THINKERS NOV 22 2011: SETI AND RELIGION

Extropia DaSilva: SETI AND RELIGION Nov 22 If SETI ever succeeds in finding evidence of alien civilizations, what impact would that have on the anthropocentric world religions?
[2011/11/22 15:30]  Kore Jardberg: Ivy, I second this
[2011/11/22 15:31]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): features the word ‘religion’
[2011/11/22 15:31]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Depends, really.
[2011/11/22 15:31]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): I don’t think the Mormons would flinch.
[2011/11/22 15:31]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): so we might soon leave ‘civilization’ out of
[2011/11/22 15:31]  Extropia DaSilva: on what?
[2011/11/22 15:31]  Kore Jardberg: Aren’t religions mentionning angels and other extra-terrestrial creatures?
[2011/11/22 15:31]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I imagine Judaism and the Dharmic religions would just shrug; Mormons would jump up and down and shout, “I told you so!!”
[2011/11/22 15:32]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): The Scientologists would be saying “Where’s Xeno?”
[2011/11/22 15:32]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Scientologists would annoy the aliens until they left, disgusted :\
[2011/11/22 15:32]  Extropia DaSilva: Angels are not extraterrestrial. They are supernatural.
[2011/11/22 15:32]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): To which we reply with a pointer to the Xeno’s all over the Grid.
[2011/11/22 15:32]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): talking rligious aliens? or are they most probably atheists?
[2011/11/22 15:32]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Raelians would go with them…
[2011/11/22 15:32]  Kore Jardberg: Ataraxia: unless you get them to pay for fringe science books
[2011/11/22 15:33]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): hehe Tara
[2011/11/22 15:33]  Kore Jardberg: Extropia: I disagree, angels don’t live on Earth
[2011/11/22 15:33]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Tara Li has always found Harry Harrison’s “Roads of Askelon” to be instructive…
[2011/11/22 15:33]  Ivy Sunkiller: it would be hillarious to have grey folk came in on flying saucers, come down to earth with pictures of Jesus, preaching christianity a new
[2011/11/22 15:33]  Kore Jardberg: Extropia: by Judaism, Christianism and Islam teachings, they’re in heaven, not on Earth
[2011/11/22 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: Whether they are religious are not is not the point. The point is, they are not human.
[2011/11/22 15:33]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): There’s a Douglas Adamsy story in that, Ivy 😛
[2011/11/22 15:34]  Kore Jardberg: Extropia: so you expect SETI to find… humans??
[2011/11/22 15:34]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): humanoids … that is a racistical tendency
[2011/11/22 15:34]  Ivy Sunkiller: Kore: well, that would go along with Stargate storyline :p
[2011/11/22 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: Aliens ar not supernatural and that is the difference between them an angels. And I expect SETI to find non-human alien intelligence.
[2011/11/22 15:35]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): or dump aliens
[2011/11/22 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: well, I expect it to not find any intelligence at all.
[2011/11/22 15:35]  Kore Jardberg: Ivy: my mother is a big fan of this series
[2011/11/22 15:35]  Kei Mhia: The universe is a big place it all can’t be empty
[2011/11/22 15:35]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi Nea
[2011/11/22 15:35]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Yeah – but the Fermi Paradox is an important question…
[2011/11/22 15:36]  Nea Wahwah: Hello
[2011/11/22 15:36]  Nea Wahwah: Thank you
[2011/11/22 15:36]  Ivy Sunkiller: hey hey there
[2011/11/22 15:36]  Ivy Sunkiller: Gwyn!
[2011/11/22 15:36]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi Gwyn 🙂
[2011/11/22 15:36]  Kore Jardberg: btw, when I first read the topic aliens & religion, I thought we would talk about the possible religion aliens might practise
[2011/11/22 15:36]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Personally, I suspect Second Life – type things explains it.
[2011/11/22 15:36]  Extropia DaSilva: Can. Anyway, the point is that any sufficently advanced communication is indistinguishable from noise.
[2011/11/22 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello fellow Thinkers ;9
[2011/11/22 15:36]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Hi, Gwyneth, Nea!
[2011/11/22 15:36]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): so we exspect, even demand them to be … non-religious, humanoid, and technically advanced
[2011/11/22 15:36]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Azathothery, probably, Kore :p
[2011/11/22 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol violet
[2011/11/22 15:37]  Kore Jardberg: Non-religious in what sense? Not mentioned in human books, or not practising any religion?
[2011/11/22 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: Seti is more narrow than many suppose. It is looking for intelligences at a level similar to ours. Probably exceedingly rare.
[2011/11/22 15:37]  Kei Mhia: Does “ET” need to be techilogically inclined, or even intelligent to count here?
[2011/11/22 15:37]  Kore Jardberg: Kei: he’s not even cute
[2011/11/22 15:37]  Kei Mhia: Does “ET” need to be technologically inclined, or even intelligent to count here?
[2011/11/22 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: It would have to be technological for Seti to find it.
[2011/11/22 15:37]  Zobeid Zuma: Gwyn, hii!
[2011/11/22 15:38]  Kei Mhia: true
[2011/11/22 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: hey Gwyn
[2011/11/22 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Zo lol
[2011/11/22 15:38]  Jazz Rozen: hi everyone
[2011/11/22 15:38]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Well, if they’re not technologically inclined, we won’t find them until we visit, instead of just scanning.
[2011/11/22 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hi Extie and others
[2011/11/22 15:38]  Kore Jardberg: Hi Gwyneth
[2011/11/22 15:38]  Ivy Sunkiller: well, I’d find religious aliens that are able of stellar travel… disappointing
[2011/11/22 15:38]  Kei Mhia: but any life would upset some of the people
[2011/11/22 15:38]  Ivy Sunkiller: mostly because it would mean my expectations for religions dying out are too optimistic
[2011/11/22 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: We might. The biosphere created by complex life might show up on spectrographs or something.
[2011/11/22 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: … and if they’re technically inclined, and have been so for several millenia, gthey might have a comopletely different and rational approach to religion 😉
[2011/11/22 15:39]  Kore Jardberg: Human rights is a religion too, I doubt one can escape from dogmas as long as there’s a society
[2011/11/22 15:39]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi Rhi 🙂
[2011/11/22 15:39]  Zobeid Zuma: Hi Rhi!
[2011/11/22 15:39]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi Vi
[2011/11/22 15:39]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi zoe
[2011/11/22 15:39]  Extropia DaSilva: Dogma is essential to understanding.
[2011/11/22 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Kore, but at least some human rights have a rational basis: making people more happy, easing their suffering
[2011/11/22 15:39]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Complex life, sure – but could we distinguish non-technological intelligence?
[2011/11/22 15:39]  Kore Jardberg: How so Extropia? I thought understanding meant searching for the truth, not freezing believes
[2011/11/22 15:39]  AnthonyE Staryk: wouldn’t it throw creationists more into a tither than anything else? Theories rooted in the idea that we’re the only intelligent life would be impacted would they not?
[2011/11/22 15:39]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Thanks for the tp, ari
[2011/11/22 15:39]  Arisia Vita: yw
[2011/11/22 15:40]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Yes, Anthony
[2011/11/22 15:40]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): But even then…..what kind of artist makes one thing and then stops, anyway?
[2011/11/22 15:40]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Hi, Rhiannon!
[2011/11/22 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Catholics (who are not creationists in the usual sense, anyway….) would embrace new lifeforms wherever they are, and convert them happily 🙂
[2011/11/22 15:40]  Kore Jardberg: AnthonyE: let’s just hope they didn’t invent Judaism on other planets
[2011/11/22 15:40]  Big John Manatiso (bj.manatiso): Are there any new data to apply to Drake’s Equation?
[2011/11/22 15:40]  Extropia DaSilva: ‘the sun is poweed by nuclear fusion’ is an exampleof dogma. It is also true. People mistakenly equate ‘dogma’ with ‘clinging to beliefs that are wrong or not even wrong’.
[2011/11/22 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not yet, Big John, although with teh amount of extrasolar planets found recently, there might
[2011/11/22 15:41]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): The Kepler data gives us some initial information on planetary formation rates, BJ.
[2011/11/22 15:41]  Kore Jardberg: AnthonyE: I mean, unless you want to get a Interstellar union of creationists
[2011/11/22 15:41]  Big John Manatiso (bj.manatiso): …or are we still stuck at one civilisation….us.
[2011/11/22 15:41]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Hi, Dianne!
[2011/11/22 15:41]  Zobeid Zuma: There’s a lot of new knowledge about exoplanets, for whatever that’s worth.
[2011/11/22 15:41]  Dianne Melson: hi!
[2011/11/22 15:41]  Extropia DaSilva: …Oh hello Rhi and welcome back!
[2011/11/22 15:41]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Antony, some would.  Bur bin humans are all through the Bible
[2011/11/22 15:41]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi Tara!
[2011/11/22 15:41]  Big John Manatiso (bj.manatiso): …but few exoplanets known with water.
[2011/11/22 15:42]  AnthonyE Staryk: Hi Rhi…
[2011/11/22 15:42]  Kore Jardberg: And even fewer with cable TV
[2011/11/22 15:42]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): there is even rumor on fision particles reachinh speed above light
[2011/11/22 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: yes, but I don’t think it’s at a point where it might influence Drake’s ERQUATUON YET
[2011/11/22 15:42]  Kei Mhia: You could say one world fully examined – has life – possibity of life observed at unity.
[2011/11/22 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops sorry
[2011/11/22 15:42]  Kore Jardberg: Luisa: what do you mean by fission particle? Collision based ones?
[2011/11/22 15:42]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi Extie!
[2011/11/22 15:42]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Neutrinos don’t generally play a role in fission, as far as we understand them.
[2011/11/22 15:43]  Kore Jardberg: TaraJi: right
[2011/11/22 15:43]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi Anthony
[2011/11/22 15:43]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Though – who knows – maybe they *DO* actually trigger “spontaneous” fission.
[2011/11/22 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: There is a scientis working for Seti (forget her name, sorry) who says success will mean the death of current religions but that Religion itself will evolve to accomodate this news.
[2011/11/22 15:43]  Kore Jardberg: Well, some thought evolution would provoke the death of religion too
[2011/11/22 15:43]  Big John Manatiso (bj.manatiso): Our “God Gene” will accomodate anything.
[2011/11/22 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that this scientist has actually little knowledge of current religions.
[2011/11/22 15:43]  Kore Jardberg: but religion members are increasing now with Islam in Europe
[2011/11/22 15:43]  Jazz Rozen: I dont think it would be death of religion. Some will always cling to their religions
[2011/11/22 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: Did it change it, though, Kore?
[2011/11/22 15:44]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie,  many religious people have already accommodated it
[2011/11/22 15:44]  Kore Jardberg: No, it’s getting worse
[2011/11/22 15:44]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Depends, in part, on how you define “religion”.
[2011/11/22 15:44]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I think Dharmic religions are pretty flexible…..Buddhism is eager to change and Hinduism takes a pretty cosmic view anyway
[2011/11/22 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: belief in extraterreswtrial beings is almost mandatgory in Buddhism, for example 😉
[2011/11/22 15:44]  Ivy Sunkiller: Kore: it started it at very least
[2011/11/22 15:44]  Kore Jardberg: Weak people always seek certitudes in trouble times
[2011/11/22 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Catholicism has no problem either, Genesis is just an allegory.
[2011/11/22 15:44]  Kore Jardberg: Gwyneth: they wish it to be now
[2011/11/22 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we’re talking about Seti’s results *now*.
[2011/11/22 15:45]  Kore Jardberg: It’s based on mesopotamian science of their time
[2011/11/22 15:45]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Mm, Gwyn…I think it’s mostly just creationism that’s affected; and even then, only a specific subset
[2011/11/22 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Violet.
[2011/11/22 15:45]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): u recall a twilight zone where a boy asked an alien If They believed iN God on his world.  He said, yes, and his son
[2011/11/22 15:45]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): *nods*
[2011/11/22 15:45]  Ivy Sunkiller: what about the unpredictable pricinple, the “magical” function of an observer in quantum mechanics, and christian god being the ultimate observer?
[2011/11/22 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Suits them right. Evolution and religion can co-exist, if you’re clever 😉
[2011/11/22 15:45]  Ivy Sunkiller: oh and hi Rhi, sorry for noticing you so late, got distracted here 🙂
[2011/11/22 15:45]  Jazz Rozen: eys GWyneth
[2011/11/22 15:45]  Jazz Rozen: *yes
[2011/11/22 15:45]  Kore Jardberg: Ivy: there’s been a recent paper that shows there’s no need for an observer to manage decoherency in quantum mechanics
[2011/11/22 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: But if Jesus came to save humans here on this planet and only humans on this planet, how does that reconcile with life on other planets?
[2011/11/22 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: yeah, yeah, Kore 😉
[2011/11/22 15:46]  Kore Jardberg: Extropia: well, I will be the first to throw a stone on him
[2011/11/22 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: WHO SAID THAT, EXTIE? JESUS CERTAINLY DIDN’T 😉
[2011/11/22 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: ack sorry
[2011/11/22 15:46]  Nea Wahwah: lol
[2011/11/22 15:46]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Hi, Kei!
[2011/11/22 15:46]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): The early parts of Genesis–where life starts happening–still read like a romantic take on evolution to me, actually
[2011/11/22 15:46]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi Ivy!
[2011/11/22 15:46]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): down from soapbox, Gwyn, asap 😀
[2011/11/22 15:47]  Extropia DaSilva: My ears are ringing now, Gwyn.
[2011/11/22 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Turning the caps key off works fine lol
[2011/11/22 15:47]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): VI, yes. Natbw the version God thought we could handle
[2011/11/22 15:47]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi Pam 🙂
[2011/11/22 15:47]  Ivy Sunkiller: Kore: yeah, but would god, being the ultimate observer of everything at all times, make quantum mechanics impossible to work the way they do?
[2011/11/22 15:48]  Conover’s Flight-Helper 6.3.3 (WEAR ME!): Flight-helper is ready and operational.
[2011/11/22 15:48]  Ivy Sunkiller: heya Lem
[2011/11/22 15:48]  Kei Mhia: A belated “Hii” folks
[2011/11/22 15:48]  Pamala Clift: Hi everyone..
[2011/11/22 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: Hello Lem:)
[2011/11/22 15:48]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi Lem 🙂
[2011/11/22 15:48]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): And Kei 🙂
[2011/11/22 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: heya Pamala
[2011/11/22 15:48]  Lem Skall: hi everyone
[2011/11/22 15:49]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Hi, Lem! Hi, Pamala!
[2011/11/22 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: OK for benefit of new arrivals topic is..
[2011/11/22 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: SETI AND RELIGION Nov 22 If SETI ever succeeds in finding evidence of alien civilizations, what impact would that have on the anthropocentric world religions?
[2011/11/22 15:49]  Pamala Clift: Yep.. smile..
[2011/11/22 15:50]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): oh, missed the anthro detail
[2011/11/22 15:50]  Kei Mhia: Has to be SETI that finds them?
[2011/11/22 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh me too!
[2011/11/22 15:50]  Lem Skall: it depends on what religion the aliens have, if any
[2011/11/22 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: No, Kei.
[2011/11/22 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Islam would simply extend the House of War 🙂
[2011/11/22 15:50]  AnthonyE Staryk: wouldn’t it also depend on which religion practiced here belong to the aliens?
[2011/11/22 15:50]  Ivy Sunkiller: what if some relgious funded organisation found aliens first?
[2011/11/22 15:51]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): we are created by god, to be equal in shape or so it’s been written. that *requires* aliens to be humanoid, too. Otherwise, another God created them. If there are gods
[2011/11/22 15:51]  Dianne Melson: i thoughtseti was ended now?
[2011/11/22 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Caritas would certianly help aliens.
[2011/11/22 15:51]  Pamala Clift: change is always difficult. but just because God now happens to be God of the Universe rather than God of a faction.. shouldnt really change a thing.. just a shift of focus
[2011/11/22 15:51]  Jazz Rozen: may creationists have already moved to the intelligent design position which would account for alien life forms
[2011/11/22 15:51]  Ivy Sunkiller: *and so a sci fi novel plot has been born*
[2011/11/22 15:51]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi oan
[2011/11/22 15:51]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Nah – there’s always SETI going on, Dianne.
[2011/11/22 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: Why does it depend on the religion of aliens? Surely the point is that aliens are not human but are of equal intelligence and consciousness. At least.
[2011/11/22 15:51]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Just with more or less funding, with different projects carrying it out.
[2011/11/22 15:51]  Ivy Sunkiller: hey there Formatting
[2011/11/22 15:51]  Formatting Heliosense: errr …fallllllllling forever
[2011/11/22 15:51]  Formatting Heliosense: heh
[2011/11/22 15:51]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Hi, Formatting!
[2011/11/22 15:52]  AnthonyE Staryk: errr…it was a joke..but ok ㋡
[2011/11/22 15:52]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): serum is still privately funded
[2011/11/22 15:52]  Ivy Sunkiller: Ivy Sunkiller plays nyan cat for Formatting
[2011/11/22 15:52]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): seti
[2011/11/22 15:52]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): whispers: from current overall performance, it
[2011/11/22 15:52]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): s more possible aliens discover SETI
[2011/11/22 15:52]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): before that program discovers anything
[2011/11/22 15:52]  Ivy Sunkiller: hah 🙂
[2011/11/22 15:52]  Formatting Heliosense: hello all
[2011/11/22 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps what is meant is that if some aliens pop up with a copy of the Bible under their arms, they might survive the wrath of fanatical believers 🙂
[2011/11/22 15:52]  Formatting Heliosense: SETI is a great topic
[2011/11/22 15:52]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Then again, what happens to religion if all aliens *ARE* humanoid, to a great degree?
[2011/11/22 15:52]  Ivy Sunkiller: they should be sending something then, not just recieving
[2011/11/22 15:52]  Formatting Heliosense: i’m working to set up an artist in residence there next summer! ㋡
[2011/11/22 15:52]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): yes cab actually be a part . Gave tour computer process some data
[2011/11/22 15:52]  Ivy Sunkiller: though I guess we send enough stuff to space already 🙂
[2011/11/22 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: I went to a furnitture store once. It was the search for Settee.
[2011/11/22 15:53]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): hehe
[2011/11/22 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Guide to Being a Good Alien. #1 Bring a Bible wigth you at all times. At worst, it makes a good short-range weapon
[2011/11/22 15:53]  Extropia DaSilva: sorry:)
[2011/11/22 15:53]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): squids could prove thegenesis to be faulty 🙂
[2011/11/22 15:53]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): whispers: *laughs*
[2011/11/22 15:53]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): groaning at Extie
[2011/11/22 15:53]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): “To Serve Man”…
[2011/11/22 15:53]  Lem Skall: if the aliens have no religion then we may learn from them, if they have a very similar religion then that may be a confirmation that there really is a god except that it has created “man’ in many forms
[2011/11/22 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn loves bad puns
[2011/11/22 15:53]  Big John Manatiso (bj.manatiso): Ten Thousand commedians lookin’ for work and we have Extropia…
[2011/11/22 15:53]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): I was looking around in the ocean the other day for some dolphins – the Search for Ceti.
[2011/11/22 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Tara
[2011/11/22 15:54]  Jazz Rozen: (sorry have to go afk be back soon )
[2011/11/22 15:54]  Ivy Sunkiller: Lem: how about, they learn from us and invent a religion of their own?
[2011/11/22 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: kk Jazz
[2011/11/22 15:54]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): Lem, point .. our concept of ‘man’ could be just very narrow
[2011/11/22 15:54]  Kei Mhia: I liked the story were alians liveing on earih anounced themselfs by visiying the SETI office, they thought it would be polite to see them 1st.
[2011/11/22 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh my! that’s really, really scary, Ivy!
[2011/11/22 15:54]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Ivy – what if they learn the Scientific Method, first, and then decide to test our religion?
[2011/11/22 15:54]  Ivy Sunkiller: I know, right!
[2011/11/22 15:54]  Pamala Clift: Well we at humans are so narrow minded that we wouldn recieve the information anyway.. We are looking for it in sounds mostly.. when information might best transmitted in something altogether different. Animals have been trying to commmunicate with us for years.. We still dont GET it.
[2011/11/22 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: what if they happen to have wings and a golden halo about their golden hair?
[2011/11/22 15:54]  Kore Jardberg: Ivy: sorry, was looking for a paper — I don’t believe in God so I’m not sure what to answer to this
[2011/11/22 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I want to read that story, Kei 🙂
[2011/11/22 15:55]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): lem, yes. latitudinarian religion Will survive.  C S lewis
[2011/11/22 15:55]  Ivy Sunkiller: Kore: well, me neither (on both)
[2011/11/22 15:55]  Lem Skall: yeah, they may learn from us too but many humans will give up religioon; so there would be something going both ways but the balance would somewhere in the middle
[2011/11/22 15:55]  Kei Mhia: contact me later and I’ll look up the url Gwyneth
[2011/11/22 15:55]  Extropia DaSilva: BTW does the continued failure of SETI count in favour of the anthropocentric religions?
[2011/11/22 15:55]  Formatting Heliosense: you don’t think religion will transition away from deity worship Lem?
[2011/11/22 15:56]  Kore Jardberg: Pamala: in sound? What do you mean? SETI is a electromagnetic waves receiver
[2011/11/22 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: that reminds me of another hsort story where the landed aliens had the unfortunate luck of looking exactly like demons… and got vaporized by H-bombs on touchdown 🙂
[2011/11/22 15:56]  Lem Skall: except if the aliens already know a lot of other alien species and they already concluded between them that there is no god
[2011/11/22 15:56]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): how much count at their favor at all
[2011/11/22 15:56]  Lem Skall: Form, again that depends on the aliens too
[2011/11/22 15:56]  Pamala Clift: We dont have data.. until we have data… smile
[2011/11/22 15:56]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie,  its a big universe
[2011/11/22 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Formatting: that’s rather unlikely. We humans are always looking for the cause of everything being external to ourselves.
[2011/11/22 15:57]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): That’s sorta some of the earlier stories in The Martian Chronicles in reverse, Gwyn :p
[2011/11/22 15:57]  Formatting Heliosense: ツ so we’re assuming “aliens” will be intelligent beings?
[2011/11/22 15:57]  Kore Jardberg: In my opinion, the nearest religious challenge is AGI, not ET, because AGI can’t be saved by Jesus by definition since they’re not concerned by the original sin
[2011/11/22 15:57]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): …which is one of my favorite depictions of aliens in fiction, actually!
[2011/11/22 15:57]  Extropia DaSilva: They would have to be for SETI to find them, Formatting.
[2011/11/22 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh Kore
[2011/11/22 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: GOOD point!
[2011/11/22 15:57]  Kore Jardberg: Thanks
[2011/11/22 15:57]  Formatting Heliosense: i would say even unintelligent lifeforms would serisouly make those who worship a creator question their beliefs (hopefully)
[2011/11/22 15:57]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): could be outcasts, dumped onto this mudball in space .. to accompany the other failures making a living there
[2011/11/22 15:57]  AnthonyE Staryk: such typical humans, we keep looking “out there” and what of the possibility that they’ve been with us all along….what if that’s why SETI isn’t getting anthing so far?
[2011/11/22 15:57]  Ivy Sunkiller: heya dust
[2011/11/22 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, they can still be accepted by other religions…
[2011/11/22 15:57]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, Korel, unless tiu take AB existential view i
[2011/11/22 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: … thus throwing Earth into another all-out religious war against anyone believing in Jesus hehe
[2011/11/22 15:58]  Formatting Heliosense: ahh yes, true Extie – SETI recently decided to REFIGURE the way they were searching I believe
[2011/11/22 15:58]  <<UrbanizeD>> Armchair “Emanuelle’s Sisters” // Pure Mono: Restricted to owner only!
[2011/11/22 15:58]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): of original sun, Luke beibuhr
[2011/11/22 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: guess whose side the AGI will be on
[2011/11/22 15:58]  Formatting Heliosense: can’t remember the details of that article though 😦
[2011/11/22 15:58]  Kore Jardberg: Their own and kill all parasites
[2011/11/22 15:58]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Tara Li remembers the story of the mega-computer asked if there was a God. “There is, now.”
[2011/11/22 15:58]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Oh, I have to go…..take care, everyone 🙂
[2011/11/22 15:58]  Stefano (stephanos.kowalski): Religions wouldn´t be confronted by anything. They would only adapt and ignore what doesn´t fit
[2011/11/22 15:58]  Kore Jardberg: Night Violet
[2011/11/22 15:58]  Pamala Clift: Haha Tara
[2011/11/22 15:58]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Later, Violet!
[2011/11/22 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s from Isaac Asimov, right, Tara?
[2011/11/22 15:58]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): cu VI
[2011/11/22 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: or was it from Clarke?
[2011/11/22 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: Well whatever SETI decide to do for purposes of thi discussion aliens are intelligent and technological
[2011/11/22 15:59]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): I’m not certain, Gwyneth – I want to say Clarke or Bova…
[2011/11/22 15:59]  Kore Jardberg: TaraLi: this precludes a God creator
[2011/11/22 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Probablyu Clarke then
[2011/11/22 15:59]  Pamala Clift: NO it doesnt..
[2011/11/22 15:59]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi lab
[2011/11/22 15:59]  Stefano (stephanos.kowalski): The first thing after SETI gets an alien message would be religions building transmitters to start converting them
[2011/11/22 15:59]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): One particular SETI project is, Formatting…
[2011/11/22 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need some aliens for SETI to find, so they can get funded again 😉
[2011/11/22 15:59]  Dianne Melson: yes i read it in new scientist that seti is being abandoned
[2011/11/22 15:59]  Pamala Clift: you can make a cat and a dog and a human and an alien and still be a god
[2011/11/22 16:00]  Kore Jardberg: Stephanos: that would be protestants for sure
[2011/11/22 16:00]  Formatting Heliosense: the woman that played the researcher in “Contact” gave a HUGE donation because she liked the role she played i guess ツ
[2011/11/22 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Stefano: only for some proselytising religions. Catholicism would definitely do that.
[2011/11/22 16:00]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): There are those looking for laser emissions, and other possible means…
[2011/11/22 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kore: not for literal Protestants, no
[2011/11/22 16:00]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Jodi Foster
[2011/11/22 16:00]  Formatting Heliosense: I wish I was already an artist in resident so i could give some more detail to the discussion about SETI
[2011/11/22 16:00]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Just the radio searchers are having problems.
[2011/11/22 16:00]  Stefano (stephanos.kowalski): Sure, some would demonize the aliens. It happended a lot of times here
[2011/11/22 16:00]  Extropia DaSilva: Well even making universes is technologically possible in principle, so God is looking more and more ordinary as the ages go by;)
[2011/11/22 16:00]  Formatting Heliosense: I hope it works out!
[2011/11/22 16:00]  Kore Jardberg: Gwyneth: I saw more modern protestant missionaries than catholic ones abroad
[2011/11/22 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not swurprised, but ‘abroad’ means ‘among other humans’
[2011/11/22 16:01]  Kore Jardberg: Gwyneth: even the Japanese protestant church is giving away bible in Belarus
[2011/11/22 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: yes — then why worship Him? hehe
[2011/11/22 16:01]  Kei Mhia: I like the idea that they would build transmittes to “convert” the alians…
[2011/11/22 16:01]  Kore Jardberg: Not to mention Americans
[2011/11/22 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[2011/11/22 16:01]  Formatting Heliosense: I think the creation side of God is looking less “whatever” – but the spirituality may become more prevalent as we move forward with technology
[2011/11/22 16:01]  Formatting Heliosense: as a way for people to connect
[2011/11/22 16:01]  Pamala Clift: People need order and something consistent. God works for the solidarity.. If for some reason isnt the center.. a new center will be found.
[2011/11/22 16:01]  Formatting Heliosense: and stay in touch with nature
[2011/11/22 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s not about being more prolesytist or less; it’s about discussing if aliens have a soul worth saving or not.
[2011/11/22 16:02]  Pamala Clift: Do dogs?
[2011/11/22 16:02]  Kore Jardberg: Formatting: do you mean that advancing virtual realistic sex will help getting more spiritual?
[2011/11/22 16:02]  Formatting Heliosense: and, in turn, i would hope that “God” would become “Nature” again – Spinoza-esque in that sense
[2011/11/22 16:02]  Formatting Heliosense: not at all Kore
[2011/11/22 16:02]  Pamala Clift: have souls>? Aliens would be in the same boat
[2011/11/22 16:02]  Extropia DaSilva: I think we should worship technology, personally. Thereis much more evidence that it actually changes life for the better (and sometmes worse) than God. I do not know what God actually does these days.
[2011/11/22 16:02]  Kore Jardberg: Formatting: TV didn’t help getting more spiritual nor did the Internet
[2011/11/22 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I disagree, Pamala. People need external causes to be comfortable that their problems are outside their ability to fix. That’s the motivation.ç
[2011/11/22 16:02]  Formatting Heliosense: I mean that with virtual sex instead of organic sex people will yearn for a lost connection to nature
[2011/11/22 16:02]  Lem Skall: I think it will definitely raise doubts in many religious people but there will still be some diehards who may become even more fanatical
[2011/11/22 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: works in a computer repair shop somewhere 😉
[2011/11/22 16:03]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): I hate robo-callers.
[2011/11/22 16:03]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): *sighs*
[2011/11/22 16:03]  Kore Jardberg: Extropia: technology? But it’s a human product, so does it mean you worship scientists/engineers?
[2011/11/22 16:03]  Formatting Heliosense: and “nature” may become as mystical a thought as “god” is today (if we continue to remove ourselves from it as much as we seem to be doing)
[2011/11/22 16:03]  Stefano (stephanos.kowalski): /aliens would have “souls” worth saving, unless the
[2011/11/22 16:03]  Stefano (stephanos.kowalski): y absolutely object to it
[2011/11/22 16:03]  Extropia DaSilva: Hey V sex is way better. Every time Seren and I have sex it is amazing! RL sex is sometimes mediocre
[2011/11/22 16:03]  Pamala Clift: Well I agree, alot of people need to feel that something ELSE brought on their misfortune.. I am not talking about a God used just for that.
[2011/11/22 16:03]  Stefano (stephanos.kowalski): or if we somehow could and decide to kill them all
[2011/11/22 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Stefano: again, it depends on a particular religion being more literal or more allegorical in their interpretation of their particular holy book.
[2011/11/22 16:04]  Kore Jardberg: Extropia: if you mean having to use rubber to have sex, I would agree with that
[2011/11/22 16:04]  Extropia DaSilva: Scientists and engineers are just things used by tecnology to diversify and propogate.
[2011/11/22 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If they’re literal, there cannot exist aliens with souls, so they are surely demons and have to be destroyed 😉
[2011/11/22 16:04]  Stefano (stephanos.kowalski): all are allegorical, some more than others
[2011/11/22 16:04]  Kore Jardberg: Extropia: it’s a teleological perspective
[2011/11/22 16:04]  Extropia DaSilva: uhuh
[2011/11/22 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed; it’s not black-and-white
[2011/11/22 16:04]  Ivy Sunkiller: Extie: well, *you* can’t have RL sex technically speaking 🙂
[2011/11/22 16:04]  Pamala Clift: What happened to the prospective that they are ALL Gods creatures?
[2011/11/22 16:04]  Kore Jardberg: How so Ivy?
[2011/11/22 16:05]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): are we talking alien sex now?
[2011/11/22 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, reifying technology… nice thought, Extie 🙂
[2011/11/22 16:05]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Hum….
[2011/11/22 16:05]  Extropia DaSilva: Because I only exist in online spaces
[2011/11/22 16:05]  Kore Jardberg: Luisa: we were from the beginning, SETI is a code name for artificial vagina
[2011/11/22 16:05]  Ivy Sunkiller: Kore: Extie is a digital person
[2011/11/22 16:05]  Kore Jardberg: Ivy: oh okay, got ya
[2011/11/22 16:05]  Formatting Heliosense: ㋡
[2011/11/22 16:05]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Tara Li sends Captain Jack to handle the alien sex.
[2011/11/22 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Here is a provocative thought, though — technology can only provide *temporary* benefits. Of course, for some people, the temporary benefit lasts their whole lives, so that’s good for them.
[2011/11/22 16:05]  Formatting Heliosense: waiting for the autobiography of a digital person by Extropia DaSilva still 😉
[2011/11/22 16:06]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): if the aliens have something similar to SETI, and could hear us, they might duck down
[2011/11/22 16:06]  Kore Jardberg: Gwyneth: creative destruction says it all
[2011/11/22 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes
[2011/11/22 16:06]  Stefano (stephanos.kowalski): God created the world in 7 days. The evidence says that this didn´t happen ? So the 7 days were metaforical. So there are aliens ? Then the “made in His image” is metaforical
[2011/11/22 16:06]  Lem Skall: Form, now that’s an idea; Extie, did you see that?
[2011/11/22 16:06]  Kore Jardberg: Luisa: good point, I would avoid this planet if possible
[2011/11/22 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Stefano: try to argue that with a literalist Christian 🙂
[2011/11/22 16:06]  Extropia DaSilva: guess that will have to wait for my AI brain.
[2011/11/22 16:06]  Kei Mhia: what lenght of time is a day for god?
[2011/11/22 16:06]  Kore Jardberg: Kei: 1000 years
[2011/11/22 16:07]  Kore Jardberg: (in monotheism)
[2011/11/22 16:07]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Now, if Extropia publishes a book via CreateSpace or some such… A virtual person creating a real product?
[2011/11/22 16:07]  Pamala Clift: that is what Mormons believe 1000 yrs
[2011/11/22 16:07]  Stefano (stephanos.kowalski): the kind that think that bats are birds ?
[2011/11/22 16:07]  Kei Mhia: or longer
[2011/11/22 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just in some forms of monotheism 😛
[2011/11/22 16:08]  Kore Jardberg: Gwyneth: right, I should have written “common standard western monotheism”
[2011/11/22 16:08]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): Why what for aliens when you can be so alien to one another also? 😉
[2011/11/22 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Stefano: yep, that kind 🙂
[2011/11/22 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kore: lol
[2011/11/22 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: well you know Tara the phrase ‘only exists in online spaces’ takes on a different meaning when you think how pervasive ‘online’ is/ will be;)
[2011/11/22 16:08]  Kei Mhia: The father, son and holy sprit – thats 3
[2011/11/22 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): gtg
[2011/11/22 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: laborious: now those are words of wisdom 🙂
[2011/11/22 16:08]  Tara Li (tarali.jie): Tru Dat, Extropia…
[2011/11/22 16:08]  Stefano (stephanos.kowalski): well, we can´t argue with that kind
[2011/11/22 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: bye Rhi!
[2011/11/22 16:08]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): pirit! not booz
[2011/11/22 16:08]  Kore Jardberg: Kei: 3 = 1 in CSWC
[2011/11/22 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): bye Extie!
[2011/11/22 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Stefano! That’s why they will be pressing the buttons to deestroy any alien that approaches Earth hehe
[2011/11/22 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: goodbye, Rhi!
[2011/11/22 16:09]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Thanks for hosting This
[2011/11/22 16:09]  Extropia DaSilva: my pleasure
[2011/11/22 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thank God for that. Or the aqliens. Or the AIs 😉 LOL
[2011/11/22 16:09]  Formatting Heliosense: Kore: here is a nice visual explanation of what i mean by “god” returning to its roots as a worship of nature – in a culture that become so incredibly distanced we will look to this “nature” as something we can’t explain but understand to be holy: http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s320x320/320923_10150333353472426_667632425_8375275_1902638561_n.jpg
[2011/11/22 16:10]  Extropia DaSilva: or…godlike alien AI!
[2011/11/22 16:10]  Formatting Heliosense: perhaps 😉
[2011/11/22 16:10]  Pamala Clift: Religion should be used to bring humanity together.. any other use is detrimental..
[2011/11/22 16:10]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): oh AIs .. right … they could already been extinct when they meet us
[2011/11/22 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pamala: agreed 🙂 Now spread the Good Word!
[2011/11/22 16:10]  Formatting Heliosense: fun image to share with people though – i think it reminds people just how detached we are from EARTH
[2011/11/22 16:10]  Formatting Heliosense: doesn’t it?
[2011/11/22 16:10]  Kore Jardberg: Formatting: there’s fundamentally no difference between nature and technology, it’s an arbitrary mostly leftist invention
[2011/11/22 16:10]  Kore Jardberg: A nest is still nature, especially in swiftlet chinese soup
[2011/11/22 16:11]  Lem Skall: when did religion ever brought humanity together?
[2011/11/22 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: yum soup
[2011/11/22 16:11]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): imagine a space ship arrives that only contains dead corpses and very advanced computing equipment
[2011/11/22 16:11]  Ivy Sunkiller: Lem: well, the didn’t crucify jesus alone!
[2011/11/22 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: latest thinking is that ‘contact’ will not be via a radio message but astronomical oservation of a megascale engineering project like a Nivan Ring or a Dyson Sphere.
[2011/11/22 16:11]  Formatting Heliosense: I agree Kore – nothing is “unnatural” but what I’m trying to point out is that our understanding of nature is not organic anymore, but is social construct and socio-political
[2011/11/22 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The road to hell is paved with good intentions”, Lem 🙂
[2011/11/22 16:11]  Pamala Clift: However under that definition religion would not die, but would shift to a unified human construct
[2011/11/22 16:11]  Kei Mhia: I fear that earthly religion has become earthly politics, less about god and more about power.
[2011/11/22 16:11]  Stefano (stephanos.kowalski): religion does not bring humanity TOGETHER. it bring people u
[2011/11/22 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kei: I fear that happened at least 10,000 years ago 😉
[2011/11/22 16:12]  Stefano (stephanos.kowalski): UNDER some religious authority
[2011/11/22 16:12]  Kei Mhia: True
[2011/11/22 16:12]  Pamala Clift: I agree that is how it is used.. and I do not find that functional
[2011/11/22 16:12]  Kore Jardberg: Formatting: ah okay, understood
[2011/11/22 16:12]  Formatting Heliosense: i’m transhumanist/posthumanist and all for serious advances to the human experience by way of technology, but i think there must be a degree of caution exercised – and that we need to stay in touch with ecology
[2011/11/22 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes, Stefano, except for religions that have no authority 😉
[2011/11/22 16:12]  Formatting Heliosense: ecotechnics (look them up)
[2011/11/22 16:12]  Extropia DaSilva: religion is true to people of lesser intelligence, false to people of higher intelligence, and useful to people in power.
[2011/11/22 16:12]  Formatting Heliosense: arcology (look it up)
[2011/11/22 16:12]  Pamala Clift: I am stating that it would have to shift.. if aliens came.. their authority would be undermined
[2011/11/22 16:12]  Kore Jardberg: Formatting: this universe has always been a mess, and it’s not going to improve over time
[2011/11/22 16:13]  Lem Skall: but hey, space travel may actually break up religions: people of different religions will leave Earth and create colonies with a single religion
[2011/11/22 16:13]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): how would we connect with aliens? Inter-Networking probably.
[2011/11/22 16:13]  Formatting Heliosense: we need to not repeat the industrial revolution, but work in a symbiotic relationship with “nature” / technology, or i like to say ‘gaia’
[2011/11/22 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: that’s a very generalistic view of the universe… some of the brightest technological minds have been religious.
[2011/11/22 16:13]  Pamala Clift: connect thru Quantum intanglement.
[2011/11/22 16:13]  Kore Jardberg: Luisa: praying
[2011/11/22 16:13]  Stefano (stephanos.kowalski): religions that have no authority usually doesn´t bring people together either, they kind of isolate everyone
[2011/11/22 16:13]  Kei Mhia: unfortunately true, Extrupia
[2011/11/22 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lem: so many sci-fi books explore exactly that scenario… 🙂
[2011/11/22 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: It was a quote not a view.
[2011/11/22 16:13]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): hand-tentacle shaking first, than diplomacy
[2011/11/22 16:14]  Lem Skall: Gwyn, exactly, and that’s why it’s true
[2011/11/22 16:14]  Extropia DaSilva: should have read ;regarded as’
[2011/11/22 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Stefano: that surely depends quite a lot, Stefano.
[2011/11/22 16:14]  Ivy Sunkiller: and then we can have space wars over who’s Jesus is real
[2011/11/22 16:14]  Kore Jardberg: The funny thing is that we’re not even able to communicate with other animals on the same planet and we’d like to talk to guys which are ever further than that
[2011/11/22 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ivy: yes! Religious war would just become interstellar.
[2011/11/22 16:14]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): a long haired alien wearing sandals
[2011/11/22 16:14]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): LOL ivy P
[2011/11/22 16:14]  Pamala Clift: There you go Kore
[2011/11/22 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kore: another good point!
[2011/11/22 16:14]  Extropia DaSilva: you are not the stefano on all those transhuman FB groups, are you?
[2011/11/22 16:15]  Pamala Clift: I said that earlier but.. *shrugs and smiles*
[2011/11/22 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shh Extie — we are supposed to like our privacy here 😉
[2011/11/22 16:15]  Lem Skall: nothing wrong with religious wars, that’s one way to find which one is the true religion
[2011/11/22 16:15]  Ivy Sunkiller: CSI Extropa on tracks
[2011/11/22 16:15]  Formatting Heliosense: kore: here is a lecture I gave at the Humanity+ conference in NYC last may ….it will clarify my ideas on symbiosis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW4hUPEf5sE
[2011/11/22 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lem: the winner takes it all?
[2011/11/22 16:15]  Kore Jardberg: Pamala: sorry I didn’t read it, don’t cry: my last statement was (c) Copyright Pamala Clift, all rights reserved in the known and unknown world
[2011/11/22 16:15]  Kei Mhia: even if we export only one religion to a new world – it would split into factions.
[2011/11/22 16:16]  Ivy Sunkiller: well, the religion that prevails is the true one, because clearly god wanted it this way 🙂
[2011/11/22 16:16]  Pamala Clift: rolf.. Kore
[2011/11/22 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn talks to an unknown lawyer in the unknown world
[2011/11/22 16:16]  Kore Jardberg: Formatting: okay thanks, I’ll watch it asap
[2011/11/22 16:16]  Formatting Heliosense: kore: here is a lecture i gave from Biosphere 2 that gets more involved with the technologies: http://vimeo.com/32150052
[2011/11/22 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ivy: did you just disprove the existence of God? 🙂
[2011/11/22 16:16]  Formatting Heliosense: one is 10 minutes, one is an hour ツ might just want to go for the 10m inute onw
[2011/11/22 16:16]  Formatting Heliosense: hehe
[2011/11/22 16:16]  Formatting Heliosense: one
[2011/11/22 16:16]  Ivy Sunkiller: Gwyn: I wish…
[2011/11/22 16:16]  Extropia DaSilva: Gwyn FB counts as ‘online’ and therefore is part of my habitat;)
[2011/11/22 16:17]  Kore Jardberg: I will after the talk Formatting
[2011/11/22 16:17]  Kore Jardberg: Otherwise I’ll be lost again
[2011/11/22 16:17]  Kore Jardberg: and steal Pamala’s ideas
[2011/11/22 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ivy: I just meant that there isn’t a lear winner 😉
[2011/11/22 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *clear
[2011/11/22 16:17]  Pamala Clift: *wiggles a finger at Kore*.. Don’t push it. *wink*
[2011/11/22 16:18]  Ivy Sunkiller: Gwyn: yet! Allah will conquer the world!
[2011/11/22 16:18]  Kore Jardberg: Pamala: which finger?
[2011/11/22 16:18]  Pamala Clift: haha.. pick
[2011/11/22 16:18]  Kei Mhia: which Allah?
[2011/11/22 16:18]  Ivy Sunkiller: Kei: now that is the question 😀
[2011/11/22 16:18]  Formatting Heliosense: happens quickly in this room ㋡
[2011/11/22 16:18]  Kore Jardberg: Allah sucks, imho
[2011/11/22 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The one with the more nuclear weapons, Ivy & Kei 🙂
[2011/11/22 16:19]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): seems more like who will have the bigest chunk of the world ATM
[2011/11/22 16:19]  Lem Skall: Kore, death on you!
[2011/11/22 16:19]  Ivy Sunkiller: hehe
[2011/11/22 16:19]  Kore Jardberg: Lem: sorry, I won’t do it again
[2011/11/22 16:19]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): would aliens lend us their technology, I am marvelling about
[2011/11/22 16:19]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): most probably we need to ask them for money
[2011/11/22 16:19]  Ivy Sunkiller: Volcans didn’t
[2011/11/22 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Luh… 🙂
[2011/11/22 16:19]  Ivy Sunkiller: or Vulcans, whatever
[2011/11/22 16:19]  Kei Mhia: It wsa very progressive in it’s time – they are very reactionary now though
[2011/11/22 16:19]  Extropia DaSilva: Alla does not suck. Nor does Allah not suck. Allah does precisely nothing for he does not exist. So says my athetistic religion.
[2011/11/22 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: We might exchange their technology for a few copies of some holy books 😉
[2011/11/22 16:20]  AnthonyE Staryk: G’night Ladies and Gents, thanks for the great discussion.
[2011/11/22 16:20]  Kore Jardberg: Extropia: the concept still exists, I can think Mickey Mouse sucks too
[2011/11/22 16:20]  Kei Mhia: Oh god ! No
[2011/11/22 16:20]  Ivy Sunkiller: oh atheism as a religion is a fun concept
[2011/11/22 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: bye!
[2011/11/22 16:20]  Formatting Heliosense: brb
[2011/11/22 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ivy: atheism is just an abstract concept; just like religion 😉
[2011/11/22 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: He does. Donald told me so.
[2011/11/22 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I’m sure you will like gthat!)
[2011/11/22 16:20]  Kore Jardberg: Gwyneth: how abstract?
[2011/11/22 16:20]  Kei Mhia: don’t trade them religion
[2011/11/22 16:20]  Ivy Sunkiller: Gwyn: it is, but a rather polarised one 🙂
[2011/11/22 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kore: in the sense that we have to come up with it to describe what it means 🙂
[2011/11/22 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: if atheism is a religion, then ‘not playing chess’ is a hobby.
[2011/11/22 16:21]  Lem Skall: I wouldn’t be surprised if some people would start a new religion with the aliens as gods
[2011/11/22 16:21]  Ivy Sunkiller: atheism basically means – Religion: N/A
[2011/11/22 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not for some, Ivy
[2011/11/22 16:21]  Ivy Sunkiller: or “does not apply”
[2011/11/22 16:21]  Kei Mhia: Lem – They would, no qyestion
[2011/11/22 16:21]  Kelian Chayoo: problem with the word athiesm is it is the language of believers
[2011/11/22 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: New? what about the belief held by some that certain ancient religions were actually worshiping aliens that visited earth ages ago?
[2011/11/22 16:22]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): Shhh there is no such thing as athiest .Let the religious wars go on. LOL
[2011/11/22 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: For some, atheism means: “let’s organise together to fight religion in all fronts, using the weapons of reason, logic, and science”
[2011/11/22 16:22]  Ivy Sunkiller: though, on a serious note, it could be actually useful to invent (and I use that word intentionally without quotes) an atheistic religion
[2011/11/22 16:22]  Stefano (stephanos.kowalski): (love this viewer)
[2011/11/22 16:22]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): if they arrive, they will departure some day. could give to them some of the trash to carry off planet
[2011/11/22 16:22]  Ivy Sunkiller: given that morality, and ethics, are all a matter of a social deal
[2011/11/22 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: In fact, some of my close family friends are very engaged in atheism — very serious practicioners 🙂
[2011/11/22 16:22]  Kore Jardberg: Ivy: that would be communism
[2011/11/22 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: what, like the Order Of Cosmic Engineers, Ivy?
[2011/11/22 16:22]  Kei Mhia: how about an agnostic one, I’d join.
[2011/11/22 16:22]  Ivy Sunkiller: Extie: ha!
[2011/11/22 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ivy: what do you mean,m an “atheistic religion”?
[2011/11/22 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: One that has no God?
[2011/11/22 16:23]  Kore Jardberg: Agnostic for what? I can’t believe some people still think some talking snake ruined our life expectancy
[2011/11/22 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or one that promotes the elimination of all religions?
[2011/11/22 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because the first one — religion wiothout God — has already been invented. Long time ago. >Sorry!
[2011/11/22 16:23]  Ivy Sunkiller: Gwyn: yes, more of an organisation of people sharing similar ethical perspectives, or even following the same ethical code that’s set from above by some ruling body (and adjusted as time goes on)
[2011/11/22 16:24]  Extropia DaSilva: No. One in which God is a natural phenomenon, the universe engineered to its most efficient possible computational structure, for instance.
[2011/11/22 16:24]  Kore Jardberg: Superstition is computational consequences of lower level algorithms that you’ll have a hard time to get rid of in a AGI
[2011/11/22 16:24]  Kelian Chayoo: could call me afairy, I don’t believe in them either
[2011/11/22 16:24]  Ivy Sunkiller: eeek
[2011/11/22 16:24]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): ;)~
[2011/11/22 16:24]  Ivy Sunkiller: Aliens abducted Gwyn!
[2011/11/22 16:24]  Kei Mhia: I like the idea of scientist and engineers as god, you may jnee in front of me [ while your down there …]
[2011/11/22 16:24]  Kore Jardberg: Kei: and me, twice
[2011/11/22 16:25]  Lem Skall: I would believe in a religion only if I were God
[2011/11/22 16:25]  Extropia DaSilva: she was an alien. Her hair gave her away. IT was a little TOO red, you know?
[2011/11/22 16:25]  Formatting Heliosense: lol Lem
[2011/11/22 16:25]  Pamala Clift: No.. Scientists are not god.. lol.
[2011/11/22 16:25]  Formatting Heliosense: you ARE god
[2011/11/22 16:25]  Kore Jardberg: Pamala: not yet
[2011/11/22 16:25]  Pamala Clift: God Please Help Me.. Say Humans are NOT the highest form of intellect in the universe…lol
[2011/11/22 16:25]  Ivy Sunkiller: Extie: did you look at her through 3d glasses?
[2011/11/22 16:25]  Kei Mhia: When they ask you if your a god…
[2011/11/22 16:26]  Ivy Sunkiller: god save me from religion!
[2011/11/22 16:26]  Kore Jardberg: lol Ivy
[2011/11/22 16:26]  Formatting Heliosense: hey all – here is a great song to put on in the background during our chat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h9X9IqZvi0
[2011/11/22 16:26]  Formatting Heliosense: ツ
[2011/11/22 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: God might have been a scientist. Could have been a scientist in another universe that created this one. Possible, in principle at least.
[2011/11/22 16:26]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): ones so called god thought the world was flat at one point and spread that threw it’s worshipers if you look at it one way
[2011/11/22 16:26]  Kore Jardberg: God is such a boring concept
[2011/11/22 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: how so?
[2011/11/22 16:26]  Kore Jardberg: Just like christian heavens
[2011/11/22 16:26]  Pamala Clift: We are just reverse engineering the handiwork of existence.
[2011/11/22 16:27]  Kore Jardberg: Because it doesn’t believe in human capability to drive their own destiny
[2011/11/22 16:27]  Ivy Sunkiller: Gwyn is back!
[2011/11/22 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry. God kicked me out.
[2011/11/22 16:27]  Ivy Sunkiller: do you remember any experiments done on you Gwyn?
[2011/11/22 16:27]  Kore Jardberg: wb Gwyn
[2011/11/22 16:27]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): 🙂
[2011/11/22 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, mmy memory was erased, Ivy!
[2011/11/22 16:27]  Formatting Heliosense: i like to think that thought a lot Extie
[2011/11/22 16:27]  Kei Mhia: hi Gwyn,welcome back
[2011/11/22 16:27]  Ivy Sunkiller: did they beam you in light, or were you sucked through a pipe
[2011/11/22 16:27]  Ivy Sunkiller: OH NOES
[2011/11/22 16:27]  Formatting Heliosense: matrix theory i guess
[2011/11/22 16:27]  Extropia DaSilva: probably does, actually. I mean, it sometimes seems like the Bible cn be read to mean anything.
[2011/11/22 16:28]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): spirituality is 100% politics
[2011/11/22 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just sometimes? hehe
[2011/11/22 16:28]  Extropia DaSilva: what about the saying ‘God helps those who help themselves’?
[2011/11/22 16:28]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): Nice poetic touch extropia
[2011/11/22 16:28]  Formatting Heliosense: http://www.ipod.org.uk/reality/reality_simulated_reality.asp
[2011/11/22 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Luh: again, that depends on the meaning of the word for you
[2011/11/22 16:28]  Kore Jardberg: Extropia: yeah, definitely, I find it hilarious how first christians interpretated the torah and prophet’s writings using the septante, which is a greek version, most of their understanding of prophecies was flowed because of the translation
[2011/11/22 16:29]  Extropia DaSilva: well two minutes left so…any concluding thoughts on what SETI success might mean for religion?
[2011/11/22 16:29]  Formatting Heliosense: extie: i think buddhists are very in tune with this idea
[2011/11/22 16:29]  Formatting Heliosense: that god is all of us – and we are god
[2011/11/22 16:29]  Kore Jardberg: Yes! SETI will not save children from starvation, but it provides us a good lauch
[2011/11/22 16:29]  Extropia DaSilva: do you mean flowed or flawed?
[2011/11/22 16:29]  Formatting Heliosense: “if you see the buddha, kill him”
[2011/11/22 16:29]  Kore Jardberg: laugh
[2011/11/22 16:29]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): I’ll take that format 🙂
[2011/11/22 16:29]  Formatting Heliosense: the idea that you do not rely on buddha, but on yourself
[2011/11/22 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Formatting: hardly. Buddhists don’t believe in God aqnd can successfully prove that 😉
[2011/11/22 16:30]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): success for SETI: hallelujah!
[2011/11/22 16:30]  Formatting Heliosense: buddhists certainly have a form of a god though
[2011/11/22 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The conclusion is that some religions will embrace a mass of new converts; others will try to kill them on sight.
[2011/11/22 16:30]  Kore Jardberg: Buddha himself
[2011/11/22 16:30]  Kei Mhia: That would mean if god is us and everything else , then the aliebs are god too.
[2011/11/22 16:30]  Kore Jardberg: They venerate him
[2011/11/22 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Formatting: show me one, and I’ll be happy to explain why he’s not a Buddhist ;(
[2011/11/22 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kore: nah
[2011/11/22 16:31]  Kore Jardberg: Gwyn: oh yes they do
[2011/11/22 16:31]  Formatting Heliosense: yes kei – the idea is that the whole system, whole universe is “GOD” and that god really has become tragically warped away from being a way of understanding the way of the universe
[2011/11/22 16:31]  Pamala Clift: Ty for the discussion reminds me of the think tank.. except in text.. smile..
[2011/11/22 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then they’re not Buddhists 😉
[2011/11/22 16:31]  Pamala Clift: byeee all..
[2011/11/22 16:31]  Extropia DaSilva: Gwyn, how do you explain all the statues of Buddha? More graven images of him than any other person or ‘god’ in existence, with the possible exception of Sheryl Cole.
[2011/11/22 16:31]  Kore Jardberg: Gwyn: sure, I will tell that to these wannabe buddhists
[2011/11/22 16:31]  Kelian Chayoo: unrelated question, Is there a group that I can join for this discussion group?
[2011/11/22 16:32]  Formatting Heliosense: gwyn: using it as a metaphor – and to point out that the way we use the word God is very westernized (in this discussion)
[2011/11/22 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: for the saqme reason there are statues of Sheryln Cole — as a reminder 😉
[2011/11/22 16:32]  Formatting Heliosense: and many different types of buddhism are HEAVY in deity
[2011/11/22 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Formatting: it implies a Creator God, right?
[2011/11/22 16:32]  Kore Jardberg: This is quite a western view on Buddhism you have Gwyn
[2011/11/22 16:32]  Formatting Heliosense: Bon Buddhism, for example – uses prayer and worship of many gods
[2011/11/22 16:32]  Kore Jardberg: Thanks Extropia for the group invitation
[2011/11/22 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: There are no “estern” or “non-westerjn” ways in Buddhism 😛
[2011/11/22 16:32]  Extropia DaSilva: OK My time is up!
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