THINKERS 3rd AUGUST 2010: COMETH THE MAN.

Gwyneth Llewelyn at Thinkers.

[2010/08/03 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: So…welcomg to Thinkers!
[2010/08/03 15:34]  Extropia DaSilva: A recent poll showed residents’ faith in the future of SL significantly improving after it was announced Rosedale would return as CEO. But, in a world that depends so much on collaborative creation of content by the many, how much difference can any one person really make?
[2010/08/03 15:35]  Morgaine Dinova: Maybe we should factor out the removal of M and T from the change first.
[2010/08/03 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: august 3 2010
[2010/08/03 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me looks at her watch. “Aye, it’s today”
[2010/08/03 15:35]  Shorahmin Femto: groups do not self colaborate spontaneously. It requires leadership
[2010/08/03 15:35]  Scarp Godenot: The ‘right’ person who has the power can make all the difference. It is all about making the right choices about the structure of things.
[2010/08/03 15:35]  Extropia DaSilva: Seren love:))
[2010/08/03 15:35]  Zobeid Zuma: Who is this “Rosedale” person? Forgive my noob question. 🙂
[2010/08/03 15:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Zo 🙂
[2010/08/03 15:35]  Shorahmin Femto: blasphemy!
[2010/08/03 15:36]  Extropia DaSilva: Are you serious, Zoe?
[2010/08/03 15:36]  Serendipity Seraph: hey darling
[2010/08/03 15:36]  Scarp Godenot: Philip Rosedale, the founder of Second Life has returned to be the day to day CEO of the company.
[2010/08/03 15:36]  Serendipity Seraph: thanks, ari
[2010/08/03 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Join the First Church of Rosedale!
[2010/08/03 15:36]  Serendipity Seraph: hey all
[2010/08/03 15:36]  Extropia DaSilva: *Squeezes your hand*
[2010/08/03 15:36]  Zobeid Zuma: Yes, I’m serious. Why would I know who is who in LL? I’ve never been interested in that sort of thing.
[2010/08/03 15:36]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: welcome, Seren!
[2010/08/03 15:36]  Serendipity Seraph: *kisses my lovely wife*
[2010/08/03 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a good argument actually, Zo 🙂 If people don’t even know who Philip is, why should he matter? 🙂
[2010/08/03 15:37]  Scarp Godenot: Philip Rosedale aka Philip Linden is the visionary mover and shaker that got Second Life happening.
[2010/08/03 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: Oh. Well Philip Rosedale is to SL what Tim Berners Lee is to the Web. He invented it. SL that is, not the Web. Tim invented the web.
[2010/08/03 15:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: … well, by accident
[2010/08/03 15:37]  Zobeid Zuma: /me didn’t know that about Lee either. :/
[2010/08/03 15:37]  Extropia DaSilva: He thought it up. This is his idea.
[2010/08/03 15:37]  Khannea Suntzu: Heya sip
[2010/08/03 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tim actually wanted to invent Wikipedia 🙂
[2010/08/03 15:38]  Scarp Godenot: And he was replaced by someone who didn’t fully ‘get’ the nature of the thing. So his return will hopefully refocus the company on its current users needs and not on future world takeover models.
[2010/08/03 15:38]  Shorahmin Femto: and he provided the leadership that led to all the colaboration that created SL and made it grow
[2010/08/03 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, one can say that Philip wanted to invent a nice tool to develop 3D games… what came out of it was Second Life.
[2010/08/03 15:38]  Extropia DaSilva: Actually pretty amazing to think one person did invent the web. Seems to big for one person, huh? Same goes for SL. All this is the vision of ONe person?
[2010/08/03 15:38]  Zobeid Zuma: I had noticed that Wikipedia is a lot like the early ideas of how the WWW should work. 🙂
[2010/08/03 15:38]  Morgaine Dinova: I think it’s more than just “he thought it up”. He acted as a visionary throughout it all, and his charisma and optimism always was and still is highly contagious.
[2010/08/03 15:38]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Zo!
[2010/08/03 15:38]  Serendipity Seraph: hey, K scrumptious. great outfit you are almost wealing. 🙂
[2010/08/03 15:39]  Khannea Suntzu: What Al Gore also invented SL??? hay???
[2010/08/03 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl Khannea!
[2010/08/03 15:39]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: don’t tempt him!
[2010/08/03 15:39]  Scarp Godenot: Gwyn, I think that Philip has said that the virtual world as presented in the novel SNowCrash was an inspiration for him.
[2010/08/03 15:39]  Khannea Suntzu: Tell me about Sipples
[2010/08/03 15:39]  Serendipity Seraph: yes. he had a vision that he put a lot into for many years. it worked. well enough to get us here anyway
[2010/08/03 15:39]  Zobeid Zuma: If Snowcrash inspired it, then why is it so much like a MUCK with graphics from EverQuest? 😀
[2010/08/03 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, I’ve promised to quote Leo Tolstoy today 🙂
[2010/08/03 15:40]  Khannea Suntzu: /me wiggles her boobies angrily at Zobi
[2010/08/03 15:40]  Serendipity Seraph: because we don’t have the tech for SnowCrash yet?
[2010/08/03 15:40]  Shorahmin Femto: darn I missed it
[2010/08/03 15:40]  Extropia DaSilva: But, is it not the case that sooner or later somebody was bound to think ‘hey we spend so much time making new content to keep our MMOPRG subscribers..why not make content creation the whole point?
[2010/08/03 15:40]  Scarp Godenot: The technical difficulties in making this type of thing work are HUGE. And a lot of new tech has had to be developed.
[2010/08/03 15:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seren: some things in SL are actually *better* than Snowcrash 😛
[2010/08/03 15:41]  Zobeid Zuma: Just pointing out that SL isn’t the virst virtual world, it owes a lot to those that came before.
[2010/08/03 15:41]  Serendipity Seraph: content creation isn’t the whole point though
[2010/08/03 15:41]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, Extie, we cannot really say that Philip had *that* in mind when he launched SL… not from the Long Lost Presentation
[2010/08/03 15:41]  Extropia DaSilva: So to get us on topic…how important is the indiviudual in a world based on the collaborative content creation of many?
[2010/08/03 15:42]  Zobeid Zuma: MUCKs allow players to create content, they did for many years before SL came along. But it was all ASCII text.
[2010/08/03 15:42]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: User-generated content creation, however, certainly figured on the later rounds of funding though… after the closed beta was launched.
[2010/08/03 15:42]  Serendipity Seraph: it is the 1st one of its kind that I know of and certainly the first on this scale that is completely user driven
[2010/08/03 15:42]  Scarp Godenot: Whether or not SL didn’t invent the concepts. What it did invent was this type of 24/7 online place that was interactive in this way. It is still the best of what it tries to do by far.
[2010/08/03 15:42]  Serendipity Seraph: but MUCKs generally had some scripted things to walk through, right?
[2010/08/03 15:42]  Morgaine Dinova: If you’re going to mention Snowcrash and Philip’s inspiration, then we also need to state that his worldview changed, rather dramatically. And that while he used to talk about SL being a “new country”, very much a VIRTUAL WORLD, it has now become just a 3D representation of RL for him — he regards it with augmentalist’s eyes now, which is a significant change.
[2010/08/03 15:42]  Zobeid Zuma: Scripted things to walk through?
[2010/08/03 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: Tolstoy used to have a theory that the importance of the individual is pretty much zero. He claimed that so long the conditions were set in place, things would naturally happen, no matter who the individual “in charge” was. If that individual would be replaced, it would be interchangeable with anyone with similar skills and know-how — so long conditions remain the same.
[2010/08/03 15:43]  Serendipity Seraph: the notion of a true “Second Life” where what happened was pretty much up to the people involved and the world was pretty much what you brought to it
[2010/08/03 15:43]  Serendipity Seraph: Tolstoy was an idiout
[2010/08/03 15:43]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Morgaine, do you think so? Sometimes Philip falls back to immersionism… 🙂 I think he’s largely undecided (like myself)
[2010/08/03 15:43]  Zobeid Zuma: Psychohistory. . .
[2010/08/03 15:44]  Serendipity Seraph: *idiot *busy sputtering*
[2010/08/03 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aha, Seren. 🙂
[2010/08/03 15:44]  Scarp Godenot: It really doesn’t matter what anyone sees it as, as long as others are capable of seeing it the way they would like to see it. If that makes sense. The tools and structure are paramount.
[2010/08/03 15:44]  Shorahmin Femto: Gwyn, we just learned the falsity of that
[2010/08/03 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Zo!
[2010/08/03 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: The falsity of what?
[2010/08/03 15:44]  Zobeid Zuma: Didn’t take into account the whole field of chaos theory, though. 🙂
[2010/08/03 15:44]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not “just now”, Shorah — more than a century ago, in fact.
[2010/08/03 15:44]  Extropia DaSilva: Khannea love I cannot hear anything you are saying.
[2010/08/03 15:44]  Shorahmin Femto: Tolstoy’s opinion, Rosedale left, things did not contiue
[2010/08/03 15:44]  Serendipity Seraph: so people are just fungible and none makes any real difference to much of anything?
[2010/08/03 15:44]  Khannea Suntzu: ?
[2010/08/03 15:45]  Khannea Suntzu: Bug??
[2010/08/03 15:45]  Extropia DaSilva: You seemed to be speaking. Your white dot was pulsating green waves.
[2010/08/03 15:45]  Khannea Suntzu: Odd?
[2010/08/03 15:45]  Morgaine Dinova: Gwyn: I think I know what you mean, yeah, he still has the blue-sky attitude to it. But he’s definitely much more focussed on mapping to the physical world now. In part that came with the efforts to interface with the Web.
[2010/08/03 15:45]  Shorahmin Femto: open mike
[2010/08/03 15:45]  Zobeid Zuma: I definitely think individuals and small groups can change the world.
[2010/08/03 15:46]  Extropia DaSilva: But we can imagine one person making a difference here. Say, some genius works out a way to rid us of lag.
[2010/08/03 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll take your word for it, Morgaine, although sometimes I wonder….
[2010/08/03 15:46]  Khannea Suntzu: I acvtually made sound? Which is weird since I dont have a mike.
[2010/08/03 15:46]  Serendipity Seraph: it certainly has happened before
[2010/08/03 15:46]  Khannea Suntzu: Sometimes quicktime can stream
[2010/08/03 15:46]  Scarp Godenot: Every creator makes a difference, and as a group they make EVERYTHING. The virtual world is not predictable as to the direction that the people will take inside of it.
[2010/08/03 15:46]  Morgaine Dinova: Khannea’s in posthuman transition, a mike is not needed 😛
[2010/08/03 15:46]  Serendipity Seraph: just some setting in viewer got turned on somehow probably
[2010/08/03 15:46]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: BTW, I’m *not* saying that Tolstoy is right, just that his theory is interesting and ought not to be immediately discarded 🙂
[2010/08/03 15:46]  Serendipity Seraph: why not?
[2010/08/03 15:47]  Shorahmin Femto: but can’t we discard it “after 100 years”
[2010/08/03 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because to discard it, you have to argue 🙂
[2010/08/03 15:47]  Zobeid Zuma: I’d consider the implications of chaos theory first, and *then* discard Tolstoy.
[2010/08/03 15:47]  Scarp Godenot: I think that if Philip’s speech last week is to be believed, that focusing on ease of operability and improving the existing tech will reap great rewards.
[2010/08/03 15:47]  Serendipity Seraph: it isn’t true to history or my experience so why shouldn’t I toss it and move on?
[2010/08/03 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: See, that’s much more reasonable, Zo.
[2010/08/03 15:47]  Extropia DaSilva: Do we think the fortunes of Sl could dramatically change for better or worse with the introduction of a new CEO, or is its fate in the hands of the Collective of residents/Lindens?
[2010/08/03 15:47]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The question is “why” it isn’t true to either history or your experience, Seren 🙂
[2010/08/03 15:47]  Morgaine Dinova: I’d consider the “Politicians are idiots” theory first, and then discard Tolstoy.
[2010/08/03 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Would that apply to Philip too, Morgaine?
[2010/08/03 15:48]  Zobeid Zuma: I don’t think SL can change much now. It’s past that phase of its existence.
[2010/08/03 15:48]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: See, I tend to agree more with Zo 🙂
[2010/08/03 15:48]  Shorahmin Femto: I’ll eat a chees sandwich first ansd then…
[2010/08/03 15:48]  Serendipity Seraph: the fate is in the hands of a mixture of the management, residents and what the rest of the world especially competitors is up to among other things
[2010/08/03 15:48]  Serendipity Seraph: a good CEO rides those waves skillfully
[2010/08/03 15:48]  Morgaine Dinova: Gwyn: Visionaries are not politicians, or haven’t been since Ghandi. Totally different beast today.
[2010/08/03 15:48]  Extropia DaSilva: I get the feeling the Web is here to stay. No getting rid of it. IS SL at that stage yet?
[2010/08/03 15:48]  Zobeid Zuma: (And that’s why I want so much to see a good competitor arise.)
[2010/08/03 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right, Seren. Then just ONE individual doesn’t make a difference: it’s that mixture that makes the difference!
[2010/08/03 15:49]  Scarp Godenot: Extie: I would say that a seamlessly functioning platform should be the goal of Linden Lab. What is created here will all depend on everyone being engaged enough to stay. Eliminating basic problems will help this goal dramatically.
[2010/08/03 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Morgaine: I’d agree with you the other way round, politicians these days are not visionaries… 😉
[2010/08/03 15:49]  Morgaine Dinova: A visionary in politics today would get torn to pieces in the party system.
[2010/08/03 15:49]  Serendipity Seraph: I think this kind of virtual world is here to stay. whether it is SL or another that eventually predominates
[2010/08/03 15:49]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, Morgaine!
[2010/08/03 15:49]  Zobeid Zuma: To go like the web it would have to be open software, which means OpenSim, and OpenSim isn’t at that stage yet.
[2010/08/03 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seren, that sounds like Bill Gates in 1995… 🙂
[2010/08/03 15:50]  Extropia DaSilva: So…the Lindens work their asses off and pour blood sweat and tears behind the scenes to ensure we have it fast easy and fun?
[2010/08/03 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2010/08/03 15:50]  Serendipity Seraph: OpenSim is much closer than that
[2010/08/03 15:50]  Shorahmin Femto: and they earn a salary doing it
[2010/08/03 15:50]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: they’re anything but “working their asses off” 😉
[2010/08/03 15:50]  Zobeid Zuma: It’s been a while since I delved into OpenSim, admittedly.
[2010/08/03 15:51]  Serendipity Seraph: they made a fair pile. they got value back for the value they created and made possible
[2010/08/03 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: 6 bugs get fixed on average between two consecutive releases of the server software — launched every other month or so. They’re really not working VERY hard.
[2010/08/03 15:51]  Extropia DaSilva: Yeah but I sometimes forget they exist. The servers that run my world. And all the people who must maintain them.
[2010/08/03 15:51]  Serendipity Seraph: OpenSim will have media on prim in 3 months
[2010/08/03 15:51]  Morgaine Dinova: So back to Philip … I don’t think he’s classifiable, one of a kind. Some other characters come to mind, although the comparison is rather cruel and unfair — for example, Jobs could be his evil twin.
[2010/08/03 15:51]  Serendipity Seraph: mesh coming
[2010/08/03 15:51]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: haah Morgaine!!!!
[2010/08/03 15:52]  Serendipity Seraph: if they get mesh before SL it will be very interesting
[2010/08/03 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, Jobs at Apple is FAR better than Philip at SL — they’re not even close to the same league 🙂
[2010/08/03 15:52]  Scarp Godenot: The ‘visonary’ part of CEO job is to ascertain what is needed to succeed in the future. The rest of the job is to execute the vision. It seems that the Lab will now focus on functionality of Second Life. That, I think, will make this place survive. Being at the top of functionality in an upcoming huge number of worlds is the correct strategy I think.
[2010/08/03 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Seren, I saw a demo of OpenSim tweaked to support something called OGRE meshes… last year I think
[2010/08/03 15:52]  Morgaine Dinova: Gwyn: At what? I think you must refer to money.
[2010/08/03 15:52]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: At manipulating their minion’s minds 🙂
[2010/08/03 15:53]  Serendipity Seraph: visionary stuff is more than that. charisma and selling the vision to the troops and potential customers is huge
[2010/08/03 15:53]  Extropia DaSilva: ( Extite prefers to worship at the temple of the Woz).
[2010/08/03 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry, I’ve been reading the Narbonic webcomic for too long)
[2010/08/03 15:53]  Shorahmin Femto: picking minions with manipulatable minds
[2010/08/03 15:53]  Scarp Godenot: Well, no one here can seriously say that ANY open sim comes near the functionality of SL.
[2010/08/03 15:53]  Serendipity Seraph: yes. there are variants of opensim and experimental things that do meshes now but not in main branch yet
[2010/08/03 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Seren, I agree. On a scale from 1 to 10, I’d rate Jobs with 10 and Gates with at least 9; Philip gets a 5 on a good day.
[2010/08/03 15:53]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that scale is not linear 😉
[2010/08/03 15:53]  Morgaine Dinova: Well Philip doesn’t manipulate except through being a nice guy. I guess charism is “manipulating” in a sense, but it’s not exactly directed. Indeed, many might say he’s rather directionless 😛
[2010/08/03 15:53]  Serendipity Seraph: yes it does come very very near. it depends on how well the grid is managed
[2010/08/03 15:54]  Zobeid Zuma: I’ll believe it when I see it, Scarp. Sorry for being cynical, but why believe they’re going to “focus on functionality” now after ignoring it for 6+ years?
[2010/08/03 15:54]  Scarp Godenot: Steve Jobs a 10? ha ha ha gimme a break
[2010/08/03 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: What is so great about Jobs?
[2010/08/03 15:54]  Serendipity Seraph: they haven’t ignored functionality.
[2010/08/03 15:54]  Extropia DaSilva: Did he actually DESIGN any of the Apple products like the iphone?
[2010/08/03 15:54]  Zobeid Zuma: If they hadn’t ignored functionality we’d have had a reliable and easy to use viewer a few years ago. 😛
[2010/08/03 15:54]  Serendipity Seraph: Jobs is a 15. one of a kind. A perfect asshole in more than a few ways but freaking amazing.
[2010/08/03 15:55]  Morgaine Dinova: You can’t classify them on a 1-10 scale unless you pick out a particular scalar dimension. Too many things all mixed up.
[2010/08/03 15:55]  Scarp Godenot: Take a look at the press reports for the last few months. Screw up after screw up at apple.
[2010/08/03 15:55]  Morgaine Dinova: And in any case, we’re not talking about Philip’s financial acumen.
[2010/08/03 15:55]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Two things. He was the largest personal computer manufacturer in 1980. Thirty years later, after being continuously laughed at, he now owns the largest computer company in the world, and the second largest company in the US. *That’s* what makes Jobs special. He doesn’t simply have “visions” like any other visionary, he *sells* visions.
[2010/08/03 15:55]  Serendipity Seraph: not really, scarp. funny the stock still soars
[2010/08/03 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seren: and definitely 15 on the asshole scale 🙂
[2010/08/03 15:56]  Morgaine Dinova: Gwyn: that’s just money. Not what we’re talking about here
[2010/08/03 15:56]  Scarp Godenot: Gwyn, your statistics are just not correct.
[2010/08/03 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
[2010/08/03 15:56]  Serendipity Seraph: Not to mention the Disney slice
[2010/08/03 15:56]  Serendipity Seraph: That is not just money.
[2010/08/03 15:56]  Serendipity Seraph: where do you think the money came from starting with an almost dead Apple a decade ago?
[2010/08/03 15:56]  Extropia DaSilva: Bet it as always been that way. Only thing that stopped them getting the bad rap that Microsoft suffered was not being MASSIVELY sucessful on the scale of Gates’s company. Well, now they are number one people will probably start hating them with all the irational ferver they once despised windows products;)
[2010/08/03 15:56]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Morgaine, if Linden Lab weren’t a profitable company, we wouldn’t be here 🙂 Yes, it’s about money *too*
[2010/08/03 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: they have been hating them for 30 years — the hate is just going to intensify 🙂
[2010/08/03 15:57]  Zobeid Zuma: Extie, maybe it had more to do with not ripping off everybody who they had any kind of business with the way Microsoft did. :/
[2010/08/03 15:57]  Serendipity Seraph: if it ain’t profitable then it is not self-sustaining
[2010/08/03 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: They ripped off everybody, starting with Xerox…
[2010/08/03 15:57]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed, Seren
[2010/08/03 15:57]  Extropia DaSilva: Could have fooled me. It was always ‘oh my Apple does no wrong’
[2010/08/03 15:58]  Morgaine Dinova: Seren: you’re only measuring his success in corporate terms though. Here we’re talking about a mem, virtual worlds. Money is required to keep it afloat, but it’s almost irrelevant to what makes VWs inmportant.
[2010/08/03 15:58]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now more nice stats….
[2010/08/03 15:58]  Extropia DaSilva: Apart from utter lack of product support that is.
[2010/08/03 15:58]  Serendipity Seraph: hahaha. have you seen the initial xerox designs? I have. have you talked to the people there? I have. you don’t know what you are talking about.
[2010/08/03 15:58]  Serendipity Seraph: but this is a digression
[2010/08/03 15:58]  Extropia DaSilva: I rarely do, love.
[2010/08/03 15:58]  Scarp Godenot: The apple myth is far too exaggerated.
[2010/08/03 15:59]  Morgaine Dinova: Philipo could have turned SL into a billion-dollar Facebook, and that would have been a failure in VW terms. We’re not talking about simple $$ success.
[2010/08/03 15:59]  Zobeid Zuma: Don’t look at me, I’m still mourning the demise of Atari. And Commodore-Amiga. And BeBox. . . .
[2010/08/03 15:59]  Serendipity Seraph: don’t get me wrong. there is a lot I don’t like about Apple and their direction. which is why my primary left.
[2010/08/03 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: Sinclair?
[2010/08/03 15:59]  Zobeid Zuma: Never had a Sinclair.
[2010/08/03 15:59]  Extropia DaSilva: She worked for Apple?
[2010/08/03 15:59]  Shorahmin Femto: Trash – 80?
[2010/08/03 16:00]  Serendipity Seraph: yep. until mid April. about 4 years all told
[2010/08/03 16:00]  Extropia DaSilva: Me neither. C64 was KING!
[2010/08/03 16:00]  Scarp Godenot: OK enough of the mighty Jobs. Back to SL. If any of you think that Rosedale back as CEO is a BAD thing, tell us why you think so.
[2010/08/03 16:00]  Serendipity Seraph: C64 was king in its day. 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:00]  Zobeid Zuma: Heathen! The Atari 800 pwned the C64! 😛
[2010/08/03 16:00]  Zobeid Zuma: Um, are we far enough off topic yet? 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:01]  Morgaine Dinova: We’re halfway though, and we’ve still not discussed whether Philip can bring LL out of the doldrums, and prosper in the metaverse.
[2010/08/03 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The question for me is really for how long Philip is going to be “interim CEO”,
[2010/08/03 16:01]  Serendipity Seraph: I don’t know enough of their internals to know if he is liked has support enough to turn things around even if he is uber CEO for now
[2010/08/03 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and if he’s going to re-introduce the Tao of Linden 😛
[2010/08/03 16:01]  Scarp Godenot: I have commented a lot on that Morg…. ha ha
[2010/08/03 16:01]  Serendipity Seraph: I think he si more visionary than great CEO material
[2010/08/03 16:01]  Extropia DaSilva: Atari destroyed the industry with games fit only for burial in the desert! C64 gave us the sonic pleasures of Rob Hubbard!!
[2010/08/03 16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Extie
[2010/08/03 16:01]  Zobeid Zuma: SL has — from my standpoint — certain chronic problems. I’m not sure bringing in the same old guy is going to address those.
[2010/08/03 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Seren
[2010/08/03 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Zo
[2010/08/03 16:02]  Shorahmin Femto: shoud the mentor system be reintroduced?
[2010/08/03 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m carefully optimistic. 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:02]  Serendipity Seraph: but he is great to rally the public and perhaps the remaining troops
[2010/08/03 16:02]  Morgaine Dinova: Scarp: what’s your verdict? Can he pull a rabbit out of the hat? Or has the bottom fallen out of it?
[2010/08/03 16:02]  Scarp Godenot: I think a lot of us were hopeful after listening to Rosedales speech about the immediate directional changes in SL. Improving functionality. I think that is where they should keep their head at for a while.
[2010/08/03 16:02]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well…. it almost sounds like it, Shorah, with the end of the orientation areas, the community gateways… and some kind of “New” welcome areas
[2010/08/03 16:03]  Serendipity Seraph: I am worried that they aren’t hiring. why would they already have the people to bring SL to the web and to integrate mesh fully already on board?
[2010/08/03 16:03]  Extropia DaSilva: I remember the mood when M took over was ‘thank goodness, enough of that kooky dreamer, this guy will run LL like a PROPPER business’.
[2010/08/03 16:03]  Zobeid Zuma: Remember that when Jobs came back to Apple, he was only a temporary “interim CEO” until they could find somebody else. 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:03]  Shorahmin Femto: agreed
[2010/08/03 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Scarp — how was that bit on “improving functionality” different from the many Philip speeches in 2007?
[2010/08/03 16:03]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (exactly, Zo 🙂 )
[2010/08/03 16:03]  Serendipity Seraph: sort of like the Coke guy at Apple. Bad idea
[2010/08/03 16:03]  Serendipity Seraph: things like Apple and to some extent SL are sold in part on visionary appeal
[2010/08/03 16:03]  Morgaine Dinova: The most “hopeful” part of Philip’s speech was I think the admission that the V2 viewer satisfied no particular group of people at all.
[2010/08/03 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: In 2006/7, Philip said, loud and clear, that there wouldn’t be more innovative features in SL, just stability, stability, stability
[2010/08/03 16:04]  Morgaine Dinova: I like honesty
[2010/08/03 16:04]  Extropia DaSilva: Yeah.
[2010/08/03 16:04]  Serendipity Seraph: actually, I rather like some of the new viewer
[2010/08/03 16:04]  Zobeid Zuma: When is that stability supposed to get here, I wonder?
[2010/08/03 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah yes, I agree, Morgaine — he *was* different in assuming that LL made many mistakes.
[2010/08/03 16:04]  Zobeid Zuma: I rather like some of the new viewer, and other parts of it drive me up the wall. 😦
[2010/08/03 16:04]  Scarp Godenot: Gwyn, you must admit that focus on functionality has been on the back burner for the last couple of years. They realize that was a mistake now. Time will tell.
[2010/08/03 16:04]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: One was firing the team that originally developed the new UI and going with their own ideas designed by committee instead 😀
[2010/08/03 16:05]  Serendipity Seraph: media on prim is great. mesh will be even more so
[2010/08/03 16:05]  Extropia DaSilva: I watched the video introducing viewer 2. They made it sound like the greatest thing ever. Now Rosedale says it is rubbish apart from web-on-a prim.
[2010/08/03 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not really, Scarp. We actually got more features under M in two years than with Philip in the two years before.
[2010/08/03 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And actually more stability too 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But people have short memories…
[2010/08/03 16:05]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (that’s why I read my old blogs, lol )
[2010/08/03 16:05]  Shorahmin Femto: lol
[2010/08/03 16:05]  Morgaine Dinova: Seren: MoaP is not part of the V2 UI. Various features came along at the same time, so tend to get lumped with “V2”, but are separate.
[2010/08/03 16:05]  Serendipity Seraph: yes.. I noticed the stability and then that it has been missing a lot the last 3 months
[2010/08/03 16:06]  Shorahmin Femto: stability is only as good as the current crash
[2010/08/03 16:06]  Extropia DaSilva: I quite like V2 now that I have worked out how to X Yand Z with it.
[2010/08/03 16:06]  Serendipity Seraph: but you needed a new viewer to work with it
[2010/08/03 16:06]  Shorahmin Femto: I don’t have z yet
[2010/08/03 16:06]  Serendipity Seraph: as it is client side
[2010/08/03 16:06]  Scarp Godenot: Well all I heard on the blogs was how nobody was responding to the obvious problems regarding lag and group chat, etc. etc. Saying they are changing their tune now, including working WITH the other browser developers on the main browser seems a good idea to me.
[2010/08/03 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: switching from V1 to V2 is exactly like from Windows to Mac OS X — you’ll hate it for months, but then you’ll never want to go back again 😉
[2010/08/03 16:06]  Zobeid Zuma: The way 2.0 handles messages and notifications is dreadful. And inventory management is as bad as it’s always been.
[2010/08/03 16:06]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ha! Lag 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:07]  Morgaine Dinova: Yeah, but it’s not the new features that most people hate in V2, it’s the new UI, a bad regression in functionality.
[2010/08/03 16:07]  Serendipity Seraph: group chat is the most amazingly awful thing I bump into all the time here
[2010/08/03 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Philip was a bit mmmh how shall I put it…
[2010/08/03 16:07]  Serendipity Seraph: that and the stupid 10m prim limit
[2010/08/03 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: “optimistic” is perhaps a neutral word 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Focusing on stopping lag is like politicians saying they’ll reduce taxes 😉
[2010/08/03 16:07]  Shorahmin Femto: so was Chrchill
[2010/08/03 16:07]  Scarp Godenot: I would ask all those here to listen to Philip’s speech from last week and decide what you think for yourself.
[2010/08/03 16:08]  Scarp Godenot: I’ll find the link
[2010/08/03 16:08]  Extropia DaSilva: …I suppose one bit of evidence in favour of the impactful individual is that we can name individuals who had a massive presence/influence. Anshe Chung. Aimee Weber. Prokofy Neva (yes! I win the weekly ‘get prok into the topic’) Katherine Berry.
[2010/08/03 16:08]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh I actually liked it, Scarp. I think it was his *best* speech ever!
[2010/08/03 16:08]  Morgaine Dinova: Gwyn: V1->V2 is a *regression* in several areas. Unless there are parts of MacOS that are *LESS* functional than Windows, you can’t really make that correspondance.
[2010/08/03 16:08]  Zobeid Zuma: Is there anyplace where I can see that speech?
[2010/08/03 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (there certainly are, Morgaine!)
[2010/08/03 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe the tricky question, Extie, is: if there wasn’t an SL where such personalities could emerge, would those four people actually make any difference? 😉
[2010/08/03 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tolstoy would say “no”
[2010/08/03 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:09]  Scarp Godenot: Here is the speech: http://treet.tv/shows/specials/episodes/slmeeting-30jul10
[2010/08/03 16:09]  Zobeid Zuma: Or hear? Or read?
[2010/08/03 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prok would say “yes” — he’d pester people on Sims Online instead 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:09]  Zobeid Zuma: OK thanks!
[2010/08/03 16:09]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is also a text transcript, Zo…
[2010/08/03 16:10]  Morgaine Dinova: Gwyn: Ah well. In that case you’re saying “One can get used to reduced functionality”. Yeah, I’m sure you can, but you shouldn’t accept being made to.
[2010/08/03 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s more like saying that excess of functionality doesn’t really mean something is better, Morgaine 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:10]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I know, this is something I won’t defend to the bitter end.
[2010/08/03 16:11]  Extropia DaSilva: Gut reaction tells me Tolstoy is wrong. But I cannot articulate exactly why.
[2010/08/03 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, he is wrong
[2010/08/03 16:11]  Serendipity Seraph: what reduced functionality?
[2010/08/03 16:11]  Scarp Godenot: I didn’t get any sense that they were going to ‘dumb down’ anything. I got the sense that they were going to improve functionality of existing structures.
[2010/08/03 16:11]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seren: just compare the options you have on the Mac’s control panel with the ones you get in Windows’ own. Count the options you have on each 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:12]  Scarp Godenot: oh GAWD stop with the Mac Fanboi stuff. Let’s focus on the topic
[2010/08/03 16:12]  Serendipity Seraph: control panel? for the OS?
[2010/08/03 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I remember the argumentation right, Tolstoy’s vision (remember, he had political ambitions of his own) is just too limited; you need *both*; individuals AND conditions.
[2010/08/03 16:12]  Extropia DaSilva: Good call Scarp.
[2010/08/03 16:12]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, well, System preferences)
[2010/08/03 16:12]  Morgaine Dinova: Gwyn: well it’s the “Python way” versus the “Perl way”, to provide reduced functionality without actually making anything impossible. I don’t buy it because I believe in choice of techniques. One shoe doesn’t fit all in GUIs.
[2010/08/03 16:12]  Serendipity Seraph: I was asking about claim of viewer 2 taking away too much functionality
[2010/08/03 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It does, for builders.
[2010/08/03 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway…. V2 is NOT about the GUI,
[2010/08/03 16:13]  Scarp Godenot: I gather that newer versions of Viewer 2 WILL include the tools that Emerald and other viewer lovers have come to depend on.
[2010/08/03 16:13]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s about getting rid of a monolithic, impossible-to-expand viewer.
[2010/08/03 16:13]  Zobeid Zuma: Not about the GUI? What then?
[2010/08/03 16:13]  Serendipity Seraph: besides in mac you go play in ~/Library/Preferences for the rest. 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:13]  Extropia DaSilva: Build seems to be reduced to a teeny tiny word in between communicate and help. Viewer 2 makes SL seem like a 3D chatroom.
[2010/08/03 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s about the achitecture, Zo
[2010/08/03 16:14]  Morgaine Dinova: All the complaints about V2 are about the UI. I’ve never heard anyone complain about any other part of it.
[2010/08/03 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly!
[2010/08/03 16:14]  Serendipity Seraph: build between edit and open. so?
[2010/08/03 16:14]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: you’re so right, Morgaine!
[2010/08/03 16:14]  Zobeid Zuma: I like the new features.
[2010/08/03 16:14]  Extropia DaSilva: …Actually, yeah she is.
[2010/08/03 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: People complain about the UI, which is the *least* important part of the viewer — it’s supposed to be *fully independent* in a future version, something which is next-to-impossible to achieve with V1….
[2010/08/03 16:15]  Scarp Godenot: Philip said directly in the speech that Viewer 2 will be completely Open source developed. And that means that other viewer makers will be able to use it as their base.
[2010/08/03 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: they can now….
[2010/08/03 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: like Kirsten does…
[2010/08/03 16:15]  Serendipity Seraph: UI is a lot in anything user facing by definition
[2010/08/03 16:15]  Serendipity Seraph: snowglobe
[2010/08/03 16:15]  Zobeid Zuma: So. . . It would be easier in the future for someone to redo the UI?
[2010/08/03 16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes!
[2010/08/03 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes, Zo
[2010/08/03 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s the goal.
[2010/08/03 16:16]  Morgaine Dinova: As Gwyn says, they can now. The block is in the other direction. LL has until now refused to use what open source devs create, because they require signing a draconian Contributors Agreement.
[2010/08/03 16:16]  Zobeid Zuma: I might be tempted to get into that business myself. 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:16]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: it is already a BIT easier, but we’ll need to wait a few more years…
[2010/08/03 16:16]  Extropia DaSilva: I have said that we should move toward specialized viewers. Like, Scarp does builds and art and stuff, so he would choose the viewer optimized to that end, whereas for me it would be for lectures and discussion groups.
[2010/08/03 16:16]  Scarp Godenot: I have used viewer 2.1 for a couple of months exclusively and I find it SUPERIOR to any other viewers, of which I have the latests versions of many.
[2010/08/03 16:16]  Zobeid Zuma: Heaven knows I have strong opinions about how the inventory window should be remade. 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:16]  Scarp Godenot: almost exclusively
[2010/08/03 16:16]  Serendipity Seraph: unless you do your own viewer..
[2010/08/03 16:16]  Scarp Godenot: ha ha
[2010/08/03 16:16]  Morgaine Dinova: And most FOSS devs are sane enough not to sign the CA, because it waives away their GPL freedoms and rights.
[2010/08/03 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Morg, Ireally really really hope that LL gets some sense and drops that stupid requirement — and, at the same time, get the QA team out of Snowglobe 😛
[2010/08/03 16:17]  Morgaine Dinova: Hehe
[2010/08/03 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: really!
[2010/08/03 16:17]  Zobeid Zuma: CA?
[2010/08/03 16:17]  Serendipity Seraph: some of the other viewers seem worse now not in comparison but becaule of other changes in world (tho I don’t know what those might be)
[2010/08/03 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean it…
[2010/08/03 16:17]  Morgaine Dinova: Zob: Contributors Agreement
[2010/08/03 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, it’s the more stupid thing LL ever came up with 😛
[2010/08/03 16:17]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: well
[2010/08/03 16:18]  Serendipity Seraph: like Emerald takes much longer to resolve textures the first time now
[2010/08/03 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: one of them 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:18]  Extropia DaSilva: I thought it was the name?
[2010/08/03 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah… I wonder if that’s because Emerald was forced to use OpenJPEG too?
[2010/08/03 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (that too, Extie!)
[2010/08/03 16:18]  Scarp Godenot: BTW, very soon viewer 2.1 will be implementing a new way to load textures that promises to be way faster. We will soon see.
[2010/08/03 16:18]  Serendipity Seraph: why openjpeg? known to be slower I thought?
[2010/08/03 16:18]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes…. well… LL’s own library is licensed code
[2010/08/03 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: but most viewers couldn’t care less about that lol
[2010/08/03 16:19]  Extropia DaSilva: ‘What do we call it? I know, something that will give everyone a real good time making comments like ;lolz I have a life already ahahaha’.
[2010/08/03 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: except for Imprudence
[2010/08/03 16:19]  Morgaine Dinova: Yep, it’s daft. LL makes the source open, and then erects a CA roadblock so they are not free to use the product of open development. It it weren’t so ridiculous, it would be funny.
[2010/08/03 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *nods* @ Extie
[2010/08/03 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Morg, I hope we’ll all laugh about that in 2020 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:19]  Extropia DaSilva: I would have called it LandOfLag.
[2010/08/03 16:19]  Morgaine Dinova: /me chuickles
[2010/08/03 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Extie 😀
[2010/08/03 16:19]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: LagWorld
[2010/08/03 16:19]  Scarp Godenot: I think that is going to change Morg
[2010/08/03 16:19]  Serendipity Seraph: well, if I don’t give changes back to LL does the CA apply?
[2010/08/03 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: No.
[2010/08/03 16:20]  Morgaine Dinova: No
[2010/08/03 16:20]  Scarp Godenot: Philip said as much in that speech.
[2010/08/03 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: Or a trendy misspelling like Rezdistrezz.
[2010/08/03 16:20]  Morgaine Dinova: Which means that everyone is free to benefit from open source, except Lindens. Go figure, lol.
[2010/08/03 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s completely backwards!
[2010/08/03 16:20]  Morgaine Dinova: /me shakes head in disbelief
[2010/08/03 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *shakes head*
[2010/08/03 16:20]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: too
[2010/08/03 16:20]  Extropia DaSilva: ….what is, sorry?
[2010/08/03 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re supposed to open source a project so that you can *benefit* from it, Extie 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If not, what’s the point??
[2010/08/03 16:21]  Morgaine Dinova: You’d think 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, well 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:21]  Serendipity Seraph: I am not sure why but opensim core devs are very shy of people that have played much with snowglobe.
[2010/08/03 16:21]  Scarp Godenot: The proof is in the puddding, we will see if LL is going to put up or shut up.
[2010/08/03 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: really?
[2010/08/03 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Scarp
[2010/08/03 16:21]  Extropia DaSilva: So others benefit from it? Not that I am against someting being entirely for MY beneft, Far from it.
[2010/08/03 16:21]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wasn’t it always like that? hehe
[2010/08/03 16:22]  Serendipity Seraph: yes. fear of some license mess ups I guess. probably overly paranoid
[2010/08/03 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Paranoid with a capital P. Not even *Microsoft* is that paranoid on their open source projects!
[2010/08/03 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: (which are few 🙂 )
[2010/08/03 16:22]  Serendipity Seraph: mono is that paranoid
[2010/08/03 16:22]  Morgaine Dinova: Yeah, Opensim have a contribution problem too, and in some ways it’s worse. But Opensim can get forked if they don’t sort themselves out, so that’s self-correcting.
[2010/08/03 16:22]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: is it? Hmm
[2010/08/03 16:23]  Serendipity Seraph: realxtend
[2010/08/03 16:23]  Scarp Godenot: I think you would have to admit that their is a change of focus at the Lab, right Gwyn? As evidenced by massive firings and their actually saying so?
[2010/08/03 16:23]  Extropia DaSilva: Sorry could you please explain what you are talking about?
[2010/08/03 16:23]  Morgaine Dinova: Oops. We’re going off-topic. Well spotted Extie.
[2010/08/03 16:23]  Extropia DaSilva: I am too lazy to scroll up and find out for myself.
[2010/08/03 16:23]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes yes Scarp
[2010/08/03 16:23]  Serendipity Seraph: *scratches head* searching..
[2010/08/03 16:23]  Extropia DaSilva: No I do not mind.
[2010/08/03 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: All this was quite unexpected really. *Something* happened at the Lab, and we’ll never know what it was.
[2010/08/03 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the change *was* for the better.
[2010/08/03 16:24]  Serendipity Seraph: I think they looked at their cashflow and went “oh SHIT”
[2010/08/03 16:24]  Extropia DaSilva: I just do not quite understand what you are saying, only some vague notion that somebody did something wrong and open source was involved.
[2010/08/03 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And in a sense, I’m personally happy that Philip somehow is embodying that change 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:24]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that seems the most obvious explanation, Seren…. but the question is then: why now?
[2010/08/03 16:25]  Scarp Godenot: I think it wasn’t their cashflow, it was that their so called plan to get more users failed.
[2010/08/03 16:25]  Serendipity Seraph: some OS projects are very paranoid of anyone that has even read code with a less open license participating at contributor level. they worry about possible lawsuit
[2010/08/03 16:25]  Morgaine Dinova: Extie: well as a quick summary, LL have a roadblock on using contributions from open souce devs, and it’s limiting their rate of progress. It actually preceded M, so we can’t lay that at his door.
[2010/08/03 16:25]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Did they set M Linden too high goals, and when he missed them all, they simply kicked him out? But then why did they kick out so many Lindens, some of them their best developers and community managers?
[2010/08/03 16:26]  Extropia DaSilva: Somebody asked Philip ‘can Sl get back to its original vision’? Did it ever HAVE one? Reading Au’s book, I get the impression LL has been kind of making up the point of Sl as they go along. It never really had a specific ‘vision’.
[2010/08/03 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would have understood kicking out all the Business division 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:26]  Serendipity Seraph: I think part was they wanted to close some remote offices and people didn’t want to move
[2010/08/03 16:26]  Serendipity Seraph: but don’t know
[2010/08/03 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually Philip himself tends to admit that, Extie…
[2010/08/03 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Seren… even that doesn’t make sense…
[2010/08/03 16:26]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: You see hmm
[2010/08/03 16:26]  Morgaine Dinova: Gwyn: I can only imagine that they were about to go bankrupt. The measure was too harsh for anything else.
[2010/08/03 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: While it’s true that most Lindens worked at an office,
[2010/08/03 16:27]  Serendipity Seraph: sure. every business changes as it goes to match what is actually happening
[2010/08/03 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: their “studios” — the internal name for the teams — had team members all around the world.
[2010/08/03 16:27]  Extropia DaSilva: That is why, when asked to summarise Sl ina nustshell much headscratching ensues.
[2010/08/03 16:27]  Scarp Godenot: They weren’t about to go bankrupt, where did you get that idea.
[2010/08/03 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the studios were not groups of people in the same physical location.
[2010/08/03 16:27]  Serendipity Seraph: there SL in a box enterprise initiative fell totatlly lame
[2010/08/03 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: If closing the offices was important for them,
[2010/08/03 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: they simply could have them all telecommuting.
[2010/08/03 16:27]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: After all… this IS Sl!
[2010/08/03 16:28]  Serendipity Seraph: offices can be very very expensive real estate
[2010/08/03 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’re *supposed* to learn how to work in VWs 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, dump the offices then
[2010/08/03 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: And let them telecommute
[2010/08/03 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Internally, there would be no difference
[2010/08/03 16:28]  Morgaine Dinova: Scarp: no evidence at all, but how else can you justify DESTROYING your teams, and firing the techies that understand your code especially?
[2010/08/03 16:28]  Serendipity Seraph: I agree. making all their offices virtual would be interesting and eating own dogfood. 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:28]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Morg, That’s what I completely fail to understand!
[2010/08/03 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Obviously, Seren… in fact, it’s ironical that a lot of content creator companies made the same mistake too 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, aren’t they supposed to be selling VW solutions? 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:29]  Scarp Godenot: Morg, I explain it that their previous direction, that of expanding and competing with web based social networks failed
[2010/08/03 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: So why aren’t they using the same solutions they sell? 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:29]  Scarp Godenot: So they reworked their whole direction
[2010/08/03 16:29]  Morgaine Dinova: That’s why I can only come up with “about to go bankrupt”. It had to be something that terrible to justify such extreme measures.
[2010/08/03 16:29]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: But Scarp, the question is — why the apparently random firing?
[2010/08/03 16:30]  Morgaine Dinova: Scarp: they didn’t just fire their webheads though
[2010/08/03 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, shutting down some offices would explain why a few people would have to leave…
[2010/08/03 16:30]  Scarp Godenot: It failed because they were not getting new adopters.
[2010/08/03 16:30]  Serendipity Seraph: 30% reductions usually are from some major initiative failing or a big hit of unexpected expense
[2010/08/03 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *nods* @ Seren
[2010/08/03 16:30]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well ONE major initiative failed — SL Enterprise.
[2010/08/03 16:30]  Scarp Godenot: And they were in danger of losing their core users, due to not paying attention to their concerns for a long period of time.
[2010/08/03 16:30]  Serendipity Seraph: or the down economy is eating people willing to pay through the nose for land
[2010/08/03 16:31]  Extropia DaSilva: OK with one minute to go…
[2010/08/03 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be an obvious explanation, Seren, butt he landmass keeps growing…
[2010/08/03 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: *but the
[2010/08/03 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: granted, not as fast as some might want.
[2010/08/03 16:31]  Extropia DaSilva: Anyone care to make a summing up statement about the individual in SL or the return of el presidente?
[2010/08/03 16:31]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: and almost all growth happened outside the mainland.
[2010/08/03 16:31]  Serendipity Seraph: seems like 25% of the new sites I hear of and visit are gone
[2010/08/03 16:32]  Scarp Godenot: I think Philip and the Board realized they could NOT take their installed user base for granted. And that to keep them they needed to be the leader in VR world platform. So they refocused on the Goose that layed the Golden egg.
[2010/08/03 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I actually hope you’re right, Scarp.
[2010/08/03 16:32]  Serendipity Seraph: Individuals *are* important but Rosedale may not be the key to turning this around
[2010/08/03 16:32]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: The future of SL is *NOT* the newbies!
[2010/08/03 16:33]  Serendipity Seraph: mesh is critical. if it doesn’t arrive in 6 months look for ways to move elsewhere
[2010/08/03 16:33]  Extropia DaSilva: OK and with that…my time is up!
[2010/08/03 16:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. I actually wonder if *anybody* could “turn this around” 😉
[2010/08/03 16:33]  Zobeid Zuma: What I thought was funny was all the social networking thingies with a bit of 3D chat that thought they were going to be SL killers. 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Seren, and Philip’s speech was not very inspiring in that regard 😦
[2010/08/03 16:33]  Extropia DaSilva: I think poem first this time, then next week.
[2010/08/03 16:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Zo — well said!
[2010/08/03 16:33]  Morgaine Dinova: Extie: I would just say about his return: “Every little bit helps”
[2010/08/03 16:33]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: true!
[2010/08/03 16:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: well put, Morg!
[2010/08/03 16:34]  Scarp Godenot: I think LL now knows that if something better comes along with cheaper land rental prices, they are screwed. Their ONLY protection from being screwed is to maintain technology leadership in the longer term.
[2010/08/03 16:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well….
[2010/08/03 16:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hate to repeat myself, Scarp…
[2010/08/03 16:34]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: … but for the past 6 years I’ve always said that this would never happen 🙂
[2010/08/03 16:34]  Morgaine Dinova: Scarp: OMG, if they actually knew that, things would be fine. But sadly, I don’t think that’s so.
[2010/08/03 16:34]  Serendipity Seraph: well, even if opensim had everything now in tech it takes at least a year to grow a living virtual ecology sufficiently to work for the majority of users
[2010/08/03 16:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: A year is not enough.
[2010/08/03 16:35]  Extropia DaSilva: ‘Tolstoy said the individual/is really of no use at all/ I say without Gwyn and her lovely red head/ Second Life is as good as dead/ So that debunks that Tolstoy stuff/ Now wait for Gwyn to react with ‘pfffft’.
[2010/08/03 16:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: A year *after copying all content over to OpenSim* would be enough!!!
[2010/08/03 16:35]  Scarp Godenot: Yes, leadership is not only in tech, leadership is also in culture and users.
[2010/08/03 16:35]  Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Extie!!!!

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2 Responses to THINKERS 3rd AUGUST 2010: COMETH THE MAN.

  1. Aww you took a really great picture of me, but I don’t understand why you posted it! lol

  2. Because this session of Thinkers asked if the individual makes a difference in SL, and I consider you to be an individual who made a real difference (in a positive way, I should add) to my Second Life. Also, it is a nice picture.

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