[15:33] Extropia DaSilva: Today the topic is…GOOGLE+ AND THE PSUEDONYM FUSS…
[15:33] Extropia DaSilva: GOOGLE+ AND THE PSUEDONYM FUSS: “Google the corporation doesn’t quite get social” says Hamlet Au. But is it actually more a case of users with psuedonyms not getting today’s Web?
[15:33] Extropia DaSilva: Hello Laborious. Nice to see you again!
[15:33] Rhiannon of the Birds: Hi Laborious
[15:34] Laborious Aftermath: Hi extropia nice to see you and hi everyone
[15:34] Zobeid Zuma: I think the use of pseudonyms is pretty heavily entrenced in the culture of the internet. It’s not going away soon or without a struggle.
[15:34] Rhiannon of the Birds: yeah, there was a State that wanted to outlaw it, and it was shot down because of privacy issues
[15:35] Rhiannon of the Birds: But you can always use a real fake name.
[15:35] Rhiannon of the Birds: You know, have a pseudonym for your publications, use that as your ‘real name’ for Google purposes
[15:35] Rhiannon of the Birds: you know–Rhiannon Draggone—-J.D. Robb—->Noral Roberts
[15:36] Rhiannon of the Birds: Not that I’m sayinng anything about my RL here
[15:36] Rhiannon of the Birds: lol
[15:36] Zobeid Zuma: I haven’t tried Google+ (and am unlikely too now), but I did run into something annoying where Google keeps wanting me to “link” my Google and Youtube accounts.
[15:36] Extropia DaSilva: Maybe you are? Maybe it is a double bluff?
[15:36] Zobeid Zuma: Which are under different names.
[15:36] Laborious Aftermath: youl still run into the problem of others ending up trying to use the same sudo over time also
[15:37] Rhiannon of the Birds: Extie, yes, like when I mention my “ex-Special Forces” karate instructor–maybe I’m her, er, I mean him
[15:37] Extropia DaSilva: I quite like Google+, actually.
[15:37] Rhiannon of the Birds: Well, I’m sure I would to, if they ever let me on it.
[15:37] Rhiannon of the Birds: They said that they weren’t taking any more members when I applied
[15:37] Laborious Aftermath: I had to leave my old CRUNCH-A-Bunch name from the military and sports types taking it so many places
[15:38] Rhiannon of the Birds: What are they afraid of, anyway? That Mickey Mouse might get the goods on his competition by saying he’s ‘Donald Duck?”
[15:39] Extropia DaSilva: I read somewhere some time that they can make a fairly accurate inferral as to what you are really like from studying your Web browsing history. So why do Google need your real name when, aparrently, their datamining facilities can reveal your true identity anyway?
[15:39] Laborious Aftermath: keeping the credit strait and linked to the right source is part of what we want to keep with that
[15:40] Laborious Aftermath: now thats another big part
[15:40] EryxFierenza: I think it has to do with the ramping up of cybercrimes and attack. Large companies will increasingly need a way to account for the actual individual sitting at the keyboard, lest you be naughty
[15:40] Rhiannon of the Birds: Extie, well, if you browse under one name and then another, that could confuse the poor dears
[15:40] Laborious Aftermath: I go lots of places and under a few names
[15:40] Rhiannon of the Birds: Hi Bela!
[15:40] Bela Beltz: Hi 🙂
[15:42] Extropia DaSilva: So…we all done?
[15:43] Rhiannon of the BirdsRhiannon of the Birds laughs
[15:43] Laborious Aftermath: so then when is to many sudo’s under different people to much then if we can all use the same ones?
[15:43] Rhiannon of the Birds: A short session?
[15:43] Rhiannon of the Birds: You all who are using Goggle Plus, how did you get on?
[15:43] The Awesome: i got an invite from a former roommate
[15:44] Zobeid Zuma: If anyone doesn’t mind the question. . . What exactly does Google+ do, anyhow?
[15:44] Extropia DaSilva: Fine. A few of my avatar friends have been banned, but apart from that the service is excellent.
[15:44] The Awesome: it’s not that impressive, from what I’e seen so far
[15:44] Extropia DaSilva: It is a social network like Facebook. Y
[15:45] Zobeid Zuma: And I haven’t really figured out what Facebook is good for either, so. . . 😛
[15:45] Rhiannon of the Birds: What does it do for you, Jim?
[15:45] The Awesome: nothing that facebook didn’t already do. it’s just the new trendy thing since you still need an invite
[15:45] Rhiannon of the Birds: I see. So anyone want to invite me?
[15:46] Rhiannon of the Birds: Just kidding, Eryx; you didn’t have to leave…you don’t have to invite me!!!
[15:46] Extropia DaSilva: One difference is that people do not request friending which you accept or decline. They can add you as a contact without needing your permission. And you can add them or not. Also, you can have different catagories like ‘friends’ ‘family’ ‘work’. and select who sees what.
[15:46] The Awesome: i find it a bit less user friendly. the only “advantage” I’ve noticed so far is that the ads on it are the ones anyone with gmail already has to put up with
[15:47] Rhiannon of the Birds: I have two gmail accounts, I wonder if I can invite myself?
[15:47] Rhiannon of the Birds: Hi Sfindra!
[15:47] Zobeid Zuma: I use GMail with IMAP. 😀
[15:47] Sfindra: hello 🙂
[15:47] Rhiannon of the Birds: IMAP?
[15:47] Extropia DaSilva: I dunno, Rhi. I think one of your accounts would have to be in G+ already?
[15:48] The Awesome: relevantly – I’d invite if sending something from e-mail didn’t require giving my real name to someone on SL
[15:49] Rhiannon of the Birds: Extie, just joking, I knew the self referential quality of it; but actually, one of my gmail accounts could apply, be accepted and then invite me in m yahoo account
[15:50] Rhiannon of the Birds: They apparently do have some kind of quote system for uninvited people
[15:50] Extropia DaSilva: But why not just do as Google ask and sign up with a real name? Why use a pseudonym?
[15:50] Rhiannon of the Birds: Privacy of course.
[15:50] Rhiannon of the Birds: But yeah, you could sign up with your real name, then invite your pseudonym, and use that for privacy
[15:52] Extropia DaSilva: But I am probably the only Extropia DaSilva on the Web. ONTH maybe my primary has a very common first and last name? So whereas ve might be able to hide among the multitudes also called **** **** I am exposed on the Web. So my account is less private:)
[15:52] Rhiannon of the Birds: Yeah, no more private a name than Jane Doe, if that were your name.
[15:52] Extropia DaSilva: Right.
[15:53] Rhiannon of the Birds: John McDonald suggested the best way to hide in a fishbowl society like ours is to have a zillion accounts under your own name.
[15:53] Bela Beltz: but what if your rl name is very uncommon? that’s my case
[15:53] Rhiannon of the Birds: Then the government would bog down trying to find which is the real you.
[15:53] Zobeid Zuma: My “real name” is one that *sounds* common but isn’t really. Which often turns out to be convenient.
[15:53] Bela Beltz: good idea lol
[15:53] Laborious Aftermath: not so much with todays loging of traffic though rhi
[15:54] Rhiannon of the Birds: heh, my RL name is very common; someone tried to find me at a website I published at. Dismissed the battle ship, but thought maybe the others could be me.
[15:54] Zobeid Zuma: So I can sign up for anything without having to worry about it already being taken.
[15:54] Rhiannon of the Birds: I have th ename of a led singer that plays in an all girl band that performs naked, of a movie character, of a physicists, a couple of beauty queens…
[15:55] Rhiannon of the Birds: Hi Eternal
[15:55] Eternal01: Hi resing in
[15:55] Rhiannon of the Birds: Oh, and a spokesperson for the NRA
[15:55] Rhiannon of the Birds: There, google all of that and you might find my real name.
[15:55] Rhiannon of the Birds: If anyone cares enough…
[15:56] The Awesome: which spokesman? the one who was in ten commandments? 🙂
[15:56] Rhiannon of the Birds: Actually, if you were to google Rhiannon and knew I was a writer, you could find it too.
[15:57] Rhiannon of the Birds: Awesome, well, I havae been accused of being a man (just today as a matter of fact),and of being mentally ill, and he did suffer Alsheimer’s before he died, so maybe…
[15:57] Laborious Aftermath: what do you write about if you don’t mind telling?
[15:57] Rhiannon of the Birds: A lot of stuff, Laborious, but what I’m thinking of that could give it away is about the grand, ever so great, descendent of the fairy goddess, Rhiannon.
[15:57] Extropia DaSilva: I just do not think ‘real’ names are particularly important information. Take Rhi, for example. I do not need to know her primary’s name to know she is knowledgable in philosophy. I get that information by hanging around her and getting to know her through socialising.
[15:58] Rhiannon of the Birds: Exactly, Extie, it’s musch todo over nothing. The guy who was ragging about me possibly being someone named Scott missed that point entirely; people don’t care about those details in SL
[15:58] Laborious Aftermath: It’s not to bad till a ton of people are trying to take the same name or close aproximations and variants of it also
[15:59] Rhiannon of the Birds: Hi Lex
[15:59] Lex: hi rhiannon
[15:59] Bela Beltz: for me my primary’s name is very important information, which I don’t want to reveal
[16:00] Extropia DaSilva: why not?
[16:00] Rhiannon of the Birds: It wouldn’t be Lugosi, would it Bela?
[16:00] Rhiannon of the Birds: You don’t have to answer that, of course
[16:00] Bela Beltz: no lol
[16:00] Extropia DaSilva: haha
[16:00] The Awesome: we already know who you really are, Bela “sarah palin” Beltz
[16:00] Extropia DaSilva: Cheeldren of the night. Vot music they make!
[16:00] Bela Beltz: the reason is that I’m trying to deconstruct my primary personality
[16:00] Rhiannon of the Birds: heh, i’ve been accused of being Sarah Palin too, but I don’t think the guy was serious
[16:01] Laborious Aftermath: I keep mine spread about but don’t mind anyone knowing what ones they are. Why hide?
[16:01] Rhiannon of the Birds: Privacy, Lab
[16:01] Extropia DaSilva: YOu mean find a sense of seperation between you and ver? Forge your own identity in online spaces?
[16:01] Rhiannon of the Birds: Privacy and not wanfting a bunch of wierdos showing up at your door.
[16:01] Sfindra: i have several names and use them for different purposes, like business, or pleasure etc
[16:01] Bela Beltz: yes, and not only in online spaces
[16:02] Rhiannon of the Birds: Yes, different names are like alts, you use them for different purposes
[16:02] Extropia DaSilva: Interesting:)
[16:02] Rhiannon of the Birds: Right, Orlando?
[16:02] Laborious Aftermath: or even experianc things in groups at times. That has been a neat one also to explore
[16:03] Rhiannon of the Birds: Wow, Lex covered his pecks, then vanished. Oh, he’s back now. WB, Lex
[16:03] Sfindra: and of course one is dedicated for signing up to all those websites that enevitably send junk mail lol
[16:03] Lex: I moved from there to here, I hope Im not a distraction
[16:03] Laborious Aftermath: LOL P 🙂
[16:04] Bela Beltz: it is all about freedom… to be free you need to erase your personal history
[16:04] Rhiannon of the Birds: I can’t keep my eyes off of you, but no, you’re not a distraction. lol
[16:04] Sfindra: lol
[16:04] Rhiannon of the Birds: Just don’t put a juke box on your head and have an erection and i’ll be fine.
[16:05] Lex: there were ral poses on here, I thought I chose ”concentrate ” seve
[16:05] Lex: – seve
[16:05] The Awesome: it’s the jukebox that would be the problem, right?
[16:05] Extropia DaSilva: Sooo anyone have anything else on-topic to say?
[16:06] Lex: I think freedom includes responsibility
[16:06] Zobeid Zuma: Meaning?
[16:06] Bela Beltz: responsibility of our own decissions, yes
[16:07] Lex: for instance, the notion of anonimity, doesnt bring about the same discourse as when this is not so
[16:07] Lex: I believe,
[16:07] Orlando: Do you mean anonymity or pseudonymity?
[16:07] Extropia DaSilva: I have responsibility. I have my digital personhood to uphold. It is very important to me that I do not abuse my Online networks and risk being cut off from them.
[16:08] Lex: i think there is a broad spectrum applicable, from pseunimity to anonimity
[16:09] Lex: for some, one, rather than the other perhaps, but not all
[16:09] Laborious Aftermath: what happens if one day 100 or 1,000 people want to have extropia dasilva?
[16:09] Extropia DaSilva: Psuedonymity sounds like psuedonym or alternate name. But ‘Extropia DaSilva’ is not an alternate name it is MY name.
[16:09] Orlando: Forgive me – I know I’m monstrously late to the discussion, but have you already discussed the reasons why people choose pseudonymity online?
[16:09] Extropia DaSilva: It is not too late to discuss that, Orlando:)
[16:10] Orlando: Extropia, would I be right in understanding that the flesh and blood person typing right now is not called Extropia DaSilva on their passport?
[16:10] Extropia DaSilva: Right. I only exist in online spaces.
[16:10] Orlando: Because in that case I think pseudonym is an appropriate term
[16:11] Bela Beltz: I agree with Extie
[16:11] Orlando: if we’re discussing online identities in general, rather than SL in particular
[16:11] Bela Beltz: SL avatars havea life of their own
[16:11] Orlando: Which, with the topic of Google +, I had assumed to be the case
[16:12] Extropia DaSilva: Well, as I like to say ‘George Elliot’ was Mary Evans’s pseudonym, but Silas Marner was not. Silas Marner was a character created by Evans/Elliot. I am more like a character than a psuedonym.
[16:12] The Awesome: for years, RL friends called me by my World of Warcraft name. To them, my real name was my pseudonym since the met me as a troll before they met me as a human.
[16:12] Extropia DaSilva: Not an Internet troll I hope:)
[16:13] Orlando: AhSo we’re just thinking of this in terms of avatars, rather than the broader issue of online identities?
[16:13] Laborious Aftermath: K take my old one http://boincstats.com/stats/boinc_user_graph.php?pr=bo&id=8627
[16:13] Extropia DaSilva: I was called an Internetr troll by one person. THat is what you get for defending the theories of Ray Kurzweil.
[16:14] Laborious Aftermath: now do the search for that name and see you get 270,000 pages and of that only a few hundred sudos for that
[16:14] Rhiannon of the Birds: Orlando, only me. I said “privacy”
[16:14] Extropia DaSilva: I use ‘Avatar’ as an umbrella term for every instance of online identity. My FB page, Google+ page, blog, flickr…all are my avatar.
[16:14] Orlando: There are many people online who labour under the misapprehension that “troll” simply means “person who disagrees with me”. Which is annoying.
[16:14] Rhiannon of the Birds: And not wanting wierdos at my door. (Sorry, Orlando)
[16:14] Zobeid Zuma: What do you think is the likelihood that Google will have to change their policy? I think that Slashdot article probably stirred up something of a backlash against it.
[16:14] Bela Beltz: SL identities create a kind of mist in your mind… I have come to a point in which I no longer know who I “really” am lol
[16:15] Extropia DaSilva: I think so, Zo.
[16:15] Rhiannon of the Birds: I bet they will have to modify it, Zo
[16:15] Bela Beltz: and I find that liberating
[16:15] Zobeid Zuma: I mean, horror stories about people with unusual (but real!) names getting cut off without warning from all Google services. That’s bad publicity for sure.
[16:15] Laborious Aftermath: Well my point is how do you keep them apart after so many take the name or try to?
[16:15] Bela Beltz: and that’s why I don’t take part in Facebook or Google *
[16:15] Bela Beltz: I don’t like to be controlled
[16:15] Extropia DaSilva: Funnily enough, 21st century philosophy and psychology and neuroscience have come to the same conclusion. There is no ‘real’ self.
[16:16] Rhiannon of the Birds: Yes, there is Extie; we’re all alts of an avatar named birric
[16:16] Extropia DaSilva: 🙂
[16:16] Rhiannon of the Birds: But he isn’t real
[16:16] Zobeid Zuma: “I am large, I contain multitudes.”
[16:16] Orlando: I absolutely do not want to have my various online interactions forced under one umbrella; compartmentalising is ENORMOUSLY valuable, imho.
[16:16] Rhiannon of the Birds: lol
[16:16] Rhiannon of the Birds: Orlando, it is extremely valuable
[16:17] Extropia DaSilva: Not Cthulu? I am disappointed.
[16:17] Laborious Aftermath: oh I thought we where all alts of linden Hahaha
[16:17] Rhiannon of the Birds: Well, I’m the beta of the AI that the lindens came up with; I actually control a snmall town in the Silicon Valley
[16:17] Rhiannon of the Birds: I make sure “my people” are taken care of, vbut no one can leave, lest they reveal my identity
[16:18] Rhiannon of the Birds: And through the internet, I even control those suborbital pulse weapons that no one is supposed to know about.
[16:18] Extropia DaSilva: Did you book them into Hotel California? You know, gthey say you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.
[16:18] Rhiannon of the Birds: Extie, lol
[16:18] Zobeid Zuma: You must mean the Aperture Sciences Division of LL. 😀
[16:18] Rhiannon of the Birds: I’m actually referring to a Koontz story that was ade into a TV movie
[16:19] Laborious Aftermath: LOL extropia P
[16:19] Extropia DaSilva: If I spoke, I would sound like the female narrator of Portal.
[16:19] Rhiannon of the Birds: The poor AI knew all the literature ever written, which was on the web, and realized humans try to kill entities like him; so he was just protecting himself.
[16:19] Rhiannon of the Birds: He *liked* people
[16:20] Laborious Aftermath: I see you already gave the AI a sex there
[16:20] Orlando: And I think it’s a function of privilege to come out with these bullshit assertions about people needing to use their own legal identities. . (OMG, it is like typing through treacle! Soooo slow!)
[16:20] Rhiannon of the Birds: Lab, from the book; he always spoke in a mawsculine voice
[16:20] Laborious Aftermath: Ah what book?
[16:21] Rhiannon of the Birds: I forget the title of it, it was by Dean Koontz and was made into a TV movie
[16:21] Rhiannon of the Birds: Pretty good one, too.
[16:21] Rhiannon of the Birds: He wanted to have the perfect city for “his” humans, and he would trap people there to provide that.
[16:21] Rhiannon of the Birds: It’s told from the point of view of an archetect who got stuck there
[16:21] Extropia DaSilva: Oh I like the sound of that story:)
[16:22] Rhiannon of the Birds: oh, i just got a message; someone has posted on my SLO web profile. Did you know, anyone canh post of your profile, and the whole web can see it?
[16:22] Orlando: That said, I think there’s a difference between pseudonyms and sockpuppets. Did you guys already cover the issue of the Gay Girl In Damascus blog?
[16:22] Rhiannon of the Birds: SL profile
[16:23] Rhiannon of the Birds: No, Orlando. There are gay girls in Damascus?
[16:23] Orlando: You didn’t follow this?
[16:23] Bela Beltz: never heard about it
[16:23] Extropia DaSilva: In RL two people or more people can have the exact same name, but online it seems not to be the case. Like, since I have signed up on Google+ as Extropia DaSilva the next person to want that name has to be Extropia DaSilva1 or something like that. Why?
[16:23] Orlando: The Gay Girl IN Damscus Blog purported to be the blog of a US-raised Syrian Lesbian
[16:24] Extropia DaSilva: Oh right, it was something else in reality. Yes, IK remember now.
[16:24] Orlando: A couple of months ago her cousin posted that she’d been siezed by th eauthorities for writing this blog
[16:24] Extropia DaSilva: *i*
[16:25] Laborious Aftermath: they are trying to link the person to the identity and compete with rivals in a flawed system if for anything they can’t control the sudo’s made off google+
[16:25] Extropia DaSilva: The classic example of this is known as ‘the case of the electronic lover’. If you do not know the story, Google it. Interesting account of a fake identity that went out of control.
[16:25] Laborious Aftermath: you can still goto another social site and make the name
[16:25] Orlando: Bloggers & activists in Syria were frantically trying to help her, and putting themselves at risk
[16:26] Orlando: Turns out “she” was a straight white American guy doing his PostGrad in Edinburgh
[16:26] Rhiannon of the Birds: Extie, a fake identity went out of control?
[16:26] Extropia DaSilva: Yes. Bare in mind nobody (apart from the guy behind it) knew it was fake.
[16:27] Rhiannon of the Birds: That happens a lot, but how did it get out of control?
[16:27] Laborious Aftermath: sounds like a good ghost
[16:27] Rhiannon of the Birds: you make it sound like the account developed AI, or something
[16:29] Extropia DaSilva: He made up an identity called ‘Joan’ who was supposedly a severly handicapped woman. ‘Joan’ attracted many admireres for her self confidence and sexuality despite her disabilities. The guy behind this fake account eventually felt things were getting out of hand and announced ‘Joan’ was dying in a hospital; but one of ‘her’ friends worked at that particular hospital and realised it was all made up.
[16:29] Orlando: Pseudicide.
[16:30] Orlando: The guy who set up TV tropes did exactly that to a community I belong to
[16:31] Extropia DaSilva: OK. Well my time is up!
[16:31] Extropia DaSilva: NEXT WEEK: MR STAR WARS PREDICTS…