/30 16:30]  Cryptic Hak: Port it to C++ by module..optimise it
[2013/04/30 16:30]  Cryptic Hak: use Linus’ law
[2013/04/30 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me nods
[2013/04/30 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: So let us answer a final question..’I WOULD LEAVE SL FOR HIGH-DEF IF…..
[2013/04/30 16:30]  Zobeid Zuma: /me doesn’t C++ as a huge improvement. 😛
[2013/04/30 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: my friends did.
[2013/04/30 16:31]  ArtCrash Exonar: I vote that you programmers touch base with Philip and get more info onto what is what about his idea….
[2013/04/30 16:31]  McCapp: Okay. Final answer. Make the avs intricately positionable, even when on pose balls, etc.
[2013/04/30 16:31]  Cryptic Hak: Bring back last names 😛
[2013/04/30 16:31]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): FOR HIGH-DEF IF….. there are cookies. Honestly, would even join the Dark Side for some.
[2013/04/30 16:31]  Zobeid Zuma: Same, Extie. Though my threshhold for *trying* it (without thought of leaving SL) would be much, much lower.
[2013/04/30 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hehe…. my conclusion, Extie, would be the same… there are 12,300 things that Phillip has to do right this time, if he wants HF to be a success. Is he able to do that in the 18-36 months he needs to develop a public beta? Maybe. Do I think he will manage to do so? No — he has a terrible track record. So what will happen to HF? It will be the paradise of some 5000 builders who will never want another VW. Meanwhile, we’ll continue to be around SL…
[2013/04/30 16:32]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha well put Gwyn
[2013/04/30 16:32]  Extropia DaSilva: OK MY TIME IS UP!
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