THINKERS NOV 29 2011: FAME AS AN SL ARTIST

Extropia DaSilva: Welcome to Thinkers!
[2011/11/29 15:31]  Khannea Suntzu: The Thing 2011 prequel is a seamless mesh with the sequel.
[2011/11/29 15:31]  Zobeid Zuma: They should have made a movie adaptation of At The Mountains of Madness.
[2011/11/29 15:31]  Khannea Suntzu: Jay the stuf before the poem. Lets get going.
[2011/11/29 15:31]  Extropia DaSilva: what is the topic? uhh…
[2011/11/29 15:31]  Extropia DaSilva: FAME AS AN SL ARTIST: Bettina Tizzy of “Not Possible In Real Life’ says it is not possible to make it big as an SL artist unless you credit your work with your 1st life name as well as your SL pseudonym. Is she correct?
[2011/11/29 15:31]  Khannea Suntzu: They cancelled it, Zobeid.
[2011/11/29 15:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (There is a game for it though, Zo!)
[2011/11/29 15:32]  Zobeid Zuma: We don’t need no steenkin topic! 😛
[2011/11/29 15:32]  Zobeid Zuma: Or do we?
[2011/11/29 15:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
[2011/11/29 15:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: This topic is actually fun!
[2011/11/29 15:32]  Zobeid Zuma: Hii Artcrash!
[2011/11/29 15:32]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): What type of fame and what type of artist is part of that equation
[2011/11/29 15:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yay, Art has certainly an opinion on the topic for today!
[2011/11/29 15:32]  ArtCrash Exonar: dahhhhlinnks!
[2011/11/29 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: hello Art:)
[2011/11/29 15:33]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): Hello Art
[2011/11/29 15:33]  Zobeid Zuma: First question: Is it possible to make it big as an SL artist?
[2011/11/29 15:33]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): Yes life is art also
[2011/11/29 15:33]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): I believe it so in the music
[2011/11/29 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: well like Lab said, define ‘big’?
[2011/11/29 15:33]  ArtCrash Exonar: As there isn’t much money in art here, I would say no.
[2011/11/29 15:34]  Zobeid Zuma: How about that lady with the 1000 Avatars project?
[2011/11/29 15:34]  Zobeid Zuma: Did she make it big?
[2011/11/29 15:34]  Zobeid Zuma: She did get a RL book published based on that, I think?
[2011/11/29 15:34]  ArtCrash Exonar: Gracie? She is a friend of mine and just squeaks by. She is making money with a book she just did, but not a whole lot.
[2011/11/29 15:34]  Zobeid Zuma: Ahhh….
[2011/11/29 15:35]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): is money, fame, scope,impact, or what defines big?
[2011/11/29 15:35]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think there are a couple of artists that are getting a bit of press outside of sl. Number one is Bryn Oh
[2011/11/29 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Depends, you can not be big in RL, but you can be big in Japan… I mean, in Sl 🙂
[2011/11/29 15:35]  Zobeid Zuma: Of course, making things you can sell in SL is also art….
[2011/11/29 15:35]  Zobeid Zuma: Functional art.
[2011/11/29 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mostly kitsch
[2011/11/29 15:35]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): LOL Gwyn 😉
[2011/11/29 15:36]  Extropia DaSilva: I have an aquaintance called Shoshana Epsilon, She makes covers illustrations for sci fi and fantasy books using Sl photoshoots and has had her work exhibited in sci fi conventions. But so far as I know her work is exhibited exclusively under her SL name.
[2011/11/29 15:36]  ArtCrash Exonar: very interesting
[2011/11/29 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I actually don’t think that a HUGE artist in SL becomes a HUGE artist in RL; but that’s just because of size really
[2011/11/29 15:36]  Zobeid Zuma: Oh that’s cool Extie!
[2011/11/29 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, how many of you know HUGE artists from my home town, Lisbon? Not even I can name three or four names…
[2011/11/29 15:36]  Khannea Suntzu: Khannea Suntzu loses interest in this topic, as she is totally too unambitious, mentally unhinged and lazy to ever be famous.
[2011/11/29 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: So you could branch out beyond SL and still keep your psuedonym.
[2011/11/29 15:37]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think Huge artist is defined by making large amounts of money with their art. So none of that here… haha.
[2011/11/29 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nevertheless, I’m sure that the artistic community around here in RL knows their names.
[2011/11/29 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, true, Art
[2011/11/29 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But if it’s about fame,
[2011/11/29 15:37]  Zobeid Zuma: SL can be a fun and useful graphical/artistic tool. But as for whether it’s respectable, that’s another question.
[2011/11/29 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: then it also means, “how big is big”?
[2011/11/29 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you need, uh… an audience of a billion people to be “famous”
[2011/11/29 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: you won’t get it in SL.
[2011/11/29 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But if an audience of a million is enough… then yes, sure
[2011/11/29 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: How about we define big as a name we are likely to have heard of. You know like I have heard of Amee Weber or Anshe Chung or Bryn Oh or Hamlet Au, only one of whom is an artist but you get my point:)
[2011/11/29 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ther are a *few* SL billionnaires — meaning they make millions of USD 😉
[2011/11/29 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, Extie
[2011/11/29 15:38]  ArtCrash Exonar: I sometimes wonder how SL ‘famous’ art avatars are, because outside of the art community itself, I don’t think the names are known much at all with the exception of a couple of names.
[2011/11/29 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the point really.
[2011/11/29 15:38]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): Now to help twist it for you. Big enough can also count for some in love. So in those cases it’s just the other.
[2011/11/29 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Art.,
[2011/11/29 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the same happens in local RL communities too!
[2011/11/29 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (as I mentioned before)
[2011/11/29 15:39]  Extropia DaSilva: But I think Betina is arguing for fame IN Sl, not fame out there in the world.
[2011/11/29 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you’d ask me, “who’s the biggest artist in Lisbon right now?” I would have absolutely no clue.
[2011/11/29 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s what I read, Extie,
[2011/11/29 15:39]  Extropia DaSilva: ask google. IT knows
[2011/11/29 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I completely disagree with her,
[2011/11/29 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: even if I know her name and her fame lol
[2011/11/29 15:40]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): its all on perception of how big and who or what group.
[2011/11/29 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Lab
[2011/11/29 15:40]  Extropia DaSilva: on what basis do you form your disagreement?
[2011/11/29 15:40]  Zobeid Zuma: I have enormous cynicism towards the whole art scene anyhow.
[2011/11/29 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Factual evidence 🙂
[2011/11/29 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know definitely a hundred names in SL,
[2011/11/29 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: which may be known by at least a few dozens of thousands of people,
[2011/11/29 15:40]  ArtCrash Exonar: Why do you have cynicism of the art scene in general?
[2011/11/29 15:41]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): I thnk Sl can only be a rebouncing board for more exposure in any medium, be it art ,or business.
[2011/11/29 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and almost none of them used their Rl credentials to became ‘known’ in SL
[2011/11/29 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not even Filthy Fluno…
[2011/11/29 15:41]  Extropia DaSilva: Art how successful do you rate yourself?
[2011/11/29 15:41]  ArtCrash Exonar: My alt is well known in the art community, but myself not so much! haha
[2011/11/29 15:41]  Zobeid Zuma: Because so much of it seems driven by fad and fashion, and out of touch with the sensibilities of normal non-art-scene folks.
[2011/11/29 15:42]  Extropia DaSilva: My sister has a painting by Filthy Fluno hanging on her wall.
[2011/11/29 15:42]  Extropia DaSilva: He painted it just for her.
[2011/11/29 15:42]  ArtCrash Exonar: Filthy Fluno, aka Jeffrey Lipsky is marketing his stuff on facebook as well as in SL.
[2011/11/29 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Now* he is.
[2011/11/29 15:43]  ArtCrash Exonar: But Filthy’s stuff is mostly not SL specific work.
[2011/11/29 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2011/11/29 15:43]  Zobeid Zuma: The pretentiousness. I’m immediately turned off by art that’s self-consciously “artsy”.
[2011/11/29 15:43]  Ivy Sunkiller: heyo Vio
[2011/11/29 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: well is it fairly obvious that if you promote work both here AND out there on the wider Web, you will get more attention than someone who just promotes inworld?
[2011/11/29 15:43]  Zobeid Zuma: Violet, hii!
[2011/11/29 15:44]  ArtCrash Exonar: A guy like MadCow Cosmos can make money in SL with commisions for building things for companies in SL.
[2011/11/29 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That should be obvious, yes.
[2011/11/29 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But is the Web “the real world”‘ 😉
[2011/11/29 15:44]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi Ivy, everyone 🙂
[2011/11/29 15:44]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): Hi Violet
[2011/11/29 15:44]  ArtCrash Exonar: Some SL artists are applying for RL grants to make SL art and some are getting them.
[2011/11/29 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: My argument is just that like any country, city, community etc. has its own share of websites and Facebook pages and what not,
[2011/11/29 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: so does SL.
[2011/11/29 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: the same applies to academics too 😉 They get grants to work in SL
[2011/11/29 15:45]  Zobeid Zuma: Best art I ever saw in SL was created by hacker/griefer types, playing around with scripts and stuff, having fun and pleasing nobody but themselves.
[2011/11/29 15:45]  ArtCrash Exonar: Most SL ers don’t buy art outside of show openings and the sales there are not very big.
[2011/11/29 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, if I understand the topic, Zo, this is more about “fame” than about “defining what art is and what it isn’t” 😉
[2011/11/29 15:46]  Zobeid Zuma: Right….
[2011/11/29 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And what is your experience about art sold in RL? ㋡
[2011/11/29 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (that was to Art)
[2011/11/29 15:46]  Zobeid Zuma: I guess I’m just skeptical about the goal. :/
[2011/11/29 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: I would also point out the obvious fact that while I have a very modest reputation as a writer of transhuman-themed essays, my primary has no reputation as a writer even though ve actually writes everything published by me. so depending on who ‘you’ is, you can argue a psuedonymous person is both famous AND unknown!
[2011/11/29 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because the little experience my acquaintances have, it’s the same thing… you have art collectors, and spontaneous buyers who just buy on openings.
[2011/11/29 15:46]  Khannea Suntzu: Yah well
[2011/11/29 15:47]  Khannea Suntzu: Is Youitube ‘art’ ?
[2011/11/29 15:47]  Zobeid Zuma: Oh, Extie….. Did you read my transhumanist story? With ponies. Transponyist story, I guess. 🙂
[2011/11/29 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: the delights of SL, it breaks the old paradox of fame/anonymity
[2011/11/29 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, but you have artists in YouTube
[2011/11/29 15:47]  ArtCrash Exonar: It is impossible to sell SL art in RL. because it needs a 3d environment to be seen….. That said: MOST of the longer term SL artists are RL artists themselves who well their RL works but that is all in different mediums such as photography and painting and glass art etc.
[2011/11/29 15:47]  Extropia DaSilva: Ultimate Dog tease is! And Animusic! Watch Animusic’s musical balls video on YouTube, it is great!
[2011/11/29 15:48]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): if god was a dj would he make art? To put it a funny way, and would he have to pay right’s when he/she mixes?
[2011/11/29 15:48]  Khannea Suntzu: I prefer saladfingers
[2011/11/29 15:48]  Zobeid Zuma: Oooh, I like glass art.
[2011/11/29 15:48]  Zobeid Zuma: One of the few forms of abstract art that I can get into.
[2011/11/29 15:49]  Khannea Suntzu: Machinima looks like to have a great future
[2011/11/29 15:49]  ArtCrash Exonar: I believe most artists to who 3D immersive or interactive art in SL, came here not knowing about that art form and switched over to it because of its possibilities.
[2011/11/29 15:49]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): yes lets hope so 🙂
[2011/11/29 15:49]  ArtCrash Exonar: do
[2011/11/29 15:50]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): Has anyone ever seen wizzy gynoid?
[2011/11/29 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: Does what Pixar do count as MAchinima? It is all done in computer, after all?
[2011/11/29 15:50]  ArtCrash Exonar: Glyph Graves for example was a photographer.
[2011/11/29 15:50]  ArtCrash Exonar: Bryn Oh, was an oil painter
[2011/11/29 15:50]  ArtCrash Exonar: Scarp Godenot is also a photographer
[2011/11/29 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: not according to the running definition of machinima, which includes “being done from inside a virtual world”
[2011/11/29 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: Ohh..OK
[2011/11/29 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: So like Red Versus Blue which is done with Halo multiplayer maps?
[2011/11/29 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 😀
[2011/11/29 15:51]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): She is known for Geometrical art forms,and I have always enjoy them
[2011/11/29 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s the process that counts, not the technology, Extie — a machinima is directed like a normal movie, while what Pixar does uses a completely different process 🙂
[2011/11/29 15:52]  ArtCrash Exonar: SL 3D art viewed in a 3d environment is a NEW art form. So those here are stretching its boundaries now.
[2011/11/29 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: THat is funny btw, if you get the in jokes. ‘I have the flag! I have lived as few dare to dream!’
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/wizzy_gynoid/4202448283/sizes/o/in/set-72157622717751913/
[2011/11/29 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: you raised an interesting point — genuine SL art cannot be viewed outside SL. That’s actually quite interesting to think about.
[2011/11/29 15:52]  Zobeid Zuma: yeahhhh
[2011/11/29 15:52]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): Nice pic melody Ty for sharing
[2011/11/29 15:53]  Khannea Suntzu: On a totally different note, I am so Happy that Poland has now become the biggest defender of the new Euro union
[2011/11/29 15:53]  Khannea Suntzu: Poland wants to be part of the Euro
[2011/11/29 15:53]  ArtCrash Exonar: Well, I would say not outside of SL, but outside of a Virtual World environment.
[2011/11/29 15:53]  Khannea Suntzu: who would habe thought
[2011/11/29 15:53]  Extropia DaSilva: I wonder what difference it made to Botgirl, revealing her creator’s identity?
[2011/11/29 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (crazy Poles! But they have a good ehart)
[2011/11/29 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *heart even
[2011/11/29 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: yes. Sorry. You know, I’m so sceptic about any other VW environment that I tend to remember that those still exist hehe
[2011/11/29 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: Seems it made scant difference to HIS celebrity, seeing as I cannot even recall the guy’s name. Anyone know?
[2011/11/29 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t remember Botgirl’s RL name, no lol
[2011/11/29 15:54]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think Botgirl, who is also a friend revealed her RL identity in order to more freely discuss gender issues, as that is what she is now doing exclusively now.
[2011/11/29 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s curious hmm
[2011/11/29 15:55]  ArtCrash Exonar: Gender and identity issues I should say
[2011/11/29 15:55]  Extropia DaSilva: Botgirl does not have a real name because Botgirl is not a psuedonym. She is a character.
[2011/11/29 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why didn’t she just used another identity to discuss that? 🙂
[2011/11/29 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Extie — how do you know? 😉
[2011/11/29 15:56]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): Good question
[2011/11/29 15:56]  ArtCrash Exonar: Botgirl has a whole web multi platform thing going on and it would just get too complicated to separate it all I think…..
[2011/11/29 15:56]  Extropia DaSilva: I should say Botgirl’s name IS Botgirl. YOu know, like Bart is Bart and not Nancy even if the actress for him is called Nancy
[2011/11/29 15:57]  Extropia DaSilva: Remember Scope Cleaver? What happened to him?
[2011/11/29 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh now that is a GOOD question, Extie!
[2011/11/29 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Canadian Revenue System finally caught up with him? heheheheheheheheeh
[2011/11/29 15:58]  Extropia DaSilva: Last I heard of him was some speaker on Copper Robot claiming Scarp was ruining his chances of success by keepingt his primary’s name secret.
[2011/11/29 15:58]  Extropia DaSilva: sorry, Scope!
[2011/11/29 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: You mean Scope.
[2011/11/29 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right
[2011/11/29 15:58]  Extropia DaSilva: Always get them mixed up!
[2011/11/29 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, he did complain a bit about that, yes
[2011/11/29 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that was eons ago
[2011/11/29 15:58]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2011/11/29 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I can certainly say that I have the totally opposite view lol
[2011/11/29 15:59]  ArtCrash Exonar: As an artist, I have no problem with having my virtual name hooked up with my RL name, but having that virtual name attached to the art.
[2011/11/29 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: what do you mean, Gwyn?
[2011/11/29 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ha. It’s hard to explain!
[2011/11/29 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And it *will* sound presumptuous…
[2011/11/29 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (even correctly spelled)
[2011/11/29 16:00]  Extropia DaSilva: I presumed it would…
[2011/11/29 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Basically, it’s a theory of mine.
[2011/11/29 16:00]  ArtCrash Exonar: There are a TON of non RL name artists in the art world these days. I made a large list for someone of them recently…..
[2011/11/29 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you need credentials from an external source,
[2011/11/29 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: to somehow validate what you do,
[2011/11/29 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: than that means you’re not that good at doing what you’re doing 🙂
[2011/11/29 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. lack of self-esteem
[2011/11/29 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If, however, the quality of your work is in the work itself,
[2011/11/29 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: you don’t need credentials.
[2011/11/29 16:01]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): To the point of fame. That is more of a cascade effect and the passing of information or media or knowledge. Various social groupings making there judgments as it flows threw the social fabric. Artist or any other field, and each with there own set’s of perception.
[2011/11/29 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: See, that’s actually a very American thing to say 😉
[2011/11/29 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[2011/11/29 16:01]  ArtCrash Exonar: Credentials from an external source is how the art world works, Gwyn…. unfortunately.
[2011/11/29 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps! I’m no expert in art 🙂
[2011/11/29 16:02]  Zobeid Zuma: And that’s why I’m cynical about the art workd.
[2011/11/29 16:02]  ArtCrash Exonar: Your paper credits are MORE important than your artwork.
[2011/11/29 16:02]  Zobeid Zuma: world, even
[2011/11/29 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: … and around here in my country, sponsors and patrons count FAR more than credentials.
[2011/11/29 16:02]  Extropia DaSilva: Well I dunno. I could maintain my own blog and say I am a writer. But I felt more like one once H+ magazine published my articles and would feel even more like one if a book or someting was published, authored by me.
[2011/11/29 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which, uh, shows why I have no idea about the art scene around here hehe
[2011/11/29 16:02]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): I think is where you go depends on your Paper Creds to your Artwork
[2011/11/29 16:03]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think the reason for this is because people need reassurance and don’t trust their own tastes, so it is a piling on phenomenon that makes one famous.
[2011/11/29 16:03]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): This is global village.and the rukes are subject to change
[2011/11/29 16:03]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): rules*
[2011/11/29 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie, you’re a good example. Who cares about what your primary does or doesn’t do; your articles are accepted at H+ because of the content, not your PhD
[2011/11/29 16:03]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): You should write a book then Extropia and just don’t cram to do it all at once
[2011/11/29 16:04]  Zobeid Zuma: I trust my own taste. And studies show that eccentrics are the happiest people, because they don’t care what anybody else thinks. 😀
[2011/11/29 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, writing is an art form too 😉
[2011/11/29 16:04]  ArtCrash Exonar: In the RL art world, a one person show at say the Whitney Museum will make you famous regardless of what your work is like.
[2011/11/29 16:04]  ArtCrash Exonar: Or the Tate in England
[2011/11/29 16:04]  Extropia DaSilva: Ahh no use, times change so fast these days by the time my book came out it would be obsolete!
[2011/11/29 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Art ㋡
[2011/11/29 16:05]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): I have trouble with that statement.. Everyone cares a little about what people think, Zo
[2011/11/29 16:06]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Write about obsolesence :p
[2011/11/29 16:06]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): Nice Violet P 😉
[2011/11/29 16:07]  ArtCrash Exonar: Regarding the beginning quote from Bettina Tizzy, she once was the source for SL art information, but hasn’t been since early 2009. She moved on away from SL…
[2011/11/29 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: I did have an idea about writing a book that explains how people like me never get published. Then, if I am published I can say I am an author (yay!) if not I can say I was proved right (yay!).
[2011/11/29 16:07]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): 🙂
[2011/11/29 16:07]  Zobeid Zuma: That’s so meta, Extie.
[2011/11/29 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: Postmodernist to the end, that is me.
[2011/11/29 16:08]  ArtCrash Exonar: There was a person who took a bunch of SL artists to a major display in the China worlds fair last year. btw.
[2011/11/29 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: oh? Who?
[2011/11/29 16:08]  ArtCrash Exonar: The Open This End group founder.
[2011/11/29 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: oh.
[2011/11/29 16:09]  ArtCrash Exonar: Let me seeeeee
[2011/11/29 16:09]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): You can have all the fame in the world, but we are all still just fluff to the universe.
[2011/11/29 16:09]  Zobeid Zuma: oooh?
[2011/11/29 16:09]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): all you have to do take a snap shot of a picture real close
[2011/11/29 16:09]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): Its sucks it that easy
[2011/11/29 16:09]  ArtCrash Exonar: I am interested, can anyone not in the SL art world name 5 SL artists?
[2011/11/29 16:09]  ArtCrash Exonar: Or more than two?
[2011/11/29 16:10]  Extropia DaSilva: You sound like TYler Durden, Lab! ‘you are the singing, dancing crap of the universe! We are all the same compost heap!’.
[2011/11/29 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why wouldmn’t you ever be published, Extie? I don’t understand that.
[2011/11/29 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: One thing is getting published, the other is winning the Nobel prize for literature…
[2011/11/29 16:10]  Khannea Suntzu: Khannea Suntzu looks at Extropia suspiciously
[2011/11/29 16:11]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): Wiizy Gyniod…Seifert Surface
[2011/11/29 16:11]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): Grapix newbie and earth primbe and a few others a lot in profile for places of them
[2011/11/29 16:11]  ArtCrash Exonar: Everyone can be published now, you just need to self publish!
[2011/11/29 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: I’d say that two, yes
[2011/11/29 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, Art, but that doesn’t count 😉
[2011/11/29 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: Becaise publishers are out to make money and they would make more money publishing a book ‘authored’ by a Z list celeb that was very badly written rather than an excellently written book by a nobody like me.
[2011/11/29 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, hmm
[2011/11/29 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: did you ever *try*?
[2011/11/29 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gosh, there are plenty of publishing houses in the UK
[2011/11/29 16:12]  Khannea Suntzu: Good thing you know a primary that is a well known and accomplised author.
[2011/11/29 16:12]  ArtCrash Exonar: Self publishing isn’t to be under rated. I have a friend who did a travel book by self publishing and sold 5000 copies of her book.
[2011/11/29 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, not all houses publish trash 🙂
[2011/11/29 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: the question of book self-publishing is similar to the one about art in general: is a self-published book “art” if it’s not even peer-reviewed, much less edited by critics? 😉
[2011/11/29 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: Well there is a catch 22 in publishing. No publisher will look at your manuscript unless you have an agent, and no agent will take you on unless you have a track record in publishing.
[2011/11/29 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm!
[2011/11/29 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s not what Rowling says in her biography, but I suppose she was lying lol
[2011/11/29 16:14]  Extropia DaSilva: And it has been proven that your manuscript is all but guranteed to be thrown right in the trash without ever having been opened. I mean, these publishers get so many and they cannot look at them all.
[2011/11/29 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I’m not saying it’s easy, though
[2011/11/29 16:15]  ArtCrash Exonar: Extie: that reminds me of Robert Heinlein’s 4 steps to becoming an author. 1) write something 2)finish it 3)send it out and 4) keep sending it out till someone sends you a check.
[2011/11/29 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, you *do* have a track record with your essays, Extie —
[2011/11/29 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: you can definitely submit some to a peer-reviewed academic journal
[2011/11/29 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And then you can show a book publisher what you’ve done.
[2011/11/29 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, you might “Only” get published by teh Oxford Press 😉
[2011/11/29 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: … which nobody reads lol
[2011/11/29 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Almost nobody 🙂
[2011/11/29 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Compared to, say, mainstream trash publishers.
[2011/11/29 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But it would be *a* published book, nevertheless
[2011/11/29 16:16]  Extropia DaSilva: My work is referenced in a book published by Oxford press and there is a little bit about me and my beliefs in that book.
[2011/11/29 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: See? You’re off to a good start!
[2011/11/29 16:17]  Extropia DaSilva: anyway Sl artists,,,
[2011/11/29 16:18]  Zobeid Zuma: Even though it’s been around for a few years…. SL still feels like its just in its beginnings.
[2011/11/29 16:19]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think what a lot of people don’t think about is that 3d art VIEWED inside of a 3d space is a new thing. An actual NEW art form. That is pretty cool and exciting.
[2011/11/29 16:19]  Extropia DaSilva: yeah something as bad as this cannot possibly be mature, Zo;)
[2011/11/29 16:19]  Zobeid Zuma: Haha! That’s another way of looking at it, yeah.
[2011/11/29 16:20]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): The great thing about Sl artworks is they are NOT limited by 3 dimensions.
[2011/11/29 16:20]  ArtCrash Exonar: Well, they are not limited by gravity and other laws of physics… heh
[2011/11/29 16:20]  CLEOPATRA Xigalia: wb gwynnie
[2011/11/29 16:21]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): Wb Gwyn
[2011/11/29 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh Poor Gwyn! Did you crash, dear?
[2011/11/29 16:21]  ArtCrash Exonar: I thought it got quiet here for a while… hahaha
[2011/11/29 16:21]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): lol
[2011/11/29 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: woopsie… sorry
[2011/11/29 16:21]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): Good job.
[2011/11/29 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hrmpf ADSL connection dropped, as usual
[2011/11/29 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2011/11/29 16:22]  Khannea Suntzu: Khannea Suntzu watches Gwyn stare at Toy;s buttplug
[2011/11/29 16:22]  ArtCrash Exonar: I am so happy now that I have Cable internet, it never loses packets.
[2011/11/29 16:22]  CLEOPATRA Xigalia: eeeeek !
[2011/11/29 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: They are limited by whatever laws of physics make the lag at their events an unbearable experience. ‘yeah this will be GREAT!……Once………..it………..re………….zes.
[2011/11/29 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway mmh
[2011/11/29 16:22]  Zobeid Zuma: SL is a programming platform. You can’t take full advantage of its potential with a coder’s perspective.
[2011/11/29 16:22]  ArtCrash Exonar: ha ha true
[2011/11/29 16:22]  Zobeid Zuma: I mean, without a coder’s perspective.
[2011/11/29 16:23]  Extropia DaSilva: yeah
[2011/11/29 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I was typing that obviously different “art forms”, or more correctly, “ways of becoming famous”, are easier to do through a ‘nym in SL than others.
[2011/11/29 16:23]  ArtCrash Exonar: Interactivity is another thing that is easy in SL art that is very difficult in rl art.
[2011/11/29 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Writing, programming…. those are simple
[2011/11/29 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Music, so-so — few virtual bands exist, besides GorillaZ
[2011/11/29 16:23]  Khannea Suntzu: I don’t care. I lost my interest and ambition. Like totally.
[2011/11/29 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aw Khannea. But so long as you’re fine with that, it’s ok
[2011/11/29 16:24]  Khannea Suntzu: I don’t want to do anything any more. It feels as if the world is falling to pieces around me.
[2011/11/29 16:24]  ArtCrash Exonar: I wonder if LL had originally allowed users to use their RL names, how many would have done so….
[2011/11/29 16:24]  Extropia DaSilva: MIght be different in Japan or Korea, Gwyn, I would imaging they have more Idoru than the West.
[2011/11/29 16:24]  ArtCrash Exonar: ?
[2011/11/29 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (possibly, Extie)
[2011/11/29 16:24]  CLEOPATRA Xigalia: not me !
[2011/11/29 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ha! In my dictionary, Khannea, that means “getting old” 🙂
[2011/11/29 16:25]  ArtCrash Exonar: I have bonded seriously with my name. haha
[2011/11/29 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: With which one, Art? hehe
[2011/11/29 16:25]  ArtCrash Exonar: All of them!
[2011/11/29 16:25]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2011/11/29 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oooh
[2011/11/29 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: good for you! 🙂
[2011/11/29 16:25]  Extropia DaSilva: Hmmm…I cannot imagine being called anything other than Extropia DaSilva.
[2011/11/29 16:26]  CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i dont like my sl name at all
[2011/11/29 16:26]  ArtCrash Exonar: Different personality aspects for different names.
[2011/11/29 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: there she goes again
[2011/11/29 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pfft. *Now* it was a plain, old, viewer crash
[2011/11/29 16:27]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): poor girl
[2011/11/29 16:28]  Extropia DaSilva: The SL god is testing your faith like the Biblical God did with Job, Gwyn!
[2011/11/29 16:28]  ArtCrash Exonar: Here is an interesting thing: a friend of mine did sl for a couple of short stints then left and gave me their avatar and password. When I go deep stealth, I use that avatar. What is the morality of that?
[2011/11/29 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I missed Khannea’s answer…
[2011/11/29 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh-oh, Extie…
[2011/11/29 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder what that means for me then!
[2011/11/29 16:28]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): Would that Philip Linden the High Priest?
[2011/11/29 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: is there still this group that loved to discuss ethical things? This would be appropriate for them 🙂
[2011/11/29 16:29]  Khannea Suntzu: Pfft. I see a lot of under 20 kids feeling precisely the same apathy.
[2011/11/29 16:29]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): more like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deal_with_the_Devil lol
[2011/11/29 16:29]  ArtCrash Exonar: Someone told God to ‘get a job’ and he misunderstood what that meant…..
[2011/11/29 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: ROFL!
[2011/11/29 16:30]  Khannea Suntzu: Poem *sad weary sigh*
[2011/11/29 16:30]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): My connection’s starting to die for the evening….take care, everyone 🙂
[2011/11/29 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: If the avatar is a digital person not meant to represent anyone in Sl and you had the primary’s blessing, it is perfectly OK! What difference is there between my primary pretending to be me and your primary pretending to be me? So long as I seem like the same old Extie to people ‘I’ meet, that is all that matters, Art:)
[2011/11/29 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: *RL
[2011/11/29 16:30]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): I believe it best not anger superior deties.. we are soft,and crunchy
[2011/11/29 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yummy!
[2011/11/29 16:30]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): LOL
[2011/11/29 16:30]  ArtCrash Exonar: Yes, it is all about ‘branding’…. heh
[2011/11/29 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: BTW did you convince anyone you were this avatar, Art?
[2011/11/29 16:30]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): lol
[2011/11/29 16:31]  ArtCrash Exonar: Yes, easily.
[2011/11/29 16:31]  Khannea Suntzu: I convinced myself.
[2011/11/29 16:31]  Extropia DaSilva: See, Gwyn, I was RIGHT! ‘Virals And Definitives in SL’ was RIGHT!
[2011/11/29 16:31]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): That is pretty good
[2011/11/29 16:31]  Extropia DaSilva: I CAn outlive my primary!
[2011/11/29 16:31]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): Well Extropia I would say your both. People reflect threw there AVI’s it seems for most and carry trait’s of the individuals in there representation’s
[2011/11/29 16:31]  Extropia DaSilva: I CAN!
[2011/11/29 16:31]  ArtCrash Exonar: BTW, my RL friend left SL because his girlfriend ordered him to! haha
[2011/11/29 16:31]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): Every time I find myself, it ran off screaming
[2011/11/29 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh Extie. Well, perhaps you can 😉
[2011/11/29 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: You need to convince people that you’re an avatar?
[2011/11/29 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
[2011/11/29 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn is now confused
[2011/11/29 16:32]  Extropia DaSilva: No
[2011/11/29 16:32]  ArtCrash Exonar: har
[2011/11/29 16:32]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): LOL
[2011/11/29 16:32]  CLEOPATRA Xigalia: convince yourself maybe !
[2011/11/29 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I+m sure I got this wrong!
[2011/11/29 16:32]  Extropia DaSilva: No
[2011/11/29 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who needs to be convinced, and who is doing the convincing?
[2011/11/29 16:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or what did Art mean?
[2011/11/29 16:33]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): Will one live with out the other?
[2011/11/29 16:33]  Zobeid Zuma: Zobeid Zuma glances at the clock…
[2011/11/29 16:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, poem time
[2011/11/29 16:33]  CLEOPATRA Xigalia: 🙂
[2011/11/29 16:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: From a master poet,
[2011/11/29 16:33]  Khannea Suntzu: Khannea Suntzu glances for some cock
[2011/11/29 16:33]  Extropia DaSilva: I want people like you and Ari ans especially my sister Jamie and partner Seren to believe I am the same Extropia even if the primary is somebody else. Like Art, say.
[2011/11/29 16:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: famous in all SL.
[2011/11/29 16:33]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): yes Poem please. 🙂
[2011/11/29 16:33]  Melody Seven (melody.trefusis): If people from Poland are called Poles, why aren’t people from Holland called Holes and from Finland Fines?
[2011/11/29 16:33]  Khannea Suntzu: clock
[2011/11/29 16:33]  Extropia DaSilva: anyway my time is up!
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