Extropia DaSilva: Welcome to Thinkers!
[2013/04/09 15:32]  Extropia DaSilva: Today the topic for discussion is…
[2013/04/09 15:32]  Extropia DaSilva: WHAT DOES THE END OF WORK LOOK LIKE?
[2013/04/09 15:32]  Ivy Sunkiller: lazy
[2013/04/09 15:32]  Ivy Sunkiller: :p
[2013/04/09 15:32]  Extropia DaSilva: I totally disagree.
[2013/04/09 15:32]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): poor
[2013/04/09 15:32]  ArtCrash Exonar: I’m guessing pursuit of status through achievement?
[2013/04/09 15:32]  Ivy Sunkiller: Art: you mean… work?
[2013/04/09 15:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: yoo hoo
[2013/04/09 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: Hiya Gwyn!
[2013/04/09 15:33]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, we all know that. After all the churches are corrupt, each in their own way, and there is a rise of a world dictatorship, there will be pestilence, famiine, death and war; An enormous meteor will crash from the sky and all the armies of the world will confront each other on the plains of Megiddo
[2013/04/09 15:33]  Ivy Sunkiller: heyo Gwyn 🙂
[2013/04/09 15:33]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi Gwyn
[2013/04/09 15:33]  ArtCrash Exonar: End of work is defined as end of work needed for survival.
[2013/04/09 15:33]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Or is that the 19th parallel?
[2013/04/09 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: I assumed it really meant end of employment.
[2013/04/09 15:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, 100% unemployment? We’re getting there…
[2013/04/09 15:34]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi Khannea
[2013/04/09 15:34]  Ivy Sunkiller: hoy Khani
[2013/04/09 15:34]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): yay you made it
[2013/04/09 15:34]  Second Life: Peter Stindberg is online.
[2013/04/09 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: As in, society is now so rich it can support a lifetime retirement for all citizens.
[2013/04/09 15:34]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Sure, with the 47% supporting the 49%, we’re clase
[2013/04/09 15:34]  Ivy Sunkiller: I don’t like the use of word “work” there, if anything it should be end of job
[2013/04/09 15:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re getting there, we’re getting there 😀
[2013/04/09 15:35]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): There will never be an end to work.
[2013/04/09 15:35]  ArtCrash Exonar: Yes, those kids, just refuse to go to work, Rhiannon.
[2013/04/09 15:35]  Ivy Sunkiller: I refuse to refuse
[2013/04/09 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, paid work then, Rhi
[2013/04/09 15:35]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, with automated factories and tenure for the old folks, how can they?
[2013/04/09 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: Rhi is right. Look at Art. She would never stop doing her work.
[2013/04/09 15:36]  Extropia DaSilva: And I do not plan to stop writing. Maybe suspend it while I look for something to write about:)
[2013/04/09 15:36]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well I think we have productive impulses; and I think Marx described it rather well–you do poetry in the morning, science in the afternoon, that sort of thing
[2013/04/09 15:36]  ArtCrash Exonar: I was referring to the above quoted right wing statistic of workers vs lazy wards.
[2013/04/09 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What about those who can’t write poetry or do science?
[2013/04/09 15:36]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): flower arranging?
[2013/04/09 15:37]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, don’t do that; if you have nothing to write about, write about nothing. But don’t go looking for something and suspend your writing.
[2013/04/09 15:37]  ArtCrash Exonar: Will there be a lot of hedonism?
[2013/04/09 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: Fish? Sew? Craft in Minecraft? Etc?
[2013/04/09 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[2013/04/09 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: To have Minecraft, somneone has to work to set it up.
[2013/04/09 15:37]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): how are folks to live if there is no work? Are we assuming a universal income?
[2013/04/09 15:37]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): You read in the ‘lazy’ aspect.
[2013/04/09 15:37]  Khannea Suntzu: I am not interested anymore. I intend to subsist on welfare or disability or handouts. Whjatever I can steal from the system, or coerce or beg. I have no ambitions. I am morally bankrupt. I don’t care any more.
[2013/04/09 15:37]  ArtCrash Exonar: We are assuming universal income, yes.
[2013/04/09 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I suppose so, Elspeth, and robot to do all jobs
[2013/04/09 15:37]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): I see thanks
[2013/04/09 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Go Khannea go!
[2013/04/09 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: Maybe some people’s minds have been so dulled by boring jobs that all they would do is relax in front of TV.
[2013/04/09 15:38]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): I would say living on benefits isn’t much fun.
[2013/04/09 15:38]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): Having done it a lot.
[2013/04/09 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, someone has to produce TV too
[2013/04/09 15:38]  Khannea Suntzu: I am too lazy to work, and I hate most people.
[2013/04/09 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: Or something.
[2013/04/09 15:38]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, actually, there will still be a working class, they will mutate to adapt to their dark factories, and every day they will sound the call for the folk who live off of them, and eat them.
[2013/04/09 15:38]  ArtCrash Exonar: The thought experiment assumes ALL of your needs are provided for to the extent that no one needs to Work for income.
[2013/04/09 15:38]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): yes, Rhiannon!
[2013/04/09 15:38]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): LOL
[2013/04/09 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, so it means that TV and movies don’t have anchors or actors…
[2013/04/09 15:39]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): surely though there would still be a differential?
[2013/04/09 15:39]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Either that or they will be a benevolent technocracy run by Raymond Massy, and will have us colonize the Moon, because only science matters in the Socialist Utopia
[2013/04/09 15:39]  Ivy Sunkiller: what if you refuse to have all your needs to be provided?
[2013/04/09 15:39]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): a middle class, as Rhiannon says
[2013/04/09 15:40]  Extropia DaSilva: In a book I am reading, the author reckons that whenever a person does a job that could in principle be done by a machine, they are engaged in dehumanising work. What do you think of that?
[2013/04/09 15:40]  ArtCrash Exonar: You can starve to death if you would like, Ivy.
[2013/04/09 15:40]  ArtCrash Exonar: heh
[2013/04/09 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like that thought, Extie 😀
[2013/04/09 15:40]  Ivy Sunkiller: Art: I mean, what if I want to work for my needs?
[2013/04/09 15:40]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Why would any work be inherently dehumanizing?
[2013/04/09 15:40]  Ivy Sunkiller: kill a goat for my own meal, Zuckerberg style
[2013/04/09 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even though few jobs can be done without any kind of ‘machine’ ( a better word would be: tool). Even poets need a pen
[2013/04/09 15:41]  Khannea Suntzu: Because I find it inherently dehumanizing.
[2013/04/09 15:41]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Ivy, then the World State will place you on an island, and check in on you one a month to see if you’re managing ok
[2013/04/09 15:41]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): first catch your goat.
[2013/04/09 15:41]  Ivy Sunkiller: sure, catching goat and all that
[2013/04/09 15:41]  Ivy Sunkiller: -> work
[2013/04/09 15:41]  Ivy Sunkiller: 🙂
[2013/04/09 15:41]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): also, where would disabled people be in a world like that?
[2013/04/09 15:41]  Extropia DaSilva: This author assumes there are some things machines will never do. Creative stuff. Stuff that requires imagination. So I guess he means machines do all the drudge work leaving people free to do whatever fires their imagination.
[2013/04/09 15:41]  ArtCrash Exonar: Let’s assume there is no store, just some sort of Star trek like machine in your home that replicates whatever you need.
[2013/04/09 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm. I was trying to list human activities that cannot be ‘mechanized’
[2013/04/09 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But creative works requires tools,
[2013/04/09 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: so it’s ‘work’
[2013/04/09 15:42]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwynn, good luck; journalists are being replaced by plotting machines
[2013/04/09 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Rhi
[2013/04/09 15:42]  Extropia DaSilva: Personally I think anything a person can do an AI could do as well.
[2013/04/09 15:42]  Khannea Suntzu: I can’t work, and I don’t want to work. If I can get free stuff I’ll take it, I don’t think I’ll work to survive. If I can’t get free stuff I will probably die, and I won’t be remembered for long. Me in turn I won’t give a damn when I am dead.
[2013/04/09 15:43]  ArtCrash Exonar: Well if we want to be picky, Work is actually defined in physics as moving matter in opposition to gravity.
[2013/04/09 15:43]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Code for the AI: “Anything you can do; I can do better; anything you can do I can do better than you.”
[2013/04/09 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Personally I think that if AIs could do anything at all, since we’ve had AIs for 60 years now, we should have noticed 🙂
[2013/04/09 15:43]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Art, different concept. Seriously
[2013/04/09 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: But it could be we do not bother trying to design AIs that can do jobs we like doing, since we are happy to do them ourselves.
[2013/04/09 15:43]  Ivy Sunkiller: Art: no, that’s “job”, work has a purpose
[2013/04/09 15:43]  Second Life: Gwyneth Llewelyn is offline.
[2013/04/09 15:43]  Khannea Suntzu: I don’t think there will be a utopia. I think elites will kill 98% of humans, give or take, out of sheer pleistocene instincts. Genetic programming.
[2013/04/09 15:43]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): A job has a purpose too, just not yours.
[2013/04/09 15:43]  Ivy Sunkiller: fair enough 🙂
[2013/04/09 15:43]  Second Life: Gwyneth Llewelyn is online.
[2013/04/09 15:44]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): We drove Gwynn away
[2013/04/09 15:44]  ArtCrash Exonar: Whatever jobs there would be would be voluntary and optional.
[2013/04/09 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: She is back.
[2013/04/09 15:44]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): WB, Gwynn
[2013/04/09 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: crashy crashy
[2013/04/09 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: Poor you:(
[2013/04/09 15:44]  Khannea Suntzu: Is this a religious talk group now? describing paradise? The happy hereafter?
[2013/04/09 15:44]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Khannea, yes.
[2013/04/09 15:44]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): …
[2013/04/09 15:44]  ArtCrash Exonar: I’m thinking that people would crave status to differentiate themselves from each other, and this would come from some sort of striving for achievement.
[2013/04/09 15:45]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): That’s why I brought up the Time Machine, and Brave New World.
[2013/04/09 15:45]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): make their own clothes as a mark of achievement?
[2013/04/09 15:45]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Oh, not to mention Logan’s Run
[2013/04/09 15:45]  Khannea Suntzu: I say to get a world like that we’ll have to fight for it. I don’t trust the assholes in charge.
[2013/04/09 15:45]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): hehe are you over 30?
[2013/04/09 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm. Well, I was never one for the Christian paradise. I mean, what’s the point of being on top of a cloud, have a harp, and sing “hosana, hosana, hosana” all day long for ALL ETERNITY?
[2013/04/09 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It looks like “life without jobs” is pretty much the same.
[2013/04/09 15:45]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): elspeth, actually, you have a point. Being able to create your own stuff would make you a membver of the elite
[2013/04/09 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that Art is right.
[2013/04/09 15:45]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, those are only the Baptists.
[2013/04/09 15:46]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): that’s my thought, yes. And what about dyers, crafters, embroiderers
[2013/04/09 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dang, Rhi
[2013/04/09 15:46]  Khannea Suntzu: The islamic paradise has a thing for dates, wine and almond eyed houri, that do your every sexual bidding.
[2013/04/09 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: In a work where nobody works, the few that do will try to aim at a higher status
[2013/04/09 15:46]  ArtCrash Exonar: Let’s look at what people without a need to worry about money do now. They travel, they get good at something. They have social gatherings, they play video games all day.
[2013/04/09 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: I think life without jobs would be like life in SL, where by and large a person spends their time indulging in pursuits that enjoy.
[2013/04/09 15:46]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): I wouldn’t mind a houri – but what about the WIMMIN
[2013/04/09 15:46]  Ivy Sunkiller: Gwyn: you are pretty close with that description to what I’m thinking, actually. By the time we have tech that will be able to sustain humans without any human labor being ever necessary, I don’t think it will be a good thing to be just human.
[2013/04/09 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Khannea: for ALL ETERNITY? No thanks. Too boring.
[2013/04/09 15:46]  Second Life: Peter Stindberg is offline.
[2013/04/09 15:46]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): oh, there are male houris. A Muslim explained it to me.
[2013/04/09 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point, Ivy.
[2013/04/09 15:46]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): ahh
[2013/04/09 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we’d have to be brainwashed with happyhappy thoughts
[2013/04/09 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and eat happyhappyjoyjoy pills
[2013/04/09 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nah.
[2013/04/09 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not for me.
[2013/04/09 15:47]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): sounds like The Matrix.
[2013/04/09 15:47]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, yes, why I bring up Brave New World.
[2013/04/09 15:47]  ArtCrash Exonar: Most twenty year old college students would be fine with a life of partying and video gaming, no?
[2013/04/09 15:47]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): i usually have a point
[2013/04/09 15:47]  Ivy Sunkiller: oh the great computer, give me a cheeseburger, hosana
[2013/04/09 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi, yes, good point.
[2013/04/09 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes you do!
[2013/04/09 15:47]  Extropia DaSilva: Btw early christians and jews thought that you would spend eternity contemplating the glory of god, an activity they assumed would never grow tiresome.
[2013/04/09 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: yes, until they get 40 and have dissolved their liver 😉
[2013/04/09 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: “assume” is the right word 😉
[2013/04/09 15:48]  Khannea Suntzu: I think that in a world where material needs can be sublimated to such a degree most people, which will be programmed with primate genetic evolutionary algorithms will become something soulless very quickly … Humans will either (a) become wireheads of some sort; (b) become programmed subservient to a cause or (c) autodarwinate. I call this the naive posthuman existential triangle of oblivion.
[2013/04/09 15:48]  ArtCrash Exonar: I myself can think of unlimited things to do with my time.
[2013/04/09 15:48]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): It’s already that way–if you aren’t happy, there is something wrong with you; you shouldn’t be allowed weapons and should e forcibly medicated
[2013/04/09 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Khannea: I tend to agree with all that.
[2013/04/09 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi, Yes, I was thinking about that.
[2013/04/09 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Art, so do I!)
[2013/04/09 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (all involving unpaid work though!)
[2013/04/09 15:49]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Huxley first noticed it; then then Thomas Szasz, then GEorge Luas
[2013/04/09 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: noticed what?
[2013/04/09 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So in a jobless world, people would be constantly unhappy unless they would be reprogrammed, either with drugs or any other future tech, to become lifeless drones. What’s the point.
[2013/04/09 15:49]  ArtCrash Exonar: Let’s look at what retired people do now. They move to sunny climates and form social groups and play and travel.
[2013/04/09 15:49]  Khannea Suntzu: When will things be OK? When will we be liberated from the current force-central crap? Anyone has an estimate for years when things will be “genrally post forced work” ?
[2013/04/09 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And as Rhi pointed out, we are already going that way
[2013/04/09 15:49]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): only the ones who have money!
[2013/04/09 15:50]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): That we were moving to a society were you were to be forcibly drugged, as depression and negative emotions meant something was wrong with you
[2013/04/09 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that Rhi is completely correct in her assessment.
[2013/04/09 15:50]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think the hardest thing to overcome would be the Judeo Christian work ethic that is ingrained in Western Culture.
[2013/04/09 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is our society, now
[2013/04/09 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: In my country, 1/3 of the people are constantly depressed and routinely use drugs for that
[2013/04/09 15:51]  Khannea Suntzu: Interesting in my current 2213 series I speculate that self-termination has been made illegal in the Eartj-Moon system by the UN reconstructuionist historic society. Your memories are copyrighted by the “legacy of mankind foundation”.
[2013/04/09 15:51]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): “I NEED my pain; it’s what makes me who I am.”–James Tiberius Kirk
[2013/04/09 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: I am sorry but why would people be unhappy in a jobless world? Just becase being unemployed in a world in which a job is considered such a vital part of life is no picnic, does not mean to say that in a world where nobody ever needs to have a job, being without a job makes you miserable.
[2013/04/09 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: good point… one wonders if the jobless society will start someplace else first
[2013/04/09 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: why would it?
[2013/04/09 15:51]  Khannea Suntzu: Being without social esteem and material security makes your miserable.
[2013/04/09 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But CHina has Confucionism, which is similar to the Judeo-Christian worldview regarding work
[2013/04/09 15:51]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, you’re assuming that all causes of unhappiness are economic, extie. And I’m sure that is exactly what the State will say.
[2013/04/09 15:51]  ArtCrash Exonar: Just because your physical needs are provided for, doesn’t mean that pain and suffering would go away, does it?
[2013/04/09 15:52]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): believe me, long term unemployment is BOORING>
[2013/04/09 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: I am not assuming that.
[2013/04/09 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me echoes Art
[2013/04/09 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art that was very Buddhist of you 🙂 hehe
[2013/04/09 15:52]  ArtCrash Exonar: There will still be jerks to deal with. There will still be disease and death and accident.
[2013/04/09 15:52]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Then there can be all sorts of reasons for unhappiness, Extie, from your art being ignored to your dog dying.
[2013/04/09 15:52]  Khannea Suntzu: Els I tried it for 25+ years. So far the periods I did work were more boring.
[2013/04/09 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: I could never be bored.
[2013/04/09 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: Well, I say never…
[2013/04/09 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah! But we’re talking about edge cases, Extie!
[2013/04/09 15:53]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): Yes but to know that you cannot get work of any paid kind – and have to subsist on whatever handouts you can find? I wouldn’t recommend it
[2013/04/09 15:53]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Your avatar looks like she’s on meth, Gwyn
[2013/04/09 15:53]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): most disabled people need more than the average person just to have a very minimal quality of life
[2013/04/09 15:53]  ArtCrash Exonar: Would culture resemble a Florida retirement community?
[2013/04/09 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I personally don’t understand the concept of “bored”.- I know its definition from the dictionary, but I haven’t got the experience; it’s something utterly impossible for me, and I wouldn’t even know how to start feeling “Bored”. BUT… I’m an edge case.
[2013/04/09 15:53]  Extropia DaSilva: I do actually get bored sometimes. But on those occasions I log off and stop existing. We digital people can do that:)
[2013/04/09 15:53]  Khannea Suntzu: Bored for me means no money.
[2013/04/09 15:54]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): amen Khannea
[2013/04/09 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: not on meth, but on mesh 😀
[2013/04/09 15:54]  Khannea Suntzu: Thats basicly means – Bored == not having the power to make other people give me stuff or do as I say.
[2013/04/09 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No money for me means routine, Khannea 🙂 I’m not “bored” because I have no money lol
[2013/04/09 15:54]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): No, it’s the way it’s fidgeting; I see no holes in you.
[2013/04/09 15:54]  ArtCrash Exonar: I’m thinking that people would still aspire to create something that would outlast their lives, no?
[2013/04/09 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah! That’s a completely different definition of the word “bored”!
[2013/04/09 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: I Agree with people who say that we need work to have a sense of purpose and fulfilment.
[2013/04/09 15:54]  Khannea Suntzu: Odd from where I am sitting I see holes in you, Rhi.
[2013/04/09 15:54]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): I would WANT to – but without money that is difficult.
[2013/04/09 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So Khannea, you would say that “boredom” ios the unability to manipulate others to do your wishes?
[2013/04/09 15:55]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Art, in fact, that would be the only things of value, as in “Beware of Terrans Bearing Gifts.”
[2013/04/09 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *is
[2013/04/09 15:55]  Khannea Suntzu: No manipulate. I want to go in a store and say “give me food”.
[2013/04/09 15:55]  Ivy Sunkiller: I heard as a kid that intelligent people are never bored, I think it’s by now so far carved into my brain that I am not able to be bored out of sheer pride
[2013/04/09 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So if you can’t do that because you have no momney, it means you get bored?
[2013/04/09 15:55]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Khannea, you can do that now; it’s just that the answer will most likely be “no.”
[2013/04/09 15:55]  Khannea Suntzu: I want to go in to an airport and say “take me to florida”. I.e. money.
[2013/04/09 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why do you want to go to Florida?
[2013/04/09 15:56]  Khannea Suntzu: I want to go in to a nice building and say to guys or girls there “eat my pussy”.
[2013/04/09 15:56]  Second Life: Craig Horton is online.
[2013/04/09 15:56]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): I can go for a walk for free but if I wanna go to Costa…
[2013/04/09 15:56]  Second Life: Craig Horton is offline.
[2013/04/09 15:56]  Khannea Suntzu: For pretty ones I need money.
[2013/04/09 15:56]  Extropia DaSilva: Because that is where Disneyworld is.
[2013/04/09 15:56]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): “It’s not having what you want, it’s wanting what you have.” Carly Simon, in “I want to soak up the Sun.”
[2013/04/09 15:56]  ArtCrash Exonar: Reward for effort might be available in such a future society by awards and respect for achievement in whatever field one chooses. For example: mountain climbing, something people do for purposes other than income in most cases.
[2013/04/09 15:56]  Khannea Suntzu: Well\
[2013/04/09 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so what you’re calling “boredom” I would call “insatisfaction”: having wishes unfullfilled
[2013/04/09 15:57]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): Rhiannon, nice theory, but when you can’t pay the mortgage, it’s not as nice.
[2013/04/09 15:57]  Khannea Suntzu: What I am woried about is that in 20-30 years I won’t be able (i.e. don’t have money) to say to people “make me young, now”
[2013/04/09 15:57]  Khannea Suntzu: Since I can’t work, I suppose I will die.
[2013/04/09 15:57]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): I would love to be able to make stuff, digital art, but I cannot afford the software. For instance.
[2013/04/09 15:58]  ArtCrash Exonar: I’ve always thought retirement is wasted on the old…. they can’t really enjoy the true benefits because of health issues.
[2013/04/09 15:58]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): elspeth, we are talking about the future World State. But even if you can’t pay the mortgage–it’s your ego that make you want to take care of yourself by projecting future income from work.
[2013/04/09 15:58]  Ivy Sunkiller: Blender is free, so is Gimp
[2013/04/09 15:58]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): ego?
[2013/04/09 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, ego.
[2013/04/09 15:58]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): I was trying to use that as an example.
[2013/04/09 15:58]  Khannea Suntzu: I don’t care about making stuff. Its pointless. In 20-30 years I can say to an AI, “make me a really good this or that” and the AI will do it.
[2013/04/09 16:01]  Second Life: Strix the naked DJ (strix6) is online.
[2013/04/09 16:01]  Second Life: Ivy Sunkiller is online.
[2013/04/09 16:01]  Second Life: ArtCrash Exonar is online.
[2013/04/09 16:01]  Confident AO – Preloaded ZHAO II: 5% memory free
[2013/04/09 16:01]  Extropia’s Antenna: Touch me for a control menu
[2013/04/09 16:01]  Second Life: Flenser Juergens is online.
[2013/04/09 16:01]  Second Life: Khannea Suntzu is online.
[2013/04/09 16:01]  Second Life: Gwyneth Llewelyn is online.
[2013/04/09 16:01]  Second Life: Naring’nari (joey.aboma) is online.
[2013/04/09 16:01]  Second Life: Lilly (taylor.schroeder) is online.
[2013/04/09 16:01]  Second Life: Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone) is online.
[2013/04/09 16:01]  Second Life: Ari (arisia.vita) is online.
[2013/04/09 16:01]  Second Life: Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone) is online.
[2013/04/09 16:01]  Second Life: Ari (arisia.vita) is offline.
[2013/04/09 16:02]  Second Life: ArtCrash Exonar is online.
[2013/04/09 16:03]  Second Life: Teleport completed from
[2013/04/09 16:03]  Second Life: The region you have entered is running a different simulator version.
 Current simulator: Second Life Server
 Previous simulator: Second Life RC LeTigre
[2013/04/09 16:03]  Ivy Sunkiller: aha
[2013/04/09 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks. Did the sim crash?
[2013/04/09 16:03]  Khannea Suntzu: Yah
[2013/04/09 16:03]  Extropia DaSilva: We all back?
[2013/04/09 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Whew it’s been a long time since I saw that happening!
[2013/04/09 16:04]  Khannea Suntzu: Is this new addon. Its really practical.
[2013/04/09 16:04]  Extropia DaSilva: How exciting!
[2013/04/09 16:04]  ArtCrash Exonar: Was there a general sl crash?
[2013/04/09 16:04]  ArtCrash Exonar: or just me?
[2013/04/09 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just the sim
[2013/04/09 16:04]  Extropia DaSilva: I thought it was just me who had crashed. It was everybody!
[2013/04/09 16:04]  ArtCrash Exonar: aha
[2013/04/09 16:04]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): yeah, I noticed that on the map
[2013/04/09 16:05]  Extropia DaSilva: So…what was the last comment of the discussion?
[2013/04/09 16:05]  Ivy Sunkiller: and I was just writing a reply: how do you ask AI to write you your book?
[2013/04/09 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess we were being too radical lol
[2013/04/09 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Censorship!
[2013/04/09 16:05]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): i was sent back to my ‘last location’
[2013/04/09 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was sent to a telehub….
[2013/04/09 16:06]  ArtCrash Exonar: I was thinking that our culture is obsessed with competition. So there might be a lot of competetive things as occupation.
[2013/04/09 16:06]  Khannea Suntzu: I don’t “ask” an AI to write me a book. I *instruct* an AI, goddamn design me an AI that can create stuff I really like, and do it next week.
[2013/04/09 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh.
[2013/04/09 16:06]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, it’s my fault, when I really should do things in RL, but procrastinate leaving SL, I get booted–always. Sorry I took you all with me. lol
[2013/04/09 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Rhi
[2013/04/09 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sure it wasn’t YOUR fault.
[2013/04/09 16:06]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Me too.
[2013/04/09 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was typing something like…. the jobless world is the utopia of having one’s material wishes all granted, right?
[2013/04/09 16:07]  Ivy Sunkiller: – Dear AI, make me happy
[2013/04/09 16:07]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): But it was a good idea; I came back to say good bye and to thank Extie for the topic
[2013/04/09 16:07]  Ivy Sunkiller: – ok, what do you want?
[2013/04/09 16:07]  Ivy Sunkiller: – dunno
[2013/04/09 16:07]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And then it became a challenge to get here
[2013/04/09 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Ivy
[2013/04/09 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: You are leaving?
[2013/04/09 16:07]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): yeah, ‘fraid so.
[2013/04/09 16:07]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think we would do a lot of things in order to increase our status among friends. Like music, gardening, cooking, writing…. whatever.
[2013/04/09 16:07]  Khannea Suntzu: Having your wishes granted will kill even the biggest saint in short order.
[2013/04/09 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: Boo!
[2013/04/09 16:07]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I really should do some shopping before work.
[2013/04/09 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, nice seeing you, Rhi…
[2013/04/09 16:07]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): sorry
[2013/04/09 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes, it was:)
[2013/04/09 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: So this topic..anything else to say, anyone?
[2013/04/09 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Definitely not shopping for clothes, Rhi hehe
[2013/04/09 16:08]  Ivy Sunkiller: my wish is that I want to be able to do more stuff
[2013/04/09 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Nice I could *finally* get here; RL has interfered lately.
[2013/04/09 16:08]  ArtCrash Exonar: Yes
[2013/04/09 16:08]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2013/04/09 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: Yay, Art!
[2013/04/09 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Extie, this is always the problem with utopias
[2013/04/09 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: Go on, then.
[2013/04/09 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Byeeee!
[2013/04/09 16:08]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think that what we now call leisure, is what we would in this future world we would call living.
[2013/04/09 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: They’re only utopias for *some*, while being dystopias for everybody else
[2013/04/09 16:08]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): Ari crashed out too?
[2013/04/09 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes he did)
[2013/04/09 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (you can tp him back!=
[2013/04/09 16:09]  ArtCrash Exonar: Science would still advance. So would the arts.
[2013/04/09 16:09]  Khannea Suntzu: What if the law required you to upgrade in order not to succumb to (a) become a wirehead, or (b) become a scientology nut, or equivalent or (c) extinguidh your flame out of sheer ennui? Sort of like, you HAVE to upgrade as we say, or otherwise we’ll lose you.
[2013/04/09 16:09]  Extropia DaSilva: YOu know, Gwyn, we do live in utopia, or rather utopia as some 16th century writers imagined it to be.
[2013/04/09 16:09]  Second Life: Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone) is offline.
[2013/04/09 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, Extie. Democracy IS an utopia.
[2013/04/09 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wasn’t saying that utopias are not achievable; they certainly are.
[2013/04/09 16:10]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): upgrade how?
[2013/04/09 16:10]  Khannea Suntzu: You HAVE to follow public education. You MUST. Along the same lines you MUST become a posthuman entity. Its the Laww.
[2013/04/09 16:10]  Ivy Sunkiller: Khani: I don’t think law needs to require that, at all
[2013/04/09 16:10]  Extropia DaSilva: ..
[2013/04/09 16:10]  Extropia DaSilva: They imagined a world with abundant food. So what would they make of a modern supermarket?
[2013/04/09 16:10]  ArtCrash Exonar: Here is an interesting point, what would law enforcement look like in this world? Volunteer cops?
[2013/04/09 16:10]  Khannea Suntzu: No but a world might pose certain minimal requirements to its citizens.
[2013/04/09 16:10]  Extropia DaSilva: ED-209!
[2013/04/09 16:10]  Ivy Sunkiller: robocop!
[2013/04/09 16:10]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha Ivy
[2013/04/09 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Posthuman, in this context, would mean: “not being interested in the materialistic urges and wishes”? 😉 In that case, it’s very easy to achieve that kind of utopia!
[2013/04/09 16:11]  Khannea Suntzu: Same as “you need education”. “You must be medically insured”.
[2013/04/09 16:11]  ArtCrash Exonar: There would still be jails. Would they have better food? heh
[2013/04/09 16:11]  Ivy Sunkiller: “and that little bit of skin on your penis… yeah…”
[2013/04/09 16:11]  Khannea Suntzu: Society might be moved democratically to pose certain minimal requirements.
[2013/04/09 16:11]  Khannea Suntzu: If you scream loudly, we MUST correct your brain.
[2013/04/09 16:12]  Ivy Sunkiller: Khani: are you starting to hate democracy?
[2013/04/09 16:12]  Khannea Suntzu: I hate alternatives way more.
[2013/04/09 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you have no more material wishes, what crimes would there be?
[2013/04/09 16:12]  ArtCrash Exonar: Fact of the matter is, with a Star Trek style replicator, you wouldn’t need money, would you?
[2013/04/09 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Isaac Asimov’s “The Naked Sun” comes to mind…
[2013/04/09 16:12]  Khannea Suntzu: Remind me of that next time I shit! in your soup, Gwyn.
[2013/04/09 16:12]  ArtCrash Exonar: Gwyn murder comes to mind.
[2013/04/09 16:12]  Extropia DaSilva: They did not need money in Star Trek.
[2013/04/09 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. It did come to the mind of Asimov too.
[2013/04/09 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: “If you scream loudly, we MUST correct your brain.” -> this is our current society already
[2013/04/09 16:13]  ArtCrash Exonar: Which Asimov book has this type of scenario?
[2013/04/09 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The Naked Sun”
[2013/04/09 16:13]  ArtCrash Exonar: …makes note
[2013/04/09 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Remember, in the 1950s, when Asimov wrote that book, cybernetics were already promising AIs and robots
[2013/04/09 16:14]  Khannea Suntzu: Democracy is nice and all, but it means nothing of people can’t just get up and say “fuck this shit” and start their own somewhat differently organized democracy.
[2013/04/09 16:14]  Khannea Suntzu: Or a tyranny, provided people can leave if the turanny sucked.
[2013/04/09 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So Asimov’s society on Aurora, the planet where this is set, is like huge farms, where people are hundreds of miles from each other. Robots farm the land and do all jobs, and they’re run by AIs. People spend all their time on Second Life, I mean, on an interactive virtual world with their avatars.
[2013/04/09 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: Those were the days when professors would charge an undergraduate with coding machine vision and expect them to program a robot to see as well as a human over the summer holidays:)
[2013/04/09 16:15]  ArtCrash Exonar: Have you notices that most Science Fiction regards AI as dangerous and harmful to humans?
[2013/04/09 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Khannea: only the *majoroty* can do that, yes
[2013/04/09 16:15]  ArtCrash Exonar: oh interesting. I don’t think abuncance will lead to a life of only the mind.
[2013/04/09 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Asimov never really puts AIs as “dangerous”, but merely the humans behind them 😀
[2013/04/09 16:16]  Khannea Suntzu: Interactive? Why must I interact with people (other than Trophy..) ? I want to interact with a few hundred versions of me.
[2013/04/09 16:16]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): is it a given that the future will be “abundance” for everyone?
[2013/04/09 16:16]  ArtCrash Exonar: Asimov is one of the few who write novels about AI being benign…
[2013/04/09 16:16]  Khannea Suntzu: Kinda like Hell for Captain Jack Sparrow.
[2013/04/09 16:16]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): now there is a houri I could go for.
[2013/04/09 16:16]  Khannea Suntzu: ^^
[2013/04/09 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: I don’t think it either. Extie already made that point: for 16th century thinkers, we would live in a society of abundance. But we’re not “a society of the mind”. Rather, we’re even more hedonistic than we were in the 16th century.
[2013/04/09 16:16]  Extropia DaSilva: No it is no given. Just what we can expect if the current trajectory is sustained.
[2013/04/09 16:16]  ArtCrash Exonar: elspeth, it is a given that abundance without work is POSSIBLE. But whether our culture will allow it is another story.
[2013/04/09 16:16]  Ivy Sunkiller: I was reading a book by a polish writer a long ago, don’t remember the title now (though it would be of no help for you either way I guess, don’t think there are translations), where all work was automated and people degenerated into such a lazy state they had to unfreeze people from the past so that there was somebody to send into space.
[2013/04/09 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Elspeth: yes, but the question is “how far in the future”
[2013/04/09 16:17]  Extropia DaSilva: Was it Stanislaw Lem?
[2013/04/09 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha I was thinking of Lem too
[2013/04/09 16:17]  Ivy Sunkiller: no, I’d know if it was Lem 🙂
[2013/04/09 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2013/04/09 16:17]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): ok – I don’t think I believe that.
[2013/04/09 16:17]  Extropia DaSilva: I miss Lem. Lem Skall that is. I miss him invariably antagonising Art or Scarp.
[2013/04/09 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, until 2007, there were strong indicators showing that, Elspeth
[2013/04/09 16:18]  Khannea Suntzu: Funny. When I started my existence in 1983, guess what my main class was?
[2013/04/09 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: A typical example: two billion people lived with US $1 a day before 2000
[2013/04/09 16:18]  ArtCrash Exonar: Lem didn’t antagonize me. But I miss his curmudgeounliness.
[2013/04/09 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: These days, half of those people already have $2.5/day
[2013/04/09 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, yes, there is an ongoing improvement, but the pace is very very slow
[2013/04/09 16:18]  Extropia DaSilva: Nothing punctures the zen calm of Exonar.
[2013/04/09 16:19]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2013/04/09 16:19]  ArtCrash Exonar: hardly
[2013/04/09 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Khannea
[2013/04/09 16:19]  Khannea Suntzu: They predict one bitcoin will be 10.000$ in a year.
[2013/04/09 16:19]  ArtCrash Exonar: Just give me a global warming denier and I will go insane… haha
[2013/04/09 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me hides
[2013/04/09 16:19]  Extropia DaSilva: Btw bit off topic but here is a weird fact I learned today. India is a net exporter of food, and it has starving people. How strange is that?
[2013/04/09 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me turns on the heater. This year we’ll have no summer, thanks to global warming.
[2013/04/09 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: They import 3 billion dollars worth and export 8 billion dollars worth.
[2013/04/09 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: On the other hand, India has no famine
[2013/04/09 16:20]  ArtCrash Exonar: Once the heat sink of the poles melts, all bets are off.
[2013/04/09 16:20]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): They need money more than they need food
[2013/04/09 16:20]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): or rather, those in CHARGE do
[2013/04/09 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: very likely, Elspeth 🙂
[2013/04/09 16:21]  Ivy Sunkiller: if Bitcoin keeps growth from the past month then $10000 is a gross understatement
[2013/04/09 16:21]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): yes but where can you keep it safe?
[2013/04/09 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: If people are starving the problem is not lack of food. We make enough to feed every person alive today. More than enough.
[2013/04/09 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, we do
[2013/04/09 16:21]  Khannea Suntzu: Most people who deny global warming exists do so because they don’t want to sacrifice one iota of their luxuries.
[2013/04/09 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The problem is people, not food 🙂 *some* pºeople at lçeast.
[2013/04/09 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *least
[2013/04/09 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: But maybe we should make that a topic for another day..
[2013/04/09 16:21]  ArtCrash Exonar: The problem with starving people is income inequity.
[2013/04/09 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly
[2013/04/09 16:22]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!
[2013/04/09 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: yummy!
[2013/04/09 16:22]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): Eat the rich! I like better.
[2013/04/09 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahahaha
[2013/04/09 16:22]  ArtCrash Exonar: Starving people make for BAD soylent green.
[2013/04/09 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: there are not enough to feed us all!
[2013/04/09 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: WE GOTTA STOP EM! SOMEHOW!!
[2013/04/09 16:22]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): so eat the rich!
[2013/04/09 16:22]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): whispers: LOL
[2013/04/09 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: they’re just 1%…
[2013/04/09 16:22]  Khannea Suntzu: Shut up communist scum or I’l call Mike Lorrey
[2013/04/09 16:23]  Extropia DaSilva: I like that movie. Everyone, watch Soylent Green. Good film:)
[2013/04/09 16:23]  ArtCrash Exonar: I saw that movie recently, It is only good in memory…. heh
[2013/04/09 16:23]  Extropia DaSilva: So are we all done?
[2013/04/09 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, even in spite of Charlton Heston…
[2013/04/09 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[2013/04/09 16:23]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): it’s excellent, in spite of the clothes.
[2013/04/09 16:23]  Extropia DaSilva: He is good in that film, I think.
[2013/04/09 16:23]  Khannea Suntzu: Has everyone seen the spoof on Charlton Heston, made by Jim Carry?
[2013/04/09 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh. Compared to others, yes
[2013/04/09 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, I haven’t seen that
[2013/04/09 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, we’re straying away from the topic…
[2013/04/09 16:24]  єℓร (elspeth.guyot): Yes, I’m afraid I need to go. Nice to see you folks.
[2013/04/09 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: See you, Elspeth!
[2013/04/09 16:24]  Extropia DaSilva: Ahhh I think we are done.
[2013/04/09 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dang! 😀
[2013/04/09 16:24]  ArtCrash Exonar: My favorite Heston line is the end of Planet of the Apes! When he says Damn them all….! Damn them all to HELLLLLLLL!!
[2013/04/09 16:24]  Ivy Sunkiller: eat the poor!
[2013/04/09 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *giggles*
[2013/04/09 16:24]  Extropia DaSilva: YOu have six odd minutes to say something on topic if you wish to.
[2013/04/09 16:25]  ArtCrash Exonar: odd minutes
[2013/04/09 16:25]  Extropia DaSilva: make that 5
[2013/04/09 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If we eat all the poor, there will be only rich people left; while if we eat the rich, they won’t be enough to feed everybopdy, and the result will be a world with only poor people. So…
[2013/04/09 16:25]  Ivy Sunkiller: started with a minchin song, can end with one:
[2013/04/09 16:25]  Extropia DaSilva: Surely the best line is…’Get your stinkin’ paws off me you….damn dirty APE!’?
[2013/04/09 16:25]  ArtCrash Exonar: I guess all minutes spent with us are odd.
[2013/04/09 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[2013/04/09 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was trying to think what people did on Asimov’s novel.
[2013/04/09 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think they just chatted with each other and did some art
[2013/04/09 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: Oo The Hobbit (the movie) is out on iTunes.
[2013/04/09 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I guess I will have to agree with Art — the jobless utopia is about having infinite time for leisure.
[2013/04/09 16:27]  Khannea Suntzu: 🙂
[2013/04/09 16:27]  Khannea Suntzu: What is “iTunes” ?
[2013/04/09 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I wonder how people will get brainwashed to have *fun* with leisure *all the time*, because most people don’t. Asimov obviously didn’t say 🙂
[2013/04/09 16:27]  Extropia DaSilva: Gawps at Khannea.
[2013/04/09 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Khannea, you Luddite!
[2013/04/09 16:28]  ArtCrash Exonar: iTunes is a company striving to own all intellectual content, but failing because they have competitors with the same goals… heh
[2013/04/09 16:28]  Ivy Sunkiller: it is indeed, and it is even in english
[2013/04/09 16:28]  Ivy Sunkiller: on german itunes that is
[2013/04/09 16:28]  Khannea Suntzu: Hmmm
[2013/04/09 16:28]  Extropia DaSilva: OK my time is up!
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