THINKERS AUG 16 2011: REBRANDING SL

Extropia DaSilva: Welcome to Thinkers!
[2011/08/16 15:34]  ArtCrash Exonar: black hair is best!
[2011/08/16 15:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, it has rezzed now — it’s lovely!
[2011/08/16 15:34]  Kimiko Yiyuan: hello to Ivy too.
[2011/08/16 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: today the topic is (so true, Art!)
[2011/08/16 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: REBRANDING SL: Hamlet Au has suggested Second Life needs rebranding, because hardly anyone wants a “second life”. But Rod Humble told Edge magazine, “I am kind of at odds with the FB philosophy, which is we want to bring your real life persona into everything…a lot of the attraction [of SL] is that you can be what you want”. Who has the better understanding of SL’s users, and what name might Sl be rebranded as?
[2011/08/16 15:34]  Kimiko Yiyuan: And Rhi and Gwyn and and nand….
[2011/08/16 15:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn waves back to Kimiko 🙂
[2011/08/16 15:35]  Kimiko Yiyuan: I wonder what was meant with rebranding.
[2011/08/16 15:35]  Zobeid Zuma: Heh. . . I think Rod Humble’s view represents better what most people have been doing with SL. But maybe that’s just because it’s the view that SL has best enabled up to now?
[2011/08/16 15:35]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I thought it wa s like reframing
[2011/08/16 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It could just be whitewashing the Web design 😉
[2011/08/16 15:35]  Ivy Sunkiller: rebranding usually means changing the name of the brand 😛
[2011/08/16 15:36]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Ok, so lets call it First Life now? lol
[2011/08/16 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: it represents the view of everybody I know in SL. But… how representative are those few hundreds?
[2011/08/16 15:36]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And at one time that may have worked, but people now are fixed on ‘SEcond Life.’
[2011/08/16 15:36]  Extropia DaSilva: There have been complaints about the name since the very beginning.
[2011/08/16 15:36]  ArtCrash Exonar: Too late to change the brand name…. that would wreck the marketing totally
[2011/08/16 15:36]  Zobeid Zuma: LL assumes everyone wants a “Second Life”, so they design and brand it to support that, and they people follow that lead and use it that way, and then LL says: See? We were right about what people wanted!
[2011/08/16 15:36]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Callin it ‘Alterative Universe,’ or something wouldn’t work
[2011/08/16 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What marketing? lol
[2011/08/16 15:36]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): [15:34] Extropia DaSilva: Welcome to Thinkers!
[2011/08/16 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo! That’s *very* insightful!
[2011/08/16 15:37]  ArtCrash Exonar: I believe in the cat philosophy: At Least 9 Lives!
[2011/08/16 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I never thought to view things from that angle! You’re so right!
[2011/08/16 15:37]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Us animales, ty, Ex
[2011/08/16 15:37]  Laborious Aftermath: As in renaming second life to virtual life or such
[2011/08/16 15:37]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I don’t think SL can really be successfully Facebookitized; part of Facebook’s success over virtual worlds is that it doesn’t really require much investment
[2011/08/16 15:37]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Well, I know that the name sounds a bit problematic, but in the end it is just a name.
[2011/08/16 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: A rose under any other name…
[2011/08/16 15:37]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Kim, no, Extie had a point; it is not just a name
[2011/08/16 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: would smell as wheat..
[2011/08/16 15:37]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, well, try ‘stink weed’ for rose
[2011/08/16 15:37]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): (I don’t think Facebookification is really all that desirable, anyway)
[2011/08/16 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers* @ Rhi
[2011/08/16 15:38]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Cannot be patoned, G
[2011/08/16 15:38]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): (But it’s a fun non-word to say 🙂 )
[2011/08/16 15:38]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Each genome requires a new name to be pattoned
[2011/08/16 15:38]  ArtCrash Exonar: Speaking for myself, I joined SL because it was a virtual world. It could have been called ‘Joe’s tuna boathouse’ for all I cared.
[2011/08/16 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: At some point, we (the residents) sort of attempted to grab the concept of “Second Life” and turn it into far more than a brand.
[2011/08/16 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Same here, Art.
[2011/08/16 15:38]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): we should QUICKLY facebookify SL .. now that Facebooks facing wind from front
[2011/08/16 15:38]  Kimiko Yiyuan: And I think the comparison of FB with SL is not really a fortunate one in the first place. FB is a different concept. A newer one, indeed, but one that cannot be just laid over SL so easily.
[2011/08/16 15:38]  Ivy Sunkiller: well, we had this discussion before, sort of. Second Life isn’t really second life, it’s more of an extension to our lives (Extie is an exception, but even for her it’s not second life, more like first)
[2011/08/16 15:39]  Conover’s Flight-Helper 6.3.3 (WEAR ME!): Flight-helper is ready and operational.
[2011/08/16 15:39]  Laborious Aftermath: they should just keep it SL and fix the known running bugs or upgrade it seems to me. It would be a wast of marketing and might even do harm as some may percive a problem and that caused the name or slogan
[2011/08/16 15:39]  ArtCrash Exonar: I know! Let’s Call it Blue Mars!!!!!
[2011/08/16 15:39]  Extropia DaSilva: I have been thinking of a brand name that encapsulates the general noob attitude of SL. I thought maybe ‘UHHSTOOPIDGAMEWHATDOIDO’
[2011/08/16 15:39]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): blimey! all red chairs already occupied :/
[2011/08/16 15:39]  Zobeid Zuma: Oh, I know! Let’s call it “There”. That’s google-able. 😛
[2011/08/16 15:40]  Zobeid Zuma: Hi Luh!
[2011/08/16 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said last week, I think that an appropriate name right now would be “Facepalm”
[2011/08/16 15:40]  Ivy Sunkiller: so as I understand it, rebranding would be wanted in order to not mis-lead people regarding what it is. That and Second Life can have a really, really bad PR these days.
[2011/08/16 15:40]  ArtCrash Exonar: voila: red chair
[2011/08/16 15:40]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): wb Rhia
[2011/08/16 15:40]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): wb Rhi .. sorry for that slap on your bum that made you crash
[2011/08/16 15:40]  Kimiko Yiyuan: luh! hello there. 🙂
[2011/08/16 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or, if we include FB’s and Google’s attitude against privacy and pseudonymity, “NymWorld” would be fantastic 😉
[2011/08/16 15:41]  ArtCrash Exonar: anyone checking #nymwars on Twitter besides me?
[2011/08/16 15:41]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Or, use a tv name, “The Real World”
[2011/08/16 15:41]  Extropia DaSilva: But of all the names, do you not think ‘Second Life’ is at leasy inclusive of all attitudes whether you see your avvie as an extension of you or as a character to be roleplayed?
[2011/08/16 15:42]  Ivy Sunkiller: in fact, I had a talk with friends in fleshworld and we somehow went onto Second Life, their vision of it is a place where people just “buy stuff, get married and pretend to live in”, which while not far from the truth is sort of labeling SL as a virtual place for nutcracks
[2011/08/16 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now seriously, what LL *could* actually do is NOT to rebrand the WHOLE of SL. But instead, target areas of SL to specific types of customers and create a Web experience distinct from the “main” one.
[2011/08/16 15:42]  ArtCrash Exonar: I love The Real World! ha haha
[2011/08/16 15:42]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, it does bias thngs toward the immersive point of view–the people for whom this is a second life
[2011/08/16 15:42]  Laborious Aftermath: lol ivy 🙂
[2011/08/16 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: the answer is “yes for me and my friends”, but I always question the representativity of that tiny group.
[2011/08/16 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: I do believe you have to be kind of disapointed with real life in order to really embrace SL.
[2011/08/16 15:43]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): I know where your soul lives, Gwyn
[2011/08/16 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ivy — true! No laughs from me.
[2011/08/16 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arch: I have no soul 😉
[2011/08/16 15:43]  ArtCrash Exonar: So if SL is so bad, what other vr worlds have a ‘good’ name? I know that Extie will probably say Extropia Universe! heh
[2011/08/16 15:43]  Conover’s Flight-Helper 6.3.3 (WEAR ME!): Flight-helper is ready and operational.
[2011/08/16 15:43]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): very immersive
[2011/08/16 15:43]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, well, augmentists use it to augment, so it depends
[2011/08/16 15:43]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): You ccan do things in SL and other things in FL
[2011/08/16 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: Is there such a world? I heard of Entropia but not extropia universe.
[2011/08/16 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: realy… that’s an incredibly pessimistic view, Extie. Unless I’m the only one in SL that is incredibly excited with my own life 🙂
[2011/08/16 15:44]  ArtCrash Exonar: oh
[2011/08/16 15:44]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I teach philiosophy in SL, writing and mathematics in FL, it’s not that I’m disappointed in what I can do there; but I ccon do different things here
[2011/08/16 15:44]  ArtCrash Exonar: never mind
[2011/08/16 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: yeah but your life IS Second life, Gwyn. Even more than mine is! I only live here. You live AND work.
[2011/08/16 15:44]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): I have spirit animals in my real life…..it may put me outside the “mainstream” yet they exist for me
[2011/08/16 15:44]  Kimiko Yiyuan: So, what are we talking about here, actually. This rebranding, is it or should it be about using clear names here, or what is it really about? The comparison to FB in the quote suggest that, but I am not sure. So what could be really meant?
[2011/08/16 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I lived and worked before SL, and will con tinue to do so if I outlive SL 🙂
[2011/08/16 15:45]  ArtCrash Exonar: Second life is where I can make snarky remarks and not get punched!
[2011/08/16 15:45]  Ivy Sunkiller: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mVUXnAeibE
[2011/08/16 15:45]  Ivy Sunkiller: this video is a perfect example of what is wrong with *marketing* SL
[2011/08/16 15:45]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Extie gets the Houellebecq square… Those who love life do not read. Nor do they go to the movies, actually. No matter what might be said, access to the artistic universe is more or less entirely the preserve of those who are a little fed up with the world.”
[2011/08/16 15:45]  Ivy Sunkiller: the order of things they present: music events, clubbing, shopping
[2011/08/16 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kimiko, I sort of understood that LL is not going to stick to a “single market”. Instead, they might (once more) target specific groups, with specific applications (and possibly brand names) for different groups.
[2011/08/16 15:46]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): artistic or autistic?
[2011/08/16 15:46]  Lem Skall: SL is where I can’t punch someone who makes snarky remarks
[2011/08/16 15:46]  Ivy Sunkiller: like, really? Is that the kind of brain washed consumer the sims player SL wants to attract?
[2011/08/16 15:46]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Ok. Thanks Gwyn.
[2011/08/16 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: E.g. imagine a large continent full of live music, an associated website like MySpace, and trying to specifically target music lovers. Like a virtual myspace.
[2011/08/16 15:46]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Violet shudders
[2011/08/16 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: Well, Kimiko the question is ‘is Hamlet right that we want to project our RL selves, or is Rod Humble right that we want to ‘re-invent ourselves’?
[2011/08/16 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, so that was the question? lol
[2011/08/16 15:46]  Lem Skall: why can’t we have both?
[2011/08/16 15:46]  Ivy Sunkiller: which is especially sad after the intro they show, SL can be a nest for creativity
[2011/08/16 15:47]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): They’re both right.
[2011/08/16 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I totally missed the point, I thought it was about rebranding haha
[2011/08/16 15:47]  Zobeid Zuma: I definitely fall into the second camp, and I’m sure many others do.
[2011/08/16 15:47]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think what Hamlet is ‘worried’ about is the fact that SL is barely growing. He wants it to be HUGE. Trouble is he thinks to be huge it needs to be put in a web browser. That will decrease quality, so I think that is not the final solution.
[2011/08/16 15:47]  Free Radar HUD: Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
[2011/08/16 15:47]  Lem Skall: I would question if that would make SL bigger
[2011/08/16 15:47]  Ivy Sunkiller: putting SL in a browser won’t work
[2011/08/16 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear, Art. It’s time journalists learn that successful businesses don’t need “Huge numbers”: They just need one thing — profit.
[2011/08/16 15:48]  ArtCrash Exonar: Oh Gwyn you are so right about that.
[2011/08/16 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: Lem, my argument would be that an immersionist SL is inclusive of augmentationism, because you can always play yourself. But an augmentatist online network is hostile to immersionists. As Google+ proved.
[2011/08/16 15:48]  Zobeid Zuma: I don’t get the whole browser thing. If anything it seems like the computing world is starting to swing back away from doing everything in the browser. Re: App Stores
[2011/08/16 15:48]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Mm, I agree, too. Mass appeal fades quickly, too
[2011/08/16 15:48]  Lem Skall: it’s one of those stupid concepts that marketing is more important than content
[2011/08/16 15:48]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi Jamie
[2011/08/16 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Facebook had to get over 500 million users before iut actually made a tiny profit… on the year they made it, LL, with less than 20 million registered users, had twice th proifit.
[2011/08/16 15:48]  Ivy Sunkiller: not withing next years, I’ve seen WebGL and it’s very unimpressive in terms of performance. And SL isn’t really performance friendly (sitting on a very good gaming machine here with 9fps, nuff said)
[2011/08/16 15:48]  Laborious Aftermath: we may want to reinvent ourselves but in the end we are still the same individual
[2011/08/16 15:49]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Agree, Gwyn, there are those who are driven by profit….just as there are those driven by other concepts
[2011/08/16 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: excellent point re: App Store; but Google is fighting back with their own applications-inside-Chrome store.
[2011/08/16 15:49]  ArtCrash Exonar: SL has a tier base of around a hundred million US dollars a year. That is nothing to sneeze at. Although Hamlet reported that some ‘insider’ lindens think that tier fees are unsustainable in the long run.
[2011/08/16 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: I still have my accont on G+! Can you believe it? You should see my profile. I could not make my status as a digital person more obvious.
[2011/08/16 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arch: ultimately, someone has to pay for those people who are driven by concepts 😉
[2011/08/16 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: in my own case, I’m also surprised I haven’t been deleted.
[2011/08/16 15:50]  Wynd Ling: thank you kindly
[2011/08/16 15:50]  Ivy Sunkiller: Ivy Sunkiller isn’t suspended on G+ just yet either
[2011/08/16 15:50]  Zobeid Zuma: Try putting some Chinese characters in your name. 🙂
[2011/08/16 15:50]  Wynd Ling: cute place
[2011/08/16 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: that’s indeed a problem. Because the OpenSim-based competition has no development costs, they are closely emulating SL, eature by feature, and getting more stable by the month… for a tenth of the cost.
[2011/08/16 15:50]  Lem Skall: SL doesn’t need rebranding, it needs purpose and Hamlet wrongfully believes that just rebranding is going to give SL a new purpose; only content will do that
[2011/08/16 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: Well you are called Gwyneth which sounds like a normal girl’s name. ‘Extropia’ kind of screams Internet handle. But we are off topic..
[2011/08/16 15:50]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I’ve always been giving the brush off on G plus; they say wait util they open it to just anyone
[2011/08/16 15:51]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Lem, the purpose of SL is the purpose of the users
[2011/08/16 15:51]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): We are totally on topic, Ex
[2011/08/16 15:51]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And Facebook shows that the name isn’t that important–I mean Faccebook? ome on?
[2011/08/16 15:51]  ArtCrash Exonar: The one think that I think will increase SL usership is to get people to content and friends that have common interests quickly. I think Rod Humble understands that and is working on fixing that.
[2011/08/16 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lem: thus my own theory: create new areas with content spec ifically targetted for a specific audience, market only to that niche group, and rebrand it.
[2011/08/16 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: You are. I am not:)
[2011/08/16 15:51]  Lem Skall: Rhi, the users will come for the purpose of SL
[2011/08/16 15:51]  Laborious Aftermath: yes art
[2011/08/16 15:51]  Zobeid Zuma: Example, Gwyn?
[2011/08/16 15:51]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Facebook is actually kind of a good name! It evokes yearbooks and stuff
[2011/08/16 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: the name choice was VERY deliberate 😉
[2011/08/16 15:52]  Lem Skall: Gwy, THAT would be a solution
[2011/08/16 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: that was what I said earlier… a Virtual MySpace for musicians and music lovers.
[2011/08/16 15:52]  Lem Skall: Gwyn*
[2011/08/16 15:52]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, I am arguing Plato’s point about inherent telos on Thursday, but I look at SL as a medium
[2011/08/16 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: Well originally a Facebook was a kind of college record? Photos of all at the university with a little biopic, right?
[2011/08/16 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s what imemdiately comes to my mind.
[2011/08/16 15:52]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): The purpose, if there is any, is to interact with others
[2011/08/16 15:52]  ArtCrash Exonar: Facebook was made for frat boys to pick up RL girls, that is why RL names are required. They just took that concept and ran with it.
[2011/08/16 15:52]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Right, Extie
[2011/08/16 15:52]  Ivy Sunkiller: Lem: I think you are completely, absolutely wrong. It’s not about giving it purpose, it’s about naming it for what it is so people don’t confuse it with IMVU style “escape life and get in love while giving us $$” type of environments.
[2011/08/16 15:52]  Lem Skall: Rhi, that’s WAAAY too broad and unclear
[2011/08/16 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: IMVU, now that is a wonderful name… lol
[2011/08/16 15:53]  Ivy Sunkiller: which I honestly still hope SL is not, yet
[2011/08/16 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I was being sarcastic!)
[2011/08/16 15:53]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Hm, well, besides that I think this re-invention is only possible in parts anyway – i am not sure if thats what they really meant. But there is no reason that you cannot have both, actually. As I said, SL and FB are two different concepts. FB would not make sense if everyone would only use pseudonyms and try to be someone else – some might do and some might try, sure – but it was not the concept FB was based upon when it started. SL, on the other hand was meant as being an online world – one of many and not the first one, actually, for people to have fun with. It is not social networking, it is more or less a closed community for people that participate.
[2011/08/16 15:53]  ArtCrash Exonar: yes, Gwyn IMVU is a HORRIBLE name! haha
[2011/08/16 15:53]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Phew, Gwyn 🙂
[2011/08/16 15:53]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Lem, but it’s descriptive; that’s what people want to do here.
[2011/08/16 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wrote a comment that I thought that Rod would develop a Blue Mars/IMVU clone for the iPhone.
[2011/08/16 15:53]  Extropia DaSilva: No Lem Rhi is correct. The fundamental point of SL is communocation through shared experience.
[2011/08/16 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Targetted for the younger audience who spend all their time texting on mobile phones.
[2011/08/16 15:53]  Ivy Sunkiller: Art: that’s the point, SL isn’t really much better 🙂
[2011/08/16 15:54]  Lem Skall: Rhi, what people? the ones who are here? sure, otherwise they wouldn’t be here, but all those who aren’t here are not here because they don’t see any purpose
[2011/08/16 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kimiko: Art was right, Facebook was really started for frat boys to get laid 😛
[2011/08/16 15:54]  Lem Skall: Extie, that’s the purpose that Philip thought of but not the purpose that most people may see in it
[2011/08/16 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we have reached market saturation for SL. There simply aren’t more people interested in *this* kind of environment.
[2011/08/16 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But there might be people that could be interested in VW technology for a *different* environment.
[2011/08/16 15:55]  Wynd Ling: well with the new developments of the ability to log into sl through a browser then i would assume LL is attempting to make Sl a FB app or game
[2011/08/16 15:55]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Quicksilver
[2011/08/16 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (e.g. live music concerts…. sorry to insist, it’s the best example I have in mind)
[2011/08/16 15:55]  ArtCrash Exonar: Gwyn, I don’t think that is true. Mostly because daily registrations are truly astronomical.
[2011/08/16 15:55]  Wynd Ling: seems logical, the display names, the browser ability,
[2011/08/16 15:55]  Ivy Sunkiller: Gwyn: or there is no more people willing to research what kind of enviornment it actually is and just get turned off by the press :).
[2011/08/16 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: yes, but how many remain? Less than 1%
[2011/08/16 15:56]  Extropia DaSilva: Well Lem I would ask them to argue the case against, and then I would say ‘well in having this discussion we shared an experience so you are WRONG haha I win give me my million linden dollars I bet ya’.
[2011/08/16 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ivy: agreed! The media has too much power hehe
[2011/08/16 15:56]  ArtCrash Exonar: So the problem is to get them to what they want. That hasn’t been perfected, right?
[2011/08/16 15:56]  Jamie McCarey: Whatever happened to tha idea about texture-mapping your RL face onto your avie? Maybe the FBers would go for that… :p
[2011/08/16 15:56]  Zobeid Zuma: Wow, what happens to all those people?
[2011/08/16 15:56]  Wynd Ling: yes only press i have ever seen across our local paper was this man is this avatar cheating on his wife with this avatar
[2011/08/16 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: LL hasn’t even done market research to see what people want!
[2011/08/16 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: they leave.
[2011/08/16 15:56]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Yeah, but we had that for a few years now Art. It is an old discussion, How many remain and how many are alts or griefers? As Gwyn just said.
[2011/08/16 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wynd: gosh, are those kind of stories still being published???
[2011/08/16 15:57]  Extropia DaSilva: I remember that..
[2011/08/16 15:57]  Wynd Ling: hehe don’t attempt google + either unless you wanna use your real name, i hear they are stripping you fo your g-mail if you do use your avatar name
[2011/08/16 15:57]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, I came close to that when I had this avi made from my RL photo
[2011/08/16 15:57]  Ivy Sunkiller: I’m an alt of a griefer!
[2011/08/16 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alts & griefers are a tiny percentage actually.
[2011/08/16 15:57]  Ivy Sunkiller: or a griefer alt of…
[2011/08/16 15:57]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Men and Women cheating to assure procreation is part of all thng, imo
[2011/08/16 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wynd: sadly it’s not a rumour, it’s true 😛
[2011/08/16 15:57]  ArtCrash Exonar: Gwym: Did you see Rod Humbles SLCC address where he introduced 7 or 8 full time employees to deal with inworld specialty groups and get that information accessible?
[2011/08/16 15:57]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): We are still tied to flesh bodies
[2011/08/16 15:57]  Wynd Ling: yes i have heard it on many accounts
[2011/08/16 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I didn’t, Art, but thattotally makes sense 🙂
[2011/08/16 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wynd: I even *know* a few accounts 😉
[2011/08/16 15:58]  ArtCrash Exonar: The Art world liason is Durian Linden
[2011/08/16 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm 🙂
[2011/08/16 15:58]  Ivy Sunkiller: actually they shouldn’t suspend gmail, but they can suspend picasa and google reader because they are social services (how on earth the reader categorizes as social service I’ve no idea).
[2011/08/16 15:58]  Wynd Ling: but regarding the recent Sl changes, well the display names i still don’t see the reason for or the single name of the new members, but i do enjoy the feeds. well I only have mine set to where friends can post…as could you imagine what would happen if you let just anyone
[2011/08/16 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That *seems* to sort of validate my own suspicions 🙂
[2011/08/16 15:59]  Wynd Ling: nods its unfortunate as i am an avid google tools users
[2011/08/16 15:59]  Zobeid Zuma: I don’t have the foggiest idea what the “feeds” are all about. 😛
[2011/08/16 15:59]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): And someday we will be tied to whatever physical, electronic, or nuclear bodies assure our existence.
[2011/08/16 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So am I, Wynd!
[2011/08/16 15:59]  Wynd Ling: so…happy i did not sign up for the google +
[2011/08/16 15:59]  Ivy Sunkiller: then again there is about zero consequences in what google+ staff is actually doing, so whatever
[2011/08/16 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: sort of Twitter-for-SL, embedded in the profiles 🙂
[2011/08/16 15:59]  Zobeid Zuma: Are there actually settings you can set on that? Like turn it off?
[2011/08/16 15:59]  Wynd Ling: but i was all happy about it as i already broadcast my picasa
[2011/08/16 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: I thought that was IM, Gwyn?
[2011/08/16 15:59]  Zobeid Zuma: Zobeid Zuma doesn’t know much about Twitter neither.
[2011/08/16 15:59]  Wynd Ling: there is no setting to turn off sl feeds
[2011/08/16 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: There are three privacy leveles on it I think….
[2011/08/16 15:59]  Jamie McCarey: Everybody who uses the Web (only) is used to single-name logins… LL did that to make SL seem more ‘familiar’, IMO…
[2011/08/16 15:59]  Wynd Ling: but you cna set it to only allow friends
[2011/08/16 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No? But there was, during the beta…
[2011/08/16 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right
[2011/08/16 16:00]  Wynd Ling: now…the one issue i see there is 1/2 my friends list are clients
[2011/08/16 16:00]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Yeah, a tiny percentage indeed. But still something to be considered when talking about all those new people and astronomical registration. I just added them for the sake of the whole picture. heh
[2011/08/16 16:00]  Alzahra Ames-Abbot (alzahra.ames): hello
[2011/08/16 16:00]  Alzahra Ames-Abbot (alzahra.ames): good night
[2011/08/16 16:00]  Wynd Ling: not friends so to speak so we shoudl be able to set folders for those callign cards
[2011/08/16 16:00]  Extropia DaSilva: hello.
[2011/08/16 16:00]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I’m gettting lost–what’s our thread again?
[2011/08/16 16:00]  Extropia DaSilva: No, stay! debate with us!
[2011/08/16 16:00]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Sounds like a song from the 50s, “Don’t know much about Twitteree”
[2011/08/16 16:00]  Extropia DaSilva: …I have no idea, Rhi!
[2011/08/16 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, it’s not “astronomical”…. “only” 7 million new users per year.
[2011/08/16 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: New registrations, I mean.
[2011/08/16 16:01]  ArtCrash Exonar: I think the reason so many are disappointed in Google, is that they always said their motto was ‘Don’t be evil’ and now they are showing that they are being evil.
[2011/08/16 16:01]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Wow, both Gwyn and Extie lost
[2011/08/16 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, Art … did you see that link for the conspiracy group against Google? hehe
[2011/08/16 16:01]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Must be a “big” moment
[2011/08/16 16:01]  Extropia DaSilva: Thing is, if Sl started generating FB levels of interest, could the severs handle it?
[2011/08/16 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What did I lose? 🙂
[2011/08/16 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure, Extie.
[2011/08/16 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, Goggle plus is just another Facebook; why not stay with FB?
[2011/08/16 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Remember who is in charge of the data center 😉
[2011/08/16 16:02]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Sorry Gwyn…. not you….Rhi
[2011/08/16 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And I’m not just saying that cuz they won’t let me join
[2011/08/16 16:02]  Jamie McCarey: SL can’t handle /current/ levels of interest… :p
[2011/08/16 16:02]  Ivy Sunkiller: I don’t see how the servers wouldn’t handle it, for $300 per month!
[2011/08/16 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: because of FB’s policies. 🙂 But if Google+ has the same type of policies, then, well, there’s no point in G+
[2011/08/16 16:02]  ArtCrash Exonar: The problem with FaceBook Rhi is the single feed. Google plus fixed that.
[2011/08/16 16:03]  Wynd Ling: 300 a month is the most expensive, least control , i have ever had for a server
[2011/08/16 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ivy: true, but remember, LL is not THAT profitable, even at US$300/sim
[2011/08/16 16:03]  Wynd Ling: never quite got that idea…and i am a sim wner
[2011/08/16 16:03]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Rhii, what, ARch?
[2011/08/16 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wynd: it’s not. It’s actually pretty near to cost.
[2011/08/16 16:03]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): poke
[2011/08/16 16:03]  Extropia DaSilva: It is a case of not puting all your eggs in one basket, Rhi. If you are on many networking sites and one goes down, the loss to you is less than if that site had been your only networking site.
[2011/08/16 16:03]  Kimiko Yiyuan: But there is no real point in thinking those policies would not be the same at all. And why should it. They both live well with the data they get through it.
[2011/08/16 16:03]  Wynd Ling: hmmm but i have had servers before
[2011/08/16 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn pkes Arch back 🙂
[2011/08/16 16:03]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): or FB poke
[2011/08/16 16:03]  ArtCrash Exonar: Wynd, the 300 is due to the high networking data costs.
[2011/08/16 16:03]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): either one
[2011/08/16 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wynd: *web*servers.
[2011/08/16 16:03]  Wynd Ling: i amspeaking about the amount of control i have over that server
[2011/08/16 16:04]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I see, Extie.
[2011/08/16 16:04]  Wynd Ling: as its well known sim owners have so little control
[2011/08/16 16:04]  Extropia DaSilva: I get poked on FB and I never know what purpose that is meant to serve.
[2011/08/16 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: no, not really; it’s the cost of LL’s staff that has to develop teh whole technology from scratch and maintain it 🙂
[2011/08/16 16:04]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Wynd, sim owners have little control over what?
[2011/08/16 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gosh, every year I post LL’s figures on a comment…
[2011/08/16 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: … and forget where I did it…
[2011/08/16 16:04]  Wynd Ling: the server, like blockign folks who could crash it
[2011/08/16 16:04]  Ivy Sunkiller: Gwyn: yes, well, that’s what happens when you have monopoly on something (as in monopoly on servers on the main grid), I’m sure if we could get 3rd party servers plugged to it prices would drop drastically.
[2011/08/16 16:04]  ArtCrash Exonar: Estate sim owners have quite a bit of control Mainland sim owners, very little.
[2011/08/16 16:04]  Wynd Ling: someone wearing 1000 resizers who is using 15% of the total resources
[2011/08/16 16:05]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Control over what, ARt?
[2011/08/16 16:05]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Probably nothing more or less than the poking itself Extropia. haha
[2011/08/16 16:05]  Jamie McCarey: Jamie McCarey thinks of a service that would replicate all compatible SN stuff to all of one’s SNs… more traffic than spam… o.O
[2011/08/16 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, Ivy! OpenSim grid operators run ata fraction of the cost because they don’t need developers.
[2011/08/16 16:05]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Ex, it means, I still think of you as a friend……even tho my life doesn’t allow me the time to really cultivate that friendship
[2011/08/16 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sim software is free, and they can just use LL’s work on the client 🙂
[2011/08/16 16:05]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Pokes Extropia
[2011/08/16 16:05]  ArtCrash Exonar: Control over virtually everything from the server version to what scripts get run.
[2011/08/16 16:05]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): oic, ARt. Thanks
[2011/08/16 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we’ll slowly get there, Art 🙂
[2011/08/16 16:06]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, I’m glad you also have no idea what we’re talking about; it feels less lonelyh. lol
[2011/08/16 16:06]  Extropia DaSilva: Look here is how to make SL operate to its best potential. Make Gwyn CEO and Katherine Berry CTO and have hem be guided by my vision of SL as the kind of apotheosis that leader of the STO goes on about in ‘Caprica’. Job done.
[2011/08/16 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: ROFL
[2011/08/16 16:06]  Wynd Ling: hehe
[2011/08/16 16:06]  ArtCrash Exonar: Katherine Berry is a trip
[2011/08/16 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: She’s cool 🙂 I loved to have her work for me for a while.
[2011/08/16 16:06]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): I suppose that means I die in the first episode
[2011/08/16 16:07]  ArtCrash Exonar: I am intimidated by her intelligence! heh
[2011/08/16 16:07]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): then come back as a ?
[2011/08/16 16:07]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): ARch, but you’ll come back in the sequel
[2011/08/16 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: so am I!
[2011/08/16 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: what was her name? The one in Caprica, head of the school?
[2011/08/16 16:07]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): As your twin brother, Arch
[2011/08/16 16:07]  Ivy Sunkiller: Gwyn: forgive me since I didn’t do the actual math, but how many developers does LL have? at $300 a month per server, with <insert big number here> servers minus the costs for running them does seem a lot of money. They must have a lot of artificial costs.
[2011/08/16 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ack Ivy
[2011/08/16 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I ever find that comment, I’ll send it to you 🙂
[2011/08/16 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wish Google could find it for me.
[2011/08/16 16:08]  Wynd Ling: smiles i thought lst yr they cut a bunch of their developers?
[2011/08/16 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, every year I redo the calculations and post it “somewhere”.
[2011/08/16 16:08]  Ivy Sunkiller: any paraphrasing? 🙂
[2011/08/16 16:08]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): I can’t help this…..”How many developers can LL sit on the head of a pin”
[2011/08/16 16:08]  ArtCrash Exonar: Ivy, a LOT of the sl cost is the data networking pipeline.
[2011/08/16 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: They have a stall of 250, Ivy…
[2011/08/16 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: much less than you think actually
[2011/08/16 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *staff
[2011/08/16 16:08]  Ivy Sunkiller: Art: yes, but that’s the cost you substract from the $300 a month, no?
[2011/08/16 16:08]  ArtCrash Exonar: yes
[2011/08/16 16:09]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): “How many servers must an avi cross before they ccall him an avi…and how many crashes must exist, butefore they’re forwever banned…The answer my friend is blowing in the ghe grid; the answer is blowing in the gid.”
[2011/08/16 16:09]  Lem Skall: how much does LL spend in advertising? anything?
[2011/08/16 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: grr how was that query on Google to make it list things that link to a site (i.e. reverse search)?
[2011/08/16 16:09]  Ivy Sunkiller: so let’s be conservative and say that $250 of that 300 is their actual technological cost, hosting the servers, power, place where they put it etc.
[2011/08/16 16:09]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Rhi Biez
[2011/08/16 16:09]  ArtCrash Exonar: Let’s face the facts: SL makes money but is not rolling in it. Therefore the tier costs are consistent with what it costs to run SL and make a small profit.
[2011/08/16 16:09]  Qu1cks1lver: what’s LL?
[2011/08/16 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lem: near to zero, except the Google Affiliate Network thingy
[2011/08/16 16:09]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi Dhalgren
[2011/08/16 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: LL = Linden Lab, creators of Second Life
[2011/08/16 16:09]  Ivy Sunkiller: that still leaves $50 times many servers per month which still is a lot of money
[2011/08/16 16:10]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Dhalgren!
[2011/08/16 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn is still searching for that link on Google on her superslow computer
[2011/08/16 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: Boo WE are the creators of SL.
[2011/08/16 16:11]  ArtCrash Exonar: Did you notice that the tier fees in all the Open Sim worlds are FAR higher than when they first started. They had a real wake up call with those. And don’t forget, they are not developing the tech, just using it.
[2011/08/16 16:11]  Kimiko Yiyuan: brb
[2011/08/16 16:11]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hb Kim
[2011/08/16 16:11]  Wynd Ling: sorry folks gotta rebot sinc eit jsut did the update
[2011/08/16 16:12]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hb Wynd
[2011/08/16 16:12]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Best of luck
[2011/08/16 16:12]  Ivy Sunkiller: Gwyn: enough to say how many people do they actually employ? They can have little profit (as in proft if shareholders) if they have like 10000 employees each getting their not-small paycheck in time 🙂
[2011/08/16 16:12]  Extropia DaSilva: see you soon, all new and improved:)
[2011/08/16 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, calculations for 2008: nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2008/05/how-much-is-lin.html It’s a start. On my calculations for 2011, I pointed to that link, but Google can’t find my own comment.
[2011/08/16 16:12]  Ivy Sunkiller: Ivy Sunkiller looks up
[2011/08/16 16:12]  Extropia DaSilva: Google is like that, Gwyn.
[2011/08/16 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: 250 employees estimated, Ivy; average salary (gross) around 5000 per month or so
[2011/08/16 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The changes in teh calculations for 2011 are three-fold:
[2011/08/16 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) More sims, more people
[2011/08/16 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: I keep wanting Google to retrieve that comment where Hamlet says something nice about me. IT never does. Mabe I dreamed it?
[2011/08/16 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) Use of Amazon.com (actually that *increases* bandwidth costs, which actually surprised me)
[2011/08/16 16:13]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Complain not, yet you be the complain
[2011/08/16 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3) Higher density of sims-per-server
[2011/08/16 16:14]  Zobeid Zuma: What about Amazon.com? Did I miss something?
[2011/08/16 16:14]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, was that the one where he picks up the skkull?
[2011/08/16 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, it’s what LL uses to deliver most of the data.
[2011/08/16 16:14]  ArtCrash Exonar: The newer model servers have 32 core processors. This will keep changing.
[2011/08/16 16:15]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Yes Art, finally…….everything change
[2011/08/16 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: He does not pick up Yorik’s skull. It is some minor character who only appeares in that one scene.
[2011/08/16 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. This means that in terms of actual co-location cost, it remains sort of constant over time, only bandwidth costs go up., But…. bandwidth is cheaper in 2011 than it was in 2008
[2011/08/16 16:15]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, he did in the Mel Gibson version.
[2011/08/16 16:15]  Ivy Sunkiller: Zo: S3, nerd talk, you don’t need to know 🙂
[2011/08/16 16:15]  ArtCrash Exonar: ha ha
[2011/08/16 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: Maybe I am wrong. Been a while since I read Hamlet.
[2011/08/16 16:16]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Yes e does Ivy
[2011/08/16 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: ㋡
[2011/08/16 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles at Extie
[2011/08/16 16:16]  ArtCrash Exonar: I read Hamlet every day and he is really on this SL needs to change or die kick.
[2011/08/16 16:16]  Ivy Sunkiller: well 40mil profit from 96mil income doesn’t sound to me as little profit
[2011/08/16 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: He has been in it since… uh, when did he leave LL? 🙂
[2011/08/16 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: was it in 2007? 🙂
[2011/08/16 16:16]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2011/08/16 16:16]  Extropia DaSilva: To read it, or not to read it. THAT is the question…
[2011/08/16 16:17]  ArtCrash Exonar: Hamlet is a good soul at his core. His heart is in the right place.
[2011/08/16 16:17]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): there we got to the core of Hamlet’s psychology
[2011/08/16 16:17]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Isn’t 2007 when SL started? oh, maybe that was your point…
[2011/08/16 16:17]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): it’s … disappointed love
[2011/08/16 16:17]  Ivy Sunkiller: then again his estimate in terms of taxes is rather naive 🙂
[2011/08/16 16:17]  Extropia DaSilva: See when you are moderator you get to spout any olf off topic nonsense:))
[2011/08/16 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ivy: no, it’s not bad! LL is a rather profitable company that does NOT need venture capital and does NOT need to go public 🙂 What could be best? 🙂
[2011/08/16 16:17]  ArtCrash Exonar: He does go all ‘gangsta’ on twitter and plurk with the profanity though…. haha
[2011/08/16 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Extie
[2011/08/16 16:17]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): whether is is nobler in the mind to be ignorant, or by opposing become it
[2011/08/16 16:17]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, you define the topic
[2011/08/16 16:17]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And today, I would suggest therapy…lol
[2011/08/16 16:17]  Ivy Sunkiller: Gwyn: yes, exactly, and that was my point to begin with, they are just ripping us off on the sim costs! 😀
[2011/08/16 16:18]  Ivy Sunkiller: “oh we are poor so we will increase your sim price tag by 50%, and you have to buy it from us anyway, suckers!”
[2011/08/16 16:18]  Extropia DaSilva: Over at KurzweilAI they ran a pole asking who would be best to moderate the forum. I am currently 10 points ahead of my nearest competitor.
[2011/08/16 16:18]  Ivy Sunkiller: ran a pole? :O
[2011/08/16 16:19]  Lem Skall: Extie, you are Extropia there too?
[2011/08/16 16:19]  Laborious Aftermath: lol Ivy P
[2011/08/16 16:19]  Extropia DaSilva: yeah, Not like Toy runs a pole.
[2011/08/16 16:19]  ArtCrash Exonar: Sim costs have not increased on the mainland since I’ve been inworld…..
[2011/08/16 16:19]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): You have no competitor
[2011/08/16 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Note that Hamlet’s evaluation is a bit optimistic
[2011/08/16 16:19]  Extropia DaSilva: Of course I am Lem. Who else would I be?
[2011/08/16 16:19]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Rod!
[2011/08/16 16:19]  Lem Skall: is that a group in SL?
[2011/08/16 16:19]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): OI OI !!
[2011/08/16 16:19]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): OI OI !!
[2011/08/16 16:19]  Zobeid Zuma: Zobeid Zuma blinkblinks atta something. . .
[2011/08/16 16:19]  ArtCrash Exonar: oy rodherik
[2011/08/16 16:19]  Ivy Sunkiller: Art: I don’t do mainland stuff. In fact, I don’t even *understand* why mainland exists to begin with
[2011/08/16 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm. Now that’s an excellent topic for a discussion…
[2011/08/16 16:20]  ArtCrash Exonar: Ivy: mainland exists so people like me can afford a sim! haha
[2011/08/16 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why do we still have mainland? 🙂
[2011/08/16 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: Rod? Oh I thought it was Rod Humble come to give is his opinion. But never mind Roderik will do just as well:)
[2011/08/16 16:20]  Ivy Sunkiller: I guess they have to host all the ugly builds somewhere
[2011/08/16 16:20]  Zobeid Zuma: What the heck is *this* about?
[2011/08/16 16:20]  Ivy Sunkiller: Ivy Sunkiller reads
[2011/08/16 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Huh? lol
[2011/08/16 16:21]  Ivy Sunkiller: dare I say… ACHIVEMENTS!?
[2011/08/16 16:21]  Lem Skall: lol, there really is an Extropia there too: http://www.kurzweilai.net/forums/topic/poll-who-would-you-want-moderating-this-forum
[2011/08/16 16:21]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Oh god please no.
[2011/08/16 16:21]  Zobeid Zuma: Surely this is what SL needs: “lava pits, ravenous cube monsters, and automated gun turrets”
[2011/08/16 16:21]  Jamie McCarey: ‘game mech’: Another effort to make SL ‘familiar’ to Teh Massez… 🙂
[2011/08/16 16:21]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): dare I say…..love
[2011/08/16 16:21]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): right
[2011/08/16 16:21]  Ivy Sunkiller: “Engaged in BDSM play: 10 points!”
[2011/08/16 16:21]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): not the correct forum
[2011/08/16 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn wonders if it’s April 1
[2011/08/16 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: Well, Zo anytime you do someting in Sl like manage to get a friend or use a landmark or edit a prim you get a kind of ‘level up’ pr something to signify your progress in understanding the basics of SL. I think.
[2011/08/16 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, this is only for “new users”
[2011/08/16 16:22]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Good thought, G
[2011/08/16 16:22]  Kimiko Yiyuan: back
[2011/08/16 16:22]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, they actually keep track of that?
[2011/08/16 16:22]  Ivy Sunkiller: Guess buying and putting on boots will be like 10 levels then
[2011/08/16 16:22]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): A new April 1
[2011/08/16 16:22]  Ivy Sunkiller: and boots where you have to match your skin tone to prim feet will be like 40
[2011/08/16 16:22]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Then I must have gotten 10 levels when I finally figured out I needed to turn my auto cycle off to stop from going through all my poses
[2011/08/16 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: My comment on that from a year ago: http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2010/08/07/what-have-you-achieved/ (Hamlet has been suggesting “game-esque mechanics” for over a year now)
[2011/08/16 16:23]  Jamie McCarey: See, people aren’t satisfied with just learning something new… they have to get a trophy for it… 😀
[2011/08/16 16:23]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): true jamie
[2011/08/16 16:23]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): lol
[2011/08/16 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: they sort of did that during the Orientation Island.
[2011/08/16 16:23]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): but that ain’t only sl
[2011/08/16 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Very true, Jamie ㋡
[2011/08/16 16:23]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): rl’s the same
[2011/08/16 16:23]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I never even heard of Orientation Island
[2011/08/16 16:24]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Gotta go……got Puss and Boots fightin over territory, later……and Blessings….Namaste
[2011/08/16 16:24]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I plunged in, a lot of people helped the noob, and I return the favor when I can
[2011/08/16 16:24]  Kimiko Yiyuan: You must have been disoriented Rhi, to never get there. 😉
[2011/08/16 16:24]  ArtCrash Exonar: Anyone here been on farmville? That think works because it has forced interaction with others in order to get the carrots that are offered. Then those people become friends.
[2011/08/16 16:24]  Ivy Sunkiller: I heard of it, but I got out of any beginner/tutorial land ASAP
[2011/08/16 16:24]  Kimiko Yiyuan: But I never ended there either.
[2011/08/16 16:24]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Kim, I first was on a landing ;point, hit search, found Philosophy House, and took it from there
[2011/08/16 16:24]  Extropia DaSilva: What they are going to do is track your self-awakening from the infantile noob state ‘this is me’ to the childlike aug state ‘this is an extension of me’ and finally to the mature state of digital personhood where your avvie identity begins its divergence from your real self.
[2011/08/16 16:24]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): It too me months, may be over a year to find this group
[2011/08/16 16:24]  Ivy Sunkiller: Art: sort of like killing lich king in WoW, just with carrots
[2011/08/16 16:25]  Ivy Sunkiller: lich king, carrots, what’s the difference
[2011/08/16 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dream on, Extie — you can’t even track that in the real world, much less on a virtual one 😉
[2011/08/16 16:25]  Ivy Sunkiller: whispers: 😀
[2011/08/16 16:25]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Oh, I’m way diverged from my paratar; she hasn’t a clue to why I do some of what I do, until much later. And I don’t tell her
[2011/08/16 16:25]  ArtCrash Exonar: metaphorical carrots! heh
[2011/08/16 16:25]  Kimiko Yiyuan: I come to landing point and someone just started to talk to me and whooop took me with her to a private sim.
[2011/08/16 16:25]  Extropia DaSilva: As part of this scheme I am to be given a new title. ‘Buddha’.
[2011/08/16 16:25]  Jamie McCarey: You can’t stick Lich Kings in your ears? 😀
[2011/08/16 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn hands over a lightbulb to Extie
[2011/08/16 16:26]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Jamie, better your ears that, erm, other places
[2011/08/16 16:26]  Ivy Sunkiller: Jamie: for some reason I didn’t see “ears” in that line at first.
[2011/08/16 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol RHi!
[2011/08/16 16:26]  ArtCrash Exonar: Tell us oh Buddha. what is the meaning of Second Life…… heh
[2011/08/16 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: *Smiles, all benevolent like*
[2011/08/16 16:26]  Ivy Sunkiller: well, seems not only me…
[2011/08/16 16:26]  Jamie McCarey: Matter of opinion…. 😄
[2011/08/16 16:26]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Rhiannon of the Birds giggles at Gwyn
[2011/08/16 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The meaning of Second Life is the same as of First Life.
[2011/08/16 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: The objective of SL is to understand the objective of SL..
[2011/08/16 16:26]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Jamie, I suppose; I was thinking of cigarettes, acctually.
[2011/08/16 16:26]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Oh. I just lost the Game.
[2011/08/16 16:27]  Ivy Sunkiller: the meaning of first life is to increase in complexity
[2011/08/16 16:27]  Extropia DaSilva: It is not the flexi prim that waves. It is your mind.
[2011/08/16 16:27]  ArtCrash Exonar: bows in reverence to the sound of one hand slapping…… heh
[2011/08/16 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Waves or particles?
[2011/08/16 16:27]  Jamie McCarey: Sideways thinking, yay! 😀
[2011/08/16 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn particles…. I mean, waves!
[2011/08/16 16:27]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, no, the objective of SL is to allow you alternative wayst to interact with people. And yes, that is vague, but that’s because there are 50,000 users a day, so 50,000 ways
[2011/08/16 16:27]  Kimiko Yiyuan: beb
[2011/08/16 16:27]  Kimiko Yiyuan: brb
[2011/08/16 16:27]  ArtCrash Exonar: partiwavicles!
[2011/08/16 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: 50.000 users a day? Wasn’t it just 20 thousand?
[2011/08/16 16:28]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): 50000 users?
[2011/08/16 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Now* I’m impressed!
[2011/08/16 16:28]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I have to go…..take care, everyone 🙂
[2011/08/16 16:28]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, last time I looked, it was 50,000; never seen it down to 20,000 ever
[2011/08/16 16:28]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): i am sure that number decreases in the last few years
[2011/08/16 16:28]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): bye, Violet!
[2011/08/16 16:28]  Kimiko Yiyuan: back
[2011/08/16 16:28]  Extropia DaSilva: WB
[2011/08/16 16:28]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): no, that’s current as of a few weeks ago
[2011/08/16 16:28]  Kimiko Yiyuan: I have never seen it much over 50 000 either though.
[2011/08/16 16:28]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): *decreased
[2011/08/16 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rod: it has increased dramatically. Last year it was “Only” 10 thiousand a day
[2011/08/16 16:28]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I’ve seen it down to 40,000 when the grid collapsed
[2011/08/16 16:28]  Jamie McCarey: Well, but aren’t like 1/2 of current logins bots?
[2011/08/16 16:28]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): serious?
[2011/08/16 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[2011/08/16 16:29]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): i see less and less
[2011/08/16 16:29]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): and also less online
[2011/08/16 16:29]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Actually, there all alts of a guy named birric
[2011/08/16 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie: not really. 99% are humans and leave.
[2011/08/16 16:29]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): ahaha
[2011/08/16 16:29]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Yeah, I was discouraged for years when I heard the aveage twim spent in SL was like 2 minutes
[2011/08/16 16:29]  Extropia DaSilva: Really, Rhi?
[2011/08/16 16:29]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): *time
[2011/08/16 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh wait
[2011/08/16 16:29]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Yeah, I thought of joingin in 2007, but I heard that and didn’t
[2011/08/16 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: you mean concurrency
[2011/08/16 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I meant new users
[2011/08/16 16:30]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): well maybe my perception is distorted
[2011/08/16 16:30]  Jamie McCarey: Sorry, I should have said ‘concurrent logins…’
[2011/08/16 16:30]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Don’t know the figures on new users
[2011/08/16 16:30]  Kimiko Yiyuan: And those that stay are still humans, no matter whet they state. But you meet all kinds of people online. Thats what makes it interesting and annoying at the same time.
[2011/08/16 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: New users are around 18 thoiusand a day
[2011/08/16 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew
[2011/08/16 16:30]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): i haven’t logged for something like 4 or 5 months
[2011/08/16 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/sl-statistical-charts/
[2011/08/16 16:30]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): WB, Rod
[2011/08/16 16:30]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): thanks
[2011/08/16 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: Pffft I am not human.
[2011/08/16 16:31]  ArtCrash Exonar: The reason people see less and less online is party due to the fact that people leave and are replaced with others, but people don’t make new friends as fast as they made the old ones when they first came in…….
[2011/08/16 16:31]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): new users?
[2011/08/16 16:31]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): or alts?
[2011/08/16 16:31]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): None of are, Extie, although most of our paratars are
[2011/08/16 16:31]  Ivy Sunkiller: people come and go, sims come and go, you might see places that used to be crowded get deserted, but that doesn’t mean SL is dying
[2011/08/16 16:31]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Ivy, it seems to be turning a profit and attrating new users, so it’s fine
[2011/08/16 16:31]  Extropia DaSilva: A human is a biological species. I am not biological, ergo I am something other than human.
[2011/08/16 16:31]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): same as for scenes Ivy?
[2011/08/16 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: New registered userds, Rod: people that find SL and then leave.
[2011/08/16 16:31]  ArtCrash Exonar: I have 4 other alts myself and log in with 2 other besides me regularly…. ha ha
[2011/08/16 16:32]  Ivy Sunkiller: FFFC seems to be more and more corwded daily *grins*
[2011/08/16 16:32]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): FFFC, Ivy?
[2011/08/16 16:32]  Extropia DaSilva: Lem is regularly beside you, Art. Are you telling us something…?
[2011/08/16 16:32]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): i am sure there has been a decrease in new users
[2011/08/16 16:32]  ArtCrash Exonar: I am Lem!
[2011/08/16 16:32]  ArtCrash Exonar: haha
[2011/08/16 16:32]  Ivy Sunkiller: Rhi: oh I will not take the pleasure of finding that one out yourself 🙂
[2011/08/16 16:32]  Lem Skall: no you’re not
[2011/08/16 16:32]  ArtCrash Exonar: ha ha
[2011/08/16 16:32]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): simply cause sl has not much media exposure these days
[2011/08/16 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: that certainly depends on your definition of “I”. Your avatar’s body is certainly made of pixels, but surely the body is not where the “I” is?
[2011/08/16 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rod: no, new users has grown spectacularly.
[2011/08/16 16:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Concurrency has decreased.
[2011/08/16 16:33]  Extropia DaSilva: Oo see how can we know if you are or not?
[2011/08/16 16:33]  ArtCrash Exonar: just kidding
[2011/08/16 16:33]  Lem Skall: I have enough trouble keeping a conversation as myself
[2011/08/16 16:33]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): F****** Federal Firearm? Just can’t think what the C would mean
[2011/08/16 16:33]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): what you mean competition?
[2011/08/16 16:33]  Ivy Sunkiller: Rhi: almost there 🙂
[2011/08/16 16:33]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): like other metaverses?
[2011/08/16 16:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2011/08/16 16:33]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Control?
[2011/08/16 16:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The average person gets tired of everything after 2-3 years. It’s consumerism at its best 🙂
[2011/08/16 16:34]  Extropia DaSilva: Well Gwyn if I had a definitive answer to that, I would be the greatest philosopher who ever lived.
[2011/08/16 16:34]  Rodherik (rodherik.kultus): true
[2011/08/16 16:34]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, you’d be Ayn Rand?
[2011/08/16 16:34]  Extropia DaSilva: Anyway, my time is up!
[2011/08/16 16:34]  Ivy Sunkiller: Gwyn: that explains why I didn’t finish college, haha
[2011/08/16 16:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: not by far; a lot of people actually found the answer and encouraged others to find it on their own as well 🙂
[2011/08/16 16:34]  ArtCrash Exonar: You know what has increased a lot is how much money each spending avatar spends.
[2011/08/16 16:34]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Thanks for hosing ths, Extie
[2011/08/16 16:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ivy: don’t laugh! It’s true! That’s why in Europe the new degrees have decreased from 4-5 years to 2-3.
[2011/08/16 16:35]  Extropia DaSilva: NEXT WEEK, SOCIAL NETWORK CRACKDOWN..
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