Thinkers July 24 2012: Deathbed Regrets

David Endrizzi at Thinkers

Extropia DaSilva: Welcome to Thinkers!
[2012/07/24 15:30]  Extropia DaSilva: Today’s topic for discussion is….
[2012/07/24 15:30]  Extropia DaSilva: The number one regret voiced on the deathbed is ‘I wish I had not worked so hard’. What should we learn from this?
[2012/07/24 15:30]  Lulu Lacrima: that tonight instead of doing everlasting paperwork, I am here in SL?
[2012/07/24 15:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Lulu
[2012/07/24 15:31]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, it’s along the same lines–the more time I could have spent with the people I love
[2012/07/24 15:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well. It’s important to learn not to take things SO seriously 🙂
[2012/07/24 15:31]  Zobeid Zuma: So there’s a bit of spin involved, eh?
[2012/07/24 15:31]  Extropia DaSilva: that is the number two regret, Rhi: ‘I wish I spent more time with my family and friends’.
[2012/07/24 15:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, interesting. But not surprising at all.
[2012/07/24 15:32]  Lulu Lacrima: not to minimize the desire to spend more time with with those you love, but what about the time you must spend with yourself?
[2012/07/24 15:32]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Good point, lulu
[2012/07/24 15:32]  Zobeid Zuma: Well, we just need cloning technology! That should solve it.
[2012/07/24 15:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The point is, what was all that work worth for, when you’re considering you’re not going to take any of it when you die?
[2012/07/24 15:32]  Lulu Lacrima: it’s an existential question
[2012/07/24 15:32]  Extropia DaSilva: So I should die a contented woman, because spending time with friends is pretty much all I do.
[2012/07/24 15:32]  Lulu Lacrima: some people believe you DO take it with you when you die
[2012/07/24 15:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The work? 🙂
[2012/07/24 15:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope they have good wi-fi connections in Hell then.
[2012/07/24 15:33]  Lulu Lacrima: ho ho ho
[2012/07/24 15:33]  Zobeid Zuma: I think a multi-Zobeid world would be an improvement.
[2012/07/24 15:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait. They must. They cannot be worse than the one I ave here!
[2012/07/24 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: so why do people work so hard?
[2012/07/24 15:34]  Lulu Lacrima: now now, let’s discuss this like thinkers: is there anybody here who does NOT believe you take “it with you” when you die?
[2012/07/24 15:34]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, well, if you make the work meaningful here and now, that wouldn’t be an issue
[2012/07/24 15:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: I suggest that anyone who spends ALL the time with their friends and does NOTHING ELSE will use that as the cause of regret when dying.
[2012/07/24 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: *Raises hand*
[2012/07/24 15:34]  Blue Ronsein: I do not believe you take it with you
[2012/07/24 15:34]  Lulu Lacrima: what’s the point of good works if it doesn’t serve you in an afterlife?
[2012/07/24 15:34]  David Endrizzi: i’ve been a burden in life, i don’t want to be a burden as i’m dying, or after i’ve gone
[2012/07/24 15:34]  Blue Ronsein: the point is that it satisfies you
[2012/07/24 15:34]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Lulu, well, some would say there isn’t a point in good works–it expresses good will
[2012/07/24 15:34]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And there is the spiritual harmony you get
[2012/07/24 15:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Very good point, Lulu. Can you answer it by yourself? 🙂
[2012/07/24 15:35]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): All sorts of “this worldly” reasons to be good
[2012/07/24 15:35]  Lulu Lacrima: Rhia, some would say that the express reason for existence is to do good works for other human beings
[2012/07/24 15:35]  Lulu Lacrima: *express reason for OUR existence
[2012/07/24 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: …. because you will take that with you in your afterlife, Lulu?
[2012/07/24 15:35]  Lulu Lacrima: no, because it serves an evolutionary purpose
[2012/07/24 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: Well there is the ‘legacy’ argument. If you lead an extraordinary life your life lives on in culture. Steve Jobs, for instance. His name and what he achieved in his lifetime will be remembered for generations to come.
[2012/07/24 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. That’s more interesting! Please go on. *listens*
[2012/07/24 15:36]  Lulu Lacrima: but is still meaningful–if it were not meaningful, then there would be no motivation to treat others well
[2012/07/24 15:36]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Lulu, well, that would probably take an afterlife to make work.
[2012/07/24 15:36]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Or at least a belief in one
[2012/07/24 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What would a “Meaningful” thing be?
[2012/07/24 15:36]  Lulu Lacrima: I don’t think belief in an afterlife is required for the evolutionary argument
[2012/07/24 15:36]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): It is required for the motivation for it
[2012/07/24 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm.
[2012/07/24 15:36]  Lulu Lacrima: although I would never know if my puny efforts were successful
[2012/07/24 15:37]  Zobeid Zuma: I’m skeptical of any argument that draws deep meaning from evolution. I mean, bacteria evolve. Big deal.
[2012/07/24 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles @ Zo 🙂
[2012/07/24 15:37]  Lulu Lacrima: nope, not required for the motivation of it….just that the motivation exists is what enables the mere *possibility* that it will be a successful strategy
[2012/07/24 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have to ask Lulu about what she defines as the “evolutionary argument”….
[2012/07/24 15:37]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zo, agreed. All deep meaning has to be spiritual, not merely material, even biologically material
[2012/07/24 15:37]  Lulu Lacrima: there’s no deep meaning, zo, which is kinda my point
[2012/07/24 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: Well religion, according to the evolutionary argument, came about because our mind’s evolved to see agency in the world around us.
[2012/07/24 15:38]  Lulu Lacrima: uh, the “evolutionary argument” is in reference to Rhi’s reply earlier that it would require an ‘afterlife to make work”
[2012/07/24 15:38]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, if we are going to be shallow, then we *definitely* need reasons in terms of immediate pleasure
[2012/07/24 15:39]  Lulu Lacrima: I.E., good works towards others
[2012/07/24 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I dont know what the “evolutionary argument” is! That’s why I was asking.
[2012/07/24 15:39]  Lulu Lacrima: sorry Gwyn, let me try a different tack
[2012/07/24 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: … also, if one’s work is sort of improving other people’s lives and not just our own, why should we ‘regret’ it at the deathbed?
[2012/07/24 15:40]  Extropia DaSilva: *Shrugs* I do not know…I thought it was a reference to Denett’s book on the origins of religion.
[2012/07/24 15:40]  Zobeid Zuma: The real problem here is that we shouldn’t have to work.
[2012/07/24 15:40]  Extropia DaSilva: OO!
[2012/07/24 15:40]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, then we could regret–gosh, I could have had a Porsch. Darn it.
[2012/07/24 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn hasn’t read Denett
[2012/07/24 15:40]  Extropia DaSilva: Now there is a thought..
[2012/07/24 15:40]  Lulu Lacrima: I meant that I disagreed with Rhi when she suggested that it would be impt to “know” whether or not good works were evolutionarily successful
[2012/07/24 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Work: something you have to be paid for to do”
[2012/07/24 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Lulu!
[2012/07/24 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[2012/07/24 15:40]  Blue Ronsein: I am of the school that people do things to saitisfy their own needs, and sometimes those needs include serving and helping others
[2012/07/24 15:40]  Lulu Lacrima: more sense Gwn?
[2012/07/24 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: A bit more sense!
[2012/07/24 15:41]  Lulu Lacrima: ok
[2012/07/24 15:41]  Extropia DaSilva: Do we need work or not? I mean, is it fundamental to wellbeing as we are often told or could we spend our whole lives just…relaxing?
[2012/07/24 15:41]  Blue Ronsein: We’ve evolved to the point on the ladder
[2012/07/24 15:41]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Oh, I didn’t suggest that at all. Don’t remember what I said, but no, I think that work should be, ideally, mat erially and spiritually rewarding.
[2012/07/24 15:41]  Lulu Lacrima: well, rhia, sometimes you do like to bait me a little 😉
[2012/07/24 15:41]  Lulu Lacrima: 🙂
[2012/07/24 15:41]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Rhiannon of the Birds looks innocent
[2012/07/24 15:41]  Lulu Lacrima: Lulu Lacrima chuckles to herself
[2012/07/24 15:41]  David Endrizzi: i have a question. if i affirm that I have a faith that involves my relationship with a person i believe to be the one who created me, do you insist that i have a religion?
[2012/07/24 15:42]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes.
[2012/07/24 15:42]  Lulu Lacrima: David, I wouldn’t label it
[2012/07/24 15:42]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): But there’s nothing wrong with religion in that sense, David
[2012/07/24 15:42]  David Endrizzi: how do you know?
[2012/07/24 15:42]  Lulu Lacrima: but others would probably label it religious, sure
[2012/07/24 15:43]  Lulu Lacrima: no problem with that here
[2012/07/24 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: …although that could be your mother or if I said that it could be my primary I am talking about.
[2012/07/24 15:43]  Zobeid Zuma: Well, I don’t have that. 😛
[2012/07/24 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would consider it to be a relatively good working definition of religion
[2012/07/24 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: do not have what, Zo?
[2012/07/24 15:43]  Lulu Lacrima: David, do you feel that if you were on your deathbed you might also state that you wish you hadn’t worked so hard?
[2012/07/24 15:43]  Zobeid Zuma: What he said. NM. 😐
[2012/07/24 15:44]  David Endrizzi: no
[2012/07/24 15:44]  Lulu Lacrima: Gwyn, I’m all about good working, operational definitions, but I think one for religion might require an entirely separate discussion hour
[2012/07/24 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: “hour”? 🙂 You’re an optimist 🙂
[2012/07/24 15:44]  Lulu Lacrima: LOOOL
[2012/07/24 15:44]  David Endrizzi: work was/is never an overriding priority for me
[2012/07/24 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: so can we get back to Zo’s point? Do we need work?
[2012/07/24 15:45]  Lulu Lacrima: of course we need work! but what *types* of work is the question
[2012/07/24 15:45]  David Endrizzi: work has never been anything more than a means to an end for me
[2012/07/24 15:45]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Work as in having to make money? Or work as in an expression of self that is creative and produces somthing?
[2012/07/24 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a strange question. It’s like asking: “Do we need the Sun?” or “Do we need water?” Well, no. We can use electric light and drink beer.
[2012/07/24 15:45]  Extropia DaSilva: Come the day when machines do all the work for us, is that something that will free us or condem us?
[2012/07/24 15:45]  Lulu Lacrima: if I lived in Tibet, I would need to work hard to provide fuel for the fires that warm my yurt & cooks the food for my family
[2012/07/24 15:45]  David Endrizzi: i’m talking about the making money sort of work
[2012/07/24 15:45]  Lulu Lacrima: ok, like 1st world kinda money?
[2012/07/24 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: you mean wage slavery, David?
[2012/07/24 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Work” for me, as a definition, is something you get paid for to do something you hate 🙂
[2012/07/24 15:46]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, it depends on how we respond to that. Rosalyn knew the Maytags (yes, those Maytags) and their kids were artists of various sorts
[2012/07/24 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you love to do it, it’s “leisure”. If you’re paid for it, you’re lucky!
[2012/07/24 15:46]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): We’d all be like that if machines did all the work
[2012/07/24 15:46]  David Endrizzi: i’ve never been a slave to wages
[2012/07/24 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: gosh, lucky you.
[2012/07/24 15:46]  Lulu Lacrima: You know what? My family thinks I’m “suffering” b/c I can’t afford to go on vacations or buy brand new cars, but what they don’t get is that the work I DON’T do makes my life so less stressful
[2012/07/24 15:46]  Lulu Lacrima: that it becomes a better quality of living
[2012/07/24 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: There you go, Lulu
[2012/07/24 15:47]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Wasn’t it Jesus who said “Money is a useful servant but a cruel master?” Or was in Ben Franklin? I get the two confused sometimes
[2012/07/24 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Rhi
[2012/07/24 15:47]  Lulu Lacrima: Rhia, I think Franklin
[2012/07/24 15:47]  David Endrizzi: it’s not that i don’t like money
[2012/07/24 15:47]  Blue Ronsein: Jesus, Rhia
[2012/07/24 15:47]  Lulu Lacrima: pretty sure not Jesus, anyway
[2012/07/24 15:47]  Lulu Lacrima: really, ok, what do I know?
[2012/07/24 15:47]  David Endrizzi: the work has never been the thing for me
[2012/07/24 15:47]  Lulu Lacrima: what has it been for you, David?
[2012/07/24 15:48]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Blue, I think you’re right. But doesn’t matter. Some guy who knew what he was saying said it
[2012/07/24 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The problem with people who regret their work at their deathbed is because they finally found out their priorities were all wrong 🙂 and it’s actually a pity they have only realised that at the last possible moment
[2012/07/24 15:48]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, yes, exactly.
[2012/07/24 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s far better to be like Lulu and realise taht much sooner in one’s lifetime
[2012/07/24 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: Do they have a choice, though?
[2012/07/24 15:48]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): So how to prevent that? Get your priorities on straight from the get-go
[2012/07/24 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!
[2012/07/24 15:48]  Blue Ronsein: Work is a broad concept though
[2012/07/24 15:48]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Or as soon as the get-go as you can
[2012/07/24 15:48]  Lulu Lacrima: I mean, my work is human service work: I am a psychologist
[2012/07/24 15:48]  David Endrizzi: for a few years it wa the girl i married, then it was the children i got to raise
[2012/07/24 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: oh yes. Freedom of will, remember? 🙂
[2012/07/24 15:49]  Lulu Lacrima: and I could work my ass off for 60 hours a week, buy a house, and go to Hawaii
[2012/07/24 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Blue; see my definition 😉
[2012/07/24 15:49]  Blue Ronsein: It is work to make relationships strong– but that’s good work isn’t it?
[2012/07/24 15:49]  David Endrizzi: since they’ve grown, i don’t know what it is
[2012/07/24 15:49]  Blue Ronsein: okay, Gwyn
[2012/07/24 15:49]  Lulu Lacrima: but I am really pretty happy to live in my studio, do good work with my clients, and take a vacation to florida
[2012/07/24 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: OK but you have a family and you need to earn to support them and you have mortgages to pay and mounting bills..
[2012/07/24 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s all personal choices.
[2012/07/24 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: My sis is online my sis my sis!
[2012/07/24 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The difficulty is realising they are, in fact, merely personal choices.
[2012/07/24 15:50]  Lulu Lacrima: I have no family to support or mortgages to pay, so maybe that skews my perspective
[2012/07/24 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No it doesn’t, Lulu
[2012/07/24 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: You have *chosen* that.
[2012/07/24 15:51]  David Endrizzi: of you’re saying the work was the children, tehn i can’t imagine ever saying i wish i hadn’t worked so hard
[2012/07/24 15:51]  Lulu Lacrima: Gwyn, I have, but I haven’t chosen it
[2012/07/24 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What it sows is taht others who have made different choices — family, mortgages, etc. — have different views…
[2012/07/24 15:51]  Lulu Lacrima: I would like to have a family, you know
[2012/07/24 15:51]  Lulu Lacrima: but I’m a bit too old now
[2012/07/24 15:51]  Blue Ronsein: ah, but oyou look so young, Lulu
[2012/07/24 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yu’re never too old 😉
[2012/07/24 15:51]  Ari (arisia.vita): welcome Jamie!
[2012/07/24 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: hey you!
[2012/07/24 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi Jamie!)
[2012/07/24 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: :))
[2012/07/24 15:52]  Lulu Lacrima: Ah, Blue, I love my Avi, she really does reflect my inner self 🙂
[2012/07/24 15:52]  Lulu Lacrima: hi Jamie
[2012/07/24 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh I am so happy you are back, love:))
[2012/07/24 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I still maintain that all that are choices.
[2012/07/24 15:52]  Jamie Marlin: Hello everyone
[2012/07/24 15:52]  Jamie Marlin: 🙂
[2012/07/24 15:52]  Hug & Kiss 2.0 Deluxe (top right): Jamie Marlin invited you to a couple animation, choose ‘yes’ to accept
[2012/07/24 15:52]  Zobeid Zuma: Hi Jamie
[2012/07/24 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: never mind them where is my hug!
[2012/07/24 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Choices based on perceived values and expectations — some conditioned by family, friends, society,
[2012/07/24 15:52]  Hug & Kiss 2.0 Deluxe (top right): say /50stop to stop the animation prematurely
[2012/07/24 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: some our own.
[2012/07/24 15:52]  Lulu Lacrima: Gwn, I would really have to agree in the end
[2012/07/24 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: Did your trip go OK?
[2012/07/24 15:53]  Object: Hi Extropia DaSilva! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[2012/07/24 15:53]  Lulu Lacrima: I take it we don’t believe in predestination around here?
[2012/07/24 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not me hehe
[2012/07/24 15:53]  Lulu Lacrima: re-hi Rhia-Hia
[2012/07/24 15:53]  Blue Ronsein: no, and neither does Stephen Hawking
[2012/07/24 15:54]  Lulu Lacrima: soooo, you DO believe in predestination?
[2012/07/24 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: To believe in ‘redestination’ one would have to believe in ‘something that sets the predestination’ 😉
[2012/07/24 15:54]  Blue Ronsein: absolutely not
[2012/07/24 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *predestination
[2012/07/24 15:54]  Lulu Lacrima: oh, I see your point
[2012/07/24 15:54]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Predestination? The fallacy of lazy reason, Leibnize called it
[2012/07/24 15:54]  David Endrizzi: i’m not a big fan of predestination
[2012/07/24 15:54]  Lulu Lacrima: well, even an atheistic geneticist might consider life to be predestined
[2012/07/24 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I prefer to ‘believe’ in the ability to set my own choices.
[2012/07/24 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alas, I’m not saying it’s easy.
[2012/07/24 15:55]  David Endrizzi: but i’m even less of a fan of anything i’ve heard stephen hawking say
[2012/07/24 15:55]  Lulu Lacrima: I believe in the power of human choice; it’s the root of all existential questions–and their answers
[2012/07/24 15:55]  David Endrizzi: 😮
[2012/07/24 15:55]  Zobeid Zuma: I believe in predestination and free will. 🙂
[2012/07/24 15:55]  Blue Ronsein: why is that, David?
[2012/07/24 15:55]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): But for an atheistic geneticist to say life is predestination raises the question–why did he say it, if he didn’t *choose* to
[2012/07/24 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo 🙂
[2012/07/24 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: so who or what sets either? 😉
[2012/07/24 15:56]  Blue Ronsein: Hawking has studied life using powerful science
[2012/07/24 15:56]  David Endrizzi: i simply don’t like the guy
[2012/07/24 15:56]  Lulu Lacrima: Zo, you know, I’ve thought about the idea of both predestination & free will…..
[2012/07/24 15:56]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zo, I don’t believe in predestination, but I do believe in causality and free will
[2012/07/24 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Rhi … he’s struggling with the Anthropic Principle
[2012/07/24 15:56]  Lulu Lacrima: and it’s kinda like being given your poker hand
[2012/07/24 15:56]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, since we’re on that subject–anyone here reade Leheye’s Assassins?
[2012/07/24 15:56]  David Endrizzi: he’s too self important, and the whole world seems to kiss his ass every time he inhales
[2012/07/24 15:56]  Lulu Lacrima: and yet managing to either win or lose the stakes according to how you play it
[2012/07/24 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like that, Lulu.
[2012/07/24 15:57]  Lulu Lacrima: LOOL David, Hawking IS a pretty smart guy, but I don’t feel like kissing his ass
[2012/07/24 15:57]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): A group of Christian terrorists decided to take out the anti-Christ. Choose to do so quite freely. And it ends up with the Anti-Christ’s false resurrection and infusion with the spirit of Satan–just like Prophecized
[2012/07/24 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like it very much. Good comparison. We’re all different, all with different advantages and disadvantages; how we use them is up to us.
[2012/07/24 15:57]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): That I thought was a really good way to show the compatibility between predistination and free well
[2012/07/24 15:57]  David Endrizzi: i’m a pretty smart guy too
[2012/07/24 15:57]  Blue Ronsein: Blue Ronsein re-reads what Rhia just said
[2012/07/24 15:58]  David Endrizzi: and i know people who are very smart
[2012/07/24 15:58]  Lulu Lacrima: hello Sabre
[2012/07/24 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh Rhi. The question is always: who or what sets the predestinations? 🙂
[2012/07/24 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you say, “genetics” — ok, I can’t argue against that
[2012/07/24 15:58]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): It’s more whether that interferes with our choices.
[2012/07/24 15:58]  Extropia DaSilva: The Man, Gwyn. Always The Man.
[2012/07/24 15:58]  Zobeid Zuma: Not sure what you mean, “sets the predestinations”?
[2012/07/24 15:58]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And in the classic, theological sense, there is no interference
[2012/07/24 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which Man?
[2012/07/24 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: “predestination” requires an agent that sets the “predestination”
[2012/07/24 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or else it’s just random choice 🙂
[2012/07/24 15:59]  Zobeid Zuma: I guess that would be all of us.
[2012/07/24 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: “all of us”:
[2012/07/24 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: How so?
[2012/07/24 15:59]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Jamie and sabreman. You came in when I crashed
[2012/07/24 15:59]  Lulu Lacrima: sabre just crashed I think
[2012/07/24 15:59]  Lulu Lacrima: hi Jamie
[2012/07/24 15:59]  Zobeid Zuma: By doing things. By interacting with the universe. By making decisions. You can’t change the future, but everything you do shapes it.
[2012/07/24 15:59]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): yeah, I noticed that.
[2012/07/24 15:59]  Jamie Marlin: Hello – glad you are back
[2012/07/24 15:59]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Thanks, Jamie
[2012/07/24 15:59]  David Endrizzi: i should rephrase, i reject the notion of predestination completely
[2012/07/24 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: but is that ‘predestination’?
[2012/07/24 16:00]  Lulu Lacrima: Zo, that’s what I meant when I referenced my thought about the purpose of our existence when I was young
[2012/07/24 16:00]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): WB, sabreman
[2012/07/24 16:00]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And of course there is the question of infralapsarianism vs supralapsarianism
[2012/07/24 16:00]  Extropia DaSilva: what versus what?
[2012/07/24 16:00]  Zobeid Zuma: It’s predestination in a physical sense — the future is what it is, just as tangible as the past or present.
[2012/07/24 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s just inter-dependence
[2012/07/24 16:00]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): The view that predisination follows the Fall of Man, or precedes it.
[2012/07/24 16:00]  Lulu Lacrima: okay, rhi, you have succeeded in making everyone here pay careful attention to what you say about defining your terms 😉
[2012/07/24 16:01]  sabreman Carter: Hello Rhi
[2012/07/24 16:01]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Lulu, thank you. You’re the only one catching on to my conversational ploys
[2012/07/24 16:01]  Lulu Lacrima: re-hi Sabre
[2012/07/24 16:01]  Lulu Lacrima: lol
[2012/07/24 16:01]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I’ll have to watch myself carefully around you
[2012/07/24 16:01]  Lulu Lacrima: soo, what is infralapsarianism?
[2012/07/24 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well ok, Zo, that’s a loose definition of ‘predestination’. Of course what we do “now” will influence our future. But it’s not ‘predestination”
[2012/07/24 16:01]  Zobeid Zuma: Zobeid Zuma has missed something? 😛
[2012/07/24 16:01]  sabreman Carter: Hello Lulu
[2012/07/24 16:01]  Lulu Lacrima: vs supralapsarianism
[2012/07/24 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Infralapsarianism is the docrine that man was destined to fall from grace and sin; supralapsarianism starts the determination of sinfulness *after* the fall.
[2012/07/24 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Since we’re on the subject of predistination
[2012/07/24 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): lol
[2012/07/24 16:02]  Lulu Lacrima: Ooooh, but that suggests a belief in a diety
[2012/07/24 16:02]  David Endrizzi: i asked my daughter whether it would be okay for me to wander off into the wilderness and die alone on a mountainside, so i wouldn’t be a bother
[2012/07/24 16:02]  Zobeid Zuma: I think it’s the kind of predestination that Hawking would appreciate.
[2012/07/24 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zo, I think so too
[2012/07/24 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: ‘suggests’ is rather an understatement 🙂
[2012/07/24 16:02]  Lulu Lacrima: David, what did she say?
[2012/07/24 16:02]  David Endrizzi: then i asked my sone the same but separately
[2012/07/24 16:03]  Lulu Lacrima: hmmm, and????
[2012/07/24 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and…?
[2012/07/24 16:03]  Blue Ronsein: My nonbiblical brain is lost in scripture hell here
[2012/07/24 16:03]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): But in preparing for my Leibnitz discussions, I read where there was an experiment done. College students had to take a computer test; they were told that there was a glitch and the answers would automatically come out right unless they clikced on the button–giving the answer they thought was right.
[2012/07/24 16:03]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): 90% or more just let the machine decide for them
[2012/07/24 16:03]  Lulu Lacrima: Blue, just think about folks who believe all life is governed by the behavior of “Adam and Eve”
[2012/07/24 16:03]  David Endrizzi: they both got a bit angry, and insisted that there was no way i should even think of that
[2012/07/24 16:03]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Sooo….I guess it depends on whether we want people to be passive or not.
[2012/07/24 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: where was that test done?
[2012/07/24 16:04]  Lulu Lacrima: David, why do you think they got angry?
[2012/07/24 16:04]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I’d have to look it up; I have it somewhere on my computr
[2012/07/24 16:04]  Blue Ronsein: why can’t we just be born, live, and then die?
[2012/07/24 16:04]  Lulu Lacrima: because you took away their ability to have power over your decision?
[2012/07/24 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: I’m sure it was done on a Christian or Jewish-inspired society 🙂
[2012/07/24 16:04]  Lulu Lacrima: Blue, why not, indeed?
[2012/07/24 16:04]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Leibnitz’s point was that without free will, our lives would be pointless and determined, and we wouldn’t do anything. He thought that was much worse than a world with suffering caused by free will
[2012/07/24 16:05]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, yeah, it was a Western nation
[2012/07/24 16:05]  Lulu Lacrima: Blue, I think what happens is that the Thinkers are doomed to consider the types of things we’re discussing here
[2012/07/24 16:05]  David Endrizzi: memorials, and funerals are for the living
[2012/07/24 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, we’re back to leibniz? 🙂
[2012/07/24 16:05]  Lulu Lacrima: whereas the nonthinkers don’t care
[2012/07/24 16:05]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): But the Muslims haven’t changed since his time–he talked about their fatalism, and the still *drive* anyway like fatalists
[2012/07/24 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Lulu
[2012/07/24 16:05]  Jamie Marlin: I reject the entire idea of predestination too… but I admit that it is because I find the idea unpleasant, rather than because I have proof
[2012/07/24 16:05]  Lulu Lacrima: I’m not paying attention to Leibniz ( no offense Rhia, but I think he’s better saved for a whole discussion apart)
[2012/07/24 16:05]  Zobeid Zuma: Right…. If you write a word on the page, it isn’t really you that’s making your hand move, it’s the Will of Allah.
[2012/07/24 16:05]  David Endrizzi: they each have a notion of how they want to remember me, i guess
[2012/07/24 16:06]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zo, and how will that affect your texting? Exactly.
[2012/07/24 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well. The issue is, unlike what Zo claims, there cannot be ‘predestination’ and ‘free will’ simultaneously 🙂
[2012/07/24 16:06]  Lulu Lacrima: well, David, that’s interesting, b/c it’s like they want to construct their own “reality” of you
[2012/07/24 16:06]  Lulu Lacrima: when in fact the “true” (hypothetical) reality is not the same
[2012/07/24 16:06]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Or maybe they love him, Lulu, and want to be with him when he passes on
[2012/07/24 16:06]  Zobeid Zuma: I don’t see why there has to be a contradiction.
[2012/07/24 16:06]  Lulu Lacrima: maybe so, Rhia
[2012/07/24 16:07]  Lulu Lacrima: I don’t see a contradiction
[2012/07/24 16:07]  David Endrizzi: it turns out they’ve spoken to each other about what happens when i can’t care for myself, and about when i die
[2012/07/24 16:07]  Lulu Lacrima: oho!
[2012/07/24 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, now, Lulu, you’re getting to important points 😀
[2012/07/24 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: Hello Maybach
[2012/07/24 16:07]  Lulu Lacrima: hello Maybach
[2012/07/24 16:07]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zoe, I don’t either; again it depends on the kind of predestination. Theologically, the conflict can be resolved by God’s being outside of time. He knows you’re going to do it–at the moment you do it.
[2012/07/24 16:07]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Maybach!
[2012/07/24 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: Everyone, this is Maybach, who is my new friend:)
[2012/07/24 16:07]  Maybach Q (maybachq): hello everyone! 🙂
[2012/07/24 16:07]  Zobeid Zuma: Unless of course, we redefine “free will” and/or “predestination” to mean something strange…
[2012/07/24 16:07]  Maybach Q (maybachq): hey extropia!
[2012/07/24 16:07]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi new friend of Extie
[2012/07/24 16:07]  Lulu Lacrima: lol
[2012/07/24 16:07]  Lulu Lacrima: afk for a sec
[2012/07/24 16:08]  David Endrizzi: new friends are cool
[2012/07/24 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zoe, yeah, and that happens in the attempt to reconcile different views or to understand the issue
[2012/07/24 16:08]  Maybach Q (maybachq): brb ladies
[2012/07/24 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I usually use ‘predestination’ in the normal sense of the term: all your actions are defined in advance. Like on Greek tragedy;: you cannot avoid fate.
[2012/07/24 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And ‘free will’ I use it as an antonym: every action we take is our own decision.
[2012/07/24 16:09]  Extropia DaSilva: BTW what has any of this to do with my topic?
[2012/07/24 16:09]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, yeah, then why do anything to make things better? Now, that would be a deathbed regret–“Oh, crap, had I not believed in predestination I could have been rich, had a family.
[2012/07/24 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So you cannot have BOTH all your actions defined in advance AND the ability to make decisions 🙂
[2012/07/24 16:09]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, I just made it relevant again, I think, Extie
[2012/07/24 16:09]  Zobeid Zuma: I think we left your topic behind loooong ago, extie.
[2012/07/24 16:09]  Lulu Lacrima: back
[2012/07/24 16:09]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh well if you are happy discussing this instead…
[2012/07/24 16:09]  Lulu Lacrima: what’d I miss?
[2012/07/24 16:09]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): wb, lulu
[2012/07/24 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: because the person that dies regretting their work was just because they ‘thought’ that ‘working’ was all there is to do in this life.
[2012/07/24 16:10]  David Endrizzi: i could play with the words and say i think we’re all predestined to stumble through life doing random, or not so random acts that end up being pretty much what we thought was appropriate for the moment
[2012/07/24 16:10]  Maybach Q (maybachq): my friend sensus is coming
[2012/07/24 16:10]  Maybach Q (maybachq): hes a futurist
[2012/07/24 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I.e. a moral/ethical value, conditioned (predestined?) by society
[2012/07/24 16:10]  Maybach Q (maybachq): and life advocate
[2012/07/24 16:10]  Jamie Marlin: *gets the topic from Extropia*
[2012/07/24 16:10]  Lulu Lacrima: whoa
[2012/07/24 16:10]  Extropia DaSilva: I like him already.
[2012/07/24 16:10]  Zobeid Zuma: I would have preferred a discussion about how robots could/should/might “put everyone out of work” and whether that would be wonderful or a disaster…. But you never can tell how these things will go.
[2012/07/24 16:10]  Lulu Lacrima: wait
[2012/07/24 16:10]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Please don’t, Gwyn. lol
[2012/07/24 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: David: I think that *most* people believe that their life, at least to some degree, is predestined.
[2012/07/24 16:10]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Sensus!
[2012/07/24 16:10]  SenusretIII: hi all
[2012/07/24 16:11]  Lulu Lacrima: you really think so Gwn?
[2012/07/24 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: OK I as chairperson am going to insist we discuss what Zo suggested.
[2012/07/24 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And they behave according to what they think is their ‘fate’ 🙂
[2012/07/24 16:11]  Zobeid Zuma: It’s not like the conversation is predestined, you know!
[2012/07/24 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Zo
[2012/07/24 16:11]  Lulu Lacrima: you sort of like liked my poker hand metaphor
[2012/07/24 16:11]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, those who are successful in life don’t. Another story showed that they all have internal coci of control
[2012/07/24 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Touché 🙂
[2012/07/24 16:11]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): *loci
[2012/07/24 16:11]  David Endrizzi: if it was predestined then it’s not my fault
[2012/07/24 16:11]  Lulu Lacrima: *sort of liked
[2012/07/24 16:11]  Jamie Marlin: I would guess that ‘I wish I had not worked so hard’ is really a way of saying ‘I wish I had spent more time on things other than financial success’
[2012/07/24 16:11]  David Endrizzi: so give back everything i’ve squandered
[2012/07/24 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: who defines what ‘success in life’ is?
[2012/07/24 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: robots could/should/might “put everyone out of work” and whether that would be wonderful or a disaste
[2012/07/24 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: discuss that, or else!
[2012/07/24 16:12]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, it’s defined in the study as successfully achieving your goals–whatever they are
[2012/07/24 16:12]  Lulu Lacrima: Jamie, or perhaps “I wish I had spent more time on things more relevant to my experience of life on earth”
[2012/07/24 16:12]  Zobeid Zuma: There’s good and bad work, just like there’s good and bad cholesterol.
[2012/07/24 16:12]  SenusretIII: hi im loaded now
[2012/07/24 16:12]  Jamie Marlin: Yes… in other words “My priorities were wrong”
[2012/07/24 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh. That’s a good way to side-step the issue, Rhi 🙂 The problem is, HOW do people set goals? Are they socially conditioned to accept those goals as being ‘successful’?
[2012/07/24 16:12]  Extropia DaSilva: Hello:)
[2012/07/24 16:12]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): cool beans, sunsus
[2012/07/24 16:12]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): sensus
[2012/07/24 16:12]  Lulu Lacrima: Lulu Lacrima agrees with Jamie
[2012/07/24 16:13]  Lulu Lacrima: sensus, susnsus
[2012/07/24 16:13]  SenusretIII: maybachq teleported me here
[2012/07/24 16:13]  Lulu Lacrima: yah, welcome
[2012/07/24 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: YOu know, sis, the number two wish is ‘I wish I spent more time with friends and family’?
[2012/07/24 16:13]  Jamie Marlin: Hi senus
[2012/07/24 16:13]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, it doesn’t side-step the issue at all, Gwyn. It’s back to what will happen to people who believe in predestination.
[2012/07/24 16:13]  Lulu Lacrima: Gwn, it’s not HOW they set goals, but WHY
[2012/07/24 16:13]  Zobeid Zuma: Nobody likes wasting their precious life on drudge work, but a lot of it has to get done.
[2012/07/24 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the person at their deathbed regretting their work will say: “oops, I was socially conditioned for the WRONG goals and now I’m NOT a successful person — I wish I could go back and change my goals?”
[2012/07/24 16:13]  SenusretIII: maybach told me yall were talking about afterlife or something?
[2012/07/24 16:13]  David Endrizzi: my most persistent goal was to be an attentive loving father to two children from birth to productive adulthood
[2012/07/24 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: No we are discussing…
[2012/07/24 16:13]  Jamie Marlin: 🙂 I am not surprised, sis…. there is never enough time for friends and family
[2012/07/24 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: the question here is about “has to”
[2012/07/24 16:13]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, I think you showed the absurdity of the predestinationist view
[2012/07/24 16:14]  David Endrizzi: i’ve achieved that
[2012/07/24 16:14]  Lulu Lacrima: David, do you feel that you are achieving that goal?
[2012/07/24 16:14]  David Endrizzi: now what?
[2012/07/24 16:14]  Lulu Lacrima: good to hear
[2012/07/24 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: David: so you will have no regrets 🙂
[2012/07/24 16:14]  Maybach Q (maybachq): extropia
[2012/07/24 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: whew. Thanks, Rhi 🙂
[2012/07/24 16:14]  Lulu Lacrima: David, that’s the existential question
[2012/07/24 16:14]  Extropia DaSilva: …are discussing..
[2012/07/24 16:14]  Extropia DaSilva: The number one regret voiced on the deathbed is ‘I wish I had not worked so hard’. What should we learn from this?
[2012/07/24 16:14]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): No problem, Gwyn. Anytime
[2012/07/24 16:14]  David Endrizzi: little ones, gwen
[2012/07/24 16:14]  SenusretIII: im guessing its brain chemicals making them at peace
[2012/07/24 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Work on the little ones, David 🙂
[2012/07/24 16:14]  Zobeid Zuma: Well, in the type of society we have now, a lot of work has to be done to keep things going. Hunter-gatherers probably didn’t do much drudge work, as such. But I don’t want to go back to the stone age, personally.
[2012/07/24 16:14]  Lulu Lacrima: maybe there is something more to your OWN selfhood that now can command your attention
[2012/07/24 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: I wonder how many people go to their deaths with no regrets at all?
[2012/07/24 16:15]  Maybach Q (maybachq): i will have regrets
[2012/07/24 16:15]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Rhiannon of the Birds cringes at the thought of going back to the stone-age; would be a grandmother and on a pension soon (if they had pensions in the Stone Age).
[2012/07/24 16:15]  Maybach Q (maybachq): but i do not fear death
[2012/07/24 16:15]  Lulu Lacrima: interesting question
[2012/07/24 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: An incredibly small number, Extie.
[2012/07/24 16:15]  Lulu Lacrima: I fear old age
[2012/07/24 16:15]  David Endrizzi: if that’s really the most common regret, my reaction is why were their values so screwed up?
[2012/07/24 16:15]  SenusretIII: why is my avay sitting like this lmao
[2012/07/24 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: death is nothing to me.
[2012/07/24 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: David: because they learned all their lives to set those goals as important
[2012/07/24 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Social conditioning.
[2012/07/24 16:16]  Maybach Q (maybachq): extropia do you believe in an afterlife?
[2012/07/24 16:16]  Maybach Q (maybachq): if you dont mind me asking
[2012/07/24 16:16]  Lulu Lacrima: exi is a transhumanist
[2012/07/24 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that’s for Zo, too: we’re just *conditioned* to believe that we ‘need’ to have all that drudge work to make our society work.
[2012/07/24 16:16]  Extropia DaSilva: Not at all.
[2012/07/24 16:16]  David Endrizzi: HA! i’ve always seen myself as a sort of social outcast
[2012/07/24 16:16]  SenusretIII: im a transhumanist too i think
[2012/07/24 16:17]  SenusretIII: if that means one who will who will evolve
[2012/07/24 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: In some cases, some jobs only exist because otherwise a lot of people would have no role to play in society… so we try to build inclusive societies
[2012/07/24 16:17]  Lulu Lacrima: extropia, did you just claim that you are not a transhumanist?
[2012/07/24 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sometimes this means that half the population is doing stupid jobs just to survive
[2012/07/24 16:17]  David Endrizzi: or, at least one who preferred the fringe of the social setting i was part of
[2012/07/24 16:17]  Lulu Lacrima: did I misunderstand something?
[2012/07/24 16:17]  SenusretIII: she was saying to no to whether she believeined in
[2012/07/24 16:17]  SenusretIII: afterlife
[2012/07/24 16:18]  Lulu Lacrima: kk
[2012/07/24 16:18]  SenusretIII: believed* lmao
[2012/07/24 16:18]  David Endrizzi: my whole body aches
[2012/07/24 16:18]  Zobeid Zuma: Erg. That always happens when I’m zooming my camera around an avatar. And I just can’t help myself. I’m an inveterate zoomer.
[2012/07/24 16:18]  Extropia DaSilva: I am not sure. I mean, there are some theoretical physical arguments to do with infinite alternate personal histories played out in the multiverse as well as digital person arguments for immortality. But no I do not believe any conventional supernatural heaven exists.
[2012/07/24 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Zo
[2012/07/24 16:18]  David Endrizzi: like i was thrown against a wall, or something
[2012/07/24 16:18]  Lulu Lacrima: Gwn, yes, I would say even more than half the pop is doing stuff unnecessary to the continued existence of humanity
[2012/07/24 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, I would say that too.
[2012/07/24 16:18]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): heh, was switching channels on my truck radio trying to find Alice Cooper and I got a Christian stations, “Don’t make the momentary pleasures of this present life take you away from eternity.”
[2012/07/24 16:19]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Rhiannon of the Birds waits for the group to make that comment relevant
[2012/07/24 16:19]  Lulu Lacrima: LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOl
[2012/07/24 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The “half” number is actually quite right on some places I’ve seen
[2012/07/24 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Rhi
[2012/07/24 16:19]  David Endrizzi: my truck’s bigger than your rhi!!
[2012/07/24 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alice Cooper and Christian stations! mmmh nice combination!
[2012/07/24 16:19]  David Endrizzi: lol
[2012/07/24 16:19]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): David, I’m not a guy; I *don’t* care. lol
[2012/07/24 16:19]  Maybach Q (maybachq): yeah david
[2012/07/24 16:19]  Jamie Marlin: Well – ‘the continued existence of humanity’ is a rather high bar, don’t you think?
[2012/07/24 16:19]  Maybach Q (maybachq): jk lol
[2012/07/24 16:20]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I’m sure that *your* truck is as big as it needs to be
[2012/07/24 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie: yes 🙂
[2012/07/24 16:20]  Jamie Marlin: Most arists would fail that test… but art is still worthwhile
[2012/07/24 16:20]  David Endrizzi: filthy minds 😀
[2012/07/24 16:20]  SenusretIII: rhiannon your avatar is naked
[2012/07/24 16:20]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, don’t have the fancy-smacny satellite radio with Howard Stern
[2012/07/24 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Senus
[2012/07/24 16:20]  David Endrizzi: i was talking about this prostar that they let me drive
[2012/07/24 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: well spotted!
[2012/07/24 16:20]  Maybach Q (maybachq): isnt blue naked too
[2012/07/24 16:20]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I thought you were staring at me, Senus
[2012/07/24 16:20]  Lulu Lacrima: hey now!
[2012/07/24 16:20]  Maybach Q (maybachq): loll
[2012/07/24 16:20]  SenusretIII: oh i wasnt complainin now
[2012/07/24 16:20]  David Endrizzi: but it’s not even mine, really
[2012/07/24 16:20]  SenusretIII: xD
[2012/07/24 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not naked, *nude*
[2012/07/24 16:21]  Blue Ronsein: You should be naked too, Senus
[2012/07/24 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is a difference!
[2012/07/24 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: Looks like your glasses are working just fine, Sensur;)
[2012/07/24 16:21]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, was just going to say that.
[2012/07/24 16:21]  Jamie Marlin: I am naked too… I just have clothes on over the top
[2012/07/24 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
[2012/07/24 16:21]  SenusretIII: yall aint redy for this jelly
[2012/07/24 16:21]  SenusretIII: or else i would
[2012/07/24 16:21]  SenusretIII: 😉
[2012/07/24 16:21]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Rhiannon of the Birds wipes the spittle off of Senus’ mouth
[2012/07/24 16:21]  David Endrizzi: and vagina’s not an obscene word
[2012/07/24 16:21]  Maybach Q (maybachq): lollll
[2012/07/24 16:21]  Lulu Lacrima: I am sure that post-discussional antics are not unheard of
[2012/07/24 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: Only for another ten minutes or so, Jamie…;)
[2012/07/24 16:21]  Jamie Marlin: :))
[2012/07/24 16:22]  Lulu Lacrima: Extropia, rap for orer!
[2012/07/24 16:22]  Lulu Lacrima: *order!
[2012/07/24 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lulu: technically, AfterThinkers usually happens AFTER the session is formally over 🙂
[2012/07/24 16:22]  Maybach Q (maybachq): sensus can rap too
[2012/07/24 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But, we can make exceptions… we have free will 😉
[2012/07/24 16:22]  Lulu Lacrima: ooooh? do weeeeee?
[2012/07/24 16:22]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Sensus, don’t think I don’t notice you staring at my ass
[2012/07/24 16:22]  SenusretIII: Senus IS rap
[2012/07/24 16:22]  Lulu Lacrima: 😉
[2012/07/24 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: In fact have you all finished? Can I end early and go off with Jamie now?
[2012/07/24 16:22]  Jamie Marlin: You were supposed to say that, Gwyn
[2012/07/24 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaha
[2012/07/24 16:22]  SenusretIII: i know , you know
[2012/07/24 16:22]  Blue Ronsein: Will somebody predestine Senus?
[2012/07/24 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nice try, Jamie 😉
[2012/07/24 16:22]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, sure looks that way, but it ain’t over until it’s over
[2012/07/24 16:22]  Lulu Lacrima: lol, go off and have fun I think we’re Dun
[2012/07/24 16:23]  SenusretIII: wats predestine?
[2012/07/24 16:23]  SenusretIII: lmao
[2012/07/24 16:23]  Lulu Lacrima: lol, perhaps
[2012/07/24 16:23]  Lulu Lacrima: ciao mes amis
[2012/07/24 16:23]  Jamie Marlin: *looks for her singing fat lady avatar*
[2012/07/24 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the other hand, Jamie, you could say that the whole conditioning I’ve been carrying in my mind has ‘made me say that’….
[2012/07/24 16:23]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Go with blue~she’ll *tell you* all about it
[2012/07/24 16:23]  sabreman Carter: you life
[2012/07/24 16:23]  Blue Ronsein: Predestine is having a sense of what you’re about to do, Senus
[2012/07/24 16:23]  Lulu Lacrima: until next time, but for now I shall *poof*
[2012/07/24 16:23]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): ‘Before the first oceans rolled, I was conditioned to say these thigns to you.”
[2012/07/24 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bye, Lulu!
[2012/07/24 16:23]  SenusretIII: oh ok go ahead and predestine me
[2012/07/24 16:23]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Sounds profound, doesn’t it?
[2012/07/24 16:23]  SenusretIII: i’ll tell you if u were right
[2012/07/24 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It does 🙂
[2012/07/24 16:24]  Extropia DaSilva: OK it is a little early but I am going to call a close now.
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