THINKERS JUNE 22 2010: SLNETWORKING.
Extropia DaSilva: …Anyway Welcome to Thinkers!
Extropia DaSilva: Today the discussion is SLnetworking…
Extropia DaSilva: The continuing evolution of SL now involves integrating it with social networking sites. But is this really the best strategy, or a step in the wrong direction?
Khannea Suntzu: I hhave a friendly SL Gynaecologist. Visit once a week. He said, hey you are preggers (Pregnancy HUD, random chance each time I am exposed)
Taellinu Aichi is Offline
Peer gives Zobeid a big hug.
Lem Skall: how long is a pregnancy in SL?
Peer Infinity: 🙂
Khannea Suntzu: (I am ahh exposed quite a bit)
Extropia DaSilva: four weeks, Lem. Twice as long as the average marriage.
Khannea Suntzu: You can set that. My metabolism is fastestest at a rate oh ahh (checks)
Taellinu Aichi is Online
Khannea Suntzu: 1SL day= 2 hours. 1:12
Lem Skall: so back on topic, I don’t even know how that integration is going to be
Soft Linden: Someone claimed to have done a study, found that most relationships lasted fewer than 2 months in SL, and were surprisingly often permanent past that point.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow that’s as complex as figuring out how many hours a SL day has.
Extropia DaSilva: Thing is, does LL NEED to integrate SL with social networks, or do we make those connections anyway, when we join FB or whatever and seek out people we know inworld?
LeAnn Artis smiles. Look at all the cute bunnies around me =)
Khannea Suntzu: Hmm yes I have a few thoughts on that
Tama Ahn is Online
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that question starts with a wrong assumption, e.g. that SL has “no social networking” built-in
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But it has!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Groups, IM Cha, Picks, Profiles
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *IM Chat
Lem Skall: anyone has an idea here how SL will be integrated with social networks? what does that mean? not you, Soft
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … and Friends
Soft Linden: (I’m in no way tied to the social networking bits, only curious for others’ views myself, for when these discussions come up)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And… you can also share music, photos, videos
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … and a lot more besides.
LeAnn Artis: I think that majority of the people come here to leave their RL, and LL is trying to integrate RL into SL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And you can do cybersex 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Soooooo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is missing? 🙂
Soft Linden: Does anyone have a feeling for how many people are here to augment RL, and how many are escapists?
Lem Skall: but integrate that with FB? or create something like FB around SL?
Extropia DaSilva: Thank God! For a moment, when Soft turned up, I feared Thinkers might break from tradition and have somebody who knows what they are talking about. But now I rest in peace;)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: More than 25 groups, sure… although I’m in no social networking site with more than that either
Karlaee Dezno: hi
Extropia DaSilva: Well, I assume the integration is with Avatars United.
Lem Skall: soft, are those the only 2 choices?
Soft Linden: And do people’s views on social networking align with that immersionist/augmentwhatsitist division?
Extropia DaSilva: Hello Karlee
LeAnn Artis: I agree the file sharing part would be an awesome thing to add
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Soft, the fun answer is that long-term, the ones that remain are immersionists 😉
Luisa Bourgoin: I do wounder whz residents never developed the connecting bits, HUDs, or webpages
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Short-term, the augmentists are always in the majority.
Khannea Suntzu: Facebook is a simplistic bit of text. Sure its well linked, sure its well organized, but if extrahered to paper, in most cases it would be no more than a plastic wrapper with 4 A4 papers in it. Sure a pile of 3M stickers, but that is IT. Facebook, apart from functionaluty is EXTREMELY overrated. SL on the other hand should not GROVEL DOWN to a facebook style level of a few pieces of paper. Rather, I’d want the reverse. Facebook should be down on its knees with SL, PLEASE mister Lindens can we have interoperable 3D avatars with nice skins and sculpted hair on our site please please, Grovel?
Soft Linden: I suspect that’s true, Gwynneth. Would social networking – finding friends in-world – change that?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You *can* share files…. but… it would require a special viewer 😉 It’s an interesting project, perfectly doable 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well perhaps, Soft
Extropia DaSilva: *Wonders of it is worth digging up Gwyn’s old essay in which she declared Augmentists would rule SL hencforth*
LeAnn Artis: I think its the opposite, Mr. Linden… I would rather my FB friends not know so much of my SL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We used to have things like a list of things we like to do in SL on the profiles (gone in SL 2.X)
Luisa Bourgoin: facebook overrated, SL undervalued, I’ll second that
Soft Linden: I’ve neatly solved this problem by drifting out of contact with most non-SL friends.
Lem Skall: Soft, but it doesn’t matter what we think, what matters is what LL is planning on doing?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: they will rule it short-term 🙂
Khannea Suntzu: Personal choices are nice for inventory, but what interests me is diversity and pluriformity and freedom (without clutter)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: heeh Soft
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Facebook is cool for playing simple games…
Soft Linden: Lem – if LL adds social networking features, I’d really doubt anyone would be forced to use them
Karlaee Dezno: I know I am here to do a bit of both, escape and augument RL a bit..
Gwyneth Llewelyn is playing Verdonia in the background
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My question is… get too much personal things into SL profiles, and what will it do? Encourage more dating? 🙂
Soft Linden: Yeah, I think the aug/imm bit is a continuum, but I’d really bet most clump on the two ends
Luisa Bourgoin: on concept of Alts, you can have both … escapism and business contacts
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I always thought that these things were only used for dating services anyway
Extropia DaSilva: I think a marriage of the two is really useful, though. I like the extra options for keeping in touch that FB provides. And I find SL is useful as a meeting place, where you get to know somebody a bit before you befriend them in FB. I do not accept requests from total strangers like I did on AU.
Khannea Suntzu: http://khanneasuntzu.wordpress.com/2010/06/10/what-if-millions-of-pc-users-just-ready-to-harvest/
Lem Skall: Soft, what I mean is that what the integration will mean is what LL will make of it
Extropia DaSilva: Hello JakeSpeed.
JakeSpeed Northman: Hi, Please carry on, I’m listening
Lem Skall: so, is FB coming to SL or is SL coming to FB?
Khannea Suntzu: LL can afford to not be so bloody defensive, even if it’s a crisis.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I can imagine that adding a “timeline” to people’s profiles would be a fun thing…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “rezzing a prim”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “more lag….”
Extropia DaSilva: I do not think it is FB. I think it is AU.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “oh no, my partner crashed”
Soft Linden: Probably a whole separate discussion – I think you had thoughts on LL and “siege mentality” Khannea?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “why is everybody gray?”
Deebrane String is Online
Lem Skall: ok, Extie, so another question is: is it with FB or is it with AU?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Zobeid Zuma reads the article and contemplates the various efforts to create games inside of SL. . . .
Karlaee Dezno: AU?
Khannea Suntzu: If I say LL has a siege mentality, I am essentially scream her DARE, DOUBLE DARE to LL, to be more proactive in realizing features I care about.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’ll be with Apple’s own social networking site, once APple buys one 😉
Lem Skall: Avatars United
Karlaee Dezno: aa..k..thks
Extropia DaSilva: I have no idea, really, but since LL owns AU already I make an educated guess and say the integration is SL and AU (Avatars United)
Luisa Bourgoin: apple social networking … dunno … since thez would exclude non-apple-products-buyers
Lem Skall: much is changing in LL so not sure what is the future of AU
Filthy Fluno is Online
Soft Linden: What if the extent of integration were enabling LSL games and HUDs to do the whole optional “connect with facebook” thing, letting resis create the types of integration they want?
Soft Linden: Much like a million flash, iPhone, etc apps have today
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Luisa, that comes from ruling the world 😉
Extropia DaSilva: Might have changed since I gave up on it, but unlike FB AU did not keep you up to date with what friends your contacts were making, what posts they were updating etc. You had to manually search that stuff yourself. It did not feel as much like a community as FB does.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aha Soft
Karlaee Dezno: what exactly would be the lets say interest in linking SL & FB? Not sure if I see the connection
Luisa Bourgoin: HUD games and compatibility with Facebook games?
Khannea Suntzu: In 2 years max. I have a facebook, and out comes a new site MugFolder. I then use a bookmarkklet “autogenerate MugFolder progfile from available facebook’ and *presto* I have a Mugfolder. Facebook will be agnashing its teeth. Like digg and the zillion spinoffs of digg.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that falls into the secret dastardly plan being discussed about having client-side plugins 🙂
Lem Skall: so you post from SL to FB? that would be a possibility
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is EASY to do.
Soft Linden: That’s not inside info or anything. That’s me throwing something random out there. I’m curious if some of the consternation is about LL doing it, or about it being done at all.
Lem Skall: I was thinking more in terms of scheduling events in SL through FB
Gwyneth Llewelyn: People do that all the time…
Soft Linden: Ha. I’d kill to be using something like MeetUp as the norm, instead of our broken event system.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I get at least 3-4 invites to SL events through FB every week…
Khannea Suntzu: Facebook right now is ahead of a curve hysterical to standard themselves as a nymity portal. Its obvious as peasoup.
Luisa Bourgoin: pave some infrastructure suitable for integration, and some residents might go on creating
Extropia DaSilva: I get like requests from ‘Joe Smith’ and I am like ‘never heard of you’…click ignore..and then one of my friends in SL is all ‘hey you ignored me’ and I am ‘well I did not know that was your primary did ‘? Ahahhahah:)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Khannea, Facebook is just a glorious game distribution platform 😛
Lem Skall: so Thinkers could be a FB group and we could have threads in FB and schedule the meetings there too
LeAnn Artis: Yeah… to me it seems pointless you already have the choice to do both… and those who want to, do
Gwyneth Llewelyn: why do we need LL to do anything about that, lem? 😛
Zobeid Zuma: You know I have no intention of signing up with FB, right?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have all the tools for doing so *now*
Soft Linden: I get all kinds of FB invites from SL resis who’ve never said “hi” in world. I literally flip a coin on accepting invites. I figure some might be a learning experience, but too many and I lose track of who’s who!
Extropia DaSilva: I thought you already did, Zo?
Lem Skall: Gwyn, because they said they WILL do something about that ;P
Khannea Suntzu: Uhh that is saying, facebook is a honeypot to grab the attentions of low IQ, Low assertiveness, low creativity consumer drones with mitrrors and beads. FAARMVILLE AAAAARGH
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We could even have simultaneous chat transcripts on Facebook…. “no Lindens required”
Extropia DaSilva: You are one of my friends, I am sure.
Zobeid Zuma: Nope, never had any urge to get on FB.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… the only thing I would see as “useful” would be to be able to register to SL using a Facebook account, like they’re doing with OpenID
Extropia DaSilva: Oh. How odd. Not your urge; me thinking we were FB friends already.
Luisa Bourgoin: Khannea really needs a Farmville invitation avalanche 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zob, there are some nice games there 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: right Luisa hehe
Zobeid Zuma: I just recently got Steam for my Mac, so I’m already in game heaven.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: my my, we’re getting popular…. hi all 🙂
SL4observer Lane is Online
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Zob, right!!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But Steam games are more expensive
Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, well, they’re serious games 😉
Khannea Suntzu: What would be smarter. How about a java something plugin, whatever. Install it and I see my SL avatar. Standing. AO. Maybe a few dances. Wave gesture. Simple as that. SL would be the portal for THE avatar-ette. Would be an instant hit. To create an avatar-ette, buy decent hair, animations, clothes, skin. Sounds like a far better honeypot.,
Lem Skall: so just integrate the login? and inherit FB features into SL?
Luisa Bourgoin: oh, right … in my country some 500 group members of social platform used that to stalk college girls … dunno if that is known arround the whole world
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Khannea, like Sorority Life? 😉 hehe
Extropia DaSilva: Do we know it IS FB?
Khannea Suntzu retches up peasoup
Soft Linden: Just curious – do any/many of you segment FB identities with multiple accounts the way so many do with SL accounts?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I do 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have three FB accounts 😀
Khannea Suntzu: I have seven facebooks
Karlaee Dezno: dont even have one…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But only one alt in SL… hehe
Filthy Fluno is Offline
Luisa Bourgoin: zero
Extropia DaSilva: I am actually the one owner of all FB accounts except the ones owned by you guys.
Lem Skall: I have an FB account, hardly visit it
Soft Linden: My Facebook pretty much just mirrors my Twitter account. I haven’t found any special use for FB myself, apart from linking iPhone game high scores with friends.
Khannea Suntzu: http://www.facebook.com/khannea.suntzu
Luisa Bourgoin: dunno … networking …. meeting … people .. iz all overrated
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… I could imagine a few things being slightly useful… 1) When you register for SL, use your Facebook/Yahoo/Google/MS Live/MySpace/whatever account, or an OpenID
Khannea Suntzu: http://www.facebook.com/khannea.suntzu#!/group.php?gid=108904399133065&ref=ts Ohhhoooops
LeAnn Artis: I think when in SL, i have enough interaction… but i would like to see some sort of SL app that would let me see like the search engine, maybe even let me into my inventory… and interact without my av being logged in
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That takes a few moments to implement with RPX 🙂
LaraCroft Akula: hi all
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and 2) once you’ve got your profile linked, have it show up optionally on your Sl profile
Lem Skall: so woul my friends in FB get a posting that “Lem has joined the group so-and-so in SL”?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well you can do that today, Lem 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it just takes a HUD
Lem Skall: “Lem has become friends with Loverboy Einstein”
Karlaee Dezno: seems like two very different apps targeted at two very different audiences.. one is active – SL- live interactions, one is pasive – FB – reaction interactins. still dont see an advantage to link them..
Extropia DaSilva: I have only a few friends, and their updates are more than enough to keep me busy. I cannot imagine what the 50,000 friends people do except switch off and walk away:)
Soft Linden: I don’t think HUDs can enumerate groups – but generally doable – HUD-triggered updates, sure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie: people with no jobs and constantly bored. They love FB!
Lem Skall: Gwyn, only if I make them FB friends, not is I make them SL friends
Khannea Suntzu: Lower the bloody treshold for the under IQ 1100 crowd to wander in SL. Create bloody solid arguments to NOT wander out.
Khannea Suntzu: 110
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, I see, Lem!
Extropia DaSilva: You have a job and are never bored, Gwyn.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, so, profile linking, that would be something.
Jack Arnica: i would never mix my SL with my RL and cant see the point
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why I don’t see much point in Facebook, Extie 🙂
Khannea Suntzu: Facebook is a phase.
Soft Linden: There are already a handful of apps for linking FB profiles and finding friends. They don’t seem to get much use.
Extropia DaSilva: But you are always on it, posting this and that. More posts than I make, anyway.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A long one, though, Khannea…
Khannea Suntzu: It lasts 2-3 years, then it dies. Or evolves.
Lem Skall: so you could also see that someone and you have 10 friends in common, that would be interesting
LeAnn Artis: But i wouldnt want my grandmother asking who “loverboy einstein” is either…. not sure i want to link my worlds still…
Soft Linden: Well, it’s a HUGE phase. If we could have 1/10th of 1% of FB users, we’d be in great shape. :3
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I used to, Extie, not any longer 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Depends, Soft
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You don’t want users; you want *paying* users.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (remember, FB is *not* profitable 😉 )
Khannea Suntzu: Ah come on I see open doors in facebook. Add something like the brain to facebook. Topical, personal, etc. It would suddenly be ten times as interesting.
Karlaee Dezno: problem is SL is looked at by the outside world as a ‘Game’…
Soft Linden: A lot of resis create value without paying. But sure, we do want valuable resis.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It will be… one day…
Luisa Bourgoin: Fb carrys the wrong type of customer?
Jack Arnica: theres a fundamental discrepancy between SL and FB
Lem Skall: Gwyn, remember, FB didn’t lay off 30%
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lem, remember who is behind FB 😛
Khannea Suntzu: Facebook is accesssible to people with low IQs. Its politically incorrect. Myspace, *even lower*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, where their money comes from.
Extropia DaSilva: Is that still the case? That SL is viewed as a game, even after all this time for people to get used to the concept of an ‘online world’?
Khannea Suntzu: Thats what its about
Serendipity Seraph is Online
Jack Arnica: no its not that, khannea
Karlaee Dezno: why all the animosity to FB users?
Luisa Bourgoin: sadly games do better. WoW
Zobeid Zuma: It is mostly a game.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, Extie 🙂 Posting a message that you’re painting your toenails in Facebook is “serious”. If you chat about philosophy in SL, it’s a game. Clear as mud 🙂
LeAnn Artis: if i could use FB to send messages to people in SL… that app i would use, but to be in SL the only asset of the AU or FB would be the file sharing system, anything else is already existing in SL in some way for me
Karlaee Dezno: SL is mostly a game??
Lem Skall: what is an online world?
Soft Linden: Going on the huge sales price of tiny portions of FB, I don’t think anyone involved is losing money, even if it’s not profitable qua company
Jack Arnica: i dont have any annimosity to FB useres
Khannea Suntzu shouts: rhaaah habbo hotel RHAAAH hundred million users RHAAAH
JakeSpeed Northman: There is a way to add credibility to SL and give social networkers an alternative to FB once they tire of playing games …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Soft. So it’s a case where everybody makes money except the company 🙂
Jack Arnica: FB is making tonnes of money
Karlaee Dezno: Khannea seems to
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jake: there are always new games on Facebook!
Lem Skall: how many people make money in FB?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jack: oh really? 🙂 Look at the financial numbers they post 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A lot, Lem.
JakeSpeed Northman: yes, but what about free online education?
Jack Arnica: yeap, it is
Khannea Suntzu: SL mini window on facebook. Come on how hard can that bloody be???
Lem Skall: Gwyn, what percentage?
Luisa Bourgoin: Jake, they built their own networks currently
Extropia DaSilva: Are you supposed to make money in FB, then?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh…. 0.0001%?
Soft Linden: I think you can create a company that doesn’t turn a profit directly, though all parties satisfy their own corporate strategies. It’s a bizarre model, and far from ideal. But I don’t think it’s abd.
Jack Arnica: sorry but atm its the default social networking site
Soft Linden: s/abd/bad/
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Depends on “you”, Extie. The game developers certainly think so 🙂
Karlaee Dezno: since FB has gone corporate.. yes.. you make it part of your marketing program..
Luisa Bourgoin: whats the future vision of FB? what will it become one day?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Soft, it might not be bad while you can extract money from your investors, of course. But I’m always very suspicious about companies that draw their income from speculation on the media 😉
Extropia DaSilva: But it is hardly sold on the dream of making money, like SL once was, right? I mean, for everyone not just the company that OWNS FB and some others that could profit from it?
Soft Linden: +1 Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Luisa: Farmville with a billion useres.
Serendipity Seraph: rezzing slowly.. hey all
Lem Skall: not sure being in SL is about making money either, but that’s a problem, that no one knows really what IT IS about
JakeSpeed Northman: FB will one day be regarded as a ‘Renaissance’, a celebration without cause, a victory without a war
Luisa Bourgoin: sold on the dream .. right, that might be part of the SL crisis
Soft Linden: Generally those look like high-stakes gambles, or invite companies to invest with conditions just meant to exempt them from facing major disruptions. Some companies, it’s borderline extortion.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, Lem! It’s biggest hurdle and most captivating attraction 🙂
Khannea Suntzu: Yes Jack
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jake: … a company without money 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn is a cynic
Khannea Suntzu: A world without air. Like Mars, very promising.
Lem Skall: Gwyn +1
Extropia DaSilva: *Snuggles up with her darling Seren*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Khannea 😉
Khannea Suntzu: *kisskiss sip*
JakeSpeed Northman: Education and learning (not to sound like I’m on a soapbox) used to be vital for society, now it breeds ridicule and contempt
Jack Arnica: sorry but i think FB is the wrong corporate model for SL to be adopting
Soft Linden: Being in SL is like being on the internet. Anyone trying to ascribe just one (or just ten!) goal to it is going to fail.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, jake, you’re so right 😦
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jack, it would be a wonderful one!…
Jack Arnica: this is a 3d immersive world
Extropia DaSilva: why do you think that, Jack?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … assuming well…. that you don’t worry about being owned by the largest email spam company of the world
Luisa Bourgoin: vital functions for society should be connected with public funding
Lem Skall: Jack, not it’s not, no one has concluded that
JakeSpeed Northman: Yes, and anyone who comes here learns so much!
Serendipity Seraph does her best to sit on extropia’s face, er, I mean lap. 🙂
Soft Linden: SL is basically 3D internet with stronger identity and presence. I think trying to think of it that way clarifies a lot of thinking.
Extropia DaSilva: *Giggles* Later dear, later…
Khannea Suntzu: We are in an era where the only winning strategy is to work with viral replicators. Facebook is briefly in a window where it is a viral replicator. That can imposisbly last, unles it evolves. SL is absolutely NOT being a viral replicator. SL replicates not exponentially. This is unbaearable.
Zobeid Zuma: SL isn’t comparable to the internet, or even to the WWW. It’s too limited, and limiting, still.
Soft Linden: (I’d say 3D web, but it’s more like 3D gopher at this point)
Jack Arnica: because people feel for their avatars, its not like going into barclays with your avatar and paying your bills, though that COULD be, but people feel like the avatar is an extension of themselves
Luisa Bourgoin: would linear growth not be enough?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ahhh yes, Khannea. You are hitting the mark there!
LeAnn Artis: Soft, i think adding FB to my SL, would distract from my SL, however, adding a SL app would be great… but the AU addition to SL would benefit those who didnt want to completely integrate the two
Jack Arnica: in a way FB never can
JakeSpeed Northman: Soft is right, it is a much more immersive way to experience the internet
Lem Skall: Soft, the Internet grew very differently though, it started with very few and small purposes (email) and it added purposes gradually
Karlaee Dezno: the Internet and WWW are two very different things..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye… and well, the Internet wasn’t a single-company effort either
Lem Skall: that too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although Bill Gates tried very hard to do that 🙂
Karlaee Dezno: no.. it was a single government thing..
Lem Skall: not Bill, Al Gore
Khannea Suntzu: Linear growth is for encyclopedia brittanica and for churches. It will die and be displaced.
Serendipity Seraph: FB sucks. social networks need to be so much better. what if anything will integrating with it add here or will SL add to the space?
Jack Arnica: there are so may views on how the internet started….
Serendipity Seraph accepted your inventory offer.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not quite, Karlaee — “several governments” if by that you mean universities and research labs working across the world
Serendipity Seraph: it is the best suckage in the space right now..
Jack Arnica: no, FB has its place
Soft Linden: Fun thought experiment, maybe to think about for later: What would be the worst, most destructive way social networking could be added? Where are the landmines LL should know about?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think Jack’s right
Oceanis Decosta is Offline
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You can’t go “mainstream” with SL. It’s too demanding.
Karlaee Dezno: no… it did indeed start with the US MIl and UI
Luisa Bourgoin: we are addicted to “grow”. exponentially … there is some pathtrail leading to investment markets
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Soft — privacy issues! 😀
Lem Skall: actually, I recently started seeing FB as very interesting because of all the apps
Soft Linden: Big time agreement on that, Gwyn
Jack Arnica: if you talk to brits, they will say a brit started the internet
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Luisa, remember the dot-com bubble 😉 Exponential growth is very very hard to sustain.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jack: even if you ask non-brits 😉
Soft Linden: We had extended debates on whether to even enable shared media by default, over IP discovery concerns
Karlaee Dezno: brits started everything.. it keeps them happy 🙂
Lem Skall: you don’t really have to have friends in FB, you can just get info about all kinds of interests
Peer Infinity: “surprise! all of your chat logs ever are now searchable by google!”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Peer!
Soft Linden: We’re certainly not tripping over ourselves to surprise anyone by listing all friends using SL, like Pandora, etc do
Luisa Bourgoin: Soft: LL could blunder on privacy
Gwyneth Llewelyn knocks on wood
Extropia DaSilva: Peers have been, since forever.
Serendipity Seraph: fb is good for some things but very bad at others.
Extropia DaSilva: what is it good for, and what bad?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say that’s true of everything, Seren 😉
Jack Arnica: lol gwyneth….tim berners lee?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jack, that was the Web 😉
Lem Skall: he invented WWW
Khannea Suntzu: LL managers an unbearably complex system. It;s a miracle they aren’t sobbing themselves to sleep every night.
Flenser Juergens is Online
Soft Linden: I don’t think FB is special in any way, except for one: The ginormous database of existing connections. If that were available apart from FB, I think FB would be seen as another myspace.
Extropia DaSilva: If what FB is bad at, SL is good at and vice versa, would a marriage of the two cancel out the negatives and result in a better dual product?
Soft Linden: It’s so cute that you think we don’t sob ourselves to sleep every night.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Extie, FB is *excellent* as a distribution platform for simple MMOGs.
Serendipity Seraph: it is great for keeping some track of all your circle, for finding about new things through them. for finding people you lost track off for some sharing and group info, fan pages etc.
Karlaee Dezno: and is working on the Symantic Web.. if it pans out..
LeAnn Artis: I still think a very simple, SL app for FB would be best to test the waters before going huge, i’d like to see LL start small and build instead of full steaming and failing on this one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s bad at privacy… lol
Jack Arnica: lol okay point taken gwyneth
Khannea Suntzu: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LeAnn, I’d prefer it the other way round really.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: People are lazy when subscribing to new services.
Extropia DaSilva: Seren, that sounds like pretty much everything FB is designed for, anyway.
Serendipity Seraph: but its distussion format is lousy, it groups and fan pages too limited, no control over what from those if anything shows to your friends automatically
Lem Skall: FB is great to hear what happened lately on your favorite shows and what is scheduled next
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If they could just get a registration page at secondlife.com saying: “have Facebook/MySpace/Yahoo/Google? Click here and we’ll register you a SL account”
Jack Arnica: and there is no ability to go viral here
Karlaee Dezno: simply because FB was designed as a static platform.
Lem Skall: and what your favorite writers are up to
Serendipity Seraph: no general file sharing or html inclusion in comments and so on.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, Jack, that’s VERY true!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need “mass media” in SL.
Soft Linden: +1 on that, Gwyn. Registration-time dropoff is big. People don’t like giving away email addresses before they know the value proposition.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We only have the Message of The Day 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Soft
Extropia DaSilva: I found out about an automatic ball throwing machine that kept this little dachsund endlessely ammused. That was interesting…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: look up RPX, it’s so simple to integrate, Soft…
Khannea Suntzu: I reiterate that the issue here is market share and accessibility, and fact of the matter is that complexity is relative to intelligence. Simple product, homer simpson walks in. Complex product, Only Lisa walks in.
Soft Linden: Someone blogged about getting people as deep into the experience as possible before ever hinting payment was part of the experience. I think the exact same is true of identity.
Lem Skall: FB is good at selecting Betty White for SNL
Soft Linden: RPX is the multi-social network authentication front end?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alas, Khannea. You’re SO right. It’s snobby of us, but yes, we’re an elite, and SL is for this elite…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like that idea, Soft 🙂
Jack Arnica: soft, you are forgetting the fundamental principle that its SECOND life
Lem Skall: I am an elite but I don’t want to be
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes on RPX
Khannea Suntzu: Sad, I’d love to lay the dumb too.
Extropia DaSilva: What do you mean, Jack?
Soft Linden: I don’t know how much most people read into the name. Most seem to think it’s an insurance company, a church or a cult based on just that much.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: http://www.janrain.com/ (formerly RPX)
Lem Skall: Soft, all of the above
Jack Arnica: why would people want to make this an extension of their real lives, when actually they can do anything here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Soft Linden: Lem: Zing!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Church of Second Life!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Salvation through Pixellation!
Luisa Bourgoin: Cult of Ruth Eternal
Khannea Suntzu: Hmmm LifeVerse… Life 2.0… hmmmm GVerse?
Soft Linden: I’m mad. The Church of Rosedale had service this Sunday, and I missed it because I screwed up the timezone on my reminder
Jack Arnica: who looks like their avi?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahahaahaha
LeAnn Artis: I still stand by the fact that i dont want to send the same updates to my grandma that i do to my SL friends…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, LeAnn
Extropia DaSilva: Since you can do anything, why not use Sl to extend your 1st life, if that is what suits you best?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Facebook doesn’t get that right
Soft Linden: On my alt, I had it automatically tweeting my location any time I stayed 30 minutes+ anywhere in SL. I found it changed how I used SL quite a bit.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Here, well, we can send “updates” to different groups…
Khannea Suntzu: When oh when, hear me o yae high Linden Lords on Olympus, when can I run a plugin in Google Earth and walk my avatars through modelled streets?
Jack Arnica: look, i dont mind those that want SL to be an extension of their first life….good luck to them!
Lem Skall: Extie, some day you will extend the digital persona to a third life
Luisa Bourgoin: wouldnt a 100% business focused network just consist of virtual chatroom connecting webcams and phone lines?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers* @ Khannea
Soft Linden: Not in a good way. Same way I felt less comfortable creating weird playlists on Pandora once they added gratuitous sharing.
Serendipity Seraph: speaking of SL groups, when is group chat going to work correctly and dependably?
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LeAnn Artis: in SL you can do whatever you want, its not that way with RL/FB so the two should be limited from each other
Jack Arnica: but i come here to explore!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seren: when it gets ported to XMPP 😉
LeAnn Artis: example i dont want my boss to know i’m a vampire sometimes onine…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: right, LeAnn!
Khannea Suntzu: Camarilla scum
Soft Linden: Khannea – not soon. But group issues are very much in the reduced set of things we’re going to focus on
Jack Arnica: exactly!
Extropia DaSilva: Lem, since the simulation argument leads me to believe that RL is itself a simulation, I guess this IS third Life already, strictly speaking;)
Lem Skall: LeAnn, not true, you can’t gamble, you can’t bank, you can’t child play, you can’t show a nipple just anywhere
Luisa Bourgoin: Seren … seemingly its more braggin about NOT WORKING inside the oldbie groups … the newbies chat away happily
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles @ Extie
Armaton Guardian: I don’t see how you can compare FB & SL, even in terms of “marketing” because they are so different, SL having so many more dimensions of experience.
LeAnn Artis: Lem, this is the point, integrating would even more so limit my SL, and its already been done so many times
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh that’s an interesting remark, Luisa!!
Jack Arnica: Soft i know the management thinks this is where the cash is
Lem Skall: here?
Serendipity Seraph: @luisa : huh?
Luisa Bourgoin: which? Lem on nipples?
Lem Skall: ah THAT
Jack Arnica: its such a mistake
Extropia DaSilva: what is?
Khannea Suntzu: Yah well my manager has said that my association with SL would be bad for my record sales. Maybe if my latest hit, Alehandro sells good we’ll reconsider that.
Soft Linden: I’m not even clear on the goals of social networking – that’s how far I am removed from that work. Hopefully with the tighter organization, left hand spends less time guessing about right hand’s goals
Jack Arnica: lets face it we have all been in sex sims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: really, Khannea?!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow
Jack Arnica: at least i hope we have
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear hear, Soft 🙂
Serendipity Seraph: reading back I don’t see yet what this integration is actually to consist of except logins and tieds to FB identity for those that want them
Lem Skall: Jack, by mistake, by mistake
Luisa Bourgoin: we wander arround
Soft Linden: When I think SL-affiliated celebrities, I think Felicia Day and Drew Carey. Not quite rockstar.
Extropia DaSilva: I am not allowed in sex sims. The pimps complain that their girls get no business, what with all eyes on me and my red-hot body…
Jack Arnica: do we really want that teleport history being available to our FB friends and employers?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well… you could have crazy things…. groups becoming timelines on Facebook automatically, for instance, Seren
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or what Jack said
Lem Skall: Jack, your employer already has your web surfing history
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Gwyneth Llewelyn acceped Sultry Sexy Pose from Extropia Facebook”. 25675 Likes
Luisa Bourgoin: privacy! sure way to blunder, give it a go
Khannea Suntzu: Yah I get that too, for a slightly different reason Trophy. About 8-12 minutes after I enter, they all start logging like flies dropping. But the recurrence is good!
Extropia DaSilva: You would like them, too;)
Soft Linden: I’m confident of this much – TP timelines, Xstreet purchases, etc would never go onto FB without careful scrutiny to blunder-proof the thing. And I haven’t heard anything like that proposed.
Extropia DaSilva: what HAVE you heard proposed?
Luisa Bourgoin listens
Soft Linden: I think I’d barricade the doors of the Battery office myself if that were on the table
Lem Skall: yeah, soft, out with it
Khannea Suntzu: He said never
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Jack Arnica: sorry but lets just keep it separate
Extropia DaSilva: Must have heard something…
Soft Linden: I think I’d get myself in hot water laying out what little I do know.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: See, if this chat *was* going out on FB this moment…
Soft Linden: It’s mostly discussion right now, and this is the kind of thing where people could end up angrily reacting for a year to something that gets dropped after just being talked about for 10 minutes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Lem Skall: does my name ever come up? ;P
Khannea Suntzu: Welll there you have it. Sounds like dragging a wet matress up a spiral staircase.
Extropia DaSilva: Someone rez a rack and hot pokers! We shall get this out of Soft by hook or by crook!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
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Gwyneth Llewelyn disapproves of torturing furries!
Soft Linden: This is very much a Lem Skall-focussed technology, yes.
Lem Skall: alright!!!!
Jack Arnica: youll never get away!
LeAnn Artis: As a higher level manager i think i could never implement myself on FB to SL… it would never be an option for me, i come to SL to escape that life, not extend it…
Zobeid Zuma: Please tell us somebody is looking at redoing inventory management. . .
Soft Linden: Not about integrating with FB/Twitter/etc in general. Just your account.
Serendipity Seraph: chat integration with wave would be great. not so much on FB where FB chat is 1-1 mostly and rather annoying
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… if we have linked SL/FB accounts…. I hope we can get an option on the Snapshot to post pictures directly to Facebook 😉
Khannea Suntzu: I’d love icon based Inventory management. Hmmmmm hey orange bikini, lets do that.
Lem Skall: FB is rather 1:n as opposed to n:n
Jack Arnica: and lets not forget that FB in itself is something that i would never let my manager into
Extropia DaSilva: But I am just about as immersionist as you can get. Yet I use FB. It extends the life I have created here, without needing to include my primary’s life as well.
Luisa Bourgoin: inventory sorting and views … addd different views, like fishbowl
Serendipity Seraph: I have my on FB identiy and my primary another.
Khannea Suntzu: Idea 72 soft
Soft Linden: Yeah. FB/Twitter/whatever picture sharing has been talked about in the past. I think that would be huge, even independent of any other effort.
Jack Arnica: so i could go to a conference in SL
Luisa Bourgoin: fishbowl view … thumbnails … tags
Jack Arnica: but only my friends, ever get into FB
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Khannea Suntzu: PURRRRR
Soft Linden: So, privacy would be the big thing to screw up? Anything else?
Luisa Bourgoin: don’t give him tips! the Lindens will implement everything!!1
Jack Arnica: fantasies?
Serendipity Seraph: what about auto mochinma effects to outside viewers? or text only as in the IRC bridge?
Soft Linden: Both from broadcasting SL usage, and from revealing peers’ account names
Lem Skall: what privacy are we talking about though? RL or SL? so as long as RL and SL are not linked, what is the issue?
Serendipity Seraph: being able to be as anon as you wish here as dependably as today I imagine
Extropia DaSilva: Hmmm…Well maybe the social network spreads and amplifies the message ‘SL is laggy and a pointless game’ and brings about its demise sooner than would otherwise be the case?
Jack Arnica: you can be sure there are ppl right now living out fantasies they never knew they had
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Lem Skall: personally I don’t care whatever gets said about my SL life as long as it is not linked to RL
Zobeid Zuma: Good point, Extie. . . Maybe fixing the crashes and glitches and the UI should take a higher priority.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: very very good point!
Luisa Bourgoin: difficult! on an ALT, 100 percent linking to outher world could be required … its really getting two concept under one hood
Extropia DaSilva: You are right Jack. Studies show people make up personaes and often do not even realise they are doing it.
Serendipity Seraph: most games have a point? does life have a point? it is “second life” not “life game” after all.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh “does life have a point?” 🙂
Zobeid Zuma: But then, I thought those things should have been done before. . . voice. . . and before sculpties. . . and before flexies. . . and before every other feature that’s been added over the last six years.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s for another Thinkers discussion 😀
Jack Arnica: I really think, soft, that SL has this unique advantage
Luisa Bourgoin: Extie, we could spread against that!
Soft Linden: I think Twitter is the only social site on the planet where its users spend more time praising than criticizing it.
Khannea Suntzu: *yawn* “This ‘telephone’ has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us.”
— Western Union internal memo, 1876.
Extropia DaSilva: I have it on authority from Marvin the android that, no, life does not have any point to it.
Lem Skall: Seren, but life just is, you can only drop out, but to join something else it does need to have a point
Jack Arnica: people are loyal to you because of it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The 4 on 42 is pointy!
Jack Arnica: and yet
Soft Linden: So the lesson is – if we add social networking, it needs to be 140 chars or fewer
Jack Arnica: and yet
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Soft!
Jack Arnica: you go after something else
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Gwyneth Llewelyn: but you’re actually right on Twitter,. Even when it crashes, people don’t seem to mind much
Serendipity Seraph: SL just is.. it is like life in that it has whatever meaning you bring to it. no more and no less.
Khannea Suntzu: *yawn* “The wireless music box has no imaginable commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?”
— David Sarnoff’s associates in response to his urgings for investment in the radio in the 1920s.
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Serendipity Seraph: what needs to be 140 characters or fewer and why, soft?
Soft Linden: And yeah, I agree that the immersive aspect of SL is rare, and needs to be protected.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh I think it’s time I do a Facebook parody…
Luisa Bourgoin: Twitter cant be criticised because of its relevance . .. or lack of it
Soft Linden: Serendipity – previous comment, that Twitter’s the only social networking site where its users spend more time praising it than criticizing it
Gwyneth Llewelyn loves Facebook parodies
Jack Arnica: like you could be the most amazing thing
Lem Skall: what is the immersive aspect? the identity or the 3d presence?
Serendipity Seraph hate twitter.
Extropia DaSilva: Hope it goes better than your last April fool, Gwyn;)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope so too!
Lem Skall: but that was the most read post on Gwyn’s blog
Soft Linden: I adore Twitter. It’s fairly bluster-proof. Not much room to muddy the waters to make folks think they’re deep.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh — actually, no, Lem 😀
Lem Skall: the mostr commented?
Jack Arnica: can we have a vote now? who would prefer no lag vs being able to link their avi to twitter?
Soft Linden: Twitter’s great for seeding ideas that get developed elsewhere
LeAnn Artis: twitter is simple. thats the key. SL need to stay simple…
Extropia DaSilva: one minute left folks. BTW the transcript for last week’s discussion is available at extropiadasilva.wordpress.com as will this discussion, just as soon as I can be bothered to post it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jack: I vote for no lag! 😀
Serendipity Seraph: no lag is an option without full reachitecture at least?
Jack Arnica: 2-0
Lem Skall: no lag is utopian, you can only reduce it
Extropia DaSilva: No lag!
Karlaee Dezno: no lag
Jack Arnica: smiles
Extropia DaSilva: OK my time is up!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, if you can make everything in SL take less than 0.2 seconds to accomplish, you’ll experience it as “no lag”
Soft Linden: I’d love to see a whole Thinkers discussion on “what is lag” – seems like every other person has a different definition, be it client side render pauses, TP halting, low framerates, etc.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that would be a lovely idea!!!
Soft Linden: In my mind, framerate and TP pauses are the big experience killers.
Extropia DaSilva: NEXT WEEK is CLIMATE CHANGE AND PRIORITIES: Many experts say that climate change is the greatest challenge facing humankind, and as such it should be our most pressing concern.
But is this true, or are there other problems on the horizon that deserve more attention?