THINKERS SEP 27 2011: DIZZY’S PLAN

Extropia DaSilva: Welcome to Thinkers!
[2011/09/27 15:33]  ArtCrash Exonar: DA, Tovarich!
[2011/09/27 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: Today the topic is…DIZZY’S PLAN…
[2011/09/27 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: DIZZY’S PLAN: Dizzy Banjo believes Linden Lab’s best hope for succeeding with Second Life involves creating an entirely new product, one geared towards quick and agile mobile experiences. No more pseudonyms crafted through sustained time in immersive roleplaying environments, more like people on a bus playing Angry Birds and continuing real life socialising in online networks.
 But, would a new product designed to be in-tune wwith modern tastes save SL or be the death of it?
[2011/09/27 15:34]  Ivy Sunkiller: Dizzy reminds me of a game I used to play as a kid, you played an egg
[2011/09/27 15:34]  Zobeid Zuma: How exactly does this new product save SL?
[2011/09/27 15:34]  Zobeid Zuma: If it’s a failure, I don’t see it helping SL. And if it’s a success, won’t it merely draw LL’s resources away from SL?
[2011/09/27 15:34]  Ivy Sunkiller: well, firefox saved mozilla 🙂
[2011/09/27 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: THat was codemasters. THey made like a billion dizzy sequals. And it was not even that good to begin with.
[2011/09/27 15:34]  Awendrew Ordinary: with big screens these days.. why would anyone invest more then a few dollars on mobile games
[2011/09/27 15:34]  Lem Skall: so still 3D world?
[2011/09/27 15:35]  Awendrew Ordinary: & turning Second Life™ into imvu sounds backwards
[2011/09/27 15:35]  ArtCrash Exonar: In order to make oranges, we need to change all apples to oranges is the content of Dizzy’s idea. Not really much of an idea, except to say he doesn’t like Second lIfe much.
[2011/09/27 15:35]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): Why not just make the second version and leave this one the way it is
[2011/09/27 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: I guess Lem, Dizzy wants LL to do something that is totally NOT SL.
[2011/09/27 15:35]  Ivy Sunkiller: it’s actually a pretty common paradigm in IT to first create a prototype, test it with userbase, and then write the proper product *from scratch*
[2011/09/27 15:35]  Zobeid Zuma: Keeping in mind, though. . . Some people predicted the iPod (and iPhone, etc.) would draw Apple’s resources away from the Mac. But the Mac platform is doing better than ever.
[2011/09/27 15:35]  Ivy Sunkiller: so using that methodology, SL as we know it is the prototype
[2011/09/27 15:35]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): That seems like a bad decision to me…..SL is unique; there are already swarms of Facebooks clones. “Mobile N-tSL” sounds too much like yet another one of those.
[2011/09/27 15:36]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Not-SL even
[2011/09/27 15:36]  Awendrew Ordinary: the CEO or someone at EA said mobile games are fad
[2011/09/27 15:36]  Lem Skall: well, I don’t care much about SL anymore, especially now that I keep crashing when just logging in and had to turn my graphics to the minimum
[2011/09/27 15:36]  Ivy Sunkiller: what viewer Lem?
[2011/09/27 15:36]  ArtCrash Exonar: I have noticed that a lot of people think SL is a social network, and though it contains a social network in it, it is something different.
[2011/09/27 15:36]  Lem Skall: the SL viewer
[2011/09/27 15:36]  Ivy Sunkiller: version?
[2011/09/27 15:36]  Lem Skall: the new one
[2011/09/27 15:36]  Lem Skall: 3
[2011/09/27 15:36]  Ivy Sunkiller: why don’t you fall back to an older one then?
[2011/09/27 15:37]  ArtCrash Exonar: Lem do you have an NVidia 400 series graphics card?
[2011/09/27 15:37]  Lem Skall: meh, screw it
[2011/09/27 15:37]  Lem Skall: yes Art
[2011/09/27 15:37]  Lem Skall: 460 I think
[2011/09/27 15:37]  ArtCrash Exonar: That is a known issue that will be fixed soon
[2011/09/27 15:37]  Lem Skall: yeah right
[2011/09/27 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: But is it a social network for most people? I mean, is that what most of us do in SL? Meet other people and chat? It is what I do.
[2011/09/27 15:37]  Ivy Sunkiller: Art: with the new profiles and stuff, SL is sort of trying to become social network, or at least social networkized, if that’s a term!
[2011/09/27 15:37]  Zobeid Zuma: Mesh brought a lot of bugs, some of them performance-related, that should get straightened out Real Soon Now.
[2011/09/27 15:37]  Lem Skall: for more than a year they wouldn’t recognize it
[2011/09/27 15:37]  Zobeid Zuma: Of course, in LL’s terms, Real Soon Now could mean several years. . .
[2011/09/27 15:38]  Awendrew Ordinary: the v1 viewers i think are the most stable.. years of work
[2011/09/27 15:38]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Hmmmm…..same carpets
[2011/09/27 15:38]  ArtCrash Exonar: Wandering around a virtual world can be done without any social interaction if you desire. No social network there.
[2011/09/27 15:38]  Zobeid Zuma: hi Arch
[2011/09/27 15:38]  Ivy Sunkiller: mature software is more stable than new one? Really? That never happened before 🙂
[2011/09/27 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: so anyway, I think Dizzy’s plan is LL have a MASSIVE financial success with their new project, and then SL becomes like the hobby they indulge in from the money they make out of NextBigThing.
[2011/09/27 15:38]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): Zob, and Phoenix even will get some Mesh hacked into it .. but let’s not focus on SL technology wise to much
[2011/09/27 15:39]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Socializing in SL and socializing on a social network are also very different
[2011/09/27 15:39]  Lem Skall: btw, a mobile version would be hard for typing, so I guess dizzy is all for voice
[2011/09/27 15:39]  ArtCrash Exonar: Unlimited growth is the strategy of the Cancer cell……
[2011/09/27 15:39]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): technology evangelists MUST now predict handheld devices
[2011/09/27 15:39]  Zobeid Zuma: Extie, I think that’s sort of what happened to There. They got a US Army simulation contract, and “There” became a hobby that sort of puttered along until it finally puttered out.
[2011/09/27 15:39]  Ivy Sunkiller: I don’t want to use SL on a handheld
[2011/09/27 15:39]  Lem Skall: I have an iPad but I wouldn’t be able to type like I’m doing now
[2011/09/27 15:39]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): why not? handheld buzz is en vogue
[2011/09/27 15:40]  Extropia DaSilva: Lem Dizzy does not want LL to make any kind of SL for mobile phones. He is against the development of SL-Lite for phones and iPad.
[2011/09/27 15:40]  Object: Restricted to owner only!
[2011/09/27 15:40]  Ivy Sunkiller: imagine doing BDSM in SL on an iPad while sitting in a train and having some guy looking through your shoulder!
[2011/09/27 15:40]  Rue Moonwall: Hi Every one
[2011/09/27 15:40]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I’d like an SL that runs on a mobile thingie….then I can block out reality, wherever I go! 🙂
[2011/09/27 15:40]  Lem Skall: then I misunderstood
[2011/09/27 15:40]  Extropia DaSilva: hello:)
[2011/09/27 15:40]  Zobeid Zuma: If you’re blocking out reality, why go anywhere?
[2011/09/27 15:40]  ArtCrash Exonar: Let’s face it. All the other Virtual Worlds that aren’t SL like didn’t have a good business plan for income stream, that is why they all died when their investment capital ran out.
[2011/09/27 15:40]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Reality still comes and gets me :\
[2011/09/27 15:40]  Awendrew Ordinary: lots of people on the ios use Palringo to chat.. not enough screen space for fancy graphics like Second Life™
[2011/09/27 15:41]  Extropia DaSilva: He wants LL to make a totally new product that is suited for the mobile platform and people’s tastes which, he says, is not what SL caters for.
[2011/09/27 15:41]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): REality only gets the rl you
[2011/09/27 15:41]  Lem Skall: then what is dizzy’s plan, a separate product in parallel with SL?
[2011/09/27 15:41]  Ivy Sunkiller: more like not enough screen space for the SL UI
[2011/09/27 15:41]  Ivy Sunkiller: Ivy Sunkiller chuckles
[2011/09/27 15:41]  Extropia DaSilva: yes, Lem.
[2011/09/27 15:41]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Not the virtual you
[2011/09/27 15:41]  Lem Skall: ah, then what do we care?
[2011/09/27 15:41]  ArtCrash Exonar: Well I’m all for a totally new product, go for it. But don’t claim it is replacing SL.
[2011/09/27 15:41]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): And certainly not the spirit of you
[2011/09/27 15:41]  Lem Skall: I don’t play angry birds either
[2011/09/27 15:42]  Zobeid Zuma: What was this new product supposed to do again?
[2011/09/27 15:42]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I don’t really see the point….what distinguishes Mobile Not-SL from a Facebook clone?
[2011/09/27 15:42]  Extropia DaSilva: Dizzy does not say, Zo.
[2011/09/27 15:42]  Ivy Sunkiller: the problem with new product method is that it fragmetns userbase
[2011/09/27 15:42]  Lem Skall: Zo, it is supposed to make money I guess so LL can survive and work on SL
[2011/09/27 15:42]  ArtCrash Exonar: Somehow there is this idea out there that sustainability isn’t enough, one needs massive growth. Sustainability and profitability ARE enough actually.
[2011/09/27 15:42]  Zobeid Zuma: We need more to work with, if we’re to *properly* shoot down this idea. 🙂
[2011/09/27 15:42]  Ivy Sunkiller: so while Dizzy’s plan might be to get new users
[2011/09/27 15:42]  Extropia DaSilva: yes Lem. I think that is the point.
[2011/09/27 15:43]  Ivy Sunkiller: reality would be that some people from SL would go for it, and some would stay here
[2011/09/27 15:43]  Ivy Sunkiller: sort of what happened to EQ and EQ2
[2011/09/27 15:43]  Rue Moonwall: Right Art, try do prolifirate the new product, you may have to fall back on it later
[2011/09/27 15:43]  Lem Skall: LL could also start seling crack to sustain SL
[2011/09/27 15:43]  Rue Moonwall: Thats what Sl is all about anyway, new products
[2011/09/27 15:43]  Lem Skall: or is crack passe?
[2011/09/27 15:43]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): Ivy, this division of the userbase is worth than slow decline could ever be
[2011/09/27 15:44]  Awendrew Ordinary: LL’s government already does sell crack to sustain Second Life™
[2011/09/27 15:44]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): lol Lem
[2011/09/27 15:44]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): Lem made a valid point 😀
[2011/09/27 15:44]  ArtCrash Exonar: Seriously, SL isn’t dying. The loss of a certain number of sims totally reflects the world economic downturn. A certain percentage of people can no longer afford their sims.
[2011/09/27 15:44]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): It’s only made of concrete and barbed wire
[2011/09/27 15:44]  Lem Skall: Luh, that crack is passe?
[2011/09/27 15:44]  Ivy Sunkiller: Luh: except you don’t have to start from scratch, you can just keep on improving *this* SL
[2011/09/27 15:44]  Rue Moonwall: Aweson I don’t agree with you, but it does seem like some people here are on crack
[2011/09/27 15:44]  Ivy Sunkiller: which LL is doing, way too slow, but they are
[2011/09/27 15:45]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): but Art! you can’t say that while our “the end is near” cardboards are just readymade
[2011/09/27 15:45]  Extropia DaSilva: Well what about Dizzy’s point that a ‘lite SL’ for iPad or mobile phones is just a waste of time. Is he right?
[2011/09/27 15:45]  Rue Moonwall: no
[2011/09/27 15:46]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): yes and no, this client would open an additional market segment. It’s just about development costs
[2011/09/27 15:46]  Ivy Sunkiller: ipad, or just tablet market in general, isn’t that big
[2011/09/27 15:46]  Ivy Sunkiller: it might get saturated quickly
[2011/09/27 15:46]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): a tiny market segment..
[2011/09/27 15:46]  Rue Moonwall: Will start lite, but it will evolve and be heavy for Ipad
[2011/09/27 15:46]  Zobeid Zuma: Art, another aspect is that land/server tier costs are too high. I know there are reasons for it, but. . . I just discovered another of my favorite sims today has vanished. It keeps happening, and tier cost is the main reason I’m sure.
[2011/09/27 15:46]  Lem Skall: iPad may be ok with voice and a lot of people would do voice but not for the people right here
[2011/09/27 15:47]  Ivy Sunkiller: a proper VW or VR should be, first of all, above device limits
[2011/09/27 15:47]  Ivy Sunkiller: or platform limits
[2011/09/27 15:48]  ArtCrash Exonar: Zobeid: let’s not forget that the sim prices need to be where they are in order for profitability of the company. It isn’t just servers, it is developers that need to be paid.
[2011/09/27 15:48]  Lem Skall: actually, with the HW requirements that LL has been making I can’t see them developing for mobile
[2011/09/27 15:48]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): So sorry….gotta go….just stepped on…..my kitty’s toe
[2011/09/27 15:48]  Rue Moonwall: They have to pay the light bill
[2011/09/27 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: HW?
[2011/09/27 15:48]  Lem Skall: hardware
[2011/09/27 15:48]  Ivy Sunkiller: bad Arch!
[2011/09/27 15:48]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Take care, Arch
[2011/09/27 15:48]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Blessings and Namaste all
[2011/09/27 15:48]  Ivy Sunkiller: dogs are better
[2011/09/27 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: Ok
[2011/09/27 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: Bye!
[2011/09/27 15:48]  ArtCrash Exonar: Isn’t there already a web application out there. I remember testing it a year ago.
[2011/09/27 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: a web app for what?
[2011/09/27 15:49]  Zobeid Zuma: OK, let me put it this way. . . Before LL were scrambling to make SL more like Facebook, they were scrambling to make it more like WWW. But if the cost of a website was anything like the cost of land in SL, the web would never have taken flight the way it did.
[2011/09/27 15:49]  ArtCrash Exonar: Second Life
[2011/09/27 15:49]  ArtCrash Exonar: Second Life running on the web
[2011/09/27 15:49]  Ivy Sunkiller: they were exeprimenting with webgl, weren’t they?
[2011/09/27 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: There is a text only Sl for phones I believe.
[2011/09/27 15:49]  Ivy Sunkiller: or was it some sort of unity3d or otherwise 3rd party plugin?
[2011/09/27 15:50]  ArtCrash Exonar: I remember coming in with several friends on a web browser and it seemed to be quite a decent experience. One needed a higher end computer still to run it though
[2011/09/27 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: Ohhh yeah I think Hamlet blogged about Sl on the web.
[2011/09/27 15:50]  Ivy Sunkiller: Ivy Sunkiller nods
[2011/09/27 15:50]  Lem Skall: so what are we talking about? a light SL or LL whoring themselves to sustain SL?
[2011/09/27 15:50]  Ivy Sunkiller: webgl does come at a cost of performance hit
[2011/09/27 15:50]  Zobeid Zuma: The latter I think, Lem.
[2011/09/27 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: *EXtie’s primary pets the XPS laptop*
[2011/09/27 15:50]  Ivy Sunkiller: native apps are way faster *for now*
[2011/09/27 15:51]  Lem Skall: oh well, LL are already whores
[2011/09/27 15:51]  Rue Moonwall: Thanks for putting us back on track Lem
[2011/09/27 15:51]  Lem Skall: yw Rue
[2011/09/27 15:51]  Lem Skall: 🙂
[2011/09/27 15:51]  ArtCrash Exonar: So is Dizzy’s point that without a phone app for SL, it is doomed?
[2011/09/27 15:51]  Ivy Sunkiller: if they are whores
[2011/09/27 15:51]  Ivy Sunkiller: who’s the pimp?
[2011/09/27 15:51]  Lem Skall: Philip
[2011/09/27 15:51]  ArtCrash Exonar: I can be the pimp!
[2011/09/27 15:51]  ArtCrash Exonar: pimpette
[2011/09/27 15:51]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2011/09/27 15:51]  Ivy Sunkiller: didn’t he quit to get his work caffeteria thingie rolling? 🙂
[2011/09/27 15:51]  Lem Skall: or they are independent whores
[2011/09/27 15:51]  Ivy Sunkiller: oh how cute Art!
[2011/09/27 15:52]  Rue Moonwall: Well not the ll are allready whores part
[2011/09/27 15:52]  Ivy Sunkiller: freelance whores!?
[2011/09/27 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: No. Dizzy’s point is that without something that is massively successful on the mobile phone (NOT SL but a totally different product) SL is unlikely to survive.
[2011/09/27 15:52]  Rue Moonwall: But we are all whores any way
[2011/09/27 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: I am not.
[2011/09/27 15:53]  Lem Skall: ok, now Dizzy may have a point if some people are right that the PC is going to die soon
[2011/09/27 15:53]  Ivy Sunkiller: I don’t even have a phone that can run anything more complex than snake 🙂
[2011/09/27 15:53]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I don’t think something engineered to be a massively successful mobile app is likely to survive, at this point.
[2011/09/27 15:53]  Rue Moonwall: Reason is a whore Extropia
[2011/09/27 15:53]  ArtCrash Exonar: I don’t see Dizzy in SL much, I used to see him here all the time. So how can he even talk about this?
[2011/09/27 15:53]  Zobeid Zuma: heheh. . .
[2011/09/27 15:53]  Ivy Sunkiller: and I can stand behind what Violet said
[2011/09/27 15:53]  Extropia DaSilva: Good job I am so unreasonable then.
[2011/09/27 15:53]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): 🙂
[2011/09/27 15:53]  Lem Skall: hey, I’m not in SL much and I am talking about this
[2011/09/27 15:53]  Extropia DaSilva: YOu only come for Thinkers, eh Lem?
[2011/09/27 15:54]  Lem Skall: yes, Extie 🙂
[2011/09/27 15:54]  ArtCrash Exonar: Some people who are bored with SL, proclaim that it is dead or dying and then leave. I’ve seen that a lot over time.
[2011/09/27 15:54]  Lem Skall: you like pointing that out, don’t you? ;P
[2011/09/27 15:54]  Zobeid Zuma: I take a totally contrarian viewpoint — the *last* thing you want to do is jump on the latest *fashion* trend in an area where you have no experience with an undistinguished me-too product.
[2011/09/27 15:54]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I agree Zo
[2011/09/27 15:54]  Ivy Sunkiller: Art: that happens in games too, it’s vastly subjective and needs to be taken with a whole mine of salt
[2011/09/27 15:55]  Extropia DaSilva: (Lem’s thought processes: ‘Damn that Extropia is cute. Wish that Ari would not grab the seat next to her though. Might challenge him to a duel over her….”)
[2011/09/27 15:55]  Zobeid Zuma: A better idea would be to take what’s different and special about SL — identify its strengths, and work on improving those.
[2011/09/27 15:55]  ArtCrash Exonar: Aren’t new logins at an all time high in the last couple of months?
[2011/09/27 15:55]  Lem Skall: so, like I said, some people say that the PC will die, so Dizzy may have a point there
[2011/09/27 15:55]  Ivy Sunkiller: an individual’s network of connections in SL might degrade over time and you can get an idea that SL is dying
[2011/09/27 15:55]  Lem Skall: Extie, I’m more comlex than that
[2011/09/27 15:55]  Lem Skall: complex
[2011/09/27 15:55]  Ivy Sunkiller: but that’s not very representative, people come and go
[2011/09/27 15:55]  Extropia DaSilva: Is that likely? The PC dying?
[2011/09/27 15:56]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): and some point we should talk about smarphone survival chances
[2011/09/27 15:56]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): which I assume are small
[2011/09/27 15:56]  Lem Skall: well, I think that the PC will take a back seat even if it is not going to die
[2011/09/27 15:56]  Ivy Sunkiller: PC is going to stay here for a while
[2011/09/27 15:56]  Zobeid Zuma: Yes. . . PCs, smartphones and pads are all going to be replaced by the iDot. Try not to lose it. 🙂
[2011/09/27 15:56]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): the deathwish for the PC is just the deathwish for Linux
[2011/09/27 15:56]  Ivy Sunkiller: I don’t see anyone claiming that TV is dying because of computers and internet
[2011/09/27 15:57]  Rue Moonwall: They are not dying, they just evolve into a faster, meaner, cheaper product
[2011/09/27 15:57]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): I don’t see my water cooled systems going away anytime soon.
[2011/09/27 15:57]  Extropia DaSilva: I can definitely see the mobile phone becoming the main computing device for most people. Maybe it already is?
[2011/09/27 15:57]  Ivy Sunkiller: though TV certainly deserves to die!
[2011/09/27 15:57]  ArtCrash Exonar: Cloud computing takes the power away from individuals, so I see it as a bad thing.
[2011/09/27 15:57]  Lem Skall: but for most people a PC is going to be of very little use, just like some people are getting rid of home phones and are keeping only cell phones
[2011/09/27 15:57]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): just have a home server and that is your cloud
[2011/09/27 15:57]  ArtCrash Exonar: Larry Ellison has predicted the death of the pc for ever.
[2011/09/27 15:57]  Rue Moonwall: lol Ivy
[2011/09/27 15:58]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): Larry still alive 🙂
[2011/09/27 15:58]  Zobeid Zuma: Yeah, and they’ve also been trying to push server-oriented computing forever.
[2011/09/27 15:58]  Lem Skall: how many people would run a server? most people just read email and surf the web so mobile devices are going to be all they need
[2011/09/27 15:58]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): thinclients,
[2011/09/27 15:58]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): smartphones
[2011/09/27 15:58]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi Rhi 🙂
[2011/09/27 15:58]  Ivy Sunkiller: heyo Rhi
[2011/09/27 15:58]  ɖʊֆȶ աǟʟӄɛʀ (laborious.aftermath): Hi Rhi
[2011/09/27 15:58]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi, VI
[2011/09/27 15:58]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think the opposite will happen, Lem. Computers will become smaller, much more powerful and much more ubiquitous.
[2011/09/27 15:58]  Zobeid Zuma: Hi Rhi!
[2011/09/27 15:58]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi Ivy
[2011/09/27 15:59]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): thanks for the to, Extie
[2011/09/27 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: BUt that descriptuon just is modern cellular phones, Art.
[2011/09/27 15:59]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi, Zoe
[2011/09/27 15:59]  Ivy Sunkiller: I think you overestimate how many people would get away without a PC
[2011/09/27 15:59]  Rue Moonwall: Hi Rhi
[2011/09/27 15:59]  Lem Skall: having said all that, there will be devices that will be equivalent in power to a PC but they will be mobile and you will connect them to a TV if you want a big display, like for games
[2011/09/27 15:59]  Ivy Sunkiller: and by PC I mean either desktop or laptop
[2011/09/27 15:59]  Lem Skall: hi Rhi
[2011/09/27 15:59]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi, lab
[2011/09/27 15:59]  Zobeid Zuma: The PC/workstation is for creative work, the mobile platform is for consumption.
[2011/09/27 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: Lem makes sense. At least to me.
[2011/09/27 16:00]  Ivy Sunkiller: even for consumption
[2011/09/27 16:00]  ArtCrash Exonar: A tablet is still a pc and a phone on steroids will still be a pc.
[2011/09/27 16:00]  Lem Skall: right, Zo, and most people don’t do creative work
[2011/09/27 16:00]  Zobeid Zuma: And as Gwyn taught us (where is she, I wonder?), SL is a fundamentally creative environment.
[2011/09/27 16:00]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi lem
[2011/09/27 16:00]  Ivy Sunkiller: it is indeed Zo!
[2011/09/27 16:01]  Lem Skall: now, once a tablet is powerful enough, will SL run on it?
[2011/09/27 16:01]  Rue Moonwall: well if you talking about computers your really talking about the microchip, the microchips is not just to view in a monitor, the microchip is making its way into everything
[2011/09/27 16:01]  Extropia DaSilva: Why would it not, Lem?
[2011/09/27 16:01]  ArtCrash Exonar: I am sure that will happen within 2 years Lem
[2011/09/27 16:01]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): so are we talking SL on phones?  Will never happen. lol
[2011/09/27 16:01]  Rue Moonwall: Why even dildos have microchips
[2011/09/27 16:01]  Extropia DaSilva: Oo why not Rhi?
[2011/09/27 16:01]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Rhi has used SL on a phone 🙂
[2011/09/27 16:01]  Lem Skall: the way LL is working, I don’t see that happening soon, not if they can’t make it work for my nVidia card
[2011/09/27 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi rue.  now how would you know about dildos?
[2011/09/27 16:02]  Extropia DaSilva: she is on a phone right now.
[2011/09/27 16:02]  ArtCrash Exonar: As I understand it, third party developers are already working on a browser for tablet devices.
[2011/09/27 16:02]  Rue Moonwall: I don’t, im hear it at the barber shop
[2011/09/27 16:02]  Lem Skall: Art, did they outsource it to India? great
[2011/09/27 16:03]  Ivy Sunkiller: the question is, can you sell SL formula to non-creative non-PC using crowd on tablets and phones?
[2011/09/27 16:03]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): yep. but am as blind as a bat
[2011/09/27 16:03]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2011/09/27 16:03]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): but its only a matter of time before There are viewers for phones
[2011/09/27 16:03]  ArtCrash Exonar: Fortunately Indian computer geeks are much smarter than Indian boiler room phone answerers…. heh
[2011/09/27 16:03]  Zobeid Zuma: Yeah, the other thing to remember about LL is that their programming team is. . . . I’m trying to think of a polite way to put this. . .
[2011/09/27 16:03]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): do we define PC as “Personal Computer” or is t “Beige Colored hunky Case”
[2011/09/27 16:03]  Rue Moonwall: The question is, what is the next portable comunication divice?
[2011/09/27 16:03]  Lem Skall: Ivy, what is the SL formula? there isn’t just one SL experience
[2011/09/27 16:04]  Ivy Sunkiller: that seems to me like selling star trek t-shirts on wembley during UEFA championships, whatever they are called
[2011/09/27 16:04]  Zobeid Zuma: Let’s say they’ve already got their hands full trying to straighten out SL and their viewer. And they’ve been working on that for a *long* time already.
[2011/09/27 16:04]  Ivy Sunkiller: Lem: SL formula is the user generated content, I’m not talking about the experience
[2011/09/27 16:04]  Rue Moonwall: any way this is going to be the century of robots, I just heard that robots have eyes! scaning divices
[2011/09/27 16:04]  ArtCrash Exonar: I foresee a headselt that contains mixed reality to be one of the things that will show up in a few years.
[2011/09/27 16:04]  Lem Skall: and I don’t think that going for mesh is in the right direction for tablets
[2011/09/27 16:04]  ArtCrash Exonar: headset
[2011/09/27 16:05]  Rue Moonwall: Now robots even have eyes
[2011/09/27 16:05]  Rue Moonwall: scanners
[2011/09/27 16:05]  Extropia DaSilva: To what extent would having a viewr that is stable and easy to understand help SL gain super mass market status?
[2011/09/27 16:05]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Rue, a phone would be it, at least till we get implants
[2011/09/27 16:05]  mayitagp: hola
[2011/09/27 16:05]  ArtCrash Exonar: Google will be the first adopter of mixed reality headsets I predict.
[2011/09/27 16:05]  Ivy Sunkiller: does it *need* super mass market to begin with?
[2011/09/27 16:05]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I don’t think SL will ever have mass appeal; it’s sort of the opposite of what most people want.
[2011/09/27 16:06]  mayitagp: hola
[2011/09/27 16:06]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): We are the last outpost of the Scary Frontier Internet here
[2011/09/27 16:06]  ArtCrash Exonar: Violet, I think you are right, and our own Gwyn has written on this extensively.
[2011/09/27 16:06]  Lem Skall: I’m not following SL news anymore, is SL in trouble actually?
[2011/09/27 16:06]  Extropia DaSilva: OO I have heard Sony have an amazing pair of 3D VR glasses coming out. Stupendous hi-def 3D with a screen that seems to be 150″ so I hear.
[2011/09/27 16:06]  Awendrew Ordinary: the name Second Life™ turns people off right off the hop.. at least the ones happy with 1st life
[2011/09/27 16:06]  Zobeid Zuma: If they could just make a great experience for all the people who *like* SL and hold onto them, they’d do OK.
[2011/09/27 16:06]  ArtCrash Exonar: SL is NOT in trouble according to Rod Humble, Lem.
[2011/09/27 16:06]  Ivy Sunkiller: the last outpost of the pseudonymous pervs!
[2011/09/27 16:06]  ArtCrash Exonar: According to Hamlet Au, SL IS in trouble.
[2011/09/27 16:06]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2011/09/27 16:06]  Lem Skall: yeah, but I wouldn’t trust what he says
[2011/09/27 16:06]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): lol Ivy, yeah 😛
[2011/09/27 16:06]  Extropia DaSilva: THat is me, Ivy:)
[2011/09/27 16:06]  Jayda Ferrentino: SL is always in trouble
[2011/09/27 16:07]  Lem Skall: what Humble says
[2011/09/27 16:07]  Jayda Ferrentino: people are always saying that
[2011/09/27 16:07]  Rue Moonwall: Sl “IS” a wonderfull, dynamic, personal, way to learn almost anything
[2011/09/27 16:07]  Lem Skall: not that I would really trust what Hamlet says either
[2011/09/27 16:07]  ArtCrash Exonar: Humble points to the growth in economic transactions in virtual goods even with this economy.
[2011/09/27 16:07]  Lem Skall: Lem Skall is gagging
[2011/09/27 16:07]  Ivy Sunkiller: people are always saying many thing, truth is where the truth is, not where most people think it is
[2011/09/27 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: If you are satisfied with 1st Life it just goes to show what little imagination you have, and therefore what little you would bring to SL. So thank you for staying away:)
[2011/09/27 16:07]  Ivy Sunkiller: many things*
[2011/09/27 16:08]  Awendrew Ordinary: lots of universities are switching to opensim.. it has near 0 overhead once they have the servers and the bandwidth already
[2011/09/27 16:08]  Jayda Ferrentino: i’ve seen so many users who are of 2011/2010…with economic recession going on i think people have more time for this stuff
[2011/09/27 16:08]  ArtCrash Exonar: There is one truth about SL that counts. and that is: SL makes a profit. Therefore it will survive. and it will survive as long as that is true.
[2011/09/27 16:08]  Lem Skall: 0 overhead but what do they use it FOR?
[2011/09/27 16:08]  Rue Moonwall: Talk all the goobelie goog, just let sl shot down for a week, and you all will come back begging LL to come back
[2011/09/27 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, if You’re an augmentist, you can be happy with SL and fl
[2011/09/27 16:09]  Ivy Sunkiller: I don’t know a single university that would use SL in Poland anyway. Since when universities using something is a vector of success?
[2011/09/27 16:09]  Awendrew Ordinary: if people have more times to play video games.. 1st life isnt gonna get any better.. china will still be out manufacturing everyone else that much easier
[2011/09/27 16:09]  Extropia DaSilva: Well Hamlet seems to disagree with you Art. He keeps citing statistics that shows the revenue is being eaten away. Something to do with not enough people renting ;land I think.
[2011/09/27 16:09]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Art, Yes.  SL isn’t for everyone, but what profitable product is?
[2011/09/27 16:09]  Rue Moonwall: Look, this is a wonderfull converstation for SL, at the very least it helps SL reconsile its assets, just that along was well worth the effort!
[2011/09/27 16:10]  Zobeid Zuma: So. . . Humor me for a moment, and I’ll present Zobeid’s easy three-step plan for SL success. 🙂
[2011/09/27 16:10]  Zobeid Zuma: 1. Fix the user interface (especially inventory management).
[2011/09/27 16:10]  Extropia DaSilva: But then other people reply with statistis that show he is wrong, so who knows what is going on?
[2011/09/27 16:10]  Zobeid Zuma: 2. Find a way to reduce tier/server costs!
[2011/09/27 16:10]  Zobeid Zuma: 3. Make SL more like SL — work to improve what’s unique about it.
[2011/09/27 16:10]  Zobeid Zuma: 4. Bring back gambling!
[2011/09/27 16:10]  Jayda Ferrentino: yeah i agree with all 3 of those
[2011/09/27 16:10]  Lem Skall: 4. find a purpose
[2011/09/27 16:10]  Jayda Ferrentino: hahah 4
[2011/09/27 16:10]  Rue Moonwall: At the very least we have help LL reconcile their assets in this conversation, so yes this conversation helped imensarly
[2011/09/27 16:10]  Ivy Sunkiller: Extie: it’s sort of a problem like the taxes in the flesh world, raising the taxes doesn’t always increase income to the budget, sometimes it reduces it. There is no saying that if LL reduced land prices they wouldn’t get actually *more* money.
[2011/09/27 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: and what is that, Zo? I mean, in reference to #3
[2011/09/27 16:11]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): YES!! 99% of my disenchantment with SL is my inventory being too big to drag things over.
[2011/09/27 16:11]  ArtCrash Exonar: We should talk about China in a future session. It is interesting what is starting to happen there with skilled labor shortages resulting in loss of contracts.
[2011/09/27 16:11]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well. We’ll adapt, no matter what happens. Enjoy it for what it is while it lasts
[2011/09/27 16:11]  Awendrew Ordinary: sl got popular in its own sense because it was new.. now its not new, its like pepsi.. they just care about having the same old taste.. i think the real innovators have moved to places like osgrid for mass amounts of land and playing around
[2011/09/27 16:11]  Zobeid Zuma: OK, an example of #3. . . Improve LSL and other features that creaters can use to create their own games (let’s say RPG or adventure type games) inside SL.
[2011/09/27 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: OK Art, we will, IM me a synopsis of the topic.
[2011/09/27 16:12]  Rue Moonwall: brb
[2011/09/27 16:12]  Ivy Sunkiller: Awendrew: innovation is useless if there are no people to use it.
[2011/09/27 16:12]  Rue Moonwall: okay back
[2011/09/27 16:12]  Extropia DaSilva: yay
[2011/09/27 16:12]  Ivy Sunkiller: sort of like “I made this awesome thing on my opensim, it sits on a pendrive, it’s so awesome, *if only someone else could see it*”
[2011/09/27 16:13]  ArtCrash Exonar: Open sim totally relies on Linden Lab developers to exist.
[2011/09/27 16:13]  Zobeid Zuma: Maybe some more powerful LSL prims that only work when the script is in a parcel belonging to its creator. (to prevent griefing)
[2011/09/27 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: does it, Art?
[2011/09/27 16:13]  ArtCrash Exonar: According to the developers I talk to Extie.
[2011/09/27 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh.
[2011/09/27 16:13]  Awendrew Ordinary: who cares.. nobody cares about seeing other people’s builds 9 times out of 10.. everyone is on there little plot of land hoping they will get visitors
[2011/09/27 16:13]  Rue Moonwall: what happen next year, when some coporations developes a SUPER MICROCHIP! will any one be able to run there onw Sl?
[2011/09/27 16:13]  ArtCrash Exonar: There is no money to pay developers over there.
[2011/09/27 16:14]  ArtCrash Exonar: So they feed off developments in sl.
[2011/09/27 16:14]  Rue Moonwall: A totally revolutionary super microchip
[2011/09/27 16:14]  Zobeid Zuma: There are some sims that attract lots of people.
[2011/09/27 16:14]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Yeah, I think OpenSim is the way to go but it’s been Children Playing Alone in Sandboxes forever
[2011/09/27 16:14]  Extropia DaSilva: yeah Seren keeps asking me to join her OpenSim.
[2011/09/27 16:14]  Ivy Sunkiller: Awendrew: I care about other people’s builds, most of them are crap though *chuckles*
[2011/09/27 16:14]  Zobeid Zuma: And then those sims often have to survive on tip jars, because they don’t sell anything as such.
[2011/09/27 16:15]  Rue Moonwall: Ah is there a tip jar here? If so let me know when is full so I can take it home
[2011/09/27 16:15]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): Tier is to low .. it should be that expensive so we need to cuddle into 5~10 sims total grid space
[2011/09/27 16:15]  ArtCrash Exonar: The Open sim worlds that actually work have had to increase their tier prices a lot since their beginnings.
[2011/09/27 16:15]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): 😛
[2011/09/27 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: I like the idea that Seren and I can still be together if Sl disappears. But so long as it is here my time is better spent here than somewhere else.
[2011/09/27 16:15]  ArtCrash Exonar: It is just a fact of life that someone has to pay for costs.
[2011/09/27 16:16]  Zobeid Zuma: I agree Art, but I can’t help thinking another business model might be more supportive.
[2011/09/27 16:16]  ArtCrash Exonar: I don’t think you have to worry about SL dying anytime soon, Extie.
[2011/09/27 16:16]  Ivy Sunkiller: paying for the costs is ok
[2011/09/27 16:17]  Ivy Sunkiller: but there are different ways to do payment
[2011/09/27 16:17]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think a future VR world business model would be a 10 percent tax on sales of virtual goods.
[2011/09/27 16:17]  Extropia DaSilva: I am glad. IT would be tragic. How many person-hours have the Sl community put into making its content?
[2011/09/27 16:17]  Lem Skall: what do you people think though, could LL just give up on SL at some point even if they can sustain it but they realize that it will not go anywahere?
[2011/09/27 16:17]  Zobeid Zuma: I was just pondering something like that. Although, it would need to be on all transactions wouldn’t it? Not just ‘goods’.
[2011/09/27 16:18]  Ivy Sunkiller: Art: that does sound reasonable, but you’d have to separate sales from person A giving person B an item, and person B giving person A a sum of money 🙂
[2011/09/27 16:18]  ArtCrash Exonar: Not money transfers Zob, I don’t think.
[2011/09/27 16:18]  Ivy Sunkiller: so yes, it would require to be on all transfers as Zo said
[2011/09/27 16:18]  Extropia DaSilva: I guess they could pull the plug, Lem. Is there something in the user terms that say they can if theuy choose?
[2011/09/27 16:18]  Lem Skall: Extie, no, there isn’t
[2011/09/27 16:19]  Zobeid Zuma: I doubt they’ll “give up” as long as they’re turning some sort of profit. However. . . Their investors are in a bit of dilemma. It’s not a start-up anymore, really. But they haven’t found a buyer. . .
[2011/09/27 16:19]  ArtCrash Exonar: LL does take aroudn 3 percent for changing dollars to lindens though, right?
[2011/09/27 16:19]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I have to go….take care, everyone 🙂
[2011/09/27 16:19]  ArtCrash Exonar: bye Violet!
[2011/09/27 16:19]  Lem Skall: Zo, exactly
[2011/09/27 16:19]  Extropia DaSilva: byeee
[2011/09/27 16:19]  Jayda Ferrentino: bye
[2011/09/27 16:19]  Ivy Sunkiller: they also take a percetnage from marketplace sales
[2011/09/27 16:19]  Zobeid Zuma: Art, I was actually thinking of gambling again. . . Which I guess won’t come back unless the law changes, but there has actually been some discussion of that.
[2011/09/27 16:19]  Lem Skall: and at some point people will not be interested in working for LL
[2011/09/27 16:19]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think when you announce you are going, etiquette means you need to wait for responses for a bit, no? hahaha I try to do that myself.
[2011/09/27 16:20]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I think as long as people need SL and support it, it will make a profit, and if that ceases to be the case, either people no longer need it, or something better has come along.
[2011/09/27 16:20]  Awendrew Ordinary: if ll allows the real gambling again they’ll have to start paying off the mob to stay in business
[2011/09/27 16:20]  Ivy Sunkiller: SL should be divided into rings
[2011/09/27 16:20]  Ivy Sunkiller: ring 1: gamblers
[2011/09/27 16:20]  Ivy Sunkiller: ring 2: whores
[2011/09/27 16:20]  ArtCrash Exonar: Are we who make stuff really working for Linden Lab, Lem?
[2011/09/27 16:20]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): In other words, “Don’t worry;  be happy.”
[2011/09/27 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: I hate to log off before someone acknowledges my departure, Art.
[2011/09/27 16:20]  Ivy Sunkiller: and so on
[2011/09/27 16:20]  Zobeid Zuma: Haha!
[2011/09/27 16:20]  Lem Skall: Art, but WE need also people working for LL
[2011/09/27 16:20]  Rue Moonwall: Zobeid, the 3 most profitatble activities in life are Gambiling, prostitution and drugs
[2011/09/27 16:21]  Zobeid Zuma: Ivy, remember that sim today that turned up missing? When I teleported to the LM, I found myself in a sex club. 😛
[2011/09/27 16:21]  Zobeid Zuma: And there were *lots* of avs in there.
[2011/09/27 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: OO you could have invited me, Zo.
[2011/09/27 16:21]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zoe, uh, huh. Likely story.
[2011/09/27 16:21]  ArtCrash Exonar: Sex was the first killer app for Second Life, no?
[2011/09/27 16:21]  Ivy Sunkiller: there are few good sex clubs 🙂
[2011/09/27 16:22]  ArtCrash Exonar: Now the killer app for sl is clothes and body parts shopping.
[2011/09/27 16:22]  Ivy Sunkiller: in fact, the best ones I know aren’t heterosexual, to put it this way
[2011/09/27 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: One of the first, Art. I seem to recall Hamlet’s book saying the first really successful content provider made sex furniture.
[2011/09/27 16:22]  Ivy Sunkiller: and no, not lesbian either
[2011/09/27 16:23]  Ivy Sunkiller: clothes are getting better with mesh
[2011/09/27 16:23]  Ivy Sunkiller: mesh boots are way easier than prim boots
[2011/09/27 16:23]  Ivy Sunkiller: it’s just alpha layer and mesh object
[2011/09/27 16:23]  Ivy Sunkiller: one mesh object for both boots at once
[2011/09/27 16:24]  ArtCrash Exonar: I was out shopping and overheard a couple of avatars talking about how long it took them to go through $20 US dollars and they were saying a day or two or at most two weeks. One admitted to spending $100 US a month shopping.
[2011/09/27 16:24]  Awendrew Ordinary: if only I cared that much about virtual clothes
[2011/09/27 16:24]  Ivy Sunkiller: and it fixes avatar z-axis on it’s own
[2011/09/27 16:24]  Rue Moonwall: So gambling and sex and is indirect implications are the way to go?
[2011/09/27 16:24]  Ivy Sunkiller: Awendrew: make a female avatar
[2011/09/27 16:24]  Awendrew Ordinary: i usually dont even bother fixing my shoes so my feet dont stick out
[2011/09/27 16:24]  Zobeid Zuma: I got a pair of mesh boots. I’m surprised to see very few on the marketplace yet, though. It seems there are only a small number of people making mesh clothes, and a lot of vendors re-texturing them for sale.
[2011/09/27 16:24]  Rue Moonwall: Why is it the all the fun things are always illega?
[2011/09/27 16:25]  Rue Moonwall: Iliegal
[2011/09/27 16:25]  Ivy Sunkiller: Rue: sex has been the requirement of this race surviving on this planet so far
[2011/09/27 16:25]  Jayda Ferrentino: lolll more thrill to it
[2011/09/27 16:25]  Ivy Sunkiller: also, sex is not illegal
[2011/09/27 16:25]  ArtCrash Exonar: Mesh will be more common, but right now people are still learning the SL conversion stuff. Which is not trivial.
[2011/09/27 16:25]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi jayda
[2011/09/27 16:25]  Ivy Sunkiller: unless you are like 10yo
[2011/09/27 16:25]  Extropia DaSilva: Right Ivy. I should hate to be a guy avvie. Like, you walk into any shop and it is women’s clothers everywhere oh and a token guy’s clothes over there in the corner in between even more women’s clothes:)
[2011/09/27 16:25]  Awendrew Ordinary: playing poker with other avatars was tonnes of fun when it was allowed in sl.. then once it became underground… you’d get the hosts of the tables having like over half the people playing for them.. but if you played decent u can still win
[2011/09/27 16:26]  Rue Moonwall: yes, Ivy, the most continues activity in this planet is sex, right under the seat your onw there is about 2 billions micro insect fucking! this is the fuckeners planet in the galaxy
[2011/09/27 16:26]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): guys Don’t care that much about clothes anyway. Why some wear shoes where their toes stick out. Can you believe it?
[2011/09/27 16:27]  Extropia DaSilva: Hmmm…maybe the SL app for phones should ba Tringo? Remember that?
[2011/09/27 16:27]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): bye vi
[2011/09/27 16:27]  Ivy Sunkiller: microbes don’t fuck, only multicellurar organisms that have genders can 🙂
[2011/09/27 16:27]  Zobeid Zuma: I mostly remember being annoyed because you couldn’t throw a rock in SL without hitting a casino. :/
[2011/09/27 16:27]  Lem Skall: I don’t wear any shoes and, Rhi, that’s ALL you’re wearing
[2011/09/27 16:27]  ArtCrash Exonar: Extie, there are a lot more guy shops now. And they can be found with the men’s fashion blogs. Here is one: http://slipsters.wordpress.com/
[2011/09/27 16:27]  ArtCrash Exonar: a funny one
[2011/09/27 16:27]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2011/09/27 16:28]  Zobeid Zuma: Yeah, I still think Rhi has it backwards. If I were going to start getting rid of clothes, the shoes would be the first to go. 🙂
[2011/09/27 16:28]  Extropia DaSilva: Ok. BUt it does not refute the fundamental truth that girlie avatars are just better:)
[2011/09/27 16:28]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): lem,  you wouldn’t want me to take my shoes off? I’d be naked.
[2011/09/27 16:28]  ArtCrash Exonar: More fun for sure!
[2011/09/27 16:28]  Lem Skall: girlie? isn’t that offensive?
[2011/09/27 16:29]  Lem Skall: ph baby, yeah, take them off
[2011/09/27 16:29]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): lem not if a girl says it.lol
[2011/09/27 16:29]  Extropia DaSilva: Anything is offensive if you want it to be, Lem.
[2011/09/27 16:29]  ArtCrash Exonar: boyees?
[2011/09/27 16:29]  Extropia DaSilva: so anyway not much time left….what do we think of Dizzy’s plan? Is it a plausible way to save SL?
[2011/09/27 16:29]  Awendrew Ordinary: go to the zindra continent.. not much has changed other then casinos missing.. at least when you hit a casino you could stop laughing if it had a few good games
[2011/09/27 16:29]  ArtCrash Exonar: Nice retort Extie! haha
[2011/09/27 16:30]  Ivy Sunkiller: so a girlie saying girlie is like a nigger saying nigger?
[2011/09/27 16:30]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): You’re *not* going to get me to take my shoes off, Len. Live with it. lol
[2011/09/27 16:30]  Rue Moonwall: Zobeid, well you have it backwards, out of 200,000 years homosapiens have been in this planet about 189,000 years of that we been naked, nakeness is more natural, is how we where born
[2011/09/27 16:30]  Ivy Sunkiller: you learn a new thing every day!
[2011/09/27 16:30]  Zobeid Zuma: Maybe Dizzy could explain it in more detail in a way that would make sense. But I’m not getting it.
[2011/09/27 16:30]  Rue Moonwall: cloth is realitive modern in homosapiens
[2011/09/27 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: I invited him along Zo, but he did not show:(
[2011/09/27 16:31]  Jayda Ferrentino: i think you’d dress up in winter
[2011/09/27 16:31]  Lem Skall: I think dizzy is implying more than just one thing and he is right in some things
[2011/09/27 16:31]  ArtCrash Exonar: To sum up, I think Dizzy Banjo has made an assumption not based in fact, and that is that SL is dying. He has also made the false assumption that SL is a social network. Sooooooo With false premises come false conclusions. The end. haha
[2011/09/27 16:31]  Ivy Sunkiller: I think dizzy is dizzy about what SL is
[2011/09/27 16:31]  Ivy Sunkiller: or
[2011/09/27 16:31]  Rue Moonwall: We seem to be going back to the original self, naked again
[2011/09/27 16:31]  Ivy Sunkiller: WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF SL!
[2011/09/27 16:31]  Extropia DaSilva: TO GIVE ME LIFE!
[2011/09/27 16:31]  Jayda Ferrentino: a 2nd one…
[2011/09/27 16:31]  Rue Moonwall: fussion
[2011/09/27 16:32]  Zobeid Zuma: SL is a playground!
[2011/09/27 16:32]  Ivy Sunkiller: the purpose of SL is..!
[2011/09/27 16:32]  ArtCrash Exonar: We live to serve Exite! who hoooooo!
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One Response to THINKERS SEP 27 2011: DIZZY’S PLAN

  1. Dizzy Banjo says:

    Sorry I couldnt make it along to the discussion. Ive read through the logs and it sounds like it was fascinating and thorough.

    I’d love to come along to another discussion and talk more, but for now I have made some notes while reading the logs. They may be in slightly haphazard order, but I hope they make sense and clear up some points I was trying to make :

    I’m not suggesting Linden create a virtual world for the web or iOS – that is a much more suitable product concept for the desktop / possibly laptop and strong network connection. Even then its very difficult with SLs scope. It also relies on a certain user behaviour, which is less common now than at SLs inception.

    I propose to take advantage of social landscape and technology that exists in mobile now. This would result in a different product. I think it could feature ‘virtual’ elements in some way, it could also possibly feature pseudonyms or alternate identities. Who knows – its a space of opportunity.

    I don’t propose that SL users should necessarily want to use this product, and it shouldn’t try to cater to that market. I think Second Life should cater to that market. I don’t think it would suck users from SL, because SL users have different behavioural patterns to mainstream mobile users, which is what this product would be aimed at. I think SL should continue to cater for its own unique, but relatively niche market, but it has a long way to go to deliver its original vision within good performance standards.

    I don’t actually know if SL is in decline. I don’t think anyone does really apart from senior LL employees and board members. My suggestion is more about creating increased revenue to fund faster, more effective development of both a new product and SL. I think in the long run, this speed of development will be critical to SL’s survival, and it achieving its potential – there is a very long way to go.

    I don’t believe a lite SL for mobile would necessarily work. I think there are problems with immersion due to screensize, interaction method ( your own real body covers the screen and possibly your avatar ) and location of use and awareness of surroundings ( I think mobile use cases are more linked to physical location than desktop )

    However many light ‘virtual’ worlds ( loosely defined – like Farmville or The Sims Social or Adventure World ) which are heavily gameified do make a lot of money so I can see the possibility that Linden may take this route. I personally don’t think that this route is interesting and that Linden could create something much more worthwhile if they take a creative view of the opportunities offered by these devices. Especially all the sensors they contain.

    I would make it clear – what I am suggesting Linden do, cannot be explained by a comparison to an existing service. I am not suggesting they make a Facebook clone, or a Zynga clone, or a Playfish clone, or a Twitter clone, or a Angry Birds clone, or to imitate anything on either the desktop, web or iOS. I am suggesting they do something new. I hope that at its heart, it would be a creative enabling technology, just like SL.

    This would be how SL was in 2003. A realtime totally user generated world in-which objects had real value. That was totally different and new then. I’m suggesting Linden create something totally different and new now.

    As for the validity of my opinion on Second Life. I would hope that 6 years of experience in Second Life counts for something. Its true that I am not in here as much as I would like to be. This is due to the commitments of my work doing things like Inception the app. However, I would say that I do not see a hard line between the types of work I do and the experiences I have. In and out of SL / virtual worlds – They both contain virtual elements, they both contain interaction, they both contain enhanced forms of perception and identity. To me, virtual worlds have simply evolved to include many kinds of augmented virtual interactions.

    Btw – I think Zobeid Zuma’s first 3 points of success for SL are great – but they are difficult and expensive to implement. At this rate they will take a very long time. As LL have already announced a mobile project, my suggestion is to make it unique and relevant to todays market and tech. That way it will 1. be interesting 2. make money and 3. benefit SL too

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