THINKERS MARCH 06 2012: TECH AND TEACHING


[2012/03/06 15:32]  Extropia DaSilva: Welcome to Thinkers!
[2012/03/06 15:32]  Extropia DaSilva: Today the topic is…
[2012/03/06 15:32]  Extropia DaSilva: TECH AND TEACHING: Does technology get in the way in the classroom?
[2012/03/06 15:33]  Zobeid Zuma: Hi Violet!
[2012/03/06 15:33]  Ivy Sunkiller: classroom gets in the way of technology
[2012/03/06 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: how so?
[2012/03/06 15:33]  Zobeid Zuma: What Ivy said. 🙂
[2012/03/06 15:33]  Ivy Sunkiller: we teach people useless knowledge that they have accessible all the time
[2012/03/06 15:33]  Ivy Sunkiller: instead of teaching how to access it
[2012/03/06 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: Is school still necessary?
[2012/03/06 15:34]  Ivy Sunkiller: it is
[2012/03/06 15:34]  Ivy Sunkiller: but the format is obsolete
[2012/03/06 15:34]  Zobeid Zuma: The traditional “factory school” rote learning system is obsolete and broken to begin with. Adding technology doesn’t fix it. It’s like putting a band-aid on somebody who has pneumonia.
[2012/03/06 15:35]  ArtCrash Exonar: Yes, Extie, you can return objects with your role.
[2012/03/06 15:35]  Ivy Sunkiller: on TEDxKraków there was a nice talk about “Children University” started in Poland
[2012/03/06 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: I mean in the sense of bricks and mortar schoolsw were you go to be taught, as opposes to self-teaching via the internet or taught online in some other way.
[2012/03/06 15:35]  Faylinn Erin: But teachers don’t always have enough time to use technology in the classroom. Say a lesson is 60 mins long; by the time you started up laptops for students to use thats 10 mins of lesson time gone (slow laptops!)
[2012/03/06 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: (thanks art!)
[2012/03/06 15:36]  Ivy Sunkiller: well, good thing tablets you don’t boot up
[2012/03/06 15:36]  Ivy Sunkiller: you just keep them booted
[2012/03/06 15:36]  Ivy Sunkiller: :p
[2012/03/06 15:36]  Faylinn Erin: Yes, but not all schools can afford tablets.
[2012/03/06 15:36]  Extropia DaSilva: and then the batttery dies, Ivy;)
[2012/03/06 15:36]  Faylinn Erin: Then we’d be going in a debate about funding, and thats never fun 😛
[2012/03/06 15:36]  Ivy Sunkiller: ipad’s battery holds long enough for a full school day of exploitation with ease
[2012/03/06 15:37]  Ivy Sunkiller: either way
[2012/03/06 15:37]  Ivy Sunkiller: instead of using tech in the classroom
[2012/03/06 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: Not if you were up all night playing Peggle..
[2012/03/06 15:37]  Ivy Sunkiller: use tech outside of classroom?
[2012/03/06 15:37]  Zobeid Zuma: Textbooks are expensive too. But if you can put the textbooks on the tablets….
[2012/03/06 15:37]  Ivy Sunkiller: teach the theory in class
[2012/03/06 15:37]  Ivy Sunkiller: and then have kids do exercises at home via internet
[2012/03/06 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: What traditional 3 Rs could you be better taught WITH Tablets?
[2012/03/06 15:37]  Ivy Sunkiller: instead of doing exercises in classroom and having kids read textbooks at home that they won’t understand shit from anyway
[2012/03/06 15:38]  Ivy Sunkiller: http://www.khanacademy.org/
[2012/03/06 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: If you have tablets would that not be a massive distraction with all the apps and social networks distracting from what the teacher is trying to teach?
[2012/03/06 15:38]  Zobeid Zuma: There’s a point.
[2012/03/06 15:39]  Ivy Sunkiller: ( you can find a speech of the founder of Khan Academy on TED too )
[2012/03/06 15:40]  Extropia DaSilva: I do not think my primary’s education would have been improved if ve had been playing Angry Birds through maths and English;)
[2012/03/06 15:40]  Ivy Sunkiller: Extie: you don’t really need any devices in the classroom, maybe a projector for the teacher if so needed
[2012/03/06 15:40]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I think good teaching requires more flexibility than most teachers are allowed, at least at the level of primary/public education
[2012/03/06 15:40]  ArtCrash Exonar: Some of my friends who are college teachers require that students turn off their phones when in the classroom.
[2012/03/06 15:40]  Faylinn Erin: In the school I’m currently at, in the classroom we have netbooks, a projector and an interactive white board.
[2012/03/06 15:40]  Ivy Sunkiller: Art: they have to ask that? I thought it’s common sense for students?
[2012/03/06 15:41]  ArtCrash Exonar: They have to demand that, otherwise everyone is texting continuously
[2012/03/06 15:41]  Ivy Sunkiller: >_<
[2012/03/06 15:41]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): We use lots of teleconferencing stuff at my college
[2012/03/06 15:41]  Ivy Sunkiller: I’ve quit college because I found it was bullshit
[2012/03/06 15:41]  Ivy Sunkiller: but that’s me
[2012/03/06 15:41]  Extropia DaSilva: Sherry Turkle reckons that when a phone vibrates in a locker the teenager who owns it knows it is vibrating like some weird 6th sense connection.
[2012/03/06 15:41]  Faylinn Erin: I’m inbetween that argument for phones. I often use my phone in a lecture to check notes/references
[2012/03/06 15:42]  Ivy Sunkiller: hey I know Assembler now, yay me!
[2012/03/06 15:42]  Ivy Sunkiller: that’s as useful in my professional career as knitting
[2012/03/06 15:42]  ArtCrash Exonar: Talking to one of the teacher friends specifically about this, they said that they teach from the back of the classroom wo they can see the screens on the computer laptops.
[2012/03/06 15:43]  Zobeid Zuma: I guess you could build a faraday cage around the classroom. 😀
[2012/03/06 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: Listening to lectures online is handy because you can pause and rewind. Makes note-taking easier.
[2012/03/06 15:44]  Faylinn Erin: Gosh yes, the most my uni does is put powerpoints online -_-”
[2012/03/06 15:45]  Extropia DaSilva: When I see things like the Singularity Summit with its keynote addresses and the audience is tapping away on their laptops, I wonder how much of what the person is saying they pay attention to.
[2012/03/06 15:45]  ArtCrash Exonar: A lot of students record the lectures on their computers.
[2012/03/06 15:45]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Phones are required to be turned off in all of my classes, but being able to record lectures or use them as quick references would be helpful…..but most students would just text, yeah.
[2012/03/06 15:45]  Ivy Sunkiller: yay internets
[2012/03/06 15:45]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): wb Ivy 🙂
[2012/03/06 15:46]  Ivy Sunkiller: Ivy Sunkiller really has to move to Germany
[2012/03/06 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: (Shuffles up to sit close to Ari)
[2012/03/06 15:46]  Arisia Vita: 🙂
[2012/03/06 15:46]  Faylinn Erin: It really depends on the age of the student. 18+ (for higher learning) the student should understand whats appropriate and what isnt.
[2012/03/06 15:47]  Faylinn Erin: I would not trust a 16 year old with a phone in class.
[2012/03/06 15:47]  Ivy Sunkiller: Extie: at TEDx they asked people to not use any devices during speeches, there was a room with couches for people who wanted to tweet
[2012/03/06 15:47]  Ivy Sunkiller: that streamed the speeches live on projector
[2012/03/06 15:48]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Well, I’m referring to college courses aaaaand….yeah, lots of texting
[2012/03/06 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: Any idea if that improved TED or not?
[2012/03/06 15:48]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): But I generally agree
[2012/03/06 15:48]  Ivy Sunkiller: it did
[2012/03/06 15:48]  Ivy Sunkiller: it was a very well organized event 🙂
[2012/03/06 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: But I would have thought TED would know how to use that kind of technology to its advantage.
[2012/03/06 15:49]  ArtCrash Exonar: I can easily forsee the day when people will not learn to write manually, because writing will all be done by talking to a device of some sort.
[2012/03/06 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: BTW what does it stand for? Technology, Entertainment and Design?
[2012/03/06 15:49]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I’m sort of having to relearn writing by hand….it’s been ages since I couldn’t just type everything
[2012/03/06 15:49]  Zobeid Zuma: A lot of people can barely write now. 😦
[2012/03/06 15:50]  Ivy Sunkiller: Extie: and they did – they had a room dedicated for tweeting, where you could still observe the speeches and saw all recent tweets on a big plasma screen 🙂
[2012/03/06 15:50]  Faylinn Erin: I hope that day never comes Art! I enjoy writing by hand, just as much as I enjoy reading a actual book rather than an ebook
[2012/03/06 15:50]  Ivy Sunkiller: Extie: and yes, that’s what it means
[2012/03/06 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: Even though we have calculators basic maths skiils is still necessary. I would imagine basic writing and reading skills would still be required even if we had the kind of tech Art is talking about. Which we do, I think. We have speech-to-text.
[2012/03/06 15:51]  ArtCrash Exonar: I enjoy paper books as well, I have a kindle available to me, but don’t like the experience that much.
[2012/03/06 15:52]  Zobeid Zuma: The Kindle can save a lot of shelf space.
[2012/03/06 15:52]  ArtCrash Exonar: I read somewhere where some schools have decided to not teach longhand writing anymore, only printing.
[2012/03/06 15:53]  Faylinn Erin: I like having lots of full shelfs!
[2012/03/06 15:53]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I prefer paper books as well…partly because having devices that store more things than I immediately need somehow diminishes them for me
[2012/03/06 15:53]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh I LOVE Kindle but then I am often researching an essay and quick access to my entire library with search functions etc really speeds up that process for me.
[2012/03/06 15:53]  ArtCrash Exonar: Kids are now learning how to use keypads/boards when they are two or three years old.
[2012/03/06 15:53]  Zobeid Zuma: I like having full shelves. I don’t so much like having full shelves plus stacks of books on the tables, stacks on the floor, boxes of books in the garage….
[2012/03/06 15:53]  Ivy Sunkiller: back on topic – in classrooms we teach kids as if they are tabula rasa, we stamp them with year of production and expect them to cover X amount of material over Y time or they fail and lose self esteem. In classroom we kill all the creativity and individualism the kids do have in the sake of preparing them for now obsolete industrial capitalism (while most modern countries have a big share of employment in services instead!). In that way, classroom gets in a way of technology, as with technology the kids can learn what they want and they can do it better and faster these days than a school could teach them.
[2012/03/06 15:54]  Zobeid Zuma: Art, one problem is that most schools aren’t teaching touch-typing. So kids are learning to use a keyboard, but they’re learning it all wrong.
[2012/03/06 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: So, Ivy. You mean School is like a shoe made in one size and if it does not fit you too bad you just fall on your ass or get crippled?
[2012/03/06 15:54]  Ivy Sunkiller: I’m pretty convinced that a homeschooled kid that does nothing but khan academy, supervised by parents, would end up smarter than 99.9% of school graduates
[2012/03/06 15:55]  Ivy Sunkiller: Extie: pretty much, yah
[2012/03/06 15:55]  ArtCrash Exonar: Ivy I still think that learning from someone with experience is better than learning from media of some sort. They can distill the necessary information easier.
[2012/03/06 15:56]  Faylinn Erin: I honestly disagree with your statement.
[2012/03/06 15:56]  Faylinn Erin: What child knows what ‘they want’ to learn. I even change my mind as an adult.
[2012/03/06 15:56]  Extropia DaSilva: I am sure I could teach myself anything CalTech or MIT teach using online resources. If I were smart enough to be an MIT student, which I am not.
[2012/03/06 15:56]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Yeah, I’m kind of wary of technology in a classroom for its own sake, but most of my education has been facilitated by computers somehow
[2012/03/06 15:57]  ArtCrash Exonar: Funny that one of my most valuable learned skills in high school was typing….. haha
[2012/03/06 15:57]  Ivy Sunkiller: Art: you are right and you are wrong. Yes – learning from someone who has experience is better. What is better than having gazillion teachers of which maybe 10% are really dedicated to their jobs? Having very few teachers that are dedicated to their jobs *ON VIDEO*, that you can rewind if you don’t understand something.
[2012/03/06 15:58]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I think it depends on the student; some are self motivated enough to get by on their own, but having someone to at least guide their education helps….
[2012/03/06 15:58]  Extropia DaSilva: Handy for Thinkers, Art. It is not all that uncommon to hear people say ‘oo you all type too fast I cannot keep up!’.
[2012/03/06 15:58]  ArtCrash Exonar: Trouble with watching a static lecture is that it is not very interactive. So no back and forth.
[2012/03/06 15:58]  Faylinn Erin: I agree Violet, some students can not get motivated if they do not have instructions from someone.
[2012/03/06 15:58]  Extropia DaSilva: Good point, Art.
[2012/03/06 15:58]  Zobeid Zuma: I did get a DVD course in Egyptology, by the way. That was fascinating stuff.
[2012/03/06 15:58]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I always typed “wrong.” But I type faster and better than most people I know. So, NYAH! home row :p
[2012/03/06 15:59]  Zobeid Zuma: There’s a company that keeps sending me catalogs full of DVD courses.
[2012/03/06 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: If you could chat with the person who delivered the lecture, would that help? Chat, message questions…
[2012/03/06 15:59]  Faylinn Erin: The school I work in (and the classes I deal with) are all students who have behavioural problems or learning difficulties. I could not put them on a computer, to the website you said and say “here you go boys”. It would not work for them
[2012/03/06 15:59]  Zobeid Zuma: I did wish that I’d got the study guide to go with the DVDs, though. Finding stuff on the DVDs without a printed guide can be quite frustrating.
[2012/03/06 16:00]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Interaction helps, yes. If there’s something you don’t understand, you can work to clarify it….
[2012/03/06 16:00]  ArtCrash Exonar: Contrast someone teaching a newbie in SL to use the interface with a new person just looking at a book or other reference. The hands on instructor can get right to what the person needs, whereas otherwise it would take far longer to learn the same thing.
[2012/03/06 16:01]  ArtCrash Exonar: Trying to learn Blender on your own or with video tutorials takes WAY longer than having a friend show you the basics, as another example.
[2012/03/06 16:02]  ArtCrash Exonar: It takes a while to understand the context of the new things you are using. The live teacher can make the context clear, faster.
[2012/03/06 16:03]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Well said, Art 🙂
[2012/03/06 16:03]  Faylinn Erin: I agree Art! Well said.
[2012/03/06 16:03]  Extropia DaSilva: Me too.
[2012/03/06 16:04]  ArtCrash Exonar: Do I get a gold star sticker to put on my forehead? haha
[2012/03/06 16:05]  Faylinn Erin: Sure! *giggles*
[2012/03/06 16:05]  ArtCrash Exonar: yay!
[2012/03/06 16:05]  Extropia DaSilva: You get to be chief milk monitor for the day.
[2012/03/06 16:05]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Okay, I’m nodding off in RL as much as I am here, so….goodnight, everyone 🙂
[2012/03/06 16:06]  ArtCrash Exonar: nitey Violet
[2012/03/06 16:06]  Extropia DaSilva: Goodnight!
[2012/03/06 16:06]  Faylinn Erin: Night Violet!
[2012/03/06 16:06]  ArtCrash Exonar: So does technology get in the way of learning? I guess it can. It can also help. So there you have it.
[2012/03/06 16:06]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2012/03/06 16:06]  Extropia DaSilva: So then…are we all finished? I have 25 minutes left but we can stop if you have said all you have to say:)
[2012/03/06 16:07]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Violet sticks a gold star on Art on her way out
[2012/03/06 16:07]  ArtCrash Exonar: who hoooooo!
[2012/03/06 16:07]  Faylinn Erin: I don’t know if anyone is interested, but Marc Prensky wrote a very interesting essay regarding tech/learning.
[2012/03/06 16:07]  ArtCrash Exonar: give us a link reference?
[2012/03/06 16:07]  Faylinn Erin: http://www.twitchspeed.com/site/Prensky%20-%20Digital%20Natives,%20Digital%20Immigrants%20-%20Part1.htm – It’s a very good read if anyone is interested
[2012/03/06 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: Gold (GOLD!) always believe in your soul/ You’ve got the power to know/ you’re indestructabe/ always believing/you are gold (GOLD!)
[2012/03/06 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: Thanks Faylinn, I will be sure to find that interesting.
[2012/03/06 16:09]  ArtCrash Exonar: Looks interesting
[2012/03/06 16:09]  Faylinn Erin: No problem. It was a very handy source for a paper I wrote
[2012/03/06 16:09]  Extropia DaSilva: So we all done?
[2012/03/06 16:09]  ArtCrash Exonar: What are students to be prepared for? Computer processing skills?
[2012/03/06 16:10]  Faylinn Erin: Life
[2012/03/06 16:10]  ArtCrash Exonar: So then, prepare them to get exploited? haha
[2012/03/06 16:10]  Faylinn Erin: Basically!
[2012/03/06 16:11]  Faylinn Erin: That they will fail, they will be let down. And everything goes downhill after you leave school
[2012/03/06 16:11]  Faylinn Erin: I’m half joking of course.
[2012/03/06 16:11]  Faylinn Erin: Faylinn Erin shifty eyes
[2012/03/06 16:11]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2012/03/06 16:12]  Faylinn Erin: In fact I told a bunch of 15 year olds today, that if they fail this exam, it’s their fault. They’ve had time to improve their grade.
[2012/03/06 16:12]  ArtCrash Exonar: What I would teach if I was Queen of teaching would be critical thinking and skepticism. And logical analysis.
[2012/03/06 16:12]  Faylinn Erin: Very good skills to have!
[2012/03/06 16:12]  ArtCrash Exonar: I would also teach typing
[2012/03/06 16:13]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2012/03/06 16:13]  ArtCrash Exonar: not one finger typing either
[2012/03/06 16:13]  ArtCrash Exonar: or two thumb typing
[2012/03/06 16:13]  ArtCrash Exonar: heh
[2012/03/06 16:14]  Faylinn Erin: I’m training to teach English 🙂
[2012/03/06 16:14]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think that education in general is to make people subservient and placid.
[2012/03/06 16:14]  Extropia DaSilva: I think life is running backwards. If we began at death and went from old age..things would seem better. After decades of being frail you would look forward to getting healithy and going to work, and after decades of work the long holidays students and schoolkids enjoy would seem fantastic..and then as you progress to infant hood you do not die you just get closer and close to mummy until you cannot distinguish between yourself and her.
[2012/03/06 16:14]  ArtCrash Exonar: That is what we call ‘being a good citizen’.
[2012/03/06 16:15]  ArtCrash Exonar: Extie, did you see the movie that had that as the premise.
[2012/03/06 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: Benjamin Button?
[2012/03/06 16:15]  ArtCrash Exonar: Yeah that one
[2012/03/06 16:16]  Extropia DaSilva: I did. 4 times.
[2012/03/06 16:16]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha, I saw it then forgot it when it ended because I was back in the womb.
[2012/03/06 16:16]  Extropia DaSilva: I am going to call a close to this discussion now.
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