Extropia DaSilva: Welcome to Thinkers![2011/01/25 15:32]  Khannea Suntzu: Thank you dear Extropia[2011/01/25 15:32]  Extropia DaSilva: Today the topic under discussion is…*drum roll*….[2011/01/25 15:32]  Extropia DaSilva: GAME ON FOR UTOPIA: GPS-enabled mobile devices, networked sensors and other technologies are enabling us to combine virtual and physical spaces. Now, some game designers and psychologists believe the key to producing a healthier society lies in bringing gaming into daily life. But is including a gamelike experience in every aspect of life really going to make happier, more productive citizens?[2011/01/25 15:32]  Khannea Suntzu: /me smiles[2011/01/25 15:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait. isn’t this a game?[2011/01/25 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: Welll…no?[2011/01/25 15:34]  Khannea Suntzu: No Gwynneth, the international federation of game design engineers decided Second Life qualifies as a Toy[2011/01/25 15:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I meant life. Not SL :)[2011/01/25 15:34]  Khannea Suntzu: Hah ditto[2011/01/25 15:35]  Ivy Sunkiller: you can qualify life as a game[2011/01/25 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me cannot sit down properly today; too much leg exposure![2011/01/25 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway[2011/01/25 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: When thinking about this topic last week,[2011/01/25 15:35]  Ivy Sunkiller: with the goal being living as long and as well as you can[2011/01/25 15:35]  Ivy Sunkiller: :P[2011/01/25 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was reminded about the “new” use of Augmented Reality: mobile phones[2011/01/25 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: I think this is more to do with adding high-score elements to things like recycling, energy efficiency.[2011/01/25 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And there were some interesting uses for those… like, mmmh, walking across the street, use GPS to track down where are the closest restaurants based on your preferences set in facebook, and so forth[2011/01/25 15:36]  Extropia DaSilva: Hamlet is actually studying this for a paper he is writing. Pity he is not here, his input might have been informative:)[2011/01/25 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder how much time will elapse until someone tries to turn that into a game :)[2011/01/25 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: He is?[2011/01/25 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm :)[2011/01/25 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes. he told me so, when I mentiuoned the article that inspired this topic,[2011/01/25 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Today a friend of mine told my roomie that some people are using something called “Chores Game” to educate their children[2011/01/25 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, you take out the garbage — 10 points[2011/01/25 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Doing the dishes — 5 points[2011/01/25 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and at the end of the week, your parents give you a reward based on your score[2011/01/25 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t know if this is for real, but…[2011/01/25 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It fits into what Hamlet is doing :)[2011/01/25 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Training kids to be professional gamers since their tender age… lol[2011/01/25 15:38]  Ivy Sunkiller: are there negative points?[2011/01/25 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Probably![2011/01/25 15:38]  Ivy Sunkiller: like[2011/01/25 15:38]  Ivy Sunkiller: being caught masturbating to hardcore porn: -100[2011/01/25 15:39]  Extropia DaSilva: Can we think what those might be?[2011/01/25 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps your score falls down overtime if you don’t “Play” enough[2011/01/25 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Ivy… possibly![2011/01/25 15:39]  Khannea Suntzu: I had a game like that with my ex – she used to be extremnely lazy.. so I invented a scoiring system to get her to do stuff ihn the house… I could do a job and the rule was that SHE could give me a rating from one to ten for the job – say, clean a toilet, (10) or do kitty box (10)[2011/01/25 15:39]  Khannea Suntzu: Same would be for her, she do a job and I’d rate her[2011/01/25 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (personally, I’m old-fashioned and don’t agree that’s a proper method of educating kids; I mean, before the current batch of education “theories”; old-fashioned education produced Newton and Einstein, so…)[2011/01/25 15:39]  Khannea Suntzu: We gave it up with me being at +500 or so.[2011/01/25 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha[2011/01/25 15:40]  Khannea Suntzu: I always attract people even more lazy than me[2011/01/25 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think she loved you and just let you win :)[2011/01/25 15:40]  Ivy Sunkiller: haha[2011/01/25 15:40]  Extropia DaSilva: Yeah but Einstein famously rebelled against his education. To the extent that one teacher complained ‘the problem with you is, you simply will not be told anything!’.[2011/01/25 15:40]  Unnatural Magic: newton being the fellow that jabed a needle into the back of his eye and blieved in old alchemists theories no? :D[2011/01/25 15:41]  Extropia DaSilva: He was a nuclear physicist ahead of his time;)[2011/01/25 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So what, Unnatural? I’m sure half of the physics experts in our time are believers, or at least supersticious :)[2011/01/25 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I’ve met a few that are neither…. boooooring[2011/01/25 15:42]  Extropia DaSilva: :)[2011/01/25 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway…. turning everything into a “game” makes “competition” the key element of our (future) society,[2011/01/25 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I’m not so sure if that’s a good thing[2011/01/25 15:42]  Luisa Bourgoin: /me made a Lazy Machine[2011/01/25 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Competition is important, but it’s not the only ethical thing that is valuable.[2011/01/25 15:43]  Extropia DaSilva: What about cooperation? THat is a key component of a game as well, I would imagine?[2011/01/25 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm![2011/01/25 15:43]  Khannea Suntzu: Any scientists should at least be somewhat talented to seeing stray patterns… small step into superstition from there…[2011/01/25 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cooperating-for-earning-points is just disguising competition.[2011/01/25 15:43]  the lazy machine:  started program “working”[2011/01/25 15:43]  the lazy machine:  switched itself OFF[2011/01/25 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s like mmmh being “generous” with someone expecting something in return; that’s not pure altruism, just delayed expectations of getting gratification later :)[2011/01/25 15:44]  Khannea Suntzu: Pervert[2011/01/25 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: ?[2011/01/25 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh?[2011/01/25 15:44]  Khannea Suntzu: /me giggles[2011/01/25 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: One also wonders who would “run” this game… :)[2011/01/25 15:45]  Luisa Bourgoin: competition recently replaced cooperation[2011/01/25 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Governments? Corporations? Both solutions would scare me :D[2011/01/25 15:45]  Ivy Sunkiller: on Bryce’s talk I’ve suggested[2011/01/25 15:45]  Extropia DaSilva: why?[2011/01/25 15:45]  Khannea Suntzu: The libetarian in me is we’d subscribe to the ruleset we prefer and the game kinda floats in the middle[2011/01/25 15:45]  Ivy Sunkiller: that we should turn our society into an MMORPG[2011/01/25 15:45]  Ivy Sunkiller: where you gain experience for not being a complete idiot[2011/01/25 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The libertarian in me would refuse to play a game devised by anyone else but myself ;)[2011/01/25 15:45]  Ivy Sunkiller: and the higher level you gain, the more you have to say[2011/01/25 15:46]  Ivy Sunkiller: like, level 50 – you can vote[2011/01/25 15:46]  Khannea Suntzu: *damn this month Ivy’s rules are really popular!*[2011/01/25 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh Bryce read Heinlein![2011/01/25 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Speaking strictly for myself, I think that “turning life into a game” is good for societies with a pretty low moral stage (as proposed by Kohlberg); I prefer to enhance society’s values and education to push everybody into Level 5 ;)[2011/01/25 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (where people basically do things because it’s the best way to benefit others that way)[2011/01/25 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then again, being a realist, the more time passes, the lower our societies get on Kohlberg’s scale ;)[2011/01/25 15:49]  Luisa Bourgoin: game rules usually got designed, for beeing playable. reaching a goal, even[2011/01/25 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So perhaps it’s not such a bad idea. My question will just be: who decides on the rules? Who keeps track of the scoring? Who assigns benefits to the better players?[2011/01/25 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: What aspects of daily life do we think are best suited for incorporating a gamelike element?[2011/01/25 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Doing house chores![2011/01/25 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But you could do everything really, Extie…. “intracting with a neighbour (saying hi)” – 5 points[2011/01/25 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: (Is that our artcrash?)[2011/01/25 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *interacting even[2011/01/25 15:50]  ArtCrash Resident: HIYS – Better late than nevah[2011/01/25 15:50]  Alexi Flux: Business, commerce, banking, all good games[2011/01/25 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Art![2011/01/25 15:50]  Ivy Sunkiller: hoy hoy :)[2011/01/25 15:50]  ArtCrash Resident: Stealth ArtCrash here, my touring alt. ha ha[2011/01/25 15:51]  Khannea Suntzu: If games are made to engender entertanment, and provide pleasure, fine by me[2011/01/25 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Philip Linden used the Love Machine at Linden Lab, which was pretty much that…[2011/01/25 15:51]  Khannea Suntzu: I however like pluriform games where people can do whatever will alow them to win[2011/01/25 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: how did that work out?[2011/01/25 15:51]  Khannea Suntzu: However to find the niche that will alow them to do that may take a while[2011/01/25 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ha. You still need to ask, Extie? ㋡[2011/01/25 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Khannea, who would be those “them”? That’s basically my question :)[2011/01/25 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The rest are details really… we have the technology[2011/01/25 15:53]  Extropia DaSilva: well who or what would be best-placed to roll out the technology?[2011/01/25 15:53]  Khannea Suntzu: The people, Gwyn, you, me. I play the games where I can win, not the ones where I lose.[2011/01/25 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm! So those games wouldn’t be “mandatory”.[2011/01/25 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: In that case, the answer to Extie would be “mobile operators”[2011/01/25 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: “[2011/01/25 15:53]  ArtCrash Resident: Don’t people play games that challenge them? If they are too easy, they are boring.[2011/01/25 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: RL is too hard ㋡[2011/01/25 15:54]  Khannea Suntzu: The only mandatory thing is we all cooperate (and now Mistress will hit me) to make sure everyone gets a certain minimum of life’s requirements, like an existential insurance.[2011/01/25 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like that… existential insurance :)[2011/01/25 15:54]  Khannea Suntzu: Food, clothing, housing, education, medical insurance, batteries, SL[2011/01/25 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me pictures God writing a policy behind a counter[2011/01/25 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes. The ideal is a game slightly above your skill level, so you feel challenged but not hopelessly outmatched, or facing a walkover.[2011/01/25 15:54]  ArtCrash Resident: batteries… ha ha[2011/01/25 15:55]  Khannea Suntzu: As we speak, ArtCrash as we speak[2011/01/25 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So what would be the incentive to cooperate to provide that, Khannea? :)[2011/01/25 15:56]  ArtCrash Resident: do it or die[2011/01/25 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That pushes people to survive for themselves, Art; but there is no incentive to cooperate[2011/01/25 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless you mean, “cooperate, or we’ll kill yoU” :)[2011/01/25 15:57]  ArtCrash Resident: We cooperate all the time, it is called Culture. It is a built in coopoeration system for survival.[2011/01/25 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (which is not, strictly speaking, “cooperation” 🙂 )[2011/01/25 15:57]  Luisa Bourgoin: this “existential insurance” sems to be a genuine artificial product that humans invented. Life itself lacks it utterly[2011/01/25 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Buil-in?[2011/01/25 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *built[2011/01/25 15:57]  ArtCrash Resident: It is built before we enter it as individuals and we then adopt it, Gwyn[2011/01/25 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I look around myself, and only a very tiny slice of the people I know have any desire to cooperate if they don’t get anything in return… ㋡[2011/01/25 15:58]  Extropia DaSilva: But none of these kinds of co-operations are competitions need the new digital technology. It is just how societies are. So presumably this idea of mixing videogames and RL goes beyond these examples?[2011/01/25 15:58]  ArtCrash Resident: We don’t kill and ravage and rape and pillage, because it is in our interest to NOT do that. We COOPERATE using those rules and ideas.[2011/01/25 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: Or is it a new way to do the same old thing?[2011/01/25 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re an optimist, Art; that would be on a society with a very high moral level using Kohlberg’s scale; most people “cooperate” because, if they don’t, they lose benefits/get arrested/get fined[2011/01/25 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I see it just as a great incentive to buy latest-generation mobile phones with augmented reality apps in them which allow gaming at this scale :)[2011/01/25 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (that was to Extie’s question)[2011/01/25 16:00]  ArtCrash Resident: Do you stop at a stoplight, because you will be arrested if you don’t? Or do you stop because you have agreed that everyone stopping at lights is necessary for the system to work. I think B[2011/01/25 16:00]  Luisa Bourgoin: everybody has grown up into a cooperative world by now[2011/01/25 16:00]  Extropia DaSilva: Like the Dr says in Day Of The Dead, Gwyn: ‘Good behaviour has to be rewarded. Otherwise there is no use for it. No use at all’.[2011/01/25 16:00]  Luisa Bourgoin: it’s a habbit. we left the medieval ages[2011/01/25 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Imagine a retail network pushing “quests” every day to your phone to ask you to find items on their shops; the more items you find, the higher the score….[2011/01/25 16:01]  Luisa Bourgoin: so I guess it’s wrong to assume that everybody merely “cooperates” by force[2011/01/25 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie, I agree, that’s mainstream thinking — it’s all about incentives :)[2011/01/25 16:01]  ArtCrash Resident: We cooperate by adopting our various Cultures, for whatever reasons. But it is still a form of cooperation.[2011/01/25 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not saying “everybody”, Luisa. Just the majority of people I know; then again, parochial evidence does not always imply a valid statistical sample :)[2011/01/25 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (in fact, it rarely does)[2011/01/25 16:02]  Extropia DaSilva: There is this thing people jas a name but I forget it..whereby if you can convince X number of people on your social network to come to a specific venue, your party gets a big discount.[2011/01/25 16:02]  Khannea Suntzu: /me smiles[2011/01/25 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I might just be living in an island of die-hard egoists :)[2011/01/25 16:02]  ArtCrash Resident: We internalize our morality and our cultures. This is tacit cooperation. No enforcement needed.[2011/01/25 16:03]  Luisa Bourgoin: and how for did that socialized you, Gwyn?[2011/01/25 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Extie, I see that happening every day on Facebook… and long before that, in SL 🙂 So I see it as a good marketing ploy for RL business too[2011/01/25 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I rebelled against it, Luisa :)[2011/01/25 16:04]  ArtCrash Resident: Haven’t you found that interacting with people in a positive and cooperative manner is more successful of a strategy than sociopathic backstabbing and gameplaying? Anyone who is successful at business knows this is true.[2011/01/25 16:04]  Luisa Bourgoin: “no man is an island” (thinking Jon Bon Jovi said that)[2011/01/25 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: AndI hope you’re right at a large scale, Art[2011/01/25 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because I could count off the businesspersons I know that have realised what you say on my fingers…. and still have a few fingers left[2011/01/25 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Probably, uh, about nine :)[2011/01/25 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: … left[2011/01/25 16:05]  Extropia DaSilva: They may not say it explicity, but do they practice it implicitly?[2011/01/25 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’m glad that I’m the only one having a bad experience :)[2011/01/25 16:06]  ArtCrash Resident: Let me restate that our ‘rules of cooperation’ are the basic cultural mores of the societies where we live. Culture is cooperative because it is a successful strategy. The motivatiof why we do this otherwise is irrelevant.[2011/01/25 16:06]  Luisa Bourgoin: oooh bussines doublespeak :)[2011/01/25 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It sure shows that you shouldn’t take your world-view as granted :)[2011/01/25 16:06]  Extropia DaSilva: You are the only one who works Gwyn.[2011/01/25 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nah lol[2011/01/25 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: I reckon. We indulge our hobbies and passion, but you have Beta technologies to run. Sounds like work to me.[2011/01/25 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And it’s interesting, Art, because it’s on cultural organisations where I see the backstabbing, opponent-poisoning, and so forth, practiced at a scale that would make Machiavelli blush :)[2011/01/25 16:08]  ArtCrash Resident: Cultural mores are all over the map and contradictory when seen in relation to different cultures, BUT they all have one thing in common: mass adoption by cooperation.[2011/01/25 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh Extie; Beta is just one of my three current companies… ;)[2011/01/25 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: what are the other two then?[2011/01/25 16:09]  ArtCrash Resident: I am allowing for the possibility of cooperative backstabbing too Gwyn! ha ha[2011/01/25 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh — I’m immersionist enough to keep a lid on those ;)[2011/01/25 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Art :-)[2011/01/25 16:09]  Luisa Bourgoin: probably LL and a 3rd one[2011/01/25 16:09]  Extropia DaSilva: It shall have to remain an enigma, I guess.[2011/01/25 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh no, Luisa — lol[2011/01/25 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Trust me, if I had any stake at LL, they wouldn’t be running the way they do .-)[2011/01/25 16:10]  ArtCrash Resident: I know I’m an enima, being the alt of an alt of an alt… ha ha[2011/01/25 16:10]  ArtCrash Resident: enigma[2011/01/25 16:10]  ArtCrash Resident: haha[2011/01/25 16:10]  ArtCrash Resident: enema too[2011/01/25 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL[2011/01/25 16:10]  Extropia DaSilva: Gwyn, how dependent is Beta on SL?[2011/01/25 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, 95%[2011/01/25 16:10]  Luisa Bourgoin: we talk much about scales. or statistics[2011/01/25 16:10]  Luisa Bourgoin: we need an open scale for reliably measuring “blunder”[2011/01/25 16:11]  ArtCrash Resident: I love this saying: “60 percent of statistics are made up on the spot” ha ha[2011/01/25 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I love that too ;)[2011/01/25 16:11]  ArtCrash Resident: you can fill in the number as you see fit.[2011/01/25 16:11]  Luisa Bourgoin: there is an overall, total statistic for statistic’s reliability?[2011/01/25 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: … and I didn’t answer “100%” because I’m not 100% sure that OpenSim will survive if SL folds. So… 95% sounds about right, for a on-the-spot made-up statistic :)[2011/01/25 16:11]  Arisia Vita: Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. – Aaron Levenstein[2011/01/25 16:12]  Luisa Bourgoin: …that would probably turn out wrong with 50%[2011/01/25 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: ooooh[2011/01/25 16:12]  ArtCrash Resident: Yes, Luisa, that is statistically impossible…. heh[2011/01/25 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ari, you’re certainly the expert on bikinis!!! haha[2011/01/25 16:12]  Extropia DaSilva: …oh yes?[2011/01/25 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or perhaps he’s an expert on statistics ;)[2011/01/25 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: What does he meet them with? Silent aproval?[2011/01/25 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *snickers* and remains silent.[2011/01/25 16:13]  ArtCrash Resident: SL bikinis are never quite ‘right’. Sculpting needed[2011/01/25 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: *Pats Ari’s knee* just teasing, we love you![2011/01/25 16:13]  Arisia Vita: ty…[2011/01/25 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: They fit far better than RL bikinis, Art ;)[2011/01/25 16:14]  Extropia DaSilva: I think it is the bodies beneath that are better.[2011/01/25 16:14]  ArtCrash Resident: Except you have to be careful with the amount of material in the nether regions…. ha ha[2011/01/25 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, see, taht would be an excellent marketing RL game… “find a bikini that fits — 10 points”[2011/01/25 16:14]  Luisa Bourgoin: they fit better when getting wet, btw[2011/01/25 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh[2011/01/25 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I have yet to find a shop that allows them to try them on wet :)[2011/01/25 16:15]  ArtCrash Resident: I am clothing challenged myself. I need to get some more clothes ….. AND a bikini[2011/01/25 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me makes notes for a novel fashion chain — “Wet Bikinis — Try them here!”[2011/01/25 16:15]  Khannea Suntzu: No I will no make any crappy bikini jokes[2011/01/25 16:15]  ArtCrash Resident: Hey that would be a good scripted clothing idea, touch for ‘wet’ bathing suit look.[2011/01/25 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sure we would need to fence it out and hire sharpshooters to keep the guys at bay….[2011/01/25 16:15]  Khannea Suntzu: Oh shit that was one[2011/01/25 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol[2011/01/25 16:16]  Extropia DaSilva: In Sl if you fall below a certain altitude you are almost always in water. So you could maybe have a script that works out when you are below the critical point, and then when you rise above it, and then alter your hair and clothes so you look like you fell into the sea.[2011/01/25 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But seriously… and back to the topic…. I really do see a LOT of marketing potential for those kinds of games[2011/01/25 16:16]  Luisa Bourgoin: we really trailed of, didn’t we?[2011/01/25 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: We did :)[2011/01/25 16:17]  ArtCrash Resident: What about places like the sky ocean that is on this very sim?[2011/01/25 16:17]  Luisa Bourgoin: Extie, that would require viewer extensions like RLV[2011/01/25 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: In fact, I’m not sure why people in SL haven’t done more things exactly like that, where it’s really easy to do so[2011/01/25 16:17]  Extropia DaSilva: What about the famous apps? How many apps for that do we currently have?[2011/01/25 16:17]  ArtCrash Resident: There is an ocean at 3900 meters here btw.[2011/01/25 16:17]  Extropia DaSilva: I mean in terms of the topic.[2011/01/25 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What are “famous apps”?[2011/01/25 16:17]  Extropia DaSilva: YOu no Apple.[2011/01/25 16:17]  ArtCrash Resident: I love how Apple has adopted the term Apps[2011/01/25 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *scratches head*[2011/01/25 16:18]  Extropia DaSilva: ‘you want to turn your life into a mixed-reality game? There is an app for that!’.[2011/01/25 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Google too, Art…[2011/01/25 16:18]  ArtCrash Resident: I mean Apple pretends to have invented the term[2011/01/25 16:18]  Luisa Bourgoin: special screwdrivers supplied?[2011/01/25 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Apple has invented Apps? Hmm :)[2011/01/25 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps because “applets” were already taken?[2011/01/25 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *grins*[2011/01/25 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, I didn’t understand what you meant, Extie 😦 Sorry. What are “famous apps”?[2011/01/25 16:19]  Luisa Bourgoin: folks? back on toppic?[2011/01/25 16:19]  Luisa Bourgoin: …wherever we had been[2011/01/25 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Apps that gather you fame?[2011/01/25 16:19]  Khannea Suntzu: Yes please bunch of undisciplined losers, topic[2011/01/25 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Apps that allow you to recognise famous people?[2011/01/25 16:20]  ArtCrash Resident: Topic switchers must be punished severely.[2011/01/25 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *snickers*[2011/01/25 16:20]  Luisa Bourgoin: /me nods[2011/01/25 16:20]  ArtCrash Resident: /me prepares to accept the worst[2011/01/25 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, well, I can also imagine some educational use for those games… like having kids search for historical landmarks and such[2011/01/25 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: do that as part of their homework…[2011/01/25 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: Well Gwyn. There is this device known as the iphone. also, one known as the iPad. They both run applications, or ‘apps’ for short, which can be anything from a full-blown game to a virtual spirit level to something that tells you where the best restraaunt that sells low-salt food is.[2011/01/25 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure… and what was your point?[2011/01/25 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That those things already exist?[2011/01/25 16:22]  Luisa Bourgoin: landmarks, and including historical facts about that place, serverd as common phone compatible .wap pages[2011/01/25 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: Just wondering if they do.[2011/01/25 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t know of any, but surely they would be very easy to create[2011/01/25 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And right, Luisa[2011/01/25 16:23]  ArtCrash Resident: Uh oh, I just realized I have an deadline for a show tonight…… whoops. No problem! I have till 12 slt![2011/01/25 16:23]  ArtCrash Resident: They are like a subscript Extie. Those humans are so lame.[2011/01/25 16:23]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh you want me to close the discussion early, Art?[2011/01/25 16:23]  ArtCrash Resident: what?[2011/01/25 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aw :)[2011/01/25 16:23]  ArtCrash Resident: nevah![2011/01/25 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: We still have 11h and 37 minutes until Art has to go :)[2011/01/25 16:24]  ArtCrash Resident: ha ha[2011/01/25 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: ㋡[2011/01/25 16:24]  Luisa Bourgoin: how about sleep?[2011/01/25 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s optional :)[2011/01/25 16:24]  Nawlins Streeter: not allowed unless you have an app for sleep[2011/01/25 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL[2011/01/25 16:24]  Luisa Bourgoin: …I don’t like *these* game rules (!)[2011/01/25 16:24]  Extropia DaSilva: I called ‘apps’ famous because there is always an advert on TV about them, and I see lots of articles and essays about ‘apps and the prevelance of mobile phone technology will change everything incvluding ourselves!’.[2011/01/25 16:25]  ArtCrash Resident: I create best when under pressure…. well no I actually don’t…. but it sounds good when I say it.[2011/01/25 16:25]  Luisa Bourgoin: mobiles! mobiles !!! …. biggest marketing hype[2011/01/25 16:25]  Nawlins Streeter: or tool to organize our lives[2011/01/25 16:25]  Extropia DaSilva: Remember how ‘web.2.0 was the big thing? Now it is ‘the cloud’.[2011/01/25 16:25]  Luisa Bourgoin: they exists since years. sure there had been changes. but these look quite different[2011/01/25 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, mobile operators are always paing journalists to write things that will make more peopl use their networks :)[2011/01/25 16:26]  Nawlins Streeter: but don’t we have a choice as to which apps?[2011/01/25 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The irony for me is that teh more they hype “mobile technology”, the less I use my mobile phone lol[2011/01/25 16:26]  ArtCrash Resident: I know, let’s make tiny devices with low graphics and slow processors that are hard to read and then put primitive programs on them! We’ll make zillions![2011/01/25 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: You can even choose not to buy an Apple phone or computer.[2011/01/25 16:27]  Nawlins Streeter: /me is a Droid[2011/01/25 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I would find a scoring system interesting where I’d get some discounts on hops if I completed certain “quests”. As a marketing ploy, i can see this work very well :)[2011/01/25 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Art — right :)[2011/01/25 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *shops[2011/01/25 16:27]  Extropia DaSilva: Remember that game ‘barcode battler’?[2011/01/25 16:27]  Nawlins Streeter: or for us anti-advertisng people another way to dodge the ad[2011/01/25 16:27]  Luisa Bourgoin: art, you got a point … seemingly, industry reacted by calling them “smart” now and improving specs[2011/01/25 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No! What is that, Extie?[2011/01/25 16:27]  Khannea Suntzu: Education… without any doubt the future of gaming and education and raising those damn kids is MMO’s[2011/01/25 16:28]  Khannea Suntzu: Lock em up in a bubble, they cant get out unless they finished their maths instance[2011/01/25 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Khannea 🙂 They’ll get some useful skills for their later lives, where they will spend even more time playing MMOs :)[2011/01/25 16:28]  Nawlins Streeter: or allow them to flourish at their own pace through technology?[2011/01/25 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unlike TV, which requires no skills…[2011/01/25 16:29]  Luisa Bourgoin: what?! TV enforces skills[2011/01/25 16:29]  Nawlins Streeter: how to be bored in public?[2011/01/25 16:29]  Luisa Bourgoin: where do you thing everybody of us learned dodging advertisements?[2011/01/25 16:29]  Extropia DaSilva: It was like Pokemon, only the game would create your creature based on the numbers on a barcode, which you took a snapshot of with the phone’s camera.[2011/01/25 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: you don’t need a skill to click on a button :)[2011/01/25 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh that’s a nice idea, Extie![2011/01/25 16:29]  ArtCrash Resident: But you do need skill to reset the clock! ha ha[2011/01/25 16:29]  ArtCrash Resident: That is two buttons[2011/01/25 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, I guess that future TVs, since they’re connected to the Internet anyway, will set their clocks automatically anyway[2011/01/25 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: One minute left! Top score to the person who comes up with the best concluding statement, as judged by me.[2011/01/25 16:30]  ArtCrash Resident: ha ha[2011/01/25 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Extie — right![2011/01/25 16:30]  Nawlins Streeter: streaming information as we speak, hahahaha[2011/01/25 16:30]  ArtCrash Resident: Gwyn is Smart, but Exties is the Smartest![2011/01/25 16:30]  ArtCrash Resident: Do I win?[2011/01/25 16:30]  Luisa Bourgoin: by flattering?[2011/01/25 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I conclude that as a marketing ploy and for some educational use, “games”, “scores”, or “quests” embedded as applications on a mobile phone will become very successful.[2011/01/25 16:31]  Khannea Suntzu: 16:31]  Extropia DaSilva: No it was off topic![2011/01/25 16:31]  ArtCrash Resident: /me sighs[2011/01/25 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Too many rules in this game! :)[2011/01/25 16:31]  Extropia DaSilva: OK and the clear winner is…me. Impartiality? what is that?[2011/01/25 16:31]  Khannea Suntzu: And it will be acutely marketable. If all of them produce falsifiable resulst we can have MANY competing edugames compete[2011/01/25 16:31]  ArtCrash Resident: I conclude that Gwyn won’t cooperate[2011/01/25 16:32]  Luisa Bourgoin: my suggestion for global phone exosphere would be raisingsome more tech level before proceeding with world changing promises[2011/01/25 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Art[2011/01/25 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I agree, Khannea. Totally[2011/01/25 16:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’ll get there, Luisa — create a demand, market it, and people will buy “smarter” phones ;)[2011/01/25 16:33]  Extropia DaSilva: OK my time is up! Final score Gwyn 2300 words, Artcrash 2345 words, me 226 words, Khannea and Ivy tie with 210 words everyone else nil.[2011/01/25 16:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: you’re making that up, Extie! haha[2011/01/25 16:33]  Luisa Bourgoin: will take some time, by mere number of old phones floating arround. the markets are saturated[2011/01/25 16:33]  ArtCrash Resident: We will soon all be connected by our implanted nead chips and phones be damned![2011/01/25 16:34]  Nawlins Streeter: and its 70% accurate[2011/01/25 16:34]  Ivy Sunkiller: haha[2011/01/25 16:34]  Nawlins Streeter: hahah[2011/01/25 16:34]  Extropia DaSilva: Did not! It is based on statistics! The 60% ones![2011/01/25 16:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Voodoo :)[2011/01/25 16:34]  ArtCrash Resident: WE ARE BORG[2011/01/25 16:34]  Luisa Bourgoin: resistance is *nerver* futile[2011/01/25 16:34]  Nawlins Streeter: /me is still Droid[2011/01/25 16:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh I red a science fiction story with that theme a decade or more ago, Art[2011/01/25 16:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: sadly it’s not translated into English, but it was fun .)[2011/01/25 16:34]  Extropia DaSilva: Now NEXT WEEK if I am not the only one here, the topic will be hard to defend…[2011/01/25 16:35]  Khannea Suntzu: 16:35]  Extropia DaSilva: SOLIPSISM…

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