THINKERS FEB 2012: AGE OF ABUNDANCE.

Extropia DaSilva: Welcome to thinkers!
[2012/02/14 15:34]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi Extie!
[2012/02/14 15:34]  Chraeloos: Hi everyone 🙂
[2012/02/14 15:34]  Lem Skall: this is not crap’s sim anymore?
[2012/02/14 15:34]  binker79: xcuse lem?
[2012/02/14 15:34]  darcon Xue: Thank you Lovetopia 🙂
[2012/02/14 15:34]  darcon Xue: Hello loves 🙂
[2012/02/14 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: Today’s topic was suggested by Khannea Suntzu and it is…
[2012/02/14 15:34]  binker79: i confuse
[2012/02/14 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: AGE OF ABUNDANCE: How will we handle an age of abundance?
[2012/02/14 15:34]  binker79: how to i make avs appear pls
[2012/02/14 15:35]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi darcon
[2012/02/14 15:35]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Ivy
[2012/02/14 15:35]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Arisa
[2012/02/14 15:35]  chapsaye: binker should appear atutomat
[2012/02/14 15:35]  Ivy Sunkiller: hey heyo
[2012/02/14 15:35]  darcon Xue: Hi Rhia love 🙂
[2012/02/14 15:35]  binker79: hmm chaps i try settings
[2012/02/14 15:36]  chapsaye: wtf naked man!
[2012/02/14 15:36]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): shouts: I’m turning off the guy in the microphone!
[2012/02/14 15:37]  chapsaye: when start pls
[2012/02/14 15:37]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): shouts: Hi Bryce, Extie, Chrae!
[2012/02/14 15:37]  chapsaye: therre is naked man with peni
[2012/02/14 15:37]  Spokesman Salomon: Nine minutes ago.
[2012/02/14 15:37]  binker79: i see the naked man
[2012/02/14 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: We have started.
[2012/02/14 15:37]  Lem Skall: extie, we need more context
[2012/02/14 15:37]  chapsaye: ok pls
[2012/02/14 15:37]  Lem Skall: what is the age of abundance?
[2012/02/14 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: I gave the introduction and now you give your opinions.
[2012/02/14 15:37]  binker79: naked man is well endowed
[2012/02/14 15:37]  binker79: in croatia we call that size mannyburger
[2012/02/14 15:37]  chapsaye: an age of abundanse is driven by need for things and lack of desirs to want other things
[2012/02/14 15:37]  Ivy Sunkiller: the opposite to the age of scarcity? or post-scarcity age I assume?
[2012/02/14 15:37]  Zobeid Zuma: Some could argue this is the age of abundance. :/
[2012/02/14 15:38]  Lem Skall: abundance of what? will everyone be beautiful and will have sex with everyone else?
[2012/02/14 15:38]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): If it were, Zo, then there would be no price to nything
[2012/02/14 15:38]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I presume that is what is meant by an age of abundance
[2012/02/14 15:38]  Zobeid Zuma: Well, if that’s your definition then it’s never gonna happen.
[2012/02/14 15:38]  Ivy Sunkiller: Lem: ewwwww
[2012/02/14 15:38]  chapsaye: LOL NICE LEN THAT SOUND GOOD
[2012/02/14 15:38]  chapsaye: chapsaye strokes Len’s hair
[2012/02/14 15:39]  Lem Skall: Ivy, sorry for offending your sensibility
[2012/02/14 15:39]  Lem Skall: who’s gestures are those? need to block
[2012/02/14 15:39]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zoe, well, we do need a defintion of that, then.
[2012/02/14 15:39]  Ivy Sunkiller: I don’t feel offended
[2012/02/14 15:39]  Extropia DaSilva: I think Khannea meant material abundance.
[2012/02/14 15:39]  Ivy Sunkiller: but I don’t really like the idea of having sex with *everybody*
[2012/02/14 15:39]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And if we mean post-scarcity, then we mean no prices
[2012/02/14 15:39]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): But with 1/3 of the population about to starve, don’t think we’re there
[2012/02/14 15:39]  Extropia DaSilva: Like, you can have all material desires at the press of a button.
[2012/02/14 15:39]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): No markets
[2012/02/14 15:40]  Chraeloos: So 3D printers?
[2012/02/14 15:40]  Lem Skall: Ivy, how about everyone wanting to have sex with you and you have sex only with who you want?
[2012/02/14 15:40]  binker79: isn’t there the ‘aw of scarcicity’ in economics whereby dminishing returns are achieved the more of a product is consumed – todays culture seem to be about greed and volume it fucking frsutrates me that people cannot be satisfied with just one car or one house. As a wise man once said, every human only needs 3 meals a day and one roof over their head
[2012/02/14 15:40]  Ivy Sunkiller: Lem: that sounds better 🙂
[2012/02/14 15:40]  Zobeid Zuma: Yeah, well there is an axiom that we learned on the first day of Economics 101: Human needs and wants are unlimited. Economics is all about apportioning limited resources among people with unlimited needs and wants.
[2012/02/14 15:41]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): scarcity is determined by preferences to alternative states of the world, binker
[2012/02/14 15:41]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Whatever they are
[2012/02/14 15:41]  Spokesman Salomon: They need food and roof, but don’t forget books: the three double “o”s.
[2012/02/14 15:41]  Lem Skall: we’ll just find something else scarce, so that we want that
[2012/02/14 15:41]  Zobeid Zuma: I’m not sure it’s ever been *proven* that wants are unlimited…. But it does kinda look that way.
[2012/02/14 15:41]  Spokesman Salomon: Gold.
[2012/02/14 15:42]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zo, doesn’t matter;. Scarcity is determined by preferences about alternative states of the world
[2012/02/14 15:42]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Unless you understand that, you aren’t holding a rational discussion
[2012/02/14 15:42]  Lem Skall: works of art
[2012/02/14 15:43]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Lem, have you ever read “Beware of Terrans bearing Gifts?” Talk about a post-scarcity world.
[2012/02/14 15:43]  Lem Skall: Iain Banks had some interesting books on that idea
[2012/02/14 15:43]  Lem Skall: Rhi, who wrote that?
[2012/02/14 15:43]  Zobeid Zuma: Is economics supposed to be rational? I thought it was dismal!
[2012/02/14 15:43]  Chraeloos: Rhia, I think all “states of being” are determined by alternative states
[2012/02/14 15:43]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I forget the author, it was in an old Analog
[2012/02/14 15:43]  Chraeloos: everything is comparable
[2012/02/14 15:44]  Spokesman Salomon: Čapek addressed the matter of affluence repeatedly, most famously in “RUR”.
[2012/02/14 15:44]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And I asked because the author posited that works of art–original ones–would be the only things of value in a post scarcity world
[2012/02/14 15:44]  Lem Skall: whoa, old Karel
[2012/02/14 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: Economics is rational but people tend not to be rational in the way economic game theory assumes agents are.
[2012/02/14 15:45]  Chraeloos: Ah Rhia, you finally appeared!
[2012/02/14 15:45]  Zobeid Zuma: My point would be… How could this supposed “post scarcity world” possibly come about?
[2012/02/14 15:45]  Bryce Galbraith: Yep, indeed Exti. Hence the ‘rational actor’ problem….
[2012/02/14 15:45]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I’ve been here for fifteen minutes it’s just no one noticed me, Chrae
[2012/02/14 15:45]  Lem Skall: Rhi, can’t find the book
[2012/02/14 15:45]  Lem Skall: or is it short story?
[2012/02/14 15:45]  Extropia DaSilva: Molecular assemblers, Zo.
[2012/02/14 15:45]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): It’s a story in Analog, an old edition.
[2012/02/14 15:45]  Chraeloos: Haha, you only exist if you’re seen, yes? Rather Hume-esque
[2012/02/14 15:45]  Ivy Sunkiller: Zo: 3d printers/molecule printers/matter compilers + nano tech to harvest trash
[2012/02/14 15:46]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I text, therefore I am, Chrae
[2012/02/14 15:46]  Spokesman Salomon: Berkeley, not Hume.
[2012/02/14 15:46]  Lem Skall: so short story
[2012/02/14 15:46]  Chraeloos: haha aw
[2012/02/14 15:46]  Ivy Sunkiller: the rest is about getting energy, but if you can print out solar panels at home
[2012/02/14 15:46]  Ivy Sunkiller: that shouldn’t be too hard either
[2012/02/14 15:46]  Chraeloos: Spokes, if you were at the E&S discussino earlier you’d know what I meant haha
[2012/02/14 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: Is being perceived the same thing as being seen? Anyway Hume was the problem of induction guy, biship Berkely was the perception guy.
[2012/02/14 15:46]  Lem Skall: how about an abundance of transplant orfans?
[2012/02/14 15:46]  Lem Skall: organs
[2012/02/14 15:46]  Zobeid Zuma: I don’t think all of that put together would get us to the kind of economics-becomes-irrelevant scenario that you guys seem to imagine.
[2012/02/14 15:47]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zoe, well, it’s not that economics is irrelevant, it’s just that abundance is to economics what a black hole is to physics
[2012/02/14 15:47]  Bryce Galbraith: heh heh … interesting analogy Rhi 🙂
[2012/02/14 15:47]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): All economic laws, supply and demand, diminishing returns, marginal utility, depend on scarcity
[2012/02/14 15:48]  Zobeid Zuma: There’s a huge psychological hurdle that you have to somehow get past or break down…
[2012/02/14 15:48]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): ty, Bryce
[2012/02/14 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: OK for sake of argument there is this amazing replicator that can make any material good you want at extreme low cost, including more replicators like itself. How would we handle such powers?
[2012/02/14 15:48]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): It’s why Marx couldn’t describe the communist utopia, which is post-scarcity
[2012/02/14 15:48]  Zobeid Zuma: And that is: Keeping Up With The Joneses. i.e. Conspicuous Consumption
[2012/02/14 15:48]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, in the short story I mentioned, there was a collapse of government and complete individual autonomy
[2012/02/14 15:48]  Lem Skall: Extie, I think we will waste it on making useless things
[2012/02/14 15:49]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): That’s why the Terrans had to go through the galaxy giving it to other civilizations–so they’d collapse too
[2012/02/14 15:49]  Zobeid Zuma: Because if there’s any limit to Conspicuous Consumption, it hasn’t been found yet. It’s a completely arbitrary and relativistic scale that just keeps going up.
[2012/02/14 15:49]  Bryce Galbraith: I suppose one possible reaction is that we would _create_ a situation of scarcity.
[2012/02/14 15:49]  Zobeid Zuma: You mean like we’re doing now with IP and DRM, Bryce?
[2012/02/14 15:49]  Bryce Galbraith: That is, create a situation in which we preserve the condition of scarcity since it is connected to how so much in society works. We may even do that without thinking of it…
[2012/02/14 15:50]  darcon Xue: There is abundance in everywere. The next abundance would be garbage abundance if we not stop doing and making useless things based in scarcity. 🙂
[2012/02/14 15:50]  Bryce Galbraith: Yes Zobeid… 🙂
[2012/02/14 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes. SL creates an artificial scarcity with its no copy no transfer options.
[2012/02/14 15:50]  Zobeid Zuma: Yes… I’m all against artificial scarcity.
[2012/02/14 15:50]  Lem Skall: we value things by their scarcity, if scarcity is gone then we wouldn’t value anything anymore and we would lose a lot of our motivation
[2012/02/14 15:50]  ArtCrash Exonar: How will the whole culture handle abundance? Well I think there might be some good consequenses. People will not have to steal things in order to survive for one.
[2012/02/14 15:50]  Spokesman Salomon: Current society is based on supply and scarcity, but we needn’t suppose future socieites will be.
[2012/02/14 15:51]  Bryce Galbraith: Well… maybe Lem. Or maybe we would really start to value the things that actually _do_ have meaning to us (which may still be material things too…)
[2012/02/14 15:51]  Zobeid Zuma: Lem — Are you thinking Conspicuous Consumption would actually die out if material things became so plentiful as to have no meaning?
[2012/02/14 15:51]  Ivy Sunkiller: Art: how about piracy? 🙂
[2012/02/14 15:51]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, this was also addressed in TNG. With replicators, the capitalist’s job was gone. And he asked, “Where’s the challenge?” Picard replied, “Self improvement.”
[2012/02/14 15:51]  Lem Skall: Art, people will still find something to steal, think of the very rich cleptomaniacs who shoplift
[2012/02/14 15:51]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And Marx thought we’d all be Renaissnce people, like Lleonardo
[2012/02/14 15:51]  ArtCrash Exonar: Not ALL value comes from scarcity. Like a library is abundance and still has value.
[2012/02/14 15:51]  Bryce Galbraith: Oh, I remember that episode Rhi 🙂
[2012/02/14 15:51]  Ivy Sunkiller: is it moral to “steal from artists” if the artists don’t need to sell their art?
[2012/02/14 15:51]  Lem Skall: what about copyright in such a world of abundance?
[2012/02/14 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: yeah Lem, in GTA a vehicle has little to no value because you can always get another one if you wrieck the one you are driving.
[2012/02/14 15:52]  Ivy Sunkiller: Lem: was getting to it
[2012/02/14 15:52]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Would there even be property if abundance
[2012/02/14 15:52]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Marx thought private property would dissolve in such a society
[2012/02/14 15:52]  Ivy Sunkiller: what about copyrights to schematics to molecule printers
[2012/02/14 15:52]  ArtCrash Exonar: abundance might result in lots of waste on the other hand.
[2012/02/14 15:52]  Spokesman Salomon: Copyright is an artificial way of creating scarcity.
[2012/02/14 15:52]  Zobeid Zuma: People are always going to find some way to rank themselves.
[2012/02/14 15:52]  Chraeloos: Rhia, do you think he was right?
[2012/02/14 15:52]  darcon Xue: RL scarcity is fake as well. I t was built 🙂
[2012/02/14 15:52]  Zobeid Zuma: Would waste be seen as a bad thing, Art? 🙂
[2012/02/14 15:52]  Bryce Galbraith: Somehow I think we’d still have property… mainly because we can get emotionally attached to objects. There are many MacBook Pros in the world.. but this one is _mine_…
[2012/02/14 15:52]  Ivy Sunkiller: you can’t print that piece of clothing because there is a copyright owner of it!
[2012/02/14 15:53]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, again, private property, and everything associated with it, is a way of organizing scarcity and creating abundance
[2012/02/14 15:53]  Zobeid Zuma: Clothes aren’t subject to copyright!
[2012/02/14 15:53]  Extropia DaSilva: Rhi so long as land is not limitless I would imagine property would have value.
[2012/02/14 15:53]  Zobeid Zuma: A lot of people don’t know that. 🙂
[2012/02/14 15:53]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): We’d have a completely different wsocial organization in post scarcity
[2012/02/14 15:53]  Ivy Sunkiller: Zo: yet
[2012/02/14 15:54]  ArtCrash Exonar: Many Rich people realize that abundance does not create happiness. They find it in other ways.
[2012/02/14 15:54]  darcon Xue: In a society where everyone has everything, nobody owns anything. 🙂
[2012/02/14 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: Wealth may not buy happiness but poverty invariably purchases misery.
[2012/02/14 15:54]  Zobeid Zuma: Yeah, studies have shown that wealth has practically no relation to happiness.
[2012/02/14 15:54]  Bryce Galbraith: Well said Exti 🙂
[2012/02/14 15:54]  Lem Skall: maybe everyone will wear a lot of people will be so disappointed without brand names to wear
[2012/02/14 15:55]  Elizabeth Spieler: I know lots of happy people living in poverty
[2012/02/14 15:55]  Lem Skall: sorry, a lot of people will be so disappointed without brand names to wear
[2012/02/14 15:55]  ArtCrash Exonar: Nothing will stop creativity from creating originality. Abundance doesn’t mean sameness.
[2012/02/14 15:55]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zoe, are you joking?
[2012/02/14 15:55]  Zobeid Zuma: About what?
[2012/02/14 15:55]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh hello again Alexi. Nice to see you here again.
[2012/02/14 15:56]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I heard that actually, in US, the higher the inccome the happier tghe people claim to be
[2012/02/14 15:56]  Lem Skall: Art, as soon someone is going to wear a dress at the Oscars, every woman will wear that dress the next day
[2012/02/14 15:56]  ArtCrash Exonar: Only the strivers Lem
[2012/02/14 15:56]  Lem Skall: and the men too ;P
[2012/02/14 15:56]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): You go from happy (lower middle class) to very happy (upper middle class) to extremely happy (rich)
[2012/02/14 15:56]  Zobeid Zuma: Oh? I didn’t see that one. The report I saw found that once you had your basic needs met, further wealth didn’t really do anything, and your relationships with other people become what matters.
[2012/02/14 15:56]  Bryce Galbraith: On the relation between income and happiness, I’ve actually heard competing claims… some challenge how certain studies were done, etc.
[2012/02/14 15:57]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Bryce, always the case in sociology
[2012/02/14 15:57]  Lem Skall: here’s an idea, maybe everyone will become a clothes designer to design their own clothes and be original
[2012/02/14 15:57]  Bryce Galbraith: In lots of fields Rhi… 🙂
[2012/02/14 15:57]  Zobeid Zuma: I know people who come into money often react in very very different ways, which probably means our generalizations could lead us astray….
[2012/02/14 15:57]  ArtCrash Exonar: The world happiness survey shows a link between income and happiness, but only up until the point when one’s basic needs are met.
[2012/02/14 15:57]  Extropia DaSilva: I heard that when everyone around you as at the same level you tend to be happy, but when there is a sharp divide between the wealth of peope around you that breeds discontent.
[2012/02/14 15:57]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Lem, well, the thing is, only originality will be scarce in a post scaracity world
[2012/02/14 15:57]  Lem Skall: instead of struggling to survive, people will struggle to be different
[2012/02/14 15:58]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Copyright might be the only form of private property left, actually
[2012/02/14 15:58]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And the only thing worth stealing
[2012/02/14 15:58]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And if you die, have your friends put you in the replicator–and you can pop out again
[2012/02/14 15:58]  Bryce Galbraith: Hmmm. It feels like we are focusing on the ‘having’ part of life with regard to post-scarcity. What about work itself? What happens to work in a post-scarcity civilization?
[2012/02/14 15:58]  Zobeid Zuma: You have people who win the lottery and then just sock the money away and carry on with their regular job.
[2012/02/14 15:58]  Bryce Galbraith: For some folks, maybe that means a perpetual vacation… but for others that can be a big challenge since so much is tied up in what we do for a living.
[2012/02/14 15:58]  Zobeid Zuma: You have people who buy ferraris and yachts and diamonds to flaunt.
[2012/02/14 15:59]  ArtCrash Exonar: Abundance doesn’t mean no property ownership by default. It just means lots of property ownership.
[2012/02/14 15:59]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Art, true, but with abundance, no capitalism, no private ownership of the means of production
[2012/02/14 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: Lem, arguably that stage has been reached already. We make ourselves indivduals by all aquiring the same mass produced products as everyone else.
[2012/02/14 15:59]  Lem Skall: services may not be eliminated by this abundance
[2012/02/14 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh, Khannea is here.
[2012/02/14 15:59]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): “Donald Trump’s job–gone” (a paraphrase of Edmund Burke)
[2012/02/14 15:59]  Zobeid Zuma: And then you have serial entrepreneurs who strike it big and then pour the money into the next venture, and the next one after that.
[2012/02/14 15:59]  Bryce Galbraith: heh heh… good observation Exti 🙂
[2012/02/14 15:59]  ArtCrash Exonar: ha ha Extie, that is well said
[2012/02/14 15:59]  Bryce Galbraith: Hi Khannea!
[2012/02/14 16:00]  Extropia DaSilva: Khannea, this is your topic. What would you like us to discuss about it?
[2012/02/14 16:00]  Khannea Suntzu: Hey! … y’all
[2012/02/14 16:00]  Chraeloos: Hi Khannea
[2012/02/14 16:00]  Khannea Suntzu: Sorry I was parachuted in, I’d need time to acclimitize.
[2012/02/14 16:00]  Zobeid Zuma: Incidentally, I think the entrepreneur model is probably the healthiest. Although it does raise questions about a few people directing large amounts of our society’s resources.
[2012/02/14 16:01]  Zobeid Zuma: Hey Khannea! 🙂
[2012/02/14 16:01]  ArtCrash Exonar: So, I hear people saying that competetive instincts will result in people creating differences between themselves regardless of abundance of goods.
[2012/02/14 16:01]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zoe, I agree, but again, I think Marx and Gene Roddenberry have a point–capitalists only have a function in a world of scarcity
[2012/02/14 16:01]  Extropia DaSilva: Well Khannea my intro was AGE OF ABUNDANCE: How will we handle an age of abundance?
 . If you want to add anything to steer the debate in some particular direction, feel free!
[2012/02/14 16:01]  Zobeid Zuma: Somebody has to direct those resources. If not capitalists, then who? Appointed bureaucrats?
[2012/02/14 16:02]  ArtCrash Exonar: what a warped view
[2012/02/14 16:02]  ArtCrash Exonar: Everyone!
[2012/02/14 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zoe, there wouldn’t be appointed bureaucrats either. In a post-scarcity world, every individual would be sovereign; that was the point of the author in “Beware of Terrans Bearing Gifts.”
[2012/02/14 16:02]  Bryce Galbraith: Technocrats of some kind ? which I guess could be the same as the entrepreneur model you noted… or it could be different..
[2012/02/14 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Ecconomics–dead
[2012/02/14 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Governments–collapsed
[2012/02/14 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): We’d either cooperate, or we’d spin off in fragments
[2012/02/14 16:02]  Khannea Suntzu: Can’t type extreme cvhat lag
[2012/02/14 16:02]  Zobeid Zuma: Every individual would be sovereign? What does that even mean? 😛
[2012/02/14 16:03]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): You can do anything you want, is what it would meamn
[2012/02/14 16:03]  Elizabeth Spieler: what about quality control?
[2012/02/14 16:03]  Spokesman Salomon: Why do you emphasise “appointed”?
[2012/02/14 16:03]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): No scarcity; no limits
[2012/02/14 16:03]  Chraeloos: Police force?
[2012/02/14 16:03]  ArtCrash Exonar: In an age of abundance there is no need for large accumulated piles of capital. Small capital from everyone is the rule.
[2012/02/14 16:03]  Elizabeth Spieler: so I could open a restaurant and sell mud pies?
[2012/02/14 16:03]  Lem Skall: friends will be limited
[2012/02/14 16:03]  Zobeid Zuma: Does it mean we don’t need organizations anymore? There’s never any need for multiple people to cooperate on any project, since any individual has the resources to go it alone?
[2012/02/14 16:03]  Bryce Galbraith: Bryce Galbraith wonders if places like Las Vegas would collapse in a post-scarcity world… or maybe gambling can exist on its own terms…
[2012/02/14 16:03]  Spokesman Salomon: There is likely to be an influential élite in any society, and there is a number of ways they could establish their position.
[2012/02/14 16:03]  Extropia DaSilva: Maybe that we all own a Seastead and run it like our own private king or queendom with its own laws set by ourselves, Zo?
[2012/02/14 16:04]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Liz, you could open a restaruent, sell mud pies, and no one would buy them
[2012/02/14 16:04]  Lem Skall: will pets also be unlimited?
[2012/02/14 16:04]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Bryce, well, there’s always strip poker…
[2012/02/14 16:04]  ArtCrash Exonar: Cooperation is not a function of Capital. Far from it.
[2012/02/14 16:04]  Bryce Galbraith: heh heh Rhi 🙂
[2012/02/14 16:04]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Some things would still be scarce. ::smiles beguilingly::
[2012/02/14 16:04]  Extropia DaSilva: Rhi you would loose at strip poker before you even began;)
[2012/02/14 16:04]  Khannea Suntzu: Money is a claim on scarce resources and people’s labor. I don’t see scarcity completely go away. One scarce thing will in quick order be the right to assert and reproduce.
[2012/02/14 16:04]  darcon Xue: 😀
[2012/02/14 16:04]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, I know.
[2012/02/14 16:04]  Zobeid Zuma: I’d like to cover the moon with a layer of computational material to run VR simulations. But unfortunately, there’s only one moon… And I’m not sure they’ll give it to me. 😦
[2012/02/14 16:05]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): It’s a cross I have to bear (put intended)
[2012/02/14 16:05]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zo, you can create your own moon in a post scarcity society
[2012/02/14 16:05]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): True, it might have to be way out in space. Hey, wo there’d at least be an EPA still left. lol
[2012/02/14 16:05]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think we need to define Abundance. It is not abundance of everything. It is abundance of all that one needs.
[2012/02/14 16:05]  Zobeid Zuma: I don’t think we have any technology in the mill that would allow creating matter on that scale. 😛
[2012/02/14 16:05]  Khannea Suntzu: Oh great. Then I’ll make everyone real happy and create 500 copies of myself.
[2012/02/14 16:06]  Zobeid Zuma: Also, it would mess up the tides!
[2012/02/14 16:06]  Extropia DaSilva: OK on a practical level the famed molecular assembler would not make *everything* abundently available. For instance, it cannot create more gold because that requires nuclear physics rather than mechano-chemistry.
[2012/02/14 16:06]  darcon Xue: we can not cread scarcity. We only can cread abudance of other thing. 🙂
[2012/02/14 16:06]  ArtCrash Exonar: Then India would not like the molecular assembler much.
[2012/02/14 16:06]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, Extie, in a post scarcity society, with replicators, we would ddissamble atoms and reassemble them anyway we’d want
[2012/02/14 16:06]  Zobeid Zuma: Right. It can’t make gold, but it could mine gold efficiently, and extract it from seawater, and of course you could go get gold from asteroids. But transmutation, not so practical.
[2012/02/14 16:07]  ArtCrash Exonar: Desire for gold in most cases is desire for security, I’m thinking.
[2012/02/14 16:07]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, we wouldn’t be in abundance without transmutation. And it is possible, just incredibly expensive–now
[2012/02/14 16:07]  Zobeid Zuma: If gold were plentiful it would make a great material for bullets. Better than lead. :/
[2012/02/14 16:07]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): But aftger the first replicator, we’d have no problem
[2012/02/14 16:07]  Bryce Galbraith: Hmm.. Actually, theoretically we could have a post-scarcity society now. If everyone was a monk or something and consumed very little each day then we probably have the tech. to achieve what is effectively an ‘abundance’ now. Again, it depends on the nature of the culture/society.
[2012/02/14 16:08]  Bryce Galbraith: Now realistically that won’t happen.. being a monk is pretty hard in fact 🙂
[2012/02/14 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Bryce, yes, two ways to wealth, as I’ve pointed out in my recent lecture
[2012/02/14 16:08]  Zobeid Zuma: Bryce, that sounds more like an Ubiquitous Scarcity society.
[2012/02/14 16:08]  ArtCrash Exonar: If abundance creates security, we don’t need insurance. And we don’t need savings. And we don’t need to hoarde value.
[2012/02/14 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: Rhi, the replicator would almost certainly have limits artificially built into its replicating abilities.
[2012/02/14 16:09]  Elizabeth Spieler: I have had an abundance of mud pies all my life, I never run out of mud
[2012/02/14 16:09]  Bryce Galbraith: I like that phrase Zobeid — hadn’t heard that before 🙂 And yes, you’re right…. I would argue though that if people have very very little material wants, then you effectively have abundance.
[2012/02/14 16:09]  Zobeid Zuma: I guess the point I’m trying to hammer home here is that, even if all our wildest dreams of technology come through, some things are still limited. Like gold. And real estate.
[2012/02/14 16:09]  Khannea Suntzu: Interesting, the generational conflict between those born before abundance and the fucking ass spoiled brats born IN abundance. They’ld be labelling us scarcists, and constraint thinkers, and we be calling them Wasteful Frigging Ungrateful Brats.
[2012/02/14 16:09]  Zobeid Zuma: And geostationary orbit slots.
[2012/02/14 16:10]  Bryce Galbraith: lol! Khannea, I think you just sketched out what would be a very interesting story 😉
[2012/02/14 16:10]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, well…at first, but the next one that popped out of it would not. And before you say it, it can be hacked, so somebody will pop out one that’s unlimited
[2012/02/14 16:10]  ArtCrash Exonar: ha ha Khannea
[2012/02/14 16:10]  Zobeid Zuma: And there will still be big projects, and there will still be squabbles over who gets to run those projects.
[2012/02/14 16:10]  Bryce Galbraith: Yes. Politics will continue 🙂
[2012/02/14 16:11]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Implying they had done this many times before
[2012/02/14 16:11]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I read a story, Bryce, where these kids went on a spree in a post scarcity society, ended up dead, but the last one dropped them all back into a replicator–and they went on *the exact same spree* again.
[2012/02/14 16:11]  Khannea Suntzu: Rhi I come up with amazing story plots at a rate of 5gpph
[2012/02/14 16:11]  Khannea Suntzu: I never follow up on them. I am abundant in ideas and scarce in determination.
[2012/02/14 16:11]  Lem Skall: based on all we’re saying, is it possible that people will prevent this kind of abundance even artificially?
[2012/02/14 16:11]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Khannea, give them to me; I’ll give you credit as co author
[2012/02/14 16:11]  Bryce Galbraith: lol! Rhi 🙂 sounds interesting..
[2012/02/14 16:11]  ArtCrash Exonar: Thinking about this topic makes me realize how much of our lives is taken up with a quest for security. Abundance would solve much of that, but not all. Health and predation by others would still be with us…
[2012/02/14 16:12]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Lem, prevent it? Maybe at first. But the temptation will finally be too great
[2012/02/14 16:12]  Extropia DaSilva: Can it be hacked? You can hack software but it is another matter entirely to be able to change an integrated circuit. And molecular nanotech would be much more sophisticated so unless you have the facilities of intel’s R+D labs I doubt any hacker will be cracking limits built into the hardware of assemblers.
[2012/02/14 16:12]  Lem Skall: hah, obesity will be a problem
[2012/02/14 16:12]  Zobeid Zuma: Actually, security sounds to me like the “mostly solvable” part.
[2012/02/14 16:12]  Bryce Galbraith: Indeed ArtCrash… in fact some folks, deprived of the need to make a living, might find purpose in hunting other people for sport or something…
[2012/02/14 16:12]  ArtCrash Exonar: Security in the sense of not fearing the future is what I mean by that.
[2012/02/14 16:13]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, well, sure–if there’s a scarcity of talent. lol
[2012/02/14 16:13]  Khannea Suntzu: Yes art. In fact I am security traumatized. I had such an extremely insecure youth I can only function when I feel safe. Which, on account of welfare, I haven’t for 2 decades.
[2012/02/14 16:13]  Zobeid Zuma: Security in the sense of, “I don’t have to worry about ending up living in a van down by the river.”
[2012/02/14 16:13]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, we seem to be backing off from a world of abundance. It’s scaring us
[2012/02/14 16:13]  Lem Skall: wow, there should be a movie of post-apocalyptic abundance
[2012/02/14 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: Could I make an atomically identical copy of a Ming vase and if so what would that do for the value of antiques?
[2012/02/14 16:14]  Bryce Galbraith: Unless, of course, you wanted to live in a van by the river Zobeid … 🙂
[2012/02/14 16:14]  ArtCrash Exonar: So I guess another way to ask this question is what will people do with their lives when they don’t have to have jobs in order to survive?
[2012/02/14 16:14]  Khannea Suntzu: Originals will be so valuable. But evidence that an object is really what it is, will become very scarce.
[2012/02/14 16:14]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Art, well Max had an idea, and from I can tell, Gene Roddenbrrryh had the same idea
[2012/02/14 16:14]  Bryce Galbraith: Some folks may do fine ArtCrash… they’ll find they can focus on things they never had time for before. For others it will be very traumatizing…they’ll have to find a way to adjust.
[2012/02/14 16:14]  Zobeid Zuma: Surf the web, Art!
[2012/02/14 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: I think it does, Rhi. If we wanted to embrace a world of abundance, SL creatives would say ‘to hell with no copy and no transfer’ but in my experience these limits are nearly always turned ON!
[2012/02/14 16:15]  Khannea Suntzu: You walk in a dark forest with animated penis everywhere. You encounter 3d6 extropia’s.
[2012/02/14 16:15]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): What was it? In the morning, you would paint, afternoon, do science, then there would be writing.
[2012/02/14 16:15]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Everyone her own Leonardo
[2012/02/14 16:15]  ArtCrash Exonar: ha ha Zob! probably!
[2012/02/14 16:15]  Chraeloos: That would be pretty nice Rhia haha
[2012/02/14 16:15]  Khannea Suntzu: I wan’t my own tamed extropia!!
[2012/02/14 16:15]  Bryce Galbraith: That sounds like a good day to me Rhi!
[2012/02/14 16:15]  Khannea Suntzu: What if I can print out Rhiannons on a whim?
[2012/02/14 16:16]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Chrae, yeah, wouldn’ it?
[2012/02/14 16:16]  Khannea Suntzu: I’d so quit being a vegetarian.
[2012/02/14 16:16]  Zobeid Zuma: What if a lot of people just disappear into virtual worlds?
[2012/02/14 16:16]  ArtCrash Exonar: What they would do is all join virtual worlds as the first step to becoming one with the singularity! heh
[2012/02/14 16:16]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And that was Marxi’s idea, but he had a steampunk notion of how it would come about.
[2012/02/14 16:16]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): That’s why it’s taken this long. lol
[2012/02/14 16:16]  Extropia DaSilva: Khannea as soon as I am uploaded I will send you a duplicate. Just so long as I can write into the conract that her juciest memories are sent to the central Extie server so we can all enjoy them;)
[2012/02/14 16:16]  Elizabeth Spieler: women could freely have all the babies they wanted
[2012/02/14 16:16]  Khannea Suntzu: MHUR! The embassador hath great fun.
[2012/02/14 16:17]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): We are almost at the point in reality now for the true transition to communism. Capitalism will collapse at the Singularity, socialism will be the phase that guies us through it, and then–the Singularity (“communism”)
[2012/02/14 16:17]  Zobeid Zuma: That’s an amusing fantasy, Rhi.
[2012/02/14 16:17]  Bryce Galbraith: On the positive side, I think a post-scarcity world could free up a lot of talent to create very interesting works of art, literature, philosophical tracts, etc.
[2012/02/14 16:17]  ArtCrash Exonar: Elizabeth: It seems that abundance currently in the world makes people NOT want to reproduce. The higher the wealth, the fewer the offspring.
[2012/02/14 16:17]  Bryce Galbraith: And of course I’m sure a lot of folks would hang out on the beach, in a bar, etc. 🙂
[2012/02/14 16:17]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zoe, well, isn’t that what we’re talking about here? An amusing fanntasy
[2012/02/14 16:17]  Bryce Galbraith: and that.. provided they behave themselves otherwise… should be fine.
[2012/02/14 16:17]  Khannea Suntzu: Rhiannon don’t say things that make zobi vomit. She is sitting to close to me.
[2012/02/14 16:17]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): ACtually, if Popper is right, we’re in the socialist stage now.
[2012/02/14 16:18]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Khannea, get the other 499 of you to clean it up
[2012/02/14 16:18]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zoe and I would be on one of those islands mentioned in Brave New World, when the utopia happens
[2012/02/14 16:18]  ArtCrash Exonar: I would spend my time exploring the natural world. and yes, hanging out at the beach with an umbrella drink! haha
[2012/02/14 16:18]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I’d probably vomit too
[2012/02/14 16:18]  Extropia DaSilva: James Martin reckoned machine superintelligence would be used to run the stock exchange and make other financial decisions in order to make capitalists even richer than they are now.
[2012/02/14 16:18]  Zobeid Zuma: Will we be able to make more islands?
[2012/02/14 16:19]  Bryce Galbraith: once we have the age of abundance then we need the age of clinical immortality to go with it :0
[2012/02/14 16:19]  Bryce Galbraith: 🙂
[2012/02/14 16:19]  Elizabeth Spieler: Extropia that already happened in the banks bogus code
[2012/02/14 16:19]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zoe, well, there’s only the two of us. But I’d wanat room for Chrae, Rosalyn, Bryce. Maybe we’ll just homestead Hawaii. No one will be living there anyway. Tey’d all go to the new paradise–the Bronx
[2012/02/14 16:19]  Khannea Suntzu: In a universe with abundance I’d love space habitats.
[2012/02/14 16:19]  ArtCrash Exonar: Bryce: instead we will get the age of clinical Immorality! heh
[2012/02/14 16:19]  Khannea Suntzu: Privacy will become scarce.
[2012/02/14 16:20]  Bryce Galbraith: lol! Rhi 🙂
[2012/02/14 16:20]  Ivy Sunkiller: Ivy Sunkiller is going to poof early
[2012/02/14 16:20]  Elizabeth Spieler: lol rhi
[2012/02/14 16:20]  Ivy Sunkiller: see youse next week 🙂
[2012/02/14 16:20]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): ARt, well better than the present age of clincial immorality.
[2012/02/14 16:20]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): TC, Ivy
[2012/02/14 16:20]  Chraeloos: This is a fantastic idea Rhia
[2012/02/14 16:20]  Chraeloos: take care ivy!
[2012/02/14 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: Scarecity will become scarce:)
[2012/02/14 16:20]  Bryce Galbraith: Bye Ivy!
[2012/02/14 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh is Ivy going?
[2012/02/14 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: Bye bye!
[2012/02/14 16:20]  darcon Xue: Have a nice time Ivy love 🙂
[2012/02/14 16:20]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Yeah, she’s scarce these days
[2012/02/14 16:20]  Khannea Suntzu: I am so . incredibly. sick. with knowing. that I am going to miss all this fun. and going to die.
[2012/02/14 16:20]  Bryce Galbraith: 🙂
[2012/02/14 16:21]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Khannea, have your DNA prserved, then one of us will pop it into the replicator
[2012/02/14 16:21]  Ivy Sunkiller: Ivy Sunkiller waves and poofs
[2012/02/14 16:21]  Elizabeth Spieler: Khannea not really, we all die and then get born in a new body with a brand new memory bank to fill
[2012/02/14 16:21]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Of course, it won’t be your soul, but we wont’ know the difference
[2012/02/14 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: Never mind Khannea. There has to be one of you in the multiverse that survives through the singularity.
[2012/02/14 16:21]  darcon Xue: You always come back Kha love 🙂
[2012/02/14 16:21]  Khannea Suntzu: Khannea Suntzu rides her body against Rhiannon’s thighs. “there”
[2012/02/14 16:22]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Rhiannon of the Birds starts to vomit next to Zoe’s puddle due to the mention of communist utopia
[2012/02/14 16:22]  ArtCrash Exonar: Abundance won’t fix facing death, just make life easier. I’m thinking that people will want to make their mark and make their life mean something. So I guess lots of creativity and invention would be in the cards….. maybe?
[2012/02/14 16:22]  Bryce Galbraith: 🙂
[2012/02/14 16:22]  Chraeloos: Hey you two, watch it. lol
[2012/02/14 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: what is so bad about the communist utopia?
[2012/02/14 16:22]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Following up on Khani’s earlier point is all Extie
[2012/02/14 16:22]  Elizabeth Spieler: the only issue I see is quality control
[2012/02/14 16:23]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): As the communist utopia is our social network in a post scarcity world, nothing
[2012/02/14 16:23]  Khannea Suntzu: I think true abundance would be secessionism. That is pretty much the opposite on communism.
[2012/02/14 16:23]  Khannea Suntzu: Transhuman seperatism even.
[2012/02/14 16:23]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, complete successionism is a possibility, but we would still network, and as long as there was a voluntary network, that would be communism.
[2012/02/14 16:23]  ArtCrash Exonar: Googles successionism
[2012/02/14 16:23]  Bryce Galbraith: Wow, the age of abundance could draw forth a whole slew of social and political movements!
[2012/02/14 16:24]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): In Marx’s sense, not Lenin’w, nor Stalin’s, nor Mao’s. nor kim jung il’s
[2012/02/14 16:24]  Extropia DaSilva: Transhuman Seperatism. Oh, I am definitely all in favour of going wherever Rachel is going. Ohhhhhh yes.
[2012/02/14 16:24]  Khannea Suntzu: secession. from ‘to secede’
[2012/02/14 16:24]  ArtCrash Exonar: secessionism them… heh
[2012/02/14 16:24]  Zobeid Zuma: The South will Rise Again! Yeehaw!
[2012/02/14 16:24]  ArtCrash Exonar: I got lots of Baptist results with Successionism… haha
[2012/02/14 16:24]  Khannea Suntzu: Extropia, Michael anissimov, now we are on that topic, is on Google+ hangouts tomorrow.
[2012/02/14 16:25]  Bryce Galbraith: wow, interesting ArtCrash….
[2012/02/14 16:25]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zoe, and this time with all the weapons it needs–due to the replicator; it got defeated cuz of scarce resources…
[2012/02/14 16:25]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): That and Britain siding with the North
[2012/02/14 16:25]  Extropia DaSilva: I like to believe all them different versions of Rachel come about because science had the good sense to make Rachel the fiirst cloned human. Get your copy today!
[2012/02/14 16:25]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Oh, yeah, and lousy strategy
[2012/02/14 16:25]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And being outnumbered
[2012/02/14 16:25]  Extropia DaSilva: I pre-ordered 2.
[2012/02/14 16:25]  ArtCrash Exonar: Oh, by secessionism you mean Balkanization?
[2012/02/14 16:26]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extreme balkanization was what happened in Terrans Bearing Gifts
[2012/02/14 16:26]  Khannea Suntzu: Rachel is so sweet. I absolutely dote on her. Crazy but sweet. It was such fun seeing her bounce hysterical half naked on a hotel bed, while checking reddit.
[2012/02/14 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: what is that, Rhi?
[2012/02/14 16:26]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Leaving us vulnerable to civilizations that still had a political orgnization
[2012/02/14 16:26]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Exite, a short stor I mentioned long time ago at the beginning
[2012/02/14 16:26]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): of this discussion
[2012/02/14 16:27]  Extropia DaSilva: Wonder if Seren would dress up like her to indulge my roleplay fantasies?
[2012/02/14 16:27]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): We developed post scarcity tecchnology, our governments collapsed, but we were in a galaxy which had planets still with military dictgarships
[2012/02/14 16:27]  Extropia DaSilva: ‘here, put this blue wig on….’
[2012/02/14 16:27]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): So we go around giving tghem our technology, so they will collapse too
[2012/02/14 16:27]  Khannea Suntzu: oO
[2012/02/14 16:27]  Khannea Suntzu: Extropia I can introduce you to Rachel?
[2012/02/14 16:28]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Khani, who’s Rachel?
[2012/02/14 16:28]  Extropia DaSilva: The hottest female transhumanist of ALL TIME.
[2012/02/14 16:28]  Extropia DaSilva: No wait…that is me.
[2012/02/14 16:28]  Khannea Suntzu: Well *thanks* for nothing Extropia.
[2012/02/14 16:28]  ArtCrash Exonar: So which sci fi authors have dealt with the problems of abundance? And book recommends?
[2012/02/14 16:28]  Extropia DaSilva: Diamond Age, neal stephenson..
[2012/02/14 16:28]  Bryce Galbraith: great question ArtCrash!
[2012/02/14 16:29]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Art, well, Star Trek TNG; whoever wrote the story I keep mentioning; it’s in an old Analog
[2012/02/14 16:29]  Zobeid Zuma: Darn it, I can’t remember that one…..
[2012/02/14 16:29]  ArtCrash Exonar: Oh Diamond age was so dark
[2012/02/14 16:29]  ArtCrash Exonar: Still gives me chills
[2012/02/14 16:29]  Bryce Galbraith: Yeah, Diamond Age was a good read… probably my favorite Stephenson novel.
[2012/02/14 16:29]  Extropia DaSilva: Kiln People by..David Brin
[2012/02/14 16:29]  Khannea Suntzu: http://blog.khanneasuntzu.com/?p=2234
[2012/02/14 16:29]  ArtCrash Exonar: writes down stuff
[2012/02/14 16:30]  Zobeid Zuma: I’m trying to think of the one where people were forced to consume all day — until somebody figured out he could program his robots to consume for him!
[2012/02/14 16:30]  Bryce Galbraith: I think Iain M. Banks’ ‘Culture’ novels present a pretty interesting view of a society living in an era of abundance…
[2012/02/14 16:30]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Notice though how all of these come from one or two authors, who came up with the dieas
[2012/02/14 16:30]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Marx, Huxley, Capek
[2012/02/14 16:30]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And all the others are derivative
[2012/02/14 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: Accelerando by Charles Stross, talks about economics 2.0 a superior system that humans cannot understand, run by machine superintelligences..
[2012/02/14 16:31]  Khannea Suntzu: Yah, Very smart idea by charles.
[2012/02/14 16:31]  Elizabeth Spieler: it would take a trillion computers to equal one brain
[2012/02/14 16:31]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, we fixed that in 1989 with circuit breakers. lol
[2012/02/14 16:31]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): no, 1987
[2012/02/14 16:31]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Sorry
[2012/02/14 16:32]  Zobeid Zuma: Incidentally, that story I’m remembering was based on somebody inventing a fusion reactor. Theory being that if you have cheap and effectively limitless energy, everything else falls into place.
[2012/02/14 16:32]  Elizabeth Spieler: there is enough energy in one human body to power a city, we just have no way to tap into it as of yet
[2012/02/14 16:32]  ArtCrash Exonar: I wonder in an age of abundance how Nietzche’s ‘will to power’ fits into that world…..
[2012/02/14 16:32]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zoe, yes, in Star Trek, it was the “matter-antimatter” reactor that was the basis of replicators
[2012/02/14 16:33]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Art, well, maybe that is the “self improvement” that was the challenge in TNG; Nietzche was first and foremost talking self overcoming
[2012/02/14 16:33]  Extropia DaSilva: yes Elizabeth. The full wiring diagram of a mouse brain would need a hundred times more data than can be found on all of Google’s computers, and that is still four orders of magnitude less than the wiring diagram of the human brain.
[2012/02/14 16:33]  Elizabeth Spieler: in an age of abundance we wouldn’t have relationships
[2012/02/14 16:33]  Elizabeth Spieler: women would live without love
[2012/02/14 16:33]  Zobeid Zuma: I don’t think she meant computing power, I think she meant Orgone Energy. 😛
[2012/02/14 16:34]  Elizabeth Spieler: they would manipulate eachother for attention from men
[2012/02/14 16:34]  ArtCrash Exonar: Rhi: So once the overman is achieved there is no need for ‘will to power’?
[2012/02/14 16:34]  Extropia DaSilva: and with that bombshell, my time is up! (there you go, even in an age of abundance Thinkers time is a scarce commodity)
[2012/02/14 16:34]  Khannea Suntzu: Extropia
[2012/02/14 16:34]  Khannea Suntzu: Check your email
[2012/02/14 16:34]  ArtCrash Exonar: ha ha Elizabeth.
[2012/02/14 16:34]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Art, well, maybe. I’m not sure. There may be a will to power, only on the next level
[2012/02/14 16:34]  Extropia DaSilva: Next week is one for Siri fans…
[2012/02/14 16:34]  Extropia DaSilva: MY HAPPY APP: How much personality do we want from our devices?
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