Extropia DaSilva: Welcome to Thinkers…
[2012/04/17 15:33] Extropia DaSilva: Where today we are discussing…
[2012/04/17 15:33] Zobeid Zuma: Nah, let’s just swap tall tales today. 🙂
[2012/04/17 15:33] Extropia DaSilva: Oh, you want to?
[2012/04/17 15:33] Elizabeth Spieler: tall tales – how fun!
[2012/04/17 15:33] Zobeid Zuma: Well, maybe we should just schedule that as an event sometime, it might be fun.
[2012/04/17 15:33] Arisia Vita: My fancy is being with you all
[2012/04/17 15:34] Zobeid Zuma: What was our topic?
[2012/04/17 15:34] Extropia DaSilva: Well if anyone wants a crack at the topic..
[2012/04/17 15:34] Extropia DaSilva: Google’s Project Glass has been described as a vision of a post-pc era. How close to becoming obsolete is the PC, really?
[2012/04/17 15:34] Zobeid Zuma: Oh! Oh!
[2012/04/17 15:34] ArtCrash Exonar: Splain the project
[2012/04/17 15:34] Zobeid Zuma: We have to figure out what we mean by “obsolete” too….
[2012/04/17 15:34] Zobeid Zuma: Gwyn, hii!
[2012/04/17 15:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn drops glasses
[2012/04/17 15:35] ArtCrash Exonar: Hiya Gwyn!
[2012/04/17 15:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Thinkers of the future 🙂
[2012/04/17 15:35] Zobeid Zuma: I prefer the word “outdated” for most of these discussions. I think it’s less contentious. Because you know, something can be outdated without being completely useless.
[2012/04/17 15:35] Extropia DaSilva: Art, Project glasses aims to produce glasses that you wear which work like an Ipad.
[2012/04/17 15:35] ArtCrash Exonar: ahhhh
[2012/04/17 15:36] Extropia DaSilva: But you operate it with head gestures and voice commands rather than touch.
[2012/04/17 15:36] Zobeid Zuma: My fountain pens and my LP records are “outdated” but still practical for those inclined to use them.
[2012/04/17 15:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … or rather like an Android tablet hehe
[2012/04/17 15:36] Extropia DaSilva: Hey Gwyn, did you have a good time shopping for jeans with Art?
[2012/04/17 15:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It was a FANTASTIC time out 🙂 I had no idea it became public news! haha
[2012/04/17 15:36] ArtCrash Exonar: So the question is, will new information interfaces make the desktop computer go the way of the dodo bird?
[2012/04/17 15:37] ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2012/04/17 15:37] Extropia DaSilva: Gwyn everything you say here is public news. THat board of Ivy’s records all!
[2012/04/17 15:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I wonder… did tablets and smartphones turn the desktop into an obsolete piece of junk?
[2012/04/17 15:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oooh I forgot that, Extie!
[2012/04/17 15:37] ArtCrash Exonar: That is hilarious
[2012/04/17 15:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my. Big Brother is *everywhere*
[2012/04/17 15:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … and is wearing AR glasses.
[2012/04/17 15:38] Extropia DaSilva: I take it you do not believe the PC is endangered, Art?
[2012/04/17 15:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t think you will be able to use Photoshop on AR glasses.
[2012/04/17 15:38] Zobeid Zuma: The computer workstation isn’t going anywhere. People aren’t going to be doing photoshop, or writing novels, or doing spreadsheets, things like that with their smart glasses. Or even with tablets, for the most part.
[2012/04/17 15:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or AutoCAD.
[2012/04/17 15:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, Zo!
[2012/04/17 15:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn notices that Zobeid, like myself, is an alt of Rhi.
[2012/04/17 15:39] Zobeid Zuma: Haha! 😀
[2012/04/17 15:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excel on glasses. Voice activated. MMh.
[2012/04/17 15:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nope. It won’t happen.
[2012/04/17 15:39] Extropia DaSilva: Are not. You two were here before Rhi so if anyone is an alt she is an alt of one or both of you.
[2012/04/17 15:39] ArtCrash Exonar: I’m think that the answer will be all about quality of the experience. As long as the desktop maintains the highest level of imagery, it will stay. When virtual glasses surpass it, it will be ovah!
[2012/04/17 15:40] Extropia DaSilva: But can the VR glasses ever surpass it? The PC will always have more power.
[2012/04/17 15:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we have prequels, so why not pre-alts?
[2012/04/17 15:40] ArtCrash Exonar: So, philosophical question. If you have more than one avatar, are they all alts?
[2012/04/17 15:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Have we dumped the Project Glass topic altogether? hehe
[2012/04/17 15:40] Zobeid Zuma: Zobeid Zuma thought that was the definition of an alt…
[2012/04/17 15:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My fault really. sorry….
[2012/04/17 15:40] Extropia DaSilva: More than one in the same online world? yes.
[2012/04/17 15:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Back to AR glasses. I can think that they might displace low-end phones completely.
[2012/04/17 15:41] Arisia Vita: Hi TR
[2012/04/17 15:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that is a HUGE market.
[2012/04/17 15:41] TR Amat: Hi
[2012/04/17 15:41] Zobeid Zuma: Project Glass is the beginning of something new, and is therefore exciting. And if you look at the history of new things in computing…. We’ve usually failed pretty badly to imagine what uses they would ultimately find.
[2012/04/17 15:41] Extropia DaSilva: Yeah but I am not sure it counts as an alt if you have another name in another online world.
[2012/04/17 15:41] Extropia DaSilva: Hello TR!
[2012/04/17 15:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: you’re quite right on that
[2012/04/17 15:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi TR!)
[2012/04/17 15:42] ArtCrash Exonar: I’m thinking the technology will take off quickly if you can think of a way to use it for porn….. haha
[2012/04/17 15:42] Free Radar HUD: Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
[2012/04/17 15:42] Extropia DaSilva: You and porn!
[2012/04/17 15:42] Zobeid Zuma: People usually think in terms of what they already know. It takes a while for the imagination to catch up.
[2012/04/17 15:42] ArtCrash Exonar: No! I’m just saying that most technologys in the computer industry used porn as their first killer app.
[2012/04/17 15:43] ArtCrash Exonar: technologies
[2012/04/17 15:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that the problem with the high-end smartphones is that they try to do too many things on too little space… but still, they work. They can just be a bit confusing for non-techy people. For that market, I can imagine that AR glasses might displace the low-end phones totally, and carve a huge dent on high-end smartphones too.
[2012/04/17 15:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But desktops… well, they have a specialised use. Which will be hard to replicate on the kind of interface you can have on wearable computers.
[2012/04/17 15:43] Zobeid Zuma: Sort of like people in the 1970s trying to figure out what “home computers” would be good for. Well, you could keep your address book on it…. But isn’t your old filofax more convenient, really? @.@
[2012/04/17 15:44] TR Amat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Glass ?
[2012/04/17 15:44] ArtCrash Exonar: From talking to my friends, the consensus is that the smartphone is too small for the apps it has. I think a kindle sized unit or slightly smaller will be the ultimate portable device.
[2012/04/17 15:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could agree if someone says, “tablets will replace desktops. A combination of tablets and AR glasses will completely crush the workstation market”. Possibly. You’ll have everything on a tablet that a workstation does today, but on a smaller footprint.
[2012/04/17 15:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: yes, I agree
[2012/04/17 15:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even if you can cram a supercomputer into some glasses, the problem is the interface…
[2012/04/17 15:45] Extropia DaSilva: But with these glasses they might be able to create an illusion of a screen that is any size you want. I mean, it could look as large as an iMax screen.
[2012/04/17 15:45] Zobeid Zuma: I think that’s the way Apple have been going too… in terms of form-factor, screen size, I mean.
[2012/04/17 15:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I suppose people could type on the air on a projected keyboard though….
[2012/04/17 15:45] TR Amat: The trick would be to have a virtual keyboard as well, and let the glasses talk to any smartphone, say via Bluetooth. You’d then have something a lot more general.
[2012/04/17 15:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: yes. I can believe that by 2015, Apple drops out of the laptop/desktop market altogether
[2012/04/17 15:46] Extropia DaSilva: Wow the world would look like SL if that was the case, Gwyn.
[2012/04/17 15:46] ArtCrash Exonar: tablets still have slow input interfaces. When talking to the computer as an input device gets more sophisticated, maybe the tablet will take over the laptop computer.
[2012/04/17 15:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: TR: it might.
[2012/04/17 15:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: yes!
[2012/04/17 15:46] ArtCrash Exonar: Apple computer has abandoned their workstation market as of April !
[2012/04/17 15:46] ArtCrash Exonar: first
[2012/04/17 15:46] TR Amat: “Excuse me, I need to recharge my glasses.” 🙂
[2012/04/17 15:46] Zobeid Zuma: Their big success in “computers” has been the Macbook Air. It’s been taking all the sales away from their conventional-sized laptops, to say nothing of desktop models.
[2012/04/17 15:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: *talking* is very hard. Try to do Excel spreadsheets on a voice-activated interface! Or Photoshop! I’ve tried a voice-activated spreadsheet once, it’s unreal. Simply unworkable.
[2012/04/17 15:47] Extropia DaSilva: Is that right, Art?
[2012/04/17 15:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: hehe
[2012/04/17 15:47] Zobeid Zuma: Did they finally end the Mac Pro? I know that was rumored a while back.
[2012/04/17 15:47] ArtCrash Exonar: Good points Gwyn, and yes Extie.
[2012/04/17 15:47] TR Amat: Desktop computer are still more “future proof” than laptops, or smartphones, though obviously a lot less portable.
[2012/04/17 15:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Up Up Up COlumn Left No Right Delete! Delete! ARRGH NOT THAT ONE THE OTHER BELOW”
[2012/04/17 15:48] TR Amat: The think holding back smartphones for a long time has been decent interface – both display and input.
[2012/04/17 15:48] TR Amat: thing*
[2012/04/17 15:48] Extropia DaSilva: You know, if only SL would run on it I believe my primary would give up the laptop and PC and just use the iPad.
[2012/04/17 15:48] ArtCrash Exonar: I think why Apple abandoned it’s workstations is that they were far more expensive than the competition for the same hardware and their sales had been declining for a few years.
[2012/04/17 15:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: I’m sure that Rod Humble is thinking about that very seriously 🙂 The problem is if he has the development team for that.
[2012/04/17 15:49] TR Amat: In a lot of environments, you wouldn’t want to use voice – your want something handoriented.
[2012/04/17 15:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: TR: that’s ANOTHER problem I have with voice.
[2012/04/17 15:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Noise!
[2012/04/17 15:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Noise poillution.
[2012/04/17 15:50] ArtCrash Exonar: Yes, as we have found at thinkers, for example…..
[2012/04/17 15:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Imagine a classroom with students making notes about what the teacher is saying… using voice.
[2012/04/17 15:50] TR Amat: However, if te glasses could read you intended hand movements, as some pickups have done, you just think your typing at them…
[2012/04/17 15:50] Extropia DaSilva: Some people have the urge to do something handorientated when using what Art has often called the ‘killer app’ of computing technology……
[2012/04/17 15:50] Zobeid Zuma: Hmm…. My sources say the Mac Pro isn’t officially dead yet, though they’re up to something with it — either cancellation or a refresh.
[2012/04/17 15:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: TR: it’s not so easy to do it in the air actually
[2012/04/17 15:50] ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2012/04/17 15:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why I was thinking that a glass/tablet combination, where you actually have a flat surface which gives you some feedback, *might* work
[2012/04/17 15:50] ArtCrash Exonar: VEry skilled hand oriented they are too…..
[2012/04/17 15:50] TR Amat: But, I’d bet you’d need some sort of crown/tiara to read the brain patterns.
[2012/04/17 15:51] Extropia DaSilva: Years of practice..
[2012/04/17 15:51] ArtCrash Exonar: heh
[2012/04/17 15:51] Zobeid Zuma: You know…. Keyboards today are pretty good. Why are we so determined to get rid of them?
[2012/04/17 15:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because some people dislike typing?
[2012/04/17 15:51] Zobeid Zuma: I like typing. 😛
[2012/04/17 15:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So do I 😛
[2012/04/17 15:51] ArtCrash Exonar: Getting rid of keyboards is all about miniturization.
[2012/04/17 15:51] TR Amat: If you could have a virtual QWERTY keyboard, with some sort of tactile feedback…
[2012/04/17 15:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the problem, TR… tactile feedback
[2012/04/17 15:52] TR Amat: Smart finger gloves? 🙂
[2012/04/17 15:52] Extropia DaSilva: YOu ever notice how in movies everyone works the computer by typing away on a keyboard? It is like point and click never happened.
[2012/04/17 15:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: have you tried those virtual, laser-projected keyboards?
[2012/04/17 15:52] ArtCrash Exonar: interesting point extie
[2012/04/17 15:52] Zobeid Zuma: People carried around clipboards and notebooks for decades, and it didn’t seem to be an impossible burden for them. Now we have notebook computers with keyboards that are practically as small and light. Why the desperate need to make them go away?
[2012/04/17 15:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: yes, and most of the times they have Macs on the movies too 😉
[2012/04/17 15:53] Arisia Vita: I’ve been corresponding with these guys, quite a bit of potential here… http://singularityhub.com/2012/04/09/talking-with-the-founders-of-vergence-labs-as-they-take-the-first-steps-towards-merging-man-and-machine/
[2012/04/17 15:53] TR Amat: Mouse selection get you to your program, typing does complex detail work once you’re there?
[2012/04/17 15:53] ArtCrash Exonar: Apple Pays a lot of money for movie placement….
[2012/04/17 15:53] Extropia DaSilva: I think Ray Kurzweil predicted the keyboard would go away and we would use voice commands to do everything. I hope that is one prediction he got very wrong.
[2012/04/17 15:54] Extropia DaSilva: BTW he does voice recognition so maybe he has a vested interest in promoting it?
[2012/04/17 15:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, again, depends on the applinsumer, mainstream market, which just wants social applications and location-based goodies, the AR glasses are a great replacement for a regular phone. 🙂
[2012/04/17 15:54] ArtCrash Exonar: As Gwyn said, there are other not word applications, where voice is the wrong tool.
[2012/04/17 15:54] TR Amat: I do like the “read virtual keyboard typing intentions” out of the brain approach. 🙂
[2012/04/17 15:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *application … the consumer
[2012/04/17 15:54] Extropia DaSilva: OH yes, TR they are making progress in that area.
[2012/04/17 15:54] TR Amat: So – return of the Command Line? 🙂
[2012/04/17 15:55] ArtCrash Exonar: This makes me think…… a simple mouse like function for the headset might be the thing that makes the difference.
[2012/04/17 15:55] Zobeid Zuma: The Raspberry Pi boots into a command line.
[2012/04/17 15:55] ArtCrash Exonar: maybe triggered from your finger or something.
[2012/04/17 15:55] ArtCrash Exonar: by radio signal
[2012/04/17 15:55] TR Amat: The Raspberry Pi boots to whatever is on the SD card – could easily be a GUI.
[2012/04/17 15:56] Extropia DaSilva: The ones they have now use the ‘aha!’ brain pattern. Like, they flash up all the letters and when the one you want flashes up the brain goes ‘aha! That one!’ and the BMI reads it and knows you want that particular letter.
[2012/04/17 15:56] TR Amat: If they do port RISCOS to the RPi, you will boot straight into a GUI.
[2012/04/17 15:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/cellphone/e722/
[2012/04/17 15:56] ArtCrash Exonar: The technology that the Wii uses could be miniaturized and you could point at the air for the mouse, of course. Now that I think about it.
[2012/04/17 15:57] ArtCrash Exonar: But moving cars might interfere with it or any motion, really.
[2012/04/17 15:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: From what I understood from Project Glass, that’s how it works for taking pictures and the like
[2012/04/17 15:57] Zobeid Zuma: I don’t understand why anybody would want RISC OS.
[2012/04/17 15:57] TR Amat: I was impressed by the team you correlated brain activity with typing movements, and managed to be able to translate.
[2012/04/17 15:57] ArtCrash Exonar: RISC got it’s rear end kicked about 2004 or so.
[2012/04/17 15:57] Extropia DaSilva: So I can see that the PC will be around for a long time to come, but do you think the time will soon come when most people use glasses or tablets most of the time, with only occasional use of the PC?
[2012/04/17 15:57] TR Amat: No one want RISC OS, they just want a real operating system as light weight and easy to use as RISC OS. 🙂
[2012/04/17 15:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: tablets, yes for sure
[2012/04/17 15:58] TR Amat: The x86 is RISC, “under the bonnet”…
[2012/04/17 15:58] ArtCrash Exonar: no it isn’t it is CISC
[2012/04/17 15:58] Zobeid Zuma: Will cyberglasses become wildly popular? It could happen….
[2012/04/17 15:58] TR Amat: All thos ARM chips in phones etc are very definitely RISC…
[2012/04/17 15:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gosh, are people still discussing CISC vs RISC? I thought that was settled half a decade ago 😀
[2012/04/17 15:59] ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2012/04/17 15:59] ArtCrash Exonar: now we are talking about 128 bit!
[2012/04/17 15:59] ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2012/04/17 15:59] Extropia DaSilva: IDNUYA
[2012/04/17 15:59] TR Amat: The x86 is running a hardware converter of x*^ code to a RISC microcode, last time I looked.
[2012/04/17 15:59] TR Amat: x86*
[2012/04/17 16:00] TR Amat: I thought we were talking 256bit? 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:00] ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2012/04/17 16:00] Extropia DaSilva: (I Do Not Understand Your Acronyms)
[2012/04/17 16:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: you know, last week someone said something like this: “If Project Glass had been developed by APple, it would be a HUGE success”. Every Apple geek would buy one. And after a year we’d have Project Glass running Android and it would be a success, too. But since it’s Google leading the project, it can only fail 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:00] TR Amat: All the smarts is in the GPU these days, anyway…
[2012/04/17 16:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: xPU™
[2012/04/17 16:00] TR Amat: RISC = Reduced INstruction SEt, CISC = Complex etc.
[2012/04/17 16:01] Zobeid Zuma: That stings, Gwyn.
[2012/04/17 16:01] Extropia DaSilva: The promotional video makes the glasses look great. But then, it would.
[2012/04/17 16:01] ArtCrash Exonar: Has anyone actually used one of these devices?
[2012/04/17 16:01] Zobeid Zuma: I remember when everybody talked that way about Microsoft. “If it was from Microsoft it would be wildly successful, but those poor shmoes at Apple can’t market their way out of a paper bag.”
[2012/04/17 16:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: RISC: Very simple, very stupid, ultra-fast. CISC: complex instructions, supposedly easier to use them, but slower Well, anyway, that was the status quo in 1988 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:01] TR Amat: Can you run the promotional video on the Glasses, I wonder? 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:01] Zobeid Zuma: Excuse me, I meant “beleaguered Apple” there. 😛
[2012/04/17 16:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: I know! 😀
[2012/04/17 16:02] Extropia DaSilva: I thinl so, Art. They are being beta tested by Google employees.
[2012/04/17 16:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But yo know how it is.
[2012/04/17 16:02] Extropia DaSilva: *think
[2012/04/17 16:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Apple brings something out, it’s wildly innovative (even if it has all been developed by Xerox in the 1980s) and a huge marketing success, and Apple shares go up into infinity.
[2012/04/17 16:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A year later, everybody is copying them.
[2012/04/17 16:02] ArtCrash Exonar: I can’t wait till we can use a 3D headset in Second Life, I think that day will be very cool
[2012/04/17 16:02] Zobeid Zuma: I still have a mostly favorable view towards Google, though it sometimes seems like I’m the only one who does.
[2012/04/17 16:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: When Google does something… geeks will drool… and after a year or two they shut things down, or completely lose control of the project
[2012/04/17 16:03] Extropia DaSilva: You will be getting motion sickness unless lag is a nonissue, Art.
[2012/04/17 16:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: yep.
[2012/04/17 16:03] TR Amat: Google is trying not be be wrecked by “big company syndrom” – it is a hard fight…
[2012/04/17 16:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You are the last one. 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:03] Extropia DaSilva: Apart from their search engine and Earth and maybe Translate have Google had any successful product?
[2012/04/17 16:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A BIG advantage of the “big company syndrom” is that you are allowed to FAIL. So long as you have ONE successful product.
[2012/04/17 16:03] Zobeid Zuma: As compared with Microsoft who not only embraced “big company syndrome” but turned it into self-parody. 😀
[2012/04/17 16:04] ArtCrash Exonar: Google has decided to violate their own motto, and they became evil when they started requiring real identity for all of their products. So I am very suspicious of a company I used to admire.
[2012/04/17 16:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Earth and Translate are not successfuk products,. They’re successful technologies.
[2012/04/17 16:04] Extropia DaSilva: They do not require real identity.
[2012/04/17 16:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only successful products that Google has is ads.
[2012/04/17 16:04] TR Amat: Intel was/is supposed to use ablative Vice Chairmen – Woops! There goes another. 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that’s what matters.
[2012/04/17 16:04] ArtCrash Exonar: Android is quite successful, actually.
[2012/04/17 16:05] Extropia DaSilva: OK picky! But what succesful product/ tech have they come up with? I mean successful as in the masses use it a lot? Oh…yes Android.
[2012/04/17 16:05] Zobeid Zuma: Zobeid Zuma giggles at this new use of the word “ablative”. 😀
[2012/04/17 16:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Microsoft has two successful products: Windows and Office (bought, not developed originally). All the rest operate at a loss. Who cares? Those two keep the company afloat.
[2012/04/17 16:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Android is not a product; Google doesn’t make money out of it.
[2012/04/17 16:05] TR Amat: Google’s weakness is a lack of human factors input, I think.
[2012/04/17 16:05] Extropia DaSilva: And Xbox! Xbox Live.
[2012/04/17 16:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also there is not ONE Android. There are a zillion dialects: one for each brand of phone.
[2012/04/17 16:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Xbox Live? I’d be very hard pressed to believe Microsoft makes money out of it.
[2012/04/17 16:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: REAL money I mean.
[2012/04/17 16:06] Zobeid Zuma: Is Android another of those great “write once, debug everywhere” meta-platforms, like Java?
[2012/04/17 16:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Microsoft also makes money from ads. One billion per year. Not bad. But who cares, what matters is how many WIndows + Office copies are out there…
[2012/04/17 16:06] Extropia DaSilva: Maybe not, Do not know. I just know it is the best console-based online gaming service you can get.
[2012/04/17 16:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Google makes 42 billions/year 🙂 Who cares about Microsoft ads…
[2012/04/17 16:06] TR Amat: Android looks like the platform veryone but Apple will end up using…
[2012/04/17 16:07] ArtCrash Exonar: Microsoft makes the best computer keyboards too….. just sayin…
[2012/04/17 16:07] Zobeid Zuma: I’m not trading my Icekey for one! 😛
[2012/04/17 16:07] Extropia DaSilva: Do not say anythng nice about Microsoft in Zo’s presence, Art. She might unfriend you;)
[2012/04/17 16:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: TR: right! What a pity that Google lost control of Android 🙂 If they had charged 0.10 per license, they’d finally have TWO successful products by now 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:07] ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2012/04/17 16:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: and the best mice (except perhaps for 3D mice, I haven’t tried them)
[2012/04/17 16:08] Zobeid Zuma: Well, I’ve heard that Microsoft’s few ventures into hardware have generally been good. They were first with an optical mouse that didn’t need a special pad, which was a real step forward.
[2012/04/17 16:08] TR Amat: Acorn keyboards aren’t bad – designed to be bashed by school kids, I’m using one now boulght in 1996…
[2012/04/17 16:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All that is peanuts compared to their flagship products, Zo. An extra billion or two to round up the figures 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:08] Zobeid Zuma: That’s my one gripe about the Icekey, TR. They do wear out a bit too quickly under my useage.
[2012/04/17 16:09] ArtCrash Exonar: When I see Larry Ellison as the worlds second richest guy, I always think , What does Oracle to that is so great?
[2012/04/17 16:09] Zobeid Zuma: Catching full of cat hair probably isn’t good for them….
[2012/04/17 16:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You might have noticed that with Project Glass, Google is not making the same mistake as with Android….
[2012/04/17 16:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: databases!
[2012/04/17 16:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And only that 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:09] Zobeid Zuma: What’s that Gwyn?
[2012/04/17 16:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: they have tied it to hardware which can be SOLD 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even if they run Android, they’ll make money out of the glasses.
[2012/04/17 16:10] Zobeid Zuma: Ermmm… If the glasses are patented… I mean, Android has to run on hardware, but it’s not proprietary.
[2012/04/17 16:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the question is only how successful they are in establishing a worldwide retailer network to supply those glasses
[2012/04/17 16:11] ArtCrash Exonar: One think Kurzweil has been right about it the speed of technological change in the computer biz.
[2012/04/17 16:11] ArtCrash Exonar: increasing
[2012/04/17 16:11] TR Amat: So, combine the Glasses with Knect…
[2012/04/17 16:11] Zobeid Zuma: Google aren’t used to being in the hardware business, but maybe they should look at how Apple’s doing and give it a spin.
[2012/04/17 16:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, Zo: this COULD mimic the PC days. The hardware might be patented, but “open” in the sense that you can make “Project Glass-compatible” glasses
[2012/04/17 16:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: hard to play catchup!
[2012/04/17 16:11] TR Amat: Kinect* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinect
[2012/04/17 16:12] Zobeid Zuma: Apple is only indirectly in the hardware business. Apple products aren’t made in Apple factories, not for a long time.
[2012/04/17 16:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We know they have the industrial processing power to produce the glasses; they have bought Motorola. Now they have to create a way for people to buy them. Hint: it WON’T happen online.
[2012/04/17 16:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh I know, Zo
[2012/04/17 16:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just that Google CAN do it if they want.
[2012/04/17 16:13] Zobeid Zuma: Is Motorola still a serious player in processors and the like?
[2012/04/17 16:13] TR Amat: If you can also sense the movements of the person wearing the glasses (accelerometers? IR lasers?)…
[2012/04/17 16:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I agree, having a worldwide retailer network is more important than having factories.
[2012/04/17 16:13] ArtCrash Exonar: Yah, let’s not sell these huge companies short, they have their hands in tons of places. AND they have the money to hire the best and the brightest.
[2012/04/17 16:13] Extropia DaSilva: Oh, hello Rhi.
[2012/04/17 16:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: I have no idea, but Google thinks that at least it will allow them to sell a few phones…
[2012/04/17 16:13] Zobeid Zuma: Hi, Rhi!
[2012/04/17 16:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi Rhi!)
[2012/04/17 16:13] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): oh, hello, Extie
[2012/04/17 16:13] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Zo
[2012/04/17 16:13] TR Amat: Hi Rhiannon
[2012/04/17 16:14] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): It’s ok, Dom, didn’t notice it; still rezzing
[2012/04/17 16:14] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi TR
[2012/04/17 16:14] Zobeid Zuma: Zobeid Zuma feels nostalgia for 680X0. ;.;
[2012/04/17 16:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: it’s true, but all depends on putting things together in the right place at the right time…
[2012/04/17 16:14] TR Amat: The 64bit ARM is here soon. 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:14] Dom Lunasea: /looks for a rezzed seat to plop into
[2012/04/17 16:15] Elizabeth Spieler: if we look at how society lives to produce products for children, which is how the PC ended up in every house, were about to explode larger than ever before in this technology
[2012/04/17 16:15] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): So what’s are topic? computers Fred Flinkstone might use?
[2012/04/17 16:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: For instance, in the computer industry market, Microsoft has long since established a presence in all kinds of sales channels: from big corps which get visited by human sales reps, to mainstream shops which have a Microsoft corner… so they can easily push products along all the chain if they wish. Very quickly and easily.
[2012/04/17 16:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: Project Glass — Google’s AR glasses — and if they will replace desktgops
[2012/04/17 16:15] Zobeid Zuma: That’s an interesting thought, Elizabeth. (Incidentally, that was a bit part of Nintendo’s successful strategy.)
[2012/04/17 16:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Apple, by contrast, has created Apple Shops, which was a rather clever move
[2012/04/17 16:15] Extropia DaSilva: Whether we will all be using eyewear like google glasses instead of PCs, Rhi.
[2012/04/17 16:16] Elizabeth Spieler: we all exist “to please a child,” L. Frank Baum
[2012/04/17 16:16] ArtCrash Exonar: So does any one know when the AR glasses will hit the marketplace?
[2012/04/17 16:16] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): How are they going to do that? Just plug us directly into the intrnet?
[2012/04/17 16:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Google has no “shop” presence whatsoever, and their sales network, outside some selected countries, completely suck
[2012/04/17 16:16] Elizabeth Spieler: Education systems and government bought macs, and the studients bought the pc
[2012/04/17 16:16] Zobeid Zuma: Heh…. I remember all the predictions of what a disaster Apple’s venture into retail was going to be. 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:16] Elizabeth Spieler: without that factor we wouldn’t be in sl
[2012/04/17 16:16] Extropia DaSilva: I do not know, Art.
[2012/04/17 16:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: so do I! Lack of vision 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Blackberry’s company laughed at Apple when they started selling phones on the APple Shops
[2012/04/17 16:17] Zobeid Zuma: The Peanut Gallery is always present. Whenever *anything* new is mooted, they’re ready to ridicule the idea and declare it an obvious failure before it’s even attempted.
[2012/04/17 16:17] Elizabeth Spieler: I saw a film of third world countries having/getting ipads – that market blows my mind
[2012/04/17 16:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then they realised that even in their home city, Apple was selling more iPhones than Blackberry was selling their phones…
[2012/04/17 16:17] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, it’s always been like that–Patterson fired Watson, you may recall
[2012/04/17 16:17] Dom Lunasea: I was in a restaurant last month using iPads as menus
[2012/04/17 16:17] TR Amat: Glasses using 3G, 4G to arrive soon. 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:18] ArtCrash Exonar: Apple does well in it’s niches because so far it has been able to keep up with new developments. BUT as seen with their workstations, mature technologies will be able to bury them. So they must keep finding new products.
[2012/04/17 16:18] TR Amat: Much less room for high capacity batteries in glasses, thugh. 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:18] Elizabeth Spieler: yes when I told all my friends and family nearly all american homes would have a pc they laughed at me and called me nuts
[2012/04/17 16:18] Dom Lunasea: must’ve been last century
[2012/04/17 16:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… IF Google gets a whole sales network overnight and IF their glasses are priced as smartphones and IF they can get a few celebrities using them… maybe, maybe that becomes the mainstream product bestseller for next Christmas.
[2012/04/17 16:18] Elizabeth Spieler: interesting how ignorant most folks are . . some say the cost of education is to high, but the cost of ignorance can’t be measured
[2012/04/17 16:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lots of IFs there.
[2012/04/17 16:19] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Anyone who read Asimov would be more bewildered tht we don’t have our own individual robot–which I hear will happen in Japan
[2012/04/17 16:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Elizabeth: so well put!
[2012/04/17 16:19] Zobeid Zuma: I’m not sure Apple is getting “buried” in workstations. AFAIK they’re still profitable, but it’s such a small part of their business in comparison with the exploding iPhone + iPad, that it’s not worth their effort.
[2012/04/17 16:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: exactly! I want someone to press my clothes and wash the dishes!
[2012/04/17 16:19] Dom Lunasea: I recommend getting a wife
[2012/04/17 16:19] Dom Lunasea: 😉
[2012/04/17 16:20] Extropia DaSilva: *Raises eyebrow at Dom*
[2012/04/17 16:20] Zobeid Zuma: It’s like they can put engineering resources into a new Mac Pro, and it’ll make some money, but they can put those same resources into a new iPad that’ll make *buttloads* of money.
[2012/04/17 16:20] TR Amat: I’m looking towards the $1000 humanoid robot. 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: it also makes a good point of Apple’s strategy: they’re always on the move, and they ONLY keep around products that make HUGE profits. The “marginal” revenues from other sources are not interesting to Apple.
[2012/04/17 16:20] Dom Lunasea: iWife 2.0
[2012/04/17 16:20] TR Amat: Print spares for in on the 3d printer, at home. 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:20] Zobeid Zuma: Right. It’s about staying focused.
[2012/04/17 16:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I totally agree, Zo
[2012/04/17 16:20] ArtCrash Exonar: I remember talking to some major Computer Science types in about 1988 and they scoffed at the idea that people needed home computers and anything but a novelty device. One of those guys was a Carnegie Mellon computer science guy too… hahaha
[2012/04/17 16:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Focused on making money 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:20] Extropia DaSilva: Is it like the ipad in that you have to stroke iWife to turn her on?
[2012/04/17 16:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, there are a lot of stories like that, Art… hehe
[2012/04/17 16:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie 😀
[2012/04/17 16:21] TR Amat: What the modern wife needs is a wife to do all the home related stuff for her. 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
[2012/04/17 16:21] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Wife? I heard about those–some kind of male fantasy thing from the last centurey, right?
[2012/04/17 16:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Totally outdated concept 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2012/04/17 16:21] Elizabeth Spieler: I ignore any negative opinions
[2012/04/17 16:21] Extropia DaSilva: Is not. Seren calls me her wife.
[2012/04/17 16:21] Dom Lunasea: lol – most wife models need lots of stroking; fortunately thats the fun part
[2012/04/17 16:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: that counts as a fetish! lol
[2012/04/17 16:21] Elizabeth Spieler: it’s been my experience all negative opinions have been false
[2012/04/17 16:21] ArtCrash Exonar: TR, that is called a Husband…. heh
[2012/04/17 16:22] Extropia DaSilva: Oh I have experience of her fetishes, Gwynie!
[2012/04/17 16:22] Supergrade Berliner: I just got a popup saying the sl Security certificate is out of date–anyone know ?
[2012/04/17 16:22] Zobeid Zuma: My cat needs lots of storking, but doesn’t do anything useful. 😛
[2012/04/17 16:22] Zobeid Zuma: stroking, even
[2012/04/17 16:22] Extropia DaSilva: No, I know nothing about that, Super. Anyone?
[2012/04/17 16:22] ArtCrash Exonar: Super, that usually means you computer clock has the wrong date.
[2012/04/17 16:23] ArtCrash Exonar: your
[2012/04/17 16:23] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi LIsa
[2012/04/17 16:23] ArtCrash Exonar: check that
[2012/04/17 16:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I still think that the idea of AR glasses DO have an appeal as a “fun gadget” which might last long beyond merely a fad. All that is needed is a good brand behind it, and Google is an excellent brand. Now let’s see how they’ll market the product. If they do it right, as said, I think they might put a few dents in the lower end of the mobile phone market.
[2012/04/17 16:23] LisaSchaefer Ruby: hi rhi
[2012/04/17 16:23] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi Lisa
[2012/04/17 16:23] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): NIce hat
[2012/04/17 16:23] TR Amat: Maybe you put your Glasses on your robot, then she does all your work for you? 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:23] LisaSchaefer Ruby: ty
[2012/04/17 16:24] LisaSchaefer Ruby: I think nudists can wear hats
[2012/04/17 16:24] Supergrade Berliner: were becomming androids
[2012/04/17 16:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If *Apple* did it, it would be the next iPad (or next iPhone, or next iPod, or next whatever-Apple-did-in-the-past-decade-to-double-their-shares-value-overnight)
[2012/04/17 16:24] Extropia DaSilva: YOu mean cyborgs, surely?
[2012/04/17 16:24] Supergrade Berliner: ok cyborgs —
[2012/04/17 16:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (So I’m sure a lot of execs at Apple are gnawing at their teeth and praying to Jobs 🙂 )
[2012/04/17 16:24] ArtCrash Exonar: What google will make money from in Augemented Reality is not the hardware, but the advertising that comes from everything in the world being listed in the google interfaces you will see through them.
[2012/04/17 16:25] TR Amat: Clothes were the first thing that “cybernetically enhanced” humans, a few thousand years ago…
[2012/04/17 16:25] Zobeid Zuma: Apple’s winning streak has lasted longer than I expected already — and longer than Steve Jobs expected. He predicted that Apple could have a “golden decade” if managed right, and it has exceeded that.
[2012/04/17 16:25] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): But I’m confused. How is any of this possible? I thought MIcrosoft had a monopoly on everything.
[2012/04/17 16:25] Extropia DaSilva: Although everyone here could be an android in the future. But not humans. Unless they upload.
[2012/04/17 16:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: yes, if they have traction — ie. enough devices on the street to make it worthwhile
[2012/04/17 16:25] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): That’s what the government said in their antitrust suit
[2012/04/17 16:25] Elizabeth Spieler: Microsoft lost much power in a law suit
[2012/04/17 16:25] Elizabeth Spieler: it takes two to compete
[2012/04/17 16:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: you know, you just talked like a Microsoft patent lawyer! 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:25] TR Amat: Microsoft only have a monopoly on bad software? 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:25] Elizabeth Spieler: not allowed to be a hog lol
[2012/04/17 16:26] Zobeid Zuma: Microsoft still have a pretty firm lock on their little stronghold of the desktop and office software. But they’ve tried long and hard, and mostly failed, to expand that to the rest of the computer industry.
[2012/04/17 16:26] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I was joking, making fun of the idea that Microsoft had a monopoly; too many ways to compete and low opportunity costs for that to happen
[2012/04/17 16:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If Apple merged with Google, the world would end.
[2012/04/17 16:26] ArtCrash Exonar: Google earth and Google Maps will eventually list all the business in the world, and placement in those virtual worlds will mean a LOT for business marketing success. Google will make untold billions off of that I’m thinking……
[2012/04/17 16:27] TR Amat: Depends if you can write your own apps for the Glasses…
[2012/04/17 16:27] Supergrade Berliner: reminds me of a scene in the movie wali — The people were fat – looking at screens – and not at each other –
[2012/04/17 16:27] Extropia DaSilva: sell them the idea, Art. It might make you a fortune.
[2012/04/17 16:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think they already are, Art 🙂 42 billions per year is not child’s play 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:27] ArtCrash Exonar: Is there another company that is even partially situated to implement Augmented Reality? I don’t think so.
[2012/04/17 16:27] TR Amat: If you are interested in AR Glasses, etc, strongly recommend reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbows_End
[2012/04/17 16:28] Extropia DaSilva: I read that novel twice.
[2012/04/17 16:28] Elizabeth Spieler: United States v. Microsoft was a set of civil actions filed against Microsoft Corporation pursuant to the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890 Section 1 and 2 on May 18, 1998 by the United States Department of Justice (DOJ) and 20 U.S. states. Joel I. Klein was the lead prosecutor. The plaintiffs alleged that Microsoft abused monopoly power on Intel-based personal computers in its handling of operating system sales and web browser sales.
[2012/04/17 16:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If the point is AR + ads, no. I agree, Art. Google has 90%+ of that market.
[2012/04/17 16:28] ArtCrash Exonar: Thanks for the tip, TR….
[2012/04/17 16:28] TR Amat: Fun novel… Cruel in places. 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Facebook sells about 1.7 billion a year, Microsoft 1 billion, and they’re #2 and #3
[2012/04/17 16:28] Extropia DaSilva: TWO MINUTES FOLKS! OK closing comments on the future of AR and the death of the PC…
[2012/04/17 16:28] Supergrade Berliner: oh yeah we will be controlled by ads
[2012/04/17 16:28] Elizabeth Spieler: monopoly isn’t allowed in US economics
[2012/04/17 16:28] Dom Lunasea: so we have a cartel; not a monopoly
[2012/04/17 16:29] Zobeid Zuma: Zobeid Zuma reads…. “an intellect of frightening (and possibly superhuman) competence hiding behind an avatar of an anthropomorphic rabbit”
[2012/04/17 16:29] TR Amat: Will you be able to buy perscription Glasses? 🙂
[2012/04/17 16:29] Elizabeth Spieler: have to create a by product – check the invention of the model t Ford car where the by product was Kingsford Charcoal
[2012/04/17 16:29] Zobeid Zuma: Whatever happened to Peer Infinity, anyhow?
[2012/04/17 16:29] LisaSchaefer Ruby: sorry I just arrived. I’m not familiar w/ project glass, but is the intention to have holographs projected from our glaasses instead of monitors/phone screens?
[2012/04/17 16:29] Dom Lunasea: and AR contact lenses
[2012/04/17 16:29] Elizabeth Spieler: without that by product Ford wouldn’t exist
[2012/04/17 16:29] TR Amat: Peer had a nasty attack of RL?
[2012/04/17 16:29] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): The PC will die the way that buggy whips died–they’re still used, but not as universally
[2012/04/17 16:29] Extropia DaSilva: His primary is on Gchat as you speak, Zo.
[2012/04/17 16:29] Elizabeth Spieler: everyone has to work with every one else
[2012/04/17 16:30] Dom Lunasea: PC becoming a dumb terminal with content in the cloud
[2012/04/17 16:30] Elizabeth Spieler: if you attempt to be a monopoly they shut you down – the end
[2012/04/17 16:30] Extropia DaSilva: Oh, he is offline now.
[2012/04/17 16:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I sort of commented before. No, I don’t think that glasses will kill the PC desktop market. I think that, well marketed, they can become the “gadget of the year”, sell billions of ads, and start worrying Nokia and all the others low-to-middle-end phones, specially if the price of the glasses run below US$100
[2012/04/17 16:30] ArtCrash Exonar: Elizabeth: Microsoft was about to lose the antitrust case when the Bush administration called off the Justice Department…..
[2012/04/17 16:30] Extropia DaSilva: OK My time is up!