Thinkers May 17 2011: DEATH OF OSAMA

Extropia DaSilva: Welcome to Thinkers!
[2011/05/17 15:33]  Lem Skall: did I crash?
[2011/05/17 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: As you are no doubt aware, Osama Bin Laden has been killed (we shall ignore the conspiracy theory that says he is alive and well and lodging with Elvis). But….
 What does the death of Osama Bin Laden mean for the war on terror?
[2011/05/17 15:33]  Lem Skall: oh, I wish we discussed whether it was legal
[2011/05/17 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: for a start, has it brought it any closer to its end?
[2011/05/17 15:34]  Lem Skall: no, there will be no end
[2011/05/17 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: Well, would you all prefer to discuss Lem’s question? The legality of the war?
[2011/05/17 15:34]  Zobeid Zuma: I think this is the beginning of the end. It’s winding down.
[2011/05/17 15:34]  Ivy Sunkiller: the end will be when people realizes there is no “terror” to fight against 🙂
[2011/05/17 15:34]  Tikor: I agree that it seems more like a shift than an stop to me.
[2011/05/17 15:34]  Lem Skall: not the legality of the war but of killing him
[2011/05/17 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: Well we can discuss that, Lem. Why not?
[2011/05/17 15:35]  Lem Skall: ok, my answer is “who cares?”
[2011/05/17 15:35]  Tikor: about legality, or the end of terrorism?
[2011/05/17 15:35]  Lem Skall: about the legality
[2011/05/17 15:35]  Ivy Sunkiller: I was more scared by the happy people celebrating in front of white house tbh
[2011/05/17 15:35]  Lem Skall: legal or not he had to be killed
[2011/05/17 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: I do not care particularly.
[2011/05/17 15:35]  Tikor: I think the rule of law is important – especially when it comes to the excersize of government power.
[2011/05/17 15:35]  Zobeid Zuma: Legality isn’t a serious question. As far as I’m aware, all the legal experts have said it’s not a problem.
[2011/05/17 15:36]  Lem Skall: the problem is though that it has created a precedent, I saw that argument btw on the bbc news site
[2011/05/17 15:36]  Kimiko Yiyuan: No, it has not. And it never actually will. Which was the main critics point about the whole terminology in the first place. If you wage war on a tactic, the war will never end because there will always be groups, individuals, Nations or armies that will use that one. Just as Ivy said….
[2011/05/17 15:36]  Ivy Sunkiller: when an organ that creates law does something, then law isn’t the problem
[2011/05/17 15:36]  Ivy Sunkiller: 😀
[2011/05/17 15:37]  Lem Skall: the us white house does not create law
[2011/05/17 15:37]  Zobeid Zuma: This is the beginning of what I predicted nearly ten years ago. I knew then that the whole jihad movement was a sort of socio-rhetorical memetic fashion, or fad, that would run its course and die out.
[2011/05/17 15:37]  Kimiko Yiyuan: I though also see this at least as a crucial point in the whole thing. Not as end to any fighting against terror, terrorism and terrorists but at least to this near madness that the follow up of 9/11 brought.
[2011/05/17 15:37]  Ivy Sunkiller: it was white house that killed osama? ok!
[2011/05/17 15:37]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): law is pretty important because inside of government power, a lack of controll can turn out to backfire against the governal structures
[2011/05/17 15:37]  Forceme Silverspar: The UN are questioning the legality.
[2011/05/17 15:37]  Tikor: Ivy – not all law making bodies are on equal footing. Just as the states of America have a limited deference to the federal government, so do nations need to defer to the international community, though on a yet more limited scale.
[2011/05/17 15:38]  Ivy Sunkiller: btw, dont’ be surprised if I mistake osama with obama, not my fault they have so similar names
[2011/05/17 15:38]  Lem Skall: actualy no, it was not the white house, it was seals six, but the order was made by the WH
[2011/05/17 15:38]  Forceme Silverspar: But as USA said, “We will not be shackled by the UN”
[2011/05/17 15:38]  Kimiko Yiyuan: In that the people celebrating in front of the White House, were, to me, while probably strange so at least understandable and hopefully the last echo of the hysteria and emotion of 9/11 itself.
[2011/05/17 15:42]  Confident AO – Preloaded ZHAO II: 5% memory free
[2011/05/17 15:42]  Extropia’s Antenna: Touch me for a control menu
[2011/05/17 15:42]  oh, Ky, let’s not go there, it is an egg and chicken issue then
[2011/05/17 15:42]  Ivy Sunkiller: wb Extie 🙂
[2011/05/17 15:42]  Tikor: Lem, killing Osama need not be part of fighting him – especially leading an organization of matyrs as he did.
[2011/05/17 15:42]  Kythera Lionheart: i didnt start the fight either 😛
[2011/05/17 15:42]  Khannea Suntzu: No. Osama Bin Laden tried fighter YOU the US. I am sorry, but it is obvious the US, and many othr colonial powers brought that little party to the middle east.
[2011/05/17 15:42]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): wb Extie 🙂
[2011/05/17 15:43]  Tikor: Ultimately, that’s how the raid went down, but I think humilation would have been the better punishment, personally.
[2011/05/17 15:43]  Lem Skall: Tikor, how would you have fought him?
[2011/05/17 15:43]  Zobeid Zuma: What I’d love to see in coming years is the long-delayed “peace dividend” that we were supposed to get after the Cold War.
[2011/05/17 15:43]  Khannea Suntzu: You as a nation, as did the british and many other, stick you dick in a hotnets nest.
[2011/05/17 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: Uh thanks. Odd. trued to take a snapshot and I crashed when I tried to save it to hard drive. Oh well.
[2011/05/17 15:43]  Lem Skall: how do you do humiliation and why would that work better?
[2011/05/17 15:43]  Khannea Suntzu: You can Zobeid. Get a representative democracy.
[2011/05/17 15:43]  Adur Gaelyth: I think it was a big mistake to kill him instead of capturing him alive
[2011/05/17 15:43]  Zobeid Zuma: That happened to me a couple days ago, Extie. Must be a bug in the viewer.
[2011/05/17 15:43]  Object: Hi Extropia DaSilva! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[2011/05/17 15:43]  Lem Skall: oh right, we should have tortured him
[2011/05/17 15:43]  Ivy Sunkiller: oh I can teach you a thing or two about humiliation Lem
[2011/05/17 15:43]  Ivy Sunkiller: /me grins
[2011/05/17 15:44]  Adur Gaelyth: and Obama made a huge mistake in his anouncemente
[2011/05/17 15:44]  Adur Gaelyth: *anouncement
[2011/05/17 15:44]  Tikor: No, Lem, I don’t advocate torture
[2011/05/17 15:44]  Kythera Lionheart: capturing people alive isnt always possible
[2011/05/17 15:44]  Adur Gaelyth: he talked of this a s a national issue
[2011/05/17 15:44]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): post cold war timespan, preceding war on terror period, has been rather relaxing
[2011/05/17 15:44]  Kythera Lionheart: sure, it would have been nice
[2011/05/17 15:44]  Khannea Suntzu: We killed him *after* we caught him.
[2011/05/17 15:44]  Adur Gaelyth: all that Aemarican nationalist stuff
[2011/05/17 15:44]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Bin Laden was supposedly unarmed and…..yeah.
[2011/05/17 15:45]  Adur Gaelyth: *American
[2011/05/17 15:45]  Tikor: I think being put in a court of law and held to account for his actions would have been humiliating enough for someone in the lead of a terrorist organiztion.
[2011/05/17 15:45]  Ivy Sunkiller: Adur: well, it’s nothing new that US turns into United Reich 🙂
[2011/05/17 15:45]  Adur Gaelyth: bur Bin Laden was an international issue
[2011/05/17 15:45]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): There was probably no serious attempt to capture him.
[2011/05/17 15:45]  Adur Gaelyth: he also killed people in Britain, Spain, Pakistan… many countries
[2011/05/17 15:45]  Tikor: Sending seals into pakastan is pretty serious.
[2011/05/17 15:45]  Kythera Lionheart: you werent there
[2011/05/17 15:45]  Lem Skall: capturing him alive would have created more complications that would have caused more fighting
[2011/05/17 15:45]  Tikor: Did you read the pakistani reaction?
[2011/05/17 15:45]  Zobeid Zuma: I like the way they handled it. Dumped off a boat. Like garbage. And good riddance.
[2011/05/17 15:45]  Extropia DaSilva: Hear hear
[2011/05/17 15:46]  Adur Gaelyth: they should have done it as an international operation
[2011/05/17 15:46]  Lem Skall: Zo, I disagree
[2011/05/17 15:46]  Shorahmin Femto: with a pork sandwich in his mouth forever
[2011/05/17 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: why, Lem? what should have happened?
[2011/05/17 15:46]  Kythera Lionheart: adur, again it would have been nice, but he would have been tipped off
[2011/05/17 15:46]  Kythera Lionheart: too many spies
[2011/05/17 15:46]  Ivy Sunkiller: Adur: yes, because international military >small scale< operations are just so much more efficient 🙂
[2011/05/17 15:46]  Lem Skall: reactions like Zo’s are what I disagree with, there is no need for emotions like that, just keep it rational and fight based on that
[2011/05/17 15:46]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): Lem, I’ll second that … they stepped over a line or two on that
[2011/05/17 15:46]  Tikor: Adur, I think an international operation would be too leak-risky. The US has problems keeping it’s own intelligence a secret when they aren’t sharing (wikileaks).
[2011/05/17 15:46]  Khannea Suntzu: Oh yes, Bush would probably habe taken him home and have CIA teams sodomize his cadaver for months with toothcombs on national fox goebbels pravda.
[2011/05/17 15:47]  Adur Gaelyth: America is going to loose its leadership if it goes on like this
[2011/05/17 15:47]  Ivy Sunkiller: haha K
[2011/05/17 15:47]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): A trial would have been more beneficial and civilized. No doubt he’d be found guilty and executed, but there would be a record of his crimes and the principles the US claims to stand for would remain intact.
[2011/05/17 15:47]  Zobeid Zuma: I’ve just been thinking things are starting to look up for the USA. :/
[2011/05/17 15:47]  Ivy Sunkiller: Adur: it’s prolly going to lose it anyway, for other reasons
[2011/05/17 15:47]  Lem Skall: Extie, Osama had to be also silenced, you cannot silence him if you put him on trial
[2011/05/17 15:47]  Khannea Suntzu: ‘leadership’ as in credibility? moral authority? supremacy? guiding hand? Charm and wit? …. love?
[2011/05/17 15:48]  Adur Gaelyth: why had he to be silenced?
[2011/05/17 15:48]  Kythera Lionheart: yes it would be nice to try everyone, but in a military operation things arent so smooth and calculated
[2011/05/17 15:48]  Kythera Lionheart: its a lot of fly by the seat of your pants
[2011/05/17 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: No need for a trial, Lem.
[2011/05/17 15:48]  Khannea Suntzu: Pfft justice in the US… ‘does it blend’ ?
[2011/05/17 15:48]  Tikor: I think the U.S. influence is on the decline as well – but that is as it should be. They simply aren’t a large fraction of humanity – their outsized influence is becoming more normal in all ways except militarily.
[2011/05/17 15:48]  Ivy Sunkiller: they could have as well sentenced him to death without him before the thing 🙂
[2011/05/17 15:48]  Lem Skall: Adur, because he was charismatic and that is how he was drawing people
[2011/05/17 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: could the war end with the terrorists winning? what is their end game?
[2011/05/17 15:49]  Khannea Suntzu: Charismatic my ass. Osama was loaded.
[2011/05/17 15:49]  Tikor: The U.S. has a principle of letting the accused face the accusers. Thus no trials in absentensia
[2011/05/17 15:49]  Lem Skall: look, it was just as important to kill him just to give Americans closure, now they can move on and move out of Afghanistan and Iraq
[2011/05/17 15:49]  Adur Gaelyth: now they turned him into a martyr… that’s worse
[2011/05/17 15:49]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): This was an assasination, by all accounts, not a legitimate enforcement of law.
[2011/05/17 15:49]  Zobeid Zuma: We seriously need to cut back on our military. And we’re going to. . . but not nearly as quickly or as much as I’d like to see.
[2011/05/17 15:49]  Ivy Sunkiller: Extie: from one interview with Osama I’ve watched, their priority was to get non-muslims out of the muslim land and that’s it
[2011/05/17 15:49]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): Extie, that side could never reach any productive goal. they never described a valid one
[2011/05/17 15:49]  Lem Skall: Adur, he would be a martyr anyway
[2011/05/17 15:49]  Tikor: Osama’s endgame is a caliphate – an islamic theocracy.
[2011/05/17 15:49]  Tikor: er, was
[2011/05/17 15:49]  Kythera Lionheart: how do you get rid of anyone without turning him into a martyr?
[2011/05/17 15:50]  Adur Gaelyth: I think Obama thought only about winning votes
[2011/05/17 15:50]  Ivy Sunkiller: so yes, it’s not as much war on terror as war on islam 🙂
[2011/05/17 15:50]  Lem Skall: no, it’s a war on islamic terror
[2011/05/17 15:50]  Khannea Suntzu: Zobeid the moment you cut back on military is the moment you will pay 10 dollar at the pump for a gallon.
[2011/05/17 15:50]  Adur Gaelyth: yes, now the Americans have closure… that means votes
[2011/05/17 15:50]  Zobeid Zuma: Violet, I don’t think it was either an assassination or an act of law enforcement. It was a legitimate act of war.
[2011/05/17 15:50]  Kythera Lionheart: adur, thats what politicians should think about
[2011/05/17 15:50]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): I doubt that anybody “could win” on the long run
[2011/05/17 15:50]  Ivy Sunkiller: you can’t let me keep my wishful thinking Lem, can you?
[2011/05/17 15:50]  Ivy Sunkiller: /me chuckles
[2011/05/17 15:50]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): In that case, it’s definitely unlawful then, Zobe
[2011/05/17 15:51]  Tikor: Well we should be paying $10 a gallon – but that’s just the clean up the mess burning a gallon of gas makes.
[2011/05/17 15:51]  Zobeid Zuma: How’s that, Violet?
[2011/05/17 15:51]  Adur Gaelyth: it wasn’t legitimate
[2011/05/17 15:51]  Lem Skall: Zo, assassinating a leader is not an act of war, there are strict rules about that and that is why the US never invoked THAT argument
[2011/05/17 15:51]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Attacking a foreign country out of the blue?
[2011/05/17 15:51]  MarkMonet Thor: There is domestic law, international law. Bty international law the killing was legal. He had declared war on the UNited states. and therefore, his killingwas an act of war.
[2011/05/17 15:51]  Zobeid Zuma: Killing an enemy officer on the battlefield has always been considered legitimate.
[2011/05/17 15:51]  Adur Gaelyth: if that was legitimate, then killing Obama would also be legitimate… because he is an assassin
[2011/05/17 15:51]  Second Life: Items successfully shared.
[2011/05/17 15:51]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): the military funds costs you more than 10$ bucks a nose
[2011/05/17 15:51]  Lem Skall: no, the international law is not that clear and this act was doubtfully legal
[2011/05/17 15:51]  Khannea Suntzu: Terrorism is not a milutary issue. Terrorism is not a security issue. It isn’t a law enforcement issue or an economic issue. Terrorism should be regarded as symptoms of a psychiatric disorder.
[2011/05/17 15:52]  Zobeid Zuma: It’s funny how all the legal experts say this was legitimate, but the peanut gallery here are so much more expert on the subject. 😛
[2011/05/17 15:52]  Lem Skall: Adur, Osama was not an assassin, he was the leader of an organization
[2011/05/17 15:52]  MarkMonet Thor: We dis the same in WWII. We killed Adm amamota as he we rereviewing his forces–shoe him down.
[2011/05/17 15:52]  Forceme Silverspar: If bin Laden had killed US Pres would that have been legitimate then too as just part of war?
[2011/05/17 15:52]  Tikor: Well it wouldn’t be a peanut gallery if we weren’t a little nutty =D
[2011/05/17 15:52]  Zobeid Zuma: Yes, we did take down Yamamoto — in a carefully planned operation. I’ve never heard anybody say that wasn’t legitimate.
[2011/05/17 15:52]  Lem Skall: no, what Osama was doing was definitely not legal
[2011/05/17 15:53]  Kythera Lionheart: if you say so
[2011/05/17 15:53]  Adur Gaelyth: Zobeid, you believe in “legal experts”?
[2011/05/17 15:53]  Khannea Suntzu: Zobeid we agree. His maffia style execution was normal realpoltik. Nothing new.
[2011/05/17 15:53]  Lem Skall: Yamamoto was a general in an official military, not the same thing
[2011/05/17 15:53]  Khannea Suntzu: It was inescapable.
[2011/05/17 15:53]  Kimiko Yiyuan: If you look at what happened and how cheerful everybody- at least in the US – was after that killing and how it all happened – a small special forces team going there, making a quick killing …I ask myself if that could not have been done 10 years ago, when after 9/11 Osamas location was well known…they almost had him but let him escape then…so, couldn’t that have been done then? For what all those misery, the war in Afghanistan and the invasion of Iraq. Ten years wasted on the illussion of fighting a foe as dangerous as nazi fascism or soviet communism, and ignoring the real big issues. The climate problematic, the rise of china and other powers, the transformation of the finacial systems and economic situations. 10 years wasted for an obsession with a phantom whos actual involvement in 9/11 has never been proven and the only real evidence against him in that case was that he “declared war” on the US and cheered the terrorists that did it.
[2011/05/17 15:53]  Adur Gaelyth: I would like to know what the arab “legal experts” say about this
[2011/05/17 15:53]  Zobeid Zuma: Wait, wait. . . Al Qeada isnt’ an “official military” and is therefore deserving of some kind of special protections? 😛
[2011/05/17 15:54]  Kythera Lionheart: well we’re sorry that individuals now how enough money to have their own armies, but that’s the world now
[2011/05/17 15:54]  Lem Skall: Kimiko, Osama’s location was not well known right after 9/11
[2011/05/17 15:54]  Lem Skall: only before 9/11
[2011/05/17 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: well according to Zobeid all legal experts say this assasination was legal so maybe we can move on from the legality question now?
[2011/05/17 15:54]  MarkMonet Thor: Got to go. Good discussion. Bye
[2011/05/17 15:54]  Ivy Sunkiller: byes Mark
[2011/05/17 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: bye
[2011/05/17 15:54]  Lem Skall: Zo is lying ;P
[2011/05/17 15:55]  MarkMonet Thor: Keep in mind that this disccussion would have to be secret it the other side were to win.
[2011/05/17 15:55]  Lem Skall: ok, moving on to what?
[2011/05/17 15:55]  Tikor: Yeah, I’d like to move on from legality
[2011/05/17 15:55]  Khannea Suntzu: Zobeid, correctly. How demoralizing would it be for agents ogf Al Qaida, to know that they wouldn’t face death penalties or prisons – but intense psychotherapy and heavy regimens of medication. This would actually be ftiggin dangerous to their belief systen, It would be *terrifying’ to these fanatics.
[2011/05/17 15:55]  Kimiko Yiyuan: It was. They almost got him in Afghanistan, they had him sourrounded. But the dopeheads in the White House gave the order to retreat and let the Afghan allies handle the situation. But Osama bribed them and he got away.
[2011/05/17 15:55]  Kythera Lionheart: the whole point of this “war on terror” is that unfortunately, war cannot just be limited to country-to-country anymore
[2011/05/17 15:55]  Zobeid Zuma: I’m just repeating what I’ve gathered from the news. Some political figures overseas have questioned the legality, but whenever somebody asks an actual expert on military and international law, all the answers that I’ve seen have been that it was legal.
[2011/05/17 15:56]  Kythera Lionheart: people are always going to question
[2011/05/17 15:56]  Lem Skall: Kimiko, first time I hear about that and it sounds like some conspiracy fantasy
[2011/05/17 15:56]  Zobeid Zuma: And yes, I think the way the raid was done reflects a lot of lessons learned from past mistakes.
[2011/05/17 15:56]  Kythera Lionheart: it still does
[2011/05/17 15:56]  Khannea Suntzu: Ah comw on questioning the legality of Osama’s eradication is like questioning the milutary sense of nuclear weapons, like ‘are you for real ?
[2011/05/17 15:56]  Lem Skall: Zo, not true, opinions are split
[2011/05/17 15:56]  Adur Gaelyth: exactly Kythera… it’s an international problem
[2011/05/17 15:56]  Kimiko Yiyuan: No, it is no conspiracy fantasy.
[2011/05/17 15:57]  Lem Skall: eradication? interesting euphemism
[2011/05/17 15:57]  Zobeid Zuma: I haven’t seen those split opinions. I’m not lying about this. When I say I haven’t seen them, I really haven’t seen them. 😛
[2011/05/17 15:57]  Lem Skall: Zo, you watching only fox news?
[2011/05/17 15:57]  Tikor: Nuclear weapons are my #1 reason for exloring space colonization. Imagine having a terrorist there, though, where every breath is made possible by delicate machinery?
[2011/05/17 15:57]  Zobeid Zuma: I don’t watch too much TV news.
[2011/05/17 15:58]  Lem Skall: Zo, maybe that is your mistake ;P
[2011/05/17 15:58]  Zobeid Zuma: I value my brain cells. 😛
[2011/05/17 15:58]  Extropia DaSilva: *giggles*
[2011/05/17 15:58]  Khannea Suntzu: Zobeid has a point.
[2011/05/17 15:58]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): No, that’s usually a good plan….TV news is abyssmal :p
[2011/05/17 15:58]  Kythera Lionheart: haha, if its on the interent, it must be true
[2011/05/17 15:58]  Lem Skall: ok, so now what? will this end terrorism? clearly not
[2011/05/17 15:58]  Extropia DaSilva: what do we make of Pakistan not knowing Bin Laden was where he was all this time?
[2011/05/17 15:59]  Lem Skall: it does weaken it though for the medium to long term
[2011/05/17 15:59]  Tikor: I don’t believe that.
[2011/05/17 15:59]  Khannea Suntzu: Oh I have good hope we can eradicate terrorism just after we eradicate influenza.
[2011/05/17 15:59]  Tikor: Pakistan – someone in the pakistani military – must have known
[2011/05/17 15:59]  Lem Skall: I believe that no one at the high level in Pakistan knew it but it is easy to bribe the local police there
[2011/05/17 15:59]  Adur Gaelyth: anyway, even if that killing was “legal”, the real question is: was it good for the “war on terror”? was it really good news?
[2011/05/17 15:59]  Zobeid Zuma: This isn’t going to end terrorism. But I do think a chapter is ending. We should gradually go back to the situation pre-9/11, when terrorism was an occasional manageable problem, not a global conflict.
[2011/05/17 15:59]  Kythera Lionheart: it makes pakistan either ignorant, incompitant, or liars. none of which are good news
[2011/05/17 16:00]  Lem Skall: Adur, like I said, it was good for the American people
[2011/05/17 16:00]  Kythera Lionheart: yes its good news
[2011/05/17 16:00]  Khannea Suntzu: Then again, *IS* a large collection of chickens held in a coop a ‘nation’ – *IS* pakistan a ‘nation’ ?
[2011/05/17 16:00]  Adur Gaelyth: in what sense was it good for the Americans, Lem?
[2011/05/17 16:00]  Lem Skall: whoa, you callin Pakistanis chicken
[2011/05/17 16:00]  Kythera Lionheart: it reinforces that terrorism is a not a method to real change, and that only diplomacy will bring about change
[2011/05/17 16:00]  Lem Skall: ?
[2011/05/17 16:01]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): Osama is not the terrorist
[2011/05/17 16:01]  Zobeid Zuma: I thing that the decline of jihadism was happening already, was going to happen anyhow, but Bin Laden’s demise will hasten it.
[2011/05/17 16:01]  Lem Skall: Adur, it brought them closure
[2011/05/17 16:01]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): the US government is its own enime
[2011/05/17 16:01]  Khannea Suntzu: The death of Osama has increased birth rates in 8 months. This will be good for the economy in 2029.
[2011/05/17 16:01]  Tikor: I disagree, kythera. More forces than diplomacy have real change power.
[2011/05/17 16:01]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I don’t know what effect it will have. I expect it’ll probably just be another drop in the bucket, though.
[2011/05/17 16:01]  Kythera Lionheart: such as?
[2011/05/17 16:01]  Zobeid Zuma: Kythera had a good point. Zawahiri tried for 30 years to overthrow Mubarik with terrorism. Middle class people with cell phones did it in 30 days.
[2011/05/17 16:01]  Lem Skall: no, Khan, that is Christmas parties and black outs
[2011/05/17 16:01]  Tikor: economic forces, technology, immigration
[2011/05/17 16:01]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): A bribeocracy where monsanto makes the laws
[2011/05/17 16:01]  Khannea Suntzu: I am sure it has swelled balls.
[2011/05/17 16:01]  Kimiko Yiyuan: And while we are at it… Mabe that is new to you too, Lem. Osama, of course, was not a newbie in that and was looked for well before 9/11. It was known that he was in Afghanistan and when the Taliban, which were pretty much isolated then, for obvious reasons, wanted to open themselves for international relations and talks again, they offered the US and Clinton to hand them over Osama bin Laden. But that was before 9/11, and before the deal was done, Bush got elected and Terrorism was really high on his personal agenda. Until 9/11 happened.
[2011/05/17 16:01]  Tikor: All can change the direction of nations
[2011/05/17 16:01]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): Osama’s death means nothing
[2011/05/17 16:02]  Kythera Lionheart: tikor, how?
[2011/05/17 16:02]  Extropia DaSilva: really? Nothing?
[2011/05/17 16:02]  Kimiko Yiyuan: was not really high on the agenda
[2011/05/17 16:02]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): it is media hype to fuel the over investment in the DOD
[2011/05/17 16:02]  Lem Skall: Kimiko, let’s assassinate then every man who in the world who hates the US
[2011/05/17 16:02]  Luh (luisa.bourgoin): Zob made a point … these middle class cellphone people should be closely observed …
[2011/05/17 16:02]  Zobeid Zuma: Twitter Revolution!
[2011/05/17 16:03]  Ivy Sunkiller: oh shit, I’ve to hide!
[2011/05/17 16:03]  Ivy Sunkiller: US is after me
[2011/05/17 16:03]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): hehe
[2011/05/17 16:03]  Extropia DaSilva: so you think Osama was like Goldstein in 1984? I hate boogyman used to justify a perpetual state of conflict?
[2011/05/17 16:03]  Zobeid Zuma: And yes. . . The military-industrial-congressional complex in the USA is deeply entrenched and isn’t going to be defanged without a struggle.
[2011/05/17 16:03]  Tikor: Kythera – the U.S. was once an isolationist nation. After the destruction of Europe’s industrial centers, the demand for American finished goods took off, and with it took the U.S.’s isolationist’s claims. No diplomat argued for it, it happed via enconimic realities.
[2011/05/17 16:03]  Lem Skall: who was Goldstein?
[2011/05/17 16:03]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): every gallon of gasoline purchased in the us indirectly funds terrorism, therefor americans are their own enemie with wasting fuel in inefficient vehicles
[2011/05/17 16:03]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Osama was definitely a US Goldstein.
[2011/05/17 16:03]  Adur Gaelyth: soon there will be Twitter Revolutions in Europe too… maybe also in America
[2011/05/17 16:04]  Lem Skall: ah yes, down with imperialism
[2011/05/17 16:04]  Khannea Suntzu: Sorry but after the cold war and all that old flow falling away, all that ‘sick money’ had to go somewhere. I see a system that was spinning in place doing somersaults creating elaborate reasons to burn excess ‘money’, say on 40.000$ toilets for te NSA.
[2011/05/17 16:04]  Kimiko Yiyuan: I don’t know what that has to do with what i just said. All i was saying is that the US got their chance at least twice to get a hold of Osama, and they missed this opportunity. The first time out of carelessness, the second time because of ignorance.
[2011/05/17 16:04]  Jackie (jackie.jurassic): bye everybody
[2011/05/17 16:04]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): A fictional enemy of the people created to channel their discontent in 1984, Lem
[2011/05/17 16:04]  Lem Skall: Kimiko, you said Osama should have been killed BEFORE 9/11
[2011/05/17 16:04]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Bye 🙂
[2011/05/17 16:04]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): careless and ignorant in many ways described mainstream americans well
[2011/05/17 16:04]  Kythera Lionheart: so if you want change, you should destroy someone’s economy? thats terrorism as well. our multiple wars has severly weakened the US
[2011/05/17 16:04]  Extropia DaSilva: In the story 1984 Goldstein was a mythical figure who wrote a book which explains the true agenda of Oceanea, eastasia and eurasia.
[2011/05/17 16:04]  Zobeid Zuma: Imperialism has been a disaster for the USA. We’ve had all the costs of empire, and none of the spoils.
[2011/05/17 16:05]  Amy69Gurl Fairlady (amy69gurl): buy oil, support terorrism. as like vietnam, this is a bullshit war
[2011/05/17 16:05]  Lem Skall: oh, don’t remember that from 1984
[2011/05/17 16:05]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): exactly Amy69
[2011/05/17 16:05]  Khannea Suntzu: I’d have laughed my ass of if Osama turned himself in a few months ago at the Hague to stand trial.
[2011/05/17 16:05]  Xiomara Glas: it may have brought closure to the loved ones of the victims of 9-11 but I don’t think it will bring the closure of the terrorism.
[2011/05/17 16:05]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): corrrect
[2011/05/17 16:05]  Kimiko Yiyuan: No, that was a misunderstanding then. What i said was that he was sought for well before 9/11, because of the terror acts he committed in the 1990#s against US installations.
[2011/05/17 16:05]  Tikor: I don’t advocate economic sabatoge – but economic disasters can have lasting consequences to the personalities of nations. Without the necessary diplomacy of trade agreements, ect.
[2011/05/17 16:05]  Extropia DaSilva: YOu do not remember the two minutes hate? their anger was focused on Goldstein.
[2011/05/17 16:05]  Lem Skall: Xio, you’re missing the point of what closure means
[2011/05/17 16:06]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): national debt is more of a threat to the US than any person or group of terrorists
[2011/05/17 16:06]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I doubt it brought closure to anyone actually involved with 9/11; it brought closure to the more national narrative, I guess
[2011/05/17 16:06]  Kythera Lionheart: but that’s not people working towards a cause
[2011/05/17 16:06]  Khannea Suntzu: Well as we see rape is a somewhat prevalent mindset at these management levels.
[2011/05/17 16:06]  Lem Skall: oh, kill him for attacks on US installations
[2011/05/17 16:07]  Lem Skall: let’s kill the people on Wall Street
[2011/05/17 16:07]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): that made in China sticker should scare Americans more than Osama
[2011/05/17 16:07]  Zobeid Zuma: And yes, even the Pentagon now categorizes the national debt as a major threat to US security. Not that they advocate cutting their *own* budget. . .
[2011/05/17 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: how about ‘the war is not meant to be won. It is meant to be continued’. Goldstein said that. Actually, his essay makes you wonder about real wars. Are they actually for destroying the fruits of labour so as to perpetuate an unequal society?
[2011/05/17 16:07]  Amy69Gurl Fairlady (amy69gurl): like any other creep, they twist their beliefs to suit themselves, have you ever read the koran?
[2011/05/17 16:08]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): if society were equal everyone would be poor
[2011/05/17 16:08]  Kythera Lionheart: wars are like sports, a distraction to keep people looking in the other direction
[2011/05/17 16:08]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): there are too many people and not enough earths worth of materials
[2011/05/17 16:08]  Khannea Suntzu: Well Lem *wink* as I said, terrorism SHOULD BE REGARDED a psuychiatric disorder….. which would place wuite a few on wall street in the librium ward.
[2011/05/17 16:08]  Lem Skall: what was that character’s name in Fifth Element? talking about the upside of destruction
[2011/05/17 16:08]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I’m poor now, so bring it on :p
[2011/05/17 16:08]  Kimiko Yiyuan: As far as I know it was not planned to kill him back then. At least not as far as the Clinton – Taliban deal is concerned. And if you think I have advocated killing by stating what i did, then you have probably misunderstood me again, Lem.
[2011/05/17 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: If the Koran is anything like the Bible you can probably interpret it in such a way as to support anything you like.
[2011/05/17 16:08]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): no one in this game is poor
[2011/05/17 16:08]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I’m poor.
[2011/05/17 16:09]  Extropia DaSilva: or to denounce anything you do not like.
[2011/05/17 16:09]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): to have access and hardware for SL puts you in a narrow gap of the elite
[2011/05/17 16:09]  Zobeid Zuma: I heard about an interesting report recently, that predicts manufacturing will start moving back to the USA. The cost of making stuff in China is increasing rapidly, and the USA is becoming the cheapest place to produce goods in the “developed world”.
[2011/05/17 16:09]  Tikor: Extropia – I doubt many wars are fought to keep the classes uneven. There is a good deal of literature on what a ‘just’ war is – unfortunately I think the recent wars don’t map very well.
[2011/05/17 16:09]  Amy69Gurl Fairlady (amy69gurl): war is a dick waving competition, ever notice all the bullets, rockets, & missles are shaped like male penis? something to think about
[2011/05/17 16:09]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): /me looks outside
[2011/05/17 16:09]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Nope. Squalor.
[2011/05/17 16:09]  Khannea Suntzu: Violet, I am poor too. But darling you havent seen poor when shit hits the fan.
[2011/05/17 16:09]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): lol Amy
[2011/05/17 16:09]  Kythera Lionheart: everything is dick waving
[2011/05/17 16:09]  Lem Skall: Amy, a coincidence, they are all built to be aerodynamic
[2011/05/17 16:09]  Extropia DaSilva: That might have something to do with aerodynamics, Amy;)
[2011/05/17 16:09]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): Almost no Americans know poverty
[2011/05/17 16:09]  Lem Skall: and what does that say about pussies?
[2011/05/17 16:10]  Extropia DaSilva: Oo a Lem and Extie agreement.
[2011/05/17 16:10]  Tikor: It is the truth that american janitors can afford ipods.
[2011/05/17 16:10]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): or laptops
[2011/05/17 16:10]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Um.
[2011/05/17 16:10]  Zobeid Zuma: Almost nobody except the guys living under the bridge. Oh well. . . I guess they count as nobodys.
[2011/05/17 16:10]  Kythera Lionheart: on credit
[2011/05/17 16:10]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh are we going to do the Dicks Asses and Pussies speech from Team America now?
[2011/05/17 16:10]  Tikor: an order of magnitude difference in wages is hard to sustain in a global world.
[2011/05/17 16:10]  Khannea Suntzu: Actually refugeees can afford Ipods2s.
[2011/05/17 16:10]  Lem Skall: lol, Extie
[2011/05/17 16:10]  Amy69Gurl Fairlady (amy69gurl): its about GOD. mt god is better than your god, so i must kill you now.
[2011/05/17 16:10]  Lem Skall: I want to see that in the poem
[2011/05/17 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: OK I will try…
[2011/05/17 16:11]  Lem Skall: Amy, fights about god are always pissing contests
[2011/05/17 16:11]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): the ideological differenced between nations certainly fuels conflic
[2011/05/17 16:11]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): t*
[2011/05/17 16:11]  Kythera Lionheart: until a god finally shows up
[2011/05/17 16:11]  Adur Gaelyth: they say the oil reserves of the world will be depleted in 20 or 30 years… that will mean the end of the world as we know it
[2011/05/17 16:11]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): good
[2011/05/17 16:11]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): No one takes Baldur seriously.
[2011/05/17 16:11]  Ivy Sunkiller: /me’s god alarm beeps
[2011/05/17 16:11]  Lem Skall: Ky, when hell freezes over
[2011/05/17 16:11]  Zobeid Zuma: Did someone call for a deity?
[2011/05/17 16:11]  Khannea Suntzu: Somehow I see Zeus more with lightning bolts.
[2011/05/17 16:11]  Tikor: That would be a good way to end the argument, Kythera. Divine intervention.
[2011/05/17 16:11]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): when oil ends it will force people to think carefully
[2011/05/17 16:12]  Adur Gaelyth: yes, Dig
[2011/05/17 16:12]  Zobeid Zuma: Hi Unicorn Goddess!
[2011/05/17 16:12]  Khannea Suntzu: Yah I am here, working on it, but management didn’t gave me much to work with.
[2011/05/17 16:12]  Unicorn Goddess (mystique.firehawk): hi
[2011/05/17 16:12]  Ivy Sunkiller: Unicorns 😀
[2011/05/17 16:12]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): right now most Americans have no idea how to grow food
[2011/05/17 16:12]  Amy69Gurl Fairlady (amy69gurl): ever notice all wars (overseas), we have bombed brown ppl, except the germans? hmmm
[2011/05/17 16:12]  Kythera Lionheart: the only other way to end the argument is heat death
[2011/05/17 16:12]  Adur Gaelyth: all our political ideas will have to change
[2011/05/17 16:12]  Case Wrangler: In case anyone here is not already familiar with it, Glen Greenwald has some excellent articles with perspective on this very topic. http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/index.html
[2011/05/17 16:12]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I grow food!
[2011/05/17 16:12]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): good Violet
[2011/05/17 16:12]  Zobeid Zuma: I don’t think the future involves giving everyone forty acres and a mule.
[2011/05/17 16:12]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): me too
[2011/05/17 16:12]  Zobeid Zuma: I sure hope not anyhow.
[2011/05/17 16:12]  Lem Skall: Goldstein, Greenwald, what’s with all the Jews?
[2011/05/17 16:13]  Tikor: I hope the future involves a post-scarcity economy.
[2011/05/17 16:13]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I don’t think more basic survival skills ever go out of style
[2011/05/17 16:13]  Æbleskiver Thibedeau (aebleskiver.thibedeau): /me blinks.
[2011/05/17 16:13]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): How Cuba Survived peak oil: it will show you that urban gardens will be required to survive the decline of oil markets
[2011/05/17 16:13]  Tikor: Now that would be a change to influence nations.
[2011/05/17 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: It does, Tikor.
[2011/05/17 16:13]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): if people cant eat, they cant do anything else
[2011/05/17 16:13]  Adur Gaelyth: I agrre Violet and Dig
[2011/05/17 16:13]  Lem Skall: we need oil to eat?
[2011/05/17 16:13]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): yes
[2011/05/17 16:13]  Kythera Lionheart: yes
[2011/05/17 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: yes, Lem.
[2011/05/17 16:13]  Khannea Suntzu: Isn’t it obvious? Hello… jews breed like rabbits.
[2011/05/17 16:13]  Zobeid Zuma: We need oil to eat the way we have been.
[2011/05/17 16:13]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): oil is used to fertilize farms
[2011/05/17 16:13]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): to harvest the food
[2011/05/17 16:13]  Khannea Suntzu: …by now we are probably all jews.
[2011/05/17 16:13]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): to ship the food
[2011/05/17 16:14]  Amy69Gurl Fairlady (amy69gurl): you eat oil? gross
[2011/05/17 16:14]  Lem Skall: Khan, less than Palestinians
[2011/05/17 16:14]  Kythera Lionheart: to transport and clean and produce, everything
[2011/05/17 16:14]  Tikor: Oil is part of the green revolution that increases yields to current levels.
[2011/05/17 16:14]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): Petrochemicals are involved in almost all food processes in one way or another
[2011/05/17 16:14]  Adur Gaelyth: modern agriculture = transforming oil into food
[2011/05/17 16:14]  Lem Skall: how did people eat before oil?
[2011/05/17 16:14]  Khannea Suntzu: Lem, easy nuff give the palestinians porn.
[2011/05/17 16:14]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): exactly
[2011/05/17 16:14]  Tikor: It’s a key reactant for the fertilizer, if I recall correctly.
[2011/05/17 16:14]  Khannea Suntzu: an MMO’s
[2011/05/17 16:14]  Amy69Gurl Fairlady (amy69gurl): want my honest opinion?
[2011/05/17 16:14]  Extropia DaSilva: The green revolutiion makes use of petrochemicals, which are fossil fuel based. Witout fossil feuls we could only feed a workd population of one billion people.
[2011/05/17 16:14]  Lem Skall: apparently Osama had porn
[2011/05/17 16:14]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Ok, so what does Osamas death really mean for the “war on terror”. Not much, as has been said. Because al – Qaeda is far from being the only radical and islamistic terror organisation out there. And al – Quada is active in more than 100 countries. Nor is terrorism something that would only be done by radical muslims.
[2011/05/17 16:14]  Kythera Lionheart: there were far less people, which will be how it will have to be again
[2011/05/17 16:14]  Lem Skall: and the circle is complete
[2011/05/17 16:15]  Kythera Lionheart: when an animal’s food supply is cut off, the population shrinks
[2011/05/17 16:15]  Zobeid Zuma: For most of history about 90% of the population have been farm workers. It took that many to feed themselves and the other 10%. Now we have machines to do all that work. . . as long as we can power them, and produce pesticides and fertilizers, etc.
[2011/05/17 16:15]  Adur Gaelyth: before oil the world population was less than a half of what it is now
[2011/05/17 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: I want your honest opinon, Avy.
[2011/05/17 16:15]  Tikor: or the animal finds another source of nutrients
[2011/05/17 16:15]  Lem Skall: soylent green is people!!!!!
[2011/05/17 16:15]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): Terrorisim in not a military campaign, its an ideological manipulation tactic
[2011/05/17 16:15]  Amy69Gurl Fairlady (amy69gurl): i say rain hell fire from 40k feet , or neutron bomb; either way its win win
[2011/05/17 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: We gotta stop them! Somehow!!!
[2011/05/17 16:15]  Tikor: Our other source of ‘energy nutrients’ would of course be the sun.
[2011/05/17 16:15]  Kythera Lionheart: tikor, ah, so we just need a way to produce food without oil….yes that would be nice
[2011/05/17 16:16]  Amy69Gurl Fairlady (amy69gurl): soilent green
[2011/05/17 16:16]  Kythera Lionheart: if you can do it, youll be a millionare
[2011/05/17 16:16]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): we can produce sustainable food, just not very much
[2011/05/17 16:16]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): not enough for 7billion
[2011/05/17 16:16]  Lem Skall: there’s always shit, we can make food out of it
[2011/05/17 16:16]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): thats right
[2011/05/17 16:16]  Khannea Suntzu: If you actually WOULD regard terrorism as symptomatic of a psychiatric disorder, the consequence is we’d all have to look at infectivity, pathology, isolation of those infected – but also causation. How does the disorder emerde. This is the way to do it. Treat it like a mechanism. Look at facts, not fears and face the reality.
[2011/05/17 16:16]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Apparently that is something that is thought to be a hoax or spin by many Lem, especially in the muslim world and not only by those that are declared jihadists.
[2011/05/17 16:16]  Extropia DaSilva: Is this where I remind people that revalations speaks of ‘wormwood’ polluting the worlds waters, and that the Russian for wormwood is ‘Chernobyl’?
[2011/05/17 16:16]  Zobeid Zuma: The mechanical stuff can be done with electricity, which can be produced cleanly in various ways. Fertilizers and pesticides are more problematic.
[2011/05/17 16:16]  Amy69Gurl Fairlady (amy69gurl): we have soilent red, yellow, & now green. Mmm green
[2011/05/17 16:16]  Kimiko Yiyuan: So that will probably not help at all.
[2011/05/17 16:17]  Kythera Lionheart: have to go, have a good one
[2011/05/17 16:17]  Lem Skall: lol, I’d love to see Extie’s blog post next time
[2011/05/17 16:17]  Case Wrangler: It’s more like a war for terror, since it’s helping to foster and grow way more hatred and it’s making it easy for anyone to unify against the US under that hatred.
[2011/05/17 16:17]  Adur Gaelyth: oil comes from the sun… but plants needed millions of years to produce it… will we ber able of finding a more efficent way of using the energy of the sun? I don’t think so
[2011/05/17 16:17]  Tikor: I’m off to see a movie, but thanks for the discussion. It was lively =D
[2011/05/17 16:17]  Extropia DaSilva: My next blog post? About what?
[2011/05/17 16:17]  Khannea Suntzu: Extie, can you in the past add your post-hoc observations and comments in these chat logs?
[2011/05/17 16:17]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Bye Tikor
[2011/05/17 16:17]  Lem Skall: Extie, the transcript of this
[2011/05/17 16:17]  Zobeid Zuma: A lot of people are working on more efficient ways of getting energy from the sun. It’s totally possible.
[2011/05/17 16:17]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): solar thermal with combined cycle recovery
[2011/05/17 16:18]  Tikor: Yes, biochemists are researching getting algea to prodcue similar substances to petrochemicals. With sunlight, water and carbon dioxide.
[2011/05/17 16:18]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): %80 of the solar energy into grid power
[2011/05/17 16:18]  Extropia DaSilva: The chat log is posted unabridged and un ediited.
[2011/05/17 16:18]  Tikor: see ya
[2011/05/17 16:18]  Lem Skall: you forget wind energy, there is a lot of hot air too
[2011/05/17 16:18]  Zobeid Zuma: Geothermal and nuclear power should have roles too.
[2011/05/17 16:18]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): wind is inconsistent
[2011/05/17 16:18]  Adur Gaelyth: to do in hours what plants did in millions of years? I think you are dreaming, Zobeid
[2011/05/17 16:18]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Yeah, Khannea, but terrorism is not mental disorder but a tactic. Maybe a few terrorists have mental disorders but claiming that and regard every terrorist as just some mad and raving lunatic would be too easy. And might probably do more harm then good.
[2011/05/17 16:18]  Zobeid Zuma: It’s not that far-fetched Adur.
[2011/05/17 16:19]  Adur Gaelyth: well, time will tell…
[2011/05/17 16:19]  Awendrew Ordinary: nuclear power has a place.. but they should bury it under the nuclear power plants and stop trying to push it on small poor towns
[2011/05/17 16:19]  Lem Skall: Dig, inconsistent does not matter as long as you store
[2011/05/17 16:19]  Extropia DaSilva: You know this discussion is not really about alternative energy or anything other than what the death of osama means for the war on terror. Shall we get back on topic?
[2011/05/17 16:19]  Case Wrangler: [going afk…]
[2011/05/17 16:19]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): Yea, the sun throws more energy on Navada in 1 hour then we produce with carbon all year as humans
[2011/05/17 16:19]  Adur Gaelyth: I hope you are right, Zobeid
[2011/05/17 16:19]  Zobeid Zuma: Natural oil was produced through random, haphazard processes. If you cultivate algae intensively in a bio-reactor and refine it efficiently, you could (in theory) produce oil in a practical way.
[2011/05/17 16:19]  Lem Skall: but let’s forget energy and eco stuff, let’s get back to killing
[2011/05/17 16:19]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Trying Extropia, trying. 😀
[2011/05/17 16:19]  Extropia DaSilva: Off topic. Come on guys, stick with the actual topic OK?
[2011/05/17 16:19]  Adur Gaelyth: ok, sorry, Extropia
[2011/05/17 16:19]  Lem Skall: so who do we have to kill next?
[2011/05/17 16:19]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): yea sorry
[2011/05/17 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: NP
[2011/05/17 16:20]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): who is going to die next to help the cause of the USA?
[2011/05/17 16:20]  Khannea Suntzu: ‘we’? Sorry civilized people do hot go and eradicate haphazzardly.
[2011/05/17 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: Micheal Moore?
[2011/05/17 16:20]  Zobeid Zuma: Tempting. 🙂
[2011/05/17 16:20]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): can we scapegoat all of the issues onto one person ?
[2011/05/17 16:20]  Lem Skall: I was thinking Kate Middleton
[2011/05/17 16:20]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): lol
[2011/05/17 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: Awww she is nice.
[2011/05/17 16:20]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): The Duggars
[2011/05/17 16:21]  Amy69Gurl Fairlady (amy69gurl): war on terror – made up crap. remember this “buy a car & a diamond ring, or the terrorists win” ?
[2011/05/17 16:21]  Khannea Suntzu: It wouldnt get through to his core, Zobeid. He’d shrug it off.
[2011/05/17 16:21]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): 19 brains cells and counting
[2011/05/17 16:21]  Lem Skall: yes, she is nice but ahe is not American
[2011/05/17 16:21]  Lem Skall: she*
[2011/05/17 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: Is that for real, Amy?
[2011/05/17 16:21]  Khannea Suntzu: No. The Duggars deserbe beiung rounded up, shoved in a one way time machine to the 48th centuury.
[2011/05/17 16:21]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): lol
[2011/05/17 16:21]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Nobody that will be as prestigious as Osama, for sure. If the US would like to have such a person, then they would have to kill nobody less then the president of Iran or Kim Jong Il of North Korea.
[2011/05/17 16:21]  Amy69Gurl Fairlady (amy69gurl): its was right after 9-11, government propaganda
[2011/05/17 16:22]  Lem Skall: Gadhafi
[2011/05/17 16:22]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): Kim Ill sounds good
[2011/05/17 16:22]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): him too
[2011/05/17 16:22]  Khannea Suntzu: One thing saddens me
[2011/05/17 16:22]  Lem Skall: only one thing?
[2011/05/17 16:22]  Khannea Suntzu: The OPPRTUNITY for Koerperwelten
[2011/05/17 16:22]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): lol
[2011/05/17 16:22]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): in english?
[2011/05/17 16:22]  Khannea Suntzu: I’d loved to see a nicely splayed corpse of Osama
[2011/05/17 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: Poor Kim Ill. he was ronry.
[2011/05/17 16:22]  Adur Gaelyth: oh yes, now they are talking openly of killing gadhafi
[2011/05/17 16:22]  Lem Skall: no they are not talking openly
[2011/05/17 16:23]  Amy69Gurl Fairlady (amy69gurl): “in case of chemical weapons attack, put duct tape & plastic over windows & doors”. this is their BIG idea
[2011/05/17 16:23]  Lem Skall: and take shelter under a table
[2011/05/17 16:23]  Kimiko Yiyuan: But you can see that they want to, because they are so desperatly trying to figure out who might be al – Qaedas next leader.
[2011/05/17 16:24]  Lem Skall: who’s “they”
[2011/05/17 16:24]  Extropia DaSilva: Ah yes the department of bullshit made up evidence, capable of being deployed in 45 minutes.
[2011/05/17 16:24]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): lol
[2011/05/17 16:24]  Khannea Suntzu: This would have looked so great with that beard? And it would have been so educational. http://www.dertimm.de/wp-content/gallery/plastinate/2009_06_01_koerperwelten_001.jpg
[2011/05/17 16:24]  Kimiko Yiyuan: You have three guesses Lem.
[2011/05/17 16:24]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): DOD = Department of Deception
[2011/05/17 16:24]  Lem Skall: “they” should have come up with something like the Iraq deck of cards for al Qaeda too
[2011/05/17 16:24]  Extropia DaSilva: Minstry Of Truth, more like.
[2011/05/17 16:24]  Amy69Gurl Fairlady (amy69gurl): like nuclear blast in 1950’s, tuck, duck under desk, you’ll be fine. (meanwhile you now live in nuclear wasteland) – propaganda
[2011/05/17 16:25]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): Fox News is propaganda
[2011/05/17 16:25]  Amy69Gurl Fairlady (amy69gurl): we need to be lied to
[2011/05/17 16:25]  Lem Skall: any news is propaganda
[2011/05/17 16:25]  Khannea Suntzu: Yes and internet is for porn.
[2011/05/17 16:25]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): lol
[2011/05/17 16:25]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): or SL
[2011/05/17 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: I got a nice photo of a nuclear fallout shelter some American family built in the 50s. Caption reads ‘see out armageddon with board games and Tinned spinach. No whining allowed’.
[2011/05/17 16:26]  Amy69Gurl Fairlady (amy69gurl): if truth & honesty was introduced into our culture; the whole system would collapse
[2011/05/17 16:26]  Lem Skall: we have 5 minutes to assassinate
[2011/05/17 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: 4 now
[2011/05/17 16:26]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): true Amy
[2011/05/17 16:26]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Yeah, but unfortunatly they had no clue who to put on there Lem. At least not for a full deck.
[2011/05/17 16:26]  Lem Skall: we have 5 minutes to eradicate
[2011/05/17 16:26]  Khannea Suntzu: There is an Al Gaeda group in SL.
[2011/05/17 16:26]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): wow
[2011/05/17 16:26]  Zobeid Zuma: Isn’t that what almost happened with Wikileaks? It threatened to collapse the system.
[2011/05/17 16:26]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): do they sniff eachothers farts?
[2011/05/17 16:27]  Extropia DaSilva: I always suspected Bush was a few cards short of a full deck, you know…
[2011/05/17 16:27]  Lem Skall: is ther an Usama Ben Laid in SL?
[2011/05/17 16:27]  Lem Skall: Usama Been Laid
[2011/05/17 16:27]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): lol
[2011/05/17 16:27]  Amy69Gurl Fairlady (amy69gurl): i met a few months ago, Bush is an idiot
[2011/05/17 16:27]  Khannea Suntzu: It looks pretty sincere actually
[2011/05/17 16:27]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): his name is Bush ; says it all
[2011/05/17 16:27]  Adur Gaelyth: 1984 is a great book, but I don’t think it’s possible to destroy a human soul like it’s depicted in the end of the book… I believe no one can reach our soul… in a deep sense we are out of reach for the Big Brother
[2011/05/17 16:27]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): thats right Adur
[2011/05/17 16:28]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): you can only kill the body
[2011/05/17 16:28]  Lem Skall: that’s if you believe in souls, I don’t
[2011/05/17 16:28]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): no one can take your soul
[2011/05/17 16:28]  Extropia DaSilva: Cheney and George: ‘huhuh you said ‘Bush’ hu hu you said ‘dick’
[2011/05/17 16:28]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): dick bush huh
[2011/05/17 16:28]  Extropia DaSilva: Shoes have soles.
[2011/05/17 16:28]  Khannea Suntzu: Then cunny walks and they both hur.
[2011/05/17 16:28]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Lets hope this is true then, Adur, because that would be our only defense against Big Brother in the end.
[2011/05/17 16:29]  Lem Skall: who’s Big Brother?
[2011/05/17 16:29]  Khannea Suntzu: cun-da-le-za
[2011/05/17 16:29]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): rice
[2011/05/17 16:29]  Kimiko Yiyuan: (neglecting the question if there is really something like a soul heh)
[2011/05/17 16:29]  Khannea Suntzu: /me looks at Toy
[2011/05/17 16:29]  Extropia DaSilva: OK two minutes left so lets have some ayes and nays. Is the war against terror now closer to being resolved, thanks to the death of Osama? Aye or nay?
[2011/05/17 16:29]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): Cunt A lease Ah
[2011/05/17 16:29]  Kimiko Yiyuan: Nay.
[2011/05/17 16:29]  Extropia DaSilva: nay
[2011/05/17 16:30]  Amy69Gurl Fairlady (amy69gurl): use to be USSR, now its video – Big Brother always watches
[2011/05/17 16:30]  Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Nopers.
[2011/05/17 16:30]  Zobeid Zuma: Aye!
[2011/05/17 16:30]  Đıɠ.Ɛţ.Ăɭ  ƼȗƦƒěɼ (cosmic.inglewood): both side of the isle are crooked
[2011/05/17 16:30]  Lem Skall: yes, we can focus less on the war on terror so we are asymptotically closer
[2011/05/17 16:30]  Adur Gaelyth: well Lem don’t call it soul, call it mind ツ
[2011/05/17 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: OK my time is up! NEXT WEEK: THE FOURTH ROBOT ETHIC
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One Response to Thinkers May 17 2011: DEATH OF OSAMA

  1. Arch says:

    Sorry I missed the free for all, I’ll have to comment in absentia.

    I’m glad he’s dead. His stated goal was to kill people, whatever his ideology was for doing so. Anyone who choses the tool of terror does not deserve the consideration of laws designed to maintain a civil, safe society.

    His death will not end terror as a tool for those who chose it, nor will it end the need to protect those who do not chose or advocate terror.

    Osama was broccoli I say, and I won’t have any of it (with apologies to the New Yorker).

    By the way, as one who remembers neighborhoods with nuclear fallout shelters, as well as “duck and cover” exercises at elementary school, I can only say that the notion of armageddon’s pending arrrival is much older than 9/11 or the Bush 2 administration.

    Arch

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