Thinkers July 19 2011: Emotion Detectors

Extropia DaSilva: Welcome to Thinkers! Today the topic is ‘EMOTION DETECTORS’..
[2011/07/19 15:31]  Extropia DaSilva: Technologists are developing sensors that can accurately interpret a person’s emotions. Tests show the tech is actually better at sensing moods than most people are. What would be the consequences if such tech became widespread?
[2011/07/19 15:31]  Zobeid Zuma: You mean from a distance? How does this work?
[2011/07/19 15:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: More info please! 🙂
[2011/07/19 15:32]  Extropia DaSilva: It reads microexpressions.
[2011/07/19 15:32]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): whispers: Hi
[2011/07/19 15:32]  Ivy Sunkiller: we have been quite good at reading emotions by things like heart beat and blood pressure and sweating
[2011/07/19 15:32]  Extropia DaSilva: Hello.
[2011/07/19 15:32]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Extie
[2011/07/19 15:32]  Zaira Artful: 🙂
[2011/07/19 15:32]  Ivy Sunkiller: heyo Rhi
[2011/07/19 15:32]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Ivy
[2011/07/19 15:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like Dr Lightman? 🙂
[2011/07/19 15:33]  Julie Bluebird (lolli.bluebird): Hi Rhia
[2011/07/19 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh is that Morgie?
[2011/07/19 15:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay! it’s Morgie indeed 🙂
[2011/07/19 15:33]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, the machines can be defeated by special training, like in Special Forces, alpha brain wave, trance control, and by psychopaths, of course
[2011/07/19 15:33]  Zobeid Zuma: Morgaine, hii!
[2011/07/19 15:33]  Kimiko Yiyuan: If that the thing I am thinking about now, it does not tell you much about any emotions, not real ones at least.
[2011/07/19 15:33]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Julie!
[2011/07/19 15:33]  Julie Bluebird (lolli.bluebird): 🙂
[2011/07/19 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: For the purpose of this discussion perhaps we can go with the premise ‘the tech works’ without asking HOW and then get on with ‘what are the consequences’?
[2011/07/19 15:33]  Morgaine Dinova: Hi hi 🙂 Hi all, don;t mind me, still getting act together.
[2011/07/19 15:34]  Kimiko Yiyuan: But maybe i am thinking of something else, because that one is not looking at facial expressions.
[2011/07/19 15:34]  Shea (bunkie715): I guess people would know when you are lying…
[2011/07/19 15:34]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, it does work to a limited extent, and Ivy is right, there are other ways of reading emotions
[2011/07/19 15:34]  Shea (bunkie715): that would be bad when I tell someone I like their new haircut
[2011/07/19 15:34]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Shea, they wouuld,, unless you have special training, the idea is that if your imaginative center is activated while you’re talking, you are lying.
[2011/07/19 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The consequences, Extropia, is that the “Lie To me” show would be cancelled 🙂
[2011/07/19 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: which is a pity really.
[2011/07/19 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: Yeah it takes more effort to like and this shows up on fMRI.
[2011/07/19 15:35]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, Shea, just go into an imaginative state, so their baseline is all mess ed up–‘hey, this person can’t tell the difference between a lie and truth’
[2011/07/19 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: Hey, that rhymes.
[2011/07/19 15:35]  Shea (bunkie715): I have an autistic son who does not speak so any help I could get would be great
[2011/07/19 15:35]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): omg, I’m a rapper
[2011/07/19 15:36]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): yeah, it would help understanding those with communication difficulties
[2011/07/19 15:36]  Extropia DaSilva: This tech is actually geared up for helping autistic people.
[2011/07/19 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oooh
[2011/07/19 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, just because of that, it’s wonderful!
[2011/07/19 15:36]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): It would be immensively helpful in training them too.
[2011/07/19 15:36]  Morgaine Dinova: I don’t see how someone can say “It can’t tell you much about emotions”, when all humans can do is see only the visible symptoms in others too. We don’t have any other “emotion detectors”.
[2011/07/19 15:36]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): They would be able to correlate what the machine says with the bady language of people
[2011/07/19 15:37]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Now, wheteher it should be allowed in Court? That’s a different question.
[2011/07/19 15:37]  Shea (bunkie715): I always watch to see how he reacts to new caregivers….trying to figure out if he likes them
[2011/07/19 15:37]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Probably not
[2011/07/19 15:37]  Shea (bunkie715): if they are hurting him….stuff like that
[2011/07/19 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So am I correct in assuming that this works with visuals only, e.g. no need to attach electrodes or something like that?
[2011/07/19 15:37]  Shea (bunkie715): he cannot answer
[2011/07/19 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: it will be a question of time hehe
[2011/07/19 15:37]  Kimiko Yiyuan: It might be really helpful if wewould all turn into emotional cripples who are either unable to read any emotions anymore or people that really are trusting machines more than people. I do have some things in mind that it could be used to though, outside helping autistic people to cope or helping others to cope with them.
[2011/07/19 15:38]  Shea (bunkie715): but if the machine showed positive or negative that would help
[2011/07/19 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: Well it is not one tech, Gwyn. Some of the stuff can work remotely, while other stuff you have to wear.
[2011/07/19 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, what I mena is that ultimately it’s something you could carry with you, point at someone, and tell what they’re emoting?
[2011/07/19 15:39]  Ivy Sunkiller: maybe if my PC could detect how pissed off I am it wouldn’t bother me with Windows Update
[2011/07/19 15:39]  Shea (bunkie715): I think we could find many uses
[2011/07/19 15:39]  Extropia DaSilva: Yeah. In the prototype you wear glasses and it has a little display that tells you how the person is reacting to you.
[2011/07/19 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh Ivy!
[2011/07/19 15:39]  Shea (bunkie715): but then it would be bad if your boss had one
[2011/07/19 15:39]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyneth, well, ultimately, it could gie you an indication
[2011/07/19 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aha. So it’s an augmented realoity thingy?
[2011/07/19 15:39]  Ivy Sunkiller: I don’t have a boss! 🙂
[2011/07/19 15:39]  Extropia DaSilva: Uhuh.
[2011/07/19 15:39]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Shea, well, then Special Forces training would become more commonplace, I should think
[2011/07/19 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: “available on an iPhone/Android soon”
[2011/07/19 15:39]  Morgaine Dinova: … augmentalists … 😛
[2011/07/19 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Morgaine!
[2011/07/19 15:40]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, lol
[2011/07/19 15:40]  Extropia DaSilva: Ivy you sounded like Mr Blonde just than;)
[2011/07/19 15:40]  Jayda Ferrentino: poker would be ruined
[2011/07/19 15:40]  Extropia DaSilva: then
[2011/07/19 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Jayda
[2011/07/19 15:40]  Shea (bunkie715): LOL, poker would be ruined indeed
[2011/07/19 15:40]  Jayda Ferrentino: 😛
[2011/07/19 15:40]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): All your boss would know is that you’re happy all the time…
[2011/07/19 15:40]  Jayda Ferrentino: hahaha
[2011/07/19 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the other hand, it would give Virtual poker a boost 🙂
[2011/07/19 15:40]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Vi!
[2011/07/19 15:40]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi guys 🙂
[2011/07/19 15:40]  Shea (bunkie715): ….then my boss would know I am thinking he is an idiot
[2011/07/19 15:40]  Zobeid Zuma: Hi Violet
[2011/07/19 15:40]  Jayda Ferrentino: so what about impulsive people
[2011/07/19 15:41]  Ivy Sunkiller: hoy hoy Viotari
[2011/07/19 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: you’re making me dizzy, Vi…. lol
[2011/07/19 15:41]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Shea, no, it only reads emotions
[2011/07/19 15:41]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): hehe
[2011/07/19 15:41]  Jayda Ferrentino: people who switch moods quickly
[2011/07/19 15:41]  Shea (bunkie715): May help in screening people at the airport
[2011/07/19 15:41]  Morgaine Dinova: So, the forthgcoming problem with emotions then is that we have no outgoing firewall to prevent them leaking out.
[2011/07/19 15:41]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): So if you get yourself in a trance, and are only thinking happy thoughts
[2011/07/19 15:41]  Ivy Sunkiller: and – didn’t folks from virtual poker hit real world poker in casinos some time ago?
[2011/07/19 15:41]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): You can switch your mood by looking up at a 45 degree agnle
[2011/07/19 15:41]  Ivy Sunkiller: turns out nerds > poker face experts 🙂
[2011/07/19 15:42]  Zobeid Zuma: I have a HUD to change expressions. 🙂
[2011/07/19 15:42]  Extropia DaSilva: How about the dating scene?
[2011/07/19 15:42]  Kimiko Yiyuan: no it does not really with visuals so far. Although if something like that is becoming ubiquitious, it is a great tool for monitoring and controlling people. And because of that there are tests that are made with this kind of gear.
[2011/07/19 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’m curious about how that will be used in court, that’s where things become interesting really…
[2011/07/19 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dating!
[2011/07/19 15:42]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Hi there Violet.
[2011/07/19 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point, Extie!
[2011/07/19 15:42]  Jayda Ferrentino: somebody should’ve used it on casey anthony
[2011/07/19 15:43]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): It will depend on issues like reliability, privacy
[2011/07/19 15:43]  Jayda Ferrentino: lollll
[2011/07/19 15:43]  Zaira Artful: in some circumstances would it be considered invading privacy ?
[2011/07/19 15:43]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi hi 🙂
[2011/07/19 15:43]  Morgaine Dinova: Court is where things get incredbily non-interesting
[2011/07/19 15:43]  Zobeid Zuma: One catch is, even if you get an indication of what they feel, you can only guess why. . .
[2011/07/19 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: Good point, zo:)
[2011/07/19 15:43]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zobeid, yes; again, if you keep in a happy space, they will never know what you are really thinking
[2011/07/19 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not really! After all, we are all natural experts in detecting emotions. This device is just better! Emotions are displayed publicly, so, well, no real invasion of privacy..,..
[2011/07/19 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: Maybe if they are also compulsive tweeters?
[2011/07/19 15:44]  Zobeid Zuma: And sociopaths feel no anxiety, I’ve been told.
[2011/07/19 15:44]  Ivy Sunkiller: it’s untrue Zo, I definitely feel anxiety
[2011/07/19 15:44]  Kimiko Yiyuan: This device is better Gwyn? i do not think so. And as it was just said it would most likely not be able to say why you have this emotion.
[2011/07/19 15:44]  Zobeid Zuma: Gwyn, it’s not always safe to take an established principle and extrapolate it beyond what anybody’s seen before.
[2011/07/19 15:44]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, well, that doesn’t follow; like using infrared sensors to tell what’s going on in a person’s house? It adds a dimension
[2011/07/19 15:45]  Shea (bunkie715): wonder if it would show psychopath as an emotion
[2011/07/19 15:45]  Shea (bunkie715): that would be helpful
[2011/07/19 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe sure. I think I watch “Lie To Me” too much…
[2011/07/19 15:45]  Kimiko Yiyuan: It might not be able to tell you waht kind of emotion even. Just that there is a change in something.
[2011/07/19 15:45]  Extropia DaSilva: No Kimiko it is just better at inferring what emotion the person has. You are right that it cannot tell you why.
[2011/07/19 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: A change?
[2011/07/19 15:45]  Morgaine Dinova: Gwyn: That’s an interesting line of argument, but it only applies if emotions have the sole purpose of public display, and I’m not sure they do.
[2011/07/19 15:45]  Zobeid Zuma: Like Google street view. . . It’s always been legal to take photos of anything that’s visible from a public street, but when they started taking and posting images of *everything* that’s visible from public streets. . . there was a backlash.
[2011/07/19 15:45]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Oh yes, and of course in a way those things are ubiquitious in a way already. they are called lie detectors.
[2011/07/19 15:45]  Jayda Ferrentino: do autistic people care about how other peoples moods are??
[2011/07/19 15:45]  Zaira Artful: it would help those with intellectual disabilities who are challenged at reading facial expressions
[2011/07/19 15:46]  Jayda Ferrentino: like what would they do with that information
[2011/07/19 15:46]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, it’s reliability will depend on whether they can tell why you’re in an emotion–are you happy because you’re glad to see your boss? Or are you happy because your eyes are at a 45 degree angle, and it’s impossible not to be happy, then.
[2011/07/19 15:46]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zaira, that’s what I was hinking; they can learn to correlate body langague with what the machine says
[2011/07/19 15:46]  Shea (bunkie715): My son seems to understand my moods
[2011/07/19 15:46]  Zaira Artful: 🙂
[2011/07/19 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: I have seen a moving video of an autistic woman training herself to understand people better. Going from her experience, I would say at least some do.
[2011/07/19 15:46]  Jayda Ferrentino: but does he respond to that information
[2011/07/19 15:46]  Jayda Ferrentino: oh ok 🙂
[2011/07/19 15:47]  Jayda Ferrentino: i guess it’s the range
[2011/07/19 15:47]  Morgaine Dinova: Or are you happy because your boss’s pants are pretty tight today, but you actually hate the guy.
[2011/07/19 15:47]  Extropia DaSilva: yeah it is a spectum, as they say.
[2011/07/19 15:47]  Shea (bunkie715): Well, I know when he sees I am sad, he is often very loving and hugs me
[2011/07/19 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Morgaine… yes, good point 😉
[2011/07/19 15:47]  Jayda Ferrentino: ‘kay 🙂
[2011/07/19 15:47]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Morgaine, yes, same principle; you can choose to be happy.
[2011/07/19 15:47]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): You are in control of your emotions.
[2011/07/19 15:47]  Shea (bunkie715): It may be helpful to help you change your own moods
[2011/07/19 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, most definitely, it’s just hard, Rhi.
[2011/07/19 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: How so, Shea?
[2011/07/19 15:48]  Shea (bunkie715): If you can detect that you are being negative
[2011/07/19 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.!
[2011/07/19 15:48]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, no, it just needs training.
[2011/07/19 15:48]  Morgaine Dinova: Rhi: The point I was trying to make is that the emotion can be misinterpreted semantically, in that it’s not 1:1, but N:1
[2011/07/19 15:48]  Zaira Artful: smiling changes your brain chemistry ..and that effects mood
[2011/07/19 15:48]  Shea (bunkie715): and maybe remind yourself to be positive
[2011/07/19 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /nod @ Shea
[2011/07/19 15:48]  Shea (bunkie715): I would need one at work then
[2011/07/19 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: not 1,1 but N.1? What does that mean?
[2011/07/19 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just a way to train….
[2011/07/19 15:48]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Yes, smiling does; holding your eyes at a certain angle; and as far as detecting lying, yoy can mess up the baseline by always being imaginatibve
[2011/07/19 15:49]  Morgaine Dinova: Extie: means that the same external display can have many different causes, so you cannot infer a cause from the external diaplay
[2011/07/19 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: If you want to cheer up hold a pencil between your teeth. It makes you smile and your brain thinks you are happy and makes it so.
[2011/07/19 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is the range of emotions that can be detected with this device, Extie?
[2011/07/19 15:49]  Zobeid Zuma: Just tell yourself that it *could* be true. It just depends on the meaning of “is”.
[2011/07/19 15:49]  Jayda Ferrentino: or just smoke some weed
[2011/07/19 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: All of themm Gwyn, perfectly. For the purpose of this discussion.
[2011/07/19 15:50]  Zobeid Zuma: Clinton did that. 😛
[2011/07/19 15:50]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Morgaine, well, *my* point is that you can induce that misinterpretation.
[2011/07/19 15:50]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): /me wonders if that’s why anxious people chew on pencils
[2011/07/19 15:50]  Jayda Ferrentino: 😛
[2011/07/19 15:50]  Ivy Sunkiller: can it detect the difference between a smile, a pedo smile and a trollface?
[2011/07/19 15:50]  Jayda Ferrentino: hahaha
[2011/07/19 15:50]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Actually Extropia, as far as I know the current devices do not only cannot tell you why you have an emotion but also not what exact emotion you have now. They just register that there is a change in mood going on, in an autistic person, for example and that alerts the careing person to a degree. but nothing more so far. yeah i know you said we should nor care about if it really works but what if it would… 🙂
[2011/07/19 15:51]  Ivy Sunkiller: that’s actually not completely unreasonable question 🙂
[2011/07/19 15:51]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, Kim, we can still speculate for if and when they do have a device that reads emotions.
[2011/07/19 15:51]  Jayda Ferrentino: there’s too much information available
[2011/07/19 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, so it’s just speculation, huh? In that case, I would speculate that evolution would give us humans more able at conceal/forge emotions 😉
[2011/07/19 15:52]  Jayda Ferrentino: i mean like, with that possibility there’ll be even less privacy
[2011/07/19 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: Sure, Kimiko, the actual device is probably limited. But in this discussion I want to imagine the technology is pretty much perfect and you cannot hide your emotions from anyone. Then what happens?
[2011/07/19 15:52]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Yes I know Rhi. I am sometimes a bit too much down to earth for this round. Sorry, my bad. hehe
[2011/07/19 15:52]  Morgaine Dinova: Rhi: Agreed, you would be able to induce it, but that’s largely because the observer is interested in some hidden fact F, and knows that emotion E may indicate fact F, and hence on detecting E infers F. But that’s the observer’s fault for not recognizing that multiple F’s can manifest as E.
[2011/07/19 15:52]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Kim, we need someone like you to keep us grounded
[2011/07/19 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It happens that more people will train themselves into being able to conceal/change emotions 🙂
[2011/07/19 15:52]  Jayda Ferrentino: i think us brits are good at that already
[2011/07/19 15:53]  Morgaine Dinova: So it’s wishful thinking by the observer.
[2011/07/19 15:53]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Morgaine, good point, and one of the reasons why the technology is objectionable in the wrong hands and why we should all have the training to get around it.
[2011/07/19 15:53]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Well, what then happens is…well, that depends on where you use it. As I said, it could be a device for monitoring and controlling people.
[2011/07/19 15:53]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Or it could be a device that allows you to see the emotional reactions to a politicians speech.
[2011/07/19 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jayda: that means probably a new stream of income for the UK: giving seminars on concealing emotions! Goodbye, crisis! hehe
[2011/07/19 15:53]  Jayda Ferrentino: lolll
[2011/07/19 15:53]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And Morgan, again, that is why it really isn’t lying; you rely upon the observer’s fale inferences
[2011/07/19 15:54]  Kimiko Yiyuan: It might be useful for marketing, to see how people react to certain products or dieas.
[2011/07/19 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: I am GREAT at hiding emotions:))))
[2011/07/19 15:54]  Jayda Ferrentino: market research would love it
[2011/07/19 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: I’m sure that the ‘net will *explode* in emotion-concealing courses and seminars 🙂
[2011/07/19 15:54]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, there is a guy who goes to the UK, and teaches that, among other things.
[2011/07/19 15:54]  Ivy Sunkiller: oh that reminds me of one ad…
[2011/07/19 15:54]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): He also teaches in the US
[2011/07/19 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: I’m not surprised lol
[2011/07/19 15:54]  Ivy Sunkiller:
[2011/07/19 15:54]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And–laughing–he *is* an ex-Special Forces instructor
[2011/07/19 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2011/07/19 15:55]  Kimiko Yiyuan: It might be useful for AI’s (yeah I know you love those) which would probably count for something like an autist, to communicate with humans easier, in that it would know how to better react to human emotions.
[2011/07/19 15:55]  Zobeid Zuma: I wonder if we could put one of those gadgets onto CSPAN and figure out what all our representatives really think?
[2011/07/19 15:55]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): So if the use is limited, if we learn to work around it, and it has theapeutic and educational applications for autistic people,, (people with autism, to speak PC), then why not have it?
[2011/07/19 15:56]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zoe, yeah, control works both ways–maybe we can use it to controll the controllers?
[2011/07/19 15:56]  Jayda Ferrentino: the ruling political parties would probably limit the use of a device for themselves only
[2011/07/19 15:56]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): The guy who wanted to have a mind control chip in people’s brains originally thought it would be used on despots
[2011/07/19 15:56]  Jayda Ferrentino: the masses would never be allowed to play with that kind of toy
[2011/07/19 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point, Kimiko. I could also imagine it being installed on computers, and let the computer sense your mood and, for instance, if you’re feeling down, pop up a few jokes or kitty movies…
[2011/07/19 15:56]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): (heh; Congress stopped his funding because they thought it would be used *by* despots not against them)
[2011/07/19 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (right, Rhi!)
[2011/07/19 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jayda: unless the specs are published by researchers on an academic journal….
[2011/07/19 15:57]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): my SL viewer knows when I should be logging off and always crashes me right before I should log, but am lingering
[2011/07/19 15:57]  Jayda Ferrentino: you could use it to tell whose sleeping around!
[2011/07/19 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Rhi!
[2011/07/19 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If it’s only visuals, Jayda, I guess it’s just an advanced pattern-matching algorithm for computer-based vision
[2011/07/19 15:57]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): That’s part of Firestorm.
[2011/07/19 15:58]  Jayda Ferrentino: no but you could test moods around other people
[2011/07/19 15:58]  Ivy Sunkiller: Firestorm haven’t crashed for me once yet 🙂
[2011/07/19 15:58]  Ivy Sunkiller: at least not since beta 1 🙂
[2011/07/19 15:58]  Jayda Ferrentino: i bet they’d heighten significantly around certain people
[2011/07/19 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: True story: The reporter in NewScientist who tested this tech was asked ‘think of something from your past. Her first thought was a bit embarrassing so she thought of another, but too late. The experimentor saw a big spike and asked ‘ooo WHAT were you thinking’?
[2011/07/19 15:59]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Ok, Kimi gotta go earlier this time.
[2011/07/19 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the other hand, there are also a few ways to do brain scans to see what people are *thinking*…. but these are definitely not portable 🙂
[2011/07/19 15:59]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): oh, tc, Kimi
[2011/07/19 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Extie
[2011/07/19 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2011/07/19 15:59]  Julie Bluebird (lolli.bluebird): This is one product being tested. Not sure this is either discreet or helps autistic people into main stream society :
[2011/07/19 15:59]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Take care, Kimi
[2011/07/19 16:00]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Bye everybody, have an interesting time.
[2011/07/19 16:00]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi Valerie
[2011/07/19 16:00]  Valerie Evanier: hello everyone
[2011/07/19 16:00]  Zaira Artful: they are having great results with ipads etc with children who are autistic, great learning tool
[2011/07/19 16:00]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Valerie!
[2011/07/19 16:00]  Extropia DaSilva: Hello Valerie:)
[2011/07/19 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay for Steve Jobs 😉
[2011/07/19 16:00]  Julie Bluebird (lolli.bluebird): Hi Val
[2011/07/19 16:01]  Zaira Artful: 🙂
[2011/07/19 16:01]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, well, they can’t see the exact thought
[2011/07/19 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, just pre-trained images.
[2011/07/19 16:01]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And how often are we unconscious during our day-like when we drive? There are ways to shiled against that too, een if they could
[2011/07/19 16:01]  Zaira Artful: we’ve used it for teaching letters , shapes and it seems to be a way some children learn these things faster
[2011/07/19 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t even think that it will be ever possible to “read thoughts” that are not specifically linked to the five senses.
[2011/07/19 16:02]  Valerie Evanier: i’m sorry…what is name of this technology?
[2011/07/19 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Oh, good question–what is the name?
[2011/07/19 16:03]  Julie Bluebird (lolli.bluebird): Those on the spectrum do seem to be more visual learners Zaira. Thanks, that is helpful.
[2011/07/19 16:03]  Zaira Artful: 🙂
[2011/07/19 16:03]  Extropia DaSilva: It does not have a name. You might call it an ’emotion detector’ for that is what it does. The real tech does not work perfectly but for the purpose of this debate we are imagining it does and asking what the consequences would be if it were in daily use.
[2011/07/19 16:04]  Julie Bluebird (lolli.bluebird): That product is iSET
[2011/07/19 16:04]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, it look slike the consequences is that we will all need training to retain our privacy and a lot of people who have a hard time reading emotions will benefit; there will be yet another “lie dectector” at the disposal of law enforcement
[2011/07/19 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That pretty much summarises it, Rhi
[2011/07/19 16:05]  Zobeid Zuma: Maybe we can just retreat to SL and our pretty much expressionless avatars. :/
[2011/07/19 16:05]  Zaira Artful: people with fragile x syndrom would benifit from iSet as well
[2011/07/19 16:05]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zo, not a bad idea
[2011/07/19 16:05]  Extropia DaSilva: Though as it can tell emotions remotely it will probably have a name like…*thinks*…R/emote. There, call the branding agency and tell them Extie did their work for them;)
[2011/07/19 16:05]  Ivy Sunkiller: I like my expresionless avatar
[2011/07/19 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: … by then, LL will be required to have avatars that express what people are emoting, Zo!
[2011/07/19 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hah Extie!
[2011/07/19 16:06]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, well, there are expressions you can buy, so yeah, that will be possible.
[2011/07/19 16:06]  Ivy Sunkiller: face muscle puppeteering?
[2011/07/19 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know, I used them all the time hehe
[2011/07/19 16:07]  Morgaine Dinova: For some reason, that Asimov story in which all the people on a planet lived apart from each other, totally isolated, came to mind. Fearful of other people’s physical presence.
[2011/07/19 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: OK so as soon as the tech is installed in SL I say we get Morgaine into a room and then TP in Prok and we asll sit back and watch the emotions go off the scale:)
[2011/07/19 16:07]  Zaira Artful: rl calls , thank you very informative 🙂
[2011/07/19 16:07]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Morgaine, I can see that happening. lol
[2011/07/19 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: ROFL
[2011/07/19 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: Bye!
[2011/07/19 16:07]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Take care, Zaira 🙂
[2011/07/19 16:07]  Ivy Sunkiller: byes Zaira
[2011/07/19 16:07]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And his story on how the zeroth law came about
[2011/07/19 16:07]  Zaira Artful: 🙂
[2011/07/19 16:07]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): bye Zaira!
[2011/07/19 16:07]  Julie Bluebird (lolli.bluebird): By Zaira 🙂
[2011/07/19 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Morgaine, Asimov was surprisingly visionary on that story. What he described was SL!
[2011/07/19 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: SL in 2030.
[2011/07/19 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): yeah, mutually shared holodecks
[2011/07/19 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: sorry I missed it, What Assimov story is that again?
[2011/07/19 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The Naked Sun” I think
[2011/07/19 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): oh, The Naked Sun
[2011/07/19 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
[2011/07/19 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh, that one.
[2011/07/19 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And in a later book in the series, he had a robot develop the powers we are talking about?
[2011/07/19 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): An realized that to help one human being was to harm another
[2011/07/19 16:09]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): So he had to develop the zeroth law
[2011/07/19 16:09]  Morgaine Dinova: I don’t think I have it on the shelf, unless it’s part of a volume.
[2011/07/19 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: “that one”! It was fantastic. I remember distinctly reading it and saying, “good story, nice plot, but people will NEVER stay at home 24h/day chatting to friends over a computer network”
[2011/07/19 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hah
[2011/07/19 16:09]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, lol
[2011/07/19 16:09]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): But yu’re right…
[2011/07/19 16:09]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): We do leave SL; I mean some of us do anyway
[2011/07/19 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed… gosh, how our world changed.
[2011/07/19 16:09]  Ivy Sunkiller: we do?
[2011/07/19 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Ivy!
[2011/07/19 16:10]  Ivy Sunkiller: 🙂
[2011/07/19 16:10]  Extropia DaSilva: I read Idoru and thought ‘how cool it would be to own your own private island in a virtual space’ and now many people do just that in SL.
[2011/07/19 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, we do; sometimes we use G+ as well… lol
[2011/07/19 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oooh good point, Extie. I remember that I thought that Gibson went too far with the idea of “virtual celebrities”
[2011/07/19 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, I was wrong on all accounts 🙂
[2011/07/19 16:10]  Ivy Sunkiller: there was this t-shirt someone posted on G+, mimicing xbox achievement system, saying:
[2011/07/19 16:11]  Ivy Sunkiller: “ACHIVEMENT UNLOCKED: Left the house”
[2011/07/19 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: anyone want to get us back on topic or would we rather talk about our favorite sci fi stories? 🙂
[2011/07/19 16:11]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): G+ she said, showing her naieveity
[2011/07/19 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: awwwww Extie
[2011/07/19 16:11]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, oooh, pointed.
[2011/07/19 16:12]  Zobeid Zuma: I always like to talk about SF. 🙂
[2011/07/19 16:12]  Ivy Sunkiller: mentioning a variety of sci-fi stories when discussing technologies isn’t that much offtopic really
[2011/07/19 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me is trying to remember some sci-fi story where the author talks about a future society where we can instantly read emotions with a simple device — and fails to recall any
[2011/07/19 16:12]  Zobeid Zuma: Maybe we should just schedule that as a topic sometime.
[2011/07/19 16:12]  Morgaine Dinova: Has Google said anything officially since the pseudonym issue erupted? I know about the individuals making comments (some idiotic), but I mean a real official statement.
[2011/07/19 16:12]  Extropia DaSilva: My fave Assimov tale is about a group who are asking ‘where did The Message come from?’ and then the tale turns to a time travellor watching a battle in world war one, who leaves a little message so that people would know…Dave Killory was here!’
[2011/07/19 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aw. I had a SF group in SL…. we just met twice though, and sadly the virtual presence for that was shut down when the island owner sold the island and went elsewhere 🙂
[2011/07/19 16:13]  Ivy Sunkiller: Morgaine: not that I am aware of one (neither confirming nor debunking the avatar hunt)
[2011/07/19 16:13]  Morgaine Dinova: kk
[2011/07/19 16:13]  Valerie Evanier: can i just throw in a commet
[2011/07/19 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: yes!
[2011/07/19 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: of course!
[2011/07/19 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: Please do:)
[2011/07/19 16:13]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): There are at least a couple of active SF book discussion groups, Gwyn
[2011/07/19 16:13]  Ivy Sunkiller: they got enough bad PR with William Shatner thing 🙂
[2011/07/19 16:13]  Morgaine Dinova: /me watches a comet whoosh past
[2011/07/19 16:13]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): 🙂
[2011/07/19 16:13]  Valerie Evanier: i think a machine like that would help autistic people a lot
[2011/07/19 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *shakes head*
[2011/07/19 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh most definitely, Valerie
[2011/07/19 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is, indeed, the only positive thing about that device that we have discussed so far…
[2011/07/19 16:14]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): That’s what it’s being developed for.
[2011/07/19 16:14]  Valerie Evanier: i also heard about something similar, but that onlty tries to measure consciousness, that would be used by doctors during surgery to make sure people are really out
[2011/07/19 16:14]  Julie Bluebird (lolli.bluebird): I thin the headset version may be more useful than the notebook version in the picture in my earlier post.
[2011/07/19 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder if there are other positive points about it….
[2011/07/19 16:15]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I have to go….take care, everyone 🙂
[2011/07/19 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: Bye!
[2011/07/19 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bye, Violet, take care!
[2011/07/19 16:15]  Valerie Evanier: when i had my son they gave me demerol and i could not move or speak but i was totally aware
[2011/07/19 16:15]  Julie Bluebird (lolli.bluebird): Bye Ataraxia 🙂
[2011/07/19 16:15]  Morgaine Dinova: Dept of Homeland Security is bound to install these devices merely to detect anxiety. Guaranteed.
[2011/07/19 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is anxiety forbidden in the UK now? 🙂
[2011/07/19 16:15]  Morgaine Dinova: US 🙂
[2011/07/19 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH!
[2011/07/19 16:16]  Extropia DaSilva: It always was, Gwyn! Stiff upper lip, what?
[2011/07/19 16:16]  Morgaine Dinova: Everything in the US that doesn’t lead to profit is forbidden.
[2011/07/19 16:16]  Zobeid Zuma: I still can’t get used to there *being* a “Department of Homeland Security”. It sounds like something Marvel Comics would have invented. 😛
[2011/07/19 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol — you’re a Wodehouse fan too, Extie? 😉
[2011/07/19 16:16]  Julie Bluebird (lolli.bluebird): Kinder Gwyneth :))
[2011/07/19 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Morgaine!
[2011/07/19 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: now you *really* know who runs the US…
[2011/07/19 16:17]  Extropia DaSilva: Really? Stan Lee runs the US?
[2011/07/19 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I always suspected a company that draws men in tights for a living….
[2011/07/19 16:17]  Morgaine Dinova: Zob: indeed, it’s right out of joke fiction. Until then, “Homeland” was something you associated with the Gestapo.
[2011/07/19 16:17]  Zobeid Zuma: Stan Lee is great, I think that would be an improvement.
[2011/07/19 16:17]  Extropia DaSilva: He is, Zo:)
[2011/07/19 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Don’t forget, the Nazis will come back from the Moon in 2012, and set everything right:
[2011/07/19 16:18]  Extropia DaSilva: what?
[2011/07/19 16:18]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zobeid, I always call it the Department of Fatherland Security.
[2011/07/19 16:18]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): It seems to fit getter
[2011/07/19 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: ouchie Rhi
[2011/07/19 16:18]  Extropia DaSilva: I will be OK. I have my tinfoil hat to protect me.
[2011/07/19 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it’s just a movie from those crazy Finns that gave us “Star Wrack” a few years ago, Extie)
[2011/07/19 16:19]  Extropia DaSilva: Never heard of it.
[2011/07/19 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Open source, collaborative movie producing 🙂
[2011/07/19 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Never? Aww. Download “Star Wreck”, it’s actually fun.
[2011/07/19 16:19]  Morgaine Dinova: Was there ever a Mars Attacks! 2?
[2011/07/19 16:19]  Extropia DaSilva: Ok we all finished or does anyone have anything else on topic to say?
[2011/07/19 16:19]  Ivy Sunkiller: going to sign off, will have a loooong traveling day tomorrow
[2011/07/19 16:19]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I’m good
[2011/07/19 16:20]  Morgaine Dinova: Extie: Just as a matter of fact, is there already some technology in that space?
[2011/07/19 16:20]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): tc Ivy
[2011/07/19 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I don’t think so, Morgaine; however, Iron Sky is *full* of references to Mars Attacks)
[2011/07/19 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: kk Ivy..
[2011/07/19 16:20]  Ivy Sunkiller: byes 🙂
[2011/07/19 16:20]  Morgaine Dinova: kk Gwyn ;-0
[2011/07/19 16:20]  Ivy Sunkiller: and see you in 3 weeks or so
[2011/07/19 16:20]  Morgaine Dinova: tc Ivy
[2011/07/19 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Happy trip to Paris, Ivy!
[2011/07/19 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Enjoy 🙂
[2011/07/19 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes there is Morgie but it is only in prototype form.
[2011/07/19 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: OK this discusion is closed…
[2011/07/19 16:20]  Morgaine Dinova: tnx Extie
[2011/07/19 16:20]  Zobeid Zuma: Take a picture of Stonehenge for me!
[2011/07/19 16:20]  Ivy Sunkiller: /me waves and poofs
[2011/07/19 16:21]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I should head out too.
[2011/07/19 16:21]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Thanks for a great discussion, as usual, Extie
[2011/07/19 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: NEXT WEEK does not really need a description, since the title says it all which is….(drum roll)…GOOGLE PLUS AND THE PSUEDONYM FUSS.
[2011/07/19 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Take care, Rhi
This entry was posted in after thinkers. Bookmark the permalink.

One Response to Thinkers July 19 2011: Emotion Detectors

  1. Arch says:

    What would be the consequences if such tech became widespread?

    More ppl will lie, and the will do it even better *g*

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