Zobeid Zuma at Thinkers

Extropia DaSilva: GENDER ATTITUDES TO FRIENDSHIP: Do men and women place equal value on friendship? Aparrently not. Studies have shown that men’s relationship with other men is superficial and shallow, with even close friends rarely sharing the depth of disclosure a woman commonly has with other women. What is the reason for this difference in attitudes?
[2011/08/30 15:34]  Jamie Marlin: I know. I shall try to avoid being rational and restrict myself to chatting about shoes from now on
[2011/08/30 15:34]  Zobeid Zuma: I could get into shoes as a topic. 🙂
[2011/08/30 15:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shoes!
[2011/08/30 15:34]  ArtCrash Exonar: Is shallow defined as not sharing emotional content?
[2011/08/30 15:34]  Jamie Marlin: Well
[2011/08/30 15:35]  Laborious Aftermath: how big of a group was that stat taken from ? Do you know?
[2011/08/30 15:35]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Shoes, Blanicks, or something like that
[2011/08/30 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have a problem with this topic. How can I express an opinion without being biased? lol
[2011/08/30 15:35]  Jamie Marlin: I agree. I think that is an unfair and slanted definition of what a deep relationship means
[2011/08/30 15:36]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Gwyn, dearest love, to express an opinion is the definition of bias
[2011/08/30 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Arch!
[2011/08/30 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2011/08/30 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I’d need a bit more background on those studies…
[2011/08/30 15:36]  Jamie Marlin: If we want to discuss whether men and women handle friendship differently, I am all for it. But lets dismiss the idea that male friendsips are ‘shallow’ right away.
[2011/08/30 15:36]  ArtCrash Exonar: I have observed that it cuts both ways, women pay more attention to emotional content of speech but get offended easily. Men ignore emotional content of speach but give each other a bad time on purpose as a sign of bonding.
[2011/08/30 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn points at Jamie’s request for a definition of “deep relationship”
[2011/08/30 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, agreed.
[2011/08/30 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I definitely agree that relationships *are* different, and so they are between male/female
[2011/08/30 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and thankfully so!)
[2011/08/30 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning that my male friends behave differently towards me than my female friends, for example
[2011/08/30 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I’m sure the reverse is true.
[2011/08/30 15:37]  Jamie Marlin: *agrees*
[2011/08/30 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: … not that SL is a good way to measure things lol
[2011/08/30 15:37]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): We were trained to do that by our mothers, Gwyn
[2011/08/30 15:38]  Nicolette Marx: In my experience, male friends tend to keep a secret better, and are more loyal.
[2011/08/30 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, I’m unsure about the gender of half the people in my friends list!
[2011/08/30 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arch: blame the *mother*, right!
[2011/08/30 15:38]  ArtCrash Exonar: ha ha
[2011/08/30 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nicolette: but when they hurt, they hurt deeply 🙂
[2011/08/30 15:38]  Nicolette Marx: But yes, they don’t tend to discuss their feelings, and have to go every little detail of where a relationship went wrong a billion times etc.
[2011/08/30 15:38]  Nicolette Marx: Oh, yes. I know that!
[2011/08/30 15:39]  Jamie Marlin: Gwen? Does it matter? In a way, we are talking about stereotypes here. And people in SL choose the stereotype they want to define themselves with
[2011/08/30 15:39]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): It is weird being a gay male with straight tendencies
[2011/08/30 15:39]  Nicolette Marx: For the most part, they do not seem to want to talk about it. Whether that is biology/enviornment or both, dunno.
[2011/08/30 15:39]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think men give more ‘space’ to their friendships and expect less from them. That doesn’t make the friendships more trivial however.
[2011/08/30 15:40]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): I really wonder about male and female
[2011/08/30 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Social constructs 🙂
[2011/08/30 15:40]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): And if there is meaning there
[2011/08/30 15:40]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Men tend to get chastised for sharing their feelings too often; so I’m guessing that the differences are pretty much 90% social/cultural.
[2011/08/30 15:40]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): But I say that about everything.
[2011/08/30 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, there is some meaning; it makes conversation easier
[2011/08/30 15:41]  ArtCrash Exonar: Studying gender interactions is one of my SL hobbies. There are more differences than I at first realized in fem/fem male/male relationships.
[2011/08/30 15:41]  Laborious Aftermath: it’s all about the individual and their upbringing and imprinting as they grow. Everyone has difrent levels of relationships with others
[2011/08/30 15:41]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): It would be easy at the moment to retreat into my snow panther self
[2011/08/30 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, good point, Violet. Now I wonder…. this “chastising for sharing feelings” is relatively new in our history as homo sapiens. It was an invention of the Victorian age. I wonder if men in the 17th and 18th centuries, when they were fully allowed to express their feelings (even more so than us!), would engage in “deeper friendships”
[2011/08/30 15:41]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Silent
[2011/08/30 15:41]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Pads on snow
[2011/08/30 15:42]  ArtCrash Exonar: Oh I think repression of emotion has a LONG history in men. It is how they deal with war.
[2011/08/30 15:42]  Zobeid Zuma: I think part of the problem may be the way of measuring the depth of friendship. . . .
[2011/08/30 15:43]  Jamie Marlin: I know waaaay too many people who are transgendered to believe that gender roles are completely social *or* completely defined by biological gender. But we aren’t supposed to be discussing gender, right?
[2011/08/30 15:43]  Laborious Aftermath: war is not just a male thing though male dominated
[2011/08/30 15:43]  Nicolette Marx: Anyone else correct me if my assumption is wrong, but does it seem that european men are somewhat more open than american men?
[2011/08/30 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Jamie
[2011/08/30 15:43]  ArtCrash Exonar: ‘Being strong’ for a man means repressing the emotions of fear and empathy.
[2011/08/30 15:43]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Nicolette, ope to wht? lol
[2011/08/30 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Depends, Nicolette… depends on the country. In my country, men are completely closed.
[2011/08/30 15:43]  Nicolette Marx: I base this mostly on online friendships and a few I have made in rl.
[2011/08/30 15:43]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi Rhia
[2011/08/30 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we barely are classified as “European”… lol
[2011/08/30 15:44]  Nicolette Marx: Oh, just open with expressing emotion.
[2011/08/30 15:44]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Violet
[2011/08/30 15:44]  Zobeid Zuma: Women tend to think of sharing secrets (or gossip, etc.) as a major component and activitiy of friendship. So if you gauge friendship based on that kind of sharing, that’s biased.
[2011/08/30 15:44]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Ari
[2011/08/30 15:44]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): I am hopeful that gblt will become gblti…….as I have read about the intersexd
[2011/08/30 15:44]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Men never gossip, they just give each other “heads up”
[2011/08/30 15:44]  Nicolette Marx: OH some men are bigger gossips than some females.
[2011/08/30 15:44]  Laborious Aftermath: part of that is social programing as humans grow in social structures
[2011/08/30 15:45]  ArtCrash Exonar: I find that in SL friend groups, women are meaner to each other than in Men friend groups in general. by meaner, I mean more judgemental and easily offended.
[2011/08/30 15:45]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): That’s what I meant, Nicolette
[2011/08/30 15:45]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Oh, women can be really mean, Art, not just in SL
[2011/08/30 15:45]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Women tend to be more relationally aggressive than men, yeah
[2011/08/30 15:45]  Jamie Marlin: Women look for intimacy by sharing information. And men look for intimacy by doing things together
[2011/08/30 15:45]  Zobeid Zuma: Right, Jamie.
[2011/08/30 15:45]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): It does not have to be that way
[2011/08/30 15:45]  Jamie Marlin: (I think)
[2011/08/30 15:45]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): If we find a new way
[2011/08/30 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess I don’t know enough people to make a rule, although it’s true that I get far more aggressivity from females than from males in general.
[2011/08/30 15:45]  ArtCrash Exonar: Yes, Violet relationally aggressive is a good term.
[2011/08/30 15:46]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): yes, I like that; men are more physically aggressive, not relatinally
[2011/08/30 15:46]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Right
[2011/08/30 15:46]  Jamie Marlin: What do you mean, Violet? Not sure I understand
[2011/08/30 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh well spotted.
[2011/08/30 15:46]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And hi Extie, and all those who haven’t said hi to me.
[2011/08/30 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Men: physical aggressivity. Women: aggressivity in relationships, communication
[2011/08/30 15:46]  ArtCrash Exonar: I find that when men talk directly to each other, there is little meaning interpreted from the directness. Whereas if a woman talks very directly without preamble, it is seen as rude.
[2011/08/30 15:47]  Laborious Aftermath: Hi rhi
[2011/08/30 15:47]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I mean more passive aggressive and, well, *mean*, Jamie; just not physically violent
[2011/08/30 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: it’s allowed if you’re a geek! hehe
[2011/08/30 15:47]  Zobeid Zuma: Aggressive communication, I can do. 😛
[2011/08/30 15:47]  Jamie Marlin: Oh yeah
[2011/08/30 15:47]  Jamie Marlin: Definitely
[2011/08/30 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Zo 🙂 I’m glad I’m your *friend* 😀
[2011/08/30 15:47]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): On average, biology has provided men with superior physical force
[2011/08/30 15:48]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): It was determined by the planet we live on
[2011/08/30 15:48]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): We are at a point where we choose
[2011/08/30 15:48]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Truely choos
[2011/08/30 15:48]  ArtCrash Exonar: I encourage all of you here to experience SL for a period as the opposite gender or a different race. It is a unique opportunity for learning about interactions among people who are different from you.
[2011/08/30 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I don’t see why it has to follow that way: biology giving men superior physical force; this makes them *less* prone to be aggressive in communications; and, thus, they form “shallower” relationships. It doesn’t stick together!
[2011/08/30 15:48]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): what we will be
[2011/08/30 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: All non sequiturs
[2011/08/30 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I tried that once, Art… I still have a male avatar somewhere
[2011/08/30 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s truly weird
[2011/08/30 15:49]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, I thought our race was homo sapiens, not non sequiturs
[2011/08/30 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahahaha Rhi
[2011/08/30 15:49]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): You responded fast to that, Gwyn
[2011/08/30 15:49]  ArtCrash Exonar: Gwyn true aggression in men leads to fighting. That is why men aren’t directly aggressive with each other, but instead are aggressive in a ‘kidding’ way.
[2011/08/30 15:49]  Zobeid Zuma: I tried being Japanese once, but everyone thought I was Fake Zobeid. 🙂
[2011/08/30 15:49]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Art, you are so right; experience male privilege was an eye opener, and being black was too.
[2011/08/30 15:50]  Jamie Marlin: I have a male avi too… but he is uncomfortable
[2011/08/30 15:50]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I can say completely idiotice things as a guy and people will take them seriously, whereas I have to fight to get heard as a female; and I’m a slut, obviously, when I’m black.
[2011/08/30 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes, what I noticed is that while with my regular avatar, I can contact people all over the place (all genders), and they usually not only talk back, but they also remember me after several days and IM me back etc
[2011/08/30 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: With my male avatar, I was mostly avoided
[2011/08/30 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: Interesting that you use the second person, there Jamie.
[2011/08/30 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. I tried to start a conversation and people would run away!
[2011/08/30 15:50]  ArtCrash Exonar: Interesting Gwyn
[2011/08/30 15:51]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Weird, Gwyn
[2011/08/30 15:51]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, interesting. You think people see you as more aggressive or having ulterior motive as a male?
[2011/08/30 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It was so weird and un_SL’ish to me that I gave it up lol
[2011/08/30 15:51]  Nicolette Marx: What is odd is i feel like i am invisible in sl with this av, when on my man-alt, people just talk to me.
[2011/08/30 15:51]  Jamie Marlin: He never felt like me, I guess? Which means maybe I never gave it a real chance
[2011/08/30 15:51]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think Gwyn, that is why men are more direct with communication, they have to be.
[2011/08/30 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: that’s what I assumed
[2011/08/30 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t know though
[2011/08/30 15:51]  Zobeid Zuma: Who said that? :/
[2011/08/30 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah… my male alt was kicked out of Thinkers even
[2011/08/30 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was before Extie 🙂
[2011/08/30 15:51]  Jamie Marlin: *giggles!*
[2011/08/30 15:51]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Nic, you think it’s gender? I have experiencd the opposite.
[2011/08/30 15:51]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): I look like a straight white male, with the speach of one, in rl………it does not make me a bad person
[2011/08/30 15:51]  Jamie Marlin: Oh my
[2011/08/30 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The fun bit was that I was in SL at the same time
[2011/08/30 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and in the same room lol
[2011/08/30 15:52]  ArtCrash Exonar: ha ha Gwyn that is awesome!
[2011/08/30 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I just rememebred it now
[2011/08/30 15:52]  Nicolette Marx: I have no idea. Maybe he’s just too man-sexy and getting hit on
[2011/08/30 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: that was EONS ago
[2011/08/30 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Another silly exercise…
[2011/08/30 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I went with my male alt to a community somewhere
[2011/08/30 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: sat down on a table
[2011/08/30 15:52]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Ok Gwyn
[2011/08/30 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: wore a low-cut dress
[2011/08/30 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and well, was chatting him (my m ale avatar) up
[2011/08/30 15:53]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, it partly depends on whether they know it’s you. I went to a discussion as a male and they called me Rhia, and treated me the same; but it was different when they didn’t know me.
[2011/08/30 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know it was silly to do, but I was having fun
[2011/08/30 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: After half an hour
[2011/08/30 15:53]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, tak about autogynephilia, only in reverse
[2011/08/30 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The sim owner kicked me out 🙂
[2011/08/30 15:53]  ArtCrash Exonar: Is is easier to me to interact in a DJ party situation that it is for me as my male alt. I think maybe less threatening or something?
[2011/08/30 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Prostituytion not allowed”
[2011/08/30 15:53]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, lol. Why? Were you being abusive, oh. lol
[2011/08/30 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and then started to talk to my male avatar…
[2011/08/30 15:54]  Laborious Aftermath: yep art
[2011/08/30 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No! But I was being very umh… erotic
[2011/08/30 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: I missed that:(
[2011/08/30 15:54]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I was ejected from a club for prostitution, and the clu owner, when the dj and another told him about why I was nude, chased me all over SL wanting me to eject him as a turnabout
[2011/08/30 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly, I couldn’t catch up with the conversation as a male avatar (too many questions about football and such)
[2011/08/30 15:54]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, what do you charge yourself?
[2011/08/30 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha hi!
[2011/08/30 15:54]  ArtCrash Exonar: I went to a stripper club with 3 girlfriends in SL and we all stripped and were instantly booted. It was hilarious. They didn’t want the competition.
[2011/08/30 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Rhi
[2011/08/30 15:54]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Just mumble things about quarterbacks.
[2011/08/30 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, Art
[2011/08/30 15:55]  Extropia DaSilva: what has any of this got to do with the question of how and why men and women value friendship?
[2011/08/30 15:55]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Fact….if as guy one exposes ones genitals, one will be banned… a straight club for sure, and after moments in a gay club
[2011/08/30 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I suspect it was because of that… I was an unlicensed hooker! hahahahah
[2011/08/30 15:55]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Art, I’ve been kicked out of strip joint for the same reason
[2011/08/30 15:55]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Yet women avs can be unclothed
[2011/08/30 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Extie, my example was that I never managed to establish relationships at all using a male avatar.
[2011/08/30 15:55]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Arch, where?
[2011/08/30 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the main reason I gave up on it!
[2011/08/30 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only conversation lasting longer than 10 minutes was with this guy owning the sim
[2011/08/30 15:56]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, now, that is interesting.
[2011/08/30 15:56]  ArtCrash Exonar: Female nudity is seen by society as beautiful, while male nudity in general is seen as threatening or ugly.
[2011/08/30 15:56]  Nicolette Marx: To be honest, I haven’t tried to establish relationships as a male in sl, because that would be a lie, I have to own up and say “OH hey. I got a vadge in rl”
[2011/08/30 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Some might claim that I simply didn’t try enough… and I was not even acting… I was just “being myself”, but with a male avatar
[2011/08/30 15:56]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): They never saw Michaelangelo’s David, then, Art
[2011/08/30 15:56]  Extropia DaSilva: You think stereotyping had something to do with it? Or did you feel uncomfortable in a male avvie? I know I would.
[2011/08/30 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Nicolette — well, I never even came close to that
[2011/08/30 15:56]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Nic, you should read that book about a woman who, in rl, went about as a man, to see what it was like
[2011/08/30 15:57]  ArtCrash Exonar: Just listen to people complain about men in speedo swimsuits, while the 200 pound bikini clad female is not ever chided.
[2011/08/30 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: good point. Perhaps that was the reason, people were able to “read” me
[2011/08/30 15:57]  Laborious Aftermath: not everyone/couples included bond the same. We all bond on diffrent levels
[2011/08/30 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow,. I never thought about that
[2011/08/30 15:57]  Nicolette Marx: Then people get all weirded out and think I am a transvestite, etc. And no, I just lik looking at my male persona. He is pretty to me, in a pixel way
[2011/08/30 15:57]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Most of the men tok it well come time for the reveal, and her girlfriend wanted to keep up the reltionship
[2011/08/30 15:57]  Extropia DaSilva: Do you go as a man? Or as a woman wearing a male avatar?
[2011/08/30 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that’s the point, Extie!
[2011/08/30 15:58]  Jamie Marlin: 🙂 I have a friend that I know to be a woman in RL, but who uses a male av here… and he always comes off as vaugely uncomfortable
[2011/08/30 15:58]  ArtCrash Exonar: I try to roleplay whatever alt or avatar I’m wearing. I like that aspect of SL.
[2011/08/30 15:58]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Art, in one sim, the “Senators” debated about why it was unfair to allow female nudity but not male–but the guys were having erections and poking people with them.
[2011/08/30 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps the reason why I never managed to talk to anyone for a satisfactory time was because I really was just “a woman with a male avatar”. although I have no idea how *they* knew
[2011/08/30 15:58]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): If one is wearing any av….then one is not authentic……a person can be both male and female as defined by our current culture
[2011/08/30 15:58]  Jamie Marlin: Gwen? Maybe it was because YOU knew?
[2011/08/30 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: They probably did not. You projected your anxiety onto them. Oo I sound like a psychoanalyst.
[2011/08/30 15:59]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Arch, by parity of reasoning, you should be naked in RL
[2011/08/30 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs* I’m now thinking that you’re right, but…
[2011/08/30 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gosh you see… we’re talking *text chat*
[2011/08/30 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is it SO obvious?
[2011/08/30 15:59]  Jamie Marlin: I honestly believe it is more about what makes someone feel right and themselves
[2011/08/30 15:59]  Laborious Aftermath: gwyneth its also the roll and even small things like hehehe vs Hahaha one id more masculine and another more feminine
[2011/08/30 15:59]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Men and women tend to choose different ways of wording things but that’s usually pretty, like, subtle
[2011/08/30 15:59]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): I should be one of my animas
[2011/08/30 15:59]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, it could be the vibes; ;you have ato put yourself in the energy field of a member of the opposite se to pull it off.
[2011/08/30 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ha 🙂 I always laugh as hehehe 🙂
[2011/08/30 16:00]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): And really more about context, I think
[2011/08/30 16:00]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): If I were to be honest
[2011/08/30 16:00]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes Gwyn. It is well known that men and women expres themselves differently, including communicating via text.
[2011/08/30 16:00]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): I do not see myself as human
[2011/08/30 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d be fine to believe that in RL, Rhi, but what seems so confusing is how well that translates into SL.
[2011/08/30 16:00]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Violet, they have a gender spotter software that you can use
[2011/08/30 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Really? Where, Rhi???
[2011/08/30 16:00]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Yeah, there are little…script….thingies?
[2011/08/30 16:00]  Zobeid Zuma: ??
[2011/08/30 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: in SL? 🙂
[2011/08/30 16:00]  Laborious Aftermath: P can I try to confuse it?
[2011/08/30 16:01]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): It’s downloadablae; I think it’s called gender spotter.
[2011/08/30 16:01]  Extropia DaSilva: I have seen that. It makes your pants go invisible.
[2011/08/30 16:01]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): no, on the regular net
[2011/08/30 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Extie
[2011/08/30 16:01]  ArtCrash Exonar: I have learned rules for roleplaying both men and women. I know they are stereotypes but they come from observation and seem to work to some degree. Men: be direct and overt in chat and don’t get offended by ANYTHING. Women: listen more intently to the emotional content of chat. don’t immediately get to the point, but practice small talk and complimenting.
[2011/08/30 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And does it work?
[2011/08/30 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh so it’s like a Turing test for detecting gender? So cool!
[2011/08/30 16:01]  ArtCrash Exonar: It seems to work to some degree I think.
[2011/08/30 16:01]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, yeah, exactly
[2011/08/30 16:02]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Awww! The gender text thingie I had bookmarked went under…
[2011/08/30 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Oh, no, Violet. Shame on you. You’ve spoiled it for all of us now.
[2011/08/30 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Art, you see, those things are the obvious ones… and you know that I’m an amateur writer, I alwaystry to use those tricks when writing dialogues… but somehow, in SL, it’s not so easy to pull it off
[2011/08/30 16:02]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus):
[2011/08/30 16:02]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): There’s one! I think.
[2011/08/30 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, I’ve used it in dialogue to make sure my male characters are masculine.
[2011/08/30 16:03]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Nice try, Gwyn
[2011/08/30 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[2011/08/30 16:03]  ArtCrash Exonar: I do get that Gwyn. It is all a learning process. one more tip for men: kidding around and giving each other shit is NOT a hostile act, so go for it.
[2011/08/30 16:03]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): the double, triple, double fake out
[2011/08/30 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the truth is, almost all my male friends are NOT like that.
[2011/08/30 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: They just, uh, talk naturally lol
[2011/08/30 16:03]  Extropia DaSilva: If gender is a social construct, does that make Arisia here a male, becaise that is the gender we are used to him being, even if in RL Ari’s primary is female?
[2011/08/30 16:03]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): People sometimes think I’m a guy ecause I’m naked, then they notice the shoes…lol
[2011/08/30 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my I don’t know what I mean
[2011/08/30 16:04]  Jamie Marlin: *agrees with gwyn*
[2011/08/30 16:04]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, according to advanced counselling psychology it does
[2011/08/30 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: in SL, you are the gender your avatar is
[2011/08/30 16:04]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): You are supposed to take the gender identificationof the person you are counselling.
[2011/08/30 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly.
[2011/08/30 16:04]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): So Lady Gaga is a girl, even though she has a couple of accourterments that only guys have.
[2011/08/30 16:04]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): If you get Ari to engage in public conversation, Exite, you get 3 brownie points
[2011/08/30 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: amazing how a tiny detail makes the difference between the genders… the shoes! hahahah
[2011/08/30 16:05]  Extropia DaSilva: Rumours that I am in dire need of counselling are exagterrated:)
[2011/08/30 16:05]  ArtCrash Exonar: Here is a broken stereotype. The largest boobed avatars in SL are almost always women, contrary to myth.
[2011/08/30 16:05]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Oooh, I want brownies!
[2011/08/30 16:05]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, isn’t it?
[2011/08/30 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What does Lady Gaga have?!?!
[2011/08/30 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes it is, Rhi!)
[2011/08/30 16:05]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): She has a couple of testicles, small ones, I believe.
[2011/08/30 16:05]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Lady Gaga has compassion
[2011/08/30 16:06]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Bt she was raised from birth as a girl, went to woman’s only schools.
[2011/08/30 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Really…. she’s intersexed? Now that’s an amusing thought.
[2011/08/30 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The things you know!
[2011/08/30 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re aq wealth of information lol
[2011/08/30 16:06]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): She once was quoted as saying she likes to give herself fellatio, but Im sure she was being pointed.
[2011/08/30 16:06]  Extropia DaSilva: By birth or due to some artistic bent of hers?
[2011/08/30 16:06]  Jamie Marlin: It also sounds like EXACTLY the sort of rumour she would create, just for the sheer fun of it
[2011/08/30 16:06]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, she is biologically a male, but was raised as a girl
[2011/08/30 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be a feat in any case 🙂
[2011/08/30 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
[2011/08/30 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, the voice of reason and rationality! haha
[2011/08/30 16:07]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Jamie, yes, but it has been verified.
[2011/08/30 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: OK..
[2011/08/30 16:07]  ArtCrash Exonar: I have respect for Lady Gaga, she is a real artist. And lives her life AS performance art. I heard her interviewed once and she is very brainy and interesting.
[2011/08/30 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and posted on the net’ haha
[2011/08/30 16:07]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Art, yes, there’s a friend of mind who has a tag, “Rhiannon is the Lady Gaga of Philosophy,” and I’m flattered.
[2011/08/30 16:07]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi jizz
[2011/08/30 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh you won’t hear me saying anything against Lady Gaga! I admire her as well.
[2011/08/30 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh wow Rhi
[2011/08/30 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: BTW, lost it and cannot recall it now, sadly, but I did read fairly persuasive evidence that there is more than just two possible sexes a person can be.
[2011/08/30 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): The point is that gender is a social construct
[2011/08/30 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and see…. here are we, stereotyping…. gossiping about Lady Gaga’s unmentionables… lol
[2011/08/30 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie, sure
[2011/08/30 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I think there are four–masculine, feminine, androgynous, and neuteral
[2011/08/30 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: sex is biological
[2011/08/30 16:08]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Neutrois :p
[2011/08/30 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Or maybe that’s undifferentiated
[2011/08/30 16:08]  ArtCrash Exonar: I feel the need to remind all that stereotypes don’t happen in a vacuum. there is some reality there.
[2011/08/30 16:09]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Agree Are
[2011/08/30 16:09]  Jamie Marlin: But… social construct or not…. I think that there are definite differences in how men and women relate to their friends (in general / on average / with lots of exceptions)
[2011/08/30 16:09]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): *Art
[2011/08/30 16:09]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Sex and gender are both spectrums, but most of us end up pretty close to one of the poles
[2011/08/30 16:09]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): We seem to be delving into gender metaphysics, not the difference in friendships
[2011/08/30 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: well sure, Art! 99% of all individuals with male genitals will act and behave as male gendered, and the same applies to females; the remaining 1% are the interesting cases.
[2011/08/30 16:09]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Violet, I’ve danced on a pole, is that what you mean?
[2011/08/30 16:09]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): 😛
[2011/08/30 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: BTW the poercentage varies from country to country. On some it’s as high as 10%.
[2011/08/30 16:09]  Jamie Marlin: 🙂
[2011/08/30 16:09]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, that’s France, right?
[2011/08/30 16:10]  ArtCrash Exonar: Jamie, would you say women are more intimate in personal details with their close friends?
[2011/08/30 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought iut was Australia; I can look it up if you wish
[2011/08/30 16:10]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Gender stereotypes can flip at the drop of a hat, too
[2011/08/30 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: There was a time I did some research on gender issues hehe
[2011/08/30 16:10]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, Ii was okiing, all the stereotypes about how gay the French are.
[2011/08/30 16:10]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): *jokiing
[2011/08/30 16:10]  Jamie Marlin: I think so? Or, at least, more willing to BEGING with intiomate personal details
[2011/08/30 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I had an intersexed employee and needed to know a little more about her case)
[2011/08/30 16:10]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Is Ari still here?….He was asked to comment, and has not done so in the pubic forum in my reading of the text.
[2011/08/30 16:10]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): yeah, he’s in IM with me.
[2011/08/30 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, *gay* is a diferent percentage; that’s sexual intercourse
[2011/08/30 16:11]  Jamie Marlin: Men seem to share at a much later point in the relationship
[2011/08/30 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: Not just close friends, Art. The study found that women are closer to casual friends than men are to their very best friends. In general, I mean.
[2011/08/30 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, homosexuality
[2011/08/30 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie: specially the Brits. 🙂 hehe
[2011/08/30 16:11]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, what does that mean?
[2011/08/30 16:11]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Ari can stay quiet if he wants…no need to turn on the spotlight :p
[2011/08/30 16:11]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think men see friendship as co-experiencers of a shared activity with less reliance on the emotional content of the activity.
[2011/08/30 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh how profound! 🙂
[2011/08/30 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I like that 🙂
[2011/08/30 16:12]  Jamie Marlin: Sis? I think that I do not trust that study. Because they have a flawed definition of ‘close’
[2011/08/30 16:12]  computer geek (compsocr2.sharktooth): what is emotional content?
[2011/08/30 16:12]  Extropia DaSilva: “Studies have shown that men’s relationship with other men is superficial and shallow, with even close friends rarely sharing the depth of disclosure a woman commonly has with other women”.
[2011/08/30 16:12]  Zobeid Zuma: Yeah, but how did the study measure “closeness”? Did they hook them up to some kind of friendship-o-meter?
[2011/08/30 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: In truth, my best male friends are the ones I share activities with, so there might be some truth in that statement, Art
[2011/08/30 16:12]  Jamie Marlin: I agree, Artcrash.
[2011/08/30 16:12]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): We are physical
[2011/08/30 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: We are mental! In both senses of the word!
[2011/08/30 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[2011/08/30 16:12]  Zobeid Zuma: Or put them in a scanner and measure their brain respons to watching episodes of MLP? 😀
[2011/08/30 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: You read the study, sis?
[2011/08/30 16:13]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): there can be things carried through different waves
[2011/08/30 16:13]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Most of my male friends are people I share interests with; and a lot of my female friends are just, like….there?
[2011/08/30 16:13]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Speach is one
[2011/08/30 16:13]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): motion is another
[2011/08/30 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed…. now that I think about it, you’re right, Violet (and so is Art)
[2011/08/30 16:13]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): (That doesn’t sound particularly “close” when I word it that way though, haha)
[2011/08/30 16:13]  Jamie Marlin: Ooooh. Violet. Me too!
[2011/08/30 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: BYW I should say I have not read it either. It was referenced in a book I have about love and sex with robots.
[2011/08/30 16:13]  ArtCrash Exonar: Shared suffering is sometimes referred to as ‘male bonding’. The suffering isn’t discussed but only referred to. But the bond is created.
[2011/08/30 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: There are obviously exceptions on the female side hehe — I see far more variety there, to be honest.
[2011/08/30 16:14]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): wb Rhia
[2011/08/30 16:14]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Correction – Males also bond in hou
[2011/08/30 16:14]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): *joy
[2011/08/30 16:15]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): thanks Vi
[2011/08/30 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: My question is: how much is that socially conditioned?
[2011/08/30 16:15]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Not so much, Gwyn
[2011/08/30 16:15]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Probably most of it, but I think men do tend to be task oriented and women tend to be socially oriented
[2011/08/30 16:15]  ArtCrash Exonar: Haven’t you noticed that men are less likely (in general here!) to be involved in an IM drama than women? As a sheer numbers game….
[2011/08/30 16:15]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I think most of masculinity and femininity is socially conditioned
[2011/08/30 16:15]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): My observations, tend to lean toward shared identity
[2011/08/30 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: A typical example: when my mother was about my age, she was the only woman going to football games (with my father). These days, there are far far more women in “typical male activities”. What does that say about the kind of relationships they create? Will these be more ‘shallow’ as well?
[2011/08/30 16:16]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): art, so you think women in general are more into drams in SL?
[2011/08/30 16:16]  Laborious Aftermath: yes rhi
[2011/08/30 16:16]  Jizz (lucca.seid): gender depends on the context that you are aproaching it with, if its genetic gender, you have different variables, and social gender varies from cultural background altough typically associated with sex organs, so the real important aspect of how gender works happens on self-deterministic gender inclinations of each individual and the freedom to pursue them
[2011/08/30 16:16]  computer geek (compsocr2.sharktooth): do you know any men the enjoy drama?
[2011/08/30 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: technically there is no “genetic gender” hehe — there is a genetical predisposition towards gender though
[2011/08/30 16:17]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Jizz, could you be more specific?
[2011/08/30 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Genetics only determine genitalia.
[2011/08/30 16:17]  ArtCrash Exonar: Rhiannon, No, I think that women are more likely to see the emotional content of a drama around them and therefore more likely to be involved peripherally than men.
[2011/08/30 16:17]  Laborious Aftermath: good posibility art
[2011/08/30 16:17]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Art, peripherally, but not centrally?
[2011/08/30 16:17]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Geez, Jizz….not wonder we try to simplify
[2011/08/30 16:17]  Jamie Marlin: I know thatmy first thought, when I speak with someone, is not ‘what did they say’ but ‘How do they feel’
[2011/08/30 16:17]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): In thinking about it, I get more into drama with women than with men.
[2011/08/30 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought that would be common politeness, Jamie!
[2011/08/30 16:18]  Jamie Marlin: 🙂 Oooh! Gwyn is a girl!
[2011/08/30 16:18]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): lol
[2011/08/30 16:18]  ArtCrash Exonar: Well, Rhi, all dramas START with a few and gain with the periphery until the periphery jumps in! haha
[2011/08/30 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh pfft
[2011/08/30 16:18]  Jamie Marlin: 🙂
[2011/08/30 16:18]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, yes, when someone said women are more likely to engage in chitchat and gauge the emotional content in a disdcussion, I thought–but isn’t that what you do?
[2011/08/30 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
[2011/08/30 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, I guess I never truly thought about it
[2011/08/30 16:18]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I thought everyone did both? :p
[2011/08/30 16:18]  Extropia DaSilva: how does that mindset work in SL, where all you have to go on is what people say, Jamie? Well, apart from ‘oh here comes Jamie:((((‘. *giggles!*
[2011/08/30 16:19]  Jamie Marlin: I think that maybe it is a matter of relative emphasis
[2011/08/30 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn is scanning her list of friends and now worried that perhaps she has no clue about the gender of far many people in tghat list!
[2011/08/30 16:19]  Extropia DaSilva: Why is that a worry, Gwyn?
[2011/08/30 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh, I might have offended a lot of them!
[2011/08/30 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just because I guessed wrongly!
[2011/08/30 16:19]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, and the question is–a., don’t you, if gender is delf determined? and b. what does it matter if it isn’t the same as in FL?
[2011/08/30 16:19]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Nothing to worry about Gwyn, they interacted with you according to your choice
[2011/08/30 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s true, Arch. Hmm
[2011/08/30 16:20]  ArtCrash Exonar: Gwyn, I think the less you know the gender of your friends list, the more you know the content of their character as opposed to whatever prejudices would occur if you were certain of gender…. Therefore a good thing.
[2011/08/30 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I don’t get any complaints, to be sure lol
[2011/08/30 16:20]  Zobeid Zuma: I’m wondering if I should stick my neck out with some ill-informed stereotypical comments.
[2011/08/30 16:20]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And you’ll find out–if you offended them and they get back at you, they’re women; if they don’t, they’re guys. Right?
[2011/08/30 16:20]  Laborious Aftermath: the only thing that may matter is if they lie
[2011/08/30 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: go for it, Zo!
[2011/08/30 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes, Art. I *try* to treat everybody in exactly the same way, no matter what they present themselves as
[2011/08/30 16:20]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zobeid, you can’t avoid them if you’re talking about gender
[2011/08/30 16:20]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): In heaven, there is no….
[2011/08/30 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Go go ZO!
[2011/08/30 16:20]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): /m admires her shoes while Zo talks
[2011/08/30 16:20]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): In heaven…everything is fine 🙂
[2011/08/30 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn prefers Rhi’s shoes than Zo’s sneakers hehe
[2011/08/30 16:21]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Violet, well, I’ve never been to heaven, but I’ve been to Oklahoma
[2011/08/30 16:21]  Zobeid Zuma: It seems that when men get together they are all about shared interests, whether that is. . . sports, politics, cars, music, whatever. . .
[2011/08/30 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: You have your good Things/ and I got mine…
[2011/08/30 16:21]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Extie 😀
[2011/08/30 16:21]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): I actually find I like shoes…..not shoes per se…..just the way some individuals react to shoes
[2011/08/30 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok so far, Zo…. that seems to be peaceful enough 🙂
[2011/08/30 16:21]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Rhiannon of the Birds likes Gwyn’s taste, but doesn’t want to offend Zo. Sneakers are nice tool
[2011/08/30 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Arch: when they get stepped on their toes? hehe)
[2011/08/30 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So polite, Rhi 🙂
[2011/08/30 16:22]  Zobeid Zuma: And women are more into. . . Whose cousin is in town? Who is going on vacation? Who is graduating? Who’s together and who’s not? What’s the status of everyone. . .
[2011/08/30 16:22]  ArtCrash Exonar: My rule of thumb in SL is to assume that whatever form an avatar takes is the role that I should respond to them in. It works most of the time………….
[2011/08/30 16:22]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I’m ANNOYED by shoes, more often than not
[2011/08/30 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: ‘do I carve them up like regular chickens? COUNTER PAUL!’ Oh dear, who triggered my Erazerhead quote region?
[2011/08/30 16:22]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I like to chitchat, flatter those I meet, e polite..
[2011/08/30 16:22]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): You know, gauge the emotional content of a discussion.
[2011/08/30 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Violet: only in RL, in my case! haha)
[2011/08/30 16:22]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): you have to have like a million pairs, just for slightly different contexts
[2011/08/30 16:22]  Jamie Marlin: I am sure that Zo’s sneakers are PERFECT for her invisible tee-shirt
[2011/08/30 16:22]  Zobeid Zuma: They are! 🙂
[2011/08/30 16:23]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): You have an invisible T shirt, Zo!
[2011/08/30 16:23]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): whispers: And they all fit weird
[2011/08/30 16:23]  ConnieJean Maven: I think you all for a very interesting discussion … Another commitment calls
[2011/08/30 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Violet: nothing like *scripºted shoes*!
[2011/08/30 16:23]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): You rat! I want one.
[2011/08/30 16:23]  Zobeid Zuma: You guys need to get Viewer 3 already. 😛
[2011/08/30 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bye, Connie 🙂
[2011/08/30 16:23]  ArtCrash Exonar: Zob: that is a good point about men and their shared interests being their main talking points. They are turned away from their inner life towards their outer life in general. (Just generalities here! ha ha)
[2011/08/30 16:23]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): TC, ConnieJean
[2011/08/30 16:23]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I don’t have anything against SL shoes 🙂
[2011/08/30 16:23]  Extropia DaSilva: In stidoes (she is on about studies again) people tend to distrust avatars with no clear gender. We think it is becaise we find them harder to ‘read’.
[2011/08/30 16:24]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): oh, I feel so much better; I rebaked.
[2011/08/30 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t find anything terrible in what Zo said, although I have to say that many of my male friends are of the type that asks “what’s everybody’s status” very early in the conversaqtion.
[2011/08/30 16:24]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Rx, I FB’d you something…..I hope you will find a comment to make
[2011/08/30 16:24]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Blessings and Namaste
[2011/08/30 16:24]  ArtCrash Exonar: As soon as I type this emotional content stuff I think of some men SL friends that are true emotional drama queens….. heh
[2011/08/30 16:24]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): My face looked drwan and zombie like and y nipples were gone
[2011/08/30 16:24]  Jamie Marlin: I follow the same policy, Artcrash. And I make an effort to never allow myself to speculate about RL gender or identity
[2011/08/30 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: that makes a bit of sense to me.
[2011/08/30 16:24]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Some of my best SL friends are people with ambiguously gendered avatars!
[2011/08/30 16:24]  Zobeid Zuma: Hmmm. . . Maybe it’s more of an introvert/extrovert type of distinction?
[2011/08/30 16:24]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Or rather ungendered, I guess
[2011/08/30 16:24]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Agendered?
[2011/08/30 16:24]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Violet, one of my freinds refers to herself as an It, and may actually be a guy.
[2011/08/30 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like that, agendered 🙂
[2011/08/30 16:25]  ArtCrash Exonar: Ooooooooooooo! Let’s talk about the STUDIOUSLY ungendered in SL. A fascinating bunch.
[2011/08/30 16:25]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Nicollete, are you a Klingon? I’m just now seeing you
[2011/08/30 16:25]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Well, but I mean, like–lightbulbs and little box people.
[2011/08/30 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that’s too hard to be!
[2011/08/30 16:25]  Nicolette Marx: haha no. Guessing I’m not rezzing real well.
[2011/08/30 16:25]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): oh, yeah, like our friend Zym–I always think of him as a guy
[2011/08/30 16:25]  Zobeid Zuma: I got a little mesh alien av. . . . which if it has any gender, I don’t see it.
[2011/08/30 16:26]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Me too, but his avi is always–well.
[2011/08/30 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (you look fine to me, Nicolette)
[2011/08/30 16:26]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zoe, esp if people are using v1
[2011/08/30 16:26]  ArtCrash Exonar: I know at least two who are completely waking the gender line with no hints either way in their avatars, profiles or during chatting.
[2011/08/30 16:26]  ArtCrash Exonar: walking
[2011/08/30 16:26]  Zobeid Zuma: Yeah, then it looks more like some kind of a pudding. 😛
[2011/08/30 16:26]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): it’s probably me, I had to rebake to see myself properly.
[2011/08/30 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: both are ungendered, is that what you mean?
[2011/08/30 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: Can you be ungendered? Society would apply a gender to you, I think. Aparrently, when we apply gender to computers it is invariably a male one.
[2011/08/30 16:27]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Oh, and I tried to find V 3, Zo, and couldn’t; it seems to be for special people only
[2011/08/30 16:27]  Laborious Aftermath:
[2011/08/30 16:27]  ArtCrash Exonar: Gwyn: I mean they roleplay ungendered humans.
[2011/08/30 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: HA! That’s because they’re stubborn as mules, Extie!
[2011/08/30 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: it’s the default download 😛
[2011/08/30 16:27]  Jamie Marlin: I have a friend who enjoys playing with androgeny. But she does pay attention to her shoes
[2011/08/30 16:27]  Extropia DaSilva: *giggles!*
[2011/08/30 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see, Art. Well, that’s an art form in itself!
[2011/08/30 16:27]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi veronique!
[2011/08/30 16:27]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Jamie, see?
[2011/08/30 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Jamie — shoes will always betray your true colours 😉 hehe
[2011/08/30 16:27]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): It’s a nearly infallable test
[2011/08/30 16:27]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): People do usually assume maleness in the absence of any cues…which actually might have some weird link to the way we perceive faces–we identify feminine faces by contrast
[2011/08/30 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Rhi
[2011/08/30 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oooh interesting Violet…. how so?
[2011/08/30 16:28]  ArtCrash Exonar: What the androgyny thing does though is to have all of their acquaintances trying to guess their gender constantly.
[2011/08/30 16:28]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Umm, contrast between skin and lips was one
[2011/08/30 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… mmmh…. lipstick was invented 2500 years ago, you know… lol
[2011/08/30 16:28]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Apparently, masculine faces are more uniform in tone or something
[2011/08/30 16:29]  ArtCrash Exonar: I find people are VERY unsettled by androgyny.
[2011/08/30 16:29]  Jamie Marlin: Well… language makes NOT having a gender difficult
[2011/08/30 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: that’s true! I agree!
[2011/08/30 16:29]  Extropia DaSilva: Whenever a cat is given a voiceover in TV commmercials, it is female. Dogs, now they are given male voices.
[2011/08/30 16:29]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I like androgyny, but yeah, I agree, Art.
[2011/08/30 16:29]  Zobeid Zuma: I have tried to create androgynous avs, but never was happy with the results.
[2011/08/30 16:29]  Zobeid Zuma: Zobeid Zuma quickly turns off audio, as her cat was reacting to it. o.O
[2011/08/30 16:29]  Jamie Marlin: 🙂
[2011/08/30 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is no setting for androgyny in SL 🙂
[2011/08/30 16:30]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): lol! Aww
[2011/08/30 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Zo — yes, that happens to my own cat as well 🙂
[2011/08/30 16:30]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zo, you’re most definitely feminine, is the thing
[2011/08/30 16:30]  Laborious Aftermath: you have to play to get it in SL
[2011/08/30 16:30]  ArtCrash Exonar: There is no Furry settin either Gwyn! haha
[2011/08/30 16:30]  ArtCrash Exonar: setting
[2011/08/30 16:30]  Laborious Aftermath: well we all look for symmetry in a partner
[2011/08/30 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes Jamie. If we went around saying ‘black asked about white’s health’ you could tell how important race was to us. BUt we do not. We say ‘he said, she said’ so gender is what is all important.
[2011/08/30 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Except on Basic mode! You can get wonderful mesed furries that way hehe
[2011/08/30 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *meshed
[2011/08/30 16:31]  Zobeid Zuma: huh?
[2011/08/30 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, at least on one of the Development viewers, Zo
[2011/08/30 16:31]  Extropia DaSilva: two more minutes folks! So, any concluding statements?
[2011/08/30 16:31]  ArtCrash Exonar: I have a friend who is of unknown gender who’s avatar is an orb with sparkles. A lot of people politically don’t want to deal with body issues in sl.
[2011/08/30 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we sadly conclude that the studies seem to be correct….
[2011/08/30 16:32]  Jizz (lucca.seid): mm?
[2011/08/30 16:32]  Extropia DaSilva: OK that will do.
[2011/08/30 16:32]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): My conclusion is that the difference between maculine and feminine friendships is that the former are more male and the latter more female.
[2011/08/30 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: We might just disagree about the word “shallow”
[2011/08/30 16:32]  ArtCrash Exonar: ha ha Rhi!
[2011/08/30 16:32]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): haha, Rhia
[2011/08/30 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: hahahahhaha
[2011/08/30 16:32]  Extropia DaSilva: OK my time is up!
[2011/08/30 16:32]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Rhiannon of the Birds dimples
[2011/08/30 16:33]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Oh, no, Extie, you’re time is up?
[2011/08/30 16:33]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Feminine relationships are more flexible, maybe?
[2011/08/30 16:33]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Say you’re coming back next week
[2011/08/30 16:33]  Extropia DaSilva: NEXT WEEK: A FINE MESH
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