THINKERS JUNE 21 2011: APPOCALPYSE DELAYED.

Extropia DaSilva: Welcome to Thinkers!
[2011/06/21 15:33]  Kimiko Yiyuan: No comment Lucien.
[2011/06/21 15:33]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): sounding like some Kindlelypse, to me, that 13$
[2011/06/21 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: Today the topic is…
[2011/06/21 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: APPOCALYPSE DELAYED: The appocalypse has been postponed. Again. Why does this concept keep reappearing? What does it tell us about ourselves?
[2011/06/21 15:34]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): but the end is near! or at least, getting closer…
[2011/06/21 15:34]  Kimiko Yiyuan: /me listens
[2011/06/21 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: Yeah, bound to come true eventually.
[2011/06/21 15:34]  Lucien Velinov: Everyone is dying. So that is marginally accurate.
[2011/06/21 15:34]  Lem Skall: whoa, I’ve been at so many meetings that a lot seems like deja vu now
[2011/06/21 15:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: heeh Lem
[2011/06/21 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: They are, Lem.
[2011/06/21 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is a difficult topic…
[2011/06/21 15:35]  Zobeid Zuma: It’s not a fringe belief. A majority in the US think we’re living in the End Times, according to one poll that I vaguely remember seeing somewhere!
[2011/06/21 15:35]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): died a thousand times before?
[2011/06/21 15:35]  Simargl Talaj: hmm…who are these “ourselves”? People in the early middle ages had apocalyptic terros and now we today do…I tend to think the reasons are different now than then….but I am very unsure of those reasons.
[2011/06/21 15:35]  Ivy Sunkiller: hoy hoy Rhi, Gwyn, Luh
[2011/06/21 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not surprised, Zo
[2011/06/21 15:35]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Lucien, you are standing on my virtual arm.
[2011/06/21 15:35]  Amandeep Timeless: The Apocalypse is already here, it’s just not evenly distributed. (w/ apologies to Wm. GIbson)
[2011/06/21 15:35]  Lem Skall: where did apocalypse come up the first time?
[2011/06/21 15:35]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Ivy
[2011/06/21 15:35]  Khannea Suntzu: Apocalypse announcement is feeding into a psychoplogical disoeder. Poeple who do not want to admit to themselves they are suicidal and they need team encouragement. These announcements are good. Evoluition in action.
[2011/06/21 15:35]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Thanks, Extie for the tp
[2011/06/21 15:35]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Hi there Rhi.
[2011/06/21 15:35]  Khannea Suntzu: Cleans up the gene pool.
[2011/06/21 15:35]  Lem Skall: it’s not really in the bible, is it?
[2011/06/21 15:35]  Sunfire Langer: to quote my friend ‘If a million people believe something dft, it stillsomething daft’.
[2011/06/21 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, nature has cycles, right? Civilizatons also have cycles; everything comes to an end; so apocalyptic thought is very likely built-in
[2011/06/21 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (love that quote, Sunfire)
[2011/06/21 15:36]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi Lucien
[2011/06/21 15:36]  Lucien Velinov: Well, I’ll not comment on matters concerning the majority of Americans. Let’s just say that it shouldn’t be a gauge for anything to be taken remotely seriously.
[2011/06/21 15:36]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Amand, Ryann, Zobeid, Adur, Lem, Horahmin, Luh
[2011/06/21 15:36]  Ryann Adder: There are two strains of apocalyptic thought. The cyciical and and the absolute. Abrahamic religions take the later
[2011/06/21 15:36]  Zobeid Zuma: John the apostle, maybe. He preached that Jesus was coming back “soon”. He never said when, but he made it sound like it would be within the lifetimes of most people he was preaching to. So they’ve been expecting it Any Time Now ever since.
[2011/06/21 15:36]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi toy
[2011/06/21 15:36]  Lem Skall: what about Americans?
[2011/06/21 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: My problem is that it’s not very easy to say that the end will NOT come.
[2011/06/21 15:36]  Simargl Talaj: In medieval time when most people were almost entirely powerless in almost every way, the idea of an uncontrollable, unavoidable disaster was sort of consistent with their world. Perhaps now days people need to believe it for the opposite reason….to be relieved of a sense of power and accountability.
[2011/06/21 15:36]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Amand, Ryann, Zobeid, Adur, Lem, Horahmin, Luh
[2011/06/21 15:37]  Shorahmin Femto: P T Barnum said it all. There’s a sucker born every minute/ The doom proclaimers are just exploiting the suckers.
[2011/06/21 15:37]  Simargl Talaj: Gwenyth, yes, you can’t prove it 🙂
[2011/06/21 15:37]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): greetings Rhi
[2011/06/21 15:37]  Kimiko Yiyuan: I am with Gwyneth on that one.
[2011/06/21 15:37]  Adur Gaelyth: Hi Rhia ツ
[2011/06/21 15:37]  Amandeep Timeless: the apocalypse is early FoxNews…just make them scared of ANYTHING and they’re easier to manipulate….pure “psych ops” (psychological operations)
[2011/06/21 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I don’t think we’re much different than in the middle ages, Simargi… most people still believe in magic 🙂
[2011/06/21 15:37]  Lem Skall: the coming back of Jesus is the apocalypse? isn’t that judgment day? not the same thing, is it?
[2011/06/21 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s for *Christians* Lem
[2011/06/21 15:37]  Zobeid Zuma: Hmm, I’m not entirely clear on the order of events myself.
[2011/06/21 15:37]  Sunfire Langer: The thing is that any claim of apocalypse and/or armageddon immediately fails the burden of proof
[2011/06/21 15:37]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Gwen
[2011/06/21 15:37]  Simargl Talaj: Amandeep, that idea supposes that apocalyptic cults are promoted by those in power. But mostly they are not. They are disruptive of governance and big institutions like The Church.
[2011/06/21 15:37]  Ryann Adder: The return of jesus is the end of human government, which after 1000 years of his reign will result in a complete destruction and rebirth of the earth in fire
[2011/06/21 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: The appocalypse and judgement day are part of a sequence of events I think.
[2011/06/21 15:38]  Sunfire Langer: only indoctrination can engender such fervent belief
[2011/06/21 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Earth WILL be blown up when the Sun collapses, so, yes, there WILL be an apocalypse 🙂
[2011/06/21 15:38]  Lucien Velinov: Well, most religions fail the burden of proof, but that doesn’t stop people.
[2011/06/21 15:38]  Khannea Suntzu: I visited someone in the US,. Anyone here have ever hedard of the Uranthia book?
[2011/06/21 15:38]  Lem Skall: so is apocalypse, a christian thing?
[2011/06/21 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /nod @ Lucien
[2011/06/21 15:38]  Khannea Suntzu: Holy shit this is some intense shit.
[2011/06/21 15:38]  Zobeid Zuma: My cat is going nuts here. *gasp!* It must be A Sign!
[2011/06/21 15:38]  Ryann Adder: it’s a jewish thing
[2011/06/21 15:38]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): so we worked out one reason for apocalypse proclamation: rule by fear
[2011/06/21 15:38]  Sunfire Langer: its an Abrahamic religion thing, Lem
[2011/06/21 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh we will have built the matrioska brain by then, Gwyn. Oo I have not mentioned the matrioska brain in ages:)
[2011/06/21 15:38]  Simargl Talaj: Sunfire, but these ideas and fervors spring up without indoctrination…they are fringe beliefs , incidental to most Christian teachings.
[2011/06/21 15:38]  Ryann Adder: I think most other ancient religions take a cyclical approach which makes things more fatalistic and pointless, like reincarnation
[2011/06/21 15:39]  Shorahmin Femto: add make money to that list
[2011/06/21 15:39]  Simargl Talaj: Heheh, Extropia:)
[2011/06/21 15:39]  Lem Skall: Abrahamic religion? first time I hear the term
[2011/06/21 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, there are apocalyptic predictions in all major religions
[2011/06/21 15:39]  Ryann Adder: The religion of abraham, jewish patriarch
[2011/06/21 15:39]  Lem Skall: Ryann, you mean judaism?
[2011/06/21 15:39]  Ryann Adder: where christianity and islam traces it’s roots back
[2011/06/21 15:39]  Extropia DaSilva: It refers to Judaism, Christianty and, I think, Islam, Lem.
[2011/06/21 15:39]  Simargl Talaj: Lem: the religions that trace their origins to a divine revelation to Abraham. Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and related offshoots.
[2011/06/21 15:39]  Lucien Velinov: Well, this is one thing we can’t just nail on christianity. Sure, they may have taken the idea and run it to absurdity (like with many borrowed concepts), but Ragnarok and other concepts preceed christianity by a long shot.
[2011/06/21 15:39]  Ryann Adder: abhramic includes the offshoots not just judaism
[2011/06/21 15:39]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): I am so surprised nobody wears a “behold! teh end of teh world iz near” sign
[2011/06/21 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, Lucien.
[2011/06/21 15:40]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): There does seem to be a wish for the apocalypsis right around the milenium; this time, it’s lasted a little longer than usual, but there have always been end of the world cults
[2011/06/21 15:40]  Ryann Adder: oh yeah, ragnarok
[2011/06/21 15:40]  Lem Skall: there are more related offshoots?
[2011/06/21 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: heeh Luh — I can wear a title. “The end of the world is near. Only 6 billion years to go!”
[2011/06/21 15:40]  Khannea Suntzu: /me sings of loving Judas
[2011/06/21 15:40]  Sunfire Langer: Ask a child below the age of 4 what they believe, they’ll tell you what they’ve been taught – these things don’t originate in uniqueness, but in enforced belief, Simargl
[2011/06/21 15:40]  Extropia DaSilva: So for those who buy into this belief, what is in it for them?
[2011/06/21 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: GOOD question, Extie!
[2011/06/21 15:40]  Zobeid Zuma: Is Ragnarok authentic, or is it just something that Christians back-grafted on? Like making Loki into The Devil.
[2011/06/21 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Selling books 🙂
[2011/06/21 15:40]  Lem Skall: control
[2011/06/21 15:40]  Lucien Velinov: Extropia: They usually believe that they are exempt.
[2011/06/21 15:40]  Simargl Talaj: GOod point about Ragnorak and the Gotterdammerung….which didn’t even purport that good would win in the end! The Frost Giants would conquer the gods.
[2011/06/21 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Le is right.
[2011/06/21 15:40]  Lem Skall: who’s Le?
[2011/06/21 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Lem eevn
[2011/06/21 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: grr
[2011/06/21 15:41]  Lem Skall: lol
[2011/06/21 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: SL is eating up characters as usual
[2011/06/21 15:41]  Amandeep Timeless: maybe humans need “an end to the story” for increasing a sense of belonging and comprehension
[2011/06/21 15:41]  Lem Skall: yeah, blame it on SL ;P
[2011/06/21 15:41]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, Revelation was way before the incorpration of nOrse myths, which was mainly NOrthern European
[2011/06/21 15:41]  Simargl Talaj: Well then is there something more universal in human nautre, spanning time and social conditions and greatly differing religions, that explains attraction to apocalypses?
[2011/06/21 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Amandeep, I believe that the notion that everything works in cycles is built-in
[2011/06/21 15:41]  Lucien Velinov: In Ragnarok, the world would be recycled through baptism in fire. The gods would step down and give their lives in battle to save humanity.
[2011/06/21 15:41]  Zobeid Zuma: But were the Frost Giants evil? As far as I know their religion didn’t concern itself all that much with big organized battles between good and evil.
[2011/06/21 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Simargi, I think so.
[2011/06/21 15:41]  Extropia DaSilva: We tend to think of the appocalypse as being about destruction. But it is also a story of renewal, the world made afresh. I guess that could appeal.
[2011/06/21 15:42]  Shorahmin Femto: we like dooms day stories because it allows us to envision us getting even with those we don’t like
[2011/06/21 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cycles!
[2011/06/21 15:42]  Lem Skall: ok, but why is the ending seen as such a negative thing? why not just have EVERYONE going to paradise and be happy ever after?
[2011/06/21 15:42]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): bigfont
[2011/06/21 15:42]  Simargl Talaj: Zo, yes, the Frost Giants would cover creation in ice and end all human happiness.
[2011/06/21 15:42]  Luisa Bourgoin: bigfont
[2011/06/21 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lem: that’s what happens in Christian belief at least 🙂
[2011/06/21 15:42]  Zobeid Zuma: So you say. . .
[2011/06/21 15:42]  Amandeep Timeless: i think we’re in the midst of Trickle Down Armageddon right now
[2011/06/21 15:42]  Sunfire Langer: Mythicism was the way of assuming expertise through the nforced ignorance of a populace – there is no imperative to treat its tenets seriously on principle
[2011/06/21 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, *some* Christian beliefs at least.
[2011/06/21 15:42]  Simargl Talaj: 🙂 Trickle down…
[2011/06/21 15:42]  Extropia DaSilva: Frank Tipler’s omega point is a bit like that, Lem.
[2011/06/21 15:42]  Lem Skall: Gwyn, not everyone
[2011/06/21 15:42]  Khannea Suntzu: Yah and remade in the image of the script of those announcing it “whiny voice” we’ll finally get a break when G-d comes to kill all hose bastards!
[2011/06/21 15:42]  Lucien Velinov: Well, in the days of Ragnarok, the point was less about dying and more about a hell of a battle and going down with a fight.
[2011/06/21 15:42]  Adur Gaelyth: In Forest of Eyeblinks Group they are preparing for the 2012 Apocalypse
[2011/06/21 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The scientific apocalypse is sadly much more negative 🙂
[2011/06/21 15:43]  Zobeid Zuma: Did anybody see that TV show that purported to show what the world would be like if humans suddenly disappeared?
[2011/06/21 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oooh yes. It’s on YouTube too!±
[2011/06/21 15:43]  Adur Gaelyth: the Mayan prophecy
[2011/06/21 15:43]  Ryann Adder: I always thought ragnarok sounded like the counterpart to revelations, from satan’s side.
[2011/06/21 15:43]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zobeid, only the commercial, which had dogs running wild
[2011/06/21 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: No it is not, Gwyn. Saint Ray of Kurzweil is very optimistic.
[2011/06/21 15:43]  Zobeid Zuma: You almost get the feeling some people would like for it to happen. 😛
[2011/06/21 15:43]  Luisa Bourgoin: the end is near
[2011/06/21 15:43]  Lem Skall: Planet of the Apes?
[2011/06/21 15:43]  Lucien Velinov: For the cultic religions, this is mostly a co-opted concept to play on fear and hope. There is something to be afraid of, there is hope with us, everyone else is doomed.
[2011/06/21 15:43]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi Violet!
[2011/06/21 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: ‘damn them all to hell!’
[2011/06/21 15:43]  Simargl Talaj: hmm yes. Perhaps I am wrong to be wondering why people want to believe horrid things. In fact….if you are on the “saved” side, it isn’t horrid. It is…an end to all evil.
[2011/06/21 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: Kurzweil might not be able to fit his optimism into science 😉
[2011/06/21 15:43]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): /me waves
[2011/06/21 15:43]  Sunfire Langer: ‘worshippers of death’ – psychologise that!
[2011/06/21 15:44]  Zobeid Zuma: Violet, hi! Come sit with me! 😀
[2011/06/21 15:44]  Lem Skall: Lucien, it’s not hope, it’s a way to convince people to join so that they are not part of the others
[2011/06/21 15:44]  Adur Gaelyth: the last trend in spirituality sees the Apocalypse as a spiritual awakening
[2011/06/21 15:44]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I think the reason why the end times is both good and bad mythologolically is that well, it will be both good and bad
[2011/06/21 15:44]  Zobeid Zuma: Yay!
[2011/06/21 15:44]  Shorahmin Femto: not an end to evil, an end to my enemies
[2011/06/21 15:44]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): 😛
[2011/06/21 15:44]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Adur, even spiriatual awakening will have an upside and a downside
[2011/06/21 15:44]  Shorahmin Femto: that is the real attraction
[2011/06/21 15:44]  Amandeep Timeless: yep SHoramin
[2011/06/21 15:44]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Camyn
[2011/06/21 15:44]  Lucien Velinov: Ragnarok wasn’t ‘bad’. It was the inevitable.
[2011/06/21 15:44]  Lem Skall: there is no good without evil, you need both sides to have one
[2011/06/21 15:45]  Carmyn Boucher: Hello
[2011/06/21 15:45]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi Carmyn
[2011/06/21 15:45]  Khannea Suntzu: Oh yes the apocalyopse crowd is real easy on declaring Hell/Auschwitz on the people they redgard as ‘to blame’. That’s why I am not so fond of this sentinment. Anyone here ever read the comments at a site such as “Vigilant Citizen’ ? These are totally kristalnacht people.
[2011/06/21 15:45]  Lucien Velinov: There was no ‘punishment’ for non-belief. None of the absurd rituals and coersions involved.
[2011/06/21 15:45]  Shorahmin Femto: apocalypse stories are weapons used against those we want to be outsiders
[2011/06/21 15:45]  Adur Gaelyth: the point is, some say the Apocalypse=spiritual awakening will happen only for some people
[2011/06/21 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hehe this weekend I was watching “Constantine” again with a friend who admits to be a “sucker for these kind of things” (his words, not mine). He said he loved the idea of a “battle between Good and Evil”. My roomie asked him which side he was on; note: he’s a neonazi 😉 To which question he hesitaed, and said: “The GOOD one of course!” And I replied: “well, the problem is that everybody thinks they’re on the good side…”
[2011/06/21 15:45]  Adur Gaelyth: the resto of the world will go on as id nothing happened
[2011/06/21 15:45]  Sunfire Langer: Sprituality needs t shake off ALL the dogma of past religions and see them as outdated – I welcome its insight, but until its up to date, it cant be considered appropriate, Adur
[2011/06/21 15:46]  Shorahmin Femto: Adur, they ALL say that in some way
[2011/06/21 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Khannea: I read that once in a whilke… scary
[2011/06/21 15:46]  Khannea Suntzu: Constantine is hot. He actually exists, dated him.
[2011/06/21 15:46]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Do apocalypses have to be shady?
[2011/06/21 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: For me the most interesting thing is that when life goes on as usual it only strengthens the believer’s resolve. THey see it as having been delayed because merciful god heard their prayers.
[2011/06/21 15:46]  Khannea Suntzu: He looks totally different IRL
[2011/06/21 15:46]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Can’t they be about our mortality writ large?
[2011/06/21 15:46]  Shorahmin Femto: no point to an apocalypse if everyone gets saved
[2011/06/21 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Khannea! Did you date Constantine or Keanu reeves? 🙂
[2011/06/21 15:46]  Zobeid Zuma: I’ve got the impression that most pagan religions concerned themselves with Good and Evil. . . but very few of them divided their cosmogeny up into an organized Army of Good versus an organized Army of Evil.
[2011/06/21 15:46]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Acapolyspses are really awayto deal out punishment and reeward for good behavior
[2011/06/21 15:46]  Khannea Suntzu: No the actual constantine depicted in the movie. Slayer of Demons and all that.
[2011/06/21 15:46]  Zobeid Zuma: They more often tended to have a populace of supernatural beings that were — like humans — a mixture of good and bad.
[2011/06/21 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
[2011/06/21 15:47]  Lucien Velinov: Most pagan religions weren’t political ploys involved in control and grabs for power.
[2011/06/21 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: You mean an exorcist, Khannea? 🙂
[2011/06/21 15:47]  Lem Skall: THE exorcist?
[2011/06/21 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Lucien. That’s a bolkd claim!
[2011/06/21 15:47]  Khannea Suntzu: He was more hands-on.
[2011/06/21 15:47]  Amandeep Timeless: Pagan Rights!
[2011/06/21 15:47]  Extropia DaSilva: I want to marry Kheanu Reeves. I have been thinking about it a lot, recently and, you know, I think he may be The One?
[2011/06/21 15:47]  Lem Skall: lol Khan
[2011/06/21 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahahah Extie!!!!!!
[2011/06/21 15:47]  Khannea Suntzu: The power of christ compells you and all that, but with swords
[2011/06/21 15:47]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): hahaha Extie :p
[2011/06/21 15:47]  Adur Gaelyth: lol
[2011/06/21 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: worth coming here just for my jokes. Uhuh.
[2011/06/21 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Khannea, Christ is the son of the Lord of Armies… 🙂 So swords have to come in at some point.
[2011/06/21 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I fully agree, Extie)
[2011/06/21 15:48]  Sunfire Langer: ‘it is senseless to divide people into good or bad; people ar eithe charming or tedious’.
[2011/06/21 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi, where did you go??
[2011/06/21 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *scratches head*
[2011/06/21 15:48]  Ryann Adder: Except his word is described as a sword, he commands defeat
[2011/06/21 15:48]  Lem Skall: lol, you people remind me of Good Omens
[2011/06/21 15:48]  Simargl Talaj: I don’t think we can know that pagan religions weren’t tools of power. We dont’ actually know much about them at all. Much has been made up in modern times and attributed to antiquity on no evidence whatsoever.
[2011/06/21 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh yes a fantastiuc book, Lem 🙂
[2011/06/21 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: wb Rhi
[2011/06/21 15:49]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): wb Rhia
[2011/06/21 15:49]  Khannea Suntzu: That whole middle east meme is so based on that tribalist culture. I think it’s genetic. “there is a strog genetic tendency to racism in these people”
[2011/06/21 15:49]  Shorahmin Femto: Christ’s “Sword” was his word if you bother to read the damn book instead of just quote it
[2011/06/21 15:49]  Zobeid Zuma: Well, I still like the first draft of The Bible where they had yaweh riding forth in his chariot of fire, stabbing rahab through the heart, crushing leviathan’s skull, etc. :/
[2011/06/21 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah wb Rhi!
[2011/06/21 15:49]  Adur Gaelyth: more than good and bad, I would say it is about heaven and hell
[2011/06/21 15:49]  Zobeid Zuma: God as Action Hero
[2011/06/21 15:49]  Khannea Suntzu: smite smite smite
[2011/06/21 15:49]  Simargl Talaj: Heheh Zo 🙂
[2011/06/21 15:49]  Sunfire Langer: Dogma remains in its own bounds and is ineffectual to all else
[2011/06/21 15:49]  Adur Gaelyth: this world is becoming hell for many people
[2011/06/21 15:49]  Lucien Velinov: Seriously, who actually reads the bible anymore?
[2011/06/21 15:49]  Simargl Talaj: Ihave read it a number of times.
[2011/06/21 15:49]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): ty Gwyn
[2011/06/21 15:49]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Hm, well i do not think that the whole “concept” (i am not sure if I would call it just a concept, it a too big of a collective feeling for that, I think) cannot just simply to relegion and by that, because that is often an undertone, to releigious fanatics or stupid people. I think it is actually something really universal, that of course kind of naturally is tied to religious beliefs, but not only.
[2011/06/21 15:49]  Lem Skall: heck, if I were an angel I would rebel too and maybe become Lucifer
[2011/06/21 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Simargl., there are still a LOT of pagan religions — spoecially outside EUrope — and they most certainly are about control, too.
[2011/06/21 15:49]  Ryann Adder: reading and understanding don’t always go together
[2011/06/21 15:49]  Zobeid Zuma: Then later they decided all that was beneath His dignity and turned him into a cosmic bureaucrat.
[2011/06/21 15:50]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I thought for a moment, the Rapture had happened.
[2011/06/21 15:50]  Amandeep Timeless: usually not the people who hold it up against others
[2011/06/21 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lucien: reading the Bible is *dangerous*, pºeople might take it literally…
[2011/06/21 15:50]  Lem Skall: wait how does hell and the devil fit with the apocalypse
[2011/06/21 15:50]  Simargl Talaj: Rapture. RL sim restart…..
[2011/06/21 15:50]  Lem Skall: ?
[2011/06/21 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: I read a bit of it. Up to ‘Judges’ I think. Read the last chapter too. Found it a bit weird, to be honest.
[2011/06/21 15:50]  Carmyn Boucher: Lots and LOTS of people read the Bible. Check out how much shelf space is devoted to them at any Borders or Barnes
[2011/06/21 15:50]  Ryann Adder: the return of christ i the overthrow of satan’s dominion over this world
[2011/06/21 15:50]  Adur Gaelyth: so the believers in the Apocalypsis hope there will be heaven for the chosen few at least
[2011/06/21 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, it’s still a bestseller 🙂
[2011/06/21 15:50]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Well, Beowolf never settled down and took a desk job, and look where that got him! :p
[2011/06/21 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: It is the all time best seller, I believe.
[2011/06/21 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye 🙂
[2011/06/21 15:50]  Lem Skall: hey, not fair to Satan
[2011/06/21 15:51]  Sunfire Langer: Theology, a whole devoted toavoiding th evetual embarrassment
[2011/06/21 15:51]  Zobeid Zuma: The problem is, they carefully cherry-pick the few bits that can be twisted to support whatever they’ve already decided they want to do.
[2011/06/21 15:51]  Sunfire Langer: a whole science*
[2011/06/21 15:51]  Amandeep Timeless: yep
[2011/06/21 15:51]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Sunfire, that’s funny
[2011/06/21 15:51]  Lucien Velinov: Lots of people look at the bible and wave it around and cherrypick some things. Mostly they just speak out of their ass and say ‘yeah, it’s in there’
[2011/06/21 15:51]  Zobeid Zuma: I mean, they used to quote the Bible to justify slavery. 😛
[2011/06/21 15:51]  Adur Gaelyth: when the Apocalypse comes those who are asleep will be condemned to Hell… that’s the idea
[2011/06/21 15:51]  Simargl Talaj: Have we strayed from the topic? How do we think these observatons about religion explain the fervant *attraction* of people to the relatively minor part of Christianity that supports the idea of a horrrible apocalypse?
[2011/06/21 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes 🙂
[2011/06/21 15:51]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Apocalyptic thinking, if we might call it that is, I think rooted in the structure of human how people live together.
[2011/06/21 15:51]  Khannea Suntzu: Anyone ever heard of Nixon’s MadMan strategy?
[2011/06/21 15:51]  Simargl Talaj: Kimiko, how so?
[2011/06/21 15:52]  Lem Skall: I think we agree it’s meant as punishment
[2011/06/21 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Kimiko. And by observation: civilizations collapse. Nothing lasts for ever. So one day even the planet will collapse.
[2011/06/21 15:52]  Carmyn Boucher: The horrible apaocalypse is only to coax people into avoiding it by becomming saved
[2011/06/21 15:52]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Just like thinking about the afterlife, or thinking about the differences of men and women or our relationship with nature.
[2011/06/21 15:52]  Carmyn Boucher: No one actually intends to be around for it
[2011/06/21 15:52]  Lem Skall: something to keep the flock together
[2011/06/21 15:52]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Mont
[2011/06/21 15:52]  Zobeid Zuma: BTW, I grew up mostly during the Cold War when the end of the world was not a far-fetched idea at all. So that may have influenced the thinking of a lot of people.
[2011/06/21 15:52]  Carmyn Boucher: They expect to save everyone in their circle and everyone else be damned
[2011/06/21 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes in the 20th century, Zo 🙂
[2011/06/21 15:52]  Simargl Talaj: Kimiko, what way of life do you think would *not* encourage belief in supernatural apocalypse?
[2011/06/21 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But apocalyptic thought is as old as writing.,
[2011/06/21 15:52]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, there is a them vs us in any apocalypse, but what’s interesting is how all the end of the world beliefs, een the secular ones, resemble the one in Revelation
[2011/06/21 15:53]  Lem Skall: Sunday mess would be a lot more boring if there wasn’t something about apocalypse once in a while
[2011/06/21 15:53]  Zobeid Zuma: Yes, I remember the 20th Century!
[2011/06/21 15:53]  Lucien Velinov: Well, belief in a supernatural apocalypse isn’t a problem. It’s a symptom of a problem.
[2011/06/21 15:53]  Carmyn Boucher: There isnt much in the word bad enough to convince most people from doing as they please.
[2011/06/21 15:53]  Lem Skall: mass*
[2011/06/21 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Really, Rhi…. what do you mean, John was copying everybody else? 🙂
[2011/06/21 15:53]  Zobeid Zuma: I think I may have been in part of it, even.
[2011/06/21 15:53]  Amandeep Timeless: yes, Gwyneth, one of our earliest approximations for the end of worlds (in both cyclic and linear senses)
[2011/06/21 15:53]  Carmyn Boucher: And at the time of the writing of the bible, Apocalypse seemed like enough
[2011/06/21 15:53]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I think for fundamentalists, the apocalypse is an impossible hope for some kind of weird justice; but the idea of an apocalypse shows up across the world in quite a few ways….I think if there’s any common thread, it’s that we can’t really imagine endless time. Stuff has to end somewhere.
[2011/06/21 15:53]  Carmyn Boucher: I suppose christians better up the ante now
[2011/06/21 15:53]  Adur Gaelyth: oh I think Zobeid said something important: we are in the nuclear era… the Apocalypse is a real possobility
[2011/06/21 15:53]  Kimiko Yiyuan: I think we actually moved beyond what you call supernatural apocalypse quite some time ago Gwyneth.
[2011/06/21 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: OK we need to bare in mind that the appocalypse is not the end of the world per se, but the transformation of the world. Kind of like the Singularity but without the exponential growth of computing and self-replicating nanobots etc.
[2011/06/21 15:54]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): i’m not sure apolyptic talk is designed to make people change their ways, anyway; as it is supposed to be inevitable.
[2011/06/21 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Violet: indeed. Stuff must end.
[2011/06/21 15:54]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Either John copied all those before and after him, or it was the othe way around.
[2011/06/21 15:54]  Zobeid Zuma: I’m not sure everybody sees it that way, Extie.
[2011/06/21 15:54]  Lem Skall: wait, was apocalypse in the old testament or in the “new one”?
[2011/06/21 15:54]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Who knows? He could have been a time traveler
[2011/06/21 15:54]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Just look at it, every time had its apocalyptic scenarios…
[2011/06/21 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kimiko: “we”? 🙂
[2011/06/21 15:54]  Carmyn Boucher: The apocalypse is inevitable, but if you are saved, you avoid it via rapture
[2011/06/21 15:54]  Simargl Talaj: Well, but consider, the Christian apocalypse cults don’t propose that you have to do anything in particular to be spared. Behavior isn’t channeled by these cults. Just belief. Faith is what will save them, not any particular way of life.
[2011/06/21 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: I do not care how some see it. That is the definition.
[2011/06/21 15:54]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Lem, it is in both, but we mainly associate it with the New
[2011/06/21 15:54]  Carmyn Boucher: So absolutely it is a bargaining chip
[2011/06/21 15:54]  Kimiko Yiyuan: We as a society, or as humaity as a whole.
[2011/06/21 15:55]  Carmyn Boucher: strictly speaking, there isnt even life after death until the apocalypse happens anyways
[2011/06/21 15:55]  Lucien Velinov: It’s the end of the world as we know it. But most who advocate it have the camps of ‘us’ (magically exempt) and ‘them’ (fucked)
[2011/06/21 15:55]  Adur Gaelyth: I disagree Rhia: the Apocalypse is inevitable, but we are supposed to try to awaken before it comes
[2011/06/21 15:55]  Shorahmin Femto: I like that extie, Kurzweil is just as nutty an apocalyptic writer as John of Patmos was
[2011/06/21 15:55]  Simargl Talaj: SO these cults do not seem to serve any purpose for anyone trying to affect behavior.
[2011/06/21 15:55]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Sure there are still those that might believe in something like a supernatural apocalypse.
[2011/06/21 15:55]  Carmyn Boucher: so hardcore x-tians cant wait for shit to hit the fan
[2011/06/21 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do you think so? The more I look around myself, the more I see people still believing in magic and the supranatural…
[2011/06/21 15:55]  Extropia DaSilva: how do you know, Carmyn?
[2011/06/21 15:55]  Carmyn Boucher: hence the prosletizing
[2011/06/21 15:55]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Apocalypse just means revealing, I think. It could be something that happens to one person, while the world keeps puttering on as it always has.
[2011/06/21 15:55]  Lem Skall: I’m wondering, if religion will disappear, will the concept of apocalypse go with it?
[2011/06/21 15:55]  Carmyn Boucher: (anecdotally of course)
[2011/06/21 15:55]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Wow, Sunfire is gone; I guess it’s really true, the sim isn’t big enoough for the both of us
[2011/06/21 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be the religion’s apocalypse :)=
[2011/06/21 15:55]  Extropia DaSilva: Religion will not disappear. Not while humans remain in existence.
[2011/06/21 15:56]  Zobeid Zuma: People will believe almsot anything as long as they don’t have any direct personal stake in the subject. When it comes to affecting their lives, they become much more skeptical.
[2011/06/21 15:56]  Lucien Velinov: Christians like the Apocalypse because it validates their faith. ‘Punishment’ for a world that is turning farther and farther away from their faith.
[2011/06/21 15:56]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, well, spirituality, anyway
[2011/06/21 15:56]  Kimiko Yiyuan: I am pretty sure of that. Also i do not think that believing in magic or something supernatural is necessarily connected to a supernatural beliefe of an apocalypse.
[2011/06/21 15:56]  Khannea Suntzu: Its simple for me, regarding Singularity I fully anticipate everyone to die. And then I say its better than the alkternative. Not much glory in such a message.
[2011/06/21 15:56]  Amandeep Timeless: not while tithing remains in existence! 🙂
[2011/06/21 15:56]  Extropia DaSilva: is there a difference, Rhi?
[2011/06/21 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that could be said about any religion, right, Lucien? :_)
[2011/06/21 15:56]  Lem Skall: it may be that religion in the sense of gods will disappear even if there will be some form of spirituality left
[2011/06/21 15:56]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Kim, there are secular apocalypses
[2011/06/21 15:56]  Ryann Adder: global warming lol
[2011/06/21 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, global war
[2011/06/21 15:56]  Khannea Suntzu: UFO shit yes
[2011/06/21 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: ming
[2011/06/21 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
[2011/06/21 15:56]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, I think there is; religion entails dogma
[2011/06/21 15:57]  Zobeid Zuma: That’s one reason why so many believe that The End is Near (for some undefined value of “near”) yet the same people will ridicule a group that says it’s coming Next Week. Because Next Week would actually matter.
[2011/06/21 15:57]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): It helps if you’re poor or don’t have a lot going for you in this life, too…someday, the tables might turn and you’ll get a fair chance
[2011/06/21 15:57]  Lucien Velinov: That’s the thing, Gwyneth. Not all religions have this problem. Just very specific ones 😛
[2011/06/21 15:57]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Just look at it…every time has its own apocalypses, its own apocalyptic scenarios.
[2011/06/21 15:57]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And interestingly enough, all the secular ones reflect something in Revelation–killer asteroids–wormword
[2011/06/21 15:57]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I have stuff to do next week!
[2011/06/21 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, Lucien 🙂
[2011/06/21 15:57]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): naw no global war anymore – to expensive. tight on budgets, now
[2011/06/21 15:57]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): World dictatorships
[2011/06/21 15:57]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Final battles
[2011/06/21 15:57]  Lem Skall: actually there are so many posy-apocalyptic movies that have nothing with religion
[2011/06/21 15:57]  Lem Skall: post*
[2011/06/21 15:57]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Just like Rhi said, they do not necessarily have to do anything with the supernatural.
[2011/06/21 15:57]  Extropia DaSilva: yeah like 2012, Lem
[2011/06/21 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh ok,. I see your point, Kimiko!
[2011/06/21 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re right.
[2011/06/21 15:58]  Lem Skall: Waterworld, the Max movies, The Road
[2011/06/21 15:58]  Extropia DaSilva: yep
[2011/06/21 15:58]  Amandeep Timeless: a spiritual lottery …
[2011/06/21 15:58]  Khannea Suntzu: Oh yes Violet. The poor and underpowered are pretty fucked in this world. Imagine the day all those people have access to nanotech replicators. I know I had my days if I had the power, I’d loved to have inflictred a few indiscriminate megadeaths.
[2011/06/21 15:58]  Zobeid Zuma: That comes out of religion! Mayan religion filtered through New Age mumbo-jumbo, but still. . .
[2011/06/21 15:58]  Carmyn Boucher: Waterworld = best movie EVER
[2011/06/21 15:58]  Extropia DaSilva: Planet Of The Apes, in a way.
[2011/06/21 15:58]  Lucien Velinov: Let me know when a Cabal of scientists start blowing money and coercing people over speculative guesses of an asteroid that is ‘eventually bound to hit us anytime now’
[2011/06/21 15:58]  Shorahmin Femto: all methods to sparate us from our money
[2011/06/21 15:58]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): The Road is supposed to be some kind of spiritual allegory, I think, but I have no idea what.
[2011/06/21 15:58]  Lem Skall: I AM Legend
[2011/06/21 15:58]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): Mad Max doesn’t depictures the end … more an alternative ending
[2011/06/21 15:58]  Khannea Suntzu: Can yolu ban Carmyn please, extropia.
[2011/06/21 15:58]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, yes, for the really bad peo0ole–the humans
[2011/06/21 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: heeh Khannea
[2011/06/21 15:58]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): even inside waterworld, the world still exists
[2011/06/21 15:58]  Kimiko Yiyuan: In the paranoid time after WW2, in what we call the cold war it have been alien invasions (no that is not supernatural) and the nuclear fear.
[2011/06/21 15:59]  Lucien Velinov: I’m surprised someone hasn’t done that yet.
[2011/06/21 15:59]  Khannea Suntzu: waterworld
[2011/06/21 15:59]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, yes, the world still exist in John’s too; in fact, it becomes perfect.
[2011/06/21 15:59]  Khannea Suntzu: good gods
[2011/06/21 15:59]  Lucien Velinov: “The asteroid is coming any day now. We can’t stop it unless you give us your money”
[2011/06/21 15:59]  Lem Skall: so why so many post-apocalyptic movies and why do we like them?
[2011/06/21 15:59]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Why God couldn’t hae made it perfect the first time–I guess it was a beta
[2011/06/21 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: There’s a nice apocalypse: http://www.ironsky.net/ 😉
[2011/06/21 15:59]  Khannea Suntzu: John Titor
[2011/06/21 15:59]  Lem Skall: oh btw, even Matrix is one in a way
[2011/06/21 15:59]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): nuclear fear has been quite real
[2011/06/21 15:59]  Lem Skall: Terminator
[2011/06/21 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: On The beach as an appocalyptic movie.
[2011/06/21 15:59]  Kimiko Yiyuan: In the 1970s after the oilshock people were afraid (a bit like today) that oil would run out and we would soon be living in some stone age.
[2011/06/21 15:59]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Lem, I guess it’s because of our need to get the punishment over with; to see that justice is done
[2011/06/21 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: Matrix is good because it is the end and the renewal.
[2011/06/21 16:00]  Khannea Suntzu: What did I hear that correctly “The Bitch as Apocalypse Movie” ?
[2011/06/21 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2011/06/21 16:00]  Khannea Suntzu: Oh The *Beach*
[2011/06/21 16:00]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Yeah, Asutralia as the saving remnant
[2011/06/21 16:00]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And here we allthought it would be Israel
[2011/06/21 16:00]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Well….people are usually freer, after an apocalypse….they spend all their time outside, having adventures. We spend all our time inside, doing boring things :p
[2011/06/21 16:00]  Adur Gaelyth: some say Humanity is splitting into two separate species: we could call them the lambs and the goats lol
[2011/06/21 16:00]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): stone age, perhaps more a “hand cranked” civilisation
[2011/06/21 16:00]  Khannea Suntzu: Uhm eloi and morlocks rather
[2011/06/21 16:00]  Zobeid Zuma: /me is probably turning into an old goat. 😦
[2011/06/21 16:00]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Violet, yeah, I just finished my taxes, but as I’m getting a refund, I’m good.
[2011/06/21 16:01]  Extropia DaSilva: ..I am sorry but did I hear correctly? Did someone say Waterworld is the best movie ever?
[2011/06/21 16:01]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): lol
[2011/06/21 16:01]  Khannea Suntzu: Idiocracy
[2011/06/21 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh I like that Khannea!
[2011/06/21 16:01]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Khannea, yes, a super-Marxist apocalpyse
[2011/06/21 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Idiocracy indeed.
[2011/06/21 16:01]  Extropia DaSilva: Never thought I would live to see the day….
[2011/06/21 16:01]  Amandeep Timeless: peak oil or not, in 10,000 yeas we’ll have sloar and biofuel perptuity systems, we’re just too greedy to start getting close to that now
[2011/06/21 16:01]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Idiocracy is about class; the genetics stuff is dumb 😦
[2011/06/21 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (they did, Extie 🙂 Nopw the world surely must end!)
[2011/06/21 16:01]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): You mean “Kevin’s Gate” or “Fishtar”
[2011/06/21 16:01]  Lem Skall: Extie, not the best movie ever but really entertaining
[2011/06/21 16:01]  Extropia DaSilva: I like it.
[2011/06/21 16:01]  Lucien Velinov: I don’t see how Idiocracy has anything to do with marxists. Especially as the democratic state was still intact.
[2011/06/21 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I still am not sure why women didn’t need to pee in Waterworld.
[2011/06/21 16:02]  Kimiko Yiyuan: And in the happy 90s with the emergence of modern infirmation technologies and robotics, the robots were the ones taking everything over, the artificial intelligences and the genetically altered.
[2011/06/21 16:02]  Kimiko Yiyuan: And todaqy we have the climate change…
[2011/06/21 16:02]  Lem Skall: Rhi, where did you get that from?
[2011/06/21 16:02]  Carmyn Boucher: I dont recall the not peeing, must re-watch
[2011/06/21 16:02]  Simargl Talaj: SO far I am hearing three themes of explanation for apocalyptic belief: 1) Deliberate manipulation by religious authorities; 2) Inevitable outcome of religion with angry punishing gods; 3) human need to feel part of a very important group, the “saved”, which can only exist in contrast to a vast Unsaved. Have I missed anything?
[2011/06/21 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Lem, here was a scene where Kevin had to recycle his urine, but the girls he took on didn’t.
[2011/06/21 16:03]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): But it doesn’t matter
[2011/06/21 16:03]  Extropia DaSilva: Well in The Matrix and according to my beliefs, increasingly smart robotics is one way in which an appocalypse can occur.
[2011/06/21 16:03]  Lem Skall: ah, so they urinate, it’s just that their urine is not good enough
[2011/06/21 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d add to that list, Simargl, a natural observation that everything runs in cycles that must end.
[2011/06/21 16:03]  Simargl Talaj: 4) A sense of allt hings being cyclical. Yes!! Thanks Gwyneth.
[2011/06/21 16:03]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Of course, there is always Colassus, were AI is the way to avoid the Apocalypse
[2011/06/21 16:03]  Amandeep Timeless: #2) – maybe a recognition of the inevitable collapse of a society and it’s an attempt at explaining such
[2011/06/21 16:04]  Zobeid Zuma: There was an interesting genre of end-of-the-world movies, where the handful of survivors could live in relative comfort and safety while they worked to rebuild civilization. Cheerful apocalypse.
[2011/06/21 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s what I meant with “everything running in cycles”; civilizations too
[2011/06/21 16:04]  Simargl Talaj: 5) anxiety at the weakness of societies…right! Kimoko and Zo.
[2011/06/21 16:04]  Lem Skall: I think that the apocalypse is making a good stage for good versus evil and that is a quintessential subject
[2011/06/21 16:04]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Record of a Yokohama Shopping Trip 🙂
[2011/06/21 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh I like that anxiety bit.
[2011/06/21 16:04]  Extropia DaSilva: Kind of hard to study the singularity without noticing one or two parallels with appocalpyptic thinking.
[2011/06/21 16:04]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Apocalyptic movies are a way of dealing with anxiety safetly
[2011/06/21 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lem: I agree. When things come to an end, you want to be on the side that survives., Thus the good vs. evil issue.
[2011/06/21 16:04]  Amandeep Timeless: MATRIX will become a movie theatre….you can BE Iron Man!
[2011/06/21 16:04]  Simargl Talaj: 6) moral sense, a belief in the necessity of a great judgement against great evil.
[2011/06/21 16:05]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, yes, the perfect earth=perfect humanity
[2011/06/21 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: like football is a substitute for war? 🙂
[2011/06/21 16:05]  Kimiko Yiyuan: And as we see, also by what Extropia just said, apocalypse went far from the roots it might have had in religions. Today it is science that tells us how or in what form or even when the end might be possible and come. And damn, are some scientists happy to smear that in everybodies faces.
[2011/06/21 16:05]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And I’m sure some Christians will say, ‘See, we told you so,” when the Singularity hits
[2011/06/21 16:05]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Like chips and smart cards are supposed to be ths sign of the beast
[2011/06/21 16:05]  Kimiko Yiyuan: And this Singularity fits just perfectly in.
[2011/06/21 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oooh I love that, Kimiko! A pity that Scarp isn’t around to read that 🙂
[2011/06/21 16:05]  Lem Skall: think also of the apocalypse as the idea of “if you and I are the last people on earth then we have to reporpulate the earth together”
[2011/06/21 16:05]  Simargl Talaj: hmm, okay, so, 7) not entirely irrational anxiety based on real material possibilities of mass destruction…climate change, nuclear war.
[2011/06/21 16:05]  Extropia DaSilva: Of course if you mention that you get ‘I am not religious! I do not believe in God!…anyway, so when the SAI uploads us into cyberparadise all left behind will be eaten by the four horsemen of the nanobots…”
[2011/06/21 16:05]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I don’t think the idea that the world might end is exclusive to religion…it’s almost like the reverse of mortality salience
[2011/06/21 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lem 🙂
[2011/06/21 16:06]  Lucien Velinov: What scientists are clamoring ‘apocalypse’? Seriously. I want to hear this.
[2011/06/21 16:06]  Simargl Talaj: 8) Thehope for six women per every man?
[2011/06/21 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Extie
[2011/06/21 16:06]  Kimiko Yiyuan: New wine in old ….how goes that? i forgot the word.
[2011/06/21 16:06]  Simargl Talaj: wineskins
[2011/06/21 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lucien: global warming
[2011/06/21 16:06]  Lem Skall: Lucien: nuclear war
[2011/06/21 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and that’s just one type
[2011/06/21 16:06]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, that woulds be good; will keep the men in their place; now, if they think they’ll get all the sex from us they want–heh.
[2011/06/21 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: heeh Rhi
[2011/06/21 16:06]  Extropia DaSilva: Science, specifically astrophysics, has its end of the world scenario. And a renewal. See the life cycle of solar systems.
[2011/06/21 16:06]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): We’ll make them beg for it.
[2011/06/21 16:07]  Amandeep Timeless: scientists vector AWAY from apocalypse
[2011/06/21 16:07]  Khannea Suntzu: Rather men should struggle to keep up
[2011/06/21 16:07]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I like the ones in theoretical physics.
[2011/06/21 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Not even if you’re the last man on Earth…. Oh. Forgot. You are.!
[2011/06/21 16:07]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, lol
[2011/06/21 16:07]  Simargl Talaj: AMandeep, yes, but realistic dangers promote the general *feeling* that the end might be near, I think.
[2011/06/21 16:07]  Zobeid Zuma: I just saw a new report that the *oceans* are dying. So there’s one more way for everything to fall apart.
[2011/06/21 16:07]  Simargl Talaj: Heheh Gwyn 🙂
[2011/06/21 16:07]  Lucien Velinov: You mean when people DID have nukes and WERE threatening to kill everyone? Or the fact that there ARE radical changes to the environment that need to be negotiated? That’s a far cry from ‘my superstition says something bad is happening to everyone but me’
[2011/06/21 16:07]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): There was a Sliders, were a virus almost wiped out the men; they were kept in farms to make them sire babies
[2011/06/21 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think Simargl is right.
[2011/06/21 16:07]  Kimiko Yiyuan: we have global warming, yes. But we also have more exotic ones. Or not so exotic ones at all. We have viral outbreaks, of which some in the scientific community say it is not a question if it will come one day but just when. we have meteorites, of wich science says pretty much the same.
[2011/06/21 16:08]  Shorahmin Femto: I think my gonads have to go in now…
[2011/06/21 16:08]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Like how in some ridiculous length of time, matter won’t be able to hold together anymore and the universe will hit maximum entropy and be total randomness
[2011/06/21 16:08]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Meteorities==wormword
[2011/06/21 16:08]  Lem Skall: asteroids crashing
[2011/06/21 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: ‘It is all dying, the oceans are dying…it was people! It was made out ot PEOPLE!’
[2011/06/21 16:08]  Kimiko Yiyuan: we have such things as gamma ray bursts or solar flare that might just shut down all electronics, they say…
[2011/06/21 16:08]  Lem Skall: or meteors
[2011/06/21 16:08]  Kimiko Yiyuan: and so on and so on….
[2011/06/21 16:08]  Lem Skall: running out of oil
[2011/06/21 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: Supervolcanic eruption..
[2011/06/21 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kimiko: yes, and biomass varietydepletion; end of fresh water; the food distribution problem; and so forth. So yes, I agree, there are a lot of ‘scientific apocalypses’ around
[2011/06/21 16:09]  Kimiko Yiyuan: yes, that too extropia.
[2011/06/21 16:09]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Superragelisticexpialadotious eruptions.
[2011/06/21 16:09]  Simargl Talaj: Okay, so, I hear support for number 7. Enough to include it as one of our themes of explanation 🙂
[2011/06/21 16:09]  Lucien Velinov: Like I said, let me know when a cabal of scientists springs forth demanding wild and unsubstantiated speculation to be taken seriously.
[2011/06/21 16:09]  Zobeid Zuma: Modern attitudes toward science are summed up by the Mars University motto: “Knowledge Brings Fear”
[2011/06/21 16:09]  Extropia DaSilva: Running out of oil is not the end of the world, merely our civilization.
[2011/06/21 16:09]  Simargl Talaj: ANy more? What did I miss?
[2011/06/21 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Lucien — I’ll lend you a flamethrower 🙂
[2011/06/21 16:09]  Amandeep Timeless: LOL Rhi
[2011/06/21 16:09]  Extropia DaSilva: I say ‘merely”
[2011/06/21 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, Extie!
[2011/06/21 16:09]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, well, many of the scenarios are just the end of civilazation as we know it
[2011/06/21 16:09]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Most apocalypses aren’t really the end of everything…there’s always a new world
[2011/06/21 16:09]  Lucien Velinov: Seriously. Threat analysis isn’t ‘Apocalypse’.
[2011/06/21 16:09]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): /me winks at Amand
[2011/06/21 16:09]  Lem Skall: Extie, that’s still a form of apocalypse
[2011/06/21 16:09]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): “It’s the end of the world as we know it…and I fell fine.”
[2011/06/21 16:10]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): *feel
[2011/06/21 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Violet.
[2011/06/21 16:10]  Shorahmin Femto: yes, the lucky ones get left behind
[2011/06/21 16:10]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Violet, that’s the classic concept, John again.
[2011/06/21 16:10]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Left alone*
[2011/06/21 16:10]  Kimiko Yiyuan: evbery culture has its own “story” how all things began, how all things came into existence.
[2011/06/21 16:10]  Extropia DaSilva: So we know the end is possible, and on a long enough timeframe inevitable. But why do some anticipate it, even look forward to it? It makes no sense, unless after the end there is a new beginning, which is better.
[2011/06/21 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Lucien…. true…. unelss it’s turned into politics.
[2011/06/21 16:10]  Kimiko Yiyuan: every
[2011/06/21 16:10]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): The world ends, but there is a perfect one in it’s place.
[2011/06/21 16:10]  Lem Skall: Soylent Green
[2011/06/21 16:10]  Adur Gaelyth: no, the unlucky ones are left behind
[2011/06/21 16:10]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): It’s the end of World. 1.0 the beta
[2011/06/21 16:10]  Shorahmin Femto: not in my book
[2011/06/21 16:11]  Zobeid Zuma: I think the world “ended” at least twenty times in Futurama.
[2011/06/21 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: well spotted, lem. Did you know the book the film is based on does not mention people being what Soylent green is made of?
[2011/06/21 16:11]  Shorahmin Femto: I was planning looting when the most recent one happened. No such luck
[2011/06/21 16:11]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): a clear cut end would be fine. I do fear some half-end of the world
[2011/06/21 16:11]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Was it Mayans who had, like, “drafts” of the world in their mythology?
[2011/06/21 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: everybody who believes in an apocalypse believes that they are the ones surviving 🙂 So getting rid of those pesky,. unbelieving neighbours is a very compelling reason for wishing the apocalypse to come *quickly*
[2011/06/21 16:11]  Lucien Velinov: Extropia: Christians and some others see it as validation of their beliefs.
[2011/06/21 16:11]  Lem Skall: I did not know that
[2011/06/21 16:11]  Adur Gaelyth: the whole point of the Apocalypse is that this world is Hell… it’s the Matrix… so Apocalypse means liberation
[2011/06/21 16:11]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Make Room is scarier.
[2011/06/21 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Violet: just like the Matrix then? Hmm
[2011/06/21 16:12]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): No, more like the world was “revised” a little more with each “draft”
[2011/06/21 16:12]  Amandeep Timeless: the tumor babies as our chemical waste accumulate is a not so slowly emerging apocalypse…..we don’t have to wait for it, it’s already here, and the ‘parts per million’ are all going up….no opinios, measurable increases this very era
[2011/06/21 16:12]  Lem Skall: could dying of boredom be a form of apocalypse?
[2011/06/21 16:12]  Simargl Talaj: okay so…8) Optimism. The idea of the apocalypse appeals to people who tend to believe everything is gonna be okay.
[2011/06/21 16:12]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Roger Waters thought so
[2011/06/21 16:13]  Shorahmin Femto: OK for them that is
[2011/06/21 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, ok for them.
[2011/06/21 16:13]  Lem Skall: what is better: apocalypse or eventual stagnation?
[2011/06/21 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: Roger Waters? Pink Floyd Basist?
[2011/06/21 16:13]  Lucien Velinov: Alrighty, I’m outtie for now.
[2011/06/21 16:13]  Zobeid Zuma: We’re a long way from stagnation.
[2011/06/21 16:13]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Yeah; Amused to Death 🙂
[2011/06/21 16:13]  Simargl Talaj: okay for them and, overall, a universal improvement. Rectification of the flaws of creation.
[2011/06/21 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that long-term stagnation will lead to a ‘civilizational apocalypse’ anyway
[2011/06/21 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: ‘Goodbye cruel world/ I’m leaving you today’? Him?
[2011/06/21 16:13]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Take care, Lucien
[2011/06/21 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bye, Lucien!
[2011/06/21 16:14]  Simargl Talaj: hmm Extopia….shall I say..9) Suicidal drives?
[2011/06/21 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: OOoh
[2011/06/21 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm 🙂
[2011/06/21 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good one! Mass suicide!
[2011/06/21 16:14]  Simargl Talaj: Suicide for those who fear to “end it all” themselves
[2011/06/21 16:14]  Amandeep Timeless: there are lingering effects from previous cycles
[2011/06/21 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.
[2011/06/21 16:14]  Simargl Talaj: so are attracted to the vision of a god who will do it.
[2011/06/21 16:14]  Extropia DaSilva: He did an album called Radio Kaos which features a fake 4 minute warning. SO there you go.
[2011/06/21 16:14]  Lem Skall: mass stroke like for the guy who predicted the recent apocalypse
[2011/06/21 16:14]  Shorahmin Femto: I see the various apocalypses as a cleansing away of the nutters so the rest of us can get on with kingdom building
[2011/06/21 16:14]  Zobeid Zuma: I had that LP!
[2011/06/21 16:15]  Zobeid Zuma: Then it was eaten by termites. 😦
[2011/06/21 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Shorah 🙂 Good one!
[2011/06/21 16:15]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Oh, yeah, the world *almost* ended on that one :p
[2011/06/21 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: It is quite good, eh, Zo?
[2011/06/21 16:15]  Zobeid Zuma: I didn’t care much for it.
[2011/06/21 16:15]  Simargl Talaj: I would indeed be quite pleased if the sorts of people who expect to be lifted of the earth would in fact JUST LEAVE.
[2011/06/21 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need more of those apocalypses, though.
[2011/06/21 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: It is a bit rubbish, eh, Zo?
[2011/06/21 16:15]  Zobeid Zuma: But I rarely like music with any kind of political message.
[2011/06/21 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Simargl 🙂
[2011/06/21 16:15]  Amandeep Timeless: a self-help depletion of the excess population…as it were
[2011/06/21 16:15]  Simargl Talaj: SO, any other themes of explanation I’ve missed?
[2011/06/21 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm it might be even evolutionary sound….
[2011/06/21 16:15]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, for John, God is bringing it about; we hae free will, but it corresponds with what He wants; in modern apocalypses, there is an element of warning
[2011/06/21 16:15]  Adur Gaelyth: that’s exactly the idea Simargi
[2011/06/21 16:16]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): “If this continues, then we’re all screwed.”
[2011/06/21 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Simargl: Amandeep is proposing the evolutionary purge as a drive 🙂
[2011/06/21 16:16]  Adur Gaelyth: the awakened will leave
[2011/06/21 16:16]  Simargl Talaj: Does everyone feel that their own input fell into one of these themes? Have I omitted anyone?
[2011/06/21 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think you were thorough hehe
[2011/06/21 16:16]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Sim, not sure what themes you’re referring to?
[2011/06/21 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi, he grouped all proposals in 8 themes.
[2011/06/21 16:16]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Could you–briefly–say them again?
[2011/06/21 16:16]  Amandeep Timeless: i just pihtyfied Shorahmin’s comment
[2011/06/21 16:16]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Oh, I missed that one completely
[2011/06/21 16:17]  Adur Gaelyth: the aslyes please Simargi say them again
[2011/06/21 16:17]  Simargl Talaj: categories of explanation for why people believe in implausible supernatural apocalypses.:
[2011/06/21 16:18]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): please add plausible natural apocalypses
[2011/06/21 16:18]  Extropia DaSilva: I thought we did?
[2011/06/21 16:18]  Simargl Talaj: 1) Deliberate manipulation by religious authorities; 2) Inevitable outcome of religion with angry punishing gods; 3) human need to feel part of a very important group, the “saved”, which can only exist in contrast to a vast Unsaved.
[2011/06/21 16:18]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, Ii think the “plausible natural ones” really derive from the supernatuarl ones
[2011/06/21 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: To be honest, I personally find it incredible sad that the “Chosen”, the “Awakened”, the “Pure” are always the first to leave, leaving the rest behind and even scorning them; what kind of compassion is that? If I were part of the group selected to leave, I’d certainly refuse and remain with the poor troubled ones who would be “condemned” to remain around. Somehow, that apocalyptic message completely fails to address my personal moral sense…
[2011/06/21 16:19]  Amandeep Timeless: toxic waste, nuclear war, water depletions, food shortages, epidemics, …..
[2011/06/21 16:19]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): If you substitue ideological for religious, I think so far it fits
[2011/06/21 16:19]  Simargl Talaj: 4) A sense of allt hings being cyclical.
[2011/06/21 16:19]  Adur Gaelyth: I totally agree with you Gwyneth
[2011/06/21 16:20]  Shorahmin Femto: I’m counting on it Gwyn
[2011/06/21 16:20]  Khannea Suntzu: Anyone know Jamais Cascio?
[2011/06/21 16:20]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): we need a fresh new moralic apocalyps
[2011/06/21 16:20]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Yeah, the good among those left behind worked hard to sae the rest
[2011/06/21 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: I know him. I know of him, I mean.
[2011/06/21 16:20]  Amandeep Timeless: failure to comply with God’s wishes (as expressed by the local religion) voids your Ticket to Paradise
[2011/06/21 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, well, that’s one reason why I had to discard Christian beliefs 🙂 I shocked people saying that if tehre was a Hell, i would certainly would wish to go there and bring comfort to the ones suffering; who cares about the jet set sipping ambrosia and sitting on clouds…
[2011/06/21 16:20]  Khannea Suntzu: He just let me know he was not pleased >> http://www.agoravox.fr/tribune-libre/article/armes-climatiques-la-terre-en-95009
[2011/06/21 16:20]  Adur Gaelyth: by the way that’s the Buddhist idea of the Boddhisatva
[2011/06/21 16:21]  Simargl Talaj: 5) anxiety at the weaknesses of societies; 6) 6) moral sense, a belief in the necessity of a great judgement against great evil.
[2011/06/21 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: Do you do refunds, Khannea?
[2011/06/21 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Adur: precisely; one of my vows 😉
[2011/06/21 16:21]  Khannea Suntzu: *lol*
[2011/06/21 16:21]  Simargl Talaj: 7) general feelings that things are in trouble because of quite plausible material threats to the world
[2011/06/21 16:21]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, like the apocrhyphal scriptures wehich has Jesus witnessed to the damned for the 3 daysihe was in hell
[2011/06/21 16:21]  Khannea Suntzu: Uhm
[2011/06/21 16:21]  Shorahmin Femto: I believe that God’s plan for humanity includes trillions of us splashed across time and space. The sooner the slackers, those who want things to end prematurely, leave, the better.
[2011/06/21 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Rhi.
[2011/06/21 16:21]  Khannea Suntzu: That photoshop of Jamais as him, that was mine
[2011/06/21 16:21]  Khannea Suntzu: Dr Evil
[2011/06/21 16:21]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I liked that a lot better than Dante’s idea that the good who came before Jesus were in hell, if the plush suburbs of it–the 1st circle.
[2011/06/21 16:22]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): What are the othe 4 categories, Sim?
[2011/06/21 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe “plush suburbs” 🙂
[2011/06/21 16:22]  Simargl Talaj: 8)Optimism. The idea of the apocalypse appeals to people who tend to believe everything is gonna be okay.
[2011/06/21 16:22]  Kimiko Yiyuan: At least it was a bearable one Rhi.
[2011/06/21 16:22]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I’d add “A need for finitude (stuff has to stop somewhere!)” and “They make fun stories,” Simargl
[2011/06/21 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: Ok I would fit into category 8
[2011/06/21 16:22]  Shorahmin Femto: you left out monetary gain Sim
[2011/06/21 16:22]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I suspect the latter is why they’ve stuck around for so long, in so many cultures
[2011/06/21 16:23]  Simargl Talaj: sorry I try to go back and copy and paste them but there is quite a lot of chat history and it jumps everytime I paste something.
[2011/06/21 16:23]  Zobeid Zuma: Did anyone else see Zombieland?
[2011/06/21 16:23]  Amandeep Timeless: the idea that the suffering they are experiencing will eventually cease
[2011/06/21 16:23]  Ivy Sunkiller: why did I read that Zobeidland?
[2011/06/21 16:23]  Zobeid Zuma: Gotta love an “end of the world” were the power never goes out.
[2011/06/21 16:23]  Simargl Talaj: hmmm I assumed monetary gain was part of the leadership one.
[2011/06/21 16:23]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): haha
[2011/06/21 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, monetary gain … mmmh. I guess this was under 1
[2011/06/21 16:23]  Kimiko Yiyuan: I have lost track a bit.
[2011/06/21 16:23]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): whispers: Well, except for there being no God; it’s much better for Jesus to come ddown and say, “Hey, the bus is leaving; anyone want a ride?
[2011/06/21 16:24]  Extropia DaSilva: I saw a film called Zombie Nosh. It was rubbish. I mean really rubbish.
[2011/06/21 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2011/06/21 16:24]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Sim, I think that fits all possible scenarios; and again, they are all in Revelation; John’s discussion of the 7 churches takes care of most of them; maybe all of them.
[2011/06/21 16:24]  Shorahmin Femto: I really think it is the dominant driving force. Charlatin pastors raking in the bucks because their flocks won’t need it sice we’re all moving on.
[2011/06/21 16:24]  Adur Gaelyth: Simargi, I would add 9) Drugs: many people who take drugd like LSD have visions of the Apocalypse… movies like Matrix are obviously inspired in drugs
[2011/06/21 16:24]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I get Zombieland mixed up with Fido for some reason
[2011/06/21 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shorah: definitely in this age 🙂
[2011/06/21 16:25]  Amandeep Timeless: ergot as well Adur
[2011/06/21 16:25]  Extropia DaSilva: Mescaline, It’s the only way to fly’.
[2011/06/21 16:25]  Adur Gaelyth: yes, Extie ツ
[2011/06/21 16:25]  Zobeid Zuma: Matrix was sort of atypical, it wasn’t an end-of-the-world movie in a normal sense of the genre.
[2011/06/21 16:26]  Simargl Talaj: I remain puzzled as to why there are apocalyptic *enthusiasms* however. Even with all these possible factors leading to belief…why do people *welcome* the idea that nearly all the sentient beings in existence are about to suffer horribly, and maybe eternally? How can there be any religious joy in that? It seems to me the most unholy of thigs.
[2011/06/21 16:26]  Amandeep Timeless: all of these reasons
[2011/06/21 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, religions appealing to one’s ego are very popular .)
[2011/06/21 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes, Zoe, like I said it was closer to an appocapypse in that it is destruction and renewal. The MAtrix, I mean.
[2011/06/21 16:26]  Shorahmin Femto: the point is, “I’m special”, I will not suffer. That makes me feel smug and superior
[2011/06/21 16:27]  Adur Gaelyth: Matrix III was a great disappointment, because at last Neo doesn’t destroy the Matrix… he makes a pact with the fucking machines!
[2011/06/21 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the idea is “we” get something “others” don’t.
[2011/06/21 16:27]  Simargl Talaj: To rejoice in the suffering of vast numbers of human beings…and all the animals…it is …if I believed in Satan I would find it diabolical, depraved beyond comprehension.
[2011/06/21 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like Shorah says.
[2011/06/21 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hear hear Simargl
[2011/06/21 16:27]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Unless self righteousness is a sin
[2011/06/21 16:27]  Khannea Suntzu: BRAWNDO – it ahs electrolytes!
[2011/06/21 16:27]  Khannea Suntzu: BRAWNDO- that’s what plants crave !
[2011/06/21 16:27]  Lem Skall: c’mon, the view of the REAL earth in the Matrix was apocalyptic
[2011/06/21 16:27]  Shorahmin Femto: you named them well, Sim
[2011/06/21 16:28]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): It’s sort of a pained justice–if you see the world as having wronged you, if you see yourself as a victim, then it’s just table’s turning
[2011/06/21 16:28]  Amandeep Timeless: revenge, completions, feeling superior, political control, spiritual instincts, …
[2011/06/21 16:28]  Extropia DaSilva: No no Adur, the arc of the story is that mind, body, and spirit are seperated but become one in the end. THat is what the three matrices represent. Green matrix= mind, blue = body and gold = spirit.
[2011/06/21 16:28]  Kimiko Yiyuan: But what i wanted to say earler, or already began ist that every culture has its stories of how things came into existence, of how things began. in past times it was A God that created everything, or more than one or whetever. Nowadays this “story” is clothed into a coat of science and we call it Big Bang. But every beginning comes to an end at one time. That is aour basic experence with nature. And I think this is athe major reason why themes and stories of apocalypse will never cease. They simply are part of humanity itself.
[2011/06/21 16:28]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Or the table’s tables turning….I guess
[2011/06/21 16:28]  Khannea Suntzu: Amandeep do you also realize that there are a klot of people in deep shit out there? Poor, vulnerable, victimized?
[2011/06/21 16:29]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Ummh, I meant everything that once began comes to an end one time..
[2011/06/21 16:29]  Simargl Talaj: The central event of Christianity is Christ’s decision to suffer the punishments of hell so that great numbers of human beings may escape them. So how can any Christian enjoy their exclusive escape from suffering and the destruction of everyone else? It is the exact opposite of the motives of Christ.
[2011/06/21 16:29]  Extropia DaSilva: ‘everything that has a beginnig, has an end, Neo’.
[2011/06/21 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: See, Satan, if he existed, would not need much work. That reminds me of an old joke. God was finishing up his creation and Satan was very impressed. At some point, he said, “Ooh can I set a rule too?” “No,” said God. “I make the rules here, you have no part in *that*”. Satan answers: “But the only thing I wanted to ask is that humans are allowed to set their own rules…” And this God granted 🙂
[2011/06/21 16:29]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): just saucaces, they got two ends
[2011/06/21 16:29]  Kimiko Yiyuan: See, it is in pop culture too. Extropia.
[2011/06/21 16:29]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And every beginning comes from another beginning’s end. Closing time…
[2011/06/21 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Simargl, indeed.
[2011/06/21 16:29]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Just think of all those apocalyptic movies and books and all the fascination.
[2011/06/21 16:30]  Shorahmin Femto: after living in England, Gahndi said he learned to love Christ and hate Christians.
[2011/06/21 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: Now we wait for Khannea to quote the bit that goes ‘you think you are fighting for something? For more than your survival?…..’
[2011/06/21 16:30]  Amandeep Timeless: absolutely….the reasons for apocalyptic thinking arrive from many sources….
[2011/06/21 16:30]  Adur Gaelyth: Simargi, Christians aren’t supposed to enjoy it… that’s why they try to convert everybody
[2011/06/21 16:30]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And I think we covered most of them
[2011/06/21 16:30]  Khannea Suntzu: No I’ll quote Smith a few times
[2011/06/21 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh good. Well my time is almost up? Any last words or comments?
[2011/06/21 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: That was Smith, sweets
[2011/06/21 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: When you listen to *most* apocalyptic prophets (granted, not all), Adur, that’s not the impression they give.
[2011/06/21 16:31]  Simargl Talaj: Adur, in general yes, but apocalyptic cults in particular seem to *relish* the idea of the apocalypse . It is attractive to them.
[2011/06/21 16:31]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Apocalypse and apocalyptic themes and stories: they are a cultural refelx.
[2011/06/21 16:31]  Kimiko Yiyuan: reflex
[2011/06/21 16:31]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, only this–where the heck are you? I’e been camming around and don’t see you
[2011/06/21 16:31]  Khannea Suntzu: 🙂
[2011/06/21 16:31]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Did i make sense so far?
[2011/06/21 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Simargl. And teh notion that “lots of undeserving infidels will be tortured for eternity” is incredibly appealing and make them rejoice. A ghastly thought.
[2011/06/21 16:31]  Simargl Talaj: People are not embracing apocalyptic messages sadly, and against their preferences. They are choosing to believe because it fulfills a preference.
[2011/06/21 16:31]  Shorahmin Femto: yes Kim, well said
[2011/06/21 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, pretty much so, Kimiko
[2011/06/21 16:32]  Simargl Talaj: This grieves me a great deal.
[2011/06/21 16:32]  Extropia DaSilva: I am sat between Kimiko and Sinargl with Khannea at my feet. I am on an orange setee, the same one I always sit on.
[2011/06/21 16:32]  Adur Gaelyth: the first Matrix movie was great because it focused on the Matrix, which is the world we live it…. the 2nd and 3rd sucked because they focused on the “real world”, which was a bad science-fiction fantasy
[2011/06/21 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree wholeheartedly with you, Simargl.
[2011/06/21 16:32]  Amandeep Timeless: well, now the apocalypse is being driven by movie producers who want to take advantage of the recent improvements in CGI special FX
[2011/06/21 16:32]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): You always make sense, Kim
[2011/06/21 16:32]  Adur Gaelyth: *we live in
[2011/06/21 16:32]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I think a lot of people drawn to apocalyptic thinking are either suffering or finding it hard to make sense of the world; they just want the ride to stop.
[2011/06/21 16:32]  Shorahmin Femto: well, glad I was able to make this one. Thanks Extie and all.
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One Response to THINKERS JUNE 21 2011: APPOCALPYSE DELAYED.

  1. Arch says:

    “Can’t we just all agree to an etymological disagreement?” 🙂
    Arch

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