THINKERS MAY 29 2012: OUTLIVING LOVE

Extropia DaSilva: Today the topic for discussion is…
[2012/05/29 15:32]  Extropia DaSilva: With breakup and divorce a major part of modern life, are we outliving our inborn capacity to love?
[2012/05/29 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: There is an interesting correlation…
[2012/05/29 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: Between the natural lifespan of a human being…
[2012/05/29 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: and the average lifespan of a relationship..
[2012/05/29 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: In nature, we live to around the age of 30..
[2012/05/29 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: So, in nature you would expect to loose one half of a couple within 15 years…
[2012/05/29 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: And…
[2012/05/29 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: In modern times it is around 15 years that people separate.
[2012/05/29 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: So some argue that we are simply outliving our inbuilt capacity to pair bond.
[2012/05/29 15:35]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi Art 🙂
[2012/05/29 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh, hello Art/
[2012/05/29 15:36]  Zobeid Zuma: Or maybe it’s only marriage, as such, that is becoming obsolete.
[2012/05/29 15:36]  ArtCrash Exonar: hiya!
[2012/05/29 15:36]  ArtCrash Exonar: rezzing
[2012/05/29 15:36]  Veronica Lodge (veronica.audurburgh): Or are we interested in selfish notions
[2012/05/29 15:36]  Extropia DaSilva: Are the two not synonymous?
[2012/05/29 15:37]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Hi Art! Hi Violet! Hi Zobeid! Hi Veronica! Hi Ari! Hi Extropia! My page is rezzed now! Nice to meet you!!
[2012/05/29 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: Hello Lee:) That took a while!
[2012/05/29 15:37]  ArtCrash Exonar: nice to meet you as well
[2012/05/29 15:38]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Yes, it takes some time…since I don’t have a gaming computer…
[2012/05/29 15:38]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hiya Leezah
[2012/05/29 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: To be honest, Lee, it still takes a while to rez if you do have a gaming computer.
[2012/05/29 15:38]  Veronica Lodge (veronica.audurburgh): If marriage is obsolete, why all the concern about Gay Marriage?
[2012/05/29 15:38]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Plus, I think my graphics settings are all wrong…people keep telling me different things so I keep changing them..
[2012/05/29 15:39]  Lee (leezahsmiles): But back to the topic….
[2012/05/29 15:39]  Extropia DaSilva: Storm in a teacup perhaps, Veronica?
[2012/05/29 15:39]  ArtCrash Exonar: Conservatives are obsolete, but that doesn’t stop
[2012/05/29 15:39]  ArtCrash Exonar: THEM!
[2012/05/29 15:39]  Lee (leezahsmiles): I don’t think marriage is obsolete…
[2012/05/29 15:39]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Marriage is what you make it…
[2012/05/29 15:39]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Equal opportunity to obsolesence 😛
[2012/05/29 15:39]  Lee (leezahsmiles): People get married for the wrong reasons and with a lack of real preparation and that is why so many marriages fail…
[2012/05/29 15:39]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Has little to do with their capacity to love….
[2012/05/29 15:39]  Extropia DaSilva: You are right, Lee.
[2012/05/29 15:39]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Much more to do with their wrong choices on screenign life partners…
[2012/05/29 15:40]  ArtCrash Exonar: People get married who don’t have anything in common and that always fails.
[2012/05/29 15:40]  Lee (leezahsmiles): And their lack of preparation to go the distance and mesh their lives…
[2012/05/29 15:40]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Breakups and divorce do seem to be an increasingly normal thing in Western societies….I kind of think it’s mostly cultural, though
[2012/05/29 15:40]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Well…there is not much social stigma attached to being divorced anymore….
[2012/05/29 15:40]  Lee (leezahsmiles): There was a time when people stayed married just to avoid the social rejection of being divorced…
[2012/05/29 15:40]  ArtCrash Exonar: Gay marriage isn’t about marriage it is about equal rights.
[2012/05/29 15:41]  Extropia DaSilva: But, at the same time, we live decades longer than people did when marriage was invented, and in the future if longevity works out we shall live centuries. Is it realistic to suppose two people could remain together for centuries?
[2012/05/29 15:41]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I don’t think it’s ideal, but I’d rather have the option to break things off with someone I don’t connect with than live in a culture without that option
[2012/05/29 15:41]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Yes, Art
[2012/05/29 15:41]  Lee (leezahsmiles): People used to think if you got divorced, you failed at the most important thing in life (well other than parenting)
[2012/05/29 15:42]  ArtCrash Exonar: Marriage used to be about property rights, the woman being the property…..
[2012/05/29 15:42]  Lee (leezahsmiles): In some culturse, it still is Art!!
[2012/05/29 15:42]  Lee (leezahsmiles): cultures
[2012/05/29 15:43]  Lee (leezahsmiles): There are still many cultures where women are married to a man after that man pays her family….
[2012/05/29 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: I do not know of any culture where the man’s status of single versus married is made clear, whereas with women it nearly always is.
[2012/05/29 15:44]  Zobeid Zuma: Hi TR!
[2012/05/29 15:44]  Lee (leezahsmiles): I met this guy once in the U.S. who was a foreigner. He told me, “I offer 50 cows!” I was told that was a marriage proposal! LOL
[2012/05/29 15:44]  Veronica Lodge (veronica.audurburgh): Amish
[2012/05/29 15:44]  TR Amat: Hi
[2012/05/29 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: YOu know, Miss/Mrs Madamoisellle/Madam Frauline/Frau….
[2012/05/29 15:44]  ArtCrash Exonar: Another historical reason for marriage is so that genetic lines were preserved by making violation of marriage sexuality punishable by death.
[2012/05/29 15:44]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi TR 🙂
[2012/05/29 15:45]  Extropia DaSilva: Hello TR:)
[2012/05/29 15:45]  Extropia DaSilva: You are worth at least 54 cows, Lee.
[2012/05/29 15:45]  Lee (leezahsmiles): LOL Extropia
[2012/05/29 15:45]  Extropia DaSilva: 🙂
[2012/05/29 15:46]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Fifty did seem a bit low…
[2012/05/29 15:46]  TR Amat: So, if they get good enough to be AI, will you have to marry robots? 🙂
[2012/05/29 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: Uhuh!
[2012/05/29 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: Robots cannot love.
[2012/05/29 15:46]  Veronica Lodge (veronica.audurburgh): what’s love got to do with it?
[2012/05/29 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: But one day they will probably be very good at faking it.
[2012/05/29 15:46]  TR Amat: Sure about that? 🙂
[2012/05/29 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes, I am.
[2012/05/29 15:46]  Lee (leezahsmiles): LOL Veronica Good point
[2012/05/29 15:47]  Lee (leezahsmiles): I think some people think marriage has to be all about being in love….but it doesn’t!
[2012/05/29 15:47]  Veronica Lodge (veronica.audurburgh): What is love?
[2012/05/29 15:47]  TR Amat: Some seem to confuse lust and love…
[2012/05/29 15:47]  Lee (leezahsmiles): I think it has to be about being willing AND fully prepared emotionally to go the distance….
[2012/05/29 15:47]  ArtCrash Exonar: It is easier to face the problems of the world with a partner is the main benefit of marriage I think.
[2012/05/29 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn says hi and has no idea what the topic is… lol
[2012/05/29 15:48]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Plenty of people felt they were deeply in love when they got married…and they can’t sstand each other after the divorce…
[2012/05/29 15:48]  ArtCrash Exonar: Hiya Gwyn!
[2012/05/29 15:48]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Violet nods
[2012/05/29 15:48]  TR Amat: Some marriage seem to be about avoiding lonliness…
[2012/05/29 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: There is some evidence to show that arranged marriages (not to be confused with forced marriages) where there is an initial liking, develop into longer lasting loving relationships compared to thosw where people marry for love at the outset.
[2012/05/29 15:48]  Lee (leezahsmiles): So being deeply in love at the onset is nooooo guarantee of longevity in a marriage…
[2012/05/29 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh, is my Gwyn here?
[2012/05/29 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No! lol
[2012/05/29 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: Liar!
[2012/05/29 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just in spirit but not in essence. Hah.
[2012/05/29 15:49]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Well, arranged marriages have family support so that influences the couple’s desire to make it work….families are deeply invested in it working out…
[2012/05/29 15:49]  Veronica Lodge (veronica.audurburgh): Yes, I can not Imagen losing our house with out having my Mate there.
[2012/05/29 15:49]  TR Amat: Just because you’re not obviously in love any more doesn’t mean you haven’t got used to being with someone. 🙂
[2012/05/29 15:49]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I think most marriage is about that, really, TR. At least in the west, marriage mostly seems to be about companionship.
[2012/05/29 15:49]  ArtCrash Exonar: I question those results Extie, because arranged marriage cultures don’t allow divorce as freely.
[2012/05/29 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes indeed Extie… I’ve heard some recent reports on that too. “Romantic love” hasn’t such a good track record as it is supposed to have 🙂
[2012/05/29 15:49]  Lee (leezahsmiles): True Art… divorce is not an option with arranged marriages…it is considered an insult to both families…
[2012/05/29 15:50]  Lee (leezahsmiles): It is considered a rejection of their desire and their judgment….
[2012/05/29 15:50]  Zobeid Zuma: Gwyn, hii! Fashionably late again, eh? 🙂
[2012/05/29 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gah yes.
[2012/05/29 15:50]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hey Gwyn 🙂
[2012/05/29 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hey 🙂
[2012/05/29 15:50]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Hi Gwyneth!
[2012/05/29 15:50]  ArtCrash Exonar: Gwyn works too hard
[2012/05/29 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: I am talking about cultures where the two families suggest a union but the final decision is down to the couple.
[2012/05/29 15:50]  TR Amat: So, with life/heath rxtension, longevity will lead to breakup, is the ides?
[2012/05/29 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… not this week lol
[2012/05/29 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes, TR.
[2012/05/29 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH, so that’s the topic? Heh.
[2012/05/29 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: Anders Sandberg thinks we will have to artificially extend our capacity to love.
[2012/05/29 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh…topic..
[2012/05/29 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: With breakup and divorce a major part of modern life, are we outliving our inborn capacity to love?
[2012/05/29 15:51]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Extropia, that is rarely the case though….the families make a suggestion and it really is intended as a choice that must be accepted.
[2012/05/29 15:51]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Must be…
[2012/05/29 15:51]  Lee (leezahsmiles): It isn’t a “here’s our suggestion but do what you want” type of thing….
[2012/05/29 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: Is that right?
[2012/05/29 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well the problem is that we confuse passion with love, and passion will fade pretty quickly. The longer we live, the more likely it is that passion will simply disappear.
[2012/05/29 15:52]  ArtCrash Exonar: Is there evidence of the proposition that the longer people are together they LESS likely to divorce? It seems reasonable to me.
[2012/05/29 15:52]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Not at all Art…
[2012/05/29 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It depends throroughly on the attitude one has when engaging into marriage.
[2012/05/29 15:52]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Depends on their reasons for staying married…
[2012/05/29 15:52]  Lee (leezahsmiles): There are people who were married for a long time and got divorced after 20 or 30 years together….
[2012/05/29 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What one can argue is that society (modern society that is) tends to create a self-centred image of what marriage is supposed to be.
[2012/05/29 15:53]  Extropia DaSilva: how so?
[2012/05/29 15:53]  ArtCrash Exonar: Lots of different reasons for getting married. A friend of mine got married last month to get health insurance continuation.
[2012/05/29 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Stay married as long as it is still pleasant to you”
[2012/05/29 15:53]  Lee (leezahsmiles): I agree Gwen….
[2012/05/29 15:53]  TR Amat: Basic question then, why are people getting married, and, why are people staying married?
[2012/05/29 15:53]  Lee (leezahsmiles): It’s often all about “I want to be loved…I want a soul mate… I, I, I……”
[2012/05/29 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s about “I” and “feeling”.
[2012/05/29 15:54]  Lee (leezahsmiles): TR, people marry for a list of different reasons….
[2012/05/29 15:54]  ArtCrash Exonar: Don’t forget economics as a major factor in marriage.
[2012/05/29 15:54]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Depends on the couple….
[2012/05/29 15:54]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Depends on the individual….
[2012/05/29 15:54]  Lee (leezahsmiles): They stay married for a list of reasons….
[2012/05/29 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that is actually childish; it’s like telling your kid, “do what you please” and expect him or her to happily go to school every day and do their homework out of pleasure 😉
[2012/05/29 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: yes, I agree
[2012/05/29 15:54]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Their motivations….their cultural backgrounds…. so many things….
[2012/05/29 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: well what is the ideal reason, if any, for getting married?
[2012/05/29 15:54]  TR Amat: Sorry, got to go. Not up to be here, this midnight.
[2012/05/29 15:54]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Extropia, there isn’t an “ideal reason” that all people embrace….. people are individuals….
[2012/05/29 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ideal reason? Well that’s simple. The strong wish to make the other person happy, *no matter what*.
[2012/05/29 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: Goodnight, TR:)
[2012/05/29 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (bye TR!)
[2012/05/29 15:55]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Nite TR!! Nice to meet you!!!
[2012/05/29 15:55]  TR Amat: Havbe fun, and don’t marry/divorce in too much of a hrry. 🙂
[2012/05/29 15:55]  Lee (leezahsmiles): What is “ideal” for me may not be “ideal” for you….
[2012/05/29 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[2012/05/29 15:55]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think the ideal reason to get married is to get a partner to share your life with. Both fun things and problems. Fun is better with a partner and so is trouble…..
[2012/05/29 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is an universal wish to be happy.
[2012/05/29 15:55]  Lee (leezahsmiles): So I can’t say that there is an “ideal reason” for all to validate….
[2012/05/29 15:55]  Extropia DaSilva: But Gwyn, you should not diregard your own relationship needs. It is important to take them into consideration as well.
[2012/05/29 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, there is anideal reason to entyer marriage and make the other person happy.
[2012/05/29 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only “need” I have is to make others happy 😉
[2012/05/29 15:56]  Lee (leezahsmiles): wwowwwww Gwen
[2012/05/29 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why not start with my beloved one? 😉
[2012/05/29 15:56]  ArtCrash Exonar: Gwyn lives to make us all happy! Yay!
[2012/05/29 15:56]  Zobeid Zuma: I thought the “ideal” reason was to raise kids and propagate the species. I mean, let’s face it… It’s got to be done.
[2012/05/29 15:56]  Extropia DaSilva: Lucky Moon!
[2012/05/29 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I *try* to! It doesn’t mean that I *can*.
[2012/05/29 15:56]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Zobeid, what about all the couples who mary and agree not to have kids??
[2012/05/29 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: heh. That’s the Darwinistic reason for marriage, yes 😉
[2012/05/29 15:56]  Lee (leezahsmiles): *marry
[2012/05/29 15:57]  Extropia DaSilva: They must surely be a minority, Lee.
[2012/05/29 15:57]  Zobeid Zuma: Then that’s not ideal, is it? :/
[2012/05/29 15:57]  Lee (leezahsmiles): And oh my gosh….there are sooo many people these days having babies out of wedlock….ON PURPOSE!
[2012/05/29 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, not such a minority in the West really
[2012/05/29 15:57]  Lee (leezahsmiles): True Gwen…
[2012/05/29 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, kids are expensive!
[2012/05/29 15:57]  Lee (leezahsmiles): It is not a minority in the West….not at all…
[2012/05/29 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: In the good old days you used themn as slave labour in the home… 😉
[2012/05/29 15:57]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Childless married couples are not THAT uncommon…
[2012/05/29 15:57]  ArtCrash Exonar: I can’t believe it! I forgot to have kids!!!
[2012/05/29 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: These days, parents are slaves.
[2012/05/29 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Art!
[2012/05/29 15:58]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Good old days, Gwyn?… 😛
[2012/05/29 15:58]  Lee (leezahsmiles): LOL Art
[2012/05/29 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[2012/05/29 15:58]  Lee (leezahsmiles): It is hilarious when people want a woman to explain herself if she says she has no intention of having children in life….
[2012/05/29 15:58]  Extropia DaSilva: I can believe that plenty have kids out of wedlock,but I cannot believe that the people IN wedlock who decide never to have kids outnumber those that DO decide to have kids…or at least attempt to.
[2012/05/29 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was being sarcastic, Violet 🙂 Remember, 4 billion human beings still think that way about their kids today.
[2012/05/29 15:58]  Lee (leezahsmiles): As if it is requirement….
[2012/05/29 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lee: right 😛 You bet!
[2012/05/29 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2012/05/29 15:58]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Or if it is something that others expects she HAS to desire…. (((chuckles)))
[2012/05/29 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: I have no access to statistics really, but I would believe you’re right…
[2012/05/29 15:59]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Complicated opinions on procreation tend to get you looked at funny, yes :p
[2012/05/29 15:59]  Lee (leezahsmiles): I dno’t think that childless married couples outnumber married couples with children….but I don’t think they are that rare eitehr….
[2012/05/29 15:59]  Lee (leezahsmiles): *either
[2012/05/29 15:59]  Lee (leezahsmiles): *don’t
[2012/05/29 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lee, you’ve also brought up another point: these days, at least in my country, people get married due to social pressure mostly. It’s the thing to have after your own wardrobe or your car, your playstation, and a plasma TV…
[2012/05/29 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. a status symbol
[2012/05/29 16:00]  Extropia DaSilva: Would the number be likely to increase as women gain more and more professional positions like CEO and such?
[2012/05/29 16:00]  Lee (leezahsmiles): LOL Gwen
[2012/05/29 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: “look I got married! And I’ve got KIDS to show!”
[2012/05/29 16:00]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): That thought’s been rattling around in the back of my head, Gwyn…
[2012/05/29 16:00]  Lee (leezahsmiles): In the U.S., women aren’t pressures socially to marry anymore…
[2012/05/29 16:00]  Lee (leezahsmiles): In fact, New York Times reported 51% of women in the U.S. are unmarried….
[2012/05/29 16:00]  ArtCrash Exonar: The economics of marriage favor marriage in a bad economy. One apartment, one car, etc.
[2012/05/29 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Goodie, Lee 🙂 🙂 I like that!
[2012/05/29 16:01]  Lee (leezahsmiles): that is a verrrry high stat in some other countries!
[2012/05/29 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: In my country there is also an economic reason for marriage, either formally or unofficially — two person can survive better than one alone, specially because of the high unemployment…
[2012/05/29 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, sory Art
[2012/05/29 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, that’s right
[2012/05/29 16:01]  ArtCrash Exonar: So if 50 percent of women aren’t married, Doesn’t that mean that the same is true of men?
[2012/05/29 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (you typed faster!)
[2012/05/29 16:02]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Not necessarily Art….
[2012/05/29 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, there are slightly more women than men… hehe
[2012/05/29 16:02]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think yes necessarily
[2012/05/29 16:02]  Extropia DaSilva: But is that problem not also solved by two people co-habiting, like you and Moon do?
[2012/05/29 16:02]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2012/05/29 16:02]  Lee (leezahsmiles): There aren’t equal numbers of men and women in the U.S. ….
[2012/05/29 16:02]  ArtCrash Exonar: but the differences are a few percent
[2012/05/29 16:02]  Extropia DaSilva: …she is your roomie, right?
[2012/05/29 16:02]  Lee (leezahsmiles): So if there aren’t equal numbers of both exes then mathematically, why would the % be the same??
[2012/05/29 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: sure. I don’t see any difference between “living together” and “being married” — except for legal reasons. But the rest is the same, it’s about commitment, purpose…
[2012/05/29 16:03]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Oh big difference in living together and being married, Gwen….HUGE!!
[2012/05/29 16:03]  ArtCrash Exonar: no difference
[2012/05/29 16:03]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Living together is not a legal commitment….
[2012/05/29 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh. Perhaps. I just don’t have that experience, Lee 🙂
[2012/05/29 16:03]  Lee (leezahsmiles): It isn’t a joint statement of being part of a legal institution of marriage….
[2012/05/29 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, it’s a commitmenyt towards each other, which is far more important 🙂
[2012/05/29 16:04]  Extropia DaSilva: And you are happier if you are married, compared to simply living together.
[2012/05/29 16:04]  ArtCrash Exonar: We lived together for 5 years before marriage, the only difference was filing jointly on the tax return.
[2012/05/29 16:04]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2012/05/29 16:04]  Lee (leezahsmiles): It is just a co-tenancy arrangement with emotions involved….but NO real legal stance about permanency….
[2012/05/29 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What matters most, the vows exchanged, or what the law says? 😉 For a pleasant life together, trust me, it’s the vows that matter….
[2012/05/29 16:04]  Extropia DaSilva: who, you and Scarp?
[2012/05/29 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (or rather: how those vows are belittled….)
[2012/05/29 16:04]  ArtCrash Exonar: he hee
[2012/05/29 16:04]  Extropia DaSilva: You do seem rather made for one another:)
[2012/05/29 16:05]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Good point, Gwen….but living together with NO real legal commitment to be one is just not the same….
[2012/05/29 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: I’ve heard that argument before, but I fail to understand it.
[2012/05/29 16:05]  ArtCrash Exonar: made is the word too!
[2012/05/29 16:05]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2012/05/29 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lee: I agree. What matters is the commitment.
[2012/05/29 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why should a piece of paper become a guarantee of a greater commitment?
[2012/05/29 16:05]  Extropia DaSilva: It is not an argument, so much as a fact born of statistics.
[2012/05/29 16:05]  Lee (leezahsmiles): No, I am saying that teh verbal commitment is NOT enough…there has to be a legal commitment of permanency as well….
[2012/05/29 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then again, in my cultural environment, words and bits of paper matter nothing at all… 😛
[2012/05/29 16:06]  Lee (leezahsmiles): much more…
[2012/05/29 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why “has to be”?
[2012/05/29 16:06]  Lee (leezahsmiles): It is more than a piece of paper though…
[2012/05/29 16:06]  Lee (leezahsmiles): It is all that comes with accepting that piece of paper….
[2012/05/29 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[2012/05/29 16:06]  ArtCrash Exonar: Economic responsibility?
[2012/05/29 16:06]  Lee (leezahsmiles): It is the mindset behind making a legal permanent agreement….
[2012/05/29 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me just say that a billion people have lived for 2600 years without “Bits of paper” to tell they’re married, but they have respected their vows of living together…. or they wouldn’t have survived until this very day 🙂
[2012/05/29 16:07]  Lee (leezahsmiles): It is about making a statemetn of being willing to be legally accountable to certain things to that person for live….
[2012/05/29 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: I do believe accepting a marriage proposal is a request that one should consider with more care than, say, being asked out on a date.
[2012/05/29 16:07]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Gwen, yeah but it’s not just about a piece of paper….
[2012/05/29 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is economic responisibility without the bits of paper, too!
[2012/05/29 16:07]  Lee (leezahsmiles): *statement
[2012/05/29 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So what is it about, then? 🙂
[2012/05/29 16:07]  Lee (leezahsmiles): *life
[2012/05/29 16:08]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Hi Elizabeth!
[2012/05/29 16:08]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Just saw you there….
[2012/05/29 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean hmm
[2012/05/29 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s take two examples.
[2012/05/29 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Case A.
[2012/05/29 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: so when people say ‘marriage..pfff..bit of paper, nothing more’ I do not buy that argument.
[2012/05/29 16:08]  Lee (leezahsmiles): I don’t eitehr
[2012/05/29 16:08]  Lee (leezahsmiles): either
[2012/05/29 16:08]  Lee (leezahsmiles): It is not about just a piece of paper…..
[2012/05/29 16:08]  Elizabeth Spieler: hi sorry to be late
[2012/05/29 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: NP:)
[2012/05/29 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: In this case, people live in the Western world, and have no intention to keep to what they have signed on the bit of paper, since they know they can get a divorce easily.
[2012/05/29 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: Nice to have you here.
[2012/05/29 16:08]  Lee (leezahsmiles): That piece of paper represents a willingness to be accountable LEGALLY in court to a certain set of expectations….
[2012/05/29 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Case B.
[2012/05/29 16:09]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I have to head out….g’night all 🙂
[2012/05/29 16:09]  Lee (leezahsmiles): It also represents a formal declaration of permanency….
[2012/05/29 16:09]  Lee (leezahsmiles): The government honors that too…
[2012/05/29 16:09]  Extropia DaSilva: It also represents an instutution with centuries of cultural significance behind it.
[2012/05/29 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: In this case, the couple exchange their vows between each other. They don’t need bits of paper to remind them of what their vows are.
[2012/05/29 16:09]  Extropia DaSilva: *institution.
[2012/05/29 16:09]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Can “we are living together and committed” statements hold up in court if you want to claim social security for a deceased partner in the U.S.???? Heck nooooooo
[2012/05/29 16:10]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Because we are in a country that says marriage means more than living together.
[2012/05/29 16:10]  Extropia DaSilva: maybe it should, though?
[2012/05/29 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why should materialistic claims make any importance on marriage? (We get back to Art’s argument, it’s for econolmic reasons)
[2012/05/29 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the legal system says so, yes.
[2012/05/29 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But couples don’t 🙂
[2012/05/29 16:10]  Elizabeth Spieler: without marriage contracts the children can be thrown away – which used to be orphanages
[2012/05/29 16:10]  Extropia DaSilva: so when money is obsolete will marriage also be obsolete?
[2012/05/29 16:11]  Lee (leezahsmiles): In the U.S., being married is not viewed teh same as living together as a couple without any legal declaration of permanency…it just sisn’t…
[2012/05/29 16:11]  Lee (leezahsmiles): *isn’t
[2012/05/29 16:11]  Elizabeth Spieler: my gramps was thrown away being the product of an unwed tryst – which I think was rape but oh well
[2012/05/29 16:11]  Lee (leezahsmiles): *the
[2012/05/29 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: yes, if people only worry about what they have 🙂
[2012/05/29 16:11]  Lee (leezahsmiles): 8the
[2012/05/29 16:11]  Elizabeth Spieler: so if we are pro allowing children to grow up as orphans we can do away with the obligation of marriage – and obligation to raising the offspring
[2012/05/29 16:12]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Elizabeth, these days, being a baby out of wedlock is not such a huge deal…not in the U.S…..
[2012/05/29 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh. Actually, I’m just playing the devil’s advocate, because I *do* know that marriage is mostly a civil contract. Just like, say, paying the power company or for internet access
[2012/05/29 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It has… Terms of Service 🙂
[2012/05/29 16:12]  Extropia DaSilva: BTW this topic is not about marriage per se, but the longevity of romantic love.
[2012/05/29 16:12]  Elizabeth Spieler: right Lee that is my point if women have no issue abandoning the offspring – and letting them fend for themselves – but psychology will strongly object
[2012/05/29 16:12]  ArtCrash Exonar: Let’s take the case of my friend who has had to have a series of operations on her leg. Since she was divorced a few years ago, her health insurance under COBRA expired. She was forced to marry in order to not be a cripple for life.e
[2012/05/29 16:12]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Oh okay Extropia….back to the topic…. ***smiles***
[2012/05/29 16:13]  Lee (leezahsmiles): The longevity of romantic love……
[2012/05/29 16:13]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Hmmmmmm
[2012/05/29 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, what I was talking about was actually matrimony, which is the essence of ‘marriage’. The rest are legal frameworks to allow a couple to have rights and duties towards each other and the State.
[2012/05/29 16:13]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Well, we all have a different capacity to love….
[2012/05/29 16:13]  Lee (leezahsmiles): that is for sure….
[2012/05/29 16:13]  ArtCrash Exonar: So economics plays a role in marriage in many ways.
[2012/05/29 16:13]  Lee (leezahsmiles): We all have a different type of preparation to love….based on gender conditioning and social norms….
[2012/05/29 16:13]  Elizabeth Spieler: romantic love is a chemical in the brain called oxytocin
[2012/05/29 16:13]  Lee (leezahsmiles): And other factors as well…
[2012/05/29 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: In legal civil marriage, yes, for sure, Art
[2012/05/29 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: nice one, Elizabeth 😉
[2012/05/29 16:14]  Elizabeth Spieler: you either know how to activate it or you don’t . . smiles
[2012/05/29 16:14]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Every person’s capacity to love is different….we know that…but do we know how to measure another person’s capacity to love????
[2012/05/29 16:14]  Extropia DaSilva: I thought it was vasopressin?
[2012/05/29 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Acts speak more than words, Lee 🙂
[2012/05/29 16:14]  ArtCrash Exonar: happio depressin?
[2012/05/29 16:14]  Extropia DaSilva: hah!
[2012/05/29 16:14]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Do we even know how to measure our OWN capacity to love???
[2012/05/29 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can ‘measure’ it through our acts, our conduct, our goals
[2012/05/29 16:14]  Elizabeth Spieler: I believe what contributes to divorce is just human nature ignorance towards the other gender
[2012/05/29 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: well first you need to determine what your attachment style is.
[2012/05/29 16:15]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Actions can be countfeit, Art…..
[2012/05/29 16:15]  Lee (leezahsmiles): *counterfeit
[2012/05/29 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, yes, if the partner is very stupid lol
[2012/05/29 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: or just projects what they want to see on those acts
[2012/05/29 16:15]  Elizabeth Spieler: Pamala Clift speaks in her book about men falling harder in love in SL than women, she believes it is due to the activation of oxytocin in his brain to the visual beauty of the avatar
[2012/05/29 16:15]  Lee (leezahsmiles): What I mean by that Art, is that people can go through teh motions and do whatever is expected and accepted for years….and they aren’t committed….it isn’t authentic…
[2012/05/29 16:15]  Elizabeth Spieler: so I call that false love
[2012/05/29 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees
[2012/05/29 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: ..what do you mean, Elizabeth?
[2012/05/29 16:16]  Elizabeth Spieler: when oxytocin is activated in our brain we use the word LOVE
[2012/05/29 16:16]  Elizabeth Spieler: oxytocin = love
[2012/05/29 16:16]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Elizabeth, I have encuontered guys in SL wh think all women in SL are looking for a relationship…. ***chuckles***
[2012/05/29 16:16]  Extropia DaSilva: ..is that not an oversimplification?
[2012/05/29 16:16]  Lee (leezahsmiles): *encountered
[2012/05/29 16:16]  Elizabeth Spieler: it’s a hormone that also Helenfisher.com speaks of
[2012/05/29 16:16]  Extropia DaSilva: I am not. ‘Cause I found one:)
[2012/05/29 16:16]  Lee (leezahsmiles): LOL Extropia
[2012/05/29 16:16]  ArtCrash Exonar: What IS authentic is either their need to be married or their inability to end it.
[2012/05/29 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Elizabeth: that’s true (about mutual ignorance) but I still think that *nowadays* the main issue is simply one: egoism. “I want to feel good about it”. So long as *I* feel good, I stay married. When the feeling of goodness goes away, bye bye partner.
[2012/05/29 16:16]  Elizabeth Spieler: antidepressants actually remove this from our brain and we lose touch of love towards anyone! her lecture is shocking
[2012/05/29 16:17]  Extropia DaSilva: Interesting, Gwyn.
[2012/05/29 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm. I think that ‘love’ is merely passion
[2012/05/29 16:17]  Lee (leezahsmiles): I haven’t read any of Pamala’s book….
[2012/05/29 16:17]  Extropia DaSilva: It would rather fit the ‘me’ generation.
[2012/05/29 16:17]  ArtCrash Exonar: Gwyn that is why narcissists can’t stay married.
[2012/05/29 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: right, Art!
[2012/05/29 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: exactly!
[2012/05/29 16:17]  Lee (leezahsmiles): She was discussing it at a sim a month or so ago….
[2012/05/29 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and this society encourages narcissism
[2012/05/29 16:18]  Elizabeth Spieler: oh yes Gwyn ok I have read countless articles where we have created a throw away society – honor objects and dishonor beings – rise in animal cruelty is evidence of that
[2012/05/29 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lee: I have no doubt that things like anti-depressants reduce the libido, for instance — I know of many many cases
[2012/05/29 16:18]  Extropia DaSilva: As a narcisissist transhuman I am going to upload, duplicate myself and marry Extie2.
[2012/05/29 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh Extie 😀
[2012/05/29 16:18]  Lee (leezahsmiles): But does libido impact a person’s ability to maintain a lasting emotional commitment???
[2012/05/29 16:18]  Elizabeth Spieler: if your the only man and only woman in a 100 mile radius – I doubt you will cheat laughs
[2012/05/29 16:18]  Elizabeth Spieler: you will find a way to work it out
[2012/05/29 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lee: depends on what that “emotional commitment” is. If it’s based on passion, yes, it will impact. Hugely!
[2012/05/29 16:19]  ArtCrash Exonar: My US State has the highest use of antidepressents in the country! Many correlate it with Mormon women who feel they don’t have the option to divorce….. heh
[2012/05/29 16:19]  Elizabeth Spieler: lack of sex towards the male or female has always been grounds for divorce
[2012/05/29 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If it’s a commitment simply to make the other person happy, then no, libido/passion has nothing to do about it.
[2012/05/29 16:19]  Elizabeth Spieler: a woman sued her ex for not giving her sex for 10 years and she won her case in Italy
[2012/05/29 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Elizabeth: aye, such discrimination… 😛
[2012/05/29 16:19]  Lee (leezahsmiles): But Gwen, is passion tied to sexual energy exclusively??? Or mainly? I think not….
[2012/05/29 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well passion is in the brain 😉
[2012/05/29 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know some guys will disagree.. lol
[2012/05/29 16:20]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think I read somewhere there is a direct correlation with number of children and use of antidepressants……
[2012/05/29 16:20]  Lee (leezahsmiles): LOL Elizabeth Seriously? That would not happen in the U.S…. [[chuckles]]
[2012/05/29 16:20]  James (dcosta): oh, hi Liz btw
[2012/05/29 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Less kids, more antidepressants??
[2012/05/29 16:20]  Elizabeth Spieler: many old laws still contain the phrase “alienation of affection”
[2012/05/29 16:20]  Elizabeth Spieler: we were all born to LOVE !
[2012/05/29 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: some say it would be best to allow extramarrital sex if that would save the marriage. Like, say if I had an accident and could not sexually satisfy Seren, she could go have no-strings sex. Might be for the best if that keeps us together.
[2012/05/29 16:20]  ArtCrash Exonar: more kids more drugs needed….
[2012/05/29 16:20]  Lee (leezahsmiles): A man refusing to have sex with his wife for ten years is either gay….or in an extramarital relationship….
[2012/05/29 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think so too, Elizabeth 🙂 The problkem is that most of us don’t know how to do that :;)
[2012/05/29 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: ah, I hardly find that possible. Look at Islamic societies. Plenty of kids per couple and absolutely no need for drugs 🙂
[2012/05/29 16:21]  ArtCrash Exonar: Or having multiple affairs Lee… heh
[2012/05/29 16:21]  Elizabeth Spieler: as a woman I can’t go have strange sex, that could get me killed : /
[2012/05/29 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: …not that much can happen to me. BUt you know, for illustration’s sake…
[2012/05/29 16:21]  ArtCrash Exonar: oh i see
[2012/05/29 16:21]  Lee (leezahsmiles): I would not be in a marriage where sexual fidelity was not mandatory…..it’s just not in me….
[2012/05/29 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lee: he can just have low libido. It’s a more widespread issue than men like to admit.
[2012/05/29 16:21]  ArtCrash Exonar: OR a porn addict! haha
[2012/05/29 16:21]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Wowwww Gwen…. I will have to ask a guy about that….
[2012/05/29 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: He’ll lie about it 🙂
[2012/05/29 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: *points to Ari* There is one!
[2012/05/29 16:22]  Lee (leezahsmiles): I think many men do not stay in shape so they don’t have the stamina after a certain age….
[2012/05/29 16:22]  Elizabeth Spieler: men compartmentalise – they can truly love two women at once
[2012/05/29 16:22]  Elizabeth Spieler: I would not call it a lie
[2012/05/29 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, if all there is to marriage is how well you can please your partner sexually…
[2012/05/29 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2012/05/29 16:22]  Lee (leezahsmiles): True Elizabeth….i feel most men can love more than one woman at a time….and love them differently…..
[2012/05/29 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No wonder the divorce rate goes up, then 😉
[2012/05/29 16:22]  Elizabeth Spieler: men having mistress’s is an ancient thing, heck the bible men had 300 sex slaves
[2012/05/29 16:23]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think anyone can love multiple people at once. Just in different ways.
[2012/05/29 16:23]  Elizabeth Spieler: he fed them all!
[2012/05/29 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lee: I think they can have *sex* with more than one, lol
[2012/05/29 16:23]  Elizabeth Spieler: it really depends how many STD’s you have
[2012/05/29 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, that was sexist of me. Sorry guys! lol
[2012/05/29 16:23]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Hi James!!
[2012/05/29 16:23]  Elizabeth Spieler: which is the huge downfall to many sexual partners
[2012/05/29 16:23]  James (dcosta): so yall talking about baby makin eh?
[2012/05/29 16:23]  James (dcosta): ㋡
[2012/05/29 16:23]  Extropia DaSilva: but what about the argument that if you love someone, you want to be with that person all the time? You cannot be with two people all the time. Well…maybe under one roof…
[2012/05/29 16:23]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2012/05/29 16:23]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Oh gosh….
[2012/05/29 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pretty much so, James 🙂
[2012/05/29 16:24]  Elizabeth Spieler: in China they have a village that lives without marriage, but most of them die by age 40 due to STD’s
[2012/05/29 16:24]  Elizabeth Spieler: keeps populations low
[2012/05/29 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: that’s simply attachment to desire 😉
[2012/05/29 16:24]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Wowwwwww Elizabeth….what is the name of that village? I want to read that article!!
[2012/05/29 16:24]  Elizabeth Spieler: right extropia – I would simply choose to live without a man – but that is just me, seems like way to much work with no reward!
[2012/05/29 16:24]  James (dcosta): lol
[2012/05/29 16:25]  Elizabeth Spieler: then if the men face eachother they might fight, ugh seen that 100 times
[2012/05/29 16:25]  Lee (leezahsmiles): LOL Elizabeth men are a lot of work….especially in long-term relationships….
[2012/05/29 16:25]  ArtCrash Exonar: I have an internet friend who is in a three person relationship. They all live together AND have sex with each other. They seem to believe that it works. So I guess it IS possible….
[2012/05/29 16:25]  Elizabeth Spieler: way to much drama to my liking
[2012/05/29 16:25]  Lee (leezahsmiles): I know this for a fact… [[chuckles]]
[2012/05/29 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, a third of China is actually Tibet, and Tibetans don’t have legal marriages in the sense that we were discussing earlier.
[2012/05/29 16:25]  Extropia DaSilva: Art…this person…is she by any chance called…Khannea?
[2012/05/29 16:25]  Elizabeth Spieler: SL relation and RL are totally different
[2012/05/29 16:25]  James (dcosta): yeah somehow the maintenance effort by be looked at in relationships perhaps
[2012/05/29 16:26]  ArtCrash Exonar: nope not Khannea
[2012/05/29 16:26]  ArtCrash Exonar: heh
[2012/05/29 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: 🙂
[2012/05/29 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: ㋡
[2012/05/29 16:26]  Lee (leezahsmiles): True Elizabeth….I don’t understand SL partnerships at all….people claim to be dating who have never met in person!!! Oh gosh
[2012/05/29 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: Not totally different, Elizabeth.
[2012/05/29 16:26]  James (dcosta): but then, what you put in has something to do with what you get out
[2012/05/29 16:26]  Elizabeth Spieler: SL has no RL crap
[2012/05/29 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: In some polygamic societies, the criteria for allowing polygamy is to show that you’re wealthy enough to provide for all your wives….
[2012/05/29 16:26]  ArtCrash Exonar: Well with skype, you can easily have internet sex of a type.
[2012/05/29 16:26]  Lee (leezahsmiles): How do two people say they are “dating” who have never even MET? Who probably will never meet at all?? Who just talk online?? I do not understand how adults call that “dating”….
[2012/05/29 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. Can you date someone over the phone, lee? 🙂
[2012/05/29 16:27]  Extropia DaSilva: Lee, the point is they forge a relationship IN SL. Like, Gwyn and I have known each other for years and so we know we are NOT compatible. I mean, we like one another, but we are not suitable for dating each other.
[2012/05/29 16:27]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Noooo Gwwen
[2012/05/29 16:27]  Elizabeth Spieler: I can’t dwell with another woman, her and I might kill one another trying to rule the roost, however a weak and passive woman is excellent for polygamy
[2012/05/29 16:27]  Lee (leezahsmiles): You can not date by email or by phone….
[2012/05/29 16:27]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Noooooo
[2012/05/29 16:27]  James (dcosta): perhaps it’s some sort of pretend thing Lee, limited to sl
[2012/05/29 16:27]  James (dcosta): ?
[2012/05/29 16:27]  Elizabeth Spieler: women create drama !!!
[2012/05/29 16:27]  ArtCrash Exonar: Well Lee, it is possible in the same way you can have friends that are REAL friends in Second Life.
[2012/05/29 16:27]  Lee (leezahsmiles): True James…. I think it is all pretend…..
[2012/05/29 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No? Does that mean that if your partner is constantly on the phone talking to other people of the opposite sex… they’re not “dating” so it’s ok? 😉
[2012/05/29 16:28]  Extropia DaSilva: No it is not pretend. The reasons for attraction are as applicable in SL as they are in RL. YOu have to see that SL is a PL:ACE and then romance makes sense.
[2012/05/29 16:28]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Well Art…I have only been in SL for 3 1/2 mnths and I will never take any of these associations offline…. ever…..
[2012/05/29 16:28]  James (dcosta): i dont think it’s without all value.. a child playing with dolls, there is some value in that game
[2012/05/29 16:28]  Elizabeth Spieler: romance is 1% of the relationship
[2012/05/29 16:28]  Extropia DaSilva: ?
[2012/05/29 16:29]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Yes James….my avatar is a cartoon…it is not a reflection of me in RL physically at all…
[2012/05/29 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, phone sex is just ‘pretending’ if one assumes that all relationships require external factors 😉
[2012/05/29 16:29]  Elizabeth Spieler: what do you do with the other 99% of the time?
[2012/05/29 16:29]  Extropia DaSilva: One minute left, people!
[2012/05/29 16:29]  James (dcosta): brb
[2012/05/29 16:29]  ArtCrash Exonar: Online relationships are ‘pretend’ only in the sense that ALL of the various roles you play in your daily interactions are ‘pretend’. In other words. If you have that broad of a definition, it could be the case.
[2012/05/29 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Depends on what kind of ‘relationship’ you want.
[2012/05/29 16:29]  Elizabeth Spieler: Gwyn excellent pretending isn’t reality correct!
[2012/05/29 16:29]  Extropia DaSilva: So closing statements…are we outloving the capacity to love?
[2012/05/29 16:29]  Lee (leezahsmiles): One guy asked me for pics of myself….LOL For what???? We will never meet!! LOL Why does he want to know what I look like? LOL
[2012/05/29 16:29]  Elizabeth Spieler: Reality is waking at 3 am to feed the baby !!
[2012/05/29 16:29]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Ahhhhh the follly of SL
[2012/05/29 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Elizabeth, what is reality except what you perceive with your senses? 😉
[2012/05/29 16:30]  ArtCrash Exonar: Are we pretending to intellectually discuss here? I think this pretend is ‘real’ then.
[2012/05/29 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lee: right, that’s why I never send anyone a picture of RL me 😉
[2012/05/29 16:30]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Hi Sage!! Just noticed you…. **waves***
[2012/05/29 16:30]  Elizabeth Spieler: Gwyn – I decide what inputs into my senses – due to the law of garbage in means garbage out
[2012/05/29 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: exactly. It’s real because we all agree it is 🙂
[2012/05/29 16:30]  Lee (leezahsmiles): LOL Gwen He was shocked when I declined!!
[2012/05/29 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: Since the relationship is never going to move out of SL, what does it matter if person a projects desires onto avatar B and the person behind avatar B projects onto avatar A?
[2012/05/29 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lee: I’m not surprised; it’s the Facebook generation 😛
[2012/05/29 16:30]  ArtCrash Exonar: It is ALL real. Is my point. ALL of life is real.
[2012/05/29 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* & has to agree with Art
[2012/05/29 16:31]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Well Extropia, because desires have expectations attached…..
[2012/05/29 16:31]  Elizabeth Spieler: If I want to be starving homeless and alone I will feed my mind with fake garbage – then I will truly be the image of trash!
[2012/05/29 16:31]  Sage Abeyante: Hi Leezah 🙂
[2012/05/29 16:31]  Sage Abeyante: et al
[2012/05/29 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lee: there you go! Desires! Expectations! 🙂
[2012/05/29 16:31]  Lee (leezahsmiles): lol
[2012/05/29 16:31]  Elizabeth Spieler: oh I think SL relations help many to stay in bad hopeless marriages in rl
[2012/05/29 16:32]  Extropia DaSilva: I have known Jamie for seven years and I do not pretent to love her. I do because I came to know her and..well I grew to love Jamie and NOBODY will tell me I pretend to because I do NOT.
[2012/05/29 16:32]  ArtCrash Exonar: But you will be a REALimage of trash, Elizabeth! haha
[2012/05/29 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So they’re merely escapism for you, Elizabeth?
[2012/05/29 16:32]  Elizabeth Spieler: the brain can’t tell the difference of real or fake – it feels it ! believes it!
[2012/05/29 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[2012/05/29 16:32]  Lee (leezahsmiles): Some people ruin their RL relationships beacuse of theirlack of emotional boundaries in SL….
[2012/05/29 16:32]  Extropia DaSilva: that is true, Elizabeth.
[2012/05/29 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: These days, 1/2 of the new couples meet over the Internet in the Western world.
[2012/05/29 16:32]  Lee (leezahsmiles): I saw that on Oprah’s documentary on Second Life last fall….
[2012/05/29 16:32]  Extropia DaSilva: That is also true, Lee.
[2012/05/29 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, is that all escapism? 😉
[2012/05/29 16:32]  Elizabeth Spieler: no Gwyneth – I would not call it all escapism, some are saviors !!
[2012/05/29 16:32]  Lee (leezahsmiles): A lady left her husband for an avatar who had been lying to her about just about anything and everything….
[2012/05/29 16:32]  Extropia DaSilva: BTW my time is up!
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