[2010/07/06 15:34] Extropia DaSilva: welcome to Thinkers!
[2010/07/06 15:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you 🙂
[2010/07/06 15:34] Extropia DaSilva: Today we are discussing the decision by LL to ban nudity at its annual birthday event. Question #1 is probably….WHY?
[2010/07/06 15:35] Zobeid Zuma: Or conversely, why not?
[2010/07/06 15:35] Lem Skall: question is: why still do it if they stopped focusing on enterprise and are refocusing on consumers?
[2010/07/06 15:36] Zobeid Zuma: Maybe they don’t want to make a bad impression on. . . . consumers.
[2010/07/06 15:36] Scarp Godenot: Well, of course what we are NOT discussing is do they have the right to do it. We ARE discussing whether it is smart or dumb to do that.
[2010/07/06 15:36] Lem Skall: that used to be the excuse
[2010/07/06 15:36] Extropia DaSilva: *Snuggles up with Seren*
[2010/07/06 15:36] Serendipity Seraph: hello, darling! *pounce* *kiss*
[2010/07/06 15:36] Lem Skall: Zo, the consumers are those who are trying to expose themselves
[2010/07/06 15:36] Ai Striatus: I’m not very sure on this, but the last time I went on SL there were only the PG and Mature rating, I assumed the new Adult rating would make a ban null.
[2010/07/06 15:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well…. enterprise, education, puritans living next door… we cannot avoid the crowd lol
[2010/07/06 15:36] Serendipity Seraph: hey all
[2010/07/06 15:36] Ai Striatus: Hey, Pocky.
[2010/07/06 15:36] Lem Skall: of course they have the right to do it, they OWN SL
[2010/07/06 15:36] Rosie Gray: I think they’re trying to offset some of the negative press they’ve had in the past
[2010/07/06 15:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hiya Seren!
[2010/07/06 15:37] pockylinelle Nakamura: aallo, yay them rezzings
[2010/07/06 15:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello pocky 🙂
[2010/07/06 15:37] pockylinelle Nakamura: wavewave!
[2010/07/06 15:37] Extropia DaSilva: But artists have long portrayed the nude and, at least as far as I know, displaying a nude painting or sculpture does not give your gallery a cerificate X rating.
[2010/07/06 15:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I think that ultimately you’re right, Rosie… it’s the only reason really 🙂
[2010/07/06 15:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Depends, Extie!
[2010/07/06 15:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Stranger tales have been told…
[2010/07/06 15:38] Scarp Godenot: There are standards of non censorship in the art world. If second life is, as they claim, a world, there are going to be different views on what is offensive. Not one view catering to the most restrictive view.
[2010/07/06 15:38] Zobeid Zuma: A nude painting or sculpture isn’t the same as a person walking around and interacting. It is — somehow — different. It makes a different impression.
[2010/07/06 15:38] Rosie Gray: true Extropia, but usually the patrons of the gallery don’t come with their dicks hanging out
[2010/07/06 15:38] Lem Skall: I don’t think the press ever cared about sculptures that show nipples, they complained about people having sex in public
[2010/07/06 15:38] Extropia DaSilva: So like, if I were to pose as Venus in the Boticelli painting, LL would ban my exhibit?
[2010/07/06 15:38] Serendipity Seraph: and if we just declare Adult then a lot of traffic wonder bother with proving they are adult or won’t see us in search because they didn’t set their preferences
[2010/07/06 15:38] Lem Skall: Extie, yes
[2010/07/06 15:38] Khannea Suntzu: The whole debate onl sexual expression, conservatism of sexual values is one of supply and demand. I cannot question the legitimacy of people being offended – maybe I can, but people are sincerely offended by certain content, and that begs respect.
[2010/07/06 15:39] Rosie Gray: /me nods
[2010/07/06 15:39] Khannea Suntzu: What is simply the case is a matter of supply and demand. There is more demand for conservatism and restraint
[2010/07/06 15:39] Serendipity Seraph: the entire term “Adult” as been casts unfortunately as “all sleaze allowed or this way to get laid”. those not here for those things may simply avoid or not bother to be able to see “Adult” areas
[2010/07/06 15:39] Lem Skall: is a nude sculpture really about sexual expression?
[2010/07/06 15:39] Scarp Godenot: Here is where LL went wrong in my opinion. They should have had both pg and moderate sims at their birthday event. Moderate does allow artistic nudity. That would have solved that problem. They have done this in the past, why not now?
[2010/07/06 15:40] Khannea Suntzu: However that will change. Statements of a sexual nature are set to explode in quality, and will be more compelling – hence the balance will skew sharply towards less conservatist influence over more explicit things.
[2010/07/06 15:40] Qie Niangao: Scarp, have they done that at birthdays in the past? or at Burning Life?
[2010/07/06 15:40] Serendipity Seraph: one’s offence should not be allowed to constrain another’s freedom
[2010/07/06 15:40] Rosie Gray: I agree Serendipity, and I’ve always been very annoyed that the term “adult” has come to mean porn, or something close to it
[2010/07/06 15:40] Lem Skall: Qie, they didn’t but they should have
[2010/07/06 15:40] Scarp Godenot: Adult does mean porn in sl terms.
[2010/07/06 15:40] Zobeid Zuma: That sounds like a non sequitur, Khannea.
[2010/07/06 15:41] Extropia DaSilva: wb Gwyn.
[2010/07/06 15:41] Serendipity Seraph: so if I am wearing no clothes then I am porn?
[2010/07/06 15:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[2010/07/06 15:41] Rosie Gray: lol
[2010/07/06 15:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me was probably kicked out for showing too much flesh
[2010/07/06 15:41] Extropia DaSilva: You soon are if you are alone with me, Seren;)
[2010/07/06 15:41] Scarp Godenot: Serendipity: LL would say you were porn if you were not wearing clothes, yes.
[2010/07/06 15:41] Lem Skall: Seren, let’s try and let me be the judge of it
[2010/07/06 15:41] Qie Niangao: well, I don’t think sex, or even porn, has to be off-limits to artisitic expression
[2010/07/06 15:41] Serendipity Seraph: omg darling where did you get that old fashioned writing device?
[2010/07/06 15:41] Peer Infinity: hi everyone 🙂
[2010/07/06 15:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hiya Peer!
[2010/07/06 15:42] Extropia DaSilva: From Khannea.
[2010/07/06 15:42] Zobeid Zuma: Hi Peer!
[2010/07/06 15:42] Scarp Godenot: Hi peer
[2010/07/06 15:42] pockylinelle Nakamura: hi hi!
[2010/07/06 15:42] Extropia DaSilva: Hello Peer!
[2010/07/06 15:42] Serendipity Seraph: I am not nude I am furry, sez peer
[2010/07/06 15:42] Ai Striatus: On the flip side, is it appropiate to walk around with a six foot poorly rendered penis and call that fair nudity.
[2010/07/06 15:42] Serendipity Seraph: hey peer!
[2010/07/06 15:42] Extropia DaSilva: And hello Pocky
[2010/07/06 15:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, why is “fur” not “treated” as “skin” for the purposes of nudity? hehe
[2010/07/06 15:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Specisim!
[2010/07/06 15:42] Ai Striatus: Lol
[2010/07/06 15:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We humans demand equal rights!
[2010/07/06 15:42] Extropia DaSilva: It was in Star Wars, Gwyn. Fox executives worried over Chewbacca not wearing any pants.
[2010/07/06 15:42] Peer Infinity: I agree. Everyone should be allowed to be nude 🙂
[2010/07/06 15:42] pockylinelle Nakamura: yeps, i have a friend that is nude all time, uses tiny animal avies for pg sims haha
[2010/07/06 15:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2010/07/06 15:43] Extropia DaSilva: Strictly speaking, a nude avatar is wireframe;)
[2010/07/06 15:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh I have a much nicer idea.
[2010/07/06 15:43] Rosie Gray: lol
[2010/07/06 15:43] Rosie Gray: nude down to your wires
[2010/07/06 15:44] Scarp Godenot: Let us first look at what was banned at the birthday event. a photgraph of a plastic barbie doll and an image of art that had not as a focus, but as a minor part of it, a nipple.
[2010/07/06 15:44] Zobeid Zuma: I run into a couple of nudists. . . non-furry ones. . . regularly during my SL week. And I’m not offended. Not exactly offended, not as such. But it is. . . distracting.
[2010/07/06 15:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You know that on the Teen Grid, your avatar *automatically* has underclothes, you cannot detach them.
[2010/07/06 15:44] Lem Skall: is a nude robot offensive?
[2010/07/06 15:44] Extropia DaSilva: ‘omg he flashed his polygon!’
[2010/07/06 15:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… what about having a special setting on the viewer,
[2010/07/06 15:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: a “PG mode”
[2010/07/06 15:44] Serendipity Seraph: so who the heck banned this? what person or committee?
[2010/07/06 15:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which would place automatically some underwear on avatars?
[2010/07/06 15:44] pockylinelle Nakamura: ha! extropia! that is like saying human ppl naked would be just the skull, no? unsure 😛
[2010/07/06 15:44] Extropia DaSilva: No no Gwyn, finally every schoolboy’s dream…the X-ray specs!
[2010/07/06 15:45] Ai Striatus: Rofl
[2010/07/06 15:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So puritans could simply click that checkbox and they wouldn’t have any more problems
[2010/07/06 15:45] pockylinelle Nakamura: yes!
[2010/07/06 15:45] Extropia DaSilva: ..Yes I suppose it would Pocky.
[2010/07/06 15:45] Serendipity Seraph: been around enough naturalist folk that mere nuded doesn’t excite me more than clothing. ok, everything excites me. 🙂
[2010/07/06 15:45] Scarp Godenot: By the way, PG in the movie business is not G. The LL rating is actually the equivalent of the movie business G rating.
[2010/07/06 15:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.. because the *reverse* already exists… a spceicl 3rd party client that does not render clothes, just the skin
[2010/07/06 15:45] Rosie Gray: wouldn’t it be awfully boring if everyone were nude? I mean, then where would the excitement be?
[2010/07/06 15:45] Zobeid Zuma: We already have b00b physics in Emerald. . . 🙂
[2010/07/06 15:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
[2010/07/06 15:46] Ataraxia Azemus: It’s fun when they lag, too.
[2010/07/06 15:46] Scarp Godenot: Rosie: Nudists still have sex, so I’m guessing the excitement would still be there…. heh
[2010/07/06 15:46] Serendipity Seraph: why should mere skin be exciting? only can be if the only time you see it is when sex is about to happen so you associate the two. simple conditioning
[2010/07/06 15:46] Ai Striatus: Maybe you should look for different ways of excitement, lol. 🙂
[2010/07/06 15:46] Lem Skall: early on, in my SL life, I ended up by mistake in a nudist bar and I felt awkward being all dressed up
[2010/07/06 15:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But really, I think that LL should do that, just click on a checkbox, and all avatars will be shown with boring white underwear.
[2010/07/06 15:46] pockylinelle Nakamura: there is actually a pg mode to not be able to remove your own underwear, idk how it was intended, maybe for demonstrations or watever, them hidden advanced functions ha.
[2010/07/06 15:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: pocky, I just saw that on the Teen grid!
[2010/07/06 15:47] pockylinelle Nakamura: yes ser! bedroom limit watnot, while naked is just, comfy often, not a big deal.
[2010/07/06 15:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Does it work here too?
[2010/07/06 15:47] Serendipity Seraph: I like that idea gwyn
[2010/07/06 15:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me takes a look at the Advanced settings
[2010/07/06 15:47] Qie Niangao: avatars, statues, paintings… chat text
[2010/07/06 15:47] Khannea Suntzu: Non squitor, at first glance… listen… say, a part of society had an objection to eating pork. Then pork consumpyion would be curtailed. However now a genius invents Bacon. Demand for pork increases despite objections from non-porkists. More pork is consumed from demand side. The same will happen with porn. Porn will quickly -avatar-ize and become so compelling deamd will displace ‘demand destruction’.
[2010/07/06 15:47] Lem Skall: it’s funny also how LL has defined nudity with bare nipples
[2010/07/06 15:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Porn, pork… I see where you’re heading 🙂
[2010/07/06 15:48] Serendipity Seraph: so if I have an avatar infant and breastfeed in SL is that Adult?
[2010/07/06 15:48] Extropia DaSilva: Thing is, has there ever been a case where anyone made an issue about nude avatars? And I do not mean nude kiddy avatars engaging in sex…just nude adult avatars?
[2010/07/06 15:48] pockylinelle Nakamura: why the heck were you on the teen grid 😛 also yes it does, there rly is one toggle pg in the advance menus. the intent is probly for demonstrations, unsure
[2010/07/06 15:48] pockylinelle Nakamura: lol, did they allow male nipples or no? haha
[2010/07/06 15:48] Lem Skall: oh yes, Seren
[2010/07/06 15:48] Khannea Suntzu: Yah Iam doing a series on the topic on my blog.
[2010/07/06 15:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: possibly, for an Islam fundamentalist, Seren 🙂
[2010/07/06 15:48] Rosie Gray: it’s a similar situation on Facebook… there is a group to protest the banning of images of mothers breast-feeding
[2010/07/06 15:48] Scarp Godenot: A real problem with art in Second Life is that the Lab has specifically avoided defining and protecting art. There is sort of a don’t ask don’t tell policy right now going on here. This leaves people like me wondering if I should move my sim to Zindra……
[2010/07/06 15:49] Extropia DaSilva: Go all the way, Khannea, give us a URL to go wth your plug;)
[2010/07/06 15:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not surprised, Rosie 😛
[2010/07/06 15:49] Qie Niangao: Scarp: why not?
[2010/07/06 15:49] Serendipity Seraph: yes, Rhianon got refused entry to some philosophy discussions if she showed up nude as she usually is
[2010/07/06 15:49] Zobeid Zuma: But maybe porn has to be controlled *because* it’s compelling. What then? 🙂
[2010/07/06 15:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Zob
[2010/07/06 15:49] pockylinelle Nakamura: ext, there was for me once, a neighbor of the pqe sim that had too much rights, rights that were removed after it happened.
[2010/07/06 15:49] pockylinelle Nakamura: ejection/ban is just, violence 😛
[2010/07/06 15:49] Scarp Godenot: Well, I would have to sell it first and then buy another and that would cost me a lot of money for starters.
[2010/07/06 15:49] Lem Skall: ok, let’s all get naked here
[2010/07/06 15:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’re all adults here, why should LL become our foster parents?
[2010/07/06 15:49] Ataraxia Azemus: The forbidden is exciting.
[2010/07/06 15:50] Ai Striatus: You first, Lem, lol.
[2010/07/06 15:50] Scarp Godenot: Any have you ever tried to move and reassemble 15000 prims worth of build?
[2010/07/06 15:50] Khannea Suntzu: actualy I am wearing just what I wanna wear
[2010/07/06 15:50] Lem Skall: tsk, it was worth a try
[2010/07/06 15:50] Rosie Gray: yes Ataraxia… that was my point before
[2010/07/06 15:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Scarp: yes 😀
[2010/07/06 15:50] X-Flight, pine X: All Go
[2010/07/06 15:50] Serendipity Seraph: ban is not violence. there are reasons to ban a real nuisance or griefer
[2010/07/06 15:50] Khannea Suntzu: Pervormance art >> http://fetlife.com/users/520991
[2010/07/06 15:50] pockylinelle Nakamura: nopes, 256 is enough 😛
[2010/07/06 15:50] Rosie Gray: yes I have tried
[2010/07/06 15:50] Rosie Gray: lol
[2010/07/06 15:50] pockylinelle Nakamura: crazy job seems
[2010/07/06 15:50] Zobeid Zuma: I don’t see the connection, Gwyn? What did they do that is parental?
[2010/07/06 15:50] Qie Niangao: okay, but what I mean is that, wherever they draw the line, art will find a way to be on the other side of it… so have a fringe festival in Zindra and be done with it.
[2010/07/06 15:50] Extropia DaSilva: BTW did anyone feel uncomfortable about getting nude right now?
[2010/07/06 15:50] Extropia DaSilva: I did.
[2010/07/06 15:51] Rosie Gray: I did too, but I would do it
[2010/07/06 15:51] Zobeid Zuma: What are you referring to, Extie?
[2010/07/06 15:51] Khannea Suntzu: http://khanneasuntzu.wordpress.com/
[2010/07/06 15:51] Extropia DaSilva: Peer did not, aparrently;)
[2010/07/06 15:51] Peer Infinity: /me giggles 🙂
[2010/07/06 15:51] Peer Infinity: /me casually plays with my nipples 🙂
[2010/07/06 15:51] Lem Skall: well, Extie, no one did it when I suggested it
[2010/07/06 15:51] Extropia DaSilva: well, Lem just said we should all get naked right now. But nobody (apart from the bunny) has.
[2010/07/06 15:51] Khannea Suntzu: Hey I am wearing US flag patterned Bikini and nobody notices?
[2010/07/06 15:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2010/07/06 15:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and half a wing!
[2010/07/06 15:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … all inside a pretty white cloud
[2010/07/06 15:52] Khannea Suntzu: They stole mag wing
[2010/07/06 15:52] Serendipity Seraph: oh, I definitely noticed, K. 🙂
[2010/07/06 15:52] Khannea Suntzu: Yah you staring
[2010/07/06 15:52] Lem Skall: maybe we are not offended to see someone naked but we are embarassed to be SEEN naked
[2010/07/06 15:52] Extropia DaSilva: Sooo…even though skin is just another texture, we seem to retain the RL modesty of remaining ‘clothed’.
[2010/07/06 15:52] Ataraxia Azemus: I was too busy oggling Scarp’s carp to notice. Sorry.
[2010/07/06 15:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie, I can only speak for myself, I don’t go nude in public 😉 But it’s not because of “me”, it’s because I don’t wish to offend others.
[2010/07/06 15:52] Ai Striatus: The universe started as a morphing white cloud, then there was grey circle prims.
[2010/07/06 15:52] Rosie Gray: I think we do identify quite strongly with our avatars
[2010/07/06 15:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it’s s social function.
[2010/07/06 15:53] Serendipity Seraph: well, clothes have more variety. and it is a bit monkey backed avatar see monkey back avatar do. blend in and all that..
[2010/07/06 15:53] Extropia DaSilva: My excuse is this getup has so many prims I do not want to spend ages putting it all on again;)
[2010/07/06 15:53] Rosie Gray: so if you don’t mind being naked in public in rl, they you won’t mind in sl
[2010/07/06 15:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe you can save outfits, you know, Extie…
[2010/07/06 15:53] Lem Skall: Gwyn, actually for you (being a professional in SL) I can see good reasons not to get naked
[2010/07/06 15:53] Khannea Suntzu: Yep, some people can be in severe emotional distress after seeing some things I may do in SL, so its prudent I don’t.
[2010/07/06 15:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pretty much so, Rosie!
[2010/07/06 15:53] Extropia DaSilva: Stop making my excuses worthless, Gwyn;)
[2010/07/06 15:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2010/07/06 15:54] Khannea Suntzu: But you have to push the boumdaries. Say, by introducing card core fetish ‘fata morgana’s’ in the Saudi sexual debate, yes?
[2010/07/06 15:54] Rosie Gray: /me digests this
[2010/07/06 15:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is there a Saudi sexual debate? 🙂
[2010/07/06 15:54] pockylinelle Nakamura: ha lem, it was already done mostly in my case, just tons of random prims haha
[2010/07/06 15:55] Peer Infinity: /me doesn’t mind being naked in public in RL 🙂
[2010/07/06 15:55] Scarp Godenot: OK, the question I want to ask is “Should Linden Labs make an accomodation for nudity in art in Second Life, or not.”
[2010/07/06 15:55] Lem Skall: whoa, pocky really is naked, pretty much
[2010/07/06 15:55] Khannea Suntzu: Yes when I log on to facebook the debate starts. I get spammed about 20 times a minute by horny Saudi.
[2010/07/06 15:55] Serendipity Seraph: doesn’t mind being naked generally or having nude folk around
[2010/07/06 15:55] Khannea Suntzu: http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=108904399133065&ref=ts
[2010/07/06 15:55] Extropia DaSilva: I think obviously yes. I understand a fairly famous artist was denied exhibition space because her art had nudity in it. This seems a pity.
[2010/07/06 15:55] pockylinelle Nakamura: lol peer, wish i could, basically. but yea police and watnot, the whole country’s culture here etc
[2010/07/06 15:55] Rosie Gray: I generally don’t like being nude in public
[2010/07/06 15:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My answer to that, Scarp, is “No”, because I don’t recognise LL as being specialists about art — so they wouldn’t have a clue what is art and what is not .
[2010/07/06 15:56] Extropia DaSilva: yeah but they are the ultimate authority.
[2010/07/06 15:56] Lem Skall: pocky, nice choice for the anti-Brazilian
[2010/07/06 15:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah Khannea… right
[2010/07/06 15:56] Scarp Godenot: Extie: not only was her art taken from the birthday event, she was banned from the whole event as well.
[2010/07/06 15:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie, yes, but not on*art*!
[2010/07/06 15:56] pockylinelle Nakamura: sl has no police rly, just the possibility of ar from nudity in pg ha
[2010/07/06 15:56] Khannea Suntzu: More PERVormance art
[2010/07/06 15:57] Rosie Gray: whose art was banned?
[2010/07/06 15:57] Ataraxia Azemus: Oooh nice.
[2010/07/06 15:57] Zobeid Zuma: OK how’s this? 🙂
[2010/07/06 15:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Linden Lab might be the “experts” on SL the platform (and even that is questioned), but they’re not automatically experts on *everything*
[2010/07/06 15:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *definitely* not art
[2010/07/06 15:57] Rosie Gray: ha
[2010/07/06 15:57] Extropia DaSilva: I presume her art was not pornographic or otherwise liable to cause offense?
[2010/07/06 15:57] Rosie Gray: definately not
[2010/07/06 15:57] Peer Infinity: thanks Zobeid 🙂
[2010/07/06 15:57] pockylinelle Nakamura: loool! i was not even thinking of brazil colors having the skin on, it is inventory since forever haha
[2010/07/06 15:57] Qie Niangao: not experts: so all the more reason they need simple (stupid) rules, if there are to be rules at all
[2010/07/06 15:58] Lem Skall: http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/06/sl5b-censors-ar.html
[2010/07/06 15:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “offensive art”. Now that’s a weird concept. The ones perceiving art as being offensive don’t have a clue about what they’re seeing, lol
[2010/07/06 15:58] Scarp Godenot: There WERE police at the sl birthday event. Appointed people whose job it was to go around the sims and enforce the rules with as much power as they wanted.
[2010/07/06 15:58] Khannea Suntzu: So what if I create a swedish nudist group in SL, and depict black & white shots of a nudist colonby in sweden (whetre naked children play happy in the summer heat)
[2010/07/06 15:58] Extropia DaSilva: *Runs a finger down Seren’s bare back*
[2010/07/06 15:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It would be like asking me to identify the medicalk equipment to do brain surgery…
[2010/07/06 15:59] Extropia DaSilva: So is LL’s thinking along the lines of ‘if we agree to this the liberals will then push for that…slippery slope’.?
[2010/07/06 15:59] Zobeid Zuma: I don’t think there’s anything odd about “offensive art”. Trying to shock the audience is a long tradition. Although, one I don’t particularly care for.
[2010/07/06 15:59] Rosie Gray: LL sees everything in black and white
[2010/07/06 15:59] pockylinelle Nakamura: owow scarp, glad i just skip these birthday things, lol sl police.
[2010/07/06 15:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “LL” and “thinking” should not be employed in the same sentence.
[2010/07/06 15:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zob, exactly!
[2010/07/06 16:00] Khannea Suntzu: Yah but you need this devicve just as bad as anyone, Zobi, when push comes to *giggle* shove.
[2010/07/06 16:00] Scarp Godenot: Extie: LL’s thinking is to cater to the extreme prudes of the world, because they fear government interference with them in certain countries…..
[2010/07/06 16:00] Serendipity Seraph: LL responds to cultural and political pressures
[2010/07/06 16:00] Rosie Gray: I blame the religious right
[2010/07/06 16:00] Qie Niangao: but it’s *better* that they see it in black-and-white. better than them making artistic judgements
[2010/07/06 16:00] pockylinelle Nakamura: lold at machine guns. yeps violence is more offensive to me but not for the vast majority, seems.
[2010/07/06 16:00] Serendipity Seraph: I doubt many Lindens give a shit is everyone is PG or not except in designated areas as people
[2010/07/06 16:00] Zobeid Zuma: Let’s be clear now. . . What policy of LL are we really griping about? Because it seems like we’ve sailed way past their SL birthday party thing.
[2010/07/06 16:01] Lem Skall: Scarp, I don’t think government interference had anything to do with that but enterprises did
[2010/07/06 16:01] Khannea Suntzu: LL is just affraid of conservative elements, but MORE affraid to be be dragged in to the limelight by populist news networks. I Fox news made a one week long special ‘A VIRTUAL SODOM AND GOMORRA’ SL would suffer significant poublicity, subscriber and legal consequences.
[2010/07/06 16:01] Extropia DaSilva: Did anyone feel the ban on nudity restricted people’s artistic freedom? I mean, you can create almost ANYTHING or so the theory goes, so I would have thought it hardly mattered at all…
[2010/07/06 16:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “violence is fun, sex is not” — welcome to the 21st century
[2010/07/06 16:01] Rosie Gray: exactly Khannea!
[2010/07/06 16:01] Serendipity Seraph: being rational and non-arbitrary in their policies would be a good start
[2010/07/06 16:01] Scarp Godenot: Well let’s get back to the issue: Linden Lab censoring art by equating it with pornography.
[2010/07/06 16:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … and get lots of new subscriptions too lol
[2010/07/06 16:01] Zobeid Zuma: You guys are talking as if SL is Disneyland.
[2010/07/06 16:01] pockylinelle Nakamura: sl is ruled from the us, think usa laws apply mostly for pg or whatever 😛
[2010/07/06 16:01] Khannea Suntzu: Old media doesnt particularly like Second Life. It is VERY threatening to TV media
[2010/07/06 16:02] Zobeid Zuma: And I don’t see it.
[2010/07/06 16:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear, Khannea
[2010/07/06 16:02] pockylinelle Nakamura: ha gwyn
[2010/07/06 16:02] Lem Skall: Scarp, LL does NOT say it is pornography
[2010/07/06 16:02] Lem Skall: they just ban it
[2010/07/06 16:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It just says it’s forbidden 🙂
[2010/07/06 16:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right
[2010/07/06 16:02] Khannea Suntzu: I know that the actual LL doesnt give a hoot about porn, or even age play.
[2010/07/06 16:02] Serendipity Seraph: like being on Bourbon Street. “only Southern Baptists could make sex this boring and tawdry.”
[2010/07/06 16:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[2010/07/06 16:02] Cosmic Vought: Can one wear an avatar thats wearing a nude bodysuit? 😉
[2010/07/06 16:02] Extropia DaSilva: can you name the online world that bans all nudity/ S.E.C.O.N.D.L.I.F and E….
[2010/07/06 16:02] Scarp Godenot: They equate it with pornograhy Lem in their definitions of PG moderate and adult sims.
[2010/07/06 16:03] Zobeid Zuma: /me probably has one of those in inventory too. . .
[2010/07/06 16:03] Lem Skall: Scarp, quote please
[2010/07/06 16:03] Khannea Suntzu: Their starting offices were next to one of the most visceral porn clubs in Sand Fransisco, Linden street I believe.
[2010/07/06 16:03] Rosie Gray: I think that’s right too, all they care about is negative or positive press, so they can attract more institutions to the platform
[2010/07/06 16:03] Scarp Godenot: Go look at the definitions
[2010/07/06 16:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh Khannea — there is a story in that!!
[2010/07/06 16:03] pockylinelle Nakamura: lol cosmic, just a skin w/ a different-ish head color would be it! haha
[2010/07/06 16:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh
[2010/07/06 16:03] Lem Skall: Scarp, I can’t prove a negative
[2010/07/06 16:03] Serendipity Seraph: they equate it to what someone with $ may object to seeing.
[2010/07/06 16:03] Rosie Gray: yes
[2010/07/06 16:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Probably Steller Sunshine — the first SL resident — joined SL by *mistake*, she actually wanted to go to the porn club next door 🙂
[2010/07/06 16:03] Lem Skall: Ser, exactly
[2010/07/06 16:04] Ataraxia Azemus: Pocky that… is a good idea.
[2010/07/06 16:04] Zobeid Zuma: There we go. . . .
[2010/07/06 16:04] Serendipity Seraph: or to those many who equate SL with “porn n gamblin” only and a desire to escape that image
[2010/07/06 16:04] Lem Skall: Scarp, like Seren says, they only say it is offensive, not porn
[2010/07/06 16:04] pockylinelle Nakamura: i just, skip old media, no tv, so idk, ppl getting influenced maybe, i still do not get why but maybe. reputations and watnot, bla
[2010/07/06 16:04] Extropia DaSilva: Again, how many people visited the SLB events etc and came away thinking ‘yeah it was OK, but not having nude art was a mistake’.
[2010/07/06 16:04] Extropia DaSilva: did anyone CARE?
[2010/07/06 16:05] Lem Skall: I guess IBM cared
[2010/07/06 16:05] Rosie Gray: I didn’t go
[2010/07/06 16:05] Rosie Gray: so I obviously don’t care
[2010/07/06 16:05] Cosmic Vought: nope… dont care 😉
[2010/07/06 16:05] Scarp Godenot: Lem offensive to who? To the sexual puritans, that’s who. WE are talking about sex here.
[2010/07/06 16:05] Lem Skall: I don’t care about anything
[2010/07/06 16:05] Peer Infinity: /me LOLs at Zobeid’s outfit 🙂
[2010/07/06 16:05] Ataraxia Azemus: Haha Zobeid
[2010/07/06 16:05] Zobeid Zuma: I think the discussion is actually pretty funny.
[2010/07/06 16:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me took pictures in front of a Gay Club on Sl7B by mistake — it was bright and shiny 🙂
[2010/07/06 16:05] pockylinelle Nakamura: i did not go, too corporate image thingie/strictness yea idk 😛
[2010/07/06 16:05] Lem Skall: Scarp, offensive to corporations
[2010/07/06 16:06] Rosie Gray: lol, that is funny Zobeid!
[2010/07/06 16:06] Scarp Godenot: Is art offensive to corporations?
[2010/07/06 16:06] Serendipity Seraph: actually there are some scenes I would be offended by if played out in front of me without seeking them out. there probably are such things for everyone.
[2010/07/06 16:06] pockylinelle Nakamura: ha zob, rezzing but seems funny1
[2010/07/06 16:06] pockylinelle Nakamura: *! yay 1
[2010/07/06 16:06] Khannea Suntzu: Linden Lab are out alies in this whole issue. They are in essenvce ptrotecting us and our interests. We shouldnt aim our barns at Lindebn Lab in he sexual assertiveness debate. And we shouldnt antagonize the easily impressed. But what we should do is chip away at xenophobia and eroophobia by constant barrage, untill all these insecurities change in distinterested apathy. Worked in my country, now I see abri bus storms with bare breasted commercials.
[2010/07/06 16:06] Serendipity Seraph: or some scenes I would rather not have in the middle of a meeting focused on other things
[2010/07/06 16:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Scarp… that always reminds me of the big, Puritan corporations I know that are always talking about avoiding SL because “it’s all about porn” when they have nude statues and nude pictures exhibited on their office buildings…
[2010/07/06 16:07] Lem Skall: Scarp, yes, art is offensive to corporations, how did you guess?
[2010/07/06 16:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: erophobia, I like that word!
[2010/07/06 16:07] Ataraxia Azemus: Heh, me too
[2010/07/06 16:07] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[2010/07/06 16:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But they buy art, Lem! And exhibit it on their offices! 🙂
[2010/07/06 16:08] Cosmic Vought: what about corpraphobia? lol
[2010/07/06 16:08] pockylinelle Nakamura: nodnod1 yes ser, for me it is more ppl insulting each other/fights watnot. not nudity.
[2010/07/06 16:08] Ataraxia Azemus: That one’s legitimate.
[2010/07/06 16:08] Lem Skall: right, Gwyn, they HIDE it in their offices
[2010/07/06 16:08] Khannea Suntzu: *giggle* skin of zobi
[2010/07/06 16:08] pockylinelle Nakamura: *ack1, this kb speaks weeerd
[2010/07/06 16:08] Zobeid Zuma: It’s sort of like the old saying, “Give them an inch and they’ll take a mile.” But here in SL we’ve got a mile, and are complaining because we want another inch.
[2010/07/06 16:08] Khannea Suntzu: So funny
[2010/07/06 16:08] Luisa Bourgoin: “eroophobia”, /me learned a new word …
[2010/07/06 16:08] Scarp Godenot: Let me put this art censorship in context with rl art censorship: There is NO serious gallery in the entire western world that would be taken seriously with the policy that Linden Lab asserted on the artists of the birthday event. That is how out of step they are here.
[2010/07/06 16:09] Lem Skall: Scarp, LL is not about art, they are about business
[2010/07/06 16:09] Serendipity Seraph: great point, scarp
[2010/07/06 16:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s true, Zo 🙂
[2010/07/06 16:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lem, they WERE about business… 🙂
[2010/07/06 16:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One wonders what they are about now…
[2010/07/06 16:09] Lem Skall: ok, Gwyn they WERE
[2010/07/06 16:09] Extropia DaSilva: Scarp, you said earlier that LL used to allow nudity by spreading SLB over PG and mature sims. Does anyone know why that changed?
[2010/07/06 16:09] Rosie Gray: they seem to be about getting rid of their customers… us… now
[2010/07/06 16:09] Luisa Bourgoin: out of step they are? staying out of trouble … somehow, call it troublephobia
[2010/07/06 16:09] Scarp Godenot: LL claims that Second Life is a world of diverse interest that is analogous to the world. Are they lying abou that Lem?
[2010/07/06 16:09] Qie Niangao: of course, it’s a birthday party, not a gallery. so… will the same rules apply to LEA (if it survives) ?
[2010/07/06 16:09] Cosmic Vought: Censorship is generally reserved for governments… private individuals can do whatever they want on their property more or less.
[2010/07/06 16:10] Lem Skall: Scarp, yes, marketing is lying in most cases
[2010/07/06 16:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The problem here is that our property is not private 😉
[2010/07/06 16:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2010/07/06 16:10] Khannea Suntzu: Hey zobi, “it puts the lotion on the skin or else it gets the hose again ehh???”
[2010/07/06 16:10] Khannea Suntzu: Whatnoob you skinned?
[2010/07/06 16:10] Serendipity Seraph: it was a bday showing of SL art in part
[2010/07/06 16:10] Ataraxia Azemus: Haha
[2010/07/06 16:10] Serendipity Seraph: yes cosmic
[2010/07/06 16:10] Cosmic Vought: well, you get semi-private land… more akin to a home owners association
[2010/07/06 16:11] Rosie Gray: oh there is absolutely no privacy in SL
[2010/07/06 16:11] Rosie Gray: not really
[2010/07/06 16:11] Scarp Godenot: Let’s not get off track, no one is saying the LL doesn’ t have the RIGHT to do what they did here. We are asking IF what they did was SMART or incredibly STUPID. I vote for the latter.
[2010/07/06 16:11] Zobeid Zuma: I vote for SMART.
[2010/07/06 16:11] Extropia DaSilva: Scarp, why stupid? Zoe: Same question.
[2010/07/06 16:11] Serendipity Seraph: someone can cam in if they like but easy enough to toss automatically unwanted guests, right?
[2010/07/06 16:12] Scarp Godenot: Zobeid, if you think that is smart, then you are voting for people like me to NEVER do the SL birthday event ever again. That goes for many artists that I know.
[2010/07/06 16:12] Khannea Suntzu: I’d say,Linden Lab is sometimes exhibiting signs of siege mentality yes
[2010/07/06 16:12] Lem Skall: Scarp, it was stupid for their relationship with consumers, smart for their relationship with corps, In hindsight, that means it was stupid overall because catering to corps fell apart
[2010/07/06 16:12] pockylinelle Nakamura: smart maybe to save the place or watnot, maybe for the type of event, just, not my thing. smarter if they cared on violence too for these event, but then maybe they do, unsure.
[2010/07/06 16:12] Zobeid Zuma: I’m sure they’ll come up with something for their event.
[2010/07/06 16:12] Serendipity Seraph: stupid if for nothing else than adding fuel to the fire of protest against LL heavy handed BS
[2010/07/06 16:12] Cosmic Vought: I just dont think it will matter one way or the other
[2010/07/06 16:12] pockylinelle Nakamura: but yeps, they hide facts etc.
[2010/07/06 16:13] Extropia DaSilva: Surely your skills with prims enables you artistic expression that goes beyond nudity, Scarp? Why is the ban on nudity worth such a stand?
[2010/07/06 16:13] pockylinelle Nakamura: yay chatlagged tiny
[2010/07/06 16:13] Scarp Godenot: Let’s not forget that the enitire birthday event if built by people like me. It isn’t built by LL. They need to keep in mind just who is making this stuff happen.
[2010/07/06 16:13] Lem Skall: Scarp, YOU are building on LL’s land
[2010/07/06 16:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, artists become more creative with a *few* constrains 😉
[2010/07/06 16:13] Qie Niangao: (except the best stuff at SL7B was by Molly Linden)
[2010/07/06 16:13] Khannea Suntzu: But. in 10 years we will all laigh at this as sony home and google earth and alll those sordid VR’s are routinely overrun with flying penises, and 8 year old kids will wave away the damn Gor spam with total apathy. We are years away from a *virtual* epplosion of porn, procedural, CGI, 3D, high grandular, close up and visceral porn. Fuck it.
[2010/07/06 16:13] Zobeid Zuma: It’s their event, they’re hosting it, they’re putting their name on it, they should be able to decide what sort of image they want to maintain. And I think they made the right choice in that regard.
[2010/07/06 16:13] pockylinelle Nakamura: o stupid then if it is not their own builds, totally changes all
[2010/07/06 16:13] Serendipity Seraph: actually a stand such as scarp suggests is admirable and can be effective if broad and/or public enough
[2010/07/06 16:13] Scarp Godenot: LEM, I am doing them a big fucking favor. Don’t forget that.
[2010/07/06 16:14] Khannea Suntzu: granular? Glandular? Hmmmmm
[2010/07/06 16:14] Lem Skall: Scarp, agreed, and you should stop doing them favors, seriously
[2010/07/06 16:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Khannea… probably you’re right 🙂 There are very, very few social networking sites where I participate with a *real* picture where I’m not being *constantly* bombarded with sex 🙂
[2010/07/06 16:14] Lem Skall: SERIOUSLY
[2010/07/06 16:14] Rosie Gray: what’s the favour you are doing them Lem?
[2010/07/06 16:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … that’s why I love SL so much.
[2010/07/06 16:14] Rosie Gray: sorry I don’t know this history
[2010/07/06 16:15] Lem Skall: Rosie, read Scarp
[2010/07/06 16:15] Serendipity Seraph: I agree they have the right to decide, zoe. they just applied the right in a stupid manner
[2010/07/06 16:15] Scarp Godenot: Well, people like me will keep doing favors IF and ONLY if, there is something in it for us as well. That is what the Lab cannot forget. And if they do, it is to their detriment in the long run.
[2010/07/06 16:15] Serendipity Seraph: we have the right to boycott and complain if we think what they did was obnoxious enough
[2010/07/06 16:15] Lem Skall: Rosie, *I* don’t do LL any favors
[2010/07/06 16:15] Extropia DaSilva: But again, scarp, with all that can be done with prims, scripting etc..what is so important about being able to portray nudity that it is worth giving up content creation full stop rather than be a contributor but not doing nudity?
[2010/07/06 16:15] Rosie Gray: oops sorry Lem
[2010/07/06 16:15] Zobeid Zuma: Keep in mind, I like to hang out in Luskwood too, which is one of the few PG-rated furry areas. For some reason I just don’t *enjoy* going to Northstar and looking at the hypertrophied fatfur pokemorphs. 😛
[2010/07/06 16:15] Rosie Gray: meant Scarp
[2010/07/06 16:15] Lem Skall: Scarp, again, DON’T do any favors
[2010/07/06 16:16] Scarp Godenot: Extropia, art is not art if it is censored. That is just they way it has to be.
[2010/07/06 16:16] Khannea Suntzu: I have been talking to some Saudi – the most extreme country in terms of sexual repression – and the place is SOAKED with hidden porn parties and schoolgirls doing things which would raise some SERIOUS eyebrows here. It’s all a bullshit discussion, it just has to *smirk* sink in with the prudes.
[2010/07/06 16:16] Serendipity Seraph: yes, scarp
[2010/07/06 16:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *nods* @ Khannea
[2010/07/06 16:16] Cosmic Vought: sure it is… i can fill a gallery with picasos and leave out the hustlers
[2010/07/06 16:16] Zobeid Zuma: I heard that laptop computers captured from Al Queda are invariably crammed with porn.
[2010/07/06 16:17] Khannea Suntzu: Hehehehehehehe yes yes yes
[2010/07/06 16:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me is not surprised
[2010/07/06 16:17] Scarp Godenot: Cosmic, there is a HELL of a lot of nudity in picasso paintings.
[2010/07/06 16:17] Khannea Suntzu: Ya cant fucking argue with a billion years of vectored genes.
[2010/07/06 16:17] pockylinelle Nakamura: ha khan, yeps it just stays hidden from ”offendable” ppl’s view
[2010/07/06 16:17] Cosmic Vought: missed the point there scarp 🙂
[2010/07/06 16:17] Extropia DaSilva: Well if it were not nudity, Scarp, there would be something else the rules prohibit. Always is.
[2010/07/06 16:17] Rosie Gray: those Al Queda laptops must be exposing the real misogyny of their owners
[2010/07/06 16:17] Peer Infinity: hi Arisia 🙂
[2010/07/06 16:18] Zobeid Zuma: I don’t doubt it, Rosie.
[2010/07/06 16:18] Khannea Suntzu: The offendable people must be sloooowly acclimitized. Will take a few years.
[2010/07/06 16:18] Luisa Bourgoin: oh my … I will have to sensor this chatlog…
[2010/07/06 16:18] Scarp Godenot: FUck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck…. censor that
[2010/07/06 16:18] Rosie Gray: /me laughs loudly
[2010/07/06 16:18] Zobeid Zuma: Yeah, this event needs a lot of censoring. Dirrrrty! Tsk, tsk!
[2010/07/06 16:19] Luisa Bourgoin: Zob’s artistically provocative outfit … suits toppic!
[2010/07/06 16:19] Serendipity Seraph: primary was stuck on project in SA for 2 months in 85. all the young saudis flew away to Bahrain or Thailand to party hardy every weekend. rendezvous all over the desert around Riyad at night
[2010/07/06 16:19] Luisa Bourgoin: what *exactly* is nudity? can we have it, at all?
[2010/07/06 16:19] Khannea Suntzu: Fucking is an offensive term in he US, but this entertaning amaerianism has lost all impact over here in the netherlands, and it is a fairly mild cursewordd over here.
[2010/07/06 16:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the *only* reason I might see to ‘censor’ nudity is that otherwise it becomes banalised 🙂 And I’m sure the fashion industry won’t be happy about that 😉
[2010/07/06 16:20] Scarp Godenot: Luisa: the hilarious thing about this event we are talking about is that the ‘nudity’ in question was a photograph of a plastic barbie doll with no discernable sexual parts…….
[2010/07/06 16:20] Lem Skall: ah good point, nudity is bad for SL business ;P
[2010/07/06 16:20] Zobeid Zuma: What works best in fashion is to reveal something they don’t *expect* to see. Could be a perfectly innocuous body part.
[2010/07/06 16:20] Ataraxia Azemus: Wait, really?
[2010/07/06 16:20] Extropia DaSilva: Really really.
[2010/07/06 16:20] Ataraxia Azemus: That’s sorta hard to justify as nudity.
[2010/07/06 16:20] pockylinelle Nakamura: ha scarp
[2010/07/06 16:21] Khannea Suntzu: Sexuality is tension. I love covered up.
[2010/07/06 16:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, me too, Khannea 😉
[2010/07/06 16:21] Serendipity Seraph: yeah, that is so bizarre as to be great parody, scarp
[2010/07/06 16:21] Rosie Gray: me too
[2010/07/06 16:21] Rosie Gray: lol
[2010/07/06 16:21] Lem Skall: would nipples be offensive if I wear them OVER my clothes?
[2010/07/06 16:21] Scarp Godenot: So it is a GREAT question to ask ‘what is nudity’ because those interpreting it are using the broadest brush possible. That is one of the many problems here…..
[2010/07/06 16:22] Extropia DaSilva: Yeah Khannea, sex appeal is as much about what the mind IMAGINES you have got, as it is what nature/Sl avatar sculpters REALLY gave you.
[2010/07/06 16:22] Rosie Gray: what would happen if Zobied’s current outfit were worn?
[2010/07/06 16:22] Khannea Suntzu: My fiancee introduced me to a gothic singer, absolutely stunning, Emily Autumn, she is mesmerizing, and she does it best – sometimes very covered up but breathtakingly erotic.
[2010/07/06 16:22] Cosmic Vought: i like covered up, follow quickly by uncovering… best of both worlds 🙂
[2010/07/06 16:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
[2010/07/06 16:22] Khannea Suntzu: And DONT let me start on her amazing attack on the violent nature of sex
[2010/07/06 16:22] Extropia DaSilva: If it is on topic Khannea, you may tell us all about it:)
[2010/07/06 16:22] Khannea Suntzu: It certainly is >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwmKqZGORm8
[2010/07/06 16:23] Luisa Bourgoin: another problem: the perverts are backing away to often. they are supposed to be the more tolerant ones … so their point of standing is assumed to be right behind the prudes
[2010/07/06 16:24] Scarp Godenot: By the Way, this censorship issue at the birthday event DOES apply to the rest of sl, because those doing the enforcing were going by the literal standard of what constitutes a PG or General sim.
[2010/07/06 16:24] Rosie Gray: I don’t think perverts would be “tolerant” of anything
[2010/07/06 16:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They’re ashamed of being perverts, Luisa? 🙂
[2010/07/06 16:24] Rosie Gray: but I guess it depends on your definition of a pervert
[2010/07/06 16:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, of course, Scarp
[2010/07/06 16:24] Khannea Suntzu: Thank God I’m pretty
The occasional free drink I never asked for
The occasional admission to a seedy little bar
Invitation to a stranger’s car
With the ability to rend a grown man tongue-tied
Which only means that when it’s dark outside
I have to run and hide can’t look behind me
Thank God I’m pretty
Thank God I’m pretty
Every skill I ever have will be in question
Every ill that I must suffer merely brought on by myself
Though the cops would come for someone else
I’m truly privilaged to look this good without clothes on
Which only means that when I sing you’re jerking off
And when I’m gone you won’t remember
Thank God I’m pretty
Thank you God
Thank you God
Oh, oh and when a gaggle of faces appears around me
It’s lucky I hate to be taken seriously
I think my ego would fall right through the cracks in the floor
If I couldn’t count on men to slap my ass anymore
I know my destiny’s such, that I’m all stocking and curl
So everybody thinks that I’m a fucking suicide girl
[2010/07/06 16:24] Khannea Suntzu: ou God
For the occasional champagne I never asked for
The occasional admission to a seedy little bar
Invitation to a stranger’s car
With the ability to rend a grown man tongue-tied
Which only means that when it’s dark outside
I have to run and hide can’t look behind me
Thank God I’m pretty
Thank you God!
[2010/07/06 16:24] Khannea Suntzu: sorry a bit long
[2010/07/06 16:24] Serendipity Seraph: yes, scarp. I recommend a giant nude barbie on every sim. 🙂
[2010/07/06 16:24] Luisa Bourgoin: not ashamed … the point of failure is “tolerance”. if you carry arround to much of it, you loose
[2010/07/06 16:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh Khannea 🙂
[2010/07/06 16:25] Rosie Gray: clap clap clap
[2010/07/06 16:25] Khannea Suntzu: But its the most beauutigful song I have heard in a long time
[2010/07/06 16:25] Luisa Bourgoin: btw where are the dancepole anims today?
[2010/07/06 16:25] Rosie Gray: I love that!
[2010/07/06 16:25] Extropia DaSilva: Does that save me the job of writing the end poem, then?
[2010/07/06 16:26] Scarp Godenot: Acres of ‘hot’ smooth plastic barbie crotch… Doesn’t it get you all excited?
[2010/07/06 16:26] pockylinelle Nakamura: *awesome*
[2010/07/06 16:26] Extropia DaSilva: Mmmmm…….barbie crotch…..
[2010/07/06 16:27] Khannea Suntzu: Is ffear of sexuality a displacement trauma of sexual abuse? Or is it envy?
[2010/07/06 16:27] Khannea Suntzu: Or both?
[2010/07/06 16:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: erophobia again mmmh
[2010/07/06 16:27] Ataraxia Azemus: Both/and.
[2010/07/06 16:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wish we had a shrink with us
[2010/07/06 16:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sure this has been studied.
[2010/07/06 16:27] Lem Skall: hehe, just checked and slporn.com is available
[2010/07/06 16:27] Rosie Gray: a shrink would be very useful for this conversation
[2010/07/06 16:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *nods* @ Rosie
[2010/07/06 16:28] Luisa Bourgoin: visit erophobia, SL’s unique giant barbie exhibition(ist) sim
[2010/07/06 16:28] Ataraxia Azemus: A nudist shrink… revealing the naked truth of the human psyche.
[2010/07/06 16:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Ataraxia
[2010/07/06 16:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Dr Freud, you can take your clothes off now”
[2010/07/06 16:28] Extropia DaSilva: Someone bring an Eliza bot powered avatar next week;)
[2010/07/06 16:28] Khannea Suntzu: We cant adress the violence waged upon us, ‘the sexually liberated’, wiithout analyzing themotives of those doing the repressing.
[2010/07/06 16:28] pockylinelle Nakamura: interesting, and yeps probly ppl associating nudity w/ just bedroom etc. ha ata!
[2010/07/06 16:29] Scarp Godenot: Well let me sum up the views of my friends in the SL art world that are into Virtual Reality art for the long haul. We will go to do our art thing where it best suits us, if censorship is the rule of the day, other worlds might be where we will go. This is something that LL is learning. They need to not take their money making people for granted. I myself pay LL thousands a year. That can easily go elsewhere when the time is right.
[2010/07/06 16:29] Khannea Suntzu: Haah yah for sure
[2010/07/06 16:30] Rosie Gray: many people are going elsewhere, or have gone
[2010/07/06 16:30] Serendipity Seraph: actually, pruhishness is a form of perversion. 🙂
[2010/07/06 16:30] Extropia DaSilva: Anyone care to sumarize a defence of disallowing nudity?
[2010/07/06 16:30] Extropia DaSilva: a counterpoint to Scarp’s?
[2010/07/06 16:30] Zobeid Zuma: /me did that a while ago. . .
[2010/07/06 16:30] Serendipity Seraph: and a means of protecting one’s sex partnership form competition perhaps. doesn’t remotely work
[2010/07/06 16:31] Lem Skall: Extie, that would be that corporate SL as opposed to SL art is against the image that nudity gives SL
[2010/07/06 16:31] Serendipity Seraph: and worries about the kids getting all sexual and the daughters dropping babies too soon and such. some bounding up in our long extended childhoods I think
[2010/07/06 16:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LL should learn the lesson from The Pirate Bay: society can throw as many lawyers they want against them, but they have survived *everything*.
[2010/07/06 16:31] Khannea Suntzu: http://www.massively.com/2010/06/19/the-virtual-whirl-a-crisis-of-confidence/
[2010/07/06 16:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seren, less than a century ago, girls would marry with 13 in my country 😛
[2010/07/06 16:32] Luisa Bourgoin: extended childhoods … interesting one!
[2010/07/06 16:32] Extropia DaSilva: OK well a transcript of this discussion will be up on my blog within 24 hours, so if you still have something to say you can leave a reply at extropiadasilva.wordpress.com but for now…MY time is up!
[2010/07/06 16:32] Lem Skall: Gwyn, now they just have sex without getting married
[2010/07/06 16:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True!
[2010/07/06 16:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[2010/07/06 16:32] Khannea Suntzu: What together *smacks lips* ?
[2010/07/06 16:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They did too,
[2010/07/06 16:32] Qie Niangao: thanks, Extropia
[2010/07/06 16:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: they just didn’t brag about it and post it on Facebook and Twitter
[2010/07/06 16:32] Serendipity Seraph: course, should teach kids sex positive stuff whenever they are “ready”, make sure they are protected and not worry what they do with their peers sexually
[2010/07/06 16:32] Zobeid Zuma: Good article. . .
[2010/07/06 16:33] Extropia DaSilva: NEXT WEEK: BETTER OFF BUT MISERABLE: Why is it, that one generation that is better off, materially speaking, is less satisfied with life than the previous, poorer generation?
[2010/07/06 16:33] Ataraxia Azemus: Oh hey, that sounds fun.
[2010/07/06 16:33] Khannea Suntzu: /me smiles softly 🙂
[2010/07/06 16:33] Rosie Gray: good topic
[2010/07/06 16:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aha Extie… mmmh that requires some research 🙂 There is actually someone who HAS answered that question!
[2010/07/06 16:33] Serendipity Seraph: well, I don’t think they are, extie. either better off or less satisfied or both.
[2010/07/06 16:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s evolutionary 🙂
[2010/07/06 16:33] Lem Skall: who says they are less satisfied?
[2010/07/06 16:34] Khannea Suntzu: Neurology.. but I am keeping my answer for next week.
[2010/07/06 16:34] Extropia DaSilva: Susan Greenfield, for one.
[2010/07/06 16:34] Luisa Bourgoin: nor worries! civilisation might soon be on the decline … happiness available again, soon
[2010/07/06 16:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *nods* @ Khannea. I’m sure I saw it somewhere, and recently too
[2010/07/06 16:34] pockylinelle Nakamura: ha ext! idk happy to live cheap personally, but it will be a fun listen if i can make it
[2010/07/06 16:34] Ataraxia Azemus: Haha Luisa
[2010/07/06 16:34] Lem Skall: Susan? what does SHE know?
[2010/07/06 16:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nah, Dark Ages soon
[2010/07/06 16:34] Ataraxia Azemus: That’s probably where I’ll end up going with that.
[2010/07/06 16:35] Lem Skall: Gwyn, why the gloom? and you’re not even from the NEW generation ‘P
[2010/07/06 16:35] Lem Skall: ;P
[2010/07/06 16:35] Khannea Suntzu: I dont think civilization is in decline. In fact I am in an optimistic state and I think we are going to experience, even with permanent unemployment numbers well over 25% in 10 tears the golden age of human abundance.
[2010/07/06 16:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *all* civilisations end, Lem 🙂
[2010/07/06 16:35] Extropia DaSilva: Linden Lab’s gotta ban the nude/ they would not want to offend the prude/ but my friend Scarp will teach them a lesson/ not to prohibit artistic expression/ we should not ban work that is edgy or hot/ or else we might lose Scarp Godenot!!
[2010/07/06 16:35] Luisa Bourgoin: in the dark ages, Barbie would have been on the stakes to burn