THINKERS JANUARY 29 2013: REBIRTH OF VR?

Extropia DaSilva: The Occulus Rift protoype VR headset is getting rave reviews. Is virtual reality about to deliver on its promises at long last?
[2013/01/29 15:32]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I know nothing about that.
[2013/01/29 15:32]  Zobeid Zuma: I did read up about that a bit.
[2013/01/29 15:32]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): But I’ll probably end up with an opinion once we start discussing it
[2013/01/29 15:32]  Ivy Sunkiller: I’ve seen one youtube clip with some random people’s impressions
[2013/01/29 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: Well, the Occulus is the most immersive headset at an affordable price the world has ever seen.
[2013/01/29 15:33]  Ivy Sunkiller: hard to really discuss it until you’ve experienced it I guess
[2013/01/29 15:33]  Zobeid Zuma: It doesn’t sound like there was any big breakthrough in technology… But the guy who made it is a VR fanatic.
[2013/01/29 15:33]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): So does it create a kind of holodeck experience or what?
[2013/01/29 15:33]  Ivy Sunkiller: yup, it has two screens in which have, bent screens
[2013/01/29 15:33]  Zobeid Zuma: He collected all the existing VR equipment he could find (probably the world’s largest private collection) and took them all apart to figure out how they worked…
[2013/01/29 15:34]  Ivy Sunkiller: (grammar fail here)
[2013/01/29 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: Not quite a holodeck..
[2013/01/29 15:34]  Ivy Sunkiller: hello Seth
[2013/01/29 15:34]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi Seth
[2013/01/29 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: hiya!
[2013/01/29 15:34]  Zobeid Zuma: And then applied everything he learned to build his idea of the perfect VR headset.
[2013/01/29 15:34]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, I wouldn’t think so; just trying to get a handle on it
[2013/01/29 15:34]  Sethsryt the Ravager (sethsryt.seetan): Hi Rhiannon. Been a while.
[2013/01/29 15:34]  Ivy Sunkiller: essentially it’s just goggles that give you complete 3d experience *and* controls
[2013/01/29 15:34]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Like right now, I’m looking at a computer screen, but the screen woujld appear in front of me, right?
[2013/01/29 15:34]  Ivy Sunkiller: so as you move your head the camera in game world moves
[2013/01/29 15:35]  Ivy Sunkiller: they apparently had people falling over while wearing the headset
[2013/01/29 15:35]  Ivy Sunkiller: because it completely screws your orientation in the physical space
[2013/01/29 15:35]  Zobeid Zuma: I’ve only worn a VR helmet once in my life. It was long ago, and it was crude… it reminded me of Pong. I loved it, but I didn’t get much time with it.
[2013/01/29 15:35]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): /me resists the temptation to pinch Rhi
[2013/01/29 15:35]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): helloes!
[2013/01/29 15:35]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi luisa
[2013/01/29 15:35]  Ivy Sunkiller: heyo luisa!
[2013/01/29 15:35]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): /me wavesw luisa away like a mosquito.
[2013/01/29 15:35]  Zobeid Zuma: It was Dactyl Hunt. They actually rolled that out in the arcades, briefly.
[2013/01/29 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: Right. It has a really wide POV, so you never see the edges of the screen. It is as though you are IN that world, looking at its landscape. And, as you turn your head, the view moves in perfect synch.
[2013/01/29 15:36]  Zobeid Zuma: It does sound great… I wonder if there will be any software worthy of it?
[2013/01/29 15:36]  Ivy Sunkiller: any game should do
[2013/01/29 15:36]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, as long as you aren’t wandering down the street, it sounds pretty cool. Cann you imagine SL in that format?
[2013/01/29 15:36]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Gwyn!
[2013/01/29 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bing!
[2013/01/29 15:36]  Extropia DaSilva: Comparing the Rift to the VR of the 80s and 90s is akin to comparing digital 3D movies like Avatar to those old 3D films with the green and red glasses:)
[2013/01/29 15:36]  Zobeid Zuma: SL does not put a put of effort into immersiveness.
[2013/01/29 15:37]  Zobeid Zuma: 3D movies are a fad, Extie. And a rapidly fading one, too.
[2013/01/29 15:37]  Ivy Sunkiller: heyo Gwyneth!
[2013/01/29 15:37]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, why should it, Zo. But if enough people used these goggles, it might
[2013/01/29 15:37]  Zobeid Zuma: Hi Gwyn!
[2013/01/29 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: SL would not work. Too laggy. You need ultra smooth updating.
[2013/01/29 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi all :-=
[2013/01/29 15:37]  Ivy Sunkiller: 3d movies will be back when we get 3d tvs that don’t require any glasses or stuff
[2013/01/29 15:38]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Yeah, I agree Zo; I think it’s that people who were into that fad decades ago are saying–oooh, it’s back only better.
[2013/01/29 15:38]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): hi Gwyn
[2013/01/29 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: so gwyn, we are discussing…and Scarp too (joined us from up high at last)..discussing..
[2013/01/29 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: The Occulus Rift protoype VR headset is getting rave reviews. Is virtual reality about to deliver on its promises at long last?
[2013/01/29 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought we had them, Ivy…?
[2013/01/29 15:38]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): oh Scarpy is late
[2013/01/29 15:38]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): That television thing won’t last either
[2013/01/29 15:38]  Zobeid Zuma: The first MMOG that I ever played (with graphics, not just text!) was Everquest… and limited as the technology was, the environment they created was *very* immersive. That was what hooked me.
[2013/01/29 15:38]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Scarp
[2013/01/29 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, I remember the topic
[2013/01/29 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Really, I have no idea lol
[2013/01/29 15:38]  Zobeid Zuma: But it seems we’ve stepped away from that model. People didn’t have the patience to deal with a world that realistic.
[2013/01/29 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have this strange feeling that people do NOT like immersion.
[2013/01/29 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, some do. About a million. They’re all here 🙂
[2013/01/29 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like Zo said.
[2013/01/29 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: People have no patience, period.
[2013/01/29 15:39]  Ivy Sunkiller: I love immersion, I always pick my armor by appearance first, stats second
[2013/01/29 15:39]  Extropia DaSilva: that could be the problem, Zo. People want games they can pick up in an instant.
[2013/01/29 15:39]  Ivy Sunkiller: in single player games at least 🙂
[2013/01/29 15:39]  Ivy Sunkiller: depends on people and games Extie
[2013/01/29 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ivy, you don’t count 🙂
[2013/01/29 15:39]  Zobeid Zuma: It was very easy to get lost in EQ and spend a lot of time blundering around. And it took a lot of time to travel anywhere. And there was *weather*.
[2013/01/29 15:39]  Ivy Sunkiller: what about all the minecraft nerds?
[2013/01/29 15:39]  Scarp Godenot: Short attention span defines our new cultures.
[2013/01/29 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Scarp.
[2013/01/29 15:40]  Zobeid Zuma: All of which gave it a realistic feeling, but was also annoying when you wanted to advance in the game. :/
[2013/01/29 15:40]  Ivy Sunkiller: I don’t think short attention span is anything new really
[2013/01/29 15:40]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zo, but if there were a virtual world like SL that used it, those problems wouldn’t matter. If you can fix the lag factor
[2013/01/29 15:40]  Ivy Sunkiller: we only now have technology that makes it obvious
[2013/01/29 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh. I don’t know… but you MIGHT be right.
[2013/01/29 15:40]  Sethsryt the Ravager (sethsryt.seetan): In Skyrim I pick armour according to temperature and style first, and of course, how well it would protect/hinder my character, stats and looks second I guess..
[2013/01/29 15:40]  Scarp Godenot: I think short attention span IS new. We are almost required to be doing several things at once now.
[2013/01/29 15:41]  Extropia DaSilva: One thing Palmer Luckey said…Today videogames have goals you must accomplish. He reckons the Rift will usher in a new generation of digital environments in which you do not have any real purpose other than to get totally lost in the worlds. You know, like the environment is worth exploring and so that is what you go and do.
[2013/01/29 15:41]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Scarp, I forget. What was your point. I wasn’t payiing attention lol
[2013/01/29 15:41]  Scarp Godenot: har
[2013/01/29 15:41]  Zobeid Zuma: The later expansions to EQ added a lot of teleportation portals and made long-distance travel quick and easy… and greatly reduced its sense of realism.
[2013/01/29 15:41]  Ivy Sunkiller: do you know that Rift has it’s own little “second life”?
[2013/01/29 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: in my reasoning, the goggles will make little difference for those that are *already* in SL. We’re here even though we have lag, 2D imaging, and a lot of limitations 🙂
[2013/01/29 15:41]  Ivy Sunkiller: it’s called dimensions IIRC
[2013/01/29 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: How so, Ivy?
[2013/01/29 15:41]  Extropia DaSilva: does it, Ivy?
[2013/01/29 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What’s that?
[2013/01/29 15:41]  Zobeid Zuma: I would like to play that kind of game, Extie.
[2013/01/29 15:41]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, again, that reinforces my point about it being a possibility for VW’s
[2013/01/29 15:41]  Ivy Sunkiller: you get your own little instance where you can build stuff!
[2013/01/29 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh niceeee
[2013/01/29 15:42]  Ivy Sunkiller: with prefabs, but you can move, rotate and scale objects
[2013/01/29 15:42]  Extropia DaSilva: I like the sound of that:)
[2013/01/29 15:42]  Zobeid Zuma: I still don’t think any MMO has really got it right. (Although WoW did a lot of things much more right than EQ.)
[2013/01/29 15:42]  Ivy Sunkiller: and even do some basic scripting to make minigames
[2013/01/29 15:42]  Ivy Sunkiller: and puzzles
[2013/01/29 15:42]  Ivy Sunkiller: it’s pretty cool
[2013/01/29 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: did Luckey ever read ANYTHING about SL?
[2013/01/29 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean…
[2013/01/29 15:42]  Ivy Sunkiller: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_RA1z666Mo
[2013/01/29 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That quote could have been from Philip Rosedale in 2002.
[2013/01/29 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: That is Rosedale for you. A visionary.
[2013/01/29 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[2013/01/29 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What I mean is that this was what Sl promised 😉
[2013/01/29 15:43]  Zobeid Zuma: SL is too fragmented and incoherent.
[2013/01/29 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And sure, it got its million followers.
[2013/01/29 15:43]  Ivy Sunkiller: dimensions is the only reason why I considered going back to Rift
[2013/01/29 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: when I get my rift I am going to build a digital double of Philip Rosedale. And then I am going to cuddle him.
[2013/01/29 15:44]  Ivy Sunkiller: but I still don’t want to pay a subscription fee, so 😛
[2013/01/29 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So now someone is promising it *again*. Uh.. why should they succeed?
[2013/01/29 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just because there is better tech?
[2013/01/29 15:44]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, that’s pretty much it
[2013/01/29 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But “better tech” will only be interesting to geeks.
[2013/01/29 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm
[2013/01/29 15:44]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): But let’s face it, once the tech gets to a certain point, people will want to do it.
[2013/01/29 15:44]  Zobeid Zuma: That’s not always true, Gwyn.
[2013/01/29 15:44]  Ivy Sunkiller: it’s not “this again” Gwyn, it’s just an addon to a game that’s a success on it’s own 🙂
[2013/01/29 15:45]  Extropia DaSilva: You say go back to the Rift as though it is old technology. BUt it is only in prototype stage so methinks you are confusing it with something else, Ivy.
[2013/01/29 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No no, Ivy, I meant something different…
[2013/01/29 15:45]  Ivy Sunkiller: Extie: Rift is not that young of a game 😛
[2013/01/29 15:45]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, you should run for office. “No, no, I didn’t mean gun control; I meant something different…”
[2013/01/29 15:45]  Ivy Sunkiller: it just got it’s first expansion 🙂
[2013/01/29 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: http://www.riftgame.com/en/ ? 🙂
[2013/01/29 15:46]  Ivy Sunkiller: yes
[2013/01/29 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Rhi!
[2013/01/29 15:46]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): “I didn’t mean to exclude illegal aliens who work it; I meant something different…”
[2013/01/29 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: well VR is not young…
[2013/01/29 15:46]  Scarp Godenot: Looking at the Rift video, I’m wondering how they will deal with the bandwidth problems of having a bajillion objects and differently than Second Life does.
[2013/01/29 15:46]  Ivy Sunkiller: they are all prefabs Scarp
[2013/01/29 15:46]  Ivy Sunkiller: you can’t upload anything
[2013/01/29 15:46]  Scarp Godenot: So all made by the company, then
[2013/01/29 15:46]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, I’m not that technical, but I can see them eventually solving those problems.
[2013/01/29 15:46]  Ivy Sunkiller: but you can build stuff plank by plank
[2013/01/29 15:46]  Ivy Sunkiller: yes
[2013/01/29 15:46]  Scarp Godenot: So very limited
[2013/01/29 15:46]  Ivy Sunkiller: yes
[2013/01/29 15:47]  Extropia DaSilva: One thing I do know, is that you cannot play any old videogame on these goggles. It has to be specially written to code for the goggle’s stereoscopic fish-eye lenses.
[2013/01/29 15:47]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I wonder about the conversion process. We’re all in SL now; how long would it take to convert to a goggle-based format? And what happens if you have your goggles, but your friends don’t?
[2013/01/29 15:47]  Scarp Godenot: I’ll bet they won’t have purple octopus slippers….
[2013/01/29 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: AFAIK there are SL viewers which do stereoscopic vision for goggles…
[2013/01/29 15:47]  Zobeid Zuma: There was a 3D stereo viewer for SL at one time, by the way. It didn’t catch on…
[2013/01/29 15:47]  Ivy Sunkiller: changing camera to support fish eye shouldn’t be a problem, I’ve seen games do it since Quake 1 😛
[2013/01/29 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Zo
[2013/01/29 15:47]  Extropia DaSilva: How many of us use the mouselook on a regular basis?
[2013/01/29 15:48]  Zobeid Zuma: Probably because nobody had 3D monitors in those days (and not many do now).
[2013/01/29 15:48]  Scarp Godenot: I use mouselook for two things, art builds that require it and shooting silly weapons at parties.
[2013/01/29 15:48]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zo, ok, so how did it work? Say I had it and you had it. How would that affect our looking at Scarp’s feet if he didn’t have it?
[2013/01/29 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait. Are we discussing how ugly the SL UI is, and how it impacts the lack of appeal that SL has — or something entirely different? 🙂
[2013/01/29 15:48]  Zobeid Zuma: I don’t understand the problem, Rhi.
[2013/01/29 15:48]  Ivy Sunkiller: I use mouselook when shopping in-world!
[2013/01/29 15:48]  Scarp Godenot: really? mouselook for shopping?
[2013/01/29 15:48]  Zobeid Zuma: It worked by showing you the scene in 3D. It didn’t affect anybody else.
[2013/01/29 15:48]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I’m not sure there is one, Zo. But how would people with flat viewers and people with 3D viewers interact is what I’m asking.
[2013/01/29 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: that stereoscopic viewer worked just like 3D movies. If you used it, everything was ‘”3D’ed”. If not, it just looked like it always does
[2013/01/29 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: See YouTube. YT also includes stereoscopic vision in 3D for people with goggles.
[2013/01/29 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: I do not like Mouselook. It is like my primary has climbed inside my head and is seeing this world through my eyes. I prefer my primary as a distant observer.
[2013/01/29 15:49]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): So I get disoriented or need to pee and have my goggles on, what would that do to my avatar in flat people’s viewers?
[2013/01/29 15:49]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): today, text chat clients interact with 2d visuals
[2013/01/29 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Rhi
[2013/01/29 15:50]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): oh, ok, Gwyn, then aside from “OMG, they’re hitting me in the face, whicdh I get anyway, there would be no difference.
[2013/01/29 15:50]  Ivy Sunkiller: is anyone here not aware of how stereoscopic vision works? 🙂
[2013/01/29 15:50]  Ivy Sunkiller: hello Shay
[2013/01/29 15:50]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Ivy, I’m not sure I do.
[2013/01/29 15:50]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Shay
[2013/01/29 15:50]  Shay Ellison: hi and ya
[2013/01/29 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: Sony demonstrated augmented reality glasses at the CES. Do you think they have a better idea of what people are after these days?
[2013/01/29 15:50]  Zobeid Zuma: I have a 3D camera, it’s great. 😀
[2013/01/29 15:50]  Ivy Sunkiller: Rhi: basically, you get the same image shifted a bit left and right on both eyes and TADA you see in 3d
[2013/01/29 15:51]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Oh, just like those dumb glasses, then.
[2013/01/29 15:51]  Ivy Sunkiller: yes
[2013/01/29 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: I mean, of you could afford just a Rift or Google Glass, what would you buy?
[2013/01/29 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ivy described it perfectly 🙂
[2013/01/29 15:51]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I thought it might be more advanced
[2013/01/29 15:51]  Ivy Sunkiller: except in color 🙂
[2013/01/29 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: How so, Rhi?
[2013/01/29 15:51]  Zobeid Zuma: /me remembers the Futurama bit with Leela trying to use the 3D glasses in the movie theater….
[2013/01/29 15:51]  Shay Ellison: watching tron 2 in 3D was fun, but my eyes were aching a bit.
[2013/01/29 15:51]  Shay Ellison: not too keen on 3D media.
[2013/01/29 15:51]  Scarp Godenot: I see a lot of people complaining about motion sickness at the 3d movies. I even know someone who can’t use SL on their computer screen because of it.
[2013/01/29 15:51]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, don’t know; I have a vivid imagination is all
[2013/01/29 15:51]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): Zob, or the one eared artist with the stereo headset 😀
[2013/01/29 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: I know what you mean about the headaches, Shay.
[2013/01/29 15:52]  Ivy Sunkiller: I used to have some picture books with dinosaurs in 3d as a kid
[2013/01/29 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I also remember correctly… those 3D viewers for SL also could take advantage of any positioning technology
[2013/01/29 15:52]  Ivy Sunkiller: that was fun
[2013/01/29 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: so you could turn your head, and the image would pan
[2013/01/29 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: really?
[2013/01/29 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: assuming the goggles supported that
[2013/01/29 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *nods* yes —
[2013/01/29 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: there is a “joystick interface” for SL
[2013/01/29 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: they actually had 3D viewers for SL?
[2013/01/29 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: you can create plugins for that
[2013/01/29 15:52]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): That would be convenient; Gwyn; right now, it takes me *forever* to get my camera right, so I can see everyone.
[2013/01/29 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: sure Extie
[2013/01/29 15:52]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): the pan would surely lag behind
[2013/01/29 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: As zo said, it never really caught on
[2013/01/29 15:52]  Shay Ellison: can already see war applications for VR goggles.
[2013/01/29 15:52]  Scarp Godenot: /me starts thinking about his joystick interface.
[2013/01/29 15:52]  Zobeid Zuma: I wouldn’t mind getting into another MMOG sometime… but not something intense.
[2013/01/29 15:53]  Shay Ellison: would allow control of drone planes to be more precise
[2013/01/29 15:53]  Ivy Sunkiller: also, did any of you have these 3d illusion stuff, where you had a picture with seemingly random shapes, and if you stared at it and somehow forced your eyes into farsight you’d see 3d?
[2013/01/29 15:53]  Shay Ellison: and who knows what else.
[2013/01/29 15:53]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Shay, they’ve had *those* for years. First application of VR technology
[2013/01/29 15:53]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): Rhi, it takes split seconds for everybody else to get their camera right, for watching you
[2013/01/29 15:53]  Extropia DaSilva: sterograms, Ivy.
[2013/01/29 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shay: …. ah Rhi was faster
[2013/01/29 15:53]  Extropia DaSilva: *stereograms
[2013/01/29 15:53]  Shay Ellison: and if the media industries can improve on it, they might see a use for it too.
[2013/01/29 15:53]  Ivy Sunkiller: yes, that Extie!
[2013/01/29 15:53]  Sethsryt the Ravager (sethsryt.seetan): The cd of tool had one. Took some time for my eyes to get adjusted but hell.. Even the art, not only the photography looked 3d..
[2013/01/29 15:53]  Ivy Sunkiller: whispers: those were fun! “can you see it?”
[2013/01/29 15:53]  Ivy Sunkiller: whispers: 😀
[2013/01/29 15:54]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, I exaggerate, luisa; but just turning my head would be faster
[2013/01/29 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eeek. I only managed to see stereograms ONCE
[2013/01/29 15:54]  Shay Ellison: I’m well aware of helmet sensors that controls those swivel guns for those attach helicopters the army uses. 😀
[2013/01/29 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
[2013/01/29 15:54]  Ivy Sunkiller: Gwyn: that means your brain is hard to trick, you should be happy! 😉
[2013/01/29 15:54]  Shay Ellison: but I don’t even know if there’s a market for more 3D media.
[2013/01/29 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: I love them. When you see the 3d picture for the first time, I think it is the nearest you can get to imagining what it would be like to see if you were born blind.
[2013/01/29 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ivy: I thought it only meant I was too stupid to see themlol
[2013/01/29 15:54]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Shay, yeah, and the automobile and television are just passing fads; will never catch on
[2013/01/29 15:54]  Ivy Sunkiller: now you know better haha 😀
[2013/01/29 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shay: I would also raise the same question
[2013/01/29 15:55]  Shay Ellison: I mean the stuff we see movies and stories about, hologram projection in 3 dimensions, that’s very limited now, and a bit expensive. I suppose goggles will never go out of style
[2013/01/29 15:55]  Scarp Godenot: Yes, speaking of 3d media. I have a 3D capable TV and have yet to use the 3D feature.
[2013/01/29 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow Scarp 🙂
[2013/01/29 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: can you watch YouTube videos on it?
[2013/01/29 15:55]  Shay Ellison: if a visor can d it, great. would like to see such a feat with glasses, the size of the ones I wear perhaps :
[2013/01/29 15:55]  Scarp Godenot: 3D media is only available with blue ray afaik
[2013/01/29 15:55]  Extropia DaSilva: Gwyn, what worked for me was, I just relax and let my eyes defocus, and then shapes start to separate as if lifting off the page, and you shift your focus kind of on them, and you see the whole thing.
[2013/01/29 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nah, you can watch 3D YouTube videos
[2013/01/29 15:56]  Sethsryt the Ravager (sethsryt.seetan): I was shocked that one day I started up my computer and my graphics card was like. “Hey, your computer is now 3d ready.” And I was like.. Wow, already? This goes way too fast..”
[2013/01/29 15:56]  Zobeid Zuma: Everybody wants to make 3D movies a success and then hang other 3D media off that, like ornaments on a Christmas tree. But it’s backwards — 3D doesn’t really do much for movies.
[2013/01/29 15:56]  Shay Ellison: there’s a lot of bad stuff on youtube that don’t need 3D enhancement 😀
[2013/01/29 15:56]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): /me is reminded of the Second City TV where John Candy and that other, Jewish looking guy, would hold things and move them toward the camera lens, as they were in “3D”
[2013/01/29 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Extie, I’ve heard that, but, as said, it only worked for me ONCE, and only in a very limited way
[2013/01/29 15:56]  Sethsryt the Ravager (sethsryt.seetan): Don’t have the goggles yet tho..
[2013/01/29 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Seth
[2013/01/29 15:56]  Sethsryt the Ravager (sethsryt.seetan): But seems a lot of games are already 3d ready.
[2013/01/29 15:56]  Extropia DaSilva: BTW we are not talking about 3D as in ‘Avatar’ here but full immersion (albeit video and audio only) virtual reality.
[2013/01/29 15:57]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Floyd Cammenbear? No that was the character’s name.
[2013/01/29 15:57]  Zobeid Zuma: Yes.. VR when it’s done right has the potential to be mind-blowing.
[2013/01/29 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Only if it’s connected to the neural cortex 🙂
[2013/01/29 15:57]  Sethsryt the Ravager (sethsryt.seetan): Never tried goggles so not sure how far Nvidea takes it..
[2013/01/29 15:57]  Shay Ellison: wonder what problems they encountered in creating it
[2013/01/29 15:57]  Zobeid Zuma: But it’s unclear whether we’re ready to do it right yet.
[2013/01/29 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then, yes, it will literally blow the mind 🙂
[2013/01/29 15:57]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): before goggles catch on, we might see apps for cellphone based augmented reality. like, phone cam picture on display with additional hoovertext above items seen
[2013/01/29 15:57]  Shay Ellison: how long a person can go before having to remove the goggles
[2013/01/29 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What, Extie, and no full body suit?
[2013/01/29 15:57]  Shay Ellison: any side effects for having images that close to your eyes
[2013/01/29 15:57]  Ivy Sunkiller: we should check with bible wether VR is moral or not!
[2013/01/29 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just audio & video? Duh!
[2013/01/29 15:58]  Sethsryt the Ravager (sethsryt.seetan): Stereoscopic.. Hmm..
[2013/01/29 15:58]  Ivy Sunkiller: whether even
[2013/01/29 15:58]  Extropia DaSilva: Everybody who has tried the Rift says it is immersive to a scary degree.
[2013/01/29 15:58]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Shay, well, they’ve already had deaths from people who play vid games for days without eating.
[2013/01/29 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me wonders if that game has a Mac version
[2013/01/29 15:58]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): Ivy, that would have to be written in the third book, the “up to date testament”
[2013/01/29 15:58]  Shay Ellison: that’s death from not eating, not by the gaming device
[2013/01/29 15:58]  Scarp Godenot: Death from stupid
[2013/01/29 15:58]  Ivy Sunkiller: apparently just Windows
[2013/01/29 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (mmh no)
[2013/01/29 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Windows, pfft. A fading technology, and the games industry is not up to date 🙂
[2013/01/29 15:59]  Ivy Sunkiller: Luisa: the new new testament maybe? 😛
[2013/01/29 15:59]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Yes, not arguing that we should ban video games, although maybe licensing, background checks, and more attention to keep them out of the hands of the mentally ill
[2013/01/29 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: And at least one murder. Some guy was so pissed at his friend for selling an especially coveted virtual sword of his, he stabbed him to death.
[2013/01/29 15:59]  Shay Ellison: but for anything new to go mainstream, part of the struggle should be testing.
[2013/01/29 15:59]  Shay Ellison: when cars first game about, they were electric and limited. then gasoline cars were created, but they were rejected too initially
[2013/01/29 15:59]  Shay Ellison: cause gas explodes 😀
[2013/01/29 16:00]  Ivy Sunkiller: oh come on, you don’t borrow swords to sell them, the guy deserved it
[2013/01/29 16:00]  Scarp Godenot: Steam cars were first
[2013/01/29 16:00]  Zobeid Zuma: Damn, my internet connection may be failing again.
[2013/01/29 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… the “gestures” interface for consoles seems to have caught on
[2013/01/29 16:00]  luisa (luisa.bourgoin): even cars run by wood pellets
[2013/01/29 16:00]  Zobeid Zuma: I would love to revisit that feeling I had from the early days of EQ. But that’s more of a software and game design problem…. It doesn’t require new hardware. (But new hardware might provide the impetus for creating that kind of software again.)
[2013/01/29 16:00]  Extropia DaSilva: well at the moment developer kits for the Rift are to ship in March. And the commercial version, which is promised to be much better, is said to come soon after. How soon? They do not say. I am guessing 2014.
[2013/01/29 16:00]  Shay Ellison: just wondering what side effects to VR goggles would be, and what “prolonged exposure” would be defined as.
[2013/01/29 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait Extie. Are we talking about the same thing or not?
[2013/01/29 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *scratches head*
[2013/01/29 16:01]  Zobeid Zuma: They are still working on features and specifications for the commercial version!
[2013/01/29 16:01]  Ivy Sunkiller: eye ache to begin with
[2013/01/29 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is this what you’re talking about, Extie? http://www.riftgame.com/en/
[2013/01/29 16:01]  Ivy Sunkiller: probably getting your sight worse
[2013/01/29 16:01]  Zobeid Zuma: I think Extie is talking about the hardware.
[2013/01/29 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, Occulus
[2013/01/29 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
[2013/01/29 16:01]  Shay Ellison: and no set of VR goggles can stop the bad RP from those MMO games.
[2013/01/29 16:01]  Extropia DaSilva: I am talking about the Occulus Rift, a VR headset developed by Palmer Luckey.
[2013/01/29 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): All I know is that I just hit the paste button, and a huge wad of text appeared and I had to erase it
[2013/01/29 16:02]  Zobeid Zuma: I can see these two names causing confusion.
[2013/01/29 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Zo 🙂 hehe
[2013/01/29 16:02]  Ivy Sunkiller: ok
[2013/01/29 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Not that any of you care.
[2013/01/29 16:02]  Ivy Sunkiller: so the Occulus Rift is actually called “Occulus Rift”
[2013/01/29 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Extie, all I can say is… how much market will Occulus have if and when Google releases their Glasses? 🙂
[2013/01/29 16:02]  Ivy Sunkiller: that is super confusing
[2013/01/29 16:02]  Ivy Sunkiller: 😀
[2013/01/29 16:02]  Shay Ellison: well that’s what it may come down to, a battle of market politics at work.
[2013/01/29 16:03]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, Google is almost so good that they were faced with anti-trust, so they will probably be better
[2013/01/29 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And secondly, how many MMORPG developers will change all their code to work with a new thingy?
[2013/01/29 16:03]  Extropia DaSilva: It has ultra-low latency and a very wide field of view. So that means you do not see the edge of the screen but feel as though you are IN the world. And the view perfectly tracks every head movement.
[2013/01/29 16:03]  Shay Ellison: wasn’t there a bug push between HD and blue ray players with blue ray winning out?
[2013/01/29 16:03]  Scarp Godenot: Question: is any of this stuff going to be available to work with second life? Or possible even?
[2013/01/29 16:03]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes.
[2013/01/29 16:03]  Shay Ellison: and who knows what the next 3D prototype eyeware is gonne be.
[2013/01/29 16:03]  Zobeid Zuma: BTW, there were several MMOGs that tried to create less competitive, low-stress and relaxed-pace game environments. But they were overshadowed by the battle and level-grinding games.
[2013/01/29 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Extie, but that depends on the software too
[2013/01/29 16:03]  Shay Ellison: and which the market and consumers will favor
[2013/01/29 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Scarp: possible, sure
[2013/01/29 16:03]  Ivy Sunkiller: dammit, whole that time I believed they were just demoing it on Rift the game 😀
[2013/01/29 16:03]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes that is true, Gywn.
[2013/01/29 16:03]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Scarp, I raised those questions about fifteen minutes ago; where were you?
[2013/01/29 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: so was I, Ivy!!
[2013/01/29 16:03]  Scarp Godenot: Why isn’t LL making this a priority?
[2013/01/29 16:04]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I’m satisfied from the responses that they will be available
[2013/01/29 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because, uh, LL has way too many priorities lol
[2013/01/29 16:04]  Zobeid Zuma: There is a question of whether it will be practical to use with SL.
[2013/01/29 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like, say, Dio
[2013/01/29 16:04]  Shay Ellison: lag. in 3D!
[2013/01/29 16:04]  Extropia DaSilva: Because SL does not update fast enough. You cannot tolerate ANY lag on the Rift.
[2013/01/29 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm
[2013/01/29 16:04]  Ivy Sunkiller: well, you can
[2013/01/29 16:04]  Shay Ellison: there goes everyone’s equilibrium 😀
[2013/01/29 16:04]  Zobeid Zuma: Today’s viewers already struggle to produce a 2D image with a decent frame rate.
[2013/01/29 16:04]  Ivy Sunkiller: as long as it’s not client side lag!
[2013/01/29 16:04]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): deja vu, that strange feeling of having heard all this before (like fifteen minutes ago)
[2013/01/29 16:05]  Extropia DaSilva: No. If the world does not update as fast as RL, you get motion sickness.
[2013/01/29 16:05]  Ivy Sunkiller: if moving in SL didn’t depend so much on the servers, it wouldn’t be a problem
[2013/01/29 16:05]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Oh, no! We aren’t caught in a Time loop are we?
[2013/01/29 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t know, I happen to know some people who never have lag in SL… 😉
[2013/01/29 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: lol
[2013/01/29 16:05]  Ivy Sunkiller: impossible Gwyn!
[2013/01/29 16:05]  Shay Ellison: wouldn’tcall lag a time loop
[2013/01/29 16:05]  Zobeid Zuma: SL is not a high-performance environment.
[2013/01/29 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *shrugs* I’m just repeating what they claim
[2013/01/29 16:05]  Extropia DaSilva: It;s just a jump to the left! And then a step to the Ri-i-iiight…(Extie does the time warp again).
[2013/01/29 16:05]  Shay Ellison: I think it’s we who are high performance with our expectations of SL
[2013/01/29 16:06]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Shay, no, but a repeat of the same points in a conversation might indicate that, esp. as no one seems aware of it
[2013/01/29 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Shay — well said!!
[2013/01/29 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me claps
[2013/01/29 16:06]  Ivy Sunkiller: I’d like to be able to disable sim-based physics
[2013/01/29 16:06]  Shay Ellison: still, anyone notice some developer trends in 3D media?
[2013/01/29 16:06]  Shay Ellison: anything that clues us into the direction they’ll go?
[2013/01/29 16:06]  Zobeid Zuma: It’s only natural to compare SL with other games. (Despite SL not being exactly a “game”.)
[2013/01/29 16:06]  Ivy Sunkiller: have all the physics done just in the viewer and have the sim act as a dumb terminal
[2013/01/29 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi, you have been repeating yourself for the past 15 minutes about the repetitions on this session 🙂
[2013/01/29 16:07]  Ivy Sunkiller: read: have it work as it’s done in games
[2013/01/29 16:07]  Scarp Godenot: So why would it be so complicated? seems to me like the goggles would just be sl now for each eye….
[2013/01/29 16:07]  Ivy Sunkiller: that would make it much more responsive
[2013/01/29 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ivy: I thought that was what Project Sunshine is going to do…?
[2013/01/29 16:07]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I was thinking that with the helmet feature, camming would be more natural. But tell me, Zoe, what would happen if you had a 3D viewer and your friend’s only had a 2D viewer?
[2013/01/29 16:07]  Shay Ellison: oh, finally got the futurama reference. I saw that one too.
[2013/01/29 16:07]  Ivy Sunkiller: Gwyn: never heard of that!
[2013/01/29 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: But still..how cool would it be to be ACTUALLY sitting next to Ari and Ivy with Rhi in the periphery of my vision and I look up and the sunlight sparkles through the trees and I totally feel as if I am HERE?
[2013/01/29 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No?
[2013/01/29 16:07]  Zobeid Zuma: Nothing would happen, Rhi.
[2013/01/29 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Part of the physics are ALREADY being processd client-side — everything related to pathfinding
[2013/01/29 16:07]  Scarp Godenot: with purple octopus slippers!
[2013/01/29 16:07]  Zobeid Zuma: It would have no effect.
[2013/01/29 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I swear that you said that before, Zo. Another indication of a time loop
[2013/01/29 16:08]  Ivy Sunkiller: Gwyn: yes, but it has to be verified on the sim at all times, doesn’t it?
[2013/01/29 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: I thought they were insects, Scarp.
[2013/01/29 16:08]  Shay Ellison: oooh! we doing the time warp?
[2013/01/29 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: it’s just a jump to the left…
[2013/01/29 16:08]  Shay Ellison: or just warping time with our own minds? that actually makes more sense
[2013/01/29 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ivy: that’s just the start 🙂 LL has way more plans for getting most things done on the viewer side 🙂
[2013/01/29 16:08]  Scarp Godenot: Comforts the Octopi for being called insects….
[2013/01/29 16:09]  Zobeid Zuma: Tell me, Rhi… If you have Viewer 2/3 and I have Firestorm, what happens? How can that work? OMG, how can we deal with that?!
[2013/01/29 16:09]  Ivy Sunkiller: Gwyn: well, forgive me for the language, HIGH FUCKING TIME
[2013/01/29 16:09]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): omg, I’m so used to my new computer, which always had instant, fast connection to the internet, I stopped looking at the bars; I only have 2 bars. I could disappear too at any second.
[2013/01/29 16:09]  Shay Ellison: what about software engines for 3D hardware?
[2013/01/29 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the transcript of this session will be VERY weird, with all these time warps)
[2013/01/29 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ivy: oh yes. I agree. Expected for April or so
[2013/01/29 16:09]  Shay Ellison: LL isn’t going to waste a bunch of money on their experiment if it’s prohibitively expensive.
[2013/01/29 16:09]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): So then, Zo, it seems to me that we could easily have 3D viewers for SL.
[2013/01/29 16:09]  Ivy Sunkiller: \o/
[2013/01/29 16:09]  Ivy Sunkiller: roll out games in SL!
[2013/01/29 16:09]  Shay Ellison: but if there’s some 3D engines out there that they can start with, it could come up in the future
[2013/01/29 16:10]  Shay Ellison: otherwise the lindens won’t have much motivation to implement it.
[2013/01/29 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: yes. I don’t see any problem really.
[2013/01/29 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nah, Shay. LL won’t drop their engine, ever
[2013/01/29 16:10]  Scarp Godenot: OK so I’m running sl at about 40 fps at the moment, if I had two feeds, one for each eye, couldn’t I run a 3D goggle simulation at 20 fps?
[2013/01/29 16:10]  Shay Ellison: but then again, our machines have some 3D software drivers already that are common. directx and other
[2013/01/29 16:10]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): So it will be a case of supply and demand; enough people want them, and it will happen.
[2013/01/29 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: They have literally put a billion dollars in developing it!
[2013/01/29 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Scarp: you do NOT get a different feed for the other eye
[2013/01/29 16:10]  Extropia DaSilva: One thing people have a hard time adjusting to, is that with the Rift you do not need to use the right thumbstick (the one that ‘turns your head’ in the gameworld) because just turning your head does the trick.
[2013/01/29 16:10]  Zobeid Zuma: I don’t have DirectX. 😛
[2013/01/29 16:10]  Shay Ellison: I can see potential for a plugin that can make the 3D stand out more in goggles.
[2013/01/29 16:11]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, true, and a billion here and a billion there and soon you’re talking real money.
[2013/01/29 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s nice maths that do the trick: the same feed will work.
[2013/01/29 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Rhi 😀
[2013/01/29 16:11]  Scarp Godenot: Just offset the second feed slightly and your brain would do the rest of the work for 3D effect.
[2013/01/29 16:11]  Shay Ellison: the more processing that’s done in the device though, the less work the computer has to do, so we’ll see chipsets and whatnot for those 3D goggles getting developed too
[2013/01/29 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: You don’t even need a “second feed” really…
[2013/01/29 16:12]  Shay Ellison: just a high enough frequency 😉
[2013/01/29 16:12]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Now what happens if you mis type and find yourself moving in 3D? You might end up bonking yourself against a wall
[2013/01/29 16:12]  Shay Ellison: with a tteeny bit of shifting
[2013/01/29 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Shay. I wonder how the Occulus deals with that. It might simply have all required 3D processing built in
[2013/01/29 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: i.e. you just send it polygons
[2013/01/29 16:12]  Shay Ellison: it makes the device more expensive though.
[2013/01/29 16:12]  Extropia DaSilva: I do not think it does, Gwyn.
[2013/01/29 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed.
[2013/01/29 16:12]  Shay Ellison: in time we may see it focused more on the software end. even our laptops are pushing the limits of processing speed.
[2013/01/29 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. Well. No problem really
[2013/01/29 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3D, like we do it today is really *nothing special*
[2013/01/29 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or, if you prefer…
[2013/01/29 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: … it’s an amazing feat of maths
[2013/01/29 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: I mean, it might do. But I saw nothing about that said on its tech spec page.
[2013/01/29 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that’s it. Maths. Simple eye trickery 🙂
[2013/01/29 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Granted, it took 20-30 years to understand how simple it is.
[2013/01/29 16:13]  Ivy Sunkiller: aha
[2013/01/29 16:13]  Scarp Godenot: All of our vision is simple eye trickery
[2013/01/29 16:13]  Ivy Sunkiller: Gwyn: isn’t it “Project Shining”?
[2013/01/29 16:13]  Shay Ellison: if you’re old enough to remember the days of bulletin boards in 8 colors–not 8 bit, just 8 colors–at the dawn of the internets, you’ll be more thankful for the 3D software we have today 😀
[2013/01/29 16:13]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, the same thing could be said of relativity physics.
[2013/01/29 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (probably, Ivy, lol )
[2013/01/29 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: YES
[2013/01/29 16:14]  Ivy Sunkiller: just reading on it, “Project Sunshine” is server side texture baking when changing outfits
[2013/01/29 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Shay — yeeees
[2013/01/29 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ivy: that’s one of the many many many many improvements they have
[2013/01/29 16:14]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes the graphics were not so great. But I pine for the music of Rob Hubbard;)
[2013/01/29 16:14]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Shay, I heard my mother talk about that; sounds painful
[2013/01/29 16:14]  Shay Ellison: particle effects that are in 3D would be a possible change to SL
[2013/01/29 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aren’t particle effects in 3D?
[2013/01/29 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *scratches head*
[2013/01/29 16:15]  Shay Ellison: yes and no.
[2013/01/29 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me is confused
[2013/01/29 16:15]  Shay Ellison: in SL it’s client controlled
[2013/01/29 16:15]  Ivy Sunkiller: Gwyn: yes, reading up on it, good stuff
[2013/01/29 16:15]  Ivy Sunkiller: I need to follow the news on SL more, it seems I’m missing out!
[2013/01/29 16:15]  Shay Ellison: and while you can stretch the texture used, it’s always facing your focal point in the viewer.
[2013/01/29 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, as we were saying, the next generation of SL viewers will do everything on the client, or, rather, as much as feasible
[2013/01/29 16:15]  Shay Ellison: perhaps some 3D software that gets developed can be added to SL viewers. if it survives that long.
[2013/01/29 16:15]  Scarp Godenot: particles are two d images that always face the viewer. If you had offset of the eyes, that wouldn’t work
[2013/01/29 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ivy: hehe — don’t fret, you’ll soon notice the changes 🙂
[2013/01/29 16:16]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Can just see it. Someone comes in your room while you have your google goggles on, and you’re swatting at imaginary things, trying to get the particles out. ‘Oh, nvm; you’r using your goggles again.”
[2013/01/29 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, I see, Scarp.
[2013/01/29 16:16]  Ivy Sunkiller: Shay: SL does have particle effects? 😛
[2013/01/29 16:16]  Shay Ellison: we have to generate all the textures for it.
[2013/01/29 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: yes, so the natural expansion is wear Occulus and use Kinect or something like that.
[2013/01/29 16:16]  Shay Ellison: but they’re 2D images that don’t benefit from polygons.
[2013/01/29 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: From the SL viewer’s perspective, this can be done TODAY.
[2013/01/29 16:17]  Scarp Godenot: Particles are client side effects.
[2013/01/29 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, teh only real limitation is the server-side lag
[2013/01/29 16:17]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): if it’s 3D, should they be polyhedrons?
[2013/01/29 16:17]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Just asking.
[2013/01/29 16:17]  Extropia DaSilva: THat happened in a video demo, Rhi. This guy was like ‘oh now this fan is……OK I know, I am pawing at the air. This is not great for our viewers but seriously this fan is TRIPPY..oooo…I know this is not great television…but oooo’.
[2013/01/29 16:17]  Shay Ellison: of course, and it might changethe way partiles work
[2013/01/29 16:17]  Ivy Sunkiller: Shay: oh, so you mean just 3d-always facing the camera models? Sorry, I just jumped onto the thread and am out of context
[2013/01/29 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Scarp: soon, *everything* will be client-side effects. That’s what the next-generation viewers are bringing to us 🙂
[2013/01/29 16:17]  Shay Ellison: but then they’d no longer be particles specifically, but can still be manipulated like them.
[2013/01/29 16:18]  Shay Ellison: now that’d be quite a treat
[2013/01/29 16:18]  Shay Ellison: I’d still keep it client side though.
[2013/01/29 16:18]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Yeah, I can see that happening, Extie
[2013/01/29 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Someone did that for OpenSim, though., Shay
[2013/01/29 16:18]  Scarp Godenot: Well Gwyn, that will make things much better…. heh
[2013/01/29 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can see that happening in SL in 2013, Extie.
[2013/01/29 16:18]  Shay Ellison: and don’t worry, we sorta jump the thread around till it’s off a new tangent.
[2013/01/29 16:18]  Shay Ellison: what did you all start with again? I missed the first 15 minutes 😀
[2013/01/29 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2013/01/29 16:19]  Ivy Sunkiller: Occulus Rift!
[2013/01/29 16:19]  Extropia DaSilva: 2013? This IS 2013
[2013/01/29 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed
[2013/01/29 16:19]  Ivy Sunkiller: which apparently has nothing to do with Rift
[2013/01/29 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, Shay, right now, a LOT is already done client-side
[2013/01/29 16:19]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Shay, don’t worry; we tend to have time loops here; we’ll be talking about this again in fifteen minutes
[2013/01/29 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gestures, for instance.
[2013/01/29 16:19]  Shay Ellison: until you play Rift with the Rift
[2013/01/29 16:19]  Scarp Godenot: I think true immersive 3D goggles for SL would definitely bring in a new crop of people who would want to check it out.
[2013/01/29 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Scarp: yes, about a hundred 😛
[2013/01/29 16:19]  Ivy Sunkiller: coming up with buzzwords should be a crime
[2013/01/29 16:19]  Ivy Sunkiller: punishable with forced watching of (male) gay porn
[2013/01/29 16:19]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Ivy, it is now, but only when Republicans do it
[2013/01/29 16:19]  Shay Ellison: buzzwords sell stuff.
[2013/01/29 16:19]  Shay Ellison: apparently we like them *shrugs*
[2013/01/29 16:20]  Shay Ellison: okay, get 3D porn out of your head for a bit 😉
[2013/01/29 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2013/01/29 16:20]  Ivy Sunkiller: cocks in 3d, now that’s something
[2013/01/29 16:20]  Shay Ellison: omg they’re gonna run with that idea, they already make a lot of money.
[2013/01/29 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2013/01/29 16:20]  Scarp Godenot: Porn will be the first killer app, as it is with all technology.
[2013/01/29 16:20]  Shay Ellison: porn on the go, and in 3D
[2013/01/29 16:20]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, we do you say, about a hundred? The same thing was said when SL first started. Oh, about a hundred. When it got to 50,000, it was said, ‘yeah, but for only 2 minutes; they come, go ‘shrug’ and leave.
[2013/01/29 16:20]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And now…
[2013/01/29 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: So we have the goggles now. All we need is the haptic bodysuit and I would never leave Seren’s bedroom again. Ever. She would not let me.
[2013/01/29 16:20]  Zobeid Zuma: Yes… I can see people shelling out for goggles so they can watch their avs have badly animated sex in 3D.
[2013/01/29 16:21]  Ivy Sunkiller: not just any porn
[2013/01/29 16:21]  Ivy Sunkiller: the PoV porn!
[2013/01/29 16:21]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zo, no joke; I’m sure they will.
[2013/01/29 16:21]  Ivy Sunkiller: they? I’ll be the first custome
[2013/01/29 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, good point, Rhi. I should rephrase that. In about ten years, we will have a million users using goggles and gestures in SL 🙂
[2013/01/29 16:21]  Ivy Sunkiller: +r
[2013/01/29 16:21]  Shay Ellison: warning, side effects of 3D porn may include: social dysfunction with family and friends, loss of job, loss of traditional sex, and death
[2013/01/29 16:22]  Scarp Godenot: We owe the internet backbone getting developed so rapidly to all the money that porn generated in the early days.
[2013/01/29 16:22]  Shay Ellison: consult your doctor 😀
[2013/01/29 16:22]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Shay, but isn’t that true of VW now?
[2013/01/29 16:22]  Ivy Sunkiller: Shay: so, it’s just like SL?
[2013/01/29 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh. Death is a side effect of anything really.
[2013/01/29 16:22]  Shay Ellison: it’s just like that broadway play said
[2013/01/29 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: But with the new generations of motion Kinects it need not be badlly animated because your avvie would perfectly reproduce your movements. Granted THEY may be badly animated;)
[2013/01/29 16:22]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): /me locks eyes with Ivy and giggles.
[2013/01/29 16:22]  Shay Ellison: death from SL I’m not sure about
[2013/01/29 16:22]  Shay Ellison: unless you go picking people up RL from your SL experiences
[2013/01/29 16:22]  Ivy Sunkiller: from dehydration!
[2013/01/29 16:22]  Sethsryt the Ravager (sethsryt.seetan): Hey, how would 3d sl rape be classified then? Is it a crime, or just a bother?
[2013/01/29 16:23]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Shay, oh, eventually, someone will commit suicide from being bullied in SL. And then…
[2013/01/29 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Now that’s another story, Extie. What used to be called “avatar puppeteering”. Another abandoned project by LL.
[2013/01/29 16:23]  Shay Ellison: now a savy user plugged into SL 24/7 would have a constant water source nearby 😀
[2013/01/29 16:23]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): “On Today’s Dr. Phill; Death by virtual reality…”
[2013/01/29 16:23]  Scarp Godenot: Avatars reproducing movements would be pretty boring. Lots of chair sitting.
[2013/01/29 16:23]  Scarp Godenot: haha
[2013/01/29 16:23]  Extropia DaSilva: 🙂
[2013/01/29 16:23]  Extropia DaSilva: yes!
[2013/01/29 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: that eerily sounds like that CSI:NY episode in SL, in 2007…
[2013/01/29 16:23]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Scarp, well, here, yes.
[2013/01/29 16:23]  Shay Ellison: it’ll help those talk shows ratings if nothing else.
[2013/01/29 16:23]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, oh, I’ve seen that one.
[2013/01/29 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Scarp., yes
[2013/01/29 16:23]  Ivy Sunkiller: I think Everquest Next wants to have face “puppeteering”
[2013/01/29 16:23]  Shay Ellison: beats the whole “Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!” experience
[2013/01/29 16:24]  Ivy Sunkiller: that’s going to be rather bizzare
[2013/01/29 16:24]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And then there was the episode of Ghost Whisperer, where the spirit occupied SL.
[2013/01/29 16:24]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Came after you through your avatar.
[2013/01/29 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: that was also discussed for SL at some point, too. Scary, to say the least
[2013/01/29 16:24]  Scarp Godenot: /me has visions of someone performing sexually while all alone in a room with avatar body movement connection.
[2013/01/29 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh.
[2013/01/29 16:24]  Ivy Sunkiller: Scrap: give me 5 minutes I’ll find relevant youtube clip 😛
[2013/01/29 16:25]  Shay Ellison: we sorta have tunnle vision when looking at our TVs, monitors and phones.
[2013/01/29 16:25]  Scarp Godenot: heh
[2013/01/29 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nice analogy, Shay!
[2013/01/29 16:25]  Sethsryt the Ravager (sethsryt.seetan): Good olde text roleplay, where will it be?
[2013/01/29 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Here 🙂
[2013/01/29 16:25]  Shay Ellison: but if a VR headset can isolate you from the world around you aside from touch
[2013/01/29 16:25]  Extropia DaSilva: People will forget the camera maps facial expressions onto your avvie. So Ari here would say ‘I like your dress!’ while wearing an expression somewhere between laughter and shock horror.
[2013/01/29 16:25]  Ari (arisia.vita): 🙂
[2013/01/29 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shay: … then buy a full body suit for touch :=)
[2013/01/29 16:25]  Shay Ellison: you could literally get off to some 3D porn anywhere and not care or see the people around you being offended
[2013/01/29 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Extie
[2013/01/29 16:25]  Shay Ellison: but you’ll proably notice when you get picked up and thrown out 😀
[2013/01/29 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *chuckles*
[2013/01/29 16:26]  Ivy Sunkiller: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNIe_UwHPU0
[2013/01/29 16:26]  Ivy Sunkiller: there!
[2013/01/29 16:26]  Shay Ellison: some states have laws punishing people who use cell phones while driving
[2013/01/29 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me watches Ivy’s video
[2013/01/29 16:26]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): /me envisions people falling on their faces in RL, and others going, ‘oH, another person got banned from a sim in SL.’
[2013/01/29 16:26]  Shay Ellison: I’m sure a full headset would not even be allowed on your head if the engine is on
[2013/01/29 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shay: aye, like here in Europe
[2013/01/29 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: 3D porn is not interesting for me, but having sex with my partner more immersive and intimate, yes I would like that.
[2013/01/29 16:26]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Another example of how we are imitating repressive Europe. Sigh.
[2013/01/29 16:27]  Shay Ellison: takes phone sex and skyping to the next level
[2013/01/29 16:27]  Extropia DaSilva: yeah.
[2013/01/29 16:27]  Shay Ellison: still no smello-vision
[2013/01/29 16:27]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Guess turn about is fair play; they imitated us in the 19th century
[2013/01/29 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hehe Ivy, nice video)
[2013/01/29 16:27]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Oh, thank God, Shay.
[2013/01/29 16:27]  Ivy Sunkiller: watch till the end 😉
[2013/01/29 16:27]  Shay Ellison: I don’t know, for those cooking shows it might be nice
[2013/01/29 16:27]  Shay Ellison: or a form of self torture.
[2013/01/29 16:27]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I would not be able to attend bryce’s meeting, as I finish cleaning my room right about then.
[2013/01/29 16:27]  Shay Ellison: food you can smell but never eat 😀
[2013/01/29 16:27]  Extropia DaSilva: I mean, I have a VERY good imagination and my lover is VERY good at feeding it. So the sex is good. But I hope it can get even better over the years.
[2013/01/29 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Most things do, Extie 🙂
[2013/01/29 16:28]  Extropia DaSilva: yay!
[2013/01/29 16:28]  Extropia DaSilva: OO two minutes left, people.
[2013/01/29 16:28]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): But the more ‘immersive’ virtuality is, the less you’d use your imagination, Extie
[2013/01/29 16:28]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Yay! Zo and I made it to the end.
[2013/01/29 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excellent point, RHi 🙂
[2013/01/29 16:29]  Shay Ellison: unless you were developing for it 😉
[2013/01/29 16:29]  Ivy Sunkiller: who needs imagination when you have a GPU!
[2013/01/29 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh, weren’t you both expecting to make it, Zo & Rhi?
[2013/01/29 16:29]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): We both had connectivity problems, Gwyn
[2013/01/29 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh I see!
[2013/01/29 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry to hear that.
[2013/01/29 16:29]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Don’t be sorry; in my case, false alarm.
[2013/01/29 16:29]  Ivy Sunkiller: and, actually, you still do need imagination to design the environment 🙂
[2013/01/29 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, then I’m happy to hear it was a false alarm!
[2013/01/29 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: OK one minute left so vote time! At last, VR is about to deliver on its promises! YES or NO?
[2013/01/29 16:30]  Ivy Sunkiller: in fact, the more advanced the tech, the more imagination you need to design graphics with it 🙂
[2013/01/29 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ivy: for some, all you would need are two avatars 😉
[2013/01/29 16:30]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Maybe!
[2013/01/29 16:30]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): That’s my vote
[2013/01/29 16:30]  Zobeid Zuma: MAYBE!
[2013/01/29 16:30]  Shay Ellison: we’ll see.
[2013/01/29 16:30]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Maybe!
[2013/01/29 16:30]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): /me locks eyes with Zo and giggles.
[2013/01/29 16:30]  Scarp Godenot: Needs to experience it first
[2013/01/29 16:30]  Zobeid Zuma: Also, “I hope so.”
[2013/01/29 16:30]  Ivy Sunkiller: /me imagines two default avatars having sex in SL
[2013/01/29 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: Yeah I guess we should wait and see.
[2013/01/29 16:30]  Ivy Sunkiller: /me silently vomits in mouth
[2013/01/29 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: You have the hardware, but you need the killer app for it. So… maybe.
[2013/01/29 16:30]  Scarp Godenot: haha Ivy
[2013/01/29 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ivy! LOL
[2013/01/29 16:31]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Wow, this is almost like the vote for John Kerry as Secretary of sTate; only 3 no’s. We all agree!
[2013/01/29 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me remembers VR goggles & gloves in 1992.
[2013/01/29 16:31]  Extropia DaSilva: OK I am going to put that into my poem..
[2013/01/29 16:31]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): It’s a DEFINITE Maybe!
[2013/01/29 16:31]  Extropia DaSilva: but first..
[2013/01/29 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[2013/01/29 16:31]  Extropia DaSilva: my time is up!
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