Thinkers April 16 2013: Pros and cons of resurrecting extinct species.

Extropia DaSilva: Welcome to Thinkers!
[2013/04/16 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: Today we are discussing…..
[2013/04/16 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: ..
[2013/04/16 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: Hah
[2013/04/16 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: OK I forgot I copies some other text..
[2013/04/16 15:35]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Jurassic Park
[2013/04/16 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: bare with!
[2013/04/16 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: OK!
[2013/04/16 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: As I was saying..
[2013/04/16 15:35]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, I always ‘bare’ with anything
[2013/04/16 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: discussing..
[2013/04/16 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: Cloning, genome sequencing and other biotechnologies could be used to resurrect extinct species. What would be the advantages and disadvantages of doing so?
[2013/04/16 15:35]  ArtCrash Exonar: Hey Ivy
[2013/04/16 15:35]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): /me waves at Iv
[2013/04/16 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: (Gosh I am such a muck-up!)
[2013/04/16 15:36]  Ivy Sunkiller: hoy hoy!
[2013/04/16 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: So the first thing that I should point out is that nobody believes the dinosaurs can be resurrected..
[2013/04/16 15:37]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, to satisfy any curiosity about the species, for one thing
[2013/04/16 15:37]  Ivy Sunkiller: Are we just starting? I think the main reason why people want to bring back extinct species is… vanity
[2013/04/16 15:37]  ArtCrash Exonar: We could raise Wooly mammoths and eat them.
[2013/04/16 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: However, there does seem to be hope that species like the Passenger pigeon, which was driven to extinction by over-hunting, could be brought back.
[2013/04/16 15:38]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): /me wonders when the general resurrection occurs like in Isiah, whether that will change.
[2013/04/16 15:38]  Zobeid Zuma: I can definitely see bringing back some species like the passenger pigeon.
[2013/04/16 15:38]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Art, we could, but I’m sure there would be a worldwide boycott of the meat, and then the boycotting countries would consider the US selfish for not sharing what they refuse to eat
[2013/04/16 15:38]  Zobeid Zuma: Rocky mountain locust? Not so much. 😛
[2013/04/16 15:39]  Extropia DaSilva: Mammoths too, since we have some well-preserved specimins.
[2013/04/16 15:39]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): If the Polar Bear becomes extinct, people will want to bring them back
[2013/04/16 15:39]  ArtCrash Exonar: That cave man guy that they found in the Alps, lets bring him back.
[2013/04/16 15:39]  Zobeid Zuma: And yet both species were extremely numerous and successful until very recently, when they were wiped out by human action. So… Who are we to pick and choose?
[2013/04/16 15:40]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Art, I think they made a movie about that–Encino Man
[2013/04/16 15:40]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zoe, we’re the ones with the power, that’s why.
[2013/04/16 15:40]  Extropia DaSilva: Ah, yes Art. Should we have a ‘genome ark’: A place where we store the genomes of the Earth’s species, ready for resurrection should the need arise?
[2013/04/16 15:40]  Zobeid Zuma: I think that already exists to some extent, Extie.
[2013/04/16 15:40]  ArtCrash Exonar: We totally need that, assuming that we survive to use it…
[2013/04/16 15:41]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, sure why not; they preserve small pox in petri dishes, ‘just in case.’
[2013/04/16 15:41]  Extropia DaSilva: Hahah yes!
[2013/04/16 15:41]  Zobeid Zuma: In the early stages anyhow…
[2013/04/16 15:42]  Zobeid Zuma: So, let’s say we let the rocky mountain locust rest in peace, and we bring back the passenger pigeon….
[2013/04/16 15:42]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes, Zo?
[2013/04/16 15:42]  Zobeid Zuma: Is the modern world ready to have the skies darkened again with vast clouds of pigeons? Do you know what it would be like on the ground below? 😛
[2013/04/16 15:42]  Mr. Yuk (6mr6yuk6):
[2013/04/16 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: Well I suppose we could manage their numbers more efficvtently? Not them plague but not drive them extinct for a second time?
[2013/04/16 15:44]  ArtCrash Exonar: I wonder which specific people we would want to clone, they would grow up as different people with the same bodies, So we would probably want to clone attractive ones…
[2013/04/16 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: Like me you mean?
[2013/04/16 15:44]  Zobeid Zuma: Fair enough. I generally favor de-extinction myself, but it can’t be done on a whim.
[2013/04/16 15:45]  ArtCrash Exonar: Who would you clone?
[2013/04/16 15:45]  Extropia DaSilva: THe other intersting case is the first resurrected passanger pigeon or whatever. What raises it? It has no parents to teach it to be a passanger pigeon (or mammoth or whatever)
[2013/04/16 15:45]  ArtCrash Exonar: Cindy Crawford and Brad Pitt?
[2013/04/16 15:45]  Ivy Sunkiller: Karl Marx, to keep him in a cage and stick needles into him like some sort of a voodoo doll
[2013/04/16 15:45]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, a human will have to, of course. Will have to wear a great big pigeon outfit, and put worms in her mouth
[2013/04/16 15:45]  Extropia DaSilva: Gosh, no, One is enough.
[2013/04/16 15:46]  Zobeid Zuma: We don’t even have a complete passenger pigeon genome. We have bits and pieces, we could splice them together with a rock pigeon or something… but it won’t be 100%.
[2013/04/16 15:46]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Gwyn!
[2013/04/16 15:46]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think you would need to clone several of a species in order to have the genetic diversity needed for survival.
[2013/04/16 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: Talking of clones, I know a certain someone who has one. Right, Gwyn?
[2013/04/16 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *mumbles*
[2013/04/16 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sort of… she has gone her way, lol
[2013/04/16 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning: she’s not a perfect clone any longer
[2013/04/16 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2013/04/16 15:46]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Now, who would have a clone in SL? ::whistles and looks upwards::
[2013/04/16 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hi folks, btw!
[2013/04/16 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: Resurrect Gwyn Llewellen!
[2013/04/16 15:47]  Extropia DaSilva: So anyway, gwyn..
[2013/04/16 15:47]  Extropia DaSilva: we are discussing..
[2013/04/16 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe 😀
[2013/04/16 15:47]  Extropia DaSilva: Cloning, genome sequencing and other biotechnologies could be used to resurrect extinct species. What would be the advantages and disadvantages of doing so?
[2013/04/16 15:47]  Ivy Sunkiller: hi Gwyn 🙂
[2013/04/16 15:47]  ArtCrash Exonar: Gwyneth and Gwenyth
[2013/04/16 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me is in a strange pose with Rhi
[2013/04/16 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2013/04/16 15:48]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): This looks very….interesting…with you’re sitting in front of me like that, Gwyn.
[2013/04/16 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry Extie, Rhi is *very* distracting!
[2013/04/16 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: 🙂
[2013/04/16 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: She always steals the show.
[2013/04/16 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, mmh, ressurrecting extinct species… the thought I had last week about that was, “what’s the point really? all species are doomed to extinction, sooner or later”
[2013/04/16 15:48]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): /me accidentally jiggles and wonders what Gwyn means
[2013/04/16 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Advantage: tourist attraction
[2013/04/16 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: Can anyone think of a good reason to go ahead and try?
[2013/04/16 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Jurrasic Park
[2013/04/16 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see that as a good way to make money 😀
[2013/04/16 15:49]  Zobeid Zuma: Yeah, but we also had some very successful species that were made extinct through human action. So being able to reverse that seems like a good thing.
[2013/04/16 15:49]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): We’ve thought of several, Extie; yes, I mentioned that at the very beginning, Gwyn
[2013/04/16 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: THat is not possible so far as we know, Gwyn.
[2013/04/16 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now you’re spoiling the whole discussion, Extie
[2013/04/16 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought we were *assuming* we can ‘ressurect’ extinct species.
[2013/04/16 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: Well I just want to keep it real..
[2013/04/16 15:50]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Yeah, a vehicle that moves by itself, obviously defies the laws of nature; there will never be an “auto-mobile.”
[2013/04/16 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the first practical use I give… tourist attraction… and you say, “it’s not possible”
[2013/04/16 15:50]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Now, girls, don’t fight
[2013/04/16 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh 🙂
[2013/04/16 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: The techniques we have cannot bring back dinosaurs like T-rex. We simply cannot reconstruct enough of the genome.
[2013/04/16 15:51]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): But Gwyn, you *can* keep moving your boot up my thight
[2013/04/16 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Soooo what’s the point of the topic then?
[2013/04/16 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol RHI!
[2013/04/16 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: ROFL!!!!
[2013/04/16 15:51]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): lol
[2013/04/16 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: But we can bring back things like the Tasmmanian Tiger..
[2013/04/16 15:51]  Zobeid Zuma: Even if we could bring back dinosaurs, there would be no natural place for them in today’s world.
[2013/04/16 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: We still have ferns, Zo 🙂
[2013/04/16 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also,
[2013/04/16 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: Maybe the Dodo, if we can get enough DNA from stuffed specimins:)
[2013/04/16 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was thinking of un-natural places to hold them
[2013/04/16 15:52]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, there was a Sliders episode, where they were just now becoming extinct, and were placed in a preserve in what is, in our world, San Francisco
[2013/04/16 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, Extie, what you’re saying is that we can only get a FEW species back.
[2013/04/16 15:52]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): A strangely altered San Franscicio that looks like Vancouver
[2013/04/16 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes.
[2013/04/16 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: In that case, there is just one point really: science
[2013/04/16 15:52]  Zobeid Zuma: We could bring back the ivory-billed woodpecker. I see no downside to that.
[2013/04/16 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: Right, Zo.
[2013/04/16 15:53]  Extropia DaSilva: Or the tiger. If we allow it to go extinct, that is.
[2013/04/16 15:53]  ArtCrash Exonar: I’m voting for the Sabre Toothed Tiger, then we wouldn’t have to have deer hunting by humans,
[2013/04/16 15:53]  Extropia DaSilva: Would we be less or more inclined to helo save species if we thought we could always bring them back?
[2013/04/16 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I was thinking that we really cannot foresee the impact of what will happen… species go extinct on their own, they don’t need ‘humans+ to help them to get extinct
[2013/04/16 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, what would cities look like without cats and dogs hunting rats and mice? 🙂
[2013/04/16 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And cats and dogs are artificial species…
[2013/04/16 15:54]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): /me envisions if it’s this heated in Washington over gun rights, what bringing back the Saber Toothed Tiger would do to the gun (hunting) debate
[2013/04/16 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes, I suppose they are.
[2013/04/16 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mammoths, raised for their wool
[2013/04/16 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: As a luxury item
[2013/04/16 15:55]  Extropia DaSilva: Oo I wonder if we could bring back Ground sloths?
[2013/04/16 15:55]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, well, people would throw corpses out their windows, as hearses would drive by with lound speakers, proclaiming “Bring Out Your Dead.”
[2013/04/16 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me IS a ground sloth
[2013/04/16 15:55]  Extropia DaSilva: hehehehe
[2013/04/16 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Very Monty Python of you, Rhi 😉
[2013/04/16 15:55]  Zobeid Zuma: Actually…..
[2013/04/16 15:55]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, we can bring back anything you want.
[2013/04/16 15:55]  ArtCrash Exonar: Isn’t there a species of huge Lobsters that were fished to extinction? We could bring them back.
[2013/04/16 15:55]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Why thank you, Gwyn.
[2013/04/16 15:56]  Extropia DaSilva: Only if we can reconstruct the genome, Rhi.
[2013/04/16 15:56]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Art, I would just sick them on the Giant African Snails attacking Florida
[2013/04/16 15:56]  Zobeid Zuma: I’m thinking about the buffalo (i.e. bison)… which nearly went extinct, but we saved it. But saved it for what? It doesn’t seem like we’re ever going to have vast herds of them roaming the plains again. What’s their place in the world now?
[2013/04/16 15:56]  ArtCrash Exonar: I know there is a species of trout that is the size of a King Salmon that was fished to extinction. 50 to 100 pounders.
[2013/04/16 15:56]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Reconstruct the genome. Gwyn, you’re right, Extie is being a poopie-head spoiler today
[2013/04/16 15:56]  ArtCrash Exonar: People eat Bison meat now all the time, Zo.
[2013/04/16 15:57]  Zobeid Zuma: I have a neighbor who raises buffalo, sells the meat. Is that their only role now? Giant beef cattle?
[2013/04/16 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Rhi…. every *interesting* species we come up with, Extie justshrugs it off 🙂
[2013/04/16 15:57]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Art, no, that was just a myth of our grandfather’s generation–“Why in my day, salmon were this big. “Why I personally…”
[2013/04/16 15:57]  Extropia DaSilva: What do you want me to do? Wave that magic wand known as…the Singularity!..and declare that it will conjour up Pteradactyls from the quantum foam? 🙂
[2013/04/16 15:57]  Zobeid Zuma: (And I personally think he’s nuts. I’m not comfortable working around 1400 pound cows, to say nothing of buffalo.)
[2013/04/16 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why not? 🙂
[2013/04/16 15:57]  ArtCrash Exonar: Nope, it’s called the Bonneville trout and it was in Lake Bonneville. The early western pioneers fished it to extinction.
[2013/04/16 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (lol Zo)
[2013/04/16 15:58]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): A tomato the size of a smaLL CITY…
[2013/04/16 15:58]  Zobeid Zuma: Well, we also have people here raising Texas Longhorns. I think they’re nuts too.
[2013/04/16 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I think that the argument “there is no role for these species anymore” is not too stupid. We’re mostly talking about preserving species for preservation’s sake; thus my idea of creating vast attraction parks….
[2013/04/16 15:59]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): /me thinks of Charles Laughton’s Dr. Moreau–“And this is what an asparagus will look like in 100,000 years” as he looks up at the giant, tree like plant
[2013/04/16 15:59]  ArtCrash Exonar: This is interesting to consider WHY we would bring back any particular species. We seem to be empty of ideas, mostly…
[2013/04/16 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: Is there a difference bwteen a species targeted by nature for extinction, and one that went extinct because of human activity?
[2013/04/16 15:59]  Zobeid Zuma: That reminds me of something, Gwyn. There was a movement sometime back to de-populate a big swath of the Great Plains and turn it back into a sort of vast nature preserve.
[2013/04/16 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aren’t we part of nature’s disasters? 🙂
[2013/04/16 15:59]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Art, well, there’s guilt; that’s been implicit in some of our discussion.
[2013/04/16 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo, now, that makes SOME sense for me
[2013/04/16 16:00]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): So the polar bear will come back.
[2013/04/16 16:00]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Guilt is a powerful motivator
[2013/04/16 16:00]  Zobeid Zuma: But of course nothing came of that. Even as the plains are dotted with dwindling settlements and ghost towns, nobody wants to just give up and abandon it.
[2013/04/16 16:00]  ArtCrash Exonar: Most of what Mankind has driven extinct is due to our destruction of their habitat. Unless we were to replace the habitat, there is no point, really to bringing them back…
[2013/04/16 16:01]  Extropia DaSilva: Actually, some chap found that if you have vast herds, the way they trample the ground while foraging is really effective at ‘greening’ dustbowls.
[2013/04/16 16:01]  Zobeid Zuma: The people who still live there being the most stubborn ones, of course.
[2013/04/16 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Art, so it would have to be that combined with Zo’s plan of depopulating vast areas
[2013/04/16 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Notice that I’m not totally against that, mind you
[2013/04/16 16:01]  ArtCrash Exonar: Even though no one lives there, Zo the farms are still run, just by large corporations who need only small amounts of labor.
[2013/04/16 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Art, well genetically engineered, artificial food for that
[2013/04/16 16:02]  Extropia DaSilva: I have seen ‘before’ and after snapshots of land where cattle are managed like large herds. It is like a desert in one picture and a garden of Eden in the other. remarkable.
[2013/04/16 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And if we take people from where they live then we might swell the populations in city, drive the cost of labor down
[2013/04/16 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): That’s what happened the last time we wanted to do scientific agriculture
[2013/04/16 16:02]  Zobeid Zuma: I’m always wary of claims that “no one lives there”, so we can do what we want with it. Sort of like when Israel was created on the theory that “no one” lives in Palestine anyhow. No one that matters, anyhow.
[2013/04/16 16:03]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): “Put the peasants in mines; it will be good for them.”
[2013/04/16 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Around here, for instance, due to the migration to the cities in the past few decades, plus agricultural farmland being abandoned, the forests grew back and lots of species considered extinct came back to live here… these days, we have hawk living in the suburbs, eagles not far away, and dolphins swimming in the seas. If anyone claimed taht to be possible in the 1980s, they would have been put into a lunatic asylum 🙂 But 30 years of “depopulation” (and massive de-pollution) made a huge difference…
[2013/04/16 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sensitive subject, Zo 🙂
[2013/04/16 16:03]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zo, and the funny thing there is that if you get an intelligent, industrious people you can dump them in a wasteland no one wants, they will make it a paradise, and then suddenly–“Hey, it’s our homeland too…”
[2013/04/16 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
[2013/04/16 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
[2013/04/16 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Beware of intelligent and industrious people 😀
[2013/04/16 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: They’re pernicious and very, very dangerous 🙂
[2013/04/16 16:04]  Zobeid Zuma: I’ve noticed the same thing where I live, Gwyn. Lots more wildlife around than when I moved to this area.
[2013/04/16 16:04]  ArtCrash Exonar: I have an idea for a future discussion: Is a Star Trek style ‘replicator’ actually possible? And if so, how would it work?
[2013/04/16 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not surprised, and I find that quite welcome, Zo
[2013/04/16 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it’s called a 3D Printer, Art!)
[2013/04/16 16:05]  ArtCrash Exonar: Form isn’t substance, Gwyn.
[2013/04/16 16:05]  Second Life: Sylfie Del Vanima (sylfie.minogue) is online.
[2013/04/16 16:05]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Yeah, Rosalyn and I were driving from our house, watching the bald eagles in their aerie, listening to the radio talk show say it’s disgraceful that the symbol of our country was becoming extinct and no one has ever seen one.
[2013/04/16 16:05]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): We still chuckle over *that* one
[2013/04/16 16:06]  ArtCrash Exonar: Bald Eagles are in huge numbers in Alaska.
[2013/04/16 16:06]  Second Life: ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath) is offline.
[2013/04/16 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right!
[2013/04/16 16:06]  Extropia DaSilva: (No, a star trek assembler works at the sub-atomic level, constructing atoms out of protons, nuetrons and electrons. A molecular assembler constructs molecules out of atoms, and a 3D printer constructs stuff out of powder each spec of which is millions of atoms)
[2013/04/16 16:07]  Zobeid Zuma: How about the american cheetah? Assuming we could isolate enough DNA to make it possible, should we bring it back?
[2013/04/16 16:07]  ArtCrash Exonar: But you can’t construct atoms except in a sun like environment. So you have to start with atoms.
[2013/04/16 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: Right.
[2013/04/16 16:07]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Right, for a replicator to work, you have to have the blueprint, at the subatomic level, of what the thing is; same principle for the transporter. Now, all we need is a vast energy source (matter/antimatter) and a Heisenberg compensator.
[2013/04/16 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: But Star trek is science fiction, and can bend or break the rules as the story sees fit.
[2013/04/16 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh I’m sure it’s as easy to construct atoms outside a sun environment than getting fragments of DNA out of dinosaur’s bones… ㋡
[2013/04/16 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Seems like a few basic patents and bob’s Your Uncle
[2013/04/16 16:08]  Ivy Sunkiller: going to hide in my lair and go to bed, before I fall asleep with my face on the keyboard
[2013/04/16 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: So anyway, backk to the discussion..
[2013/04/16 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Take care, Ivy.
[2013/04/16 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Nice skirt, btw.
[2013/04/16 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Very spring-y
[2013/04/16 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: sleep tight, Ivy!
[2013/04/16 16:08]  Ivy Sunkiller: nini!
[2013/04/16 16:08]  Ivy Sunkiller: /me waves and poofs
[2013/04/16 16:08]  Zobeid Zuma: But wait… Let’s say we can’t bring the american cheetah back, there’s not enough DNA for that. How about bringing african cheetahs over here and turning them loose? They’re endangered in Africa, maybe we could save that species by introducing them in America?
[2013/04/16 16:08]  Second Life: Ivy Sunkiller is offline.
[2013/04/16 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: Will we see many more species than are alive today in the future? Not just resurrected ones but things that never existed before, thanks to genetic engineering?
[2013/04/16 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, Star Trek tries to stay within its technology, like Asimov did, in his stories
[2013/04/16 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oooh Zo
[2013/04/16 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: A difficult prediction, Extie.
[2013/04/16 16:09]  Extropia DaSilva: Uhuh..
[2013/04/16 16:09]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Yeah, let’s forget about an exact duplication of species, and “bring back” newer, improved brands more adaptive to the situation. Not Coke Classic, but New Coke
[2013/04/16 16:09]  Zobeid Zuma: Not a fan of New Coke, Rhi. 😛
[2013/04/16 16:09]  Extropia DaSilva: They say there is a Sixth mass extinction going on, cause mainly by human activity.
[2013/04/16 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even with artificial selection, not everything is feasible, as Art can lecture us about roses…
[2013/04/16 16:10]  ArtCrash Exonar: Biospheres are too complex to make, they have to grow.
[2013/04/16 16:10]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, I think we will; everything from locust proof wheat to under people
[2013/04/16 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, bacteria will rule in the end.
[2013/04/16 16:10]  Extropia DaSilva: Maybe that is true of all technology, after a certain level of complexity. You cannot build it, you must grow it.
[2013/04/16 16:10]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zoe, no one was, that’s why they brought back Coke Classic, but had to call it a different name because of FTC regulations.
[2013/04/16 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Our own body has more alien species living in it (bacteria, fungi, etc.) than cells created by our own DNA 🙂
[2013/04/16 16:11]  ArtCrash Exonar: And where would those come from for our dinosaur we made?
[2013/04/16 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Being more serious… what I can imagine is that targeted genetic engineering will be used to bring some useful, existing species into extreme conditions, e.g. like raising pigs in the middle of the desert
[2013/04/16 16:11]  Zobeid Zuma: I think they would have had to change the name anyhow for de-obfuscation reasons.
[2013/04/16 16:12]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Or giving them wings, so they will finally be able to fly
[2013/04/16 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[2013/04/16 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: if they start laying eggs, then, yes, they’d be useful 🙂
[2013/04/16 16:12]  Extropia DaSilva: (Damn it why does night last so much longer than day in SL?)
[2013/04/16 16:12]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, they are the Other White Meat
[2013/04/16 16:12]  ArtCrash Exonar: I blame satan, Extie.
[2013/04/16 16:12]  Zobeid Zuma: They used to raise pigs in Egypt until the government used the “swine flu” scare as an excuse to slaughter them all.
[2013/04/16 16:13]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Don’t know, Extie, but the great thing about SL, is you can always go back to day, if you’re in night
[2013/04/16 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: Uhuh..
[2013/04/16 16:13]  Zobeid Zuma: Which was really an anti-Coptic tactic, because only the Copts raised pigs generally.
[2013/04/16 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pigs with clorophyll, so they don’t need to be fed (I know, it’s impossible)
[2013/04/16 16:13]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think the middle east needs more bacon.
[2013/04/16 16:13]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zo, they almost did that with turkeys here; L-Tryptophan. Ooooh. Bad
[2013/04/16 16:14]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Art, it has some; that’s why the US has to save their bacon from time to time
[2013/04/16 16:14]  Zobeid Zuma: More bacon! And beer!
[2013/04/16 16:14]  Extropia DaSilva: I did hear somebody genetically engineered healthy bacon.
[2013/04/16 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bacon from chicken and turkeys!
[2013/04/16 16:14]  Second Life: Craig Horton is online.
[2013/04/16 16:14]  Second Life: Craig Horton is offline.
[2013/04/16 16:14]  Zobeid Zuma: The workers who built the pyramids were paid in beer. Couldn’t do that today.
[2013/04/16 16:14]  ArtCrash Exonar: Bacon isn’t Halal or Kosher unfortunately, though it should be. heh
[2013/04/16 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahahaha Zo!!!!
[2013/04/16 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No wonder that the pyramids are crumbling to dust 😉
[2013/04/16 16:15]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, with genetic engineered bacon, art, it can be like artificial blood for fundamentalists. It isn’t real blood, so you can have transfusions, after all
[2013/04/16 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: No we just give paper tokens that can be redeemed for beer;)
[2013/04/16 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait, that’s not true — there is still a large Christian Coptic community living in Egypt, they can be used as slaves and paid in beer 😉
[2013/04/16 16:16]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Didn’t they do that in Moses’ time, Gwyn. Didn’t work; they wanted land of their own.
[2013/04/16 16:16]  Extropia DaSilva: So would you want your genome preserved so you could be resurrected?
[2013/04/16 16:16]  ArtCrash Exonar: So people in the middle east are more picky about their mates because there are no Beer Goggles?
[2013/04/16 16:16]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, I wouldn’t care; I’d be dead
[2013/04/16 16:16]  Extropia DaSilva: But here and now, do you like the idea of coming back from the dead?
[2013/04/16 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, to be honest, I fail to see the point of ‘ressurecting’ extinct species, except for the reasons you have pointed out: guilt. Of course there is teh scientific challenge, which is useful. And attraction parks for tourism. Besides that, I don’t see the point…
[2013/04/16 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie, it wouldn’t be “me” coming back from the dead; “I” am not my DNA.
[2013/04/16 16:17]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, at the End Times, that will happen, and God will be able to tell me from my clone; unlike some people in SL
[2013/04/16 16:17]  Extropia DaSilva: Are the ‘besides’ good enough points in themselves, though?
[2013/04/16 16:17]  Second Life: Craig Horton is online.
[2013/04/16 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, I don’t think they are 🙂
[2013/04/16 16:17]  Second Life: Craig Horton is offline.
[2013/04/16 16:17]  Zobeid Zuma: Well, guilt can serve a purpose. If you’ve made an obvious mistake, it’s natural to feel an urge to correct it.
[2013/04/16 16:17]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Yeah, I vote for guilt
[2013/04/16 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Except for tourist attractions (ha! I’m biased!)
[2013/04/16 16:18]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Guilt, and maybe some useful purposes; passanger pidgeons will probablyhave less internet lag
[2013/04/16 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think thatguilt, in this case, would be a too expensive argument
[2013/04/16 16:18]  Extropia DaSilva: So you mean other animals are not individuals so it does not matter to us which come back, but people are so a clone of Gwyn is not Gwyn?
[2013/04/16 16:18]  ArtCrash Exonar: Guilt is over rated as a motivation. I think it was invented as a control mechanism which CAN be used as other motivation as well.
[2013/04/16 16:18]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, the same argument would work for bringing back Fluffy, too, Extie
[2013/04/16 16:18]  Zobeid Zuma: And some of those species could actually be useful in restoring some damaged environments.
[2013/04/16 16:18]  Extropia DaSilva: (I think it is getting lighter…)
[2013/04/16 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe that was mean, Extie… what I meant is that it’s pointless to preserve my DNA in the hope that “I” can be ressurected, because, well, I’m not my DNA…
[2013/04/16 16:19]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): So there we have it; helping restore damaged environments, guilt, science, and “because we can.”
[2013/04/16 16:19]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): So let’s get started people; we have a lot of work ahead of us.
[2013/04/16 16:19]  Extropia DaSilva: Yeah, Gwyn, We need your connectome.
[2013/04/16 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: the alternative is to change that environment so that existing species can use it 🙂
[2013/04/16 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that cannot be “preserved”, Extie 😉
[2013/04/16 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: Or maybe one day you will have so many ‘digital footprints’ we can resurrect you from your blog posts, twitter feeds and other lifelogs.
[2013/04/16 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: we should do a session about ‘guilt’ 😉
[2013/04/16 16:20]  ArtCrash Exonar: ooooo, yes
[2013/04/16 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It wouldn’t still be “me”, Extie; in the same sense that I’m not the same person I was 10 years ago. Or last week.
[2013/04/16 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: It can be preserved Gwyn. We just need to get better at chemically fixing the neural circuitry of the brain.
[2013/04/16 16:21]  ArtCrash Exonar: guilt and shame and what is the difference and the similarity.
[2013/04/16 16:21]  Second Life: Lilly (taylor.schroeder) is online.
[2013/04/16 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The day we get that good at fixing it, Extie, will be the day we finally figure out that there is nothing there to ‘fix’ 😉
[2013/04/16 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we’re digressing… again
[2013/04/16 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: I do not mind. It is an interesting digression.
[2013/04/16 16:22]  ArtCrash Exonar: When it comes right down to it, we as individuals are just interchangeable parts of a system. It is a hard thing to face….
[2013/04/16 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: MM hmm.
[2013/04/16 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me agrees
[2013/04/16 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me wonders if there would be restaurants serving Dodo
[2013/04/16 16:23]  ArtCrash Exonar: From an evolutionary point of view, you have done your job only if you have reproduced the next generation.
[2013/04/16 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right! hehe
[2013/04/16 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me FAILS!
[2013/04/16 16:23]  ArtCrash Exonar: me too! haha
[2013/04/16 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Down with the tyranny of evolution!
[2013/04/16 16:23]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): afk; some business calls are coming in. Don’t clone anything while I’m gone
[2013/04/16 16:23]  Extropia DaSilva: Gwyn, you can clone yourself!
[2013/04/16 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me sniggers and brings over her CopyBot
[2013/04/16 16:24]  Extropia DaSilva: copybot is your evolutionary ticket to success!
[2013/04/16 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Only in SL,and I still can only clone the *body*
[2013/04/16 16:24]  Zobeid Zuma: Emu burgers didn’t catch on. After the emu bubble burst and they weren’t worth anything, we had people here in Texas simply turning them loose.
[2013/04/16 16:24]  ArtCrash Exonar: You would have to copy me every day in order for that idea to work.
[2013/04/16 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Really, Zo? hehe — it should be interesting to know what happened to all those emus
[2013/04/16 16:24]  Zobeid Zuma: They can be remarkably hard to get rid of.
[2013/04/16 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Big birds usually are 😀
[2013/04/16 16:25]  ArtCrash Exonar: Emu late them
[2013/04/16 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art! pfft
[2013/04/16 16:25]  ArtCrash Exonar: har
[2013/04/16 16:25]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): back, but subject to leaving again in a minute
[2013/04/16 16:25]  Zobeid Zuma: /me points –>
[2013/04/16 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was quick, Rhi!
[2013/04/16 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re still talking about Emu burguers
[2013/04/16 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: we all done, then?
[2013/04/16 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *burgers even
[2013/04/16 16:26]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I’m a fast worker
[2013/04/16 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I remember the Dilbert strip when he’s sent to the Marketing department; they had unicorn steaks for lunch
[2013/04/16 16:26]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Yes, like the idea of guilt and shame as a topic
[2013/04/16 16:27]  Extropia DaSilva: OK I sense you are all talked out as far as the topic goes.
[2013/04/16 16:27]  Zobeid Zuma: /me points –>
[2013/04/16 16:27]  Extropia DaSilva: My time is up!
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