THINKERS AUG 09 2011: FILTER BUBBLES

Don Henhouse at Thinkers

Extropia DaSilva: Welcome to Thinkers!
[2011/08/09 15:33]  tinguely: I wondered lonely as a cloud
[2011/08/09 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: today the topic is…
[2011/08/09 15:33]  Donell Henhouse: long as you don’t mind a shit-ton of lag 🙂
[2011/08/09 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: FILTER BUBBLES: According to Eli Pariser, “increasingly we don’t see the same Internet. We see stories and facts that make it through a membrane of personalized algorithms. The filter bubble is the personal, unique universe of information that results and that we increasingly live online”. What impact might this have?
[2011/08/09 15:34]  Donell Henhouse: anyway this is why I don’t come to mainland. Not only is it chocked full of crap and lag, but the people tend to be more arrogant. Go figure
[2011/08/09 15:34]  Kimiko Yiyuan: The question should probably be what impact this has already.
[2011/08/09 15:34]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): if you are focusing on lag 24/7, are you living inside a filter bubble?
[2011/08/09 15:34]  Donell Henhouse: I’m gonna go on a RL date with the hottie I’ve been seeing. That should fix the lag AND yall’s whining
[2011/08/09 15:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Typical scenario: use Google from different countries. The search results are different. Use it while logged in. Another different set of results. It’s not the same Internet!
[2011/08/09 15:35]  Lem Skall: we are used to be in a filter bubble anyway, we are influenced by the friends we have and we make friends from people who think similarly to us
[2011/08/09 15:35]  ArtCrash Exonar: The filter bubble will cause civil war in my opinion. Because alternate sides of issues will see no other arguments and therefore become radicalized.
[2011/08/09 15:35]  Zobeid Zuma: Hi Ivy!
[2011/08/09 15:35]  TR Amat: Is the “filter bubble” anything new? Haven’t people been reading the newspapers, and hanging out with, those they agree with, for centuries?
[2011/08/09 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: There you go, Lem. Perhaps the “impact” is that we suddenly realise it’s always been that way.
[2011/08/09 15:35]  Lem Skall: Art, we are radicalized anyway
[2011/08/09 15:35]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): google seems to be fairly unbiased. If you compare with television news channels, or paper
[2011/08/09 15:35]  Zobeid Zuma: I’m not!
[2011/08/09 15:36]  Lem Skall: if we are right wing we watch Fox and we just become more right winged
[2011/08/09 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Before newspapers, we had coffee shops to discuss the news… and we would go to the coffee shop which was more aligned with our ideology.
[2011/08/09 15:36]  Ivy Sunkiller: hoy hoy
[2011/08/09 15:36]  ArtCrash Exonar: TR, the difference is that we DON’T choose the information stream now, the filter does.
[2011/08/09 15:36]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): hi Ivy
[2011/08/09 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Good point, Art!
[2011/08/09 15:36]  Lem Skall: Art, the filter chooses it based on our choices though
[2011/08/09 15:36]  TR Amat: Is it relevant that a great deal of human behaviour is only based on rationality in a shakey way?
[2011/08/09 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, excellent point.
[2011/08/09 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: But is the Web more effective at filtering out opinions and facts you do not want to hear, but maybe should? I mean, compared to coffee shops?
[2011/08/09 15:37]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi Ivy, everyone 🙂
[2011/08/09 15:37]  Omenemo: But the journalists of the old fashioned newspapers or media are also filters
[2011/08/09 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi Ivy!)
[2011/08/09 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: hello Ivy
[2011/08/09 15:37]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Hi there Ivy.
[2011/08/09 15:37]  ArtCrash Exonar: I am very fearful of the filter bubble. I am already having trouble getting results in my searches.
[2011/08/09 15:37]  Lem Skall: Extie, the web is more effective in everything regarding information, both providing it and then filtering it, so you get more and less at the same time
[2011/08/09 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Omenemo… but I guess that Art’s point is true… we can choose what newspapers we read… we cannot choose what search results Google thinks it’s more appropriate for us.
[2011/08/09 15:38]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): it not merely the filtered view. Web adds the socializinh with mindlike influenced peers
[2011/08/09 15:38]  ArtCrash Exonar: I am switching from Google to Bing because it is less bubbled btw……..
[2011/08/09 15:38]  Omenemo: Gwyneth, I agree.
[2011/08/09 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art, you managed to worry me! Last week I thought that this topic wasn’t worth discussing much, since *everything* is filtered down anywa. But you just made me realise that for everything else but the Internet, I can choose the filters…
[2011/08/09 15:39]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): there was a searchemgine project originating from former google employes
[2011/08/09 15:39]  Laborious Aftermath: What happens when the algorithm is later changed or the cached user info is mined? Let along who decides what gets filtered, or how it gets filtered. And what happens when only a few filters are used by over 50% or 75% or 80-90% even.
[2011/08/09 15:39]  Extropia DaSilva: But..I might WANT a Web totally personalised to my tastes.
[2011/08/09 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Luh, really? Let me search for that…. no wait… Google is filtering it out! Uh-oh
[2011/08/09 15:39]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Run if you must Art, *smile*, wherever you search the findings are who you are
[2011/08/09 15:39]  ArtCrash Exonar: Yes, Gwyn, our information stream is in the control of others with questionable interests.
[2011/08/09 15:39]  Lem Skall: ok, but too much of the info that I get actually comes from search, I still go to a bunch of web sites for news anyway
[2011/08/09 15:40]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): originally the internet made a point for independence of information sources
[2011/08/09 15:40]  Lem Skall: sorry, I meant the opposite: NOT too much
[2011/08/09 15:40]  Laborious Aftermath: well as is you have to do some walk arounds to see some of the british sites in america here and the came for a few from china and russia and so on
[2011/08/09 15:40]  ArtCrash Exonar: I would suggest that you run a simple search for information using the three major search engines and see how different they are….
[2011/08/09 15:40]  Lem Skall: so really, how much does search filtering matter in the info that we get?
[2011/08/09 15:41]  tinguely: They are usually quite different for me, when I use a few
[2011/08/09 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: They’re *totally* different for me!
[2011/08/09 15:41]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): takeing an example: Al Jariza (Dscharisa?) which adds a new facette not-so-much-known inside taking for example cnn || for
[2011/08/09 15:41]  Lem Skall: Al Jazeera
[2011/08/09 15:41]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): When I use different search engines……I am amazed at how similar the results are…
[2011/08/09 15:41]  ArtCrash Exonar: You can really see in the google instant product how your own personal bubble shows up in the suggestions as you type in your search.
[2011/08/09 15:41]  Extropia DaSilva: when you say different, what do you mean?
[2011/08/09 15:42]  tinguely: It’s interesting to use the onion router as a proxy and set it in a different location, then search, finally comparing both
[2011/08/09 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ tinguely…. Google shows different results based on the country you are
[2011/08/09 15:42]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): search algorithms that adapt to user preferences
[2011/08/09 15:42]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): The onion is a good example
[2011/08/09 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie, just different — the results are NOT the same.
[2011/08/09 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Different criteria, different order
[2011/08/09 15:43]  Lem Skall: people people, do you get news about the riots in London based on the search engine that you use or based on the websites that you go to?
[2011/08/09 15:43]  ArtCrash Exonar: Luh, they are not adapting to user preferences as much as using the huge personal databases of the data mining companies to give you product choices….
[2011/08/09 15:43]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): The structure of the query influences the returned results
[2011/08/09 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Often there is not even much overlap, if it’s a “vague” term that gets hundreds of thousands of hits
[2011/08/09 15:43]  Laborious Aftermath: http://socialtimes.com/google-content-blocked_b23495
[2011/08/09 15:43]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): As in math
[2011/08/09 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lem: IU get the news from Wikipedia on that 😉
[2011/08/09 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *I
[2011/08/09 15:43]  TR Amat: I’ve been known to use a filter called the “BBC”. 🙂
[2011/08/09 15:43]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Searchers figure, and figures lie
[2011/08/09 15:44]  Lem Skall: pfft, wikipedia can’t change that fast
[2011/08/09 15:44]  Laborious Aftermath: yes I like the BBC stuff and find myself getting blocked more and more from it
[2011/08/09 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, there you go, TR! But in that case, you know things are filtered, and it’s your _choice_
[2011/08/09 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: Do you mean the websites suggested are in a different order of priority, or some search engines totally ignore some websites? Um, like if I use Bing it refers to BlahBlah.com but if I use Google it does not refer it at all?
[2011/08/09 15:44]  ArtCrash Exonar: wikipedia changes so fast it is mind blowing, Lem
[2011/08/09 15:44]  Laborious Aftermath: and in multiple engines
[2011/08/09 15:44]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): adaption of algorithms, and of course profiling from *cough* Facebook
[2011/08/09 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: both.
[2011/08/09 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: kk
[2011/08/09 15:44]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): once you are on Facehook, you dangle
[2011/08/09 15:44]  tinguely: I get annoyed when I cant get content based on my country, but i know it can be worked around. Filtered by country to beging with, harsh!
[2011/08/09 15:44]  Kimiko Yiyuan: I am with Extropia in parts here. I think too that there are a lot of people that probably really want there information personalized. Someone mentioned Fox news earlier and of course this whole phonomenon is nothing new. especially in the US the fragmentation and with it a kind of personalisation in media happens since the 1960#s. Especially when it comes to politics. With the internet this fragmentation of content became kind of rampant. And a lot of people just want it like that. Also because of the avalanches of information that are available now. People want guidance. The question is how far that really can or should go.
[2011/08/09 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: For instance, Google ranks results from their own sites higher (of course!) 🙂
[2011/08/09 15:45]  TR Amat: I also use a filter called the “Guardian newspaper” (previously the Manchester Guardian).
[2011/08/09 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bing tends to find more things on non-Google sites
[2011/08/09 15:45]  Extropia DaSilva: But is using one search engine akin to getting all your info from one book?IE bad practice for a serious researcher?
[2011/08/09 15:45]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Extropia….really….I am certain that you are aware that Google sells search terms, as well as search result order
[2011/08/09 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that’s a good point, I suppose
[2011/08/09 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: Mind I cannot talk. I use nothing but Google.
[2011/08/09 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Khannea: I’m fine with everything as long as I’m allowed to control things and not have it “imposed” on me 🙂
[2011/08/09 15:46]  TR Amat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_bubble – so, how much was this filtered? 🙂
[2011/08/09 15:46]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Oh right…..first do no evil
[2011/08/09 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh is Khannea here?
[2011/08/09 15:46]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): sspeaking of ebil?
[2011/08/09 15:46]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Maybe she meant Kimiko?
[2011/08/09 15:46]  Ivy Sunkiller: no Khani here, no 🙂
[2011/08/09 15:46]  ArtCrash Exonar: In searching for topics I’m interested in, I have sometimes been subverted and not given the direct information because in my previous searches I looked for something close and it keeps assuming I want the same thing, therefore subverting my search. This has happened several times to me.
[2011/08/09 15:47]  Extropia DaSilva: shame
[2011/08/09 15:47]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Perhaps in spirit
[2011/08/09 15:47]  TR Amat: I’ve not been impressed by Facebbok, and, it looks like Google doesn’t want my business…
[2011/08/09 15:47]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): yes, let’s get on Kimiko’s statement. Filtering not beeing very new effects … isntead usuall since the 60th
[2011/08/09 15:47]  tinguely: Deleted my facebook 3 weeks ago, so its probably permanentl deleted now
[2011/08/09 15:47]  Lem Skall: TR, what business do you have that google could be interested in?
[2011/08/09 15:47]  tinguely: y
[2011/08/09 15:47]  Extropia DaSilva: FB is like Microsoft. Everyone hates it. Nobody confesses to using it. And yet it is the monster runaway success. Odd.
[2011/08/09 15:48]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): “avalanches of information” surely make us crave for simplification
[2011/08/09 15:48]  Lem Skall: oh, I’m sure facebook is really hurt
[2011/08/09 15:48]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Really,, tinguely…….permanent deletion?
[2011/08/09 15:48]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): That is a complete other topic
[2011/08/09 15:48]  Omenemo: Fragmentation of content: If great parts of a country are not interested in politics, how can elections be a rational process?
[2011/08/09 15:48]  tinguely: They store your info for marketing
[2011/08/09 15:48]  Lem Skall: I confess I’m using FB
[2011/08/09 15:48]  TR Amat: Google doesn’t seem to be interested in the business of people with multiple alts – something I’ve had for 20+yrs (ignoring roleplaying games).
[2011/08/09 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: maybe not. How does FB affect this filter bubble thingy?
[2011/08/09 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: wb Gwyn
[2011/08/09 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: SL hates me…. and thank you
[2011/08/09 15:49]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Politics and rationale…..odd cocept
[2011/08/09 15:49]  TR Amat: I’m not convinced that rationality has a lot to do with politics. 🙂
[2011/08/09 15:49]  ArtCrash Exonar: Yes, Google is making an error I think, but they are making that error due to the idea that they can better mine your data with your real name. This isn’t necessarily true and any entity can be mined for data just as easily.
[2011/08/09 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe agreed TR
[2011/08/09 15:50]  tinguely: Well with fb, you create a network of friends, this is stored and used by ads to target you and your friends, using the info you give them
[2011/08/09 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: I notice I never hear any anti-transhumanist opinions on FB so I guess the filter is working well for me.
[2011/08/09 15:50]  TR Amat: What would I do if my different alts lived in different filter bubbles? 🙂
[2011/08/09 15:50]  Omenemo: @TR Amat: How do you want to legitimate the process, if not rationally?
[2011/08/09 15:50]  Laborious Aftermath: Open information gathered and mined threw transactions and personal site preferences and such are sold and stuff we may never need or want is targeted and marketed to us.
[2011/08/09 15:50]  Lem Skall: you don’t need friends on FB
[2011/08/09 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, TR, that’s actually interesting, because it’s an experiment I’ve been doing with Google — I have three ‘alts’ with completely different tastes. The results that Google spews out are most interesting.
[2011/08/09 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: Not so important as friends are here, no.
[2011/08/09 15:51]  TR Amat: Making politics into a process of informed, rational, decision making it likely to be a multi-generational effort…
[2011/08/09 15:51]  ArtCrash Exonar: tinguely, more insidiously, if you haven’t protected yourself, companies like right click, log every stroke of your keyboard into their databases about you. Spyware is amazingly prevalent. Hitting your computer hundreds or even thousands of times a day.
[2011/08/09 15:51]  tinguely: So maybe these filters will be improved, unfortunately, soley to target the client user better and more accurately
[2011/08/09 15:51]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): how much did these 3 differ? if they all had been based nto th same ersonality..
[2011/08/09 15:51]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Well, thats because for a long time people had not much other choice then choosing Mircosoft Extropia. And I am not talking about people that know where to get alternatives from, but the casual customer. Microsoft had almost a monopoly, also due to some well…not so nice business practices at times…and thats why it was and in great parts is still so successfull and “everybody” is using it.
[2011/08/09 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What do you mean, “had”? 🙂
[2011/08/09 15:52]  tinguely: So then the filter is for marketing to create more ads targetted better at us
[2011/08/09 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: what is right click? Tell me, do not send a URL
[2011/08/09 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Obviously tinguely… what else might it be for?
[2011/08/09 15:52]  TR Amat: I do tend to have a great deal of rather diverse interests…
[2011/08/09 15:52]  tinguely: definately not for convenience
[2011/08/09 15:53]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Um Ex, the opposite of wrong click?
[2011/08/09 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Luh: that was the point. They were not 🙂
[2011/08/09 15:53]  tinguely: as some make it out to be
[2011/08/09 15:53]  Omenemo: Well, it’s a Kantian ideal you will never reach it, but it’s a point of orientation.
[2011/08/09 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ tinguely. So true.
[2011/08/09 15:53]  ArtCrash Exonar: The problem with making an algorhythm about ‘you’ is that A) you won’t be surprised by the new and B) you will have no idea that what you think you know might be incorrect.
[2011/08/09 15:53]  Extropia DaSilva: hahaha Arch:)
[2011/08/09 15:53]  Kimiko Yiyuan: If you want to get some “anti-transhumanst” opinions some time Extropia, just ask me. I try to be filterfree then. :p
[2011/08/09 15:53]  tinguely: Katherine hayles comes close
[2011/08/09 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: Art, I am always aware that what I think I know may not be correct.
[2011/08/09 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: the problem is that most businesses consider that A and B are not “problems” but *features*
[2011/08/09 15:54]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Ok ok Gyen…has *L
[2011/08/09 15:54]  TR Amat: The CTRL+SHIFT+DEL key combination which can trash your cookies and other stored stuff in Firefox might be worth occasionally considered – like, maybe after visiting each new site? 🙂
[2011/08/09 15:54]  ArtCrash Exonar: Extie, there are many datamining companies that target every computer in the world to mine whatever information they can. They then sell this information to advertisers.
[2011/08/09 15:54]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Gwyn
[2011/08/09 15:54]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): I choose a reality, 1st 2nd 3rd…xth, where I am myself
[2011/08/09 15:54]  Lem Skall: but do filters really hide info from you or are they just prioritizing it differently?
[2011/08/09 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: They hide it.
[2011/08/09 15:54]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): I am already in the machine
[2011/08/09 15:55]  ArtCrash Exonar: BTW, if you haven’t already install this: http://superantispyware.com/
[2011/08/09 15:55]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): even the one called real
[2011/08/09 15:55]  Lem Skall: I doubt they hide anything major, they may hide a little that is from competitors that’s all
[2011/08/09 15:55]  ArtCrash Exonar: Lem, they actually don’t give you alternative information at all.
[2011/08/09 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s very fun to watch, actually, but it takes a long time to get Google to profile one’s alts. I’m talking about 5 years of profiling data 🙂
[2011/08/09 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… depends on “major”
[2011/08/09 15:55]  Lem Skall: Art, what is alternative information?
[2011/08/09 15:55]  Extropia DaSilva: Fine by me, Art. I want my patterns stored and scrutinzed. After all, how else is the AGI going to be tweaked to become my replacement primary? One day, Google or its successor will model; our minds so completely our avatars will live on after our meatbodies perish. I have forsseen it!
[2011/08/09 15:56]  Lem Skall: if you search for abortion in Seattle, will they send you only to a church?
[2011/08/09 15:56]  TR Amat: To be profiled, do you need to be logged-in to Google, then?
[2011/08/09 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: good question Lem!
[2011/08/09 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: TR: no!
[2011/08/09 15:56]  ArtCrash Exonar: Lem: information that contradicts what you have input in your spyware google yahoo whatever profile, that btw, you have no control over.
[2011/08/09 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But if you are, the profiling data will work across browsers/computers
[2011/08/09 15:56]  Free Radar HUD: Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
[2011/08/09 15:57]  tinguely: I like the idea of the avatar living on after death, but i hope after my death the life of my pc is still lasting
[2011/08/09 15:57]  Omenemo: To search, you gotta know already many things – if you don’t know about abortion, you can’t search for it.
[2011/08/09 15:57]  Lem Skall: sorry, Art, I don’t know what that means, please explain
[2011/08/09 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gosh, who is still using free rada HUDs? This is 2011; every SL Viewer has a built-in radar…
[2011/08/09 15:57]  ArtCrash Exonar: data miners and spyware are in all computers …. ALL
[2011/08/09 15:57]  TR Amat: So, I normally run from behind a company firewall, and I’m definitely not the only user of the IP address, or any particular machine – are they prifiling the company then, not me?
[2011/08/09 15:57]  ArtCrash Exonar: unless you firewall them out completely
[2011/08/09 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless you’ve also turned cookies off…
[2011/08/09 15:58]  ArtCrash Exonar: cookies is a small part of it Gwyn
[2011/08/09 15:58]  Zobeid Zuma: There’s no data miners or spyware in my Atari 800.
[2011/08/09 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, ironically, Google Chrome has an “anonymous” mode 🙂
[2011/08/09 15:58]  Extropia DaSilva: My primary runs a full scan every week, and al least 9 spyware items are found each time.
[2011/08/09 15:58]  Lem Skall: Art, give me an example
[2011/08/09 15:58]  tinguely: If you use your mind instead of a web broswer you dont get spyware
[2011/08/09 15:58]  Laborious Aftermath: or amke a cookie monster script
[2011/08/09 15:58]  TR Amat: I regularly trash cooking while browsing, or, use Opera that lets me choose which cookies I accept…
[2011/08/09 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: yes, it is; however, it’s very useful for Google to track you down behind a corporate firewall.
[2011/08/09 15:58]  oldschool: oldschool Radar HUD v0.5 by Crystal Gadgets
[2011/08/09 15:58]  TR Amat: cookies*
[2011/08/09 15:58]  ArtCrash Exonar: If you are on the internet your data is being mined. Unless you have really set up a set of firewalls and antispyware programs
[2011/08/09 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: In that case, TR, you’ll probably just have a country/regional filter and nothing more
[2011/08/09 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: using the web and never getting infected is like living ih RL and never getting germs: Impossible.
[2011/08/09 15:59]  Laborious Aftermath: even with that your data is being mined
[2011/08/09 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: agreed… for the poor WIndows users.
[2011/08/09 15:59]  TR Amat: No point in using Linux instead of Windows to get more protection?
[2011/08/09 15:59]  Lem Skall: Art, I meant an example of “information that contradicts what you have input in your spyware google yahoo whatever profile, that btw, you have no control over”
[2011/08/09 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not from browsing the Web, no 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:00]  ArtCrash Exonar: You will be shocked when you see the results of how many attacks your firewall and anitspyware devices deflect in one day.
[2011/08/09 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hehe Art, you’re soooo right.
[2011/08/09 16:00]  ArtCrash Exonar: hundreds or thousands
[2011/08/09 16:00]  Extropia DaSilva: Gwyn even Mac users need to get infor OUT of their computers, which leaves them vulnerable to exploitation. The only totally secure system is one that leats NOBODY access anything, period.
[2011/08/09 16:00]  tinguely: If you set temp internet files on a seperate partition, even a pen drive, you can wipe it clean, same with any other directories the browser uses
[2011/08/09 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s always a surprise to me, too.
[2011/08/09 16:00]  Laborious Aftermath: if you have a ISP then your being mined and if your on the net your being mined. Goverment is only one that does that with things like deep packet sniffing
[2011/08/09 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: if it’s info that goes OUT, then malware cannot come IN 😉 Simple logic 😉
[2011/08/09 16:00]  Laborious Aftermath: simple man in the middle and mine all the info
[2011/08/09 16:00]  TR Amat: I do check my firewalls, anti-virus and anti-spyware reasonably often – attacks seem to vary…
[2011/08/09 16:00]  ArtCrash Exonar: This idea that Macs are immune is hilariously ludicrous.
[2011/08/09 16:01]  Lem Skall: what does dat amining have to do with filtering? they go in opposite directions
[2011/08/09 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree. It’s a fact, not an idea 😉
[2011/08/09 16:01]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): Macs are holy .. they shine in the dark room
[2011/08/09 16:01]  Omenemo: Another point is: will our information bubble be examined by the state, so that a police officer visits me because I searched for information about weed?
[2011/08/09 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course they do, since 2000 at least!
[2011/08/09 16:01]  ArtCrash Exonar: Filtering comes from the results of datamining
[2011/08/09 16:01]  TR Amat: You really can’t do much if anything about your ISP if they are spying on you…
[2011/08/09 16:02]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Yes you are constantly mined and monitored and whenever you get online your digital shadow becomes bigger and more defined. Search engines know what you have typed in, they know which links you then clisked. Online Shops keep track of what you buy. Online travel sites know what destinations you look for, how much money you want to spend on your vacation and in the end where you go.
[2011/08/09 16:02]  tinguely: Well, Macs, Linux distros and Windows have a nice mother called UNIX, all can be secured equally with the know how
[2011/08/09 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Omenemo: I agree. However, in the 21st century, who cares about the government? They’re weenies. We should fear megacorps, not their puppets, the governments…
[2011/08/09 16:02]  Lem Skall: so google uses spyware on me to filter my searches?
[2011/08/09 16:02]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): What did ever happen to the Freedom Foundation?
[2011/08/09 16:02]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): Omen, weed prolly not … but if they believe you beeing the spokesperson for anonymous, jail for sure
[2011/08/09 16:02]  Extropia DaSilva: Art, if 1% of all macs get infected that is like 3 computers but if 1% of all Windows based computers get infected it is like 300 billion. So it looks worse, much worse, for the far far far more popular Windows:)
[2011/08/09 16:02]  Zobeid Zuma: windows isn’t based on Unix
[2011/08/09 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arch FSF? They’re still around., Still winning a few cases
[2011/08/09 16:02]  tinguely: It comes from it
[2011/08/09 16:02]  TR Amat: Is there any point in running multiple ISPs in parallel?
[2011/08/09 16:02]  Laborious Aftermath: ROFL extropia 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:03]  ArtCrash Exonar: We are not talking viruses here Gwyn and Extie, we are talking data mining. different animals
[2011/08/09 16:03]  Zobeid Zuma: There’s the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
[2011/08/09 16:03]  Kimiko Yiyuan: In that case that would be irrellevant then, because then megacorps are the government and the government their arm…and they can still send the police to you then.
[2011/08/09 16:03]  Omenemo: Ba times
[2011/08/09 16:03]  Omenemo: Bad times
[2011/08/09 16:03]  Extropia DaSilva: Same (slightlu exagerrated) logic applies, Art:)
[2011/08/09 16:03]  Laborious Aftermath: multiple ISP’s you can do some tricks but still everything on the net is mined
[2011/08/09 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie, Macs cannot be “infected”; that’s a myth. Of course, when Mac users give applications their root password (which they do all teh time), that’s like leaving your home with teh door open and putting a sign next to it: “Thieves! No keys needed! Please come in!”
[2011/08/09 16:03]  Extropia DaSilva: Anyway, as I said datamining is good.
[2011/08/09 16:03]  ArtCrash Exonar: Laborious is right here
[2011/08/09 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: You can’t prorgramme anything against basic human stupidity 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:03]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Yes, there can be a new holocaust, Laborious,,,,,,,,tho not pc to call it that
[2011/08/09 16:04]  TR Amat: So, past a certain point, you need multiple ats, multiple ISPs, Linix PCs, and anonymous re-routing through other countries? 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:04]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): pogram/ pogramme
[2011/08/09 16:04]  TR Amat: alts*
[2011/08/09 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: of course it’s good! It’s a 40+ billion USD industry! How can it be “bad”?
[2011/08/09 16:04]  Lem Skall: forget data mining, you should worry about wireless providers knowing wherever you have been
[2011/08/09 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: TR: use Tor 😉
[2011/08/09 16:04]  ArtCrash Exonar: TR, if you totally want to be secure, it takes that kind of effort….. heh
[2011/08/09 16:04]  Extropia DaSilva: I mean, seriousy why get so angsy about targetted advertising? It is better than UNtargetted advertising aka spam:)
[2011/08/09 16:05]  TR Amat: Write your own version of Tor? 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:05]  Laborious Aftermath: why a holocost? they are trying to sell you things or change your mind or perceptions of things from the data they gather on you and then push to you
[2011/08/09 16:05]  tinguely: I just block all ads
[2011/08/09 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I love targetted advertising myself 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:05]  Lem Skall: Lab, push you towards what?
[2011/08/09 16:05]  Laborious Aftermath: buying or thinking a way or such
[2011/08/09 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just don’t like getting banned/excluded from some sites because of my personal tastes…
[2011/08/09 16:05]  Lem Skall: or push what to you?
[2011/08/09 16:05]  TR Amat: I object to the fact that I don’t have an agreement with the advertisers about them advertising at me.
[2011/08/09 16:05]  Laborious Aftermath: normaly sales induced market at this point
[2011/08/09 16:05]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Hiding in plain sight is still a good strategy, Gwyneth
[2011/08/09 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, that’s an interesting legal question.
[2011/08/09 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe arch — true!
[2011/08/09 16:06]  Kimiko Yiyuan: So in that case the police officer will not visit you because you searched for weed, but because they might think you bought a pirated product online or downlowded something….and in fact you already get a visit from the police then haha
[2011/08/09 16:06]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): BTW, have you been to Torchwood in Wales?
[2011/08/09 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not me…
[2011/08/09 16:06]  ArtCrash Exonar: The difference nowadays is that your ‘type’ is being profiled and that search results are being sent to you according to that typing. Objective results are a thing of the past and this is bad in my opinion. I doesn’t let you decide. It makes the decision for you.
[2011/08/09 16:06]  tinguely: Yeah it’s not far
[2011/08/09 16:06]  Lem Skall: I like it on porn sites where they give me links like “if you like underage boys, then here some more links”
[2011/08/09 16:06]  TR Amat: I believe you can look at Cardiff with Google Maps. 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:06]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Exactly Art. The Digital Shadow.
[2011/08/09 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lem ㋡
[2011/08/09 16:06]  Extropia DaSilva: I wish you had not been banned from FB, Gwyn. I consider any social network that does not include you among my friends as being well…incomplete.
[2011/08/09 16:06]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): Torchwood? original name? or just now after the riots?
[2011/08/09 16:07]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): OMG…..who ever said anything about things being fair?
[2011/08/09 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Don’t worry, Extie, social networking sites will be just a nightmare of the past by 2025 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:07]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Spam is like a hawker on the street; targeted ads are like a stalker following you home 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: If I wanted the truth about those riots would I be better off with news chanels like BBC and fox, or readinfg Twitter feeds and FB wall posts?
[2011/08/09 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh Violet — that’s almost a poem!
[2011/08/09 16:07]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Hey, by the way. Those Anonymous hackers said they will crash FB on the 4th of November. haha
[2011/08/09 16:07]  tinguely: BBC
[2011/08/09 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: there is no truth 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:08]  Lem Skall: Extie, you’re better off with Al jazeera
[2011/08/09 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just opinions 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:08]  TR Amat: I wonder if I should go looking for robot porn, to see if that alters my search results? 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:08]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Not only crash it, but actually destroy it, they said. hmmm
[2011/08/09 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lem is almost right!
[2011/08/09 16:08]  Lem Skall: almost?
[2011/08/09 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: I do not think they would have me, Lem
[2011/08/09 16:08]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): 😀
[2011/08/09 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: TR: to make a difference, you have to do it constantly over a period of several months 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: I am not their type.
[2011/08/09 16:08]  Lem Skall: Extie, I really recommend their iPad app
[2011/08/09 16:08]  tinguely: I typed ‘ leave me alone ‘ in google a few times lol
[2011/08/09 16:08]  ArtCrash Exonar: Have you all been following the Google + identity fiasco? Do you think someone will come up with social networking that accepts all forms of identity as equal? Or is that just not going to happen?
[2011/08/09 16:08]  TR Amat: I probably don’t have the patience…
[2011/08/09 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Lem, almost; because Al Jazeera is not absolutely unbiased. It’s just that they have different biases than CNN, Fox, BBC…
[2011/08/09 16:09]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): FB already lost it. At least in public opinion
[2011/08/09 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art: we have it since 2003; it’s called Second Life. Clearly, not a success 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:09]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Maynard Keynes, and his son, understood why those riots happen…….just that their solutions no longer work…..nor do Milton Freedman’s nor Ayn Rands’s
[2011/08/09 16:09]  ArtCrash Exonar: ha ha Gwyn
[2011/08/09 16:09]  Lem Skall: Al Jazeera has a bias in WHAT they present, not in HOW they present it
[2011/08/09 16:09]  Lem Skall: at least in English
[2011/08/09 16:09]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): We have to find our own solutions
[2011/08/09 16:10]  ArtCrash Exonar: Except for Second Life REQUIRED alternative names, which is different.
[2011/08/09 16:10]  TR Amat: I was looking at buying a HTC Chacha – but, I’m concerned they make too much of its Facebbok button. 😉
[2011/08/09 16:10]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): so I can choose. so I have differently biased news sources
[2011/08/09 16:10]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): that still does not help me
[2011/08/09 16:10]  tinguely: But what about people who dont think or care about filters and bubbles, what will happen to them?
[2011/08/09 16:10]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): there is to much happening at every time
[2011/08/09 16:10]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Yeah well, from that point of view nobody is unbiased anyway. Nor can anybody be unbiased and totally objective. That is a myth too.
[2011/08/09 16:10]  Lem Skall: Luh, you balance with different sources, never use just one
[2011/08/09 16:10]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): to compare all thes biases news for extracting some truth
[2011/08/09 16:11]  ArtCrash Exonar: Most people don’t delve into the why of anything, so it will go unnoticed. tinguely
[2011/08/09 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: I have been following it. Somehow, my own G+ account is still active. Which is incredible! I mean, my ‘about’ could not be more blatent in its declaration that I am a digital person and not anyone ‘real’ by Google’s impoverished reckoning. I guess someone at the company likes me:)
[2011/08/09 16:11]  Omenemo: I have fear – how can we prevent a new holocaust?
[2011/08/09 16:11]  Lem Skall: Luh, you have to anyway
[2011/08/09 16:11]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): you would need 48 hours a day
[2011/08/09 16:11]  Zobeid Zuma: Try changing your name, Extie.
[2011/08/09 16:11]  tinguely: Thats a real shame
[2011/08/09 16:11]  Lem Skall: I don’t even have a G+ acccount
[2011/08/09 16:11]  Zobeid Zuma: Or even better, put a couple of chinese characters into it.
[2011/08/09 16:11]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): and once you start to simplify your life .. sticking with FOX for example .. you slowly radicalize
[2011/08/09 16:11]  TR Amat: Some people just wan to get on with their lives, they don’t care one way or another about a filter buble as long as it doesn’t get in their way?
[2011/08/09 16:12]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): By being willing to die Omenemo:
[2011/08/09 16:12]  ArtCrash Exonar: BTW, I have read a LOT these last couple of weeks on how to define what a ‘real’ name is. Bottom line = impossible
[2011/08/09 16:12]  Omenemo: Are you?
[2011/08/09 16:12]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Most people wouldn’t notice a good bubble. The world would just look exactly like they think it should.
[2011/08/09 16:12]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): and how about unreal names?
[2011/08/09 16:12]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Not by seeking death
[2011/08/09 16:12]  Extropia DaSilva: No. This is my name. I like it. I am not changing it. I am not TRYING to get banned. I just…do not like lying, you know? I tell people what I am, and if they do not like it, well, they can just not follow me:)
[2011/08/09 16:12]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): But by being willing
[2011/08/09 16:12]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): wb Gwyn, your net really hates you
[2011/08/09 16:12]  Extropia DaSilva: wb again Gwyn!
[2011/08/09 16:12]  Lem Skall: try Suq Madiq as a real name
[2011/08/09 16:13]  tinguely: Do you think there is potential here to inadvertently oppose or ignore freedom of information law, by creating these heavily focussed filters?
[2011/08/09 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn needs a new router, this one filters me out of SL
[2011/08/09 16:13]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): wb Gwyn 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:13]  ArtCrash Exonar: does anyone know where ‘rebake’ is on the Viewer 2 beta?
[2011/08/09 16:14]  Lem Skall: no conflict with freedom of information law as long as you have access to other sources
[2011/08/09 16:14]  TR Amat: Some of the broadband providers are giving ‘free’ routers to persuade you to upgrade to faster broaband…
[2011/08/09 16:14]  Extropia DaSilva: I assumed it is CTRL ALT R, Art.
[2011/08/09 16:14]  TR Amat: At least in the UK…
[2011/08/09 16:14]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): men u called avatar health … 1st one
[2011/08/09 16:14]  TR Amat: Yes, CTRL+ALT+R still works on viever 2.
[2011/08/09 16:14]  ArtCrash Exonar: ahhh thanks
[2011/08/09 16:14]  tinguely: There is hope then
[2011/08/09 16:15]  ArtCrash Exonar: I look in the menus and they move stuff around with every release.
[2011/08/09 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, well, TR, my own router was bought after dumnping the provider’s “free” router — but it’s an old router, like everything in my home hehe
[2011/08/09 16:15]  TR Amat: I often see new routers offered free on local Freecycle…
[2011/08/09 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway… from a political point of view, I hope that he public reads more Gibson and Sterling and understands that the “problem” is not government. Not anymore. It’s corporations, and how they can pretty much ignore each and every law when signing contracts with you.
[2011/08/09 16:16]  TR Amat: I got a cardboard DIY robot on Freecycle. 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:16]  ArtCrash Exonar: I have a funny story: I bought a wifi router and didn’t password protect it. My system started running slow, especially at night. Come to find out the neighbors were downloading bit torrent porn and using my whole connection just about!. ha haha
[2011/08/09 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Governments are just puppets. And as puppets — harmless.
[2011/08/09 16:16]  ArtCrash Exonar: Truth Gwyn
[2011/08/09 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aw I’m glad you can laugh at that, Art 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:17]  tinguely: The island of Niue, gets free internet all around, not bad going
[2011/08/09 16:17]  ArtCrash Exonar: Simple fix Gwyn
[2011/08/09 16:17]  tinguely: it has a funny youtube channel too
[2011/08/09 16:17]  Extropia DaSilva: Philip K Dick write a story, the basis of which was, everytime your PC crashes or yourkeys go missing, it is this secretive agency direcxting your life so you meet the right person, or miss them, or whatever little nudges they think you need so your life pans out according to their plan.
[2011/08/09 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Island of Madeira is also mostly wired with free wi-fi
[2011/08/09 16:17]  TR Amat: I wonder if there is any truth about backdoors being designed into routers, either on a software or hardware level? Filtering you entire life…
[2011/08/09 16:17]  tinguely: Ubik?
[2011/08/09 16:18]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): I am suprised that you allowed it to happen Art………the world evolves quickley.
[2011/08/09 16:18]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I like that, Extie…
[2011/08/09 16:18]  ArtCrash Exonar: It’s funny that in recent years, we all need routers because one computer is no longer enough……
[2011/08/09 16:18]  Extropia DaSilva: no ‘the Adjustment….something.
[2011/08/09 16:18]  TR Amat: Lots of fun PKD novels…
[2011/08/09 16:18]  tinguely: beaureau
[2011/08/09 16:18]  tinguely: ?
[2011/08/09 16:18]  Extropia DaSilva: yeah
[2011/08/09 16:18]  tinguely: I really like phillip k dick
[2011/08/09 16:19]  Extropia DaSilva: Me too.
[2011/08/09 16:19]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I remember that story…the protagonist slips “backstage”
[2011/08/09 16:19]  Extropia DaSilva: He is an adroid now, you know.
[2011/08/09 16:19]  tinguely: Probably not as much as you though, for my reason is obvious
[2011/08/09 16:19]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Today’s misspelling is tommorrow’s linqua franca
[2011/08/09 16:19]  tinguely: I’m glad
[2011/08/09 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I love that, Arch 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:19]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): An android on the run 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:19]  Kimiko Yiyuan: In fact we now have reached the point – and the internet did a great deal to help us to get there – to finally put the concepts of postmodernity into effect: Everything is of the same importance, everything is the truth and a lie to the same exent.
[2011/08/09 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: … and definiteluy dreaming of electric sheep?
[2011/08/09 16:20]  TR Amat: “Eye in the Sky” was fun…
[2011/08/09 16:20]  Omenemo: Does anyone of you believe that there wont be a next holocaust? I don’t.
[2011/08/09 16:20]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Blessings et Namaste, Sister G
[2011/08/09 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: Yeah, Deckard is after him for sure:)
[2011/08/09 16:20]  ArtCrash Exonar: So If I was to start reading Philip K. Dick, what book should I start with?
[2011/08/09 16:20]  Zobeid Zuma: Is IP6 gonna make us even easier to track?
[2011/08/09 16:20]  Lem Skall: what constitutes a holocaust?
[2011/08/09 16:20]  tinguely: I foud him throuh Blade runner yes, when i realized it was based on that book
[2011/08/09 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Depends on what you mean by “holocaust”, Omenemo….
[2011/08/09 16:20]  Omenemo: Mass murder.
[2011/08/09 16:20]  TR Amat: “Man in a High Castle”? 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:20]  Lem Skall: mass murder happens all the time
[2011/08/09 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d also recommend “Man in a High Castle” 😉
[2011/08/09 16:21]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): A Scanner Darkly’s a good place to start
[2011/08/09 16:21]  tinguely: thanks :]
[2011/08/09 16:21]  Omenemo: I mean another dimension, like third world war.
[2011/08/09 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: Does the sun expanding as a red giant and frying all humans not uploaded into computronium and beamed acroiss the galaxy count as a holocaust? If so, then yes I think It will happen again.
[2011/08/09 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm.
[2011/08/09 16:21]  TR Amat: Looking at how much rationality there is in day-to-day life can be fascinating…
[2011/08/09 16:21]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Holocaust in the sense of industrial organized massmurder?
[2011/08/09 16:21]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Art, walk into a library……or use a kindle….whatever floats your boat…..look for the name Dick….then grab it
[2011/08/09 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: A world-wide war is too expensive…. it’s much better to hit small countries that cannot defend themselves, and help to rebuild them later on… while getting all their oil… and afterwards sell them more weapons.
[2011/08/09 16:22]  ArtCrash Exonar: Thanks for the recommends, I’m just finishing my book and need a new couple! heh
[2011/08/09 16:22]  tinguely: sound investment
[2011/08/09 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arch 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:22]  Lem Skall: what is a world war? is the invasion of Afghanistan by several countries a world war?
[2011/08/09 16:22]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Hm, where have I heard that before Gwyn? Hmmmm haha
[2011/08/09 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: OO you say Zeitgeist addendum, Gwyn.
[2011/08/09 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: *saw
[2011/08/09 16:22]  TR Amat: I recommend reading Charles Stross books. 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No 🙂 There wasn’t even a declaration of war 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn grins @ Kimiko 😉
[2011/08/09 16:22]  ArtCrash Exonar: I am hard on books, I bend the pages and spill stuff on them! So I buy them.
[2011/08/09 16:22]  tinguely: And Iian Banks
[2011/08/09 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, i didn’t see it
[2011/08/09 16:22]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Lem, a World War is a legacy my father left me to tell
[2011/08/09 16:22]  Lem Skall: Art, try kindle or ipad
[2011/08/09 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh me too! Especially Accelerando. Did you know, that is where the term ‘primary’ came from?
[2011/08/09 16:22]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Declarations of War our out of fashion since the end of WW”2.
[2011/08/09 16:23]  Omenemo: A war nearly all over the world
[2011/08/09 16:23]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): He was a sargeant in the D Day invasion of WW2
[2011/08/09 16:23]  Kimiko Yiyuan: are
[2011/08/09 16:23]  ArtCrash Exonar: I’m a Luddite when it comes to Kindle etc.. ha ha
[2011/08/09 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kimiko: oh yes. It was cleverly done.
[2011/08/09 16:23]  tinguely: yes
[2011/08/09 16:23]  Lem Skall: Arch, was your father a survivor of the holocaust?
[2011/08/09 16:23]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): No
[2011/08/09 16:23]  Extropia DaSilva: BTW if anyone cares that we have gone off topic, do say, Otherwise, carry on as you are.
[2011/08/09 16:23]  ArtCrash Exonar: Is the kindle experience actually as good as a book?
[2011/08/09 16:23]  Extropia DaSilva: Better
[2011/08/09 16:23]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Me too, Art 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:23]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Lem, he was a Baptist
[2011/08/09 16:23]  TR Amat: Lots of free science fiction on websubscription…
[2011/08/09 16:23]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): From North Carolina
[2011/08/09 16:24]  ArtCrash Exonar: hy better, Extie?
[2011/08/09 16:24]  Lem Skall: then what your father left you is peanuts
[2011/08/09 16:24]  ArtCrash Exonar: why
[2011/08/09 16:24]  tinguely: Necromancer
[2011/08/09 16:24]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): But he knew the way
[2011/08/09 16:24]  tinguely: ?
[2011/08/09 16:24]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Although I’d like for ebooks to work, they just….don’t, for me
[2011/08/09 16:24]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): For lots of reasons
[2011/08/09 16:24]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Indeed Gwyn.
[2011/08/09 16:24]  ArtCrash Exonar: Necromancer or Neuromancer?
[2011/08/09 16:24]  tinguely: the latter
[2011/08/09 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nuromancer.
[2011/08/09 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oops
[2011/08/09 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can’t type with the lag! lol
[2011/08/09 16:25]  tinguely: my oops is bigger lol
[2011/08/09 16:25]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Too bad nobody paid attention to my nice postmodernistic statement. hmpf
[2011/08/09 16:25]  Lem Skall: Arch, your father didn’t even experience the world war in his own country
[2011/08/09 16:25]  Extropia DaSilva: Instant access to two full dictionaries, Get a reference book within moments of finding it exists. Access to wikipedia and the Web whenever you want it, for free. Tens of thousands of books taking up no space at all. Instant access to any part of the book with computerised search. I LOVE the Kindle!
[2011/08/09 16:25]  TR Amat: Try here: http://www.webscription.net/10.1125/Baen/0743435370/0743435370___3.htm (origin of film “Surrogates”)
[2011/08/09 16:25]  ArtCrash Exonar: I read Neuromancer back in the day! ha ha as well as SnowCrash.
[2011/08/09 16:25]  Laborious Aftermath: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1037220/fullcredits
[2011/08/09 16:25]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): No Lem……My ggrandparents did
[2011/08/09 16:25]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): The US civil war
[2011/08/09 16:26]  ArtCrash Exonar: ArtCrash is a child of SnowCrash actually! ha ha
[2011/08/09 16:26]  Lem Skall: that’s not a world war
[2011/08/09 16:26]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Maybe it was too late for it since the discussion was laready spiralling into SciFi book rwalm.
[2011/08/09 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: downside? Battey runs down pretty quickly. Might break if you drop it. Apart from that, Kindle beats books hands down.
[2011/08/09 16:26]  Kimiko Yiyuan: realm
[2011/08/09 16:26]  Omenemo: Does anyone moderate this discussion?
[2011/08/09 16:26]  tinguely: If extreme transhuman theorists have their way, Moore for example, in wanting consciousness uploaded into a machine, what would the internet be then?
[2011/08/09 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: For me the story that captures the spirit of SL is Idoru.
[2011/08/09 16:27]  TR Amat: Get your filtering through a Galaxy Tab – usable as a 3G phone via Bluetooth earpiece? 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:27]  tinguely: Parts of caprica remind me of SL in a way haha
[2011/08/09 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Omenemo: Extropia is the host and moderator, but it’s a moderator’s privilege not to moderate, too 😉
[2011/08/09 16:27]  ArtCrash Exonar: tinguely the internet will be the singularity!
[2011/08/09 16:27]  Extropia DaSilva: It would be the noosphere that Teillhard forsaw, Tinguely.
[2011/08/09 16:27]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Oh and of course you allow people to keep even a better track on what you read or buy Extropia. If thats good or bad lies in the eye of the beholder, I guess.
[2011/08/09 16:27]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): My first thought, Lem, is to let that comment go…….yet you introduced the topic
[2011/08/09 16:27]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): The US Civil War was not simple
[2011/08/09 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Burn that heretic, Extropia 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:27]  Lem Skall: don’t let it go
[2011/08/09 16:28]  tinguely: I would be able to search information over the net just with thought alone
[2011/08/09 16:28]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): I had relatives on both sides
[2011/08/09 16:28]  Lem Skall: no war is simple
[2011/08/09 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Imagine, Catholic priests being transhumanists… where is this world going to??
[2011/08/09 16:28]  TR Amat: Strongly encrypt your upload – otherwise people will re-write your for their own convenience? 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:28]  TR Amat: your mind*
[2011/08/09 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha TR
[2011/08/09 16:28]  tinguely: It would be a true sim then
[2011/08/09 16:28]  Lem Skall: and yet there are wars all the time, all over the world
[2011/08/09 16:28]  ArtCrash Exonar: The Civil War might not be simple, but slavery was the main issue. Other causes are rewriting history.
[2011/08/09 16:28]  Omenemo: O.K. – I just think that if this were a voice chat noone could understand a word because everyone was talking at the same time. So what about a speaker’s list?
[2011/08/09 16:29]  Extropia DaSilva: No not the Internet. But the Internet, its assorted databases plus its users efficiently crowdsourced..now THAT is the Singularity.
[2011/08/09 16:29]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Extie is the moderator
[2011/08/09 16:29]  TR Amat: So, we wouls need to pass around a Speaking Stick? 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:29]  Extropia DaSilva: But this is not voice chat so everyone can speak at once and it does not matter.
[2011/08/09 16:29]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): Omenemo: agreed there is need for a low traffic Thinkers
[2011/08/09 16:29]  ArtCrash Exonar: Nope ha ha just have 4 convos at once!
[2011/08/09 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: We used to have the Thinker’s Soapbox
[2011/08/09 16:29]  Omenemo: yeah, if you have a stikie 😉
[2011/08/09 16:29]  Lem Skall: typical American narcissism to think that there hasn’t been anything like THEIR war
[2011/08/09 16:30]  Laborious Aftermath: Semolia right now has mass death going on, and what countries and individuals are helping to stop that and stabilize and set up basic infrastructure for them to live off of? Look at the other wars going on, and the problems like simolia being glossed over for the others. War is the simplest and fastest way to go wrong. There are many good options before all out war. Preventing genocides and famines seems like a more nobel cause, and builds instead of destroys
[2011/08/09 16:30]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Oh and I always thought the singularity had something to do with artificial inelligences. Misunderstanding or have this whole singularity thing been downgraded by its proponnents already? lol
[2011/08/09 16:30]  TR Amat: I liked the reference to the “Spamularity” in Charles Stross’s “Rule 34” – when either the spam and or the spam filters exceed human levels of intelligence…
[2011/08/09 16:30]  tinguely: I think wars in the future will have sentient robots with guns
[2011/08/09 16:30]  Laborious Aftermath: we need to move away from the fast acting into war
[2011/08/09 16:30]  Lem Skall: Semolia? is that the result of a filtered search?
[2011/08/09 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lab: no oil., no reason to stop wars 😛
[2011/08/09 16:30]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Some of my groups use speaking sticks…it works well enough :p
[2011/08/09 16:30]  ArtCrash Exonar: People don’t care about Somalia for one reason: Racism.
[2011/08/09 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I suppose you mean Somalia.
[2011/08/09 16:30]  Laborious Aftermath: let them pay more for oil then
[2011/08/09 16:31]  Extropia DaSilva: Look, if you lot wanted to remain on topic we would BE on topic. But since we are not, I guess you are not interested in further on topic discussion and would rather use the last of my remaining time toi debate whatever:) I am not going to order you to keep on topic:)
[2011/08/09 16:31]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): I knew Moon gave me this thing for a reason
[2011/08/09 16:31]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): But anyway, I should be going…take care, everyone 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s poeam time too 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:31]  Arch (archmage.atlantis): Here Lem, I will attempt to pass it to you
[2011/08/09 16:31]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Bye Violet.
[2011/08/09 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *poem even
[2011/08/09 16:31]  tinguely: Take care
[2011/08/09 16:31]  Extropia DaSilva: yeah, actually my time is up!
[2011/08/09 16:31]  Lem Skall: but we like being ordered by you, Extie
[2011/08/09 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Mistress Extie — order us!
[2011/08/09 16:31]  TR Amat: I need to go. Don’t get filtered out of my perceptions, anyone. 🙂
[2011/08/09 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: We obey!
[2011/08/09 16:31]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Ok Extropia. We talk next time.
[2011/08/09 16:31]  Extropia DaSilva: NEXT WEEK: REBRANDING SL…
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