Thinkers Jan 24 2012: THOUGHTS ABOUT THE MATURE WEB.

Scarp Godenot at Thinkers

Extropia DaSilva: Welcome to Thinkers! (you think that is dense, try SpinBitz by Joel Morrison)
[2012/01/24 15:31]  Lem Skall: try books by RAW
[2012/01/24 15:31]  Extropia DaSilva: Today we ponder…
[2012/01/24 15:31]  Scarp Godenot: You think that is dense, try Gravity’s Rainbow! haha
[2012/01/24 15:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: RAW?
[2012/01/24 15:31]  Extropia DaSilva: Sherry Turkle said, “just because we grew up with the Web, we think the Web is all grown up”. How does this belief influence our understanding of the present and the future?
[2012/01/24 15:31]  Lem Skall: Robert Anton Wilson
[2012/01/24 15:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. No, I cannot say I’ve ever read anything from him.
[2012/01/24 15:32]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh he of the jumpiong jesus phenomenon?
[2012/01/24 15:32]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): a gwon up net would require grown up inhabitants. that’s impossible 🙂
[2012/01/24 15:32]  Extropia DaSilva: *jumping
[2012/01/24 15:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm, That rings a bell…
[2012/01/24 15:32]  Sophiekittycat: hello cleo
[2012/01/24 15:32]  Lem Skall: who here has grown up with the web?
[2012/01/24 15:32]  Lem Skall: I didn’t
[2012/01/24 15:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not me…
[2012/01/24 15:32]  Ivy Sunkiller: my understanding is that I have higher understanding of the internet and how grown up it is than my government that wants to sign ACTA regardless massive protests
[2012/01/24 15:33]  Zobeid Zuma: Hi Rhi
[2012/01/24 15:33]  CLEOPATRA Xigalia: nope
[2012/01/24 15:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: In my youth, webs were things you brushed away from corners…
[2012/01/24 15:33]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): I did. can remember beeing in the network when there hasn’t been any web pages
[2012/01/24 15:33]  Chraeloos: I was a child when it emerged.
[2012/01/24 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: Me. I only exist thanks to the web. So do all of you, actually.
[2012/01/24 15:33]  Sophiekittycat: i have always know the wb i amjust 20
[2012/01/24 15:33]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi Zoe!
[2012/01/24 15:33]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): if this comes true http://www.technologyreview.com/web/39487/?p1=A3 will the web be more grown up? Hehehe
[2012/01/24 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: what is that, Lab?
[2012/01/24 15:33]  Lem Skall: what is the web anyway?
[2012/01/24 15:33]  William Hawksby: not me
[2012/01/24 15:34]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): also other predictive off people that they are working on
[2012/01/24 15:34]  William Hawksby: its still magic for me
[2012/01/24 15:34]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi aph!
[2012/01/24 15:34]  Scarp Godenot: Sophie, you had two whole years without the web! heh
[2012/01/24 15:34]  Chraeloos: Hi Rhia!
[2012/01/24 15:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyn said, “Just because we grew up with democracy, we think democracy is all grown up”. How does that belief influence our understanding of the present and the future?
[2012/01/24 15:34]  Lem Skall: hi Rhi
[2012/01/24 15:34]  Aph (aphrodite.macbain): Hi everyone
[2012/01/24 15:34]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I know there was like a time when there wasn’t an internet, but I don’t remember it
[2012/01/24 15:34]  Zobeid Zuma: The web is a disaster. It’s something hacked and bodged and bungled to very *poorly* perform a huge number of functions it was never meant for.
[2012/01/24 15:34]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): When did the Web start?
[2012/01/24 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: for our purposes the web is a general term for the Internet and all products/services it provides.
[2012/01/24 15:34]  Scarp Godenot: 1994
[2012/01/24 15:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: oh, so it’s like SL?
[2012/01/24 15:34]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): the “internet” as in “the web” I would call the idea of linking. The Links are forming the web
[2012/01/24 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: 1994
[2012/01/24 15:34]  Zobeid Zuma: I was thinking of LInux actually. 😛
[2012/01/24 15:35]  Scarp Godenot: But it really didn’t get going till ’95
[2012/01/24 15:35]  Sophiekittycat: the web is perhaps immature but me too then 🙂
[2012/01/24 15:35]  Aph (aphrodite.macbain): with the military
[2012/01/24 15:35]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I was 9; no wonder I just think it’s always been here
[2012/01/24 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Linux, hmm, I remember toying with it in 1992 or 1993, but it existed already for a couple of years or so
[2012/01/24 15:35]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/01/social-radar-sees-minds/
[2012/01/24 15:35]  Chraeloos: I was 8 when my family got our first computer
[2012/01/24 15:35]  William Hawksby: it started as an academic network didn’t it?
[2012/01/24 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wellllllllll
[2012/01/24 15:35]  Sophiekittycat: it is the web that is immature or people ? and immature how , for who standards or goals ?
[2012/01/24 15:35]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): The internet? No it started as a military network
[2012/01/24 15:35]  Scarp Godenot: The web came LONG after the internet
[2012/01/24 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: military network — implemented b y academics 😉
[2012/01/24 15:35]  Zobeid Zuma: Nobody starting today from a clean slate would design anything like it.
[2012/01/24 15:36]  Extropia DaSilva: I think so, yes. No Rhi, the Web
[2012/01/24 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: way, way long
[2012/01/24 15:36]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): The idea was that there would be a form of communication that even a nuclear attack won’t stop
[2012/01/24 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Internet: 1969. Web: 1994
[2012/01/24 15:36]  William Hawksby: i remember a series of bulletin boards and dial up sites
[2012/01/24 15:36]  Jennys Willful: they know better than that now
[2012/01/24 15:36]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): oh, the Web? I think some guy came up with it to tie together everything; not for any specific academci reason
[2012/01/24 15:36]  Zobeid Zuma: Oh, I remember bulletin boards. I was on FidoNet!
[2012/01/24 15:36]  Jennys Willful: if weather can take out great chunks of it, nukes will have no problem
[2012/01/24 15:36]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): there is IPv6 replacing IPv4 so there are still sorta “growing pains”
[2012/01/24 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: “chunks”, yes. The whole Internet, no.
[2012/01/24 15:36]  Lem Skall: I think the web is not mature yet, it will be matured when it will be regulated
[2012/01/24 15:36]  William Hawksby: the pictures were ascii – like gestures here
[2012/01/24 15:36]  Extropia DaSilva: some guy as in Tim Berners-Lee?
[2012/01/24 15:36]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, just takes two computers standing, so no, weather is a temp thing
[2012/01/24 15:36]  Scarp Godenot: Bulletin boards were by phone line modem computer to computer. Not internet.
[2012/01/24 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh that was nasty, Lem 🙂
[2012/01/24 15:36]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): The EMP will do it temporarily, though
[2012/01/24 15:37]  Lem Skall: lol
[2012/01/24 15:37]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Lem, wash you mouth out with soap
[2012/01/24 15:37]  Zobeid Zuma: Right. You could send mail over Fidonet, but it often took a week to get a reply back.
[2012/01/24 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Internet was also by phone line modem, computer to server… 😉
[2012/01/24 15:37]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): Lem’s definition of maturity equals mine of extinction
[2012/01/24 15:37]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi Broncks!
[2012/01/24 15:37]  William Hawksby: sinc3e i didnt grow up with it and thye entiure thuing is a miraqcle for me- I have every confidence it is in its childhood and great things are ahead
[2012/01/24 15:37]  Lem Skall: truth is though that it may be regulated some day and it probably will
[2012/01/24 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha luh!
[2012/01/24 15:37]  Broncks: hi 🙂
[2012/01/24 15:37]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): “Growing up sounds a whole lot like dying, and dying don’t sound like a whole lot of fun”
[2012/01/24 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *what* will you regulate about the WEB? It’s just a protocol
[2012/01/24 15:38]  Chraeloos: I think eventually, unfortunately, it will “need” to be.
[2012/01/24 15:38]  Scarp Godenot: Before web was USENET for threaded conversations….
[2012/01/24 15:38]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, you will regulate and make people have to pass codes around to by pass it
[2012/01/24 15:38]  William Hawksby: the ChyiComs regulate it pretty well-
[2012/01/24 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: ⁄sigh
[2012/01/24 15:38]  Broncks: why would it need to be regulated?
[2012/01/24 15:38]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Which might be a good idea; the more regulation, the less the government will know what will happen
[2012/01/24 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: But Lem made an interestng and relevant point. What would make the web mature, assuming it is not already?
[2012/01/24 15:38]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): oh, you can regulate Megaupload
[2012/01/24 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[2012/01/24 15:38]  Lem Skall: Gwyn, not the meaning I think we give to the word web
[2012/01/24 15:38]  William Hawksby: to keep evil thoughts out of thye impressionable minds of the proletariat
[2012/01/24 15:38]  Chraeloos: no, “need”. I don’t agree with it, but I think that eventually many people will think so. As all things come to an end.
[2012/01/24 15:39]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): It’s like gun control; nobody will know how many guns you have or whether you have them in places like NYC or London
[2012/01/24 15:39]  Sophiekittycat: what i not understand when you say internet is immature it is how immature ? what do you expect from ? a merchant web a controled web ? an anarchist web ? a web without nude girls or without people saying lol pawned ?
[2012/01/24 15:39]  Aph (aphrodite.macbain): I think of the Internet like the weather and just use it when and how I can
[2012/01/24 15:39]  Broncks: lol ok good then
[2012/01/24 15:39]  Jennys Willful: and what is mature?
[2012/01/24 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Web will be mature when it’s users are mature. 🙂
[2012/01/24 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is, never.
[2012/01/24 15:39]  Zobeid Zuma: The web was originally hypertext documents. That’s all. Wikipedia today is a lot like the original WWW vision.
[2012/01/24 15:39]  Jennys Willful: Lolcats are hardly mature but they;re still a highlight
[2012/01/24 15:39]  Sophiekittycat: proud to be immature, when i see most adults being mature is boring
[2012/01/24 15:39]  Zobeid Zuma: But we stopped creating new internet protocols and decided to just shoehorn all new functions into HTTP/WWW.
[2012/01/24 15:39]  Aph (aphrodite.macbain): what’s maturity got to do with it?
[2012/01/24 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Sophie, good point. I’d consider the Web mature when the whole experience is as smooth and predictable as driving a car.
[2012/01/24 15:39]  William Hawksby: there is technologivcal maturity and moral maturity – not the same thing as to the internet
[2012/01/24 15:40]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Is this chair for me, as I always stand in the cneter?
[2012/01/24 15:40]  Scarp Godenot: The web is still in its early stages in my opinion. It will become more ubiquitous through enhanced reality devices.
[2012/01/24 15:40]  Zobeid Zuma: The funniest part is the relentless quest to try and run *programs* in web browsers.
[2012/01/24 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: William: good point about moral maturity!
[2012/01/24 15:40]  Extropia DaSilva: sit or tand where you please, Rhi.
[2012/01/24 15:40]  Lem Skall: there is separation of the web between countries, for instance, videos are blocked for me because I am not in the US; regulation can actually bring more universal access
[2012/01/24 15:40]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): ty, Extie
[2012/01/24 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: the fad is stopping actually
[2012/01/24 15:40]  William Hawksby: im eager to see second life in thirty years or so- the tech should be amazing
[2012/01/24 15:40]  Sophiekittycat: all depend of what each of us expect or hate
[2012/01/24 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: William: YES! 🙂
[2012/01/24 15:41]  Zobeid Zuma: Really?
[2012/01/24 15:41]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): William, it will be indistnguisable from first life, can you spell “Tek” anyone?
[2012/01/24 15:41]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): Web = tool and the maturity of the user or content of users varies as the reflection of a real life society and all it’s age ranges
[2012/01/24 15:41]  Sophiekittycat: the net will never be mature as people will always change and it will always have an important fun and uncontrolled part
[2012/01/24 15:41]  Chraeloos: I like that Sophie
[2012/01/24 15:41]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes Lem, all countrie have some level of censorship (this sim is so laggy Sl cannot even process every letter my primay types, hence typos)
[2012/01/24 15:41]  William Hawksby: three dimension an Wii applied to SL
[2012/01/24 15:41]  Broncks: i hope so Sophie
[2012/01/24 15:42]  Lem Skall: Sophie it is much more controlled now than it used to be
[2012/01/24 15:42]  Scarp Godenot: Once SL type Virtual worlds start using 3d Headsets as standard tech, I think that might be the point at which VR will take off in a Web like way.
[2012/01/24 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (packetloss between 200-600% for me! eeek)
[2012/01/24 15:42]  Chraeloos: Caprica, anyone?
[2012/01/24 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lem is right. I mean, search engines now have maturity ratings!
[2012/01/24 15:42]  William Hawksby: who enforces that stuff?
[2012/01/24 15:42]  William Hawksby: and why?
[2012/01/24 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: That will not happen while we have an lag, Scarp. It would cause motion sickmess.
[2012/01/24 15:43]  Lem Skall: google does
[2012/01/24 15:43]  Sophiekittycat: maturity rating should be named age or sexuality rating not brain maturity rating
[2012/01/24 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: I like Caprica.
[2012/01/24 15:43]  Sophiekittycat: maturity in english means too much thinsg at same
[2012/01/24 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have my doubts about VR sets, Scarp. I think that you will have 3D like on TVs today — no glasses and headsets necessary. People are lazy when wearing those devices.
[2012/01/24 15:43]  Lem Skall: Caprica sucks
[2012/01/24 15:43]  Aph (aphrodite.macbain): what is Caprica?
[2012/01/24 15:43]  Chraeloos: I like the idea behind Capria.
[2012/01/24 15:43]  Chraeloos: *Caprica
[2012/01/24 15:43]  Scarp Godenot: States Flatly: 3d virtuality will be ubiquitous. But when? We don’t know. at that point, what we used to think of as the web will be historical.
[2012/01/24 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: Frack you, Lem!
[2012/01/24 15:43]  Chraeloos: BSG Prequel
[2012/01/24 15:43]  Broncks: a tv show
[2012/01/24 15:44]  Chraeloos: lol Extie
[2012/01/24 15:44]  Broncks: @ virtual blending with rl
[2012/01/24 15:44]  Lem Skall: sequel to BG
[2012/01/24 15:44]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): even DNS resolver offer censored access for families
[2012/01/24 15:44]  William Hawksby: it will be a good substitute for time travel and space travel- all thye fun without getting your feet muddy
[2012/01/24 15:44]  Lem Skall: the word “sequel” says it: it sucks
[2012/01/24 15:44]  Chraeloos: prequel, actually
[2012/01/24 15:44]  Lem Skall: prequel, even worse
[2012/01/24 15:45]  Lem Skall: made after, anyway
[2012/01/24 15:45]  Chraeloos: lol
[2012/01/24 15:45]  Extropia DaSilva: Scarp, Sony hav some decent 3D specs fo the PlayStation3 but unfortumaely they have no accelerometer so do nout update the feed when you turn your head.
[2012/01/24 15:45]  Lem Skall: trying to milk it as much as possible, only based on the previous success
[2012/01/24 15:45]  Scarp Godenot: interesting, Extie
[2012/01/24 15:45]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): interesting observation about that behavior change while wearing headsets
[2012/01/24 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, at least we have agreed on something: the Web, being 2D, is boring. Right?
[2012/01/24 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or are we in SL for too long to think that way? hehe
[2012/01/24 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: But to make VR immersive it is far more important to ave a vibrant community than to be surrounded by pretty graphics.
[2012/01/24 15:46]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): no, not necessarily
[2012/01/24 15:46]  Scarp Godenot: Let’s not forget that todays technology will seem quite primitive in ten years.
[2012/01/24 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: SL seems primitive now.
[2012/01/24 15:46]  Lem Skall: does maturity mean anything unless it is part of a cycle that means death? what if there is no death, is there a mature stage then?
[2012/01/24 15:47]  William Hawksby: whispers: if it was three-D and interavtive would I have to get out of my comfy chair
[2012/01/24 15:47]  William Hawksby: ?
[2012/01/24 15:47]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): I assume the two spaces 2D/3D will glue together, like 3D parts inside a flat ebspace
[2012/01/24 15:47]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): ^webpage
[2012/01/24 15:47]  Scarp Godenot: But SL today is so much more advanced than it was in 2003, no?
[2012/01/24 15:47]  Lem Skall: can we not bring it about to SL, for once?
[2012/01/24 15:47]  Extropia DaSilva: No william. The tech reads your mind so you do not have to move physically, just will an acttion.
[2012/01/24 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that with “Maturity” is mostly meant things like “reliability”, for example
[2012/01/24 15:48]  William Hawksby: whispers: cool can i eat cookies too
[2012/01/24 15:48]  William Hawksby: ??
[2012/01/24 15:48]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): hmm Will, the ‘comfy chair’ defines the consumer market. maybe technology doesnt really develop there
[2012/01/24 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: wb Zo
[2012/01/24 15:48]  Lem Skall: Gwyn, “stability” more likely
[2012/01/24 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes… stability
[2012/01/24 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: helo Prax
[2012/01/24 15:48]  Zobeid Zuma: Back on Firestorm. If I’m gonna crash anyhow, I might as well crash with a viewer I like.
[2012/01/24 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, William, like Extie says …— there are already mind-reading devices in the market for playing games
[2012/01/24 15:48]  Lem Skall: but stability also means stagnation
[2012/01/24 15:48]  William Hawksby: actually onhe of those Matrix boxes looks good
[2012/01/24 15:48]  Prax (praxisfield): hi Exti – greetings all
[2012/01/24 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: They are even sold on normal department stores as ‘novelties’
[2012/01/24 15:48]  Chraeloos: Hi Prax
[2012/01/24 15:48]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): I’m still waiting to see the 1200X1200 DPI or better for HMD for artist and gamers and scientist’s. That way we can create even nicer things than the lower quality and also enjoy them.
[2012/01/24 15:49]  Scarp Godenot: I wish I could remember the exact term for HUDs in your glasses that provide information of the real world as you move around in RL. Expanded reality? What is the term?
[2012/01/24 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: What would we want from a mature web, anyway?
[2012/01/24 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lem: really…. cars and mobile phones are stable, and they haven’t ‘stagnated’
[2012/01/24 15:49]  Lem Skall: augmented reality
[2012/01/24 15:49]  Aph (aphrodite.macbain): expanded
[2012/01/24 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: AU Augmented Reality
[2012/01/24 15:49]  Scarp Godenot: Thanks Lem, yes Augmented reality.
[2012/01/24 15:49]  William Hawksby: last time i heard it was virtual reality but i guess thats expanded a bit
[2012/01/24 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: You cna use mobile phones for AU, don’t need glasses
[2012/01/24 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: BTw there is a decemt free AU app forthe iphone called Aurasma.
[2012/01/24 15:49]  Aph (aphrodite.macbain): it’s no longer virtuous
[2012/01/24 15:50]  Vashta Nerada (aeon.static): ha
[2012/01/24 15:50]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): mobile phones could get hologram long distance calls. like seen in Star Wars
[2012/01/24 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Virtual reality includes augmented reality and synthetic worlds (e.g. SL)
[2012/01/24 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and games etc
[2012/01/24 15:50]  Scarp Godenot: Google will of course control the world at that point.
[2012/01/24 15:50]  William Hawksby: i dont keep up : )
[2012/01/24 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: “aurasma” is a terrible name lol
[2012/01/24 15:50]  Scarp Godenot: aurgasm
[2012/01/24 15:50]  Chraeloos: google practically DOES control the world
[2012/01/24 15:50]  Lem Skall: aur-ass-ma
[2012/01/24 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Scarp: you mean they don’t do it today? No wait… they share the world with Facebook, I forgot .)
[2012/01/24 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: scarp: my thoughts exactly.
[2012/01/24 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes Gwyn. That is why I hope when I say I only exist online wpeople wil rexpgnize that someday ‘only’ will b meaningless.
[2012/01/24 15:51]  LessWrong: It controls connectivity; content realization seems separate architecturally
[2012/01/24 15:51]  Scarp Godenot: And twitter, who just yesterday enabled a type of threaded conversation…..
[2012/01/24 15:51]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Another kind of maturity is commercial maturity; when there is rising opportunity costs to enter the market, a set of companies dominating it, and new and wierd products to stimulate demand, as the market is saturated.
[2012/01/24 15:51]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Does any of that fit virtual worlds?
[2012/01/24 15:51]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): there is actually a p2p based search engine. that could easily blow away Google, the need for centralized search engines
[2012/01/24 15:51]  Lem Skall: hey, there is Aurasma Lite for ipad
[2012/01/24 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: yes Lem. Prettu easy to use, too
[2012/01/24 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: *pretty
[2012/01/24 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: good point. Are we there yet on the Web? Most of the “novel ideas” tend to disappear quickly after the venture capital behind those new ideas gets burned
[2012/01/24 15:52]  Scarp Godenot: Google will rule because they are the people who are tying RL mapping into all information technologies.
[2012/01/24 15:52]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): some ideas just need free code, no capital at all
[2012/01/24 15:52]  William Hawksby: people have a short attention span for new enet experienjces
[2012/01/24 15:52]  Lem Skall: mmmm, Extie, why did you think of mentioning that to me?
[2012/01/24 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: free code = someone free to write it 😉
[2012/01/24 15:52]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And that kind of maturity is not necessarily a bad thing, but it does show that the “new” thing is readily a part of our lives
[2012/01/24 15:53]  LessWrong: Unless there is a privacy revolution. . .which is quite possible
[2012/01/24 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, William, some “net experiences” like Amazon.com, eBay…. or even SL…. have been around for over a decade 😉
[2012/01/24 15:53]  Chraeloos: Likely, at this point, Less
[2012/01/24 15:53]  Extropia DaSilva: Google I know everything FB I know everyone Electricity ‘keep talkin’ bitches!’.
[2012/01/24 15:53]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyth, yes, and that’s why (one of the reasons) that internet regulation will fail if it gets excessive
[2012/01/24 15:53]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): actually Google, technicall is not centralized. it’s a swarm of several machines tied together
[2012/01/24 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or a lack-of-privacy revolution? 😛 BTW, seems that Google+ is reverting their anti-pseudonym policies
[2012/01/24 15:53]  William Hawksby: yes- i do0nt consider them a new experience- just a store on the net
[2012/01/24 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: luh: about 450.000 — and that’s just Gmail
[2012/01/24 15:54]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): there are surely more user machines than those 450K
[2012/01/24 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: William: they used to be “new experiences” when they were launched. “Shopping on the net? ABSURD!”
[2012/01/24 15:54]  LessWrong: The battle over ubiquity is still being waged; however, the weapontry for content are clearly being lined up on the battlefield
[2012/01/24 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: luh: yes, for Google Search there are probably more 😀
[2012/01/24 15:55]  William Hawksby: yes- i guess the unique alwauys becomes the norm – like radio, telephone etc
[2012/01/24 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ WIlliam
[2012/01/24 15:55]  Thriller Dancer: Say ‘on’ or ‘off’to turn me on or off, or ‘help’ for more commands
[2012/01/24 15:55]  Extropia DaSilva: Ahhh you have as much chance of Linden Lab cancelling your Sl account as you have of Googl cancelling your G+ but for some reason we mke Google out as having some kind of vendetta against Nyms.
[2012/01/24 15:55]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I find it hard to believe anyone thought shopping on the net was absurd. But I guess it’s like “Man will never fly.”
[2012/01/24 15:55]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Orbiting laboratories and military apparatus? Absurd!
[2012/01/24 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: that’s because, AFAIK, LL did never cancel any account “at whim”; while Google+ did it all the time.
[2012/01/24 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi:; you should have seen the discussions on USENET in the mid-1990s 🙂
[2012/01/24 15:56]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): it’s an abuse of ppower, that Nym war
[2012/01/24 15:56]  Extropia DaSilva: I have had friends whose SL accounts were cancelled.
[2012/01/24 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I remember, uh, logging in to an “online library” which sold books… using TELNET
[2012/01/24 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: at whim? Or because they misbehaved?
[2012/01/24 15:56]  William Hawksby: i used to call Sears and order out of the catalog- is that any different from Amazon?
[2012/01/24 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: William, no. It isn’t. But people thought it was.
[2012/01/24 15:57]  Extropia DaSilva: Because somebody accused themof bing underage.
[2012/01/24 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And were they, Extie?
[2012/01/24 15:57]  Extropia DaSilva: How should I know?
[2012/01/24 15:57]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi Amand!
[2012/01/24 15:57]  Zobeid Zuma: I got my first computers out of the Sears catalog. 🙂
[2012/01/24 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: See? So perhaps LL was right 🙂
[2012/01/24 15:57]  Scarp Godenot: Telnet was the standard for libraries for quite some time.
[2012/01/24 15:57]  Amandeep Timeless: howdee
[2012/01/24 15:57]  LessWrong: We are not in the age of meta data. . .and still in the infancy of dis-intermediation
[2012/01/24 15:57]  Extropia DaSilva: *shrugs*
[2012/01/24 15:57]  Extropia DaSilva: what does that mean, Less?
[2012/01/24 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Scarp, but it was a novelty for me in 1992 🙂
[2012/01/24 15:58]  Amandeep Timeless: intermediaries disappearing
[2012/01/24 15:58]  William Hawksby: i approve of disintermediation
[2012/01/24 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Some will, Amand, others will become Internet Consultants 😉
[2012/01/24 15:58]  Amandeep Timeless: direct contact between sourcer and sourcee
[2012/01/24 15:58]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): That sounds like someone helping people negotiate whether to unbury Uncle Charlie
[2012/01/24 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: I think not. We will need more intermediaries to manage the glut of infor,ation we accumulat in the years ahed.
[2012/01/24 15:59]  LessWrong: The goal of ubiquity has ben largely realized; meta data has been developing but it still very immature
[2012/01/24 15:59]  Zobeid Zuma: Just ask Siri!
[2012/01/24 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I actually agree, Extie…
[2012/01/24 15:59]  William Hawksby: to manage info is to conttrol it
[2012/01/24 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol yes, Zo
[2012/01/24 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: Gwyn agrees. Now I know my opinion is correct.
[2012/01/24 15:59]  LessWrong: That is not to say that there is not an abundance of it out there
[2012/01/24 16:00]  Scarp Godenot: Crashing…..
[2012/01/24 16:00]  Extropia DaSilva: :)) *blws kissat Gwyn*
[2012/01/24 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s the fallacy of authority, Extie 😀
[2012/01/24 16:00]  LessWrong: But from a semantic perspective, it is so abundant it is almost meaningless
[2012/01/24 16:00]  Prax (praxisfield): me to crahsi
[2012/01/24 16:00]  LessWrong: Google is god because google descibes what the meta data means today
[2012/01/24 16:00]  Amandeep Timeless: tweet of the day, hosts (ala Bill Maher’s “Overtime”, submittd questions directed to powerbrokers)
[2012/01/24 16:01]  Extropia DaSilva: I know Lem woul rather we not discuss it but…does Sl figure in the mature web in any way?
[2012/01/24 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn types something to fight lag
[2012/01/24 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Works!
[2012/01/24 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What’s wrong with this sim anyway??
[2012/01/24 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, in the same way that Toyata figures into the mature auto industry
[2012/01/24 16:02]  Zobeid Zuma: Well, OBviously SL needs to run in a browser window. :/
[2012/01/24 16:02]  Extropia DaSilva: what way is that?
[2012/01/24 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Forget the Web! When will SL become Mature?
[2012/01/24 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Answer: when the sim owner changes the settings
[2012/01/24 16:02]  Amandeep Timeless: i apologize for the RAV4, we didn;t knwo what we were doing!!!!
[2012/01/24 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[2012/01/24 16:02]  William Hawksby: how will we know when it becomes mature?
[2012/01/24 16:02]  LessWrong: We’ll be in the age of meta data, in my opinion, when we have our content aggregation and inference engines
[2012/01/24 16:03]  LessWrong: Sorry, our own
[2012/01/24 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like that, inference engines. AI to the rescue?
[2012/01/24 16:03]  Lem Skall: I think SL is an indication of web immaturity
[2012/01/24 16:03]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, it’s heading there, what with differently rated sims, education occuring here; I’m running a business here that is beginning to make mer real (if small) profit.
[2012/01/24 16:03]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I’d say it’s well on it’s way to maturity, if it hasn’t gotten there
[2012/01/24 16:03]  William Hawksby: i have no idea what andinference engine is-
[2012/01/24 16:03]  Aph (aphrodite.macbain): why Lem?
[2012/01/24 16:03]  Zobeid Zuma: Web immaturity or web maldesign? Or both?
[2012/01/24 16:03]  LessWrong: Today search actually filter more than search
[2012/01/24 16:03]  Extropia DaSilva: It will be mature when the tch is invisible. Like switching on a light. You give it no thought because it always works. It just gets out of your way and les yo do wha you intended. That is mature tech.
[2012/01/24 16:04]  Amandeep Timeless: is the telephone mature yet?
[2012/01/24 16:04]  Aph (aphrodite.macbain): what does a mature web look like if it’s always changing?
[2012/01/24 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yay Rhi, I’m so glad to hear that! I should interview you!
[2012/01/24 16:04]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): do we have a definition of maturity
[2012/01/24 16:04]  Aph (aphrodite.macbain): right
[2012/01/24 16:04]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes the phone is mature.
[2012/01/24 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aph: why shoiuld “maturity” mean “immutability”??
[2012/01/24 16:04]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I’d like that, Gwyn. Let’s set up a time
[2012/01/24 16:04]  Amandeep Timeless: is television mature yet?
[2012/01/24 16:04]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes we do.
[2012/01/24 16:04]  Aph (aphrodite.macbain): I didn’t say they were the same
[2012/01/24 16:04]  LessWrong: Television is obsolete
[2012/01/24 16:04]  Amandeep Timeless: are printed books mature yet?
[2012/01/24 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, TV is stable and reliable
[2012/01/24 16:04]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): television is dead. that might count
[2012/01/24 16:05]  William Hawksby: ha- phones are gettin g more and more complex every day – so is tv
[2012/01/24 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Less: most people in the world would disagree 😀
[2012/01/24 16:05]  Amandeep Timeless: video display screens
[2012/01/24 16:05]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Amand, printed books are a passing fad. Mark my words!
[2012/01/24 16:05]  Aph (aphrodite.macbain): but the web renews itself and becomes young again, reinventing itself constantly. It is cyclical not linear
[2012/01/24 16:05]  William Hawksby: \maybe when tv phone and net are all combined
[2012/01/24 16:05]  Chraeloos: Which is very unfortunate, Rhia
[2012/01/24 16:05]  Extropia DaSilva: The phone is mature because you just pick it up and use it and it hardly eve lets you down. Unlike Sl where every time you login you expect it to crash.
[2012/01/24 16:05]  Amandeep Timeless: did they ever mature before they passed away?
[2012/01/24 16:05]  Chraeloos: they are William
[2012/01/24 16:06]  William Hawksby: i cant put kindle books o0n my coffee table to impress visitors
[2012/01/24 16:06]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): darn, if neither books nor television or phones will ever die, nor cars … will we for ever and always stick with ancient technology !?
[2012/01/24 16:06]  LessWrong: If you look at Googles “conversation” metaphore, it seems an attempt to grab search preferences from current reality as expressed in the constant stream of ever changing meta data.
[2012/01/24 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with Extie. TV, phone, cars are all mature technologies.
[2012/01/24 16:06]  Aph (aphrodite.macbain): Maybe a mature phone is not a disposable one but lasts for a long time
[2012/01/24 16:06]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): luh, well, there’s even a market still for buggy whips.
[2012/01/24 16:06]  Zobeid Zuma: Why am I constantly pulling 100+ KB/s in this sim, even after textures appear to be loaded?
[2012/01/24 16:06]  Extropia DaSilva: what is metadata?
[2012/01/24 16:06]  Amandeep Timeless: if you had 5 or 6 kindels it might
[2012/01/24 16:06]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): it should constantly grow for a while paralleling humans and technology as it evolves a bit more. But what it says about this http://www.sirifunny.com/ and maturity I’m not sure. 😉
[2012/01/24 16:06]  William Hawksby: in 65- the princess phone was “mature”
[2012/01/24 16:06]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, I think when it comes to phones, you have to give them greater responsibility every year; it is the only way they will be responsible adults
[2012/01/24 16:07]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Or wait, is that teenagers?
[2012/01/24 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: metadata = information about data
[2012/01/24 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: kk
[2012/01/24 16:07]  LessWrong: The current inference that the “web is about what is current” is relevent to a consumer based web but not necessarily and an enlightenment web
[2012/01/24 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: I’m pulling 675Kbps and have no diea why!
[2012/01/24 16:07]  William Hawksby: pretty swoon your phone will be living in your basement
[2012/01/24 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *idea
[2012/01/24 16:07]  Amandeep Timeless: horse daw carriages are hard on horse if on pavements
[2012/01/24 16:07]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): prolly a virus fetching it’s payload via this Sim 😛
[2012/01/24 16:07]  LessWrong: In essence, the web as packaged today is about immediate history
[2012/01/24 16:07]  Conover’s Flight-Helper 6.3.3 (WEAR ME!): Flight-helper is ready and operational.
[2012/01/24 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the same doesn’t happen on the Web, Rhi, right? The question is, why not?
[2012/01/24 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, we have mobile phones since 1980…
[2012/01/24 16:08]  Aph (aphrodite.macbain): it to my profile 🙂
[2012/01/24 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So is it just a question of time?
[2012/01/24 16:08]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): oh dont call them bricks ‘mobile’
[2012/01/24 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or regulation, like Lem suggested?
[2012/01/24 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Luh: “portable” 🙂
[2012/01/24 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, I think the web is too all encompassing for it to be “mature,” until it gets seamless, like Extie says
[2012/01/24 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: The mobile phone made one rite of passage obsolete. Used to be, kids faced tha day when they would be able to go into town unsupervised by parents, but now they remain tethered via the phone.
[2012/01/24 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): There will always be zones of ommaturity on the web
[2012/01/24 16:08]  Lem Skall: glad to see that I am seen as a proponent of regulation
[2012/01/24 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: true, it’s 1984 all over again 😀
[2012/01/24 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lem: hehehehe
[2012/01/24 16:09]  William Hawksby: i think the development of info-and comm- tech is eventually to be limited by reachinhg a poi8nt where we have enough info at a fasty enough rate
[2012/01/24 16:09]  Extropia DaSilva: Big Mumma is watching you.
[2012/01/24 16:09]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): It’s the whip and chains you have Lem.
[2012/01/24 16:09]  Chraeloos: lol
[2012/01/24 16:09]  Extropia DaSilva: He does? 🙂
[2012/01/24 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I was trying to think why TV, cars and mobile phones are mature, while the Web isn’t. What do they have in common that the Web doesn’t have?
[2012/01/24 16:09]  LessWrong: When we control the aggregation priorities the web will move beyond trends and friends and into something much greater. . .perhaps something predictive and creative
[2012/01/24 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Predictive and creative?
[2012/01/24 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aren’t those antonyms somehow?
[2012/01/24 16:10]  William Hawksby: i dopnt know what an aggregation priority is ei9ther
[2012/01/24 16:10]  Amandeep Timeless: “Little Brother” cell phone cams
[2012/01/24 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t know either….
[2012/01/24 16:10]  Extropia DaSilva: If you define a mature tech as one that works much more than t fails..well the web has NEVER failed.
[2012/01/24 16:10]  LessWrong: I don’t think so. . .Right now you get what is trending and friending
[2012/01/24 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Depends on “fail”
[2012/01/24 16:11]  William Hawksby: can it fail?
[2012/01/24 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Web as a whole… no, since it relies on the Internet, which is designed to “never fail” globally
[2012/01/24 16:11]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, I think that tracking of teenagers is a good thing. HOw else are they going to figure a way around it? And with increased State spying on people, we all have to learn that
[2012/01/24 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But individual sites, sure
[2012/01/24 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: My computer might go down, and my ISP might go down but the Web keeps on runnikng.
[2012/01/24 16:11]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): they have in common, well nobody has anymore ideas left (or illusions!) regarding TV. The web on the other side, still shoes development
[2012/01/24 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: They fail all the time 🙂
[2012/01/24 16:11]  LessWrong: The web is being muddled . . .dumbed down
[2012/01/24 16:11]  Zobeid Zuma: TV has changed quite a bit actually, and still has a few changes coming.
[2012/01/24 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: How so, Less?
[2012/01/24 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: how so, Lesswrong?
[2012/01/24 16:12]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Rhiannon of the Birds blinks at Less
[2012/01/24 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Me first! LOL
[2012/01/24 16:12]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): dumbed? well … some cozy places like Facebook
[2012/01/24 16:12]  William Hawksby: they figured in the 1920s that everything had been invented
[2012/01/24 16:12]  LessWrong: Centralized predictive seraching based upon association
[2012/01/24 16:12]  Extropia DaSilva: FB is not dumb.
[2012/01/24 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Simple-to-use websites like Facebook have existed since at least 1996 with the launch of FriendFinder…
[2012/01/24 16:12]  LessWrong: Google used to sumarize it as “you are what you search”
[2012/01/24 16:12]  Thriller Dancer: Say ‘on’ or ‘off’to turn me on or off, or ‘help’ for more commands
[2012/01/24 16:12]  Lem Skall: actually I think that web maturity depends more on the unification of regulations across the world
[2012/01/24 16:12]  Vashta Nerada (aeon.static): i’m not sure the web is being dumbed down, so much as there is greater access now
[2012/01/24 16:12]  Amandeep Timeless: distilled bells and whistles, and most faults filtered away
[2012/01/24 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: I fear corporations spying on us more than government…. who are, by definition, incompetent 😀
[2012/01/24 16:13]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): actually we think of “the web” as beeing … the very same, everywhere. Inside China, too?
[2012/01/24 16:13]  William Hawksby: ive always gffound facebook to be about as interesting as AOL Chaqt was in 96
[2012/01/24 16:13]  Aph (aphrodite.macbain): More people are participating hence there is greater diversity and scale
[2012/01/24 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t understand why Less thinks the Web is “dumbed down”, really
[2012/01/24 16:13]  Scarp Godenot: back
[2012/01/24 16:13]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, either way, I think it’s a good thing that a whole generation will have to figure out how to ditch the spies.
[2012/01/24 16:13]  LessWrong: By “dumb down,” I mean designed to return results consistent with our biases as expressed in the meta data we use to search
[2012/01/24 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: Is there anything apart from regulations and reliable tech that define the ‘mature’ web?
[2012/01/24 16:13]  Vashta Nerada (aeon.static): yes@aph
[2012/01/24 16:13]  Aph (aphrodite.macbain): you should read some of the scholarly stuff…
[2012/01/24 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Less: you’re talking about Google searches?
[2012/01/24 16:14]  Scarp Godenot: Yes, Less that is a new disturbing trend
[2012/01/24 16:14]  Aph (aphrodite.macbain): Aph smile sa t Vashta
[2012/01/24 16:14]  William Hawksby: well- google charges for good placement dont they?
[2012/01/24 16:14]  William Hawksby: how accurate can that be?
[2012/01/24 16:14]  LessWrong: i am talking about consumer based searching, roughly trends and friends
[2012/01/24 16:14]  Lem Skall: Extie, what about general access to the web, the vast majority of the world population still doesn’t have access to the web
[2012/01/24 16:15]  Scarp Godenot: I have already been thwarted by that in things I’m looking for.
[2012/01/24 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: But I want Google to be biased to my preferences. Life is too short by many ordrs of magnitude to spend time on all of the web.
[2012/01/24 16:15]  William Hawksby: or phones
[2012/01/24 16:15]  LessWrong: Pew has good research on the polarization
[2012/01/24 16:15]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): I’m more fearing about the “thumb down” approach inside countries that can’t hold up with our standards
[2012/01/24 16:15]  Amandeep Timeless: search engine “insipid algorithms”
[2012/01/24 16:15]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): So by “dumbed down,” you mean search engines that reflect what people actually want to know, Less?
[2012/01/24 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Let me see if I understand you, Less. So you’re saying is that people rely upon their friends to look for content, and since one’s friends are dumb, globally the Web is getting dumber? 🙂
[2012/01/24 16:15]  Aph (aphrodite.macbain): Perhaps the more you input into google the more your preferences will be met
[2012/01/24 16:15]  Vashta Nerada (aeon.static): pew has the best research out there regarding web use
[2012/01/24 16:15]  William Hawksby: maybe those people who dont have access to0 the web dont need it
[2012/01/24 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: yes they do.
[2012/01/24 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aph: that’s certainly the case if you are logged in to Google and/or use consistently the same computer + web browser.
[2012/01/24 16:15]  William Hawksby: is a Kazakh farmer going to order from amazon?
[2012/01/24 16:15]  LessWrong: No, Gwyn. . . searching harmonizes what is popular
[2012/01/24 16:15]  Lem Skall: what does my search say if I don’t have any friends?
[2012/01/24 16:15]  Scarp Godenot: Dumbed down, means that your results will be filtered through your previously searched prejudices.
[2012/01/24 16:16]  LessWrong: the results are much narrower than the vast sea of information
[2012/01/24 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH!
[2012/01/24 16:16]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): perhaps the term “dumb” is offensive. let’s say … “less surprising” if you roam inside your cozy filtered recognition sphere
[2012/01/24 16:16]  Vashta Nerada (aeon.static): which doesn’t seem dumbed down to me at all
[2012/01/24 16:16]  Lem Skall: everyone needs access to the web
[2012/01/24 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that’s simple, do NOT use Google and their algorithms.
[2012/01/24 16:16]  Extropia DaSilva: right, Lem
[2012/01/24 16:16]  William Hawksby: or agree to their version of relevance
[2012/01/24 16:16]  William Hawksby: isnt that the i9nhtermediary you wanted?
[2012/01/24 16:16]  Lem Skall: the web is a unifier, it’s like saying that people don’t need unification
[2012/01/24 16:17]  Amandeep Timeless: search engine “herd minding”
[2012/01/24 16:17]  William Hawksby: someo0ne to separate all the chaff from the infpo relevant to oyu?
[2012/01/24 16:17]  Scarp Godenot: Example of dumbing down. Say you read right wing blogs a lot and search for ‘economics’. You will get mostly searches of right wing political opinions of economics.
[2012/01/24 16:17]  LessWrong: My argument was the next generation of searching will do self-aggregation (I suspected) based upon what we tune for
[2012/01/24 16:17]  Extropia DaSilva: But Google always find what I m searching for, so why should I notuse their service?
[2012/01/24 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So some years ago, we craved for “intelligent agents” to get us *exactly* the information we wanted from the Web. Now Google is giving us exactly that, and we think that teh Web is being “dumbed down”? 😀
[2012/01/24 16:17]  Vashta Nerada (aeon.static): i would tend to agree, if social networking hadn’t become such a huge driving force
[2012/01/24 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The more intelligent the agents are, the more dumbed down is the Web.
[2012/01/24 16:18]  Amandeep Timeless: if we look up “lemming”, we mostly get “cliff”
[2012/01/24 16:18]  LessWrong: In other words, the ubiquity will shift from friends and trends to something more
[2012/01/24 16:18]  Scarp Godenot: We want accurate searches, not searches that appeal to our prejudices…..
[2012/01/24 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What would an “accurate” search be? 😀
[2012/01/24 16:18]  William Hawksby: dumbed down seems l;ike such an e3litist perspective
[2012/01/24 16:18]  Lem Skall: Gwyn, you assume we DON’T want to be dumbed down but we do, we are lazy
[2012/01/24 16:18]  Aph (aphrodite.macbain): Aph grins at Amandeep
[2012/01/24 16:18]  Zobeid Zuma: I was going to say something like that if I hadn’t crashed, Gwyn. 🙂
[2012/01/24 16:18]  Vashta Nerada (aeon.static): since when has information-seeking been laissez faire?
[2012/01/24 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not assuming, Lem! I *am* lazy 🙂 SO hooray for a Google that gives me what I want! hehe
[2012/01/24 16:18]  Extropia DaSilva: But we define accuracy as ‘that which fits my prejidice’:)
[2012/01/24 16:18]  William Hawksby: lots of people find the searches by Google very helpfu- does that make them dumb?l?.
[2012/01/24 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, how to you devise a test for “accuracy”?
[2012/01/24 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And YES, Extie, exactly!
[2012/01/24 16:19]  Vashta Nerada (aeon.static): information seeking is almost always purposive
[2012/01/24 16:19]  Scarp Godenot: Much of the dumbing down right now is focused on regionalism. Searches result in regional results in an era of greater globalization.
[2012/01/24 16:19]  Extropia DaSilva: Of course we ike to belive it is everybody else who is prejudiced..but no.
[2012/01/24 16:20]  Aph (aphrodite.macbain): dubing down could also be read as attempting to become accessible
[2012/01/24 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I would define “maturity” for a search engine as “giving predictable results to my tastes” 😉
[2012/01/24 16:20]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): no “opt out”. there should be a Google option for doing a search traditionally, without any glance at former search terms
[2012/01/24 16:20]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): so who is the thought police/sensors and what gets censored? Or judge the maturity of the individuals. http://www.banned-books.com/bblista-i.html what is blocked in what part’s/blocks of the web http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/24/occupy-blocked-in-china-j_n_1028863.html?ir=World
[2012/01/24 16:20]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, I need to log; am Skyping a student in about 10 minutes
[2012/01/24 16:20]  LessWrong: Comfirmation bias is central to intellectual manipulation; I think there is a serious element of dumbing, yes
[2012/01/24 16:20]  Scarp Godenot: Many of those who are writing about this new trend refer to it as ‘keeping oneself in The Bubble” , that is the bubble of what you already know .
[2012/01/24 16:20]  LessWrong: Agreed, Scarp
[2012/01/24 16:20]  Lem Skall: cy Rhi
[2012/01/24 16:20]  Chraeloos: Bye Rhia 🙂
[2012/01/24 16:21]  LessWrong: And a very dangerous bubble it can be
[2012/01/24 16:21]  Amandeep Timeless: what if my prejudice is demonstrable numbers by which other can determine their own conclusions? we mght find ourselves in concurrence throu no preconceptions
[2012/01/24 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh, bye Rhi!
[2012/01/24 16:21]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): sometimes, I just want to search like the other people. getting the results they will get, and not the ones for me
[2012/01/24 16:21]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): or my taste
[2012/01/24 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[2012/01/24 16:21]  Zobeid Zuma: Making somebody sort through a zillion blue links to find what they want is “smart” how?
[2012/01/24 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is where philosophy and politics meet consumer demand 😀
[2012/01/24 16:22]  Vashta Nerada (aeon.static): i believe that people who choose to stay in the bubble, will probably do that anyway
[2012/01/24 16:22]  Scarp Godenot: This is where cynical corporate mentality meets information.
[2012/01/24 16:22]  William Hawksby: bye all – RL calls
[2012/01/24 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. like TV, which only shows programmes tailored for the lkeast common denominator — sex, violence, sneaking into other people’s lives 😉
[2012/01/24 16:22]  Lem Skall: I for one, I want to get only straight porn when I look for porn
[2012/01/24 16:22]  Chraeloos: bye William
[2012/01/24 16:22]  Vashta Nerada (aeon.static): hahaha
[2012/01/24 16:22]  LessWrong: My point, Gwyn. . .if the web just evolves along the line of the order taker in a dis-information game, it will eventually have marginal utility
[2012/01/24 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: Wikipedia has button for a random page. It is sometimesfun to use that and read about whatever comes up. Maye Goglecould have a random search that is not biased by your filter in any way?
[2012/01/24 16:22]  Amandeep Timeless: be a bubble burster!!!!
[2012/01/24 16:22]  Scarp Godenot: Yes, but what you get Lem is girls that want to have sex with you in your town!
[2012/01/24 16:23]  Lem Skall: oh, Scarp, someone who knows ;P
[2012/01/24 16:23]  Scarp Godenot: haha
[2012/01/24 16:23]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): LOL
[2012/01/24 16:23]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): people who prefere the Bubble … are free to do so, I don’t mind. Pity, perhaps
[2012/01/24 16:23]  Vashta Nerada (aeon.static): lol
[2012/01/24 16:23]  Zobeid Zuma: Google has the “I’m Feeling Lucky” button!
[2012/01/24 16:23]  Scarp Godenot: I know ‘most’ people know…. heh
[2012/01/24 16:23]  LessWrong: luh when people rely more and more on the web for news, it is pretty scary
[2012/01/24 16:23]  Chraeloos: it takes you to the first page though, which is usually wikipedia?
[2012/01/24 16:23]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes but that just gives ou th top search from your filtered selection.
[2012/01/24 16:24]  LessWrong: espeically when the weather says “sunny” 24×7
[2012/01/24 16:24]  Chraeloos: Right, Extie
[2012/01/24 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Google has the “I’m feeling lucky” button….
[2012/01/24 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: dang sorry Zo
[2012/01/24 16:24]  Zobeid Zuma: wow, google is acting weird now
[2012/01/24 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s the new privacy policy! 😀
[2012/01/24 16:25]  Vashta Nerada (aeon.static): whomever recommended Aurasma: damn you. i’ll never get anything done, now…lol
[2012/01/24 16:25]  Amandeep Timeless: the best stuff is around page 10 or later
[2012/01/24 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Vashta
[2012/01/24 16:25]  Vashta Nerada (aeon.static): been playing with it the whole time
[2012/01/24 16:25]  Lem Skall: I did one aura too
[2012/01/24 16:25]  Extropia DaSilva: I think the random searcj woul be like search engines in the old days when ‘Cure Cancer’ would bring up something from a person who likes the 80s pop group The Cure and whose starsign is cancer. I think we would soon want the filtered, personlised search back.
[2012/01/24 16:25]  Lem Skall: interesting but I won’t be addicted to that
[2012/01/24 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I agree with you, Less. At some point, we embraced the Web to get us information we couldn’t get from TV, newspapers, etc. Now it seems to be the other way round: too much noise, no information on the Web
[2012/01/24 16:26]  Scarp Godenot: I wish the search engine had a button to say. Global search, no preferences referred to….
[2012/01/24 16:26]  Zobeid Zuma: Yeah, Extie… I want search to be *better* at figuring out what I’m looking for.
[2012/01/24 16:26]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): its about choice. freedom of choice
[2012/01/24 16:26]  LessWrong: Randomization is not the antidote to what I am proposing; in my vision you could customize the data that is aggregated
[2012/01/24 16:26]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): you want both options
[2012/01/24 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo & Extie: what Google is providing now was what we hoped for in the late 1990s with “intelligent agents”
[2012/01/24 16:26]  Vashta Nerada (aeon.static): @scarp- how would they organize the info, then? what parameters would need to be in place to prevent random non-info
[2012/01/24 16:27]  Scarp Godenot: Nobody hoped for this type of targeted marketing.
[2012/01/24 16:27]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): Ai blundered
[2012/01/24 16:27]  Zobeid Zuma: Of course, I think the MAIN irritant with Google is trying to find some sort of review or opinion about a product instead of 5000 pages that are trying to sell it to me.
[2012/01/24 16:27]  Lem Skall: maybe some day you may choose to get the search results of someone else, maybe templates or based on friends or famous people
[2012/01/24 16:27]  Extropia DaSilva: I want predictive searching. Google knows I am stuck for information and provides what Ineed before I am even conscious of needing it.
[2012/01/24 16:27]  Extropia DaSilva: It would make quiz shows a bit boring.
[2012/01/24 16:27]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): oh rite, whatever you are searching for … there is a place where to buy just that
[2012/01/24 16:27]  Scarp Godenot: I DON’T want predictive searching. I want to have searching that refers ONLY to my search parameters.
[2012/01/24 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: They ALMOSt do that now., Extie… you type a few letters, Google will guess the rest of your query
[2012/01/24 16:28]  LessWrong: Agreed Extropia. . .I have been advocating predictive here but not homogenized
[2012/01/24 16:28]  Amandeep Timeless: Less….see and adjust your metadata ‘scorecard’?
[2012/01/24 16:28]  Zobeid Zuma: Zobeid Zuma points –> http://www.randomwebsite.com/
[2012/01/24 16:28]  Vashta Nerada (aeon.static): by no homogenized, then notorganized by popularity?
[2012/01/24 16:28]  LessWrong: Perhaps weightings would be the best @Aman
[2012/01/24 16:28]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): scorecard disclosure as a new form of blackmail 😀
[2012/01/24 16:29]  Extropia DaSilva: OK scarp but say you were doing some art in Sl and instead of having to move the mouse or type a hotkey, SL just brings up whetever you need as soon as you need it?
[2012/01/24 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Scarp: there is a problem there. What if your search parameters are not ‘good’ enough for the kind of search you wish to do? I mean, see Extie’s example about trying to search for “Cure to cancer”, a decade ago… and we just had 1% (or was it 0.1%?) of gthe online information we have today….
[2012/01/24 16:29]  LessWrong: if the source of the popularity is an ad sale in a micro information market, I’ll pass
[2012/01/24 16:29]  Scarp Godenot: I am politically liberal, but I DON”T WANT to only hear echo chamber ideas in my searches. This is what is happening now. And it is polarizing the culture badly.
[2012/01/24 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Stop using Google 🙂
[2012/01/24 16:29]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): no, change Google
[2012/01/24 16:30]  Scarp Godenot: Bing and Yahoo are both doing the same thing Gwyn
[2012/01/24 16:30]  Zobeid Zuma: Holy cats, I think I’m in love with that random website thing! 😀
[2012/01/24 16:30]  Vashta Nerada (aeon.static): i wouldn’t blame that on google
[2012/01/24 16:30]  LessWrong: @ Scarp. Yes. . . without a disclaimer.
[2012/01/24 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, create your own search engine… lol
[2012/01/24 16:30]  Vashta Nerada (aeon.static): (the partisan thing- not the ads)
[2012/01/24 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: there are plenty in Russia too
[2012/01/24 16:30]  Scarp Godenot: yes, live under a rock, that is the solution!
[2012/01/24 16:30]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): a decentralized one, of course
[2012/01/24 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2012/01/24 16:30]  Zobeid Zuma: On my second click I got “http://crashandburncartel.com/” Talk about a mystery…
[2012/01/24 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: Google does what t is supposed to do. Maybe the fault is with ourselves? We balkanised the web, not Google.
[2012/01/24 16:30]  LessWrong: I see that as the next generation of the web. . . the gist of this discussion
[2012/01/24 16:31]  LessWrong: that is the essence of the meta data evolution
[2012/01/24 16:31]  Vashta Nerada (aeon.static): lol@ ‘balkanised’
[2012/01/24 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think not. I find it very hard to launch a model that does NOT personalise searches
[2012/01/24 16:31]  Scarp Godenot: Google is doing what they are doing in order to maximize their profits. Is that what they are ‘supposed’ to do/
[2012/01/24 16:31]  Scarp Godenot: ?
[2012/01/24 16:31]  luh (luisa.bourgoin): luh snatches away that random danger thingy from Zob before she lands somewhere … anywhere
[2012/01/24 16:31]  Extropia DaSilva: well my time is almost up. Any last comments?
[2012/01/24 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: How do you manage a search engine with half a million servers for free? 🙂
[2012/01/24 16:32]  Vashta Nerada (aeon.static): i’d blame cable news tv for the balkanisation
[2012/01/24 16:32]  Scarp Godenot: Nobody said free, did they?
[2012/01/24 16:32]  Zobeid Zuma: They have a fiduciary responsibility!
[2012/01/24 16:32]  Scarp Godenot: We just want accuracy.
[2012/01/24 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, as soon as you+re selling ads, you will do personalised searches….
[2012/01/24 16:32]  Scarp Godenot: We don’t want ‘cooked’ results.
[2012/01/24 16:32]  Zobeid Zuma: One might wonder whether the govt should operate some internet services.
[2012/01/24 16:32]  Lem Skall: we want regulation
[2012/01/24 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But “accuracy” is a subjective experience.
[2012/01/24 16:32]  Extropia DaSilva: OK my time is up!
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