THINKERS JUNE 14 2011: NEED FOR NATURE

Extropia DaSilva: Welcome to Thinkers!
[2011/06/14 15:34]  Ivy Sunkiller: there is no wrong orientation, there are just xenophobes 🙂
[2011/06/14 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: Today the topic under discussion is….
[2011/06/14 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: NEED FOR NATURE: Patients that have a room with a window overlooking a natural view recover more quickly than those with no view. A high-def plasma screen showing the exact same view offers no physilogical or psychological benefit. What does this mean for those of us whose lives are increasingly lived through the screen?
[2011/06/14 15:34]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): true, Ivy
[2011/06/14 15:34]  Zobeid Zuma: Maybe we need to get out and take a walk once in a while. It’s not gonna hurt ya.
[2011/06/14 15:35]  Khannea Suntzu: Extropia ALERT!
[2011/06/14 15:35]  Ivy Sunkiller: I walk out every day, well, wasn’t last week as I was ill, but normally I do
[2011/06/14 15:35]  Zobeid Zuma: Or else, maybe we just need improved plasma screens. 🙂
[2011/06/14 15:35]  Khannea Suntzu: Extropia ALERT!\
[2011/06/14 15:35]  Khannea Suntzu: Extropia ALERT!
[2011/06/14 15:35]  Ivy Sunkiller: 3d screens! 🙂
[2011/06/14 15:35]  Ivy Sunkiller: they are almost there!
[2011/06/14 15:35]  Ivy Sunkiller: hello Charles
[2011/06/14 15:35]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, there is no substitue for the “real” thing
[2011/06/14 15:35]  Khannea Suntzu: Extropia ALERT!
[2011/06/14 15:36]  Ivy Sunkiller: lies Rhi 🙂
[2011/06/14 15:36]  Extropia DaSilva: Khannea why are you saying that?
[2011/06/14 15:36]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I’ve invited Charles, he’s a math teahcer and expert on Shakespeare
[2011/06/14 15:36]  Khannea Suntzu: I gave you a gift
[2011/06/14 15:36]  Ivy Sunkiller: does he read sci-fi too?
[2011/06/14 15:36]  Ivy Sunkiller: hello Viotari, Scarp
[2011/06/14 15:36]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Scarp!
[2011/06/14 15:37]  Khannea Suntzu: You received it?
[2011/06/14 15:37]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Violet!
[2011/06/14 15:37]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, my doctor prescribed two Vit D tablets aday, said I wasn’t getting enough sun
[2011/06/14 15:37]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): We physically & psychologically need nature
[2011/06/14 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: We do not know if better screens would solve the problem. But if it turns out that no screen, no matter how hi-def or 3D or immersive it is can reproduce the benefits of a real natural view..then what?
[2011/06/14 15:38]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, a screen image can help, when you can’t experience nature
[2011/06/14 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: I received some butter if that is what you mean, sweets.
[2011/06/14 15:38]  Ivy Sunkiller: then we need better bodies 🙂
[2011/06/14 15:38]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): You’re confined to your house, or something
[2011/06/14 15:38]  Khannea Suntzu: Pay attention extropia
[2011/06/14 15:38]  Zobeid Zuma: What, is there something magical about the natural view? It’s infused with orgone energy that you can’t reproduce? 😛
[2011/06/14 15:39]  Khannea Suntzu: whats ‘orgone’ ?
[2011/06/14 15:39]  Xstreet SL Central Authority: Khannea Suntzu has given you a gift of “Floor Candy ” Blue Tender ” gorean camisk ” from XstreetSL.com!  Message from buyer: 🙂
[2011/06/14 15:39]  Ivy Sunkiller: ofcourse Zo, all those conscious rocks and stuff, sending you the energy!
[2011/06/14 15:39]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Orgone, Khannea, is a made up energy by scientoliists
[2011/06/14 15:39]  Khannea Suntzu: Ohh ok
[2011/06/14 15:39]  Extropia DaSilva: I got floor candy, whatever that is. Was that from you?
[2011/06/14 15:39]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): L. Ron Hubbard; it’s blue and is like the Force in Star Wars
[2011/06/14 15:39]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): we Violet
[2011/06/14 15:40]  Zobeid Zuma: It’s the Force! 😀
[2011/06/14 15:40]  Ivy Sunkiller: though we, as our bodies, do need sunlight 🙂
[2011/06/14 15:40]  Theodore Theseus: orgone |ˈôrgōn|
 noun
 (in the theory of Wilhelm Reich) a supposed sexual energy or life force distributed throughout the universe that can be collected and stored (in an orgone box) for therapeutic use.
[2011/06/14 15:40]  Ivy Sunkiller: ohow
[2011/06/14 15:40]  Extropia DaSilva: Zo, maybe some things are just not technologically feasible?
[2011/06/14 15:40]  Ivy Sunkiller: sexual energy
[2011/06/14 15:40]  Ivy Sunkiller: I think I’m going to convert
[2011/06/14 15:40]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Orgone is Reich’s thing, not el Ron’s
[2011/06/14 15:40]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): oh, right, Wilhelm Reich
[2011/06/14 15:40]  Toy (aeni.silvercloud): /me laughs
[2011/06/14 15:40]  Theodore Theseus: it was the dictionary’s thing too
[2011/06/14 15:41]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): When he either turned mad or became the world’s greatestphysicisit, depending on your point of view
[2011/06/14 15:41]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): But still, it’s the life force, permeates the cosmos, and is blue in color
[2011/06/14 15:41]  Extropia DaSilva: the two are mutually exclusive?
[2011/06/14 15:41]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, laughs
[2011/06/14 15:41]  Extropia DaSilva: Hello Gwyn!
[2011/06/14 15:41]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Not in this bunch. lol
[2011/06/14 15:41]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Gwyneth!
[2011/06/14 15:41]  Ivy Sunkiller: hello Gwyn
[2011/06/14 15:42]  Zobeid Zuma: Gwyn, hi!
[2011/06/14 15:42]  Extropia DaSilva: Hey Gwyn anyone ever told you you bare some resemblance to Carol Decker, lead singer of 80s band T’Pau?
[2011/06/14 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sure I said “hi” more than once but chat lag ate my text.
[2011/06/14 15:42]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hey Gwyn 🙂
[2011/06/14 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And no, Extie, not really 🙂
[2011/06/14 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: Anyway for the benefit of arrivals, we are discussing…
[2011/06/14 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: NEED FOR NATURE: Patients that have a room with a window overlooking a natural view recover more quickly than those with no view. A high-def plasma screen showing the exact same view offers no physilogical or psychological benefit. What does this mean for those of us whose lives are increasingly lived through the screen?
[2011/06/14 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have a question about that experiment! Was the window open or closed? 🙂
[2011/06/14 15:43]  Ivy Sunkiller: oh btw
[2011/06/14 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: I do not know.
[2011/06/14 15:43]  Ivy Sunkiller: does *eating* nature works?
[2011/06/14 15:44]  Khannea Suntzu: I have a nice neighbour who maintains a great garden, just dowenstairs through a huge window
[2011/06/14 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I might say that it would be an invalid test if the window were open.
[2011/06/14 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: how so?
[2011/06/14 15:44]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): That’s a good question Gwyn!
[2011/06/14 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because you *know* that similar tests have been made with aquariums in meeting rooms vs. videowalls showing fishes, and the results were pretty much the same in terms of relaxation etc
[2011/06/14 15:45]  Ivy Sunkiller: indeed, plasma screen will not give you fresh air 🙂
[2011/06/14 15:45]  Zobeid Zuma: I want to point out something. . . . The study you referenced, about patients benefiting from a natural view, could be *wrong*. In fact, it’s statistically likelly to be wrong.
[2011/06/14 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (thus the ubiquitous ‘fish tank’ screensavers)
[2011/06/14 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /nod @ Zo
[2011/06/14 15:45]  Zobeid Zuma: /me points –> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/
[2011/06/14 15:46]  Ivy Sunkiller: yay thread over we can talk about facebook
[2011/06/14 15:46]  Theodore Theseus: There are other studies that talked about the fact that caring for a plant by the patient helped recovery also. Having the plant in the room did not help as much as when the patient cared for the plant, watering it etc.
[2011/06/14 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Ivy — not me, I’m excluded from talking about Facebook hehe
[2011/06/14 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: why?
[2011/06/14 15:46]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): We need to care for plants and animals too
[2011/06/14 15:46]  Ivy Sunkiller: well I’m excluded from facebook 🙂
[2011/06/14 15:46]  Ivy Sunkiller: yes! we have to care for plants, they have minds too!
[2011/06/14 15:46]  Scarp Godenot: I have a possible reason. Maybe the hospital staff likes to come into those rooms more frequently, resulting in better care.
[2011/06/14 15:47]  Theodore Theseus: with animals they are using robot pets and getting results
[2011/06/14 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (that’s a fantastic paper, Zobeid 🙂 Love it!!)
[2011/06/14 15:47]  Theodore Theseus: this was talked about during Robot Week. Robots with AI
[2011/06/14 15:48]  Zobeid Zuma: But anyhow, this topic does sort of dovetail with a concern of mine. . . sitting at the computer too much.
[2011/06/14 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: Can we assume such possibilities were ruled out? Unless someone can prove otherwise, I say we should stick with what the author said.
[2011/06/14 15:48]  Theodore Theseus: @ Scarp, that is speculation
[2011/06/14 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Extie… my personal peeve about that example you gave is that it’s very narrow in scope. What was tested exactly?
[2011/06/14 15:48]  Zobeid Zuma: I’ve had some bouts of back pain which I blamed on long sessions sitting at the computer desk.
[2011/06/14 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: How was it tested?
[2011/06/14 15:48]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zoe, I think we all know the symptoms of staying by the computer too much, we just choose to ignore them
[2011/06/14 15:48]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Right, like back pain
[2011/06/14 15:48]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): carpel tunnel
[2011/06/14 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It sounds more like “a statement a journalist wrote about a research paper” than an abstract .
[2011/06/14 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: I admit I do not know. I read an article in Newscientist, not the actual scientific study itself.
[2011/06/14 15:49]  Ivy Sunkiller: carpel tunnel is not a problem, you just need a mousepad with gel support for wrist 🙂
[2011/06/14 15:49]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, anecdotal eveidence works, Extie
[2011/06/14 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, at least that’s a semi-reputable source, which is good news…. 🙂 Did they at least provide a DOI to the article? 😉
[2011/06/14 15:49]  Zobeid Zuma: I’ve scheduled time (with iCal, I don’t know how I’d live without it anymore) to do things outdoors at least three mornings each week, plus I have my little garden plot.
[2011/06/14 15:49]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): iCAl?
[2011/06/14 15:50]  Scarp Godenot: One of the main long term problems of sitting too much is circulatory diseases such as atherosclerosis are worsened. I heard that somewhere… heh
[2011/06/14 15:50]  Zobeid Zuma: The calendar program for Mac OS X.
[2011/06/14 15:50]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): ok, is there a windows version? I’m sure there is.
[2011/06/14 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
[2011/06/14 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: welcome to the cliub … more people for beta-testing something I hope to release next week hehe
[2011/06/14 15:50]  Ivy Sunkiller: there is google calendar, works on every OS
[2011/06/14 15:50]  Ivy Sunkiller: :p
[2011/06/14 15:50]  Khannea Suntzu: I have a fabulpuis way to deal with my detachment. I walk all summers barefeet, everywhere.
[2011/06/14 15:50]  Zobeid Zuma: Yeah, now they’re starting to say that sitting for long periods is as bad for your health as smoking.
[2011/06/14 15:50]  Khannea Suntzu: Works fairly well.
[2011/06/14 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo, really? Hm! What about those who sit a lot AND smoke? 😉
[2011/06/14 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me points at herself
[2011/06/14 15:51]  Ivy Sunkiller: hello Shorahmin
[2011/06/14 15:51]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, I walk barefoot all the way up in summers, wherever I can. ::winks::
[2011/06/14 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: Whether correct or not is this study flawed in the sense that it thinks of screens as something people sit indoors to use? I mean, these days you see people out and about using their phones which are fast becoming the main way to do computing.
[2011/06/14 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Rhi 🙂
[2011/06/14 15:51]  Ivy Sunkiller: awwww Gwyn, you get -10 points for smoking 🙂
[2011/06/14 15:51]  Scarp Godenot: You are totally screwed Gwyn! heh
[2011/06/14 15:51]  Shorahmin Femto: hi all
[2011/06/14 15:51]  Zobeid Zuma: But, I am getting a sit-or-stand desk too! It has electric motors so it can raise or lower in seconds, whenever I feel a need to change position.
[2011/06/14 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Scarp: thank you 🙂
[2011/06/14 15:51]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, it is different using a phone outdoors
[2011/06/14 15:51]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Shoarhmin!
[2011/06/14 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: how does it differ?
[2011/06/14 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Phones produce cancer too. The first published research is finally out 🙂
[2011/06/14 15:52]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, you’re outside for one thing
[2011/06/14 15:52]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyneth, everything produces cancer.
[2011/06/14 15:52]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I deal with the sitting problem the old fashioned way, by being hyperactive 🙂
[2011/06/14 15:52]  Theodore Theseus: what about plants near your computer? http://ellisonchair.tamu.edu/emphasis-areas/marketing-economics/health-and-well-being-benefits-of-plants/
[2011/06/14 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What’s so good about “out”? The amount of pollution is pretty much the same and you get more UV radiation.
[2011/06/14 15:52]  Ivy Sunkiller: USB plant! Problem solved 😀
[2011/06/14 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: exactly!
[2011/06/14 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Does watching my cat jumping around help? lol
[2011/06/14 15:53]  Zobeid Zuma: The main benefit of going outside is that you’re moving around and being active.
[2011/06/14 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, ok, I can agree with that, Zo. We need 30 minutes of walking around every day.
[2011/06/14 15:53]  Zobeid Zuma: Human beings are made for motion, apparently.
[2011/06/14 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me wants to file a complaint with the Creator!
[2011/06/14 15:54]  Scarp Godenot: Does anyone here sit on an exercise ball while at the computer? I have a friend who swears by this.
[2011/06/14 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have an ergonomic Swedish-designed chair! 🙂
[2011/06/14 15:54]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And you feel the sun on you, the negative ions on the trees; get the energies from nature
[2011/06/14 15:54]  Zobeid Zuma: I actually have a “Swopper” stool, which is sort of similar to a ball. You have to balance on it.
[2011/06/14 15:55]  Theodore Theseus: nterestingly, the results showed that the students who worked in the rooms with the plants reported feeling significantly more attentive during and after the task.
[2011/06/14 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: SUn = UV = skin cancer.
[2011/06/14 15:55]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): My karate instructor, who is ex-special forces, hugs trees–literally
[2011/06/14 15:55]  Scarp Godenot: Are the Swedes more ergonomic than most?
[2011/06/14 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Probably! Or they have better marketing anyway!
[2011/06/14 15:55]  Zobeid Zuma: But I don’t use the swopper at my computer. I have a rather simple wooden chair at my computer.
[2011/06/14 15:55]  Ivy Sunkiller: Rhi: kind of explains why he is no longer special forces
[2011/06/14 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Remember the “Swedish exercises”? hehe
[2011/06/14 15:55]  Ivy Sunkiller: he was just too special
[2011/06/14 15:55]  Extropia DaSilva: Look, pretty soon we will control our computers by jumping around and waving our hands about like Tom Cruise in Minority Report.
[2011/06/14 15:55]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyneth, it’s a well know fact that wearing clothes causes cancer; they’ve put rats in leisure suits and they came down with cancer
[2011/06/14 15:55]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): So I feel safe.
[2011/06/14 15:56]  Khannea Suntzu: *relief*
[2011/06/14 15:56]  Theodore Theseus: A study at the University of Kansas indicated that patients received both physical and emotional benefits from interior plants. Patients were measured in terms of the length of their stay, anxiety, vital signs and pain intensity. Those who stayed in the rooms with the plants took much less pain medication, had better vital signs, were less anxious and expressed more satisfaction with their rooms. These patients were also discharged sooner than the patients without plants. Could this be the reason that we instinctively bring plants or flowers to hospital patients when we visit?
[2011/06/14 15:56]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Exxtie, but we’ll have to do it in our underwear, and while tgending bar
[2011/06/14 15:56]  Ivy Sunkiller: it has been proved that being alive causes cancer
[2011/06/14 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Theodore,. that reminds me of the old research by the end of the 19th century. They wanted to see if factory workers would increase productivity with electric lights turned on. So they told the factory workers that they would conduct some tests, and measured productivity when the lights were turned on.
[2011/06/14 15:57]  Scarp Godenot: I guess I had better plant some plants around my worstation area! haha
[2011/06/14 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Productivity, as predicted, rose.
[2011/06/14 15:57]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Actually, it’s old age, Ivy; there is a direct correlation between the number of old people and the instances of cancer; if we live long enough, we’ll probably come down with cancer
[2011/06/14 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then they turned them off.
[2011/06/14 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Productivity rose again!
[2011/06/14 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What was the flaw? 🙂
[2011/06/14 15:57]  Khannea Suntzu: Coul;d it be that pur society has become so frigging overloaded complex that we are all dulled to basic common sense, and simple truths and blatant obvious? Might society we are in be in a critical state of WTF? May we be unable to correctly estimate sensible from fucked up? May we all be, by and large, lost?
[2011/06/14 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a classical example of bad science btw
[2011/06/14 15:57]  Khannea Suntzu: Or is it just me?
[2011/06/14 15:57]  Extropia DaSilva: how so, Gwyn?
[2011/06/14 15:57]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, but then they did studies that showed that painting the facgtory blue increased productivity, but then they painted it back to have a control, and productivity increased.
[2011/06/14 15:58]  Ivy Sunkiller: Rhi: not really, old age just causes the mechanism that kill cancer cells to break, we all have cancer cells in our bodies *right now*
[2011/06/14 15:58]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): They concluded that paying attention to people increases prroductivity
[2011/06/14 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /nod @ Rhi
[2011/06/14 15:58]  Zobeid Zuma: I don’t feel that messed-up, Khannea. Although I suspect the people in charge may be. 😛
[2011/06/14 15:58]  Scarp Godenot: The main reason Old people get more cancer is that their immune systems aren’t as healthy. Apparently we are fighting off cancerous cells all the time.
[2011/06/14 15:58]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): You can pay attention to people through a computer screen
[2011/06/14 15:58]  Khannea Suntzu: Zobi maybe they are more subjected to this ahmmmm….. ‘toxic complexity overload’ ?
[2011/06/14 15:59]  Zobeid Zuma: Rhi, that reminds me of the study I heard about with the lights in the factory. They brought in extra lighting and productivity increased. . . .
[2011/06/14 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: They did the same test in a mine. Measured productivity with the lights turned on. Then, measured productivity with the lights switched off. It went to zero! Scientists still cannot explain why…..
[2011/06/14 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: that classical example of the electric lights showed that it’s really, really hard to design a good test. In that particular exampole, the issue was that they told the factory workers that they would measure their productivity; just by telling that, they0ve biased the results — the factory workers worked harder because of knowing they were being tested.
[2011/06/14 15:59]  Zobeid Zuma: They brought in more lights, and productivity increased. . . .
[2011/06/14 15:59]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, lmao
[2011/06/14 15:59]  Zobeid Zuma: Then, just to make sure, they took all the extra lights out. And productivity increased. . . .
[2011/06/14 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure they can explain.
[2011/06/14 15:59]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): lol Extie
[2011/06/14 15:59]  Scarp Godenot: Isn’t productivity the reason that everything was painted ‘Institutional green’ in the post world war two era?
[2011/06/14 15:59]  Theodore Theseus: Well there is more research, it all cannot be placebo
[2011/06/14 15:59]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi Erin
[2011/06/14 15:59]  Zobeid Zuma: The workers were just working harder because they knew they were being watched, and they liked all the attention from the researchers. 😛
[2011/06/14 15:59]  Theodore Theseus: Following studies were inspired by well-known research in which hospital patients who viewed plants from their windows recovered more quickly and used fewer pain reliving drugs than patients who viewed a building (Urlich, 1984; for more about the impact of a window view see Attention Restoration and Views of Nature). Lohr and Pearson-Mims (2000) purposed that indoor plants could have the similar pain relieving effect like window views of nature.
[2011/06/14 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: you scared him off Rhi!
[2011/06/14 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The explanation is simple: you cannot tell your sample group that you’re being tested. You can’t even tell the people who are measuring the results what they’re measuring.
[2011/06/14 16:00]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Theodore, not placebo, but maybe it’s a tertium quid–love and attention
[2011/06/14 16:00]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, he must be a prude; I get that alot. lol
[2011/06/14 16:00]  Khannea Suntzu: I’d like everyone to look at this >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dbh5l0b2-0o
[2011/06/14 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: exactly!
[2011/06/14 16:00]  Scarp Godenot: I think I’m going to move my workstation to my garden for my health now.
[2011/06/14 16:00]  Theodore Theseus: Gwyneth, what reseach have you read about this
[2011/06/14 16:00]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Scarp, why I love my laptop; I can go out on my deck and do this.
[2011/06/14 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a classic; I get to study those exampoles as part of my course in scientific methodologies for my PhD…
[2011/06/14 16:01]  Zobeid Zuma: Yeah, I should be working outdoors right now! In the. . . 100 degree heat. . . hmm, maybe not. 😛
[2011/06/14 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: “how NOT to do scientific research”
[2011/06/14 16:01]  Extropia DaSilva: Reminds me Gwyn. They wanted to test of prayer can help heal, so they told some patients they were being prayed for. They got worse. One reason might be, they were told they were being prayed for and they thought ‘my goodness, my illness is worse than I thought!’. Reverse placebo, see.
[2011/06/14 16:01]  Zobeid Zuma: Texas was only semi-inhabitable before A/C.
[2011/06/14 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes. Exactly. That’s also a very typical example, Extie
[2011/06/14 16:01]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zobeid, wear billowly white clothes
[2011/06/14 16:02]  Theodore Theseus: …but have you read any of this research Gwyneth?
[2011/06/14 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yppers 🙂
[2011/06/14 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, it’s also how you pray
[2011/06/14 16:02]  Zobeid Zuma: Actually I’ve heard billowing *black* clothes are the coolest. They generate more air circulation!
[2011/06/14 16:02]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): “I want my daughter not TO DIE…TO DIE…TO DIE” Sends the wrong message to higher intelligence lol
[2011/06/14 16:02]  Zobeid Zuma: I’ve never tested that, so take it with a grain of salt.
[2011/06/14 16:03]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Zoe, the billowing part is the air circulation
[2011/06/14 16:03]  Theodore Theseus: Ty, everyone
[2011/06/14 16:03]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): ur welcome, Theodore
[2011/06/14 16:03]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): U leaving us?
[2011/06/14 16:04]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I guess so, I know longer see him
[2011/06/14 16:04]  Zobeid Zuma: /me points –> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v283/n5745/abs/283373a0.html
[2011/06/14 16:04]  Zobeid Zuma: As always, the answer is out there somewhere on teh interwebs.
[2011/06/14 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: MMh. Anyone that likes to push scientific research as argumentation and is afraid of dealing with skeptic inquiry about scientific research does not rank high on my list…
[2011/06/14 16:05]  Extropia DaSilva: The web is like Dr Know. There is nothing he doesn’t.
[2011/06/14 16:05]  Ivy Sunkiller: the internet, it has answers to everything 🙂
[2011/06/14 16:05]  Khannea Suntzu: I think there are cycles of growth in all societies and humans have these genetic adaption algorithms. These cycles have been fairly constant through human history – populatioon growth and peace — consolidfation and stagnation and distrust – famine, war and refugees. We are clearly in stage 2, and our genes anticipate stage 3. We are on the lookout for what always has come next in our biological history. We all overbreed, our leaders become assholes, our easy fixes stop working, we start blaming furrinerts and turrists, and we start preparing cellars with potatoes. We are a dumbass species.
[2011/06/14 16:05]  Zobeid Zuma: It’s the repository of all knowledge. . . and also, unfortunately, all BS too.
[2011/06/14 16:05]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): That’s neat, Zo 🙂
[2011/06/14 16:06]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, gosh, I gues we just have to use our minds to sort out the knowledge from the bS. Good thing we all have them. lol
[2011/06/14 16:07]  Ivy Sunkiller: we might all have them, but for them to work properly I’d argue
[2011/06/14 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: But we do not sort out the knowledge from the BS. We accept what fits comfortably with our prejudices, and reject what does not conform to our preconceptions, pretty much.
[2011/06/14 16:08]  Khannea Suntzu: How can we with just 135-0 grams of brain Trophy? Oh yah we can, as long as there is open communication.
[2011/06/14 16:08]  Khannea Suntzu: When is there?
[2011/06/14 16:08]  Khannea Suntzu: Times of prosperity and peace.
[2011/06/14 16:08]  Khannea Suntzu: WEhen do people lie?
[2011/06/14 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie, you’re very wise; that’0s exactly it.
[2011/06/14 16:08]  Khannea Suntzu: Times of consolidation and strife
[2011/06/14 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Khannea: when their mouths are moving? 🙂
[2011/06/14 16:09]  Khannea Suntzu: Yah well you go back to facebook
[2011/06/14 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can’t 🙂
[2011/06/14 16:10]  Scarp Godenot: I think maybe we should put our computers by a window looking out is the message…. too bad I don’t have windows in my building..
[2011/06/14 16:10]  Khannea Suntzu: Why do people do that sort of thing Gwyn?
[2011/06/14 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: At least this proves Zo wrong: Turns out Windows is actually really beneficial;)
[2011/06/14 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Extie 🙂
[2011/06/14 16:11]  Zobeid Zuma: /me groans. 😛
[2011/06/14 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Khannea: because it gives them a fake sense of happiness which doesn’t last long 😉
[2011/06/14 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zo: goan with the voice of a LION 😉 😉
[2011/06/14 16:12]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Extie, well that’s a perversion, but of the test for truth; we make a statement true if and only if it coheres with all other true statemkents.
[2011/06/14 16:12]  Ivy Sunkiller: If I point my webcam to a window, will my computer work better?
[2011/06/14 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haah Ivy!
[2011/06/14 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: excellent suggestion!
[2011/06/14 16:12]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Ivy, it might, my computer works better if I’m in a good mood; works worse when I’m in a bad mood; knew this one guy who could crash a computer by walking near it.
[2011/06/14 16:13]  Khannea Suntzu: No Ivy, BUT if you aim your webcam to a picture of Vin Cerf your clock speed will provably increase 2-4%., It is uncanny.
[2011/06/14 16:13]  Scarp Godenot: Have people here seen this TED talk on being wrong? http://www.ted.com/talks/kathryn_schulz_on_being_wrong.html It is seriously worth a look.
[2011/06/14 16:13]  Ivy Sunkiller: haha K
[2011/06/14 16:13]  Ivy Sunkiller: Scarp: seen 🙂
[2011/06/14 16:13]  Khannea Suntzu: Yah I started spreading that first 🙂
[2011/06/14 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rhi: yes, that says a lot about people who are constantly crashing their computers… 😉
[2011/06/14 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, I think we lost our thread 🙂
[2011/06/14 16:15]  Khannea Suntzu: Yes. They aim their webcams at their penis. Figures.
[2011/06/14 16:15]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, doesn’t it?
[2011/06/14 16:15]  Scarp Godenot: To sum up: MORE GREEN, LESS SCREEN
[2011/06/14 16:15]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): This is real; can’t get all of you in resolution; first in was Julie who was like a cartoon, now, it’s Zoe
[2011/06/14 16:15]  Khannea Suntzu: Scarp stop obsessing over money.
[2011/06/14 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh I am putting that into the poem.
[2011/06/14 16:15]  Scarp Godenot: HA HA
[2011/06/14 16:16]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): haha
[2011/06/14 16:17]  Zobeid Zuma: Try changing groupes?
[2011/06/14 16:17]  Extropia DaSilva: Soooo…anyone got anything else on-topic to say or should I close the discussion?
[2011/06/14 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, there ARE some interesting consequences.
[2011/06/14 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, in the way the brain works
[2011/06/14 16:18]  Zobeid Zuma: /me is being hassled by a feline. . .
[2011/06/14 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Assuming that the research in this case was done correctly,
[2011/06/14 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: it seems to indicate that our brain aribitarrily tags things as “real” or “unreal”
[2011/06/14 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and of course, depending on those tags, it sort of makes us feel better or worse.
[2011/06/14 16:18]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Gwyn, no, it’s not arbitray; it’s whether the beliefs are consistent with whatever else we believe
[2011/06/14 16:19]  Scarp Godenot: Maybe percieving ourselves as ‘part of nature’ is somehow reassuring and calming.
[2011/06/14 16:19]  Ivy Sunkiller: nature, cold, dirty, disgusting
[2011/06/14 16:20]  Ivy Sunkiller: no thanks!
[2011/06/14 16:20]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I like nature. Except for centipedes.
[2011/06/14 16:20]  Khannea Suntzu: They taste quite good actually
[2011/06/14 16:21]  Khannea Suntzu: Homeopathic cures have always been religiously touted
 and frantc new solutions have always virally sprouted
 Its a frantic struggle to optimize our functional state
 but nobody wonders why they are always so friggin late
 We don’t have much time before we give this pipe to mozes
 Maybe it makes more sense to take a break and smell the rozes
 Because there is not much of a view to enjoy when the casket closes
[2011/06/14 16:21]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I’m pretty sure they’re infernal, though, not natural.
[2011/06/14 16:21]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Centipedes taste good with ketchep
[2011/06/14 16:21]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): But then only liver doesn’t
[2011/06/14 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: Can I end the discussion? Any more comments forthcoming?
[2011/06/14 16:22]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Anxious to get back into nature, Extie?
[2011/06/14 16:22]  Khannea Suntzu: Yah the nature of some serendip;itous bush I bet
[2011/06/14 16:22]  Khannea Suntzu: slut
[2011/06/14 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: I cannot think of anything else to say, so if you lot cannot either, I am going to close the discussion.
[2011/06/14 16:23]  Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, just be that way, Extie. lol
[2011/06/14 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Extie — you rule 🙂
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