THINKERS AUGUST 24 2010: WHY DID THEY BURY AND BURN?

[2010/08/24 15:31]  Extropia DaSilva: Welcome to Thinkers!
[2010/08/24 15:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you 🙂 I feel welcomed 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2010/08/24 15:32]  Extropia DaSilva: The topic this week is called WHY DID THEY BURY AND BURN?
[2010/08/24 15:32]  Extropia DaSilva: If our descendents succeed in reviving cyronically-preserved people, will they regard burying or burning the dead as barbaric practices that denied people the right to life?
[2010/08/24 15:32]  Judith Underwood: a just can’ty sit down
[2010/08/24 15:32]  Judith Underwood: ever
[2010/08/24 15:33]  Zobeid Zuma: Hi Scarp!
[2010/08/24 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: Personally I think cryonics, full body cryonics I should say, is selfish.
[2010/08/24 15:33]  Scarp Godenot: Pizza!
[2010/08/24 15:33]  Judith Underwood: good god scarp
[2010/08/24 15:33]  Judith Underwood: give us a drink
[2010/08/24 15:33]  Extropia DaSilva: Mine is with extra Mozarrello.
[2010/08/24 15:33]  Camilla Delvalle: No, burning corpses is essential to avoiding zombie apocalypse.
[2010/08/24 15:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I have to say that I have no opinions today! 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:34]  Scarp Godenot: pizza
[2010/08/24 15:34]  Rigrun Torok: I think the only sensible purpose of cryonically-preserved people would be to enable long distance space/time travel to colonize distant planets and don’t believe there would be any thought one way or the other about previous burial practices.
[2010/08/24 15:34]  Scarp Godenot: pizza!
[2010/08/24 15:34]  Judith Underwood: drunk too
[2010/08/24 15:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That pizza must be special!
[2010/08/24 15:34]  Judith Underwood: hm
[2010/08/24 15:34]  Scarp Godenot: stop
[2010/08/24 15:34]  Zobeid Zuma: The topic introductions are starting to sound like headlines off Drudge Report.
[2010/08/24 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh you read it too, Zo?
[2010/08/24 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: looking towards the past, I guess that we always look at what our ancestors did and classify it as barbaric…
[2010/08/24 15:35]  Zobeid Zuma: Yeh. . . It’s my dependable source of sensational yellow journalism.
[2010/08/24 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eating pizza like Scarp does is *definitely* going to be considered barbaric in the future…
[2010/08/24 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2010/08/24 15:36]  Scarp Godenot: ha ha
[2010/08/24 15:36]  Camilla Delvalle: I wonder if not cryonics will be considered barbaric in a near future when medical science has advanced so much that death will only come from accidents and suicide.
[2010/08/24 15:36]  Rigrun Torok: ahhem i say again
[2010/08/24 15:36]  Rigrun Torok: I think the only sensible purpose of cryonically-preserved people would be to enable long distance space/time travel to colonize distant planets and don’t believe there would be any thought one way or the other about previous burial practices.
[2010/08/24 15:36]  Judith Underwood: lol
[2010/08/24 15:36]  Graine Macbain: Like mummification, in a sense.
[2010/08/24 15:37]  Camilla Delvalle: Yes it could be used for space travel.
[2010/08/24 15:37]  Scarp Godenot: /me (was just at an art opening where several of us were dancing around shouting pizza!)
[2010/08/24 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hehe)
[2010/08/24 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder where we’ll store all those people then… 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess in space…
[2010/08/24 15:37]  Rigrun Torok: In olden days death was just a door way to another world what ever it may be or was and their practices were just part of their culture; for instance we don’t consider the Egyptians to be barbaric because they disemboweled and preserved their dead using horrific instruments; so why would we think our descendants would think harshly of us?
[2010/08/24 15:37]  Camilla Delvalle: Yes Gwyneth, it’s cold in space.
[2010/08/24 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Quite 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:38]  Scarp Godenot: Thaw them out and dump them! There are too many people already!
[2010/08/24 15:38]  Rigrun Torok: I think in the future very few will be revived maybe a president or the founder ‘of something’ and they would throw the rest (masses of frozen people) to the waste disposal site because nobody needs them period.
[2010/08/24 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: Well…forget the expense for a moment, is it possible to preserve everyone dying? How much liquid nitrogen is there to go around? And centers like Alcor are not exactly on every street corner.
[2010/08/24 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, we’ll have an orbit junkyard and graveyard….
[2010/08/24 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like Camilla said… it’s cold in space, Extie
[2010/08/24 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can just orbit them.
[2010/08/24 15:38]  Khannea Suntzu: Phooh piles of slowly thawing sacks of lardy old far people piled mountains high dumped in landfills
[2010/08/24 15:38]  Khannea Suntzu: fat
[2010/08/24 15:38]  Graine Macbain: Mayeb we can store them on asteroids.
[2010/08/24 15:39]  Extropia DaSilva: No you cannot just orbit them.
[2010/08/24 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh? Why not?
[2010/08/24 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d love to point to the sky in the night and say to my kids, “look, that’s your grandpa”
[2010/08/24 15:39]  Extropia DaSilva: The whole point is to preserve the body. Not stick it where cosmic radiation can blast it to mush:)
[2010/08/24 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s sort of romantic 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
[2010/08/24 15:39]  Scarp Godenot: When their orbits degrade they will make great meteorites!
[2010/08/24 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[2010/08/24 15:39]  Luisa Bourgoin: I see … frozen people!
[2010/08/24 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Haven’t we fixed cosmic radiation yet?
[2010/08/24 15:40]  Extropia DaSilva: Well no.
[2010/08/24 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess not.
[2010/08/24 15:40]  Luisa Bourgoin: does radiation affect frozen meat?
[2010/08/24 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we can freeze people and thaw them?
[2010/08/24 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess not, either.
[2010/08/24 15:40]  Camilla Delvalle: I’m sure they will find a way to solve the problem.
[2010/08/24 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, it follows that *when* we can freeze & thaw them, we will know what to do with cosmic radiation 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2010/08/24 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me loves twisted logic
[2010/08/24 15:40]  Sami Faith: what about if the way of dealing with dead people is religeous
[2010/08/24 15:40]  Luisa Bourgoin: freeze & thaw, and living again
[2010/08/24 15:40]  Sami Faith: like hindu
[2010/08/24 15:41]  Scarp Godenot: three cheers for the magnetic field! Our savior!
[2010/08/24 15:41]  Judith Underwood: an interesting thing is that the closer to the moment of death they can begin the process the better the outcome
[2010/08/24 15:41]  Judith Underwood: therefore
[2010/08/24 15:41]  Judith Underwood: could they begin BEFORE deah etically
[2010/08/24 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well that’s the point, Sami… cremation would be “barbaric” under Extie’s assumption.
[2010/08/24 15:41]  Judith Underwood: ethically
[2010/08/24 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, judith! I could get frozen *today* 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:41]  Sunfire Langer: g’day
[2010/08/24 15:41]  Camilla Delvalle: Yes of course they should frezze them before death.
[2010/08/24 15:41]  Judith Underwood: they can do it now
[2010/08/24 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Start with our politicians… 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:42]  Zobeid Zuma: There are huge obstacles to prevent people from being frozen in large numbers today. Surely those looking back on us with historical perspective will realize that too.
[2010/08/24 15:42]  Camilla Delvalle: After death the brain quickly degenerates.
[2010/08/24 15:42]  Judith Underwood: but would be slaughtered
[2010/08/24 15:42]  Scarp Godenot: Which hollywood stars would you preserve?
[2010/08/24 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless they’re too dumbed from exceess TV, Zo … 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:42]  Graine Macbain: But what is the guarantee that when they thaw, they will be functional?
[2010/08/24 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No guarantees!
[2010/08/24 15:42]  Extropia DaSilva: OH well, if you want to think long term this whole topic is moot, because our most distant descendents will resurrect us all, using information encoded in photons converging on the final big crunch of the universe, whose warped spacetime is used to run an infinitely powerful computer. We all get resurrected in the Omega Point. FRank Tippler says so!
[2010/08/24 15:42]  Judith Underwood: now only the rich get it
[2010/08/24 15:42]  Sunfire Langer: What nutriets would the brain need to survive and could these be supplied artificially, Camilla?
[2010/08/24 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh nice, Extie!
[2010/08/24 15:43]  Camilla Delvalle: We could freeze down some people now to combat overpopulation. And transfer them to underpopulated time period.
[2010/08/24 15:43]  Judith Underwood: cool
[2010/08/24 15:43]  Luisa Bourgoin: fully functional .. imagine 1st row of success cases would merely reach half recovery state
[2010/08/24 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, freezing and time travel.
[2010/08/24 15:43]  Graine Macbain: Yes, wouldn’t unused brain cells degenerate?
[2010/08/24 15:44]  Zobeid Zuma: /me just over heard something on the TV news. . . “record low levels of common sense” 😀
[2010/08/24 15:44]  Camilla Delvalle: Sunfire, I think oxygen is the most important thing for the brain, to begin with.
[2010/08/24 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: Here is why I think cryonics is selfish. Necause it offers the very very slim hope that ONE person may be revived. On the other hand, if that body had donated its organs, perhaps many people would gain a better quality of life TODAY.
[2010/08/24 15:44]  Scarp Godenot: We could freeze Lindsay Lohan and bring her back when her type is the normal human average!
[2010/08/24 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Zo
[2010/08/24 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aww Extie. So well put.
[2010/08/24 15:44]  Sunfire Langer: so if usage is necessary for preservation, why not include a simulator as part of the presrvation process, Graine?
[2010/08/24 15:44]  Judith Underwood: good point extie
[2010/08/24 15:45]  Extropia DaSilva: I got told off by my wife for saying that. Good job she is not here.
[2010/08/24 15:45]  Zobeid Zuma: It also requires money, which could instead be given to charity. But then. . . That would apply to a Ferrari too. :/
[2010/08/24 15:45]  Graine Macbain: I don’t know Sunfire, I was more concerned wiht the oranic product in my question because i don’t understand how frozen brain cells can be revivied to function properly.
[2010/08/24 15:45]  Camilla Delvalle: Yes I agree that cryonics seems selfish.
[2010/08/24 15:45]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: what would she have argued, Extie? 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:45]  Scarp Godenot: When you really think about it, who is so valuable that they are worth preserving? Not many that I can think of……
[2010/08/24 15:45]  Sunfire Langer: yea, if we’re being shrew, opulennce goes first, Zobeid
[2010/08/24 15:45]  Extropia DaSilva: Who am I to say what is selfish? Who am I to dictate what somebody does with her body?
[2010/08/24 15:45]  Zobeid Zuma: People do a lot of selfish things in our society, that are accepted. So just calling it “selfish” is a weak criticism.
[2010/08/24 15:45]  Sunfire Langer: shrewd*
[2010/08/24 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ahhh Scarp… I think that the question is a fallacy. Of course, from everybody’s perception, *they* are the most important persons in the world to be preserved 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:46]  Luisa Bourgoin: ouch! next centuries, they will just thaw the organs needed for transplantation from the current frozen stock
[2010/08/24 15:46]  Graine Macbain: It’s obviously selfish, but is it practical?
[2010/08/24 15:46]  Judith Underwood: they are very close to that now luisa
[2010/08/24 15:46]  Sunfire Langer: Why is it immoral to want to not have your moment of death decide for you?
[2010/08/24 15:46]  Scarp Godenot: Part of what keeps us safe as a race is that despots who gain massive power are subject to death. Death is a survival mechanism for the race.
[2010/08/24 15:46]  Camilla Delvalle: I did not critique the practice. That it is selfish was just a statement.
[2010/08/24 15:46]  Luisa Bourgoin: …that would make a selfish case … almost …
[2010/08/24 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: They’re even close to get organs to rebuild themselves using staminal cells… so we won’t need those frozen organs
[2010/08/24 15:47]  Extropia DaSilva: If you take my thinking to an extreme, you could say one person healthy person visiting a hospital should volunteer to die and have his organs harvested, if several people on the waiting list or a match.
[2010/08/24 15:47]  Judith Underwood: yes gwyn
[2010/08/24 15:47]  Extropia DaSilva: *are.
[2010/08/24 15:47]  Sunfire Langer: If it was all voluntary what could be the objection, Extropia?
[2010/08/24 15:48]  Luisa Bourgoin: we need a database for all people (‘s organs…)
[2010/08/24 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2010/08/24 15:48]  Camilla Delvalle: Scarp, I have also thought about the good thing with despots dying of old age.
[2010/08/24 15:48]  Graine Macbain: would it perhaps be more likely that isntead of reviving near dead meat we could put our perosnalities into androids or some other artificial life form?
[2010/08/24 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: nah, I think that short-term we’ll just rebuild organs, it’s easier, safer, cheaper, and has less complications.
[2010/08/24 15:48]  Sunfire Langer: I like that plan, Graine
[2010/08/24 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: What would be do with zillions of androids on Earth? 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:48]  Judith Underwood: i like that better too graine
[2010/08/24 15:48]  Graine Macbain: Despots should never be allowed to live to old age, cryonics or not…
[2010/08/24 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah… wait… and THEN send the androids into space?
[2010/08/24 15:49]  Judith Underwood: we would populate the solar system
[2010/08/24 15:49]  Judith Underwood: mad with power
[2010/08/24 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: right!
[2010/08/24 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes, Graine. A lot of cryonics talk is of slicing up the preserved brain, and running it on some future Blue Brain emulation or something.
[2010/08/24 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[2010/08/24 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with that 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:49]  Graine Macbain: Yes, I don’t think extrasolar space travel is feasibel for mamamls.
[2010/08/24 15:49]  Camilla Delvalle: Sometimes waiting for despots to die of old age is the least expensive way to deal with them.
[2010/08/24 15:49]  Graine Macbain: sorry for the typing
[2010/08/24 15:49]  Extropia DaSilva: Ah we all speak typo here in SL.
[2010/08/24 15:50]  Zobeid Zuma: You can fax the mammals to another star and recreate them there. . . if for some reason you wanted to. Which you probably wouldn’t.
[2010/08/24 15:50]  Sunfire Langer: But the personalities would not need physical space, they could operate entirely in cyberspace and occassionally take one of the machine/cyborg/biomachine ‘vehicles’, Gwyneth
[2010/08/24 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: even better, Sunfire!
[2010/08/24 15:50]  Graine Macbain: I meant human mamals…LOL
[2010/08/24 15:50]  Zobeid Zuma: I did too.
[2010/08/24 15:50]  Graine Macbain: I think the other mamals would eb well rid of us…
[2010/08/24 15:50]  Judith Underwood: hmmmm reminds me of the later Dune novels
[2010/08/24 15:50]  Camilla Delvalle: Graine, to put the mind into a cyborg would also be expensive, and probably only for the rich.
[2010/08/24 15:51]  Scarp Godenot: What is a “personality” anyway? The closer you look, the less you find. Just a bunch of interations referring to memory…..
[2010/08/24 15:51]  Camilla Delvalle: Or maybe not.
[2010/08/24 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes. Encoded as efficiently as possible, the mass of one human body could support the equivilent of many trillions of human civilizations, running as software emulations.
[2010/08/24 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear, Scarp 😉
[2010/08/24 15:51]  Luisa Bourgoin: that re-creation or artificial life creation offers possibilities far bejond manufactoring mere colies of former people
[2010/08/24 15:51]  Graine Macbain: well, then immortality must be only for the rich in every case?
[2010/08/24 15:51]  Sunfire Langer: You’d just need a reliable transmitter, the bioware could exist remotely, Camilla
[2010/08/24 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: at first, sure, Graine 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: No we are all immortal, provided mainstream cosmology and quantum physics is broadly correct.
[2010/08/24 15:51]  Camilla Delvalle: Well, maybe the techniques will be very unexpensive in the future so that everyone can do it.
[2010/08/24 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: then it’ll be cheaply produced in China, and available from every hair salon in the planet…
[2010/08/24 15:52]  Judith Underwood: lol gwyn hahaha
[2010/08/24 15:52]  Graine Macbain: LOL
[2010/08/24 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: Well…what if it actually remains expensive for all but the rich?
[2010/08/24 15:52]  Luisa Bourgoin: cyborg beeings would make good workers
[2010/08/24 15:52]  Ataraxia Azemus: Immortality for all has the teensy problem of space.
[2010/08/24 15:52]  Sunfire Langer: I think social insurrection to override control/wealth structures will come before immortality does, but thats just a temporal footnote, not an intended tangent, Extropia
[2010/08/24 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is a lot of space outside Earth 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:52]  Extropia DaSilva: The universe is quite big.
[2010/08/24 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:52]  Judith Underwood: can you imagine some god awful lottery or something
[2010/08/24 15:52]  Scarp Godenot: Immortality requires no reproduction….. heh
[2010/08/24 15:52]  Zobeid Zuma: We shall be reborn as robotrons!
[2010/08/24 15:52]  Ataraxia Azemus: Space has the teensy problem of being uninabitable :p
[2010/08/24 15:52]  Graine Macbain: Michael Harrington spoke of that in his book on Immortality.
[2010/08/24 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not for androids!
[2010/08/24 15:53]  Camilla Delvalle: Gwyneth, uploading in hair salons. 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:53]  Sunfire Langer: It does in case of accidental death, Scarp
[2010/08/24 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, Camilla!
[2010/08/24 15:53]  Extropia DaSilva: Also, if they are uploads, and we have computronium, you could pack many many civilizations into a computer the size of a grain of rice.
[2010/08/24 15:53]  Ataraxia Azemus: Oh, I missed the androids. That’s what I get for showing up late.
[2010/08/24 15:53]  Extropia DaSilva: Easily.
[2010/08/24 15:53]  Sunfire Langer: /me marks Ataraxia down 😉
[2010/08/24 15:53]  Graine Macbain: The immortality only for the rich could result in a planet wide revolt
[2010/08/24 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: … that’s why some of my SF stories are usually so weird…. I put all those insanely advanced technologies available for a few dollars on hair salons 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:53]  Ataraxia Azemus: Sun :p
[2010/08/24 15:54]  Scarp Godenot: /me buys stock in computronium
[2010/08/24 15:54]  Luisa Bourgoin: all assumptions going into directions of growth, in population numbers
[2010/08/24 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Hi Mrs Trudy, do you wish to get a new rejuvenation? We got them cheap today”
[2010/08/24 15:54]  Graine Macbain: A sort of French Revolution on the global scale.
[2010/08/24 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me loves that scenario
[2010/08/24 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: With guillotines? 😉
[2010/08/24 15:54]  Camilla Delvalle: I think I’d love your stories Gwyn.
[2010/08/24 15:54]  Zobeid Zuma: My computronium mine will be worth a fortune! (Not like that tapioca mine. . . It was such a bust.)
[2010/08/24 15:54]  Sunfire Langer: The planets equilibrium will only support so much life at a time, Luisa
[2010/08/24 15:54]  Fael Innovia: meep! 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: Do we think, if our cryonically preserved patients are ever revived, they would be able to function in that society?
[2010/08/24 15:54]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sl takes away all my time for them, Camilla 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:54]  Sunfire Langer: and only on certain requisites
[2010/08/24 15:54]  Scarp Godenot: Just how long can you keep criminal immortals in prison anyway?
[2010/08/24 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Depends, Extropia — how long before they get unthawed? 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:55]  Extropia DaSilva: Fael! Oh wow hello dear!
[2010/08/24 15:55]  Graine Macbain: Perhaps they would have to be executed then…
[2010/08/24 15:55]  Graine Macbain: if they were murderers
[2010/08/24 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Scarp, after a few million years, everything would crumble to dust anyway, so the prisioners would just have to wait a bit.
[2010/08/24 15:55]  Zobeid Zuma: I’d be able to function in that society and probably still complaining about when is the next breakthrough coming.
[2010/08/24 15:55]  Ataraxia Azemus: Oh, Scarp. What a horrible fate…to be immortal with a life sentence.
[2010/08/24 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[2010/08/24 15:55]  Scarp Godenot: I love the word execute. It is so clean. I prefer murdered.
[2010/08/24 15:55]  Sunfire Langer: If their crime was bad enough to warrant our current ‘life’ sentence, it would be a short move to go to destroying that person, Scarp
[2010/08/24 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: excellent stuff for a story!!!
[2010/08/24 15:56]  Graine Macbain: Maybe there would be some way of rehabilitating them on the genetic level by then?
[2010/08/24 15:56]  Sunfire Langer: ay as well, why waste the food?
[2010/08/24 15:56]  Graine Macbain: Like a successful Clockwork Orange scenario.
[2010/08/24 15:56]  Extropia DaSilva: Well, if you believe accelerationists, we are not far away from a time when we will witness more change in an hour than has occurred in the last 100,000 years. So revived patients from the year 1990 or something might be a bit unable to cope?
[2010/08/24 15:56]  Scarp Godenot: shouts: Soylent green is people!
[2010/08/24 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: yummy!
[2010/08/24 15:57]  Judith Underwood: yep scarp
[2010/08/24 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that if I had time-travelled from 1990 to 2010 *I* wouldn’t manage to cope…
[2010/08/24 15:57]  Sami Faith: thank you for this nice discussions cu 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:57]  Fael Innovia: about that cryogenic patients thing… they would need quite some retraining to function in the society they’re woken up in.
[2010/08/24 15:57]  Luisa Bourgoin: acceleration, grow .. wrong direction
[2010/08/24 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (se you, Sami!)
[2010/08/24 15:57]  Extropia DaSilva: Yeah, bye:)
[2010/08/24 15:57]  Ataraxia Azemus: Bye Sami
[2010/08/24 15:58]  Sunfire Langer: I dont understand, is decay the ‘right’ direction, Luisa?
[2010/08/24 15:58]  Scarp Godenot: It would be a great comedown for the rich frozen people to come back as poor wards of the state.
[2010/08/24 15:58]  Luisa Bourgoin: “Entschleunigung”
[2010/08/24 15:58]  Camilla Delvalle: To ececute an immortal would maybe be another thing than executing a mortal, because the mortal would die soon anyway.
[2010/08/24 15:58]  Extropia DaSilva: If it was affordable…how many of you would prefer cryonics to being buried or burned after your death?
[2010/08/24 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean… in 1990, I would NOT have believed that *every human on the planet* (well, ok, half of them) would be connected to the Internet with a device smaller than a cigarette case which runs on a battery that lasts one week… in 1990 that would be absurd science fiction.
[2010/08/24 15:58]  Graine Macbain: I gess any port in a storm, lol.
[2010/08/24 15:59]  Sunfire Langer: yes, immortal life would gain an unarguable sanctity
[2010/08/24 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: or universal scorn 🙂
[2010/08/24 15:59]  Camilla Delvalle: Scarp, yes what if the rich ones that were frozed woke up in a future where everyone was genetically modified to be much more intelligent, and the thawed one could only get the lowest paid jobs.
[2010/08/24 15:59]  Ataraxia Azemus: I have mixed feelings about living in science fiction. But I’m amused to know that I do.
[2010/08/24 15:59]  Fael Innovia: Gwyn, it would be quite a culture shock
[2010/08/24 15:59]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have no doubt!
[2010/08/24 15:59]  Graine Macbain: We’re living in science fiction wheter we like it or not, Ataraxia.
[2010/08/24 15:59]  Ataraxia Azemus: Camilla, Futurama didn’t seem so bad… 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:00]  Sunfire Langer: Its not such a change between science-fiction & science-fact, just time and application, Ataraxia
[2010/08/24 16:00]  Zobeid Zuma: I’d like to be frozen. I mean, as opposed to dying and not being frozen.
[2010/08/24 16:00]  Scarp Godenot: ha ha, yeah nice Camilla!
[2010/08/24 16:00]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I prefer to be kept warm…
[2010/08/24 16:00]  Extropia DaSilva: Brains and minds make immortality impossible. Reason being, they evolve over time so eventually you must become a compeletely different person. We only thnk we are the same person now, because the change we experience in a few decades is pretty minimal. But, imagine a life that lasts ten billion years. Would THAT Extropia have anything in common with who I am TODAY?
[2010/08/24 16:00]  Scarp Godenot: Being dead isn’t so bad, you don’t even know it! haha
[2010/08/24 16:01]  Graine Macbain: The core you is always the core you as longa s you have memory.
[2010/08/24 16:01]  Sunfire Langer: Jules Verne wrote that we’d ride to the moon on a cannon shot, we achieved it by putting the continual cannon onboard the craft
[2010/08/24 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, Extie. 🙂 It would.
[2010/08/24 16:01]  Extropia DaSilva: There is no core.
[2010/08/24 16:01]  Graine Macbain: who said that?
[2010/08/24 16:01]  Judith Underwood: whispers: ahhhh no core
[2010/08/24 16:01]  Judith Underwood: !
[2010/08/24 16:01]  Luisa Bourgoin: Sunfire, nice one!
[2010/08/24 16:01]  Zobeid Zuma: But I don’t kid myself that the future desperately needs my insights. . . Like Buck Rogers defeating the invaders with his knowledge of WW1 tactics. 😛
[2010/08/24 16:01]  Scarp Godenot: life is a river, man
[2010/08/24 16:01]  Ataraxia Azemus: Your experience is the thread that ties you together, and that’s in constant motion.
[2010/08/24 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is a continuum, Extie 🙂 The Extie from a minute ago is not the same as the one right now, but your Extie for the past defintely created the causes that make sthe Extie from now to exist.
[2010/08/24 16:02]  Extropia DaSilva: All of philopsophy from the 20th century onwards (WESTERN philosophy that is, EASTERN recognized this fact a long time before) and neuroscience has reached the same conclusion.
[2010/08/24 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: actually, the Extie from a minute ago doesn’t exist anyway.
[2010/08/24 16:02]  Scarp Godenot: She exists in the fifth dimension!
[2010/08/24 16:02]  Sunfire Langer: brains and human minds dont make immortality impossible, what does make it impossible is the incapacity of our current medicine to repair the damage caused by free radicals (otherwise known as aging), Extropia
[2010/08/24 16:03]  Zobeid Zuma: Immortality as such is impossible, but. . . Not dying is possible.
[2010/08/24 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like that, Zo! Please elaborate 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:03]  Sunfire Langer: We dont know what happens to a human brain if it lived for 1’000 years
[2010/08/24 16:03]  Scarp Godenot: Long life is not Immortality. Immortality is a myth.
[2010/08/24 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: it gets bored from all that TV
[2010/08/24 16:03]  Graine Macbain: maybe we are confusing godlike immortality for a very vastly extended youthful healthy life.
[2010/08/24 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, ok. I had that in mind, Graine
[2010/08/24 16:04]  Zobeid Zuma: Death is a catastrophic loss of personality, memory, knowledge. . . data, we might say.
[2010/08/24 16:04]  Extropia DaSilva: That makes it infeasible. Impossible is whatever the laws of physics disallows. It does not disallow the repair of the body at the molecular or atomic level.
[2010/08/24 16:04]  Luisa Bourgoin: could several beeings merge, into some more “groupwise” beeing?
[2010/08/24 16:04]  Ataraxia Azemus: I’ll take the latter over the former, anyway….I wasn’t done wasting that youth before I wasted it all!
[2010/08/24 16:04]  Extropia DaSilva: If it did, your primaries could not exist:)
[2010/08/24 16:04]  Scarp Godenot: Will I still be a smart ass when they thaw me out? hmmmmmmm
[2010/08/24 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like we’re dong here on SL, Luisa? 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *doing
[2010/08/24 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sure you will, Scarp 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:05]  Rigrun Torok: when you die you mind knows you’re dead so your mind is no more; if they bring you back your mind will have ceased being around then what?
[2010/08/24 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless, well, all your brain got damaged… lol
[2010/08/24 16:05]  Zobeid Zuma: You can grow and evolve over time into somebody different — or a number of somebodies — and that’s not dying. Death is like an irretrievable hard drive crash.
[2010/08/24 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then you have a nicely unfrozen zombie, Rigrun 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:05]  Sunfire Langer: The laws of physics dont disallow it, the Buck Institute, for instance, has expanded the lifespan of the nematode by 6 times the original. Physics does not impede an unaging lifeform, medicine required to repair its aging DOES, Extopia
[2010/08/24 16:05]  Graine Macbain: Yes, Gwyneth that is a lot to shoor for as far as our generation is concerned…
[2010/08/24 16:05]  Judith Underwood: indeed
[2010/08/24 16:05]  Rigrun Torok: Breaks my ribs laughing
[2010/08/24 16:05]  Judith Underwood: how interesting
[2010/08/24 16:05]  Extropia DaSilva: Your mind does not know you are dead. You need a working cerebral cortex in order to have any kind of propositional knowledge. I am assuming no afterlife in a spiritual sense, btw.
[2010/08/24 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Happy nematodes….
[2010/08/24 16:06]  Zobeid Zuma: Sunfire, that doesn’t really address the point Extie was making about the inherent impossibility of immortality.
[2010/08/24 16:06]  Luisa Bourgoin: if change is unavoidable (as mentioned, because of mind structure) merging could avoid long-term obstacles of limited living space
[2010/08/24 16:06]  Zobeid Zuma: It’s not just a matter of keeping an organism alive.
[2010/08/24 16:06]  Sunfire Langer: And what was so impossible about it? ( I believe I addressed this earlier), Zobeid
[2010/08/24 16:07]  Extropia DaSilva: I understand what you are saying, Sunfire. However, remember that cryonics patients are not getting any worse. They are in a stable condition and merely wait for medical science to advance to a stage where their stable condition can be reversed and they can be revived.
[2010/08/24 16:07]  Luisa Bourgoin: how long does Joe Average Nematodes life? Usual lifespan
[2010/08/24 16:07]  Judith Underwood: lord i’m soon gonna have to get to that mind/feelings/soul thing that works everybody into a frenzy here roflmao
[2010/08/24 16:07]  Zobeid Zuma: It’s impossible because if you are alive, then you are interacting with your environment, having experiences, learning, and your personality is evolving. And as that continues long enough, eventually, inevitable, you will become a different person, and the original “you” will be no more.
[2010/08/24 16:08]  Sunfire Langer: Cryonics patients are practically dead.
[2010/08/24 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: Right, Zo. Solipsist nation.
[2010/08/24 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, you’ve promised us that, Judith!)
[2010/08/24 16:08]  Judith Underwood: well they are dead sunfire
[2010/08/24 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: What is practically dead? Once, you were declared dead if you stopped breathing. Nowadays that is just the cue to start CPR.
[2010/08/24 16:08]  Judith Underwood: hehe
[2010/08/24 16:09]  Extropia DaSilva: Medical technology can cause a reconsideration of what being dead means.
[2010/08/24 16:09]  Sunfire Langer: That is a rational abstraction that has no effect on the reality of experience, its like applying the law of identity to saw I, Sunfire am not Sunfire because I am not as I was aged 4 years old, Zobeid
[2010/08/24 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Totally so, Extropia — the movie “Flatline” comes to mind 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:09]  Judith Underwood: now if a person was at the point of death could they ASK to begin the process of cryonics which of course would kill them
[2010/08/24 16:09]  Sunfire Langer: Rationalism is a game of axioms, you need to study phen omena to apply it
[2010/08/24 16:09]  Luisa Bourgoin: “on the long term, we are all …” what? suspect to C-P-R what does that mean
[2010/08/24 16:09]  Judith Underwood: or wold that be murder
[2010/08/24 16:10]  Zobeid Zuma: No effect on the reality of experience? What kind of doubletalk is that?
[2010/08/24 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: it would be murder on any country that disallows euthanasia, Judith
[2010/08/24 16:10]  Judith Underwood: yes
[2010/08/24 16:10]  Judith Underwood: but should it be
[2010/08/24 16:10]  Sunfire Langer: No, rational abstraction cannot effect phenomena, only our description of that phenomena, Zobeid
[2010/08/24 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *shrugs*
[2010/08/24 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh nice one, Sunfire 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: But Sunfire, again, living for a few decades does not see much change. So no wonder you feel a connection to the person you were in your twenties. But, if you should live through the changes of a million years, would you still feel a connection to that 20 year old?
[2010/08/24 16:11]  Zobeid Zuma: I’m sure in many ways you aren’t the same as you were when you were four. So in that sense you’re supporting my point.
[2010/08/24 16:11]  Fael Innovia: Well, time for me to start preparing for bed. Have fun everyone! It was nice to pop in again 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Extie, the short answer is “we don’t know”. However, we have hints. People that faint don’t recollect the time spent uncounscious, for them it’s just a time lapse.
[2010/08/24 16:11]  Sunfire Langer: Again, we dont know what a human life living that long would make, so we cant say whether it be good or bad, Extropia
[2010/08/24 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: Bye Fael:)
[2010/08/24 16:12]  Graine Macbain: Good night Fael!
[2010/08/24 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Similar to getting anesthesia during a surgery (well, for most people anyway)
[2010/08/24 16:12]  Zobeid Zuma: /me doesn’t even remember the queston of “good or bad” being raised. . .
[2010/08/24 16:12]  Extropia DaSilva: I did not ask if it were good or bad. I asked if you would retain any memory of the life you live now. But…well, I guess none of us can answer that question yet.
[2010/08/24 16:12]  Sunfire Langer: You seem to think that if phenomena dont make sense the Universe will crash, Zobeid
[2010/08/24 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And it’s also similar to people who have lost their minds for several years and then suddenly recovered. They didn’t “feel” the time passing.
[2010/08/24 16:13]  Zobeid Zuma: Not sure how you got that idea, Sun?
[2010/08/24 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So although “we don’t know”; it’s reasonable to consider that the more probable thing is to get de-thawed and not feeling any difference from the second you were frozen, no matter how much time passed.
[2010/08/24 16:14]  Luisa Bourgoin: not even slow dreams .. poor ones
[2010/08/24 16:14]  Scarp Godenot: Isn’t that epiphenomenalism Sunfire?
[2010/08/24 16:14]  Zobeid Zuma: The person who was thawed would be subject to a lot of new experience and adaptation in a hurry, I reckon.
[2010/08/24 16:14]  Ataraxia Azemus: Uh oh….lightning.
[2010/08/24 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It happened, for some people, who “lost their minds” for decades.
[2010/08/24 16:15]  Ataraxia Azemus: Looks like I’ll have to bid you lovely people goodnight
[2010/08/24 16:15]  Ataraxia Azemus: Bye!
[2010/08/24 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: See you, Ataraxia 🙂 Enjoy the storm 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:15]  Scarp Godenot: I love wild weather myself
[2010/08/24 16:15]  Graine Macbain: Good night Ataraxia!
[2010/08/24 16:15]  Ataraxia Azemus: I’ll try 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: me to, Scarp 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *too
[2010/08/24 16:15]  Extropia DaSilva: Ohhh…no I was talking about immortality. People LIVING through a million years+ of life. But..yeah this is one major discussion in cryonics. IS the revived person (especially if they are ‘revived’ as software emulating a brain) the SAME person as the one who was preserved?
[2010/08/24 16:15]  Zobeid Zuma: Looks like we lost Sunfire. :/
[2010/08/24 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: As “same” as the person who went yesterday to sleep is the same one today.
[2010/08/24 16:16]  Judith Underwood: people crashing probly
[2010/08/24 16:16]  Graine Macbain: If they think they are the same, they are…
[2010/08/24 16:16]  Extropia DaSilva: Never did get an answer to your question, Zoe;/
[2010/08/24 16:16]  Zobeid Zuma: I think they could be the “same person” for a short time, but not for long. 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that assumes that you’re not the same people when you wake up every morning, Zo 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *person
[2010/08/24 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: gah
[2010/08/24 16:16]  Graine Macbain: aslong as they identify with their pre-forzen self…
[2010/08/24 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m writing way worse than usually!
[2010/08/24 16:16]  Luisa Bourgoin: you cannot stay the same once you experienced that your former familiar surroundings got lost in history
[2010/08/24 16:16]  Extropia DaSilva: Google for an essay called KILLED BY BAD PHILOSOPHY. Good paper on the identity issue.
[2010/08/24 16:16]  Zobeid Zuma: No, no. . . That’s a gross exaggeration, Gwyn.
[2010/08/24 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or an oversimplification 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:17]  Zobeid Zuma: We change every day (and every night), but it’s a matter of degree. It’s a drop in the bucket.
[2010/08/24 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why? 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: We change every planck unit of time, actually…
[2010/08/24 16:17]  Extropia DaSilva: How come you seem like the same Gwyn to me, then?
[2010/08/24 16:17]  Scarp Godenot: Well, EVERYTHING boils down to its definition. If we don’t agree on those definitions, no point in communicating…..
[2010/08/24 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Luisa, that happens when you move to a different country too 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:18]  Zobeid Zuma: I dunno why. What’s your theory?
[2010/08/24 16:18]  Luisa Bourgoin: days dont matter. centuries do
[2010/08/24 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: habitual tendencies 🙂 You’re *used* to think that I’m the same person as always.
[2010/08/24 16:18]  Luisa Bourgoin: a move doesnt kill the peopl on other end of a telephone…
[2010/08/24 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[2010/08/24 16:19]  Extropia DaSilva: Ok well, I admit I do not think you are exactly the same. But nor do I think you are somebody else.
[2010/08/24 16:19]  Scarp Godenot: “Sometimes one moment can change the direction of an entire life”
[2010/08/24 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not saying that people wouldn’t be overwhelmingly lost and be forced to change quite quickly as they adapt to a diffeent environment… of course they would…
[2010/08/24 16:19]  Graine Macbain: Like in Run, Lola, Run…lol
[2010/08/24 16:19]  Judith Underwood: but they could
[2010/08/24 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s it, Extie 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The point is just from the perspective of that person, well, they would definitely feel the same tie with their former selves, a million years ago — just like I feel the same tie with the person that went to bed in my body last night 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excluding, of course, brain damage, memory loss, and other complications due to a “bad dethaw”
[2010/08/24 16:20]  Scarp Godenot: Who went to bed with your body last night, Gwyn? heh
[2010/08/24 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl Scarp
[2010/08/24 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: ..You know how I say I am the ‘same’ even if my primary changes, provided the residents of SL BELIEVE I am the same old Extie? Well…if my PRIMARY does NOT change…but for some reason NOBODY believes I AM Extie….AM I? Or NOT!?
[2010/08/24 16:21]  Camilla Delvalle: The unity of the mind is an illusion.
[2010/08/24 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But one that we’re very well adapted to.
[2010/08/24 16:21]  Luisa Bourgoin: so if you feel the same and want to go to work as everyday, but (Futurama!) the world changed a little meanwhiles
[2010/08/24 16:21]  Graine Macbain: If you are not, then who are you?
[2010/08/24 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That way lies madness, Extie — or deep enlightenment 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:21]  Scarp Godenot: You are Extie by definition.
[2010/08/24 16:22]  Judith Underwood: same thing gwyn
[2010/08/24 16:22]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes Camila. But understanding the pencil in the glass of water is not really divided in two does not fix it.
[2010/08/24 16:22]  Luisa Bourgoin: Extie, you are an alt of Gwyn. I have heard
[2010/08/24 16:22]  Graine Macbain: You pull the pencil out.
[2010/08/24 16:22]  Scarp Godenot: We are all alts in GWyn’s dream.
[2010/08/24 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe no. I’m able to recognise different, separate minds in all of you 😉
[2010/08/24 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Granted, I MIGHT be wrong, but then I’d be wrong about everybody anyway… so it’s a familiar kind of “wrongness”.
[2010/08/24 16:23]  Extropia DaSilva: Yes but in the case of the self, you cannot do that. A core self is very useful on a practical level, so even though scientifically and philosophically it was abandoned long ago, in every day use the self is not a fiction.
[2010/08/24 16:23]  Luisa Bourgoin: lets not argue about size or property of difference
[2010/08/24 16:23]  Judith Underwood: sorry but have to leave early tonight 😦 see you guys next time
[2010/08/24 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Take care, judith 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:23]  Extropia DaSilva: Bye Judith:)
[2010/08/24 16:23]  Graine Macbain: Night Judith!
[2010/08/24 16:23]  Judith Underwood: bye all
[2010/08/24 16:23]  Rigrun Torok: Good Discussion…………… Safe Paths everyone :))
[2010/08/24 16:24]  Scarp Godenot: The self is a working definition. That is it is contingent on evidence to the contrary.
[2010/08/24 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: of course the notion of “self” is useful, Extie, so are a lot of other notions
[2010/08/24 16:24]  Extropia DaSilva: …Why am I the alt of Gwyn, rather than Gwyn being the alt of me? Is it because she is older? Is in SL more than I am?
[2010/08/24 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, how would we be able to describe physical laws if we couldn’t classify the whole universe in tidy objects? 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Extie
[2010/08/24 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: a paradox!
[2010/08/24 16:24]  Scarp Godenot: Gwyn controls all. amen
[2010/08/24 16:25]  Zobeid Zuma: I’m older than Gwyn. Slightly. Heh.
[2010/08/24 16:25]  Scarp Godenot: I believe in Gwyn
[2010/08/24 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[2010/08/24 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s bad! Not even i believe in myself!
[2010/08/24 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And definitely not in my self (deliberate space)
[2010/08/24 16:25]  Extropia DaSilva: …And how come my primary has absolutely no idea what Gwyn was doing yesterday around this time? Is it because Gwyn runs in a part of vis mind completely cut off from the part that runs me?
[2010/08/24 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:26]  Luisa Bourgoin: a healthy whole bunch of split personality
[2010/08/24 16:26]  Scarp Godenot: “Belief doth not sanctify me” Nietzche
[2010/08/24 16:26]  Zobeid Zuma: That would be like split personality, right? That could happen. 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Partial memory loss, Extie? 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: That is exactly what it is. I am talking about comparmentalization. One set of memories completely cut off from the rest. It does happen.
[2010/08/24 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: heeh actually I like that, Extie, it’s one of the major arguments against solipsism.
[2010/08/24 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, it can happen.
[2010/08/24 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like when you’re drunk…
[2010/08/24 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: …. and fortunately it DOES happen 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:28]  Extropia DaSilva: We all experience some level of depersonalization. It is the only way to cope in a universe that bombards the brain with so much information.
[2010/08/24 16:28]  Scarp Godenot: In existentialism the existence of the other is agreed to be a first principle of being able to say anything at all outside of solipsism.
[2010/08/24 16:28]  Luisa Bourgoin: shunt down information inpour!
[2010/08/24 16:28]  Extropia DaSilva: Like…right now I expect most of you have minimal awareness of RL, focusing as you are in my and my stimulating chatter here in SL;)
[2010/08/24 16:28]  Scarp Godenot: This IS RL!
[2010/08/24 16:29]  Extropia DaSilva: …yes!
[2010/08/24 16:29]  Extropia DaSilva: Well said Scarp:)
[2010/08/24 16:29]  Extropia DaSilva: OK…we all done? Anyone have anything to say about the topic still?
[2010/08/24 16:29]  Luisa Bourgoin: we can settle upon “beeing a part of RL”
[2010/08/24 16:29]  Graine Macbain: What was the topic?
[2010/08/24 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I believe there is a point there somewhere, Extie, but I think I’ve lost you 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:29]  Camilla Delvalle: I have nothing to add.
[2010/08/24 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Graine
[2010/08/24 16:29]  Scarp Godenot: I think frozen people are all narcissists.
[2010/08/24 16:29]  Luisa Bourgoin: ack!
[2010/08/24 16:30]  Graine Macbain: Ironi that they arent conscius to enjoy their narcissim.
[2010/08/24 16:30]  Luisa Bourgoin: …and suspect to organ robbery next times…
[2010/08/24 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Fortunately, they’re also all dead, Scarp 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:30]  Scarp Godenot: ha ha Gwyn
[2010/08/24 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I say, go for it! Freeze all narcissists!
[2010/08/24 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Make this a better world 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:30]  Scarp Godenot: Can you be a narcissist if you are deat? Probably not! ha ha
[2010/08/24 16:30]  Extropia DaSilva: Why are they narcissists, and not people who are on the organ donar waiting list or any other method of extending life? Huh?
[2010/08/24 16:30]  Luisa Bourgoin: dictator on the rocks … tempting
[2010/08/24 16:31]  Extropia DaSilva: And they are not dead. Just…preserved.
[2010/08/24 16:31]  Luisa Bourgoin: actually that could be an argument for this ongoing debacle of death penalty
[2010/08/24 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Legally, they’re as dead as Elvis 🙂
[2010/08/24 16:31]  Scarp Godenot: Accepting your own death is part of living I think.
[2010/08/24 16:31]  Graine Macbain: whispers: Freeze Charlei manson!
[2010/08/24 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear, Scarp.
[2010/08/24 16:31]  Extropia DaSilva: ….Elvis is…………………………………………….dead?
[2010/08/24 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The rumour is out!
[2010/08/24 16:32]  Scarp Godenot: Elvis has left the building!
[2010/08/24 16:32]  Graine Macbain: Actually, Elvis is alive and well in SL.
[2010/08/24 16:32]  Extropia DaSilva: Well, unlike the cryonics, for whome time is currently at a standstill…OUR time is up!
[2010/08/24 16:32]  Graine Macbain: His avatar name is
[2010/08/24 16:32]  Extropia DaSilva: NEXT WEEK…I SEE NO FAULT
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